LDS Freedom Forum

http://www.independentamerican.org/2010 ... civilians/

About 40 years ago my 10 year old wife to be wore the name tags of Vietnam MIAs and cried watching TV and the news about our boys slaughtered in that Nixon/LBJ debacle. She supported the troops and wanted them to come home. It was then, at ten years old, she decided that she could never pay income taxes because they supported the undeclared (and therefore unconstitutional) immoral War in Vietnam.

We married when she was only 18. I did not know of her absolute commitment when we married. She did, however, tell me, not long AFTER we married, that if I ever filed a 1040 Income Tax Return that she would divorce me. She explained her moral deeply held reasoning and I felt the Spirit of the Lord like I never had in the past confirming that I must never file an income tax return because to do so was evil and supported an evil and anti-Christian doctrine. It was a religious conversion.

When I started down this religious path I knew only that Income taxes were evil because I felt they were evil. I knew almost nothing about the laws or court rulings or scriptures that would confirm these feelings or even how the Communist Manifesto called for a graduated Income Tax. I stopped filing strictly on faith.

Since that day I have become an expert on Satanic Income Taxes. I have also become an expert on the Satanic Federal Reserve System and how the two are tied together and inseparable in their evil. The Federal Reserve System is an unChristian abomination to the Lord.

More at the link

I wouldn't say that too loudly, Big Brother is always watching

Ever since I had my second kid I have had no tax liability. In fact I have gotten more back than what was withheld. A family of 4 making 50,000 a year basically pays no income tax. I'll make around 60,000 this year and even if I do owe some tax I'll glady render that which is Ceasers unto Ceaser and that which is the Lords unto the Lord. We do have a good infastructure in this country, good roads, clean water, etc. which I don't mind paying for. The Lord has always blessed me with extra and I have never been in want of anything.

I always admire a man who stands on principle. I wouldn't cut off my nose to spite my face though. The IRS is ruthless, I have a good friend who failed 1 year to file his income taxes (aprox 4-5,000 dollars) He is now up to 80,000 dollars in interest and fees. The IRS dosn't give a crap whether its constitutional or not.

wolfman wrote:I wouldn't say that too loudly, Big Brother is always watching

Ever since I had my second kid I have had no tax liability. In fact I have gotten more back than what was withheld. A family of 4 making 50,000 a year basically pays no income tax. I'll make around 60,000 this year and even if I do owe some tax I'll glady render that which is Ceasers unto Ceaser and that which is the Lords unto the Lord. We do have a good infastructure in this country, good roads, clean water, etc. which I don't mind paying for. The Lord has always blessed me with extra and I have never been in want of anything.

I always admire a man who stands on principle. I wouldn't cut off my nose to spite my face though. The IRS is ruthless, I have a good friend who failed 1 year to file his income taxes (aprox 4-5,000 dollars) He is now up to 80,000 dollars in interest and fees. The IRS dosn't give a crap whether its constitutional or not.

Your friend is up to how many dollars? Obviously you did not read the article. And why was your friend so foolish as to become a taxpayer?

I will say it loudly. I will proclaim my faith to the world.

I will and have shouted it from the mountain tops, on the World Wide Web, in IRS buildings, in Federal Courtrooms and to IRS agents and Department of Justice Attorneys. I am not violating the law. The Government is violating the law AND the Constitution AND is, as Elder Faust told us, establishing a civil irreligion. I have NOTHING to hide. I am sustaining the law while others allow the Constitution to be trampled under foot because they "glady render that which is Ceasers unto Ceaser" when they don't even realize that America has no Caesars but only We the People as the sovereign and in doing so fail to render unto the Lord that which is the Lord's which is the support for the Constitution of the USA.

It is our job to make sure the IRS DOES care if it is Constitutional. We the the Sovereignty. We are the responsible party.

“It is not the function of our Government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error.” Justice Jackson Concurring in America Communicators Association vs Douds, 339 U. S. 382, 442

Would you hide your light under a bushel?

