LDS Freedom Forum

Increasingly we are hearing and reading about the need to modify the social "security" system, and these now coming more & more from congressman/senators. Acknowledgement that SS is bankrupt will alarm all the old retirees and those soon to retire.

The social security system is indeed a ponzi scheme and like all such scams, they ultimately implode with the "late investors", left holding empty bags.

Let's use the same technique these globalists use, let's use every crisis to promote our agenda. Didn't Rahm Emanuel of B.O.'s administration say something like that?

So, whenever the idea is promoted to reduce social security benefits, the chant should rise, "Before you mess with social security, BRING ALL THE TROOPS HOME!!!" Not just from these stupid Middle East wars but from Japan, Europe (WW2 is over!) .... Bring the troops home! Bring the Troops Home!, Just shout it at them. And keep shouting it at them, use their techniques against them. Billy Clinton went on MTV when presidnet and with the communist salute of a raised fist, he urged the young listening to "shout down" those they oppose.

All the "old retired" people ought to yell such a chant at every "town hall meeting", at every political rally this election season.

Bringing the troops home works against the globalist's agenda of global governance. Bringing the troops home easily slips into, what to do with them once home? A novel idea, how about securing our southern border? Doing that likewise frustrates the ushering in of the "North American Union".

Get all these millions of old retirees motivated and on the march. They vote! We gotta at least try.

I realize that we are working with a corrupt & dumbed down populace. We therefore must use that corruption, turn it against the PTB. Use the greed of those, who have been seduced into participating in the spoils of "their" system.

How about it?

Chip45 wrote:Increasingly we are hearing and reading about the need to modify the social "security" system, and these now coming more & more from congressman/senators. Acknowledgement that SS is bankrupt will alarm all the old retirees and those soon to retire.

The social security system is indeed a ponzi scheme and like all such scams, they ultimately implode with the "late investors", left holding empty bags.

Let's use the same technique these globalists use, let's use every crisis to promote our agenda. Didn't Rahm Emanuel of B.O.'s administration say something like that?

So, whenever the idea is promoted to reduce social security benefits, the chant should rise, "Before you mess with social security, BRING ALL THE TROOPS HOME!!!" Not just from these stupid Middle East wars but from Japan, Europe (WW2 is over!) .... Bring the troops home! Bring the Troops Home!, Just shout it at them. And keep shouting it at them, use their techniques against them. Billy Clinton went on MTV when presidnet and with the communist salute of a raised fist, he urged the young listening to "shout down" those they oppose.

All the "old retired" people ought to yell such a chant at every "town hall meeting", at every political rally this election season.

Bringing the troops home works against the globalist's agenda of global governance. Bringing the troops home easily slips into, what to do with them once home? A novel idea, how about securing our southern border? Doing that likewise frustrates the ushering in of the "North American Union".

Get all these millions of old retirees motivated and on the march. They vote! We gotta at least try.

I realize that we are working with a corrupt & dumbed down populace. We therefore must use that corruption, turn it against the PTB. Use the greed of those, who have been seduced into participating in the spoils of "their" system.

How about it?

I take exception with your idea that we older folk are dumbed down and seduced into participating in the ss system. We were forced into the system, we were forced into medicare. Private insurance companies will write policies for us old folk, but they are so expensive most of us cannot afford them. For many years now, the private companies simply raise their prices on folks who reach retirement age, and force us into medicare.

I expect ss and medicare to fail, I have a contingency plan! I will be willing to die if I get sick!

Bob

My statement about being dumbed-down and seduced into participating in the spoils of "their" system points to the nation as a whole. Collectively, we elected and have re-elected socialists and big government advocates into power. We cannot escape that we, collectively, supported John McCain vs Obama when we had the choice of Chuck Baldwin running in 2008, and look at our choices over the decades, we were not forced to vote for the "lesser of two evils", we have had decent choices at times. In 1964 we had Barry Goldwater but by a huge landslide the nation choose that dirty old socialist Lyndon Baines Johnson and we got a whole alphabet soup of new welfare agencies. We chose TWICE, Bill Clinton and almost picked his wicked wife in 2008 (will she run again soon and with what success?). We picked big government Bush (1 & 2). On & on. The point is, we cannot excuse ourselves ... from the responsiblity of where we are as a nation. We have been seduced (like the Nephites of old) into participating in the spoils of the system that gadianton robbers promote. Our parents/grandparenst stole from us via social "security" taxes and we now, as we participate in the system, will steal form our children and grandchildren (else we will refuse to collect the "benefits").

