Iran: U.S. is world's main sponsor of terrorism

[Col. Flagg]

http://presstv.com/detail.aspx?id=13803 ... =351020101

Iran's Foreign Ministry spokesman says the US is the main sponsor of terrorism and that it tries to cover up this fact by leveling accusations against other countries.

The US State Department in its annual report released on Aug. 5, 2010 accused Iran of supporting terrorism.

Ramin Mehmanparast on Monday rejected the State Department report and said, "Examples of US actions show that this country has been the biggest sponsor of terrorism over the past three decades but by leveling baseless accusations against other states it attempts to cover up its own actions.”

He went on to stress that leveling such biased accusations against other countries could negatively affect international trust, which is essential to global security and stability.

Mehmanparast said that while Iran tries to cooperate with the international community on fighting terrorism “Western countries and the US have a double standard approach” towards it and allow terrorist to carry out their activities on their soil.

The Iranian foreign ministry spokesman added that US military presence in Afghanistan has resulted in the increase of narcotics production which is used to fund terrorism and extremism.

Not to mention Wall Street.

Anyone disagree? IMHO, this is akin to the pot calling the kettle black.

[Jason]

Anyone disagree? IMHO, this is akin to the pot calling the kettle black.

What do you mean?

[Col. Flagg]

Anyone disagree? IMHO, this is akin to the pot calling the kettle black.

What do you mean?

I just meant that Iran is as big a sponsor of terrorism as the U.S. is.

[Jason]

Anyone disagree? IMHO, this is akin to the pot calling the kettle black.

What do you mean?

I just meant that Iran is as big a sponsor of terrorism as the U.S. is.

Any evidence of that???

[Col. Flagg]

Any evidence of that???

Of Iran sponsoring terrorism or the U.S.?

[Rensai]

Anyone disagree? IMHO, this is akin to the pot calling the kettle black.

What do you mean?

I just meant that Iran is as big a sponsor of terrorism as the U.S. is.

Iran does sponsor Terror, but I would not say they are as big as the US. Even if they put their entire government budget into it, it wouldn't hold a candle to the budget we've got for it.

[BroJones]

Does Iran pre-emptively invade oil-rich countries, killing the civilians there by the tens of thousands?

Does Iran threaten other countries with nuclear bombs they possess?

Does Iran countenance torture? Abu Ghraib? secret prisons for "extraordinary rendition" and torture (or the equivalent)?

I am saddened by the actions of my country, and frankly, by the apparent inaction by many fellow citizens in speaking out about what is going on.

[Rensai]

Does Iran pre-emptively invade oil-rich countries, killing the civilians there by the tens of thousands?

Does Iran threaten other countries with nuclear bombs they possess?

Does Iran countenance torture? Abu Ghraib? secret prisons for "extraordinary rendition" and torture (or the equivalent)?

I am saddened by the actions of my country, and frankly, by the apparent inaction by many fellow citizens in speaking out about what is going on.

Good points Doc. It occurs to me, in a sense, you can also lay much of Iran's terror at our door anyway. Historical record shows that the CIA helped put the current Iranian government into power when they helped overthrow Mossadegh. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mossadegh

We've been in the terror business far longer, on a far larger scale than Iran.

I guess this isn't the pot calling the kettle black... more like the tarnished silver calling the kettle black.

[Jason]

Any evidence of that???

Of Iran sponsoring terrorism or the U.S.?

Iran even coming close to the US.....

Iran has difficulty putting gas in the tanks of its citizens cars.....let alone sparking world wide terror....

[Jason]

Does Iran pre-emptively invade oil-rich countries, killing the civilians there by the tens of thousands?

Does Iran threaten other countries with nuclear bombs they possess?

Does Iran countenance torture? Abu Ghraib? secret prisons for "extraordinary rendition" and torture (or the equivalent)?

I am saddened by the actions of my country, and frankly, by the apparent inaction by many fellow citizens in speaking out about what is going on.