How sad that you do not understand that YOU are Caesar and are to render unto yourself that which is your own and yet you would freely you give them YOUR money so you are volunteering your property to Satan worshipers.

When you say you pay nothing did you calculate the amount of Socialist Security (FICA) tax they steal from you to promote their Civic Religion of Socialism? If you work for an employer it will be about 16% of everything you worked for. That is about 7,700 FRNs that they stole from you.

In fact the Church news is writing about the problem THIS YEAR!
http://www.ldschurchnews.com/articles/5 ... dwide.html

He segued from past cases to pending litigation and spoke specifically regarding the court case of Perry v. Schwarzenegger, which challenges the Proposition 8 initiative passed by California voters in 2008 that limits marriage to being between a man and a woman.

"If these cases have left religion in the public square dazed and on the ropes," Elder Wickman said, "Perry v. Schwarzenegger, now pending in federal district court in San Francisco, threatens to deliver the knockout punch. …

"It threatens to replace man-woman marriage with genderless marriage in every state. And if such a ruling were ultimately affirmed by the United States Supreme Court, it would effectively extend that definition of marriage into every state."

Quoting from McKay (“Free Agency... A Divine Gift” 367, 378):

In conclusion, I repeat that no greater immediate responsibility rests upon members of the Church, upon all citizens of the Republic and of neighboring Republics than to protect the freedom vouchsafed by the Constitution of the United States. Let us, by exercising our privileges under the Constitution:

Preserve our right to worship God according to the dictates of our conscience,
Preserve the right to work when and where we choose...
Feel free to plan and to reap without the handicap of bureaucratic interference.
Devote our time, means, and life if necessary, to hold inviolate those laws which will secure to each individual the free exercise of conscience, the right and control of property, and the protection of life.

When you gladly submit and give the IRS your money your are not devoting your time, means and life if necessary to hold inviolate those laws that secure your right to free exercise of conscience and the right and control of YOUR property.

But it is your choice. Perhaps Michael Moore is wrong about what will happen when you are asked if you paid income taxes. But frankly, I think he is right.

Anybody else see that coming
Get him Wiik

Henmasher wrote:Anybody else see that coming
Get him Wiik

Are we to proudly proclaim the truth?

Are we not to proclaim Christ?

I have never seen a commandment to hide our beliefs so that the IRS will not see them.

I continue to stand in amazement of the Render unto Caesar statements. They have no application in America. None.

I'm glad to see you're passionate about this subject. I'm not as much. I agree with you, I would rather just roll over and pay taxes than spend my time battling things out in court. Your article has nothing to do with how much the IRS can fine my friend. I was merely making a point on how the IRS can bully. My friend hasn't paid a dime (unless you count money he has paid to hire lawyers) and is waiting for the statue of limitations to expire which will be next year or so. I don't think you've brought up any new points that I didn't learn from watching America: Freedom to Fascism, you can shout all you want, that isn't going to stop the IRS from levying your bank account if you have one, maybe you live on a farm and grow your own food and have no income, I have no idea. I do know you are being a little over-zealous about it. For you to agree with the statement about the pearly gates is equivalent to saying "If you have ever bought anything in a store you are guilty of supporting illegal taxation and you are going to hell” Which is completely illogical. I have a lot more things to worry about than being held accountable for paying taxes. I went to Iraq and fought in an illegal war and I pray to God that my sins will be answered upon the heads of Bush/Cheney. I’m glad that Christ will be my judge and not you. Judging from other post I knew my commets would anger you, I would suggest calming down a little and bear in mind what the Lord has said about contention.

