LDS Freedom Forum

Shirk

There is a word for all of you who believe the United States Government is the enemy. I'll bet there is no one on this forum that even knows what it means. It is the Muslim word used to refer to the only unforgivable sin in Islam: Belief that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. This is not a radical Islamic belief. It is the belief of mainstream Islam. It is their basis for their hatred of Christians. I will share another fact. Muslims, the ones who know anything about Mormonism, hate Mormons more than any other Christian religion. Why, because of Mormon's belief in a prophet. Mohammad was the last prophet and to believe that there is one after him is blaspheme. When the majority of the Muslims figure this out they will be coming after the Mormons. Maybe you Mormons should be a little more appreciative of your governments efforts to protect you from this enemy. You will see the day your wish you had.

Mormons have more in common with Muslims than we do with any other Christian denominations. Plus, I am highly critical and disbelieving that belief in Jesus Christ is the "only unforgivable sin" in Islam because the Qu'ran frequently quotes Jesus, and Mohammad even claims to have seen Jesus as he ascended into heaven. Indeed, Jesus is the most quoted prophet in the Qu'ran, I do believe.

Muslims believe Jesus to be a prophet, but don't believe he was the son of God. Muslims say they don't believe this because they don't think God would suffer to watch his only son die an embarrassing death on the cross. Therefor, they believe Jesus would have been taken away before he gave up the ghost.

But truely, between Mormons and Muslims there are numerous similarities. Word of Wisdom, proper role of a man and women, other gospel texts, etc...

So as for me, I'll fear the other "Christians" controlling our government before I ever fear a Muslim.

I will share another fact. Muslims, the ones who know anything about Mormonism, hate Mormons more than any other Christian religion.

Can you provide a reference from this? Because it directly contradicts the experiences my family has had.

My family has played host to several Muslims in their home, and they invariably expressed admiration for Mormons because of their family values.

Also, my mother spent several years working for a church sponsored NGO. During that time she traveled to several middle-eastern countries and was graciously received into the homes of Muslims. They also admired the Mormons for their ability to maintain standards in an increasingly evil society. Some Muslim leaders actively sought out the help of Mormons to help them fight the growing influence of homosexual activists and other equally unsavory groups that were gaining influence (with the help of the UN) in their developing countries.

I'm not denying that certain factions of Muslims (and Christians for that matter) are bad. But I have a hard time believing your claim.

What personal experience do you have with these people?

Maybe you Mormons should be a little more appreciative of your governments efforts to protect you from this enemy. You will see the day your wish you had.

Why is this? Is the government planning to punish those who don't express the appropriate level of gratitude for having their nail clippers and hand lotion confiscated at the airport?

stormin20 wrote:Mormons have more in common with Muslims than we do with any other Christian denominations. Plus, I am highly critical and disbelieving that belief in Jesus Christ is the "only unforgivable sin" in Islam because the Qu'ran frequently quotes Jesus, and Mohammad even claims to have seen Jesus as he ascended into heaven. Indeed, Jesus is the most quoted prophet in the Qu'ran, I do believe.

Muslims believe Jesus to be a prophet, but don't believe he was the son of God. Muslims say they don't believe this because they don't think God would suffer to watch his only son die an embarrassing death on the cross. Therefor, they believe Jesus would have been taken away before he gave up the ghost.

But truely, between Mormons and Muslims there are numerous similarities. Word of Wisdom, proper role of a man and women, other gospel texts, etc...

So as for me, I'll fear the other "Christians" controlling our government before I ever fear a Muslim.

I get my information straight from the horses mouth. Ask a Muslim. If you need a reference here one is. http://www.allaahuakbar.net/shirk/index.htm

Muslims are anti christ: yes they say he was a prophet but they vehemently deny that he was the son of God. They recently rounded up all of the mormons they could identify in Saudi Arabia and imprisoned them. I have lived in the middle east and dealt in the counter terrorism field for over 25 years. Belive me Muslims that know what we belive are no friends to the mormon faith.

Nice to see that you folks like the enemy better than your own government.

Who is this guy? Is he monitoring the forum for some specific reason?

jbalm wrote: My family has played host to several Muslims in their home, and they invariably expressed admiration for Mormons because of their family values.

This is my experience as well.

As for extremists, I'm sure they exist. However we still have to address two issues.

1. There probably are some leaders that do want to wipe the U.S. (& maybe even the Mormons) off the map. We do need to deal with this threat.

