LDS Freedom Forum

I don't believe in unending suffering for the wicked either, ChelC.

I do believe that everyone will be given a degree of glory, and as Joseph Smith said, the lowest degree of telestial glory is so wonderful that if people saw it they would commit suicide to go there. And I believe this as with all degrees of glory is a gift that we could not attain on our own.

I also believe that there is a Final judgement after the second ressurection. I believe up until that point there will be repentance and every opportunity to receive as much light and knowledge as we are capable of. There will be some that will be suffering for their unrepented sins. All of that ends at Final judgement. No more suffering. No more repentance. People will be assigned to the Kingdom based on their acts in this life and the repentance/learning/punishment they have gone thru in the post-mortal world.

Bob says what part of "all" don't we understand...I would ask what part of Final does he not understand? If we are able to progress between Kingdoms beyond Final judgement, would someone not have to judge if they were ready to progress? I think so.

All do partake of salvation. They partake of it thru the ressurection of the flesh, and they also partake of it from whatever degree of glory they attain, because they could not have attained it without the atonement. But the doctrine that all will eventually partake of exaltation - that is the philosophy of (a) man, mingled with (very tortured interpretation of) scripture. He takes words of prophets denouncing the doctrine he is promoting, and he alters their words and then claims that they are agreeing with him!

http://www.gapages.com/opportunity.htm

I was going to pull out a few quotes but really the entire talk from, at the current time, Elder Joseph Fielding Smith are too great not to share all of the talk.

Alma 42 has a lot on this topic, here is a link:
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/alma/42

ChelC wrote:To me this is like saying, if everyone will eventually graduate, why am I bothering learning to read!

I see your point, but this only makes sense if mortal life was eternal and lasted forever. Why hold it against someone for wanting to do things other than reading, when after they graduate they will have forever and ever to be educated? What is a few years against infinity? Again, I'm playing devil's advocate because it doesn't seem right to me.

ChelC wrote:Perfect justice in my mind doesn't involve infinite suffering as the price for inflicting finite suffering.

This is true: D&C 19: 6-7, 10-12;

6 Nevertheless, it is not written that there shall be no end to this torment, but it is written endless torment.
7 Again, it is written eternal damnation; wherefore it is more express than other scriptures, that it might work upon the hearts of the children of men, altogether for my name’s glory.
10 For, behold, the mystery of godliness, how great is it! For, behold, I am endless, and the punishment which is given from my hand is endless punishment, for Endless is my name. Wherefore—
11 Eternal punishment is God’s punishment.
12 Endless punishment is God’s punishment.

bobhenstra wrote:Your post is speaking of Lucifer and his followers sometimes referred to as the sons of perdition, Our Lord himself says "He save "all" except the sons of perdition!" He cannot lie!

During the millennium when satan and his followers are bound, what do you suppose we'll be doing with them, is it possible we might be teaching them? Is there the possibility that they can cease to be sons of perdition? Is "your" heavenly Father smart enough to have allowed for that contingency? MY Heavenly Father is! Just wondering what you think!

Bob

....it's not a smart enough issue.....it's an agency and consequences issue! .....as in cast out.... also an issue of opposites....like trying to get the poles of a magnet together!

And their hearts are corrupt, and full of wickedness and abominations; and they love darkness rather than light, because their deeds are evil; therefore they will not ask of me.

Satan stirreth them up, that he may blead their souls to destruction.

And thus he has laid a cunning plan, thinking to destroy the work of God; but I will require this at their hands, and it shall turn to their shame and condemnation in the day of judgment.

Yea, he stirreth up their hearts to anger against this work.

Yea, he saith unto them: Deceive and lie in wait to catch, that ye may destroy; behold, this is no harm. And thus he flattereth them, and telleth them that it is no sin to lie that they may catch a man in a lie, that they may destroy him.

And thus he flattereth them, and leadeth them along until he draggeth their souls down to hell; and thus he causeth them to catch themselves in their own snare.

And thus he goeth up and down, to and fro in the earth, seeking to destroy the souls of men.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, wo be unto him that lieth to deceive because he supposeth that another lieth to deceive, for such are not exempt from the justice of God.

Now, behold, they have altered these words, because Satan saith unto them: He hath deceived you—and thus he flattereth them away to do iniquity, to get thee to tempt the Lord thy God.

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/10/21#21

...like enticing Cain to offer up an improper offering (Cain's pride) knowing it would be refused then stimulating the wrath and jealousy of Cain (through oath) to slay his brother....thus leading Cain to become a Son of Perdition. Now of course Cain had stimulus....nonetheless his heart desired those things or he wouldn't have gone down that path.

Ultimately we will all receive what we desire in life....and most likely the life here after. The reality is there will be a good portion that flat just don't desire the Celestial kingdom.....why - "he who is greatest is the servant of all". Selfishness vs. selflessness. You can't have it both ways. Opposite ends of the spectrum....opposite ends of the magnet!

Hard to accept when a child strays....but the reality is each individual has the power (agency) to make their own choices and go down the path their heart desires. Hearts can change and repentance can happen....but the further you go down a path....the harder it is to retrace your steps! So basically its not an issue with Heavenly Father....its an issue with each of us as individuals and what we ultimately desire!

ithink wrote:

ndjili wrote:Last month our Stake PResident talked to the priesthood holders and warned them about spreading this very false doctrine. This and the ideal that if we are sealed to our parents and they live righteously they can claim us, with the idea that they can save us so we dont have to do anything. HE says these ideals are factoring into the large numbers of young adults who go out into the world with the eat drink and be merry idea. The subtle twists are really causing a lot of harm in our church.

I do think that people will get the chance to repent up until the resurrection and judgement. We will get every opportunity yes, but once we have been judged that's it.

It's not false. After they pay the price for their own sins, they get a reward according to their works in the flesh. They get a lesser prize, but are "saved" nevertheless.

I think, please read the scripture more carefully. Are you suggesting "you" know the amount of works needed to be saved in the Celestial Kingdom, forgetting Salvation is a "gift" and is not based on works, but grace? After we are cleansed, before the resurrection we will be "judged" only by our good works, we learn love for our fellow man, we become Saviors on Mt Zion, we help them, but we are not saved because of all those good works. We are save because Salvation is a gift. Our past sins, our present works will have no bearing in the matter, Christ, who will do the judging has promised he will remember those sins no more, he cannot lie. We simply must believe him, he cannot lie!