I’m just curious. Are you opposed to corporate tax or solely income tax? Hypothetically, what if President Monson had spent 30 years as an IRS agent. How would you view him?

wolfman wrote:I'm glad to see you're passionate about this subject. I'm not as much. I agree with you, I would rather just roll over and pay taxes than spend my time battling things out in court. Your article has nothing to do with how much the IRS can fine my friend. I was merely making a point on how the IRS can bully. My friend hasn't paid a dime (unless you count money he has paid to hire lawyers) and is waiting for the statue of limitations to expire which will be next year or so. I don't think you've brought up any new points that I didn't learn from watching America: Freedom to Fascism, you can shout all you want, that isn't going to stop the IRS from levying your bank account if you have one, maybe you live on a farm and grow your own food and have no income, I have no idea. I do know you are being a little over-zealous about it. For you to agree with the statement about the pearly gates is equivalent to saying "If you have ever bought anything in a store you are guilty of supporting illegal taxation and you are going to hell” Which is completely illogical. I have a lot more things to worry about than being held accountable for paying taxes. I went to Iraq and fought in an illegal war and I pray to God that my sins will be answered upon the heads of Bush/Cheney. I’m glad that Christ will be my judge and not you. Judging from other post I knew my commets would anger you, I would suggest calming down a little and bear in mind what the Lord has said about contention.

I’m just curious. Are you opposed to corporate tax or solely income tax? Hypothetically, what if President Monson had spent 30 years as an IRS agent. How would you view him?

I don't live on a farm. I have bank accounts. I have never been audited. Never been harassed by the IRS. No liens. No levies.

I have no taxable income but then you probably don't either.

II fully support corporate taxation/ Corporations do not have rights. They are creations of the government and can legally be taxed to death. Senator Daniel Webster was very clear about this. Of course the Federal Government could only tax corporations that had interstate business.

If President Monson had spent 30 years with the in the German Nazi Gestapo how would you view him?

If President Monson was a practicing Atheist Communist for 30 years how would you view him?

If President Monson worked for President Bush for 8 years as his director of operations for the undeclared War in Iraq how would you view him? Would you pray your sins were placed upon President Monson's head?

But I will give you an answer. I would view him as a traitor to liberty and as anti-Christ. Not The anti-Christ, just anti-Christ.

To say what I said about the pearly gates is essentially what the Prophets and especially President Benson have said about it. If you are not in the fight against socialism you will not attain the Celestial Kingdom as you are only living the lesser parts of the gospel. but if you don't have time for it...well then I am sure the Lord will understand.

To pay a voluntary sales tax at a store is not even in the same ballpark as having to pay an income tax and file forms signed under penalty of perjury. Sales taxes are not a plank of the Communist Manifesto. You need to buy the product and in doing so you choose to pay the tax. Income tax is a different animal from sales taxes. You don't even need to identify yourself to pay a sales tax.

I pray that they will also be answered upon the heads of Bush and Cheney and every person that voted for those two Fascists.

I am glad Christ will be your judge also.

Your comments did not anger me but saddened me. I cannot even comprehend the things you allow. And if you knew that your comments would anger me then who is the one being intentionally contentious?

The Lord has said what about contention? That He came to bring the sword and not peace to the world. Captain Moroni was certainly contentious with the Lamanites and the king men. Was the Lord contentious with the money changers? Am I not to be like the Lord. Cannot I not be like the Lord by being contentious with the money changers?

And Freedom to Fascism, produced by my friend Arron Russo (he personally gave me an advanced unfinished copy), did not have anything in it about the RFRA or the dollar issue. If he had not been ill he was going to slow production and add a section but he was simply too ill and wanted to complete it before he died.

Bravo!! I'm glad to see someone who has educated themselves and recognize the CRIME of individual taxation in the US and the clear VIOLATION of the Constitution. I haven't filed a self-taxation, voluntary income report to the IRS for over 17 years.

Doing battle with the IRS is a no-win situation as the corrupt courts won't hear arguments that expose the fraud that is the tax system. When you file your tax information, you surrender to the criminal IRS, your rights that are suppose to be protected by the 4th and 5th amendments. The IRS is the enforcement arm of the FED. You are simply being "sheared" by the wolves.