Good points Doc. It occurs to me, in a sense, you can also lay much of Iran's terror at our door anyway. Historical record shows that the CIA helped put the current Iranian government into power when they helped overthrow Mossadegh. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mossadegh

We've been in the terror business far longer, on a far larger scale than Iran.

I guess this isn't the pot calling the kettle black... more like the tarnished silver calling the kettle black.

Called Operation AJAX....

[Mosby]

Was going to post...........but Dr.Jones, Jason, and Rensai have said everything that I was going to say.

I hate to say it, but Mehmanparast is correct in his statement(s)

[Col. Flagg]

Does Iran pre-emptively invade oil-rich countries, killing the civilians there by the tens of thousands?

Does Iran threaten other countries with nuclear bombs they possess?

Does Iran countenance torture? Abu Ghraib? secret prisons for "extraordinary rendition" and torture (or the equivalent)?

I am saddened by the actions of my country, and frankly, by the apparent inaction by many fellow citizens in speaking out about what is going on.

I realize that the U.S. is and has been engaging in terror ops and covert ops for a long, long time and has a budget that dwarfs Iran's, but Iran also sponsors terror, albeit on a much smaller scale. I echo your last sentence Steve... WHERE IN THE HECK IS THE OUTRAGE OVER WHAT IS GOING ON... ARE WE THAT IGNORANT AND APTHETIC??? If so... we are pathetic and deserve the cleansing and destruction that is coming.

[Col. Flagg]

Any evidence of that???

Of Iran sponsoring terrorism or the U.S.?

Iran even coming close to the US.....

Iran has difficulty putting gas in the tanks of its citizens cars.....let alone sparking world wide terror....

I know, but Iran still sponsors terror. Maybe the question should be which 1st-2nd world nation doesn't engage in covert ops?

[Jason]

Of Iran sponsoring terrorism or the U.S.?

Iran even coming close to the US.....

Iran has difficulty putting gas in the tanks of its citizens cars.....let alone sparking world wide terror....

I know, but Iran still sponsors terror. Maybe the question should be which 1st-2nd world nation doesn't engage in covert ops?

Exactly.....and 99% of Iran's is all hype put out by US media interests.

[leeuniverse]

Does Iran pre-emptively invade oil-rich countries, killing the civilians there by the tens of thousands?

Is that Kinda like Vietnam and Korea and Somalia, etc. etc.??? What "oil" did those country's have?
What Oil does Afghanistan have??? Are you really so ignorant that you don't understand that Iraq was a "front" against fanatical Islam and Iran? Are you really so ignorant that you think it was about "oil"??? Tell us, what percentage of oil do we actually get from Iraq? We get 10% of it's oil buddy!

Further, you bear more false witness. While in war innocents do die, it IS NOT the U.S. as you say that is killing civilians, it's Fanatical Islam. Get your FACTS strait!

Does Iran threaten other countries with nuclear bombs they possess?

Are you trying to tell us that when they DO get Nukes that they have no intention of not only "threatening" their use against both Israel and the U.S., but will almost 100% at some point actually use them??? Are you not aware of their constant threats against Israel and even the U.S., their threats that they WILL destroy Israel, wiping them off the map? Are you so ignorant that you are not aware of their intentions to cause Armageddon, overrunning the earth with Islam and bring back their Messiah??? And you want to be all pissy about "us" having nukes??? Are you aware that Hitler was only months away from HIS OWN Nuke?? Do you even care the amount of life that would have been lost on both sides in Japan if Nukes hadn't been used, because they wouldn't have given up?

Does Iran countenance torture? Abu Ghraib? secret prisons for "extraordinary rendition" and torture (or the equivalent)?

You ever heard of bearing false witness??? You are no different than anti-mormons and other liberals, who take a LITTLE Truth and then use it to tell great lies. Since when does one instance of soldiers "embarrassing" prisoners, and a couple other times doing some water boarding on a couple of high value targets a few times in order to get info which they did, which DID in fact save American and other innocent lives, somehow translate into "standard practice" by America, especially when know "actual" harm occurred, they were simply scared briefly??? You are no different than anti-mormons who claim that because Joseph was sealed to other women specifically 3 who were 18 and under that such made him a pedophile and a false prophet, and mormonism nothing but from the Devil. Where did you learn to be a scholar??? You're a joke!