Please look at this scripture again: In Doctrine and Covenants Section 138 the Lord says this concerning the wicked: 58 The dead who repent (as they repent) will be redeemed, through obedience to the ordinances of the house of God, (Temple)
59 And after they have paid the penalty of their transgressions, and are
washed clean, shall receive a reward according to their works, for they are heirs of salvation. (Doctrine and Covenants 138:58-59)

They will receive their reward for their works "after they are washed clean" they can be judged only by their good works, they have been forgiven of their bad works (sins). Also, the reward has nothing to do with salvation. Salvation is a gift, "the greatest of all the gifts of God!" The rewards received has to do with another aspect of the gospel, forgiveness!

Bob

bobhenstra wrote:

ithink wrote:

ndjili wrote:Last month our Stake PResident talked to the priesthood holders and warned them about spreading this very false doctrine. This and the ideal that if we are sealed to our parents and they live righteously they can claim us, with the idea that they can save us so we dont have to do anything. HE says these ideals are factoring into the large numbers of young adults who go out into the world with the eat drink and be merry idea. The subtle twists are really causing a lot of harm in our church.

I do think that people will get the chance to repent up until the resurrection and judgement. We will get every opportunity yes, but once we have been judged that's it.

It's not false. After they pay the price for their own sins, they get a reward according to their works in the flesh. They get a lesser prize, but are "saved" nevertheless.

I think, please read the scripture more carefully. Are you suggesting "you" know the amount of works needed to be saved in the Celestial Kingdom, forgetting Salvation is a "gift" and is not based on works, but grace? After we are cleansed, before the resurrection we will be "judged" only by our good works, we learn love for our fellow man, we become Saviors on Mt Zion, we help them, but we are not saved because of all those good works. We are save because Salvation is a gift. Our past sins, our present works will have no bearing in the matter, Christ, who will do the judging has promised he will remember those sins no more, he cannot lie. We simply must believe him, he cannot lie!

Please look at this scripture again: In Doctrine and Covenants Section 138 the Lord says this concerning the wicked: 58 The dead who repent (as they repent) will be redeemed, through obedience to the ordinances of the house of God, (Temple)
59 And after they have paid the penalty of their transgressions, and are
washed clean, shall receive a reward according to their works, for they are heirs of salvation. (Doctrine and Covenants 138:58-59)

They will receive their reward for their works "after they are washed clean" they can be judged only by their good works, they have been forgiven of their bad works (sins). Also, the reward has nothing to do with salvation. Salvation is a gift, "the greatest of all the gifts of God!" The rewards received has to do with another aspect of the gospel, forgiveness!

Bob

Let's not mix up salvation (kingdom of glory) and exaltation (highest degree of Celestial Kingdom).....

bobhenstra wrote:

ithink wrote:

ndjili wrote:Last month our Stake PResident talked to the priesthood holders and warned them about spreading this very false doctrine. This and the ideal that if we are sealed to our parents and they live righteously they can claim us, with the idea that they can save us so we dont have to do anything. HE says these ideals are factoring into the large numbers of young adults who go out into the world with the eat drink and be merry idea. The subtle twists are really causing a lot of harm in our church.

I do think that people will get the chance to repent up until the resurrection and judgement. We will get every opportunity yes, but once we have been judged that's it.

It's not false. After they pay the price for their own sins, they get a reward according to their works in the flesh. They get a lesser prize, but are "saved" nevertheless.

I think, please read the scripture more carefully. Are you suggesting "you" know the amount of works needed to be saved in the Celestial Kingdom, forgetting Salvation is a "gift" and is not based on works, but grace? After we are cleansed, before the resurrection we will be "judged" only by our good works, we learn love for our fellow man, we become Saviors on Mt Zion, we help them, but we are not saved because of all those good works. We are save because Salvation is a gift. Our past sins, our present works will have no bearing in the matter, Christ, who will do the judging has promised he will remember those sins no more, he cannot lie. We simply must believe him, he cannot lie!

Please look at this scripture again: In Doctrine and Covenants Section 138 the Lord says this concerning the wicked: 58 The dead who repent (as they repent) will be redeemed, through obedience to the ordinances of the house of God, (Temple)
59 And after they have paid the penalty of their transgressions, and are
washed clean, shall receive a reward according to their works, for they are heirs of salvation. (Doctrine and Covenants 138:58-59)

They will receive their reward for their works "after they are washed clean" they can be judged only by their good works, they have been forgiven of their bad works (sins). Also, the reward has nothing to do with salvation. Salvation is a gift, "the greatest of all the gifts of God!" The rewards received has to do with another aspect of the gospel, forgiveness!

Bob

Jason wrote:Let's not mix up salvation (kingdom of glory) and exaltation (highest degree of Celestial Kingdom).....

We do not receive exaltation by grace alone, but a combination of grace and our works. We go to one of the kingdoms of glory based on grace, which one depends on our works.

Also, while salvation can be used to mean the same thing as exaltation, that is only one definition.

This was in the same New Era April 1971 Q&A article from Bruce R. McConkie as your quote Bob, about two paragraphs beneath it. Hope it helps.

Although salvation means eternal life, we have such special usages as the following:

1. Unconditional or general salvation.

This salvation is immortality. It means to be resurrected and go to any of the kingdoms of glory. It refers to being saved from death, hell, the devil, and endless torment. And it comes to all men except the sons of perdition.

2. Conditional or individual salvation.

By this is sometimes meant salvation in the celestial kingdom, which is reserved for those who obey the laws and ordinances of the gospel, although in the full sense it is limited to those who gain exaltation in the highest heaven of the celestial world.

3. Salvation by grace alone.

This is the same as unconditional or general salvation, the added name signifying that the salvation involved comes by the grace of God, gospel obedience not being required; that is, it comes through the love, mercy, and condescension of God.

4. Salvation by grace coupled with obedience.

All men are raised in immortality by the grace of God; those who believe and obey his laws are raised also unto eternal life.

5. Celestial, terrestrial, or telestial salvation.

These refer to inheritances in these respective kingdoms of glory.

If anyone wants it, here is a link to the full Q&A: http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?h ... 82620aRCRD

Jason wrote:
Let's not mix up salvation (kingdom of glory) and exaltation (highest degree of Celestial Kingdom).....