When you pay your taxes... the money doesn't go to build roads or improve society. All of the money collected by the IRS goes to the FED in the form of INTEREST on the national debt.

When you pay the taxes you "owe", you make it possible for the corrupt government to continue in its corruption. You finance foreign wars. You support the murder of innocent civilians in un-necessary wars of occupation. You finance the forging of the chains of your own bondage.

This is where courage and fortitude come into play. A coward will hide behind justifications that support the theory that it is important to obey whatever rule or law a corrupt government decides is the law. It happened in Germany. It happened in China. It happened in Russia, and it is happening here in the US. When the government dictates to the people the definition of what is right or what is morality correct... well, you know what happens next.

It is always easier to take the path of least resistance. When a person is faced with a difficult decision they will almost always choose the thing that costs them the least. This is certainly true with regard to the IRS and the income tax.

Consider if every LDS person in the US suddenly decided to stop filing their income tax. Suppose the Church demanded that the IRS show the people in the US exactly were in the law it says that you must file an income tax form. What would happen? Would they provide the information requested?

It's a slippery slope to start compromising with corruption. To cooperate or partner-up with corruption makes you just a guilty as the trigger-man.

I have decided not to compromise on this issue. To me it's a moral question. Take the path of least Resistance and get by or stand firm and take the abuse. I am not paying for the chains of bondage... are you?

I think even Harry Reid agrees with Wiikwajio!

Wiikwajio,

Christ was the offender of many. He knew he would offend many Pharisees by what he said but he said it anyway. I suspected my comments would anger your because your black and white view on this is very disturbing. If it was so black and white the prophet would say: “Thus saith the Lord – Stop paying income tax.”

To me it sounds like your wife gave you an ultimatum based on an emotional reaction she had when she was 10 years old, you hearkened unto the counsel of your wife (which is very surprising considering what you wrote in the thread about women voting) and now you are trying to justify your actions.

King Limhi's people were in bondage to the Lamanites and paid a 50 percent tax. Did the Lord condemn Limhi’s people for supporting wickedness with their taxes? NO. He delivered them from bondage.

If you don’t want to file a 1040 that ‘s fine, but stop acting like anyone who thinks differently is a Satanist. You are not the voice of the Lord.

You preach false doctrine about who is eligible for the Celestial Kingdom. God is no respecter of persons. He doesn’t give you extra credit for being a US citizen. The gospel is for all of Gods children regardless of what country you live in. There is a nasty trend emerging from some LDS who live in the US thinking they are high and mighty and warping the gospel around US government policies, applying the gospel in every way shape and form to how our government runs and what does and doesn’t apply to them as a US Mormon. When Christ comes he will dwarf all governments. Switzerland is neutral. Swiss Mormons can’t vote “Republican”, does that mean they aren’t eligible for the Celestial Kingdom?

I was not referring to sales tax. I was implying that when you purchase something you are helping to employ people who pay income tax. ( Satanists, according to you)

Had President Monson worked for the IRS I would not view him any differently. My dad is a righteous man. He taught his kids the gospel, he served as a Bishop and a Temple worker. He also did his career in the Criminal Investigation Division of the IRS. He helped put a lot of in jail. Evil people running MAJOR scams like selling fake parts to Boeing that were causing planes to crash left and right in the late 80’s. The people he helped prosecute weren’t failing to file a 1040 , they were taking life and liberty away from people. But I guess in some twisted view you could say my dad was taking life and liberty away from the criminals. I’m not taking my dad’s side on this issue at all. I would fully support getting rid of income tax. I love RON PAUL and everything he stands for. In a recent interview he was asked if he became President would he attempt to get rid of the IRS and he said “IMMEDIETLY!”

I appreciate your honesty, but I find it disturbingly telling. My dad is not anti-Christ. Many people who feel very strongly about issues are sure that God must feel the same way. If God told me to stop paying income tax I would. If he told you to start would you? Probably not, If you would view the Prophet as anti-Christ.