Wrong again. My parents were very much against Soc. Sec. But they had to pay into the system. I have had to pay into the system all of my working life. It was suppossed to be there accruing interest for when we retired. However the government stole it and used it elsewhere. Now it's not there, and SS is broke. The only way to pay it out now is to take the money that is being paid into it by todays workers. Don't blame your parents or the older generation. Blame the powers that be in Washington.

believer wrote:Wrong again. My parents were very much against Soc. Sec. But they had to pay into the system. I have had to pay into the system all of my working life. It was suppossed to be there accruing interest for when we retired. However the government stole it and used it elsewhere. Now it's not there, and SS is broke. The only way to pay it out now is to take the money that is being paid into it by todays workers. Don't blame your parents or the older generation. Blame the powers that be in Washington.

Older generations voted in and put the powers that be in Washington that did what they did....

My parents did not vote for Roosevelt. They were against everything he stood for. And they didn't vote for Truman either. So don't think you are so superior. Your generation voted for Obama.

Chip, sorry but taking SS is not "partaking of their spoils". It is true that in earlier generations, people were able to take out that either did not contribute or had contributed very little. The vast majority of the people in the last 60 years have gotten far less out than they paid in. Even those who got more out than they paid in generally got a terrible rate of return on their FORCED investment. I'm 46, and the thousands of dollars I have poured into the system is almost certainly a COMPLETE LOSS. Like everything else the government does, they were not really concerned about taking care of the people they claimed the program would take care of. It was just another pile of money to be raided, which as I am sure you are aware they have on a massive scale. The people responsible are long dead - the only responsibility anyone alive bears is that they have not demanded that the system be abolished. Some have tried, some have proposed even an extended phase out - and those people tend to be voted out of office by the current generation of oldsters because they are fear mongered into thinking they are going to lose their benefits.

The system does need to be phased out, but of all the "entitlement" programs, it is one that people are actually entitled to since they paid into it their whole lives.

edit: I DO like the proposal in the OP. Sorry I was responding more based on responses than to your initial post - good idea!

Original Intent,

You are so right.

Not to belabor the point but .... I know there are people who opposed social "security" [me included] and yes we are all forced to pay into it and yes, we were deceived into thinking that our SS contributions were somehow creating some sort of "government IRA" type of retirement account for each of us, that we are ENTITLED" to upon retirement. But COLLECTIVELY, a majority of Americans have chosen to empower socialists and have fallen for those lies. A majority of Ameicans have fallen for the scam of "stealing from the rich". Look at how the federal income tax was first introduced and accepted by the majority. It was a "soak the rich" plan that has turned on middle America. It is as F. Hyek wrote in "The Road to Serfdom", it is like so many other articles and books that have warned about democracy and what it evolves into. We Americans (collectively speaking again) accept, in so many ways, the concept of redistributing wealth, of stealing others wealth for this "good cause" or that.

And when I write "we" I mean the majority of Americans.

Still individually, how do we act? Again, how did you vote in Nov. 2008? For McCain? For Obama? Or not all all? Or for Chuck Baldwin? In Utah, in the republican primary that same year, how did you vote? For Romney? For McCain? Or for Ron Paul? Or again, not at all?

And, the focus of my original post was not to emphasize how we have been corrupted, rather, how we might use the social "security" financial crisis as a way to motivate a strong voting block of the populace [seniors] into a force that can at least frustrate the juggernaut to a one world government. Bringing the troops home is not only a good thing in and of itself, but it also works against the globalists agenda.

Just to answer your rhetorical question, I did vote for Chuck Baldwin in the general, and I worked hard and contributed far more than I could afford to the Ron Paul primary effort (and voted for him, of course.)

believer wrote:My parents did not vote for Roosevelt. They were against everything he stood for. And they didn't vote for Truman either. So don't think you are so superior. Your generation voted for Obama.

NO intention or thoughts about being superior......