Salvation "IS" the highest degree of the Celestial kingdom! Joseph defined Salvation for us; and no being can possess it but himself  or one like him."
Bob

Again, I have no arguments with all the quotes so generously supplied above, they are true "if" understood correctly. I do not agree with the "traditions of the fathers" interpretation of those statements, Why? Because those common interpretations, and there are several, do not agree with the Lords truth stated through his prophets about Salvation, nor the Prophet Joseph Smith's definition of Salvation. I'll repeat a few of those here; (There are well over a thousand)

This is a very clear definition of salvation.

The Prophet Joseph; "Salvation consists in the glory, authority, majesty, power and dominion which Jehovah possesses and in no thing else; and no being can possess it but himself, or one like him."

I speak of the master teacher, even Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Savior and Redeemer of all mankind.
(Elder Thomas S. Monson, Conference Report, April 1970, Afternoon Meeting 99.)


If he was the firstborn and obedient to the laws of his Father, did he not inherit the position by right to be the representative of God, the Savior and Redeemer of the world? And was it not his peculiar right and privilege as the firstborn, the legitimate heir of God, the Eternal Father, to step forth, accomplish, and carry out the designs of his Heavenly Father pertaining to the redemption, salvation, and exaltation of man?
(John Taylor, The Gospel Kingdom: Selections from the Writings and Discourses of John Taylor, selected, arranged, and edited, with an introduction by G. Homer Durham [Salt Lake City: Improvement Era, 1941], 115.)

Joseph Smith established the true definition of salvation, the words of any other prophet that are interpreted to mean anything other than what Joseph Smith defined is wrong. To be clear; the words of the prophets after Joseph are not wrong, the private interpretation of their words is wrong. The correct definition has been with the True Church from the beginning. Why don’t we know that true definition? Because we won’t search the prophets, the scripture, we won’t study, we just read, interpret to our own understanding and forget!

Have you heard that "Every knee shall bend, every tongue confess that Jesus is the Christ?" It would seem some here do not believe Our Lord. He’s the one who made that statement, and it has been repeated several hundred times by latter-day prophets.

The prophets have told us salvation, eternal life, and exaltation, are synonyms, all three words mean the same thing. Since the beginning of the True Church Joseph Smith taught it that way. The atonement of Jesus Christ has paid the price of the sins of all mankind. The Lord himself has said; “I am the savior and redeemer of “all” mankind”.

There are three degrees of glory in the Celestial Kingdom. In the temple we are "moved" by commandment through the kingdoms not by our own merit, but by the merits and commandments of Christ. As has been said many times, we cannot earn our own exaltation! Only by repenting, being forgiven, being baptized, receiving the Holy Ghost, and enduring to the end can we be in position to receive the gift. That's it, that's "all we can do. our own salvation “depends” upon the gift!" Any and all good works we accomplish in mortality is rewarded in mortality. Our Father in Heaven through his only begotten son in the flesh, our Lord Jesus Christ, our justifier, sanctifier, our redeemer and Savior do the rest. Salvation is a gift, already paid for by he who gives the gift, Jesus Christ.

Does this mean we have no need of accomplishing "good works?" Not in the least. Good works are a necessary component of repentance, we are forgiven of sins as we do good works, King Benjamin explained our rewards are immediately received. Hugh Nibley was fond of saying this about salvation, "The lunch is free, but work we must!" Why? To stay clean!

(18) Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. (Isaiah 1:18.)

Though their sins be as scarlet, they may become white as the driven snow (see Isa. 1:18), and the Lord has promised he would remember their sins no more (see D&C 58:42).
(Repentance Page 64.)

Our Lord said: "I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins" (Isaiah 43:25).
 
 
Boyd K. Packer, The formula is stated in forty words: "Behold, he who has repented of his sins, the same is forgiven, and I, the Lord, remember them no more. By this ye may know if a man repenteth of his sins-behold, he will confess them and forsake them." (D&C 58:42-43.) I know of no more beautiful words in all of revelation than these. "The same is forgiven, and I, the Lord, remember them no more." (Things of the Soul, page115.)

And for you Jason;

Neil A Maxwell, Some are so proud they never learn of obedience and spiritual submissiveness. They will have very arthritic knees on the day when every knee shall bend. There will be no gallery then to play to; all will be participants! (Ensign, May 1987, p. 70.)

President Kimball, May I repeat, the time will come when there will be a surrender of every person who has ever lived on this earth, who is now living, or who ever will live on this earth; and it will be an unforced surrender, an unconditional surrender. When will it be for you? Today? In twenty years? Two hundred years? Two thousand or a million? When? Again, to you, --- I say, it is not if you will capitulate to the great truth; it is when, for I know that you cannot indefinitely resist the power and pressure of truth. Why not now? Much time has been lost. The years ahead can be far more glorious for you than any years in the past. (Spencer W. Kimball. Sept Ensign, 1978. Messages of the First Presidency)

Boyd K. Packer, Nowhere is the generosity and kindness and mercy of God more manifest than in repentance. Do you understand the consummate cleansing power of the atonement made by the Son of God, our Savior, our Redeemer, who said, "I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent"? (D&C 19:16.) I know of no sin connected with transgression of the moral law which cannot be forgiven, assuming, of course, full and complete repentance. I do not exempt abortion.. (Things of the Soul)

We repent and accomplish good work so we may be forgiven of our sins. Salvation is a gift, "the greatest of all the gifts of God"

(Doctrine and Covenants 6:13.) If thou wilt do good, yea, and hold out faithful to the end, thou shalt be saved in the kingdom of God, which is the greatest of all the gifts of God; for there is no gift greater than the gift of salvation.

Bob

The full quote!

Answer/President Bruce R. McConkie

Salvation is exaltation. That is the sum and substance of the whole matter.

Salvation is eternal life. It is an inheritance in the highest heaven of the celestial world, the only place the family unit continues. It consists of the continuation of the family unit forever in glorious exaltation in the kingdom of God. It consists of the fullness of glory of the Father and of a continuation of the seeds forever and ever. It is not a lower or lesser state than that reserved for those who become as God is. It is godhood.