I am saddened by the actions of my country, and frankly, by the apparent inaction by many fellow citizens in speaking out about what is going on.

And I'm saddened by liberals like you in this country who caused more death in Vietnam during the war rather than winning the war and getting it over with, when we were only months away from their surrender, leaving prematurely and causing over 2 Million death in it's after math. And I'm tired of you liberals doing the same thing today in relation to Iraq, just leaving them to their own devices to the wolves without leaving a support force to help rebuild like was done in Japan, Germany, and South Korea. You people think you love life, but you don't. You willingly allow evil to flourish, and foolishly think leaving it alone will bring peace and joy. Don't you know that if you leave a hornets nest alone, it will grow and take over, and yes, when you try to kill them they DO get mad and try to fight back, but if you persevere, you can kill the nest???

You should be speaking out FOR our country, not misrepresenting the truth by taking some and then LYING about what we are actually doing. You are a traitor and a terrible mormon! For you say and believe the same malarkey that Iran and Fanatical Islam believes about America! SHAME ON YOU!

And shame on the rest of you willingly following this corruption and immorality and lack of character and patriotism.
If we make mistakes then FINE, work to correct them..... But what you people do and believe is throwing the baby out with the bath water, and 100 times over misrepresenting of the ACTUAL facts and truth. That is not HONOR, that is not morality!

This is not the LDS Freedom Forum, it's the LDS nutjob leftist forum with only a dash of conservatism and libertarianism. Just a buch of nutballs, 9/11 was an inside job, America is evil, America Tortures, Bush is Hitler, Code Pinko war haters, etc. etc. Good HEAVENS!!! You people aren't Mormonism.... You are pretenders!

[Rensai]

Does Iran pre-emptively invade oil-rich countries, killing the civilians there by the tens of thousands?

Is that Kinda like Vietnam and Korea and Somalia, etc. etc.??? What "oil" did those country's have?
What Oil does Afghanistan have??? Are you really so ignorant that you don't understand that Iraq was a "front" against fanatical Islam and Iran? Are you really so ignorant that you think it was about "oil"??? Tell us, what percentage of oil do we actually get from Iraq? We get 10% of it's oil buddy!

Further, you bear more false witness. While in war innocents do die, it IS NOT the U.S. as you say that is killing civilians, it's Fanatical Islam. Get your FACTS strait!

Does Iran threaten other countries with nuclear bombs they possess?

Are you trying to tell us that when they DO get Nukes that they have no intention of not only "threatening" their use against both Israel and the U.S., but will almost 100% at some point actually use them??? Are you not aware of their constant threats against Israel and even the U.S., their threats that they WILL destroy Israel, wiping them off the map? Are you so ignorant that you are not aware of their intentions to cause Armageddon, overrunning the earth with Islam and bring back their Messiah??? And you want to be all pissy about "us" having nukes??? Are you aware that Hitler was only months away from HIS OWN Nuke?? Do you even care the amount of life that would have been lost on both sides in Japan if Nukes hadn't been used, because they wouldn't have given up?

Does Iran countenance torture? Abu Ghraib? secret prisons for "extraordinary rendition" and torture (or the equivalent)?

You ever heard of bearing false witness??? You are no different than anti-mormons and other liberals, who take a LITTLE Truth and then use it to tell great lies. Since when does one instance of soldiers "embarrassing" prisoners, and a couple other times doing some water boarding on a couple of high value targets a few times in order to get info which they did, which DID in fact save American and other innocent lives, somehow translate into "standard practice" by America, especially when know "actual" harm occurred, they were simply scared briefly??? You are no different than anti-mormons who claim that because Joseph was sealed to other women specifically 3 who were 18 and under that such made him a pedophile and a false prophet, and mormonism nothing but from the Devil. Where did you learn to be a scholar??? You're a joke!

