LDS Freedom Forum

To sum up, some debt collectors, because of a loophole in some states, are using the court system to get people in jail (contempt of court). Bail is often set at the amount the person owes. When bail is posted, the amount goes to the collection agency and thus the debtor is forced to pay.

It's not quite debtor's prison but it's close.

Article here: http://www.walletpop.com/blog/2010/07/1 ... those-who/

A Me wrote:To sum up, some debt collectors, because of a loophole in some states, are using the court system to get people in jail (contempt of court). Bail is often set at the amount the person owes. When bail is posted, the amount goes to the collection agency and thus the debtor is forced to pay.

It's not quite debtor's prison but it's close.

Article here: http://www.walletpop.com/blog/2010/07/1 ... those-who/

This is clearly an abuse of the court system.

On the other hand, I do think that overall we've made it too easy to be a deadbeat in this country. People borrow way too much money way too easily in part because the penalties for failing to re-pay those debts are so low. I'm not convinced debtors prison is the way to handle it, but I do think additional options need to be on the table.

Hyrcanus wrote:

A Me wrote:To sum up, some debt collectors, because of a loophole in some states, are using the court system to get people in jail (contempt of court). Bail is often set at the amount the person owes. When bail is posted, the amount goes to the collection agency and thus the debtor is forced to pay.

It's not quite debtor's prison but it's close.

Article here: http://www.walletpop.com/blog/2010/07/1 ... those-who/

This is clearly an abuse of the court system.

On the other hand, I do think that overall we've made it too easy to be a deadbeat in this country. People borrow way too much money way too easily in part because the penalties for failing to re-pay those debts are so low. I'm not convinced debtors prison is the way to handle it, but I do think additional options need to be on the table.

The way the economy is falling and increased unemployment, there will be many good people that will become subject to this because of their attempts to survive by using credit cards.

On the other hand, I do think that overall we've made it too easy to be a deadbeat in this country. People borrow way too much money way too easily in part because the penalties for failing to re-pay those debts are so low. I'm not convinced debtors prison is the way to handle it, but I do think additional options need to be on the table.

I'm not so sure anyone I know could be called 'a deadbeat' and yet, we have a debt turned over to a debt collector.

Most farmers who don't receive government subsidies have little spare money hidden away. Although we were paying $100 a month directly to the hospital on our portion of the total cost of a less than 24 hour hospitalization for an emergency appendectomy, the hospital turned the balance of our debt (over $4,000) to a credit collector since we weren't able to pay the balance in full within 10 months. I hate to think what the bill would have been without health insurance!

After the devastating flood in the nearby village of Linton, our son spent many hours assisting in the clean-up. He received a very serious chainsaw injury to his hand from someone unfamiliar with chainsaw safety which necessitated emergency treatment & follow-up. We had hoped the person who caused the injury would have contributed to the cost of care. He did not.

Our son also contracted a life-threatening intestinal infection from working in flood waters contaminated with sewer effluent. He fought being hospitalized since he does not have health insurance, but he was so dehydrated he had to be put on an IV and closely monitored. No help with his hospital expenses there, either.

Both hospital bills were turned over to a collection agency in less than six months. Our son just recently received notice from a lawyer that he will be considered responsible for those debts unless he can prove they aren't his. Well, they are his debts technically & legally. I imagine the next step in the process will be court and if he can't cough up the over $4500 for bail, he will go to prison. No doubt he can work it off doing something useful in jail.

Not everyone being threatened with debtor's prison or garnishment of wages is a 'dead beat'. Not one of us has a credit card. We don't have a lot of toys, either.

Curiously, we know the individual who owns the debt collection agency. He owns two new Jaguar sedans (his & her color scheme), a truck, an SUV for running the family around, and lives in a brand new house in an exclusive neighborhood. Debt is a lucrative business if you are able to get on the 'right' side of it!

buffalo_girl wrote:

On the other hand, I do think that overall we've made it too easy to be a deadbeat in this country. People borrow way too much money way too easily in part because the penalties for failing to re-pay those debts are so low. I'm not convinced debtors prison is the way to handle it, but I do think additional options need to be on the table.

I'm not so sure anyone I know could be called 'a deadbeat' and yet, we have a debt turned over to a debt collector.

Most farmers who don't receive government subsidies have little spare money hidden away. Although we were paying $100 a month directly to the hospital on our portion of the total cost of a less than 24 hour hospitalization for an emergency appendectomy, the hospital turned the balance of our debt (over $4,000) to a credit collector since we weren't able to pay the balance in full within 10 months. I hate to think what the bill would have been without health insurance!

After the devastating flood in the nearby village of Linton, our son spent many hours assisting in the clean-up. He received a very serious chainsaw injury to his hand from someone unfamiliar with chainsaw safety which necessitated emergency treatment & follow-up. We had hoped the person who caused the injury would have contributed to the cost of care. He did not.

Our son also contracted a life-threatening intestinal infection from working in flood waters contaminated with sewer effluent. He fought being hospitalized since he does not have health insurance, but he was so dehydrated he had to be put on an IV and closely monitored. No help with his hospital expenses there, either.