I know of only three places in all the revelations where salvation is defined to mean something less than the fullness of eternal glory in the presence of the Father and the Son. These instances, and their consequent limited usage of the term, have been given to us so we will have an overall perspective of the whole plan of salvation. All other scriptural passages use salvation as a synonym for eternal life or exaltation to hold up before us the high reward promised those who love and serve God with all their hearts.

Although salvation means eternal life, we have such special usages as the following:

1. Unconditional or general salvation.

This salvation is immortality. It means to be resurrected and go to any of the kingdoms of glory. It refers to being saved from death, hell, the devil, and endless torment. And it comes to all men except the sons of perdition.

2. Conditional or individual salvation.

By this is sometimes meant salvation in the celestial kingdom, which is reserved for those who obey the laws and ordinances of the gospel, although in the full sense it is limited to those who gain exaltation in the highest heaven of the celestial world.

3. Salvation by grace alone.

This is the same as unconditional or general salvation, the added name signifying that the salvation involved comes by the grace of God, gospel obedience not being required; that is, it comes through the love, mercy, and condescension of God.

4. Salvation by grace coupled with obedience.

All men are raised in immortality by the grace of God; those who believe and obey his laws are raised also unto eternal life.

5. Celestial, terrestrial, or telestial salvation.

These refer to inheritances in these respective kingdoms of glory.

However, almost without exception, when the scriptures speak of salvation, they mean full salvation; they mean eternal life or exaltation; and all of these terms are completely, totally, and wholly synonymous.

Eternal life is the name of the kind of life that God lives. Hence, the revealed statements: “… eternal life … is the greatest of all the gifts of God” (D&C 14:7); and, “… there is no gift greater than the gift of salvation” (D&C 6:13), for there is nothing greater than God and the life that he lives.

Exaltation is an inheritance in the highest heaven of the celestial world, where the family unit continues and where those who so obtain receive the fullness of the glory of the Father and have a continuation of the seeds forever and ever. (See D&C 132:19–24.)

Joseph Smith defined salvation by saying, “Salvation consists in the glory, authority, majesty, power and dominion which Jehovah possesses and in nothing else; and no being can possess it but himself or one like him.”

Speaking of the nature of salvation, the Prophet taught that it was to be “like unto” Christ, “and he was like the Father, the great prototype of all saved beings; and for any portion of the human family to be assimilated into their likeness is to be saved; and to be unlike them is to be destroyed; and on this hinge turns the door of salvation.” (See Lectures on Faith, pp. 63–67.)

These teachings of Joseph Smith are in thought-content the same as the Book of Mormon pronouncement wherein the resurrected Lord says of saved beings: “… ye shall be even as I am, and I am even as the Father; and the Father and I are one.” (3 Ne. 28:10.)

Thus, in the full, true, and accurate sense of the word, salvation, eternal life, and exaltation are all one—they mean to go where God is and to be like him!


My sediments exactly!

Bob

bobhenstra wrote:And for you Jason;

Neil A Maxwell, Some are so proud they never learn of obedience and spiritual submissiveness. They will have very arthritic knees on the day when every knee shall bend. There will be no gallery then to play to; all will be participants! (Ensign, May 1987, p. 70.)

President Kimball, May I repeat, the time will come when there will be a surrender of every person who has ever lived on this earth, who is now living, or who ever will live on this earth; and it will be an unforced surrender, an unconditional surrender. When will it be for you? Today? In twenty years? Two hundred years? Two thousand or a million? When? Again, to you, --- I say, it is not if you will capitulate to the great truth; it is when, for I know that you cannot indefinitely resist the power and pressure of truth. Why not now? Much time has been lost. The years ahead can be far more glorious for you than any years in the past. (Spencer W. Kimball. Sept Ensign, 1978. Messages of the First Presidency)

Boyd K. Packer, Nowhere is the generosity and kindness and mercy of God more manifest than in repentance. Do you understand the consummate cleansing power of the atonement made by the Son of God, our Savior, our Redeemer, who said, "I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent"? (D&C 19:16.) I know of no sin connected with transgression of the moral law which cannot be forgiven, assuming, of course, full and complete repentance. I do not exempt abortion.. (Things of the Soul)

We repent and accomplish good work so we may be forgiven of our sins. Salvation is a gift, "the greatest of all the gifts of God"

(Doctrine and Covenants 6:13.) If thou wilt do good, yea, and hold out faithful to the end, thou shalt be saved in the kingdom of God, which is the greatest of all the gifts of God; for there is no gift greater than the gift of salvation.

Bob

I'm gonna have to dwell on this for awhile.....

There is a difference between salvation and exaltation. Yes you are correct we will all receive the gift of salvation when we repent and are washed clean. We will not all receive the gift of exaltation.

"To be saved—or to gain salvation—means to be saved from physical and spiritual death. Because of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, all people will be resurrected and saved from physical death. People may also be saved from individual spiritual death through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, by their faith in Him, by living in obedience to the laws and ordinances of His gospel, and by serving Him.

To be exalted—or to gain exaltation—refers to the highest state of happiness and glory in the celestial realm. These blessings can come to us after we leave this frail and mortal existence. The time to prepare for our eventual salvation and exaltation is now." Elder Russell M. Nelson

Bob,
Just because 'every knee shall bow' does not mean they will then all receive Exaltation or even the Celestial Kingdom. Everyone must eventually repent & come to believe in Christ, even if they do so in Spirit Prison & it's too late for them to earn all they could have, had they done it sooner in mortal life.

It is interesting that you left out the most important part of the quote you put up by Brigham Young.
Which reads:
"The faith & faithfulness of father & mother will not save disobedient children. Salvation is an individual matter & if a person who has been born under the covenant rebels & denies the Lord, he will lose the blessings of Exaltation. Every soul will be judged according to his works & the wicked cannot inherit Eternal Life. We cannot force salvation upon those who do not want it. Even our Father's children had their agency before this life & 1/3 of them rebelled. ...But children born under the covenant, who drift away, are still the children of their parents, & the parents have claim upon them & if the children have not sinned away all their rights, the parents may be able to bring them, through repentance, into the Celestial Kingdom, but not to receive the Exaltation."
Discourses of Brigham Young, p. 208.

Even this power for valiant parents to help bring children into the Celestial Kingdom to live single there, will be very rare, for it requires a huge sacrifice & very high standard of righteousness on the parents part to be worthy of such power. So no one can ever expect to be given alittle help to the C.K by their parents.