I am saddened by the actions of my country, and frankly, by the apparent inaction by many fellow citizens in speaking out about what is going on.

And I'm saddened by liberals like you in this country who caused more death in Vietnam during the war rather than winning the war and getting it over with, when we were only months away from their surrender, leaving prematurely and causing over 2 Million death in it's after math. And I'm tired of you liberals doing the same thing today in relation to Iraq, just leaving them to their own devices to the wolves without leaving a support force to help rebuild like was done in Japan, Germany, and South Korea. You people think you love life, but you don't. You willingly allow evil to flourish, and foolishly think leaving it alone will bring peace and joy. Don't you know that if you leave a hornets nest alone, it will grow and take over, and yes, when you try to kill them they DO get mad and try to fight back, but if you persevere, you can kill the nest???

You should be speaking out FOR our country, not misrepresenting the truth by taking some and then LYING about what we are actually doing. You are a traitor and a terrible mormon! For you say and believe the same malarkey that Iran and Fanatical Islam believes about America! SHAME ON YOU!

And shame on the rest of you willingly following this corruption and immorality and lack of character and patriotism.
If we make mistakes then FINE, work to correct them..... But what you people do and believe is throwing the baby out with the bath water, and 100 times over misrepresenting of the ACTUAL facts and truth. That is not HONOR, that is not morality!

This is not the LDS Freedom Forum, it's the LDS nutjob leftist forum with only a dash of conservatism and libertarianism. Just a buch of nutballs, 9/11 was an inside job, America is evil, America Tortures, Bush is Hitler, Code Pinko war haters, etc. etc. Good HEAVENS!!! You people aren't Mormonism.... You are pretenders!

Lee, you don't know what you're talking about or who you are talking to. Maybe you should get your facts straight before you rant. Further, do you think your post is inline with the forum rules at all?? For the first time I am seriously tempted to put someone on this forum on my ignore list. Your post is disgusting and you certainly do no credit to your cause.

Here are the rules again:

This website exists to provide a forum for liberty-minded individuals to associate and discuss Liberty in light of the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ.

By participating on ldsfreedomforum.com, you agree to abide by the standards of the forum as posted here.

All who can abide by these standards are welcome on the forum, Latter-day Saints and non-members alike.

Discussion on this forum should be respectful, edifying, and should reflect honorably on our responsibility as stewards of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

As disciples of Christ, may we reflect His example. May we take upon ourselves His name and stand as witnesses of Him at all times and in all places.

Let us stand with Captain Moroni and others in proclaiming Liberty. "In memory of our God, our religion, and freedom, and our peace, our wives, and our children."

"Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is Liberty" (2 Cor. 3: 17)

The Forum Administrator and/or Moderators may warn and/or banish users who demonstrate that they are unwilling or unable to maintain the standards of the forum.

[leeuniverse]

Yes, I know exactly "who" I'm talking too, and know everything about him. They guy has not the character to be your all's "god".

If he's going to post lies and immoral things, I'm going to correct him and condemn him for it.
As to the rules, get over yourselves. I haven't said anything over the line, and am perfectly allowed to have a negative opinion of a PUBLIC figure, which he IS.

I don't tolerate bearing false witness from anti-mormons, and I'm certainly not going to tolerate it from a so-called mormon who is no different than Harry Reid in ideology and lack of character. Since I don't see you all saying kind words about Harry Reid, you have no right to condemn me for saying unkind things for the immoral things ex professor Jones states. So, stop with the double standards.

You should be condemning him for his direct lies and misrepresentations of others, rather than me for calling him on it and condemning him for it. Get your priorities straight!

[Rensai]

Yes, I know exactly "who" I'm talking too, and know everything about him. They guy has not the character to be your all's "god".

If he's going to post lies and immoral things, I'm going to correct him and condemn him for it.
As to the rules, get over yourselves. I haven't said anything over the line, and am perfectly allowed to have a negative opinion of a PUBLIC figure, which he IS.