Both hospital bills were turned over to a collection agency in less than six months. Our son just recently received notice from a lawyer that he will be considered responsible for those debts unless he can prove they aren't his. Well, they are his debts technically & legally. I imagine the next step in the process will be court and if he can't cough up the over $4500 for bail, he will go to prison. No doubt he can work it off doing something useful in jail.

Not everyone being threatened with debtor's prison or garnishment of wages is a 'dead beat'. Not one of us has a credit card. We don't have a lot of toys, either.

Curiously, we know the individual who owns the debt collection agency. He owns two new Jaguar sedans (his & her color scheme), a truck, an SUV for running the family around, and lives in a brand new house in an exclusive neighborhood. Debt is a lucrative business if you are able to get on the 'right' side of it!

Just for the record, I was careful not to suggest that everyone who owes money is a deadbeat, only that if one chooses to be, we've made it easy for them. I appreciate the difficulty of your situation, but you weren't being accused of what you're defending yourself against.

buffalo_girl wrote:Debt is a lucrative business if you are able to get on the 'right' side of it!

Understatement of the century!!!!

I'm not 'defending' myself. I'm perfectly 'good' with where I am.

I'm simply stating that there must be more families than ours who are being driven into the ground by a malignant financial system. I'll be the last to judge how those families found themselves in such difficulties. Having experienced this, I know how easily we can lose everything for which we have labored throughout life.

Congress didn't turn over Wall Street's debt to a collection agency.

We get to pay it as 'proxies' without even being asked if we want to pay their debt. "Too big to fail", that's the key!

buffalo_girl wrote:I'm not 'defending' myself. I'm perfectly 'good' with where I am.

I'm simply stating that there must be more families than ours who are being driven into the ground by a malignant financial system. I'll be the last to judge how those families found themselves in such difficulties. Having experienced this, I know how easily we can lose everything for which we have labored throughout life.

Congress didn't turn over Wall Street's debt to a collection agency.

We get to pay it as 'proxies' without even being asked if we want to pay their debt. "Too big to fail", that's the key!

Well said!!! I personally don't know of anybody that can't get in a tight spot pretty quick depending on economics and luck. An unforeseen disaster here or there, loss of job, loss of property, lawsuits, health problems, etc etc etc.

buffalo_girl wrote:I'm not 'defending' myself. I'm perfectly 'good' with where I am.

I'm simply stating that there must be more families than ours who are being driven into the ground by a malignant financial system. I'll be the last to judge how those families found themselves in such difficulties. Having experienced this, I know how easily we can lose everything for which we have labored throughout life.

Congress didn't turn over Wall Street's debt to a collection agency.

We get to pay it as 'proxies' without even being asked if we want to pay their debt. "Too big to fail", that's the key!

I'm sorry if my post offended you. I completely agree that we've got a horrible mess on our hands with a combination of gross negligence and greed on the part of the government, the financial systems and the voters.

I'm only trying to point out that part of an overhaul to the whole system needs to make borrowing money as difficult as the real risks dictate, meaning that many people who borrow now wouldn't be able to. While there are lots of people in your shoes that are being oppressed by unreasonable debts, there are also lots of people who willingly abuse the system to buy things they can't afford and never intend to pay for. It's a vicious system that misses the mark of justice on both sides of the spectrum.

Hyrcanus wrote:...there are also lots of people who willingly abuse the system to buy things they can't afford and never intend to pay for.

How can you abuse a system that is DESIGNED to allow people to buy things they can't afford and never intended to pay for????

The fact that the system was set up to allow people to bury themselves in debt...

...and once that fact is laid bare......one must ask why?

Hyrcanus wrote:

buffalo_girl wrote:I'm not 'defending' myself. I'm perfectly 'good' with where I am.

I'm simply stating that there must be more families than ours who are being driven into the ground by a malignant financial system. I'll be the last to judge how those families found themselves in such difficulties. Having experienced this, I know how easily we can lose everything for which we have labored throughout life.

Congress didn't turn over Wall Street's debt to a collection agency.

We get to pay it as 'proxies' without even being asked if we want to pay their debt. "Too big to fail", that's the key!

I'm sorry if my post offended you. I completely agree that we've got a horrible mess on our hands with a combination of gross negligence and greed on the part of the government, the financial systems and the voters.

I'm only trying to point out that part of an overhaul to the whole system needs to make borrowing money as difficult as the real risks dictate, meaning that many people who borrow now wouldn't be able to. While there are lots of people in your shoes that are being oppressed by unreasonable debts, there are also lots of people who willingly abuse the system to buy things they can't afford and never intend to pay for. It's a vicious system that misses the mark of justice on both sides of the spectrum.

The system is corrupt, our foundation of debt and extreme corruption on the inner circles is the problem. Our government teaches us to spend more, to get out of economic problems, isn't that what they do to the tune of trillions? We are continuously going further into debt as a nation to benefit elites, bankers, corporations, wall street, war contractors etc. Who runs and use the debt system to their advantage at the cost to many. Consolidation of our assets seems to be a goal.....

The people who just lost their jobs because of the corrupt debt and banking systerm and are now living on credit are not the problem nor the creators of it. We are being sucked into the debt based economic tide that rises and falls and potentially will completely collapse; we will all rise and fall together in the end, and not many will escape it. Debt and fraud effects are far reaching and will destroy our whole system and way of life when it finally crumbles, question is how much longer.