2. The best way for these fanaticals to recruit those that are still unsure is to point to the U.S. occupying various Middle East countries. So we do have to look at our foreign policy to better manage this threat.

So many people focus just on #1 without even thinking about #2 (while accusing anyone that wants to discuss #2 as being unpatriotic). The proper foreign policy should be able to deal with both (i.e., if we would quit being the police men of the world then the terrorists would have a more difficult time of recruiting, then with the money we saved we could actually put more time, money & effort in handling problem #1 properly).

Nice to see that you folks like the enemy better than your own government.

Nice to see that you don't realize that the some of the government, as well as some of the Muslims, are the enemy.

Enemy identification must not be your forte.

If you are interested in nothing more that parroting Republican Party platitudes, then http://www.hannity.com/ might be more to your liking. They, like you, seem intent on fomenting blind hatred when none need exist.

Opinions expressed on this thread contribute to my sincere appreciation for the knowledge (call it testimony if you like) I have that next to and heavily influenced by Satan, certain elements in our own US FedGov, in the business world, in academia, and in the military are the greatest enemies to what is left of our constitutional republic. That testimony can stand by itself on the basis of my own experiences, observations, and studies, without needing support of others well known to many members of this forum, others who have far more credibility than any of us here. It is not based on or influenced by my military service, operations behind the Berlin Wall in the early '60's, my 12 years of living and working in Europe and the Mid-East (Israel, Libya, and Saudi Arabia), or being an intended victim of terrorist attacks. Being involved in an event does not qualify one as knowledgeable about its causes, intended results, or actual results.

It is based on awareness of the “hidden things of darkness” that I began to notice decades ago and continue to see today, which led to my personalized study of history and world events. And I guess it helps to have on a couple of occasions been guilty of participating in transfer of militarily useful technology to both Russia and China because it enhanced my career.

I think you took the wind right out of his sails Lundbaek!

We have only ever had positive experiences with Muslims regarding religion as well. It is obvious now where "Investigator" is coming from, a position of hatred. He clearly advocates a crusade to eliminate the (make believe) threat. And furthermore we are to shut up and thank him for it! Truly we do not share the same religion.

I can only stand in agreement with those of you that support and love all people, regardless of what propaganda is being preached from the media pulpit.

ALL of my personal experiences with My Islamic neighbors and my friend in Iran have been positive. My beliefs have been respected and in many cases admired. I have had a family just across the street as for a Book Of Mormon and my music. They told me that they feel God when they hear my music so they listen to it every day.

They also believe that Jesus will come again, that we will come with another prophet in the end of times.

We found very little differences with each other.

I will not give in to the hate talk that is being used to instill fear and hatred of an entire religion. I am an American. Everyone has that right to worship.

We KNOW that our government has destroyed the Constitution, that there is little of it that remains, all these executive orders etc, and laws that have been passed are making us in slavery more to our government rather then them serving us as they should, protecting OUR rights. Anyone who defends the taking of liberty has no clue what this nation was founded on. It is a Satanic plan to deny personal free will or the free will of another nation. We are to defend ourselves when needed, and love our neighbors, trusting in the Lord, that is it...

I Love ALL people, and I am especially thankful to my Islamic friends.

Especially for a certain one in Iran, and many of you know why.

Has anyone ever asked a Muslim if it is unforgivable to belive if Jesus is the Son of God? Did anyone look at the link? There are hundreds more with the same information. Their religion is against the basic foundation of Christianity. Don't trust me just check out their literature. Or ask a muslim they all know this. I don't hate anyone. I'm just stating fact.

Your gross generalization gives you away and eliminates any credibility you may have had. There are many religions in the Mideast and they most certainly do not agree on a great many points.

You tripped over AN opinion and condemn an entire people for it. Care for them to return the favor you Neo Nazi?

I can easily conclude that you are a neo nazi, because you are a christian American, and we know they are all neo nazis.

Let alone the fact that you actually advocate our mass murder "over there."

If we were to look at this objectively (heaven forbid. Or rather Department of Homeland Security forbids.) We could compare your Neo-Conservative ilk to the Muslims (to continue your gross over-generalization of an entire race of people). We would find that one has taken extensive actions to curtail our freedoms and liberties and one is mad at us for messing with them in every way shape and form and offends by defending themselves. I'll let you guess which is which.

investigator wrote:Has anyone ever asked a Muslim if it is unforgivable to belive if Jesus is the Son of God? Did anyone look at the link? There are hundreds more with the same information. Their religion is against the basic foundation of Christianity. Don't trust me just check out their literature. Or ask a muslim they all know this. I don't hate anyone. I'm just stating fact.