Wrong again. My parents were very much against Soc. Sec. But they had to pay into the system. I have had to pay into the system all of my working life. It was suppossed to be there accruing interest for when we retired. However the government stole it and used it elsewhere. Now it's not there, and SS is broke. The only way to pay it out now is to take the money that is being paid into it by todays workers. Don't blame your parents or the older generation. Blame the powers that be in Washington.

The only way to get all the old people off your young backs is to euthanize them with a morphine drip or put them out on the ice in the winter. Hey, the morphine drip solution is already being used. It isn't discussed 'openly'...yet.

My mother taught school for 30 years and had a pension fund which was 'raided' prior to her retirement. In her pension plan she would have had the same private medical coverage she had used all those years. She was a very healthy person, stronger than me well into her 60's.

In order to continue with her private medical coverage after she retired, she had to use her SS 'entitlement' to pay for the premiums.

When she had the stroke at age 84 that killed her a few months later, Medicare was nowhere to be seen. Turns out she would have had to have been kept in the hospital three days under doctor's orders in order for Medicare to help with any nursing home or assisted care. As it was, Medicare owed her nothing since she didn't know the rules. Right in the emergency room where the ambulance had dropped her off, I was told by the attending physican she could go home with me.

So...out of pocket costs for her nursing home care 12 years ago amounted to over $6,000 a month. Assisted care was a little less...between $2,000-$4,000 a month. I had cared for her for three years prior to the stroke. Unfortunately, I did not have the skills to care for her after the stroke.

On a teacher's salary your lifetime of frugal living doesn't generate a lot in your saving's account.

So what do you do with all those old people? Better know the 'rules' first of all.

We had also best learn some compassion. Better yet, learn how to care for your elderly parents so your children will have benefit of their wisdom. I am eternally grateful for my close association with grandparents in their declining years.

Yes, Chip45!

By all means, save our old people and our troops at the same time.

Our federal officials get to keep their 'elite' retirement & healthcare packages. Let them live on a soldier's pension and get the same care our servicemen & women receive.

Chip45, I agree that the population as a whole has been dumbed down and has accepted socialism. I did myself. However, I don't believe using "their techniques against them" is what's going to save us. The powers that be may have a better understanding of the whole picture, but they are still heavily influenced by lies, the same lies that Satan believes. They are completely self-absorbed and believe that worldly gain the honors of men are better than Heavenly Treasures. These people will not listen to anyone whose trying to get in their way.

We will be saved by the antithesis of what is causing our problem. We will be saved by righteousness. Only when we've risen up and become the saints we are supposed to be, qualified to bring Zion again to earth and establish with the Lord a society in which he can reign, doing all things in his name, will we have the power to overcome the wicked. We should focus first on becoming as righteous as possible. Then we should fight when, where, and how God directs in the political fight, knowing that though we are bound to lose more battles than we win in this wicked world, God is over all and all things will work together for our good.

We should be doing all we can to rid our lives of their techniques. No lies, force, or any other tool of Satan will work to our good. Humility, gratitude, faith, the simple things of the gospel will overthrow the wicked in the end. Our job, first of all, is to make sure we're not one of them.

Thanks for the original post chip. I think you hit the nail on the head, I imagine if the baby boomers and younger people as a large block started demanding the troops come home to save social security and secure our borders, how wonderfully this would turn on the elites heads. They would have a large block of people acting in their own self interest and national interest to save social security and our society. Could throw a wrench into their overall desires.

Too bad our wicked society cannot think beyond what they are told by TPTB.

Squally is onto something there.

We - as a People - have been intentionally 'divided' against one another. The SS system is causing increasing resentment in the younger wage earners & fear in the frail and the elderly over an uncertain future.

Instead of buying into the 'game' we are told is the only 'game' available, we need to become more righteous as Roserum advises, and unite in our efforts to actually DO what is necessary to create a world in which everyone has confidence in a future of our own making.

Yesterday, I posted the following in regard to foreign troops. Being 'righteous' does NOT preclude calling a predator "a predator".

It is NOT negative to identify a problem and seek a proper solution.