We must all prove ourselves worthy of Exaltation now if we want to receive it later.

Here is another witness by Brigham Young.

"I tell you here, now, in the persence of the Almighty God,... If you obtain a wife, it is by mere permission, to see what you will do, how you will act, whether you will conduct yourself in righteousness in that holy estate. Take care! Elders of Isreal, be cautious! or you will lose your wives & your children. If you abuse your wives, turn them out of doors, & treat them in a harsh & cruel manner, you will be left wifeless & childless; you will have no increase in eternity. You will have bartered this blessing, this privilege, away; you will have sold your birthright, as Esau did his blessing, & it can never come to you again, never, no never."
Brigham Young, JD 1:119-120.

Also, Presidents of the Church since Joseph Smith can & have given us more truth & more revelation to add to that which Joseph taught. It is not merely their opinions, it is the word of the Lord. Joseph didn't teach us everything, the people were not ready for it, Heavenly Father has given us much more since then.

Amore, it is clear you aren;t understanding what Brigham REALLY meant, or you would agree with Bob!

I also believe that there is a Final judgement after the second ressurection. I believe up until that point there will be repentance and every opportunity to receive as much light and knowledge as we are capable of. There will be some that will be suffering for their unrepented sins. All of that ends at Final judgement. No more suffering. No more repentance. People will be assigned to the Kingdom based on their acts in this life and the repentance/learning/punishment they have gone thru in the post-mortal world.

totally agree.

Also just cause the child is sealed to you doesnt mean you can save them, who's going to make the unrepentant repent....force...hum who does that sound like....

if God is the same now, then and always then surely he should provide a way back for satan and all his followers those of the flesh and those of spirit, just like for the all those who are on earth now, according to this thinking.

I mean I'm pretty sure that Adam and Eve kept their covenants and I'm 100% sure they lost at least one child.


Me thinks that people with unrepentant children cling to certain false ideals. Again I believe those children will get a chance before the FINAL judgement but no one can make people repent. It must be from their heart and sincere and not from ours. This is truly the hardest time to raise children.

Original_Intent wrote:Amore, it is clear you aren;t understanding what Brigham REALLY meant, or you would agree with Bob!

This the last I have to add to the quotes and posts I have provided on this subject.

It's clear that there are 2 opposing stances on this issue.

Camp1: States that not all of God's children will receive Celestial Glory

Camp2: States that ALL of God's children will receive Celestial Glory.

I think it is clear that not all will receive Celestial Glory. The arguments for both sides are now just repeating the all ready stated arguments in the defense of each view.

Alma 34: 33, 35
33 And now, as I said unto you before, as ye have had so many awitnesses, therefore, I beseech of you that ye do not bprocrastinate the day of your crepentance until the end; for after this day of life, which is given us to prepare for eternity, behold, if we do not improve our time while in this life, then cometh the dnight of edarkness wherein there can be no labor performed.

This does not mean that no labor can be performed because now it is up to Christ and God to redeem us because we are dead and judged. They redeem us after all we can do and then we are judged. We can't repent after judgement. Souls can't repenet while in the Terr or Tel Kingdom. That is their degree of glory. No labor can be performed.


Heleman

38 But behold, your adays of probation are past; ye have bprocrastinated the day of your salvation until it is everlastingly too late, and your destruction is made sure;

Everlastingly too late. How can it be everlastingly too late for salvation if ALL receive salvation? According to Camp2 it is never too late. Souls have eternity to just choose to be exalted in one of the lower kingdoms because they are all ready saved, because Christ saved ALL mankind. Christ is the Savior of all mankind, but not all wil be saved because of their choices.

I do not believe that.


Why did Lucifer try to destroy the agency of man? Sure he wanted the glory, but why and to what end? Lucifer wanted to force all to come back. Why would he need to suggest such a plan if we ALL were saved? God knew that not all would return, but He could not take away our agency. Lucifer thought the plan too risky.

I promise that if we were to ask Pres. Monson this question, "will ALL God's children return to Him and receive Exaltation, he would say, 'NO'." Why? Because the scriptures and teachings of the prophets tell it that way.

bobhenstra wrote:The full quote!

Answer/President Bruce R. McConkie

Salvation is exaltation. That is the sum and substance of the whole matter.

Salvation is eternal life. It is an inheritance in the highest heaven of the celestial world, the only place the family unit continues. It consists of the continuation of the family unit forever in glorious exaltation in the kingdom of God. It consists of the fullness of glory of the Father and of a continuation of the seeds forever and ever. It is not a lower or lesser state than that reserved for those who become as God is. It is godhood.

I know of only three places in all the revelations where salvation is defined to mean something less than the fullness of eternal glory in the presence of the Father and the Son. These instances, and their consequent limited usage of the term, have been given to us so we will have an overall perspective of the whole plan of salvation. All other scriptural passages use salvation as a synonym for eternal life or exaltation to hold up before us the high reward promised those who love and serve God with all their hearts.

Although salvation means eternal life, we have such special usages as the following:

1. Unconditional or general salvation.

This salvation is immortality. It means to be resurrected and go to any of the kingdoms of glory. It refers to being saved from death, hell, the devil, and endless torment. And it comes to all men except the sons of perdition.

2. Conditional or individual salvation.

By this is sometimes meant salvation in the celestial kingdom, which is reserved for those who obey the laws and ordinances of the gospel, although in the full sense it is limited to those who gain exaltation in the highest heaven of the celestial world.

3. Salvation by grace alone.

This is the same as unconditional or general salvation, the added name signifying that the salvation involved comes by the grace of God, gospel obedience not being required; that is, it comes through the love, mercy, and condescension of God.

4. Salvation by grace coupled with obedience.

All men are raised in immortality by the grace of God; those who believe and obey his laws are raised also unto eternal life.

5. Celestial, terrestrial, or telestial salvation.

These refer to inheritances in these respective kingdoms of glory.

However, almost without exception, when the scriptures speak of salvation, they mean full salvation; they mean eternal life or exaltation; and all of these terms are completely, totally, and wholly synonymous.

Eternal life is the name of the kind of life that God lives. Hence, the revealed statements: “… eternal life … is the greatest of all the gifts of God” (D&C 14:7); and, “… there is no gift greater than the gift of salvation” (D&C 6:13), for there is nothing greater than God and the life that he lives.