Yes I have. They disagree that He is. Do not believe all that you read, go and study the people. The mainstream people not the extremists. The Anti's, the haters. Have you even read the Qu'ran? There are some things that are very beautiful in there. It also states that Christians, Jews and Moslems alike will all receive their heavenly rewards.

Islam is a religion of peace, there are just some extremists that take it TOO FAR! Just like there were those in the time of the Crusades that murdered for their extreme beliefs and creeds. Was all of Christianity in favor of that? Or was it forced on them by an unrighteous ruler or spiritual leader? I refuse to condemn an entire religion based on the actions and poor choices of a few.

Submitted for your approval,

My case study of my life.

I have greatly benefited from every single association with Middle Easterners. I have the Persian Rugs and Honey to prove it. They have never negatively impacted my life, not at all. Neither individually nor collectively.

Now consider the Neo-Cons. I live in Alaska and now have to show my papers (like a good Soviet) in order to go ANYWHERE else. I cannot even wear my shoes through the airport even after showing my papers nor carry my bottle of water, water mind you through security. I cannot buy any iodine in concentrations greater than 2.2% anymore. I cannot film or speak where or how I want to and I cannot say a lot of the things I (to quote a few Idahoans I've known) usta' could. I could go on and on and on listing the negative impacts that your ilk have brought me, and yet you ask me to hate the former and embrace the latter as my saviors?

Do you really not expect us to take offense at that ludicrous suggestion?

A little bit of Comparison





Verily, Allah forgives not that partners should be set up with him in worship, but He forgives except that (anything else) to whom He pleases, and whoever sets up partners with Allah in worship, he has indeed invented a tremendous sin [Al-QUR'aN Surah:4:48]


Ex. 20: 3
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.


Ex. 34: 14
14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:


Lev. 26: 1
1 Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.

Isa. 43: 11.
11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Hosea 13: 4.
4 Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.

Moslems believe that there is only ONE God. And that he is the only one that we should worship, just as we believe.

The similarities are awesome.

I have been shot at by Moslem Arab terrorists, found myself sitting opposite one on a bus carrying a gift wrapped grenade, and treated rudely a couple of times by Moslem Arabs. I have also been a guest of Bedouins, had many friendly and mutually helpful encounters with Moslem Arabs, and a Moslem Arab bus driver in Libya of all places offered to and drove me after his working hours to collect a dozen other guys and get us out of a jam that could have landed the lot of us in jail, and refused money for it. I wonder if I would do the same for a bunch of Arabs stuck in a similar jam in the USA or anywhere else.

W. Cleon Skousen once stated that it was Russia's intent to fight Israel right down to the last Arab.

But Russia wouldn't be in a position to fight hardly anybody were it not for the assistance received from certain traitorous Americans, along with a few other westerners.

investigator wrote:Shirk

There is a word for all of you who believe the United States Government is the enemy. I'll bet there is no one on this forum that even knows what it means. It is the Muslim word used to refer to the only unforgivable sin in Islam: Belief that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. This is not a radical Islamic belief. It is the belief of mainstream Islam. It is their basis for their hatred of Christians. I will share another fact. Muslims, the ones who know anything about Mormonism, hate Mormons more than any other Christian religion. Why, because of Mormon's belief in a prophet. Mohammad was the last prophet and to believe that there is one after him is blaspheme. When the majority of the Muslims figure this out they will be coming after the Mormons. Maybe you Mormons should be a little more appreciative of your governments efforts to protect you from this enemy. You will see the day your wish you had.

"He whom gives up a little freedom for a little security will end up with neither"

Even if there were some truth to what you are suggesting, Most of us here wouldn't submitt to scare tactics in exchange for freedom, real threats or not.

jdadams22 wrote:

jbalm wrote: My family has played host to several Muslims in their home, and they invariably expressed admiration for Mormons because of their family values.

This is my experience as well.

As for extremists, I'm sure they exist. However we still have to address two issues.

1. There probably are some leaders that do want to wipe the U.S. (& maybe even the Mormons) off the map. We do need to deal with this threat.

2. The best way for these fanaticals to recruit those that are still unsure is to point to the U.S. occupying various Middle East countries. So we do have to look at our foreign policy to better manage this threat.