Out here on the prairie there are all kinds of birds of prey. The 'little' birds lose a few, but they have the sense to recognize a threat when it presents itself. Just today I saw several bands of small birds attacking hawks in various places over our land. Sometimes one or two will grab ahold of the hawk's neck feathers and 'ride' him whilst the others dive bomb and 'escort' him in a direction away from their shared nesting area.

They aren't afraid to call a predator 'a predator' and they will not hesitate to assert themselves in protecting what is theirs.

I've never seen the 'little' birds actually kill a hawk, an eagle, or an owl. And, I do not believe they are 'tools of Satan' for defying the predators or for defending themselves against them. They seem extraordinarily 'righteous' to me.

buffalo_girl wrote:Squally is onto something there.

We - as a People - have been intentionally 'divided' against one another. The SS system is causing increasing resentment in the younger wage earners & fear in the frail and the elderly over an uncertain future.

Instead of buying into the 'game' we are told is the only 'game' available, we need to become more righteous as Roserum advises, and unite in our efforts to actually DO what is necessary to create a world in which everyone has confidence in a future of our own making.

Yesterday, I posted the following in regard to foreign troops. Being 'righteous' does NOT preclude calling a predator "a predator".

It is NOT negative to identify a problem and seek a proper solution.







Out here on the prairie there are all kinds of birds of prey. The 'little' birds lose a few, but they have the sense to recognize a threat when it presents itself. Just today I saw several bands of small birds attacking hawks in various places over our land. Sometimes one or two will grab ahold of the hawk's neck feathers and 'ride' him whilst the others dive bomb and 'escort' him in a direction away from their shared nesting area.

They aren't afraid to call a predator 'a predator' and they will not hesitate to assert themselves in protecting what is theirs.

I've never seen the 'little' birds actually kill a hawk, an eagle, or an owl. And, I do not believe they are 'tools of Satan' for defying the predators or for defending themselves against them. They seem extraordinarily 'righteous' to me.

I love reading your posts B.G., you make so much sense. Do you do any ghost writing, as in historical fiction, anything like that?

In the early 1980's Jo and I attempted to leave the SS system. At the time we were doing very well with our investments, getting a return of over 24% per year. We wanted to add the money SS was taking to our investment portfolio, which was based mainly on metals stocks, precious metals companies, specifically several in Nevada, to our portfolio. So we sent a letter to the SS people asking for that release. There was a long delay in receiving an answer, when we did receive it, we were told that congress had passed a law preventing us from leaving the "SS". I was furious, I fired off a letter to the SS administration telling them what I thought, what the decision was costing me in interest and dividend income, and why I felt the term "SS" was very appropriate in their case.

The note I received back simple said "talk to your congressmen and senators." We didn't pass the law, they did! And, "WE" (them) do not appreciate being compared to the German SS.

I have always been a conservative voter, but I have never seen the wisdom in voting for people like Ron Paul, the good person that he is, had absolutely no chance to win. A "feel good" vote??? I'm not into that! I know not every politician will echo all my concerns, so I'll vote for the guy closest to my convictions whom I feel has a chance to win, and pray he does the right thing, according to "my" values. I'm often disappointed, but I refuse to turn to "feel good voting" just so I can "retain" my right to complain, or "claim" with righteous indignation, "I" didn't vote for that bum!

I love the Tea Party movement, but the second that movement decides to become a third party "I'm" gone, that's preciously what the ptb's want to happen! We take over the Republican party, hey folks, I'm into that!

Nephi in Helaman, standing upon his tower, spoke his piece. You'll note, the political ptb's of his day were "afraid" of the people. Thats where "they" need to be now, make the ptb's of our country fear "us", the people.

The ptb's already have great fear of the Tea Party movement, thats why they are attacking it so much venom! We'd be wise to not counter attack with venom, we counter attack by demonstrating their absurdity with absurdity! We don't carry signs such as one I saw at that declared "Somewhere in Kenya, a village is missing its idiot!" We carry signs that declare, "This sign is not raciest, and neither are we!"

Ok, off my soap box! The "SS" is alive and well today? Apparently so, I get a check every month-- In the 1980's I figured there was no chance the SS would still be around when I retired! Now it pays my tithing, fast offerings and a bit to the Perpetual Education Fund!

Bob

Buffalo Girl and Bob,

There is great wisdom in what you say.


Believer