LDS Freedom Forum

I realize the importance of education and the vigilant persuit of knowledge, but (in my view) colleges are bastions of groupthink, suppression of ideas, speech codes, and political correctness. There's more but suffice it to say I don't subscribe to the idea that a college educated person is any more well off spiritually, financially, or mentally than someone that learns another way. In a discussion I had with some of my family about this, they disagreed and said, "...but the Church has counciled us to get a college education." This frosted me a little bit, and I tried to find where this has been said, but I'm out of luck. Has this been the official council of the Church?

I don't have a citation to point you to, but it is my understanding that the church has counseled us to get a higher education (as in above high-school). I don't know that they necessarily used the word "college" in the counsel, but it was implied. Perhaps "formal" education.

I tend to agree with a lot of your views on colleges and universities, but I believe they also have some benefit and do in fact educate.

Regardless of what either of us think about colleges, the fact is that in this country a formal higher education is a near-necessity in order to obtain a skilled job of any kind. I don't believe the counsel is necessarily an endorsement of colleges and universities as much as it is an acceptance of the world we live in and the absolute need we have of possessing that certain piece of paper if we wish to get ahead in life and provide for our families.

I have never heard them say college education, just education. It's in the For the Strength of the Youth pamphlet and other places, too, I'm sure. I agree that most colleges are not the best place to obtain an open mind and the ability to think for yourself, but they can help. My beliefs were challenged by college and I learned many truths, even through the propaganda I was taught. Because I discovered that many of the things my parents had taught me were wrong, it made me realize that I needed to think about things and question everything I was taught to find out if they were really true. Overall it made a positive difference in my life, though it was a lot of time and money spent for the lesson. Had my parents been awake and taught me how to think as a youth, I could have learned so much more during that time by choosing a better college or at least studying differently rather than just trying to figure out how to beat the tests. I might have even learned a trade rather than spending my time at school since those are the things that really build wealth.

There a tons of quotes out there, you can find them in both the specific and general variety to support a particular view. I think the below quote is the best summary of his intent:

Be smart. You are all in school. Do not waste your time. This is a time of great opportunity that you will never have again as long as you live. Make the most of it right now. It is wonderfully challenging. It is hard, it is tough, isn’t it? But what a wonderful thing to go and learn of all the accumulated knowledge of all the centuries of time. Go on to college or whatever school, vocational school, whatever your choice is, but take advantage of every opportunity that you have because the Lord has laid upon you a mandate through revelation to the Prophet Joseph Smith concerning not only spiritual learning but secular learning. Yours is the responsibility, and you can’t afford to waste your time. There is so much to learn. Be smart. Give it the very best that you have.

Source: Discourses of Gordon B. Hinckley Vol. 1, pages 395-396

I would have to agree. I got a college degree and it is over rated. Many fellow students went thru the necessary steps and regurgitated the necessary facts to also get their degrees, but in truth learned very little. College can be wonderful and provide many learning opportunities, but it is the learning that is important, not the diploma.

I am 100% sure that most people would do better taking four years of their lives and have a library card, and spending three years of that studying whatever interested them, and then spending the fourth year working with experts in whatever field they wanted to pursue and getting further explanation and help, AFTER they had spent a fwe years of personal study and knew enough to ask intelligent questions. It would be much cheaper and result in a better education. Unfortunately most (and I include myself when I was that age) do not have the necessary discipline to make productive use of the time. Indeed, it would likely lead to problems, as "idle hands are the devils playground".

The nice thing is, this type of ongoing education - which we have been charged to take part in - is available to most if not all of us and is not as financially burdensome as "formal education".

I think Shim hits this one out of the Park...
The modern College experience is not only worthless but destructive. I argue this with my family on a constant basis. Sadly, with this said I have insisted each of my kids get a degree for the value in the marketplace, but I constantly drill them on what they are learning and what is right and what is wrong.
The modern university is nothing more than a finishing school for the left wing ideologues.
Anti-Religion, Anti-Conservatism, Anti-Society, Anti-Morality and so on so forth.

Good old fashioned wisdom is what missing in most of the world these days. It dosen't come from the class room. I think it is a gift from God and I would follow a man for eternity who has it rather than a man with numerous years of class room education who can speak words that are as long as the grand canyon that mean nothing.