Exaltation is an inheritance in the highest heaven of the celestial world, where the family unit continues and where those who so obtain receive the fullness of the glory of the Father and have a continuation of the seeds forever and ever. (See D&C 132:19–24.)

Joseph Smith defined salvation by saying, “Salvation consists in the glory, authority, majesty, power and dominion which Jehovah possesses and in nothing else; and no being can possess it but himself or one like him.”

Speaking of the nature of salvation, the Prophet taught that it was to be “like unto” Christ, “and he was like the Father, the great prototype of all saved beings; and for any portion of the human family to be assimilated into their likeness is to be saved; and to be unlike them is to be destroyed; and on this hinge turns the door of salvation.” (See Lectures on Faith, pp. 63–67.)

These teachings of Joseph Smith are in thought-content the same as the Book of Mormon pronouncement wherein the resurrected Lord says of saved beings: “… ye shall be even as I am, and I am even as the Father; and the Father and I are one.” (3 Ne. 28:10.)

Thus, in the full, true, and accurate sense of the word, salvation, eternal life, and exaltation are all one—they mean to go where God is and to be like him!


My sediments exactly!

Bob

Shadow told us how all this quote fits together, so its easily understood. Look back at his one word post!

The Shadow knows!

Bob

Prophets teach that our resurrected bodies will be different according to the glory we receive (tel. ter. cel.).

Unless you can be resurrected after being resurrected, not all can go to the Celestial Kingdom. I know that at least a few will be resurrected with a telestial body and a terrestrial body, otherwise why teach it?

Also, nobody commented on Joseph Fielding Smith's words that say the telestial progresses in one direction, the terrestrial in another, and the celestial in yet another direction. This comment cannot be turned into support for everyone eventually reaching exaltation for the telestial isn't even heading in that direction, how would you ever reach it if you're moving away from it?

If you believe this statement, the issue is settled, is it not? <-- This last question is not rhetorical.

Agree? Disagree?

Salvation corresponds to being saved in any of the 3 degrees of glory. All will eventually bow the knee and confess Jesus is the Christ and will receive salvation.

However, this is not the same as exaltation. God will not force his children to be exalted against their wills.

1. Know this, that ev’ry soul is free
To choose his life and what he’ll be;
For this eternal truth is giv’n:
That God will force no man to heav’n.

2. He’ll call, persuade, direct aright,
And bless with wisdom, love, and light,
In nameless ways be good and kind,
But never force the human mind.

3. Freedom and reason make us men;
Take these away, what are we then?
Mere animals, and just as well
The beasts may think of heav’n or hell.

4. May we no more our pow’rs abuse,
But ways of truth and goodness choose;
Our God is pleased when we improve
His grace and seek his perfect love. - Hymn 240

I believe we will be given ample opportunity to choose and understand our choice. God already knows which kingdom we are going to choose through our choices and willingness to obey and repent. Given that, it seems we could have just skipped this mortal experience and been assigned to a degree of glory based on the foreknowledge of God. However, it is the mortal experience where we gain the understanding and experience for ourselves. It may be that part of the reason there will be no kingdom jumping is because we will be at peace with our choice and comfortable with the law of the kingdom we end up in.

22 For he who is not able to abide the law of a celestial kingdom cannot abide a celestial glory.
23 And he who cannot abide the law of a terrestrial kingdom cannot abide a terrestrial glory.
24 And he who cannot abide the law of a telestial kingdom cannot abide a telestial cglory; therefore he is not meet for a kingdom of glory. Therefore he must abide a kingdom which is not a kingdom of glory.

33 For what doth it profit a man if a gift is bestowed upon him, and he receive not the gift? Behold, he rejoices not in that which is given unto him, neither rejoices in him who is the giver of the gift.
34 And again, verily I say unto you, that which is governed by law is also preserved by law and perfected and sanctified by the same.
35 That which breaketh a law, and abideth not by law, but seeketh to become a law unto itself, and willeth to abide in sin, and altogether abideth in sin, cannot be sanctified by law, neither by mercy, justice, nor judgment. Therefore, they must remain filthy still.
36 All kingdoms have a law given;
37 And there are many kingdoms; for there is no space in the which there is no kingdom; and there is no kingdom in which there is no space, either a greater or a lesser kingdom.
38 And unto every kingdom is given a law; and unto every law there are certain bounds also and conditions.
39 All beings who abide not in those conditions are not justified.

So, there is a really interesting history to the idea of Eternal Progression in our church. There are lots of quotes both for and against. The most famous conflict is probably between James E. Talmage and Joseph Fielding Smith who butted heads about this, evolution, and a few other topics. Ultimately the First Presidency instructed them to drop it after JFS asked that Talmage be disfellowshiped or excommunicated for teach false doctrine (The Essential James E. Talmage). The most recent reference that I've seen quoted that supports a neutral position on the topic is from a letter from the Secretary to the First Presidency in the 50's or 60's, stating that the Church had no official position but that various brethren and espoused belief in positions on both sides.

Suffice it to say that this is one of those points, much like Evolution that you can go either way on based on quotes from Apostles and Prophets. In the absence of a specific revelation, we don't have a definitive answer.

Incidentally, Talmage had a lecture titled "The Eternity of Sex" that deals with some of what has been discussed, it may be floating around the internet if anyone is interested.

I love this forum!!! Learn something new several times a day!

Hyrcanus wrote:So, there is a really interesting history to the idea of Eternal Progression in our church. There are lots of quotes both for and against. The most famous conflict is probably between James E. Talmage and Joseph Fielding Smith who butted heads about this, evolution, and a few other topics. Ultimately the First Presidency instructed them to drop it after JFS asked that Talmage be disfellowshiped or excommunicated for teach false doctrine (The Essential James E. Talmage). The most recent reference that I've seen quoted that supports a neutral position on the topic is from a letter from the Secretary to the First Presidency in the 50's or 60's, stating that the Church had no official position but that various brethren and espoused belief in positions on both sides.

Suffice it to say that this is one of those points, much like Evolution that you can go either way on based on quotes from Apostles and Prophets. In the absence of a specific revelation, we don't have a definitive answer.

