Volunteer police officers

[Book of Ruth]

What does everyone think of bringing back the volunteer police officer. States are obviously being forced feed bankruptcy by the Feds, so that the states will HAVE to turn to big brother for help with law enforcement. Is this a valid way for states to take care of themselves? Any comments?

It seems to work with firefighters and emt's.

[fps.sledge]

Of course they will turn the the Fed. In a recession, it would be natural to assume that with money transactions taking a drop, there would be less to tax. Less tax equals less money to fund gov't operations. The Fed shouldn't be any better. These institutions should downsize to compensate for a decrease in taxes the. The private industry must downsize to compensate for lower income just the same. I don't understand how the gov't can maintain it's size and resources, AND provide unemployment to its citizens. Of course, borrowing and printing money is one solution I'm sure the gov't doing.

Back on track. I would be willing to volunteer. Crime fighting ought to be on a as-needed basis anyways. When police officers are forced to go and and find crime and come back with results, naturally they are going to find any crime. Example is when an officer tickets someone for not "completely" stopping at a stop sign. When a citizen does this, it might be a crime technically. But is this really a danger to society? When a citizen slows down, shows courtesy and respect for public safeety by yielding to no traffic, but didn't make an absolute stop, is this really dangerous? Yet they are fined severely for it. The same fine one receives when running a stop sign, completely disregarding safety for the public. I'm not saying running stop signs is ok, what I am saying is P.O. who do this are bored out of their minds. They're getting paid, so they have to show some results.

In my hometown Delta, the firefighters are all volunteer. I understand this is different that crime, as crime can happen much more easily. However, they are not out there in peoples way. They are there to serve when needed. This shouldn't mean that P.O. should only be volunteer. But having to rely on volunteer police officers would cut down on corrupt police officers and them making mistakes. It would provide freedom for the community. It's easy to measure the amount of "crime" committed. It's much more difficult to measure the amount of "freedom maintained."

Officers might be respected much more for investigating crimes on a volunteer basis. It would also provide oppprtunity for community citizens to understand the legal system. Rather than just assuming police officers know what they're doing all the time. If the legal system is to complex for an average joe to understand, then maybe they shouldn't be expected to follow the legal system? It could be more uniting for the community to have volunteer officers. Overall, I like it.

The only thing to remember is if crime exceeds the ability for volunteers to handle, then permanent P.O. is a must. We don't want any of our communities turning into communities in England where they are hiring vigilante gangs to protect their neighborhoods.

[Book of Ruth]

I agree. I was just thinking about how many good upright citizens we have available for policing lesser crimes such as theft or vandalism. These volunteers could be trained and help paid police officers become aware of more violent crimes.

But my biggest reason is to stick it to the Feds that we can handle our own state.

[mchlwise]

We might all be going in that direction due to budget shortfalls and such, but I'm personally against it.

Not that I'm a big fan of the police - I'm not - but they have had their bounds pretty clearly defined for a long time now. Evidence not properly gathered gets thrown out as a Fourth Amendment violation (for example) which usually torpedoes a case entirely.

Volunteer citizens who don't know the limits and bounds of procedure, as professional police departments do, would likely do more harm than good. With ignorance but the best of intentions, they could easily get over-zealous in going after a "bad guy", violate Constitutional safeguards, and destroy the entire case against him. The result would be someone who should have gone to jail going free - because of an untrained volunteer police force.

[Book of Ruth]

It just seems that due to budget short falls, that our options will be limited to police officers will only being able to respond to serious violent crimes, and no crimes that are not violent will not be investigated. If it came to this, wouldn't all mayheim break loose? Wouldn't people who didn't commit some type of crime for fear of being caught have a hayday?

I do see your point about evidence gathering and such, and training would have to take place, just as emt's have to be trained to keep from being sued. But why couldn't a volunteer work with paid police just as emt's work with paramedics?
Each would have their scope of practice that they must work within.

[fps.sledge]

as professional police departments do, would likely do more harm than good. With ignorance but the best of intentions, they could easily get over-zealous in going after a "bad guy", violate Constitutional safeguards, and destroy the entire case against him. The result would be someone who should have gone to jail going free - because of an untrained volunteer police force.

Where does this "professional police department" exist that safeguards the constitution? I would really like to meet these individuals.

[Original_Intent]

Hmm why the assumption that people are just wanting to have an anarchist heyday without the police? I can think of only two possibilities for making such an assumption:

1) You harbor such desires yourself, or
2) You consider yourself much better than the average person.

The best police force we could wish for is a well armed and well informed citizenry. As Mark Twain said, "An armed society is a polite society."

Maybe we will be done with some of the judicial foolishness such as thinking that if you shoot a robber in your house, if he dies in your house you are OK legally but if he gets out of your house (or worse, off your property!!!) that you are suddenly in trouble for defending yourself.