One thing that a college education can effectively do for people is to help them think critically. There are many advantages to higher education. My college time helped me strengthen my testimony and learn to stand up more for my beliefs. In the end, it's what you make of it. I attended college when I was in my thirties, so that certainly played a part to the above lines. I'm sure I would have squandered my time if I had entered college when I was 18. Personally, I wasn't ready then.

dewajack wrote:One thing that a college education can effectively do for people is to help them think critically. There are many advantages to higher education. My college time helped me strengthen my testimony and learn to stand up more for my beliefs. In the end, it's what you make of it. I attended college when I was in my thirties, so that certainly played a part to the above lines. I'm sure I would have squandered my time if I had entered college when I was 18. Personally, I wasn't ready then.

I agree.

also

why even bother trying to analyze what the brethren meant by saying get a higher education. I know when i start doing stuff like that it is usually to find a way to make a situation fit to how i'm living my life or how i would like to think things should be. they said get a higher education, it probly means college.

how many of the brethren don't have a degree?

i would say that most people on this forum have answered this question a million times to each other on almost every topic. learn about it, pray, get confirmations on answers, adjust and live. not sure why we have to analyze so deeply what higher education means. if your college education was a wash, its probably because you didn't take advantage of it in the best way possible. anyone who just goes with the flow and gets the bare minimum done isn't going to get a lot out of an experience.

i know that is where i struggle for sure.

plus, i need a structure to get me going. i can be guided on the details as i go. I'm not one of those who could go into a Library and decide for myself what to read. or someone who can jsut pick up a skill without watching, then doing, etc.

Geeswell wrote:

dewajack wrote:One thing that a college education can effectively do for people is to help them think critically. There are many advantages to higher education. My college time helped me strengthen my testimony and learn to stand up more for my beliefs. In the end, it's what you make of it. I attended college when I was in my thirties, so that certainly played a part to the above lines. I'm sure I would have squandered my time if I had entered college when I was 18. Personally, I wasn't ready then.

I agree.

also

why even bother trying to analyze what the brethren meant by saying get a higher education. I know when i start doing stuff like that it is usually to find a way to make a situation fit to how i'm living my life or how i would like to think things should be. they said get a higher education, it probly means college.

how many of the brethren don't have a degree?

i would say that most people on this forum have answered this question a million times to each other on almost every topic. learn about it, pray, get confirmations on answers, adjust and live. not sure why we have to analyze so deeply what higher education means. if your college education was a wash, its probably because you didn't take advantage of it in the best way possible. anyone who just goes with the flow and gets the bare minimum done isn't going to get a lot out of an experience.

i know that is where i struggle for sure.

plus, i need a structure to get me going. i can be guided on the details as i go. I'm not one of those who could go into a Library and decide for myself what to read. or someone who can jsut pick up a skill without watching, then doing, etc.

Geeswell...great observation. I know some people who are constantly trying to analyze what the Brethren mean when in fact we have been told that they will speak in plainness to be understood...and in plainness to not be misunderstood.

Geeswell wrote:

dewajack wrote:One thing that a college education can effectively do for people is to help them think critically. There are many advantages to higher education. My college time helped me strengthen my testimony and learn to stand up more for my beliefs. In the end, it's what you make of it. I attended college when I was in my thirties, so that certainly played a part to the above lines. I'm sure I would have squandered my time if I had entered college when I was 18. Personally, I wasn't ready then.

I agree.

also

why even bother trying to analyze what the brethren meant by saying get a higher education. I know when i start doing stuff like that it is usually to find a way to make a situation fit to how i'm living my life or how i would like to think things should be. they said get a higher education, it probly means college.

how many of the brethren don't have a degree?

i would say that most people on this forum have answered this question a million times to each other on almost every topic. learn about it, pray, get confirmations on answers, adjust and live. not sure why we have to analyze so deeply what higher education means. if your college education was a wash, its probably because you didn't take advantage of it in the best way possible. anyone who just goes with the flow and gets the bare minimum done isn't going to get a lot out of an experience.

i know that is where i struggle for sure.

plus, i need a structure to get me going. i can be guided on the details as i go. I'm not one of those who could go into a Library and decide for myself what to read. or someone who can jsut pick up a skill without watching, then doing, etc.

The thread started by asking if any of the Prophets had actually insisted that only a college education would suffice. So the real goal was to find out what was actually said, instead of the popular interpretation. The converse of the problem you present is also a big problem, people who hear what the Prophets say, follow the letter of the law, but completely miss the spirit of the law because they aren't thinking about it. We all need to try and balance following the counsel we're given rigorously while still thinking things through so we're obeying the spirit of the counsel as well.