Incidentally, Talmage had a lecture titled "The Eternity of Sex" that deals with some of what has been discussed, it may be floating around the internet if anyone is interested.

I wasn't aware of this conflict with Talmage. I wonder how two Apostles can have such different views on the same, seemingly essential, doctrine. Interesting.

Quiet Cricket wrote:

Hyrcanus wrote:So, there is a really interesting history to the idea of Eternal Progression in our church. There are lots of quotes both for and against. The most famous conflict is probably between James E. Talmage and Joseph Fielding Smith who butted heads about this, evolution, and a few other topics. Ultimately the First Presidency instructed them to drop it after JFS asked that Talmage be disfellowshiped or excommunicated for teach false doctrine (The Essential James E. Talmage). The most recent reference that I've seen quoted that supports a neutral position on the topic is from a letter from the Secretary to the First Presidency in the 50's or 60's, stating that the Church had no official position but that various brethren and espoused belief in positions on both sides.

Suffice it to say that this is one of those points, much like Evolution that you can go either way on based on quotes from Apostles and Prophets. In the absence of a specific revelation, we don't have a definitive answer.

Incidentally, Talmage had a lecture titled "The Eternity of Sex" that deals with some of what has been discussed, it may be floating around the internet if anyone is interested.

I wasn't aware of this conflict with Talmage. I wonder how two Apostles can have such different views on the same, seemingly essential, doctrine. Interesting.

If you're really interested, I highly suggest the book I mentioned "The Essential James E. Talmage". First of all it contains a ton of fascinating insights into Talmage as a man (he tried smoking marijuana with decidedly unpleasant effects ;D ), plus hearing his thoughts from his journal on some of the internal struggles within Church leadership is really enlightening as all of us seek to find the truth on challenging topics.

The book is out of print now, but you can find it on the net used pretty easy.

Edit: D. Michael Quinn writes about this too, although he has the irritating habit of inserting conjecture into the middle of what purports to be a historical account, so I don't recommend that as a primary source of information.

Forgive me for the long post, but this wasn't linkable in this format.