I don't tolerate bearing false witness from anti-mormons, and I'm certainly not going to tolerate it from a so-called mormon who is no different than Harry Reid in ideology and lack of character. Since I don't see you all saying kind words about Harry Reid, you have no right to condemn me for saying unkind things for the immoral things ex professor Jones states. So, stop with the double standards.

You should be condemning him for his direct lies and misrepresentations of others, rather than me for calling him on it and condemning him for it. Get your priorities straight!

Dr. Jones is a great man who stands for truth. He does not post lies. You slander him, call him names, make false accusations and dare speak of double standards?? The only thing your rabid attacks on him prove is that your words have no worth and are a waste of time to read.

[fps.sledge]

Well the term "Iran sponsors terrorism" or even "u.s. sponsors terrorism" is a completely loaded statement. In addition, it's merely a philosophy rather than a fact.

This requires the definition of terrorism to be understood. My understanding of terrorism is essentially "budget warfare". Al-qaeda has been labeled as a terrorist organization. They would fit under my definition of terrorism. They effectively commited an act of war against United States citizens with a very low cost. Compare this with the japanese when they bombed pearl harbor. That is not an example of cost effective warfare.

In both cases, there is a cause behind the acts of war. So how can one "sponsor" terrorism? Support them? Well yes, I would support budget warfare. If the cause of war was just. We may as well save money if we can. Why spend $1 mil on a bomb when we can kill someone with a $1 bullet, then the cost of paying for the shooter.

Perhaps the claim that Iran has made is that we support "Al-qaeda" or something. I wouldn't know much about this.

If the definition of terror is "to make a certain group of individuals or a single individual afraid of the a certain govt" then the U.S. govt and the supporters are guilty of terrorism. There are basically no laws to follow when it comes to international relations. There may be laws for certain countries, but there is no govt above the earth which overseas and regulates the interactions of different govts. It's a system of anarchy. The biggest guns win. The pact with the most participants win. If I were Iran right now, I would be terrified of the U.S., and it's allies. Perhaps that would be a demonstration of an act of terrorism by the United States. Like I said, it depends on your definition.

[Toto]

Why are you avoiding the question Col.? Without citing evidence of Iranian sponsored terrorism the argument is weak, as Dr. Jones pointed out. You’re not buying all that hooey from the MSN are you?

But I wanted to point out that while the “supposed” government of the U.S. is indeed sponsoring terrorism at home and abroad (via the Crooks In Action), it should be CLEARLY understood that it is NOT the government of the united states of America that is raising all this havoc. Somebody else is doing it. (give you three guesses)

The United States of America does not, at present, even have a government under the contract with the People, the Constitution of the United States of America. Colin Powell said something was going to happen on the 21st and 22nd of January and we don’t even know what it is, and when Obama was put in office it was tough to find even one individual who was aware of the coup that took place. (I did find one) The lawful government of the United States of America was taken over, lock, stock, and barrel. Fascism in its finest hour!

I am patiently waiting for the day when the People WAKE UP TO THEIR AWFUL SITUATION and decide it is time to form a new government, as the Declaration of Independence suggests. (And it’s not Mitt Romney and his lawyers!) Unfortunately, I have lost faith that the American People will rise to the occasion, at least not until the economy collapses and it hits them squarely in the pocket book, at which time they won’t have the resources left to do anything about it!

It is hard for me to know what I know and try to tell others, only to find they have walls built in front of them. They actually LIKE being slaves! Time and time again I have watched the critical thinking process shut down just talking about the Federal Reserve! But it’s MUCH bigger than that. It has gone way past the point where we are being SHOVED into the New World Order. IT’S BEING CRAMMED DOWN OUR THROATS right now!

But hardly anyone seems to notice. Hardly anyone seems to care. And worse, hardly ANYONE knows what to do about it! Even on this forum when I bring up the idea of or returning to honest weights and measures the discussion dead ends. If we abolish the Fed, how is anybody going to get a good loan?!? And the thought of forming a new government, as the Declaration of Independence suggests, produces NO fruit on this discussion; only arguments and personal agendas seem dominant.