[Rensai]

Where does this "professional police department" exist that safeguards the constitution? I would really like to meet these individuals.

Well said. Seems like every day brings us another story or video of criminals in uniform.

I kind of like the volunteer idea, though I think I might take it a step farther. It seems to me like those who are interested in becoming police officers are those who like having power over others. They are the type of people who are cops now, and they would be the first ones to volunteer too.

So I'd say rather than volunteer, we make it a civic duty, like registering for the draft or jury duty. Your name gets drawn, you serve as a policeman part time for a while. This would spread knowledge of the laws around more and, also encourage fair treatment. After all, the guy you pull over and harass for not coming to a complete stop, may be in a position to do the same to you next month.

[fps.sledge]

Just to clarify again, I'm not saying that running a stop sign is ok. I understand that if we allow this, then we allow a system where people expect to always run them. (The real solution is to have more yield signs, this is besides the point)

My point was that we don't need to be paying for policemen to be sitting at intersections "waiting" for people to run a stop sign. This is a pathetic excuse for law enforcement. Just the same as police checking for expired registration all the time. Real crime needs attention. Other crimes need priority.

Officers need to meet the demand to real crime rather than meeting the demand of infractions.

[NoGreaterLove]

Back on track. I would be willing to volunteer.

Contact your local law enforcement agency. Many have reserves and posse that volunteer their time. No need to wait. You will need to go through background checks and polygraph test, physical, psych test etc..

[Original_Intent]

The very thought about what the word "police" means should be repugnant to any liberty loving person.

We would do well to return to the "Peace Officer" and the "Justice of the Peace" model.

[Toto]

I like the idea as long as it squares with the Constitution, which actually provides the remedy you are suggesting, specifically, a well regulated Militia being NECESSARY to the SECURITY of a FREE State.

According to Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Ame ... nstitution , prior to the Constitution, American settlers viewed the right for deterring undemocratic government, repelling invasion, suppressing insurrection, facilitating a natural right of self-defense, PARTICIPATING IN LAW ENFORCEMENT, and enabling the people to organize a militia system.

In Utah, for example, the Governor of the State is the head of the Militia, but the Office of Governor, as all public offices in the State, are vacant due to violations of the Oath of Office provisions of the constitutions, and they are using anything BUT Gold and Silver Coin as a Tender in Payment of Debt. So the first thing that needs to be done is to hold valid elections and fill the vacancies in public office like suggested in the Declaration of Independence which reads:

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”

However, it appears the vast majority prefer voluntary servitude above free agency, and so the United Order may have to rise from the ashes after the wicked are destroyed along with the combinations they let get above them.

[jnjnelson]

What does everyone think of bringing back the volunteer police officer. States are obviously being forced feed bankruptcy by the Feds, so that the states will HAVE to turn to big brother for help with law enforcement. Is this a valid way for states to take care of themselves? Any comments?

It seems to work with firefighters and emt's.

Firefighters and other emergency personnel don't fit into the proper role of government, in my opinion. However, law enforcement does. I'm all for bringing back the volunteer police officer, in fact I wouldn't mind law enforcement to be volunteer and paid - make all law enforcement to be elected positions with term limits and all that goes along with other elected positions. If a police officer knows he will be held accountable directly to the people he serves at the ballot box, instead of to other cops with whom he might share corruption, that police officer might pay more attention to what is right, instead of what is legal.

Either way, the current budget problems will not be solved by restructuring law enforcement, because the budget problems themselves are not primarily associated with law enforcement. The current budget problems are primarily due to the wasteful social programs (such as welfare, Medicaid, Medicare, government schools, etc.) not to law enforcement.

[fps.sledge]

It would certainly be cheaper. Well, I think. Recently, we had some vandalism and a building my family owns. A couple of different deputies came and spoke why my father. I was busy worked during the conversations, but both times they left their trucks outside running. I didn't get a chance to ask them why they did this. Logically, a vehicle doesn't need to be running for an hour. Yes, it was that long they spoke for. Two different events. This doesn't seem very friendly to the tax payer.

What do they care? They get paid one way or another. They don't have to account to their neighbor for their actions. It's just assumed that a dedicated police force is ran properly.

[creator]

What does everyone think of bringing back the volunteer police officer.

I'm pretty sure we do have volunteer Sheriff's deputies in Utah. At least in some counties.

[mchlwise]

Where does this "professional police department" exist that safeguards the constitution? I would really like to meet these individuals.

I never said that professional police departments safeguard the Constitution. What I said was that their bounds have been pretty well established, mostly by the Constitution.

I would argue that defense attorneys safeguard the Constitution far more than any police department does. But that's my point. Police officers don't want someone they know is a scumbag to go free. They know that if they don't get a warrant, or read someone their rights that they will likely go free.

Yes, police are trampling people's rights more and more - but think of how many rights would be trampled by people who don't even know what rights are.