So many people focus just on #1 without even thinking about #2 (while accusing anyone that wants to discuss #2 as being unpatriotic). The proper foreign policy should be able to deal with both (i.e., if we would quit being the police men of the world then the terrorists would have a more difficult time of recruiting, then with the money we saved we could actually put more time, money & effort in handling problem #1 properly).

I agree with you here. Too bad the horse is already out of the barn and we have to deal with it

buffalo_girl wrote:Who is this guy? Is he monitoring the forum for some specific reason?

We are monitoring this forum with plans of a FISA in a few weeks.

jbalm wrote:

I will share another fact. Muslims, the ones who know anything about Mormonism, hate Mormons more than any other Christian religion.

Can you provide a reference from this? Because it directly contradicts the experiences my family has had.

My family has played host to several Muslims in their home, and they invariably expressed admiration for Mormons because of their family values.

Also, my mother spent several years working for a church sponsored NGO. During that time she traveled to several middle-eastern countries and was graciously received into the homes of Muslims. They also admired the Mormons for their ability to maintain standards in an increasingly evil society. Some Muslim leaders actively sought out the help of Mormons to help them fight the growing influence of homosexual activists and other equally unsavory groups that were gaining influence (with the help of the UN) in their developing countries.

I'm not denying that certain factions of Muslims (and Christians for that matter) are bad. But I have a hard time believing your claim.

What personal experience do you have with these people?

I investigate their terroistic acts or intentions to conduct them every day.

Maybe you Mormons should be a little more appreciative of your governments efforts to protect you from this enemy. You will see the day your wish you had.

Why is this? Is the government planning to punish those who don't express the appropriate level of gratitude for having their nail clippers and hand lotion confiscated at the airport?

No such plans that I know of but there are a lot of people that give thier entire lives to ensure that the plane doesn't explode while you are on it. Isn't gratitude one of the espoused teachings of the church?

jbalm wrote:

Nice to see that you folks like the enemy better than your own government.

Nice to see that you don't realize that the some of the government, as well as some of the Muslims, are the enemy.

Enemy identification must not be your forte.

If you are interested in nothing more that parroting Republican Party platitudes, then http://www.hannity.com/ might be more to your liking. They, like you, seem intent on fomenting blind hatred when none need exist.

I have never heard one republican ever mention shirk. I am not fomenting hate nor do I hate muslims. I am just relating facts that I feel are pertinet to understanding what muslims belive and why radical muslims want to kill you. I think hanity is an idiot if you care to know. I deal with radical Islam every day. I know they are the enemy.

I am thankful for the sacrifices that many make for our nation.

I have had many military officers and enlistees contact me through my fan club and express a few things to me, that really made me stop and think.

Here are some of their thoughts:

"I signed up to protect America and the Constitution, not secure Iraqi's borders!"

"I feel like I am a world soldier rather then an American soldier. I am not protecting America's interests, it is someone else's."

"A lot of us have really questioned, what are we doing here? Is there any real purpose to it? What about our nation? What about those that need protection there? There has been good accomplished, but for the most part I wonder, why am I in this nation forcing them to make decisions?"

Now, these are paraphrases. And there are other sentiments that they had but they said they did not want me to share them because they could face court martial.

And I did post blogs about what they were willing to have me share without naming them specifically.

lundbaek wrote:Opinions expressed on this thread contribute to my sincere appreciation for the knowledge (call it testimony if you like) I have that next to and heavily influenced by Satan, certain elements in our own US FedGov, in the business world, in academia, and in the military are the greatest enemies to what is left of our constitutional republic. That testimony can stand by itself on the basis of my own experiences, observations, and studies, without needing support of others well known to many members of this forum, others who have far more credibility than any of us here. It is not based on or influenced by my military service, operations behind the Berlin Wall in the early '60's, my 12 years of living and working in Europe and the Mid-East (Israel, Libya, and Saudi Arabia), or being an intended victim of terrorist attacks. Being involved in an event does not qualify one as knowledgeable about its causes, intended results, or actual results.

It is based on awareness of the “hidden things of darkness” that I began to notice decades ago and continue to see today, which led to my personalized study of history and world events. And I guess it helps to have on a couple of occasions been guilty of participating in transfer of militarily useful technology to both Russia and China because it enhanced my career.

You are right there about the transfer of technology. I see that myself.