It’s getting REAL ugly REAL FAST and I don’t know if we can stop this train now, it has so much momentum. The combinations don’t care we’re onto their game, they think they have already won! And perhaps they have. Storing food isn’t the solution. Neither is diversifying into steel and lead. They have control of the government, the money supply, the food supply, and nuclear weapons, and they are using them!

The Hopi Elders said when things speed up, it’s time to slow down, but anything the Hopi have said is quickly shot down on this forum, correct as the prophesy may be. Yet here we all are, being happy idiots in the struggle for the “legal tender” (Jackson Brown), being shoved around from side to side in a bubble, never knowing who is running this little horse and pony show, or who is pulling the strings. You don’t have to the President of the Church to be a prophet. Not by definition of the word; I’m not using the word in the religious sense.

The war in heaven continues in the current situation and WE ARE LOSING THE WAR because we don’t know the enemy and the tactics being used. Is anyone here praying for George Soros? You ought to be! He has NO idea who he is working for, but he sure has a strangle hold on our agency!

I haven’t found a way to break the cycle myself, but I still tell everybody I can find. The vast majority are stuck in Babylon. (confusion)

[leeuniverse]

Yes, I know exactly "who" I'm talking too, and know everything about him. They guy has not the character to be your all's "god".

If he's going to post lies and immoral things, I'm going to correct him and condemn him for it.
As to the rules, get over yourselves. I haven't said anything over the line, and am perfectly allowed to have a negative opinion of a PUBLIC figure, which he IS.

I don't tolerate bearing false witness from anti-mormons, and I'm certainly not going to tolerate it from a so-called mormon who is no different than Harry Reid in ideology and lack of character. Since I don't see you all saying kind words about Harry Reid, you have no right to condemn me for saying unkind things for the immoral things ex professor Jones states. So, stop with the double standards.

You should be condemning him for his direct lies and misrepresentations of others, rather than me for calling him on it and condemning him for it. Get your priorities straight!

Dr. Jones is a great man who stands for truth. He does not post lies. You slander him, call him names, make false accusations and dare speak of double standards?? The only thing your rabid attacks on him prove is that your words have no worth and are a waste of time to read.

Why don't you actually demonstrate ANYTHING I said about what he said which is actually false?
He stated lies and misrepresentations, and I corrected him on it.
Do you all even care that he's saying the same things Liberals, North Korea, Fanatical Islam, Hugo Chavez, Noam Chompsky, Senn Penn, Oliver Stone, Michael Moore, etc. etc. state? Man you people are nut balls.

[Toto]

I’m adding leeuniverse to my prayer list, along with George Soros.

[fps.sledge]

Man you people are nut balls.

dude, a little more respect. please

[LittleLion]

I don't think anyone was trying to say immoral or slanderous things about this country. This country still remains the land of promise and still has the best people on this planet in it. The trouble comes when people confuse the "country", and the good men and women that have died for her, with the corrupt and heinous leaders that have led us to the point we are at right now. I have not heard one person badmouth this country leeuniverse just its leadership.

There is a ton of evidence that since around the time of Andrew Jackson this country has had corrupt, immoral and heinous leadership that has also corrupted us as constituents to it. We have been lied to and been slowly led down the path of least resistance straight to oblivion. Our money system makes us slaves, our laws permit among other things:

millions to be murdered before they are even born
take the ability to actually own land away from us
lie about the reasons to steal large chunks of a persons fruits of their labor and which according to the Grace report pays for nothing but the thieves interest
make 100's of 1000's of codes, statues, regulations, acts and other so called legislation that are in direct contravention of the constitution
make people die for supposed patriotic reasons when the real reasons for all wars in this dispensation are far from what we are taught
large portions of the leadership positions in Washington go to people that are members of organizations who's goals are completely contrary to what America stands for
let our security/spy organizations overthrow democratically elected governments around the world
lets the president of the US put out hits on US citizens with no actual proof of wrong doing
lets law enforcement/homeland security take you from your home, no courts convened, no judge contacted, your loved ones having no recourse or right to know what happened to you, to be placed in a secret prison, to be held indefinitely with no charges filed

There are many many more but you get the idea. All of these are readily researched and available and have nothing to do with leftist nutjobs.