The Eternity of Sex.
' James E. Talmagc, of the Council of the Twelve.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints affirms as reasonable, scriptural, and true, the doctrine of the eternity of sex among the children of God. The distinction between male and female is no condition peculiar to the relatively brief period of mortal life; it was an essential characteristic of our pre-existent state, even as it shall continue after death, in both the disembodied and resurrected states.
That birth or even its antecedent, conception, in no wise marks the creation of a being who before that event did not exist, is abundantly attested by the revealed word; it is positively declared that every child born to earth lived as an individual spirit, male or female, in the primeval world. There is no accident or chance, due to purely physical conditions, by which the sex of the unborn is determined; the body takes form as male or female according to the sex of the spirit whose appointment it is to tenant that body as a tabernacle formed of the elements of earth, through which means alone the individual may enter upon the indispensable course of human experience, probation, and training.
That the vital distinction of sex characterizes life on earth cannot be questioned; its antemortal and postmortal existence may be thought by some to require demonstration.
In the first chapter of Genesis, verse 27, we read:
"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."
The next chapter makes plain
the fact that the placing of man upon the earth, clothed with a body of earthly material, was a subsequent event; thus as stated in verses 4-7:
"These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens, and every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."
As shown to Moses in vision, and as subsequently revealed to Joseph Smith, the essential facts comprised in the scriptures above quoted are set forth with somewhat greater plainness as follows:
"And I, God, created man in mine own image, in the image of mine Only Begotten created I him; male and female created I them." (Pearl of Great Price, Moses 2:27.)
Further:
"And now, behold, I say unto you. that these are the generations of the heaven and of the earth, when they were created, in the day that I, the Lord God, made the heaven and the earth. And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew. For I, the Lord God. created all things, of which I have spoken, spiritually, before they were naturally upon the face of the earth. For I, the Lord God, had not caused it to rain upon the face of the earth. And I, the Lord God, had created all the children of men: and not yet a man to till the ground; for in heaven created I them; and there was not yet flesh upon the earth, neither in the water, neither in the air; but I, the Lord God, spake, and there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. And I, the Lord God, formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul, the first flesh upon the earth, the first man also; nevertheless, all things were before created; but spiritually were they created and made accordin" to my word." (Moses 3:4-7.)
These scriptures attest a state of existence preceding mortality, in wlvch the spirit-children of God lived, doubtless with distinguishingpersonal characteristics, certainly with the distinction of sex, for "male and female created He them," spiritually, even "before they were [created] naturally upon the face 'of the earth." It is plain that this spiritual creation of mankind embraced the ent:re human family and not alone the pair ordained to be the first mortal parents of men; foi it is expressly stated that "the Lord God had created all the children of men" before a man had been placed upon the earth "to till the ground:" yea, even before the earth was tillaablc, or capable of supporting the vegetation necessary for human food.
In passing, one may inquire: Is it not in harmony with the genius of these scriptures to infer that the spirits, since known in their embodied state as the human family, lived, developed, and progressed, as sentient beings of varied degrees of intelligence and capability, within the limitations of that primeval sphere of activity: and that in due time they have been and are yet being sent to earth to gain the experiences incident to mortality? For scriptural affirmation supporting this inference, consder that marvelous revelation given to Abraham.
wherein the Lord God declared that the Divine purpose in forming the earth, from materials before existent but unorganized, was to provide a place whereon His children, then existing as spirits, could dwell, that they might be proved as to integrity and righteous effort; that among those spirit-children there were many who were relatively noble and great, and that these were chosen and fore-ordained to labors of special importance in the course of their mundane life."
The continuation of individual existence beyond the grave is even more abundantly declared, though perhaps not more specifically attested, in scripture, than is the fact of antemortal life. All Christendom professes belief in life after death, and accepts to some degree, though not infrequently in distorted form, the doctrine of the resurrection. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints proclaims the plain, simple, uncorrupted, scriptural truth of a literal resurrection of the body, bv which the spirit that had been disembodied by death will again be clothed with a tabernacle of flesh and bones identical in form with the body that was laid down. This comprises as a necessary condition the continuation of the individual existence of the spirit, as a separate and distinct being, intelligent and progressive, during the interval between death and the resurrection. The literalness of the resurrection is explicitly taught by Alma, a Nephite prophet, in the forceful declaration that in the resurrected body every limb and joint shall be restored to the possession of the spirit, and that "even a hair of the head shall not be lost, but all things shall
"See Abraham 3:21-26. For special study of the antemortal existence of the human family, see the author's "Articles nf Faith," pp. 195-199.
be restored to their proper and perfect frame*
With such defiirte word as to the actuality of a bodily resurrection, which shall come to all, righteous and sinner alike, is it conceivable that the essential differences of sex shall he eliminated ? Children of God have comprised male and female from the beginning. Man is man and woman is woman, fundamentally, unchangeably, eternally. Each is indispensable to the other and to the accomplishment of the purposes of God, the crowning glory of which is "to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." (Moses 1:39).
The status of woman in the world is a subject of present-day discussion and an element of current social unrest; it is, however, by no means a new topic. The female sex is not infrequently referred to as the weaker of the two. As gaered bv physical standards this classification may be essentially correct. And he :t said to the discredit and shame of the stronger sex, man through the centuries gone has been prone to use his superior strength to the oppression of woman. She has suffered the greatest humiliation during periods of spiritual darkness, when the Gospel of Christ was forgotten. Woman occup:es a position all her own in the eternal economv of the Creator; and in that position she is as truly sunerior to man as is he to her in his appointed place. Woman shall yet come to her own, exercising her rights and her privileges as a sanctified investiture which none shall dare profane.
It is part of woman's mission in this life to occupy a secondary posi
*Alma 40:23; read the entire chapter. For a special treatment of the "Resurrection of the Bodv." and the literalness thereof, see the author's "Articles of Faith," pp. 391-403.
tion of authority in the activities of the world, both in the home and in the affairs of public concern. Of this condition, explanation and justification may be found in the fact that in every organization, however simple or complex, there must needs be a centralization of authority, in short, a head. The secular law recognizes the husband as the head of the household, and theoretically at least holds his accountable for his administration. That many men fail in their station, that some are weak and unfit, that in particular instances the wife may be the more capable and in divers ways the better of the pair, should not be considered as evidencing impropriety or unrighteousness in the established order as a general condition. Woman should be regarded, not in the sense of privilege but of right, as the associate of man in the community of the home, and they two should form the governing head of the family institution, while to each separately pertain duties and functions which the other is less qualified to discharge. Weakness or inefficency on the part of either in specified instances must not be taken to impugn the wisdom by which the organization of the home and of society has been planned.
In the restored Church of Jesus Christ, .the Holy Priesthood is conferred, as an individual bestowal, upon men only, and this in accordance with Divine requirement. It is not given to woman to exercise the authority of the Priesthood independently ; nevertheless, in the sacred endowments associated with the ord:nances pertaining to the House of the Lord, woman shares with man the blessings of the Priesthood. When the frailities and imperfections of mortality are left behind, in the glorified state of the blessed hereafter, husband and wife
will administer in their respective stations, seeing and understanding alike, and co-operating to the full in the government of their family kingdom. Then shall woman be recompensed in rich measure for all the injustice that womanhood has endured in mortality. Then shall woman reign by Divine right, a queen in the resplendent realm of her glorified state, even as exalted man shall stand, priest and king unto the Most High God. Mortal eye cannot see nor mind comprehend the beauty, glory, and majesty of a righteous woman made perfect in the celestial kingdom of God.
Through the sure word of revealed truth we learn of the actual relationship between God and man, and that this is the literal relationship of parent to child. The spirits of men are the offspring of Deity, born in the antemortal world and endowed with the Divine birthright of eternal development and progression, in which course of advancement the life on earth is but a stage. The glorious possibilities of man's attainment are indicated in the admonition of the Lord Jesus: "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." (Matt. 5:48).
To become perfect as God is perfect is to attain the state, power, dignity, and authority of godship. Plainly there* is a way provided by which the child of God may follow the footsteps of the Father, and in time—sometime in the distant eternities—be as that Divine Father is. Even as Christ, the Only Begotten Son of God in the flesh, endured the experiences of mortality, passed the portals of death and became a resurrected Being, so the Father before Him had trodden the same path of progression from manhood to Godhood, and today sits enthroned in the heavens by right of achievement.
He is the Eternal Father and with Him, crowned with glory and majesty, is the eternal Mother. They twain are the parents of the spiritchildren for whose schooling in the lessons of mortality this earth was framed. When God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness," "male and female created He them;'' and male and female shall they be, to and beyond the resurrection, forever.
Eternal exaltation is the assured attainment of those who obey in its fulness the whole law of the Gospel of Christ; theirs it is to become like unto their Celestial Parents.
"Then shall they be Gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be Gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them." (Doctrine and Covenants 132:20).
Is there anything inconsistent, unnatural, or even surprising in the fact that offspring may develop to the status and spiritual stature of the parents? Would not the contrary be an exception to the recognized order of life? Such complete achievement, however, is possible only to children who pursue the course of development that the parents have followed,—to those only who resolutely advance, ever obedient, through struggle and strife, endurance and .suffering, denial and conquest, as those who went before had to do.
The association of man and woman in marriage may be a union for mortality only, or for this life and the hereafter, according to the authority by which the relationship is sanctioned and solemnized. A marriage contracted under human law alone, while legally binding and valid on earth, is terminated by the death-summons. This condition is expressly recognized and specified in the ordinary ritual of marriage, in the pronouncement of the officiating authority to the contract:ng parties, "Until death do you part."
To be effective and binding in the eternal worlds, the union of man and woman in marriage must be solemnized by an authority greater than any that can be established or invoked through human institutions. This superior authority must of necessity be given from the heavens, wherein its administration is to be recognized. Such is found in the Holy Priesthood only. Marriage covenants authorized and sealed by that God-given power, endure, if the parties thereto are true to their troth, not through mortal life alone,
but through time and .all eternity. Thus the worthy husband and wife who have been sealed under the everlasting covenant shall connforth in the day of the resurrection to receive their heritage of glory, immortality, and eternal lives.
It i? the blessed privilege of resurrected beings who attain an exaltation in the celestial kingdom to enjoy the glory of endless increase, to become the parents of generations of spirit-offspring, and to direct their development through probationary stages analogous to those through which they themselves have passed.
Eternal are the purposes of God; never-ending progression is provided for His children, worlds without end.