Does anyone really think that when Nephi was talking about our awful situation he was talking about a country that still worked for the people? If our legislators did not make laws that circumvented the constitution, if our courts still followed the constitution, if we still had the rights and liberties that the constitution gave us we would not be in an awful situation.

leeuniverse I am so sorry but you are in dire need of the truth. Almost everything you spewed to Dr Jones was something you heard on CNN/Fox or someone paid by the government and nothing at all to do with truth. Why do you think there are more servicemen committing suicide at a rate that surpasses all the previous wars combined? Because we are doing the right thing?

Do some real research because the truth is out there, all you have to do is open your mind to it. Because your mind is closed at this point. Once you get past your cognitive dissonance you will start really seeing..... It was so very hard for me but when I finally started seeing I was actually sick for a few days. It is hard to take when things you are taught all your life turn out to be lies. But as the saying goes, the truth will set you free. Instead of calling people names do some research. I will pray for you to find the truth.

[BroJones]

Well said, LittleLion. Now a few post-midnight responses to Mr. LeeUniv -- as on the morrow I will be traveling home, my daughter just having married in the Wash DC Temple last Saturday.

Does Iran pre-emptively invade oil-rich countries, killing the civilians there by the tens of thousands?

Is that Kinda like Vietnam and Korea and Somalia, etc. etc.??? What "oil" did those country's have?
What Oil does Afghanistan have??? Are you really so ignorant that you don't understand that Iraq was a "front" against fanatical Islam and Iran? Are you really so ignorant that you think it was about "oil"??? Tell us, what percentage of oil do we actually get from Iraq? We get 10% of it's oil buddy!

Alan Greenspan stated (in a book he authored) that a principle motivation for the US attack on Iraq was control of OIL.
I understand that Afghanistan is located so that transport of fossil fuels from the Caspian Sea region must principally go through Afghanistan, and that since the US occupation of Afghanistan, a pipeline for natural gas has been constructed.... while growing of opium continues there...

LU: Further, you bear more false witness. While in war innocents do die, it IS NOT the U.S. as you say that is killing civilians, it's Fanatical Islam. Get your FACTS strait [sic]!

YOU are the one who is mistaken here LUniv -- the recently "leaked" records document the fact that the US has killed many, many civilians, including by cruise missiles/drones.
Please note that both sides are killing civilians -- I have previously noted that the two entities vying for power in the world are both wicked; these are (in John the Revelator's terms) the red Beast and the whore Babylon. We find the wicked fighting the wicked, and the good woman (the Church) is admonished to stay away from both of these last-days power-mongers. Moroni says the Lord commands us to awaken to the "secret combination" "among you" and pronounces a "woe" on those "who build it up." Thus, supporting the secret combination that seeks to take away freedoms and dominate the world is a great sin, warned against by Prophets.

Does Iran threaten other countries with nuclear bombs they possess?

Are you trying to tell us that when they DO get Nukes that they have no intention of not only "threatening" their use against both Israel and the U.S., but will almost 100% at some point actually use them??? Are you not aware of their constant threats against Israel and even the U.S., their threats that they WILL destroy Israel, wiping them off the map? Are you so ignorant that you are not aware of their intentions to cause Armageddon, overrunning the earth with Islam and bring back their Messiah??? And you want to be all pissy about "us" having nukes??? Are you aware that Hitler was only months away from HIS OWN Nuke?? Do you even care the amount of life that would have been lost on both sides in Japan if Nukes hadn't been used, because they wouldn't have given up?

Pres. J. Reuben Clark decried the use of atomic bombs by the US on Japan, and I agree with him.
Iran does not have nuclear weapons, and from the physics involved in enhancing uranium to the high percentages needed for weapons, reports conclude that their ability to make such weapons-grade fuel is still several years off -- I agree with those estimates (as a scientist). We have time for diplomacy, rather than attacking a country that does not have these weapons of mass destruction! (See also 3 Nephi 3 and Alma 44-48 warning AGAINST pre-emptive war; further, the US Constitution permits DEFENSIVE war, only.)

Does Iran countenance torture? Abu Ghraib? secret prisons for "extraordinary rendition" and torture (or the equivalent)?

LUniv: You ever heard of bearing false witness??? You are no different than anti-mormons and other liberals, who take a LITTLE Truth and then use it to tell great lies. Since when does one instance of soldiers "embarrassing" prisoners, and a couple other times doing some water boarding on a couple of high value targets a few times in order to get info which they did, which DID in fact save American and other innocent lives, somehow translate into "standard practice" by America, especially when know "actual" harm occurred, they were simply scared briefly??? You are no different than anti-mormons who claim that because Joseph was sealed to other women specifically 3 who were 18 and under that such made him a pedophile and a false prophet, and mormonism nothing but from the Devil. Where did you learn to be a scholar??? You're a joke!

I am not a liberal in the sense you are derisively using the label, nor am I "a joke", and certainly not an "anti-mormon"> I object to your use of name-calling and epithets.

I also thought INITIALLY that US tortures in Iraq (and elsewhere) were "one instance of soldiers "embarrassing" prisoners, and a couple other times doing some water boarding on a couple of high value targets a few times in order to get info which they did", but since have learned from soldiers and whistleblowers -- and from Cheney himself -- that torture was approved at high US government levels and has seen widespread use subsequently... This behavior IMO is contrary to the Geneva Conventions and is punishable by law.

I am saddened by the actions of my country, and frankly, by the apparent inaction by many fellow citizens in speaking out about what is going on.

And I'm saddened by liberals like you in this country who caused more death in Vietnam during the war rather than winning the war and getting it over with, when we were only months away from their surrender, leaving prematurely and causing over 2 Million death in it's after math. And I'm tired of you liberals doing the same thing today in relation to Iraq, just leaving them to their own devices to the wolves without leaving a support force to help rebuild like was done in Japan, Germany, and South Korea. You people think you love life, but you don't. You willingly allow evil to flourish, and foolishly think leaving it alone will bring peace and joy. Don't you know that if you leave a hornets nest alone, it will grow and take over, and yes, when you try to kill them they DO get mad and try to fight back, but if you persevere, you can kill the nest???

You should be speaking out FOR our country, not misrepresenting the truth by taking some and then LYING about what we are actually doing. You are a traitor and a terrible mormon! For you say and believe the same malarkey that Iran and Fanatical Islam believes about America! SHAME ON YOU!

And shame on the rest of you willingly following this corruption and immorality and lack of character and patriotism.
If we make mistakes then FINE, work to correct them..... But what you people do and believe is throwing the baby out with the bath water, and 100 times over misrepresenting of the ACTUAL facts and truth. That is not HONOR, that is not morality!

This is not the LDS Freedom Forum, it's the LDS nutjob leftist forum with only a dash of conservatism and libertarianism. Just a buch of nutballs, 9/11 was an inside job, America is evil, America Tortures, Bush is Hitler, Code Pinko war haters, etc. etc. Good HEAVENS!!! You people aren't Mormonism.... You are pretenders!

"nutballs" "pretenders" "nutjob leftist forum" "traitor" "terrible mormon" = More name-calling and epithets by you, Leeuniverse, contrary to the rules of civility and the rules of this forum. Pathetic, really.
I am a Constitution-supporting conservative, in fact.

I love my country founded by our patriot forefathers inspired by the Lord, but I do NOT love the modern "Gadiantons" among our leaders nor the "whore Babylon" whom I have thoroughly identified in other threads and posts.

I do not identify pre-emptive war with patriotism, and I think it is a great mistake to do so.