LDS Freedom Forum

Pastor Chuck Baldwin does an excellent job discussing the basics as to how a Constitutional Republic can thrive and what kills it.

http://www.newswithviews.com/baldwin/baldwin600.htm

My favorite paragraph...

Accordingly, I think all this talk about "saving America" is largely a complete waste of time and energy. Instead, we need to be talking about saving our individual states (and the truth is, probably at least half of the states are beyond repair), saving our families, saving our communities, and saving our individual freedoms. To continue to focus on "saving America" or "changing Washington, D.C.," etc., is utter foolishness! Washington, D.C., is not going to change; it is beyond redemption. Forget it! Circle the wagons around your State; cement your convictions; prepare your family; ready your resolve; and start planning for life after death--the death of liberty and law in America--because the meltdown of American society and culture has already begun.

Amen.

Stephen wrote:My favorite paragraph...

Accordingly, I think all this talk about "saving America" is largely a complete waste of time and energy. Instead, we need to be talking about saving our individual states (and the truth is, probably at least half of the states are beyond repair), saving our families, saving our communities, and saving our individual freedoms. To continue to focus on "saving America" or "changing Washington, D.C.," etc., is utter foolishness! Washington, D.C., is not going to change; it is beyond redemption. Forget it! Circle the wagons around your State; cement your convictions; prepare your family; ready your resolve; and start planning for life after death--the death of liberty and law in America--because the meltdown of American society and culture has already begun.

Amen.

and Amen!!!

Interesting that he used the phrase, "Beyond redemption". Do our church leaders think so? How busy is the WA DC temple anyway?

Jason wrote:

Stephen wrote:My favorite paragraph...

Accordingly, I think all this talk about "saving America" is largely a complete waste of time and energy. Instead, we need to be talking about saving our individual states (and the truth is, probably at least half of the states are beyond repair), saving our families, saving our communities, and saving our individual freedoms. To continue to focus on "saving America" or "changing Washington, D.C.," etc., is utter foolishness! Washington, D.C., is not going to change; it is beyond redemption. Forget it! Circle the wagons around your State; cement your convictions; prepare your family; ready your resolve; and start planning for life after death--the death of liberty and law in America--because the meltdown of American society and culture has already begun.

Amen.

and Amen!!!

aaaannnnnnd Amen!!!

pritchet1 wrote:Interesting that he used the phrase, "Beyond redemption". Do our church leaders think so? How busy is the WA DC temple anyway?

Valid question. What is the answer?

Don't see what the WA DC temple has to do with anything though.

If there are enough Saints in the DC area that are doing temple work and keeping that temple busy, then DC may not be "Beyond Redemption", just those folks who aren't keeping the commandments.

I have to agree that it certainly seems like "saving America" is largely a complete waste of time and energy. However, at this point I believe we still have an responsibility and obligation to do all we can toward putting things right with the FedGov. I believe we are still held accountable for our acts in relation to our FedGov, both in the making of laws and in the administration of them. (D&C 134:1) I believe we are to "befriend" the constitutional law of the land". (D&C 98:4-7) The Lord engineered the establishment of the United States (1 Nephi 13) and prescribed the form of government He intended us to have (D&C 101:80). And I believe Chuck Baldwin believes these things as well. So I don't understand why he now suggests we give up on the United States of America.

I believe there will be a "cleansing" of America that will rid the country and perhaps the entire North American continent of persons the Lord will consider unworthy to remain on the land with the righteous remnant and the new inhabitants He will bring to this land. I also believe that those who take active part in trying to restore moral and constitutional principles to government will, to put it bluntly, be more favoured of the Lord and much better prepared to participate in the rebuilding of America than those who do not get involved.

This is why I get bent out of shape when I hear LDSs say things like we can only wait for direction from the Prophet, and/or we need to let the Lord handle things His way, etc.

We just got back from home teaching sister Barrett, who worked in the WA DC TEMPLE until April and then moved here to attend the "other" Washington Temple. ;^)

Anyway, she says the WA DC temple is packed and on Saturdays the endowments are 1/2 hour apart. She said there are lots of good Latter-day Saints back there participating in temple work. 96 language cards are used. Even a Nigerian session is done on Saturdays.

So maybe DC itself might get swallowed up, but the areas around it seem to have a sizable LDS membership population. She is also excited about the Philadelphia temple being built.

Cowboy wrote:

Jason wrote:My favorite paragraph...

Accordingly, I think all this talk about "saving America" is largely a complete waste of time and energy. Instead, we need to be talking about saving our individual states (and the truth is, probably at least half of the states are beyond repair), saving our families, saving our communities, and saving our individual freedoms. To continue to focus on "saving America" or "changing Washington, D.C.," etc., is utter foolishness! Washington, D.C., is not going to change; it is beyond redemption. Forget it! Circle the wagons around your State; cement your convictions; prepare your family; ready your resolve; and start planning for life after death--the death of liberty and law in America--because the meltdown of American society and culture has already begun.

Amen.

and Amen!!!

aaaannnnnnd Amen!!!

I agree, but we still need to do what we can to save America, but I agree that it will come down to states, communities, and families. When and if there is a complete collapse, I am sure we will have our hands full keeping folks from making another mistake, like having a con-con (can you imagine that with people's current lack of understanding, what would be the result? Not good!
We need to do what we can to educate others so there are enough "bearing the Constitution" that will make the mountain states a place worth gathering to.

I agree that we need to continue to fight...even it if it appears futile.

I feel like I'm scraping a piece of toast that is burnt black to the center...knowing full well there's nothing edible inside.

Original_Intent wrote:I agree, but we still need to do what we can to save America, but I agree that it will come down to states, communities, and families. When and if there is a complete collapse, I am sure we will have our hands full keeping folks from making another mistake, like having a con-con (can you imagine that with people's current lack of understanding, what would be the result? Not good!
We need to do what we can to educate others so there are enough "bearing the Constitution" that will make the mountain states a place worth gathering to.

Its all a matter of perspective.....and mine is that the future for America is baked in the cake at this point. Therefore my focus and priority is preparation and protection of the home-front....wish the rest the best!

Jason wrote:

Original_Intent wrote:I agree, but we still need to do what we can to save America, but I agree that it will come down to states, communities, and families. When and if there is a complete collapse, I am sure we will have our hands full keeping folks from making another mistake, like having a con-con (can you imagine that with people's current lack of understanding, what would be the result? Not good!
We need to do what we can to educate others so there are enough "bearing the Constitution" that will make the mountain states a place worth gathering to.

Its all a matter of perspective.....and mine is that the future for America is baked in the cake at this point. Therefore my focus and priority is preparation and protection of the home-front....wish the rest the best!

Agreed! We need to build our families and the Church -- while educating and spreading truth in the manner of Noah. I am sure Noah knew what was coming, but he also knew it was his duty to spread the Gospel, whether by word of mouth, print or electronic media. Yes, I believe the pre-flood earth society was as advanced as our's today. Why else use such a violent way to eradicate most terrestrial life?

The FLDS types have it right to a point -- except they do not go out and try to convert (unless I suppose they target young women). They insulate themselves from the contamination of modern society and I am sure they are more concerned with how political events worldwide are shaping up than what woman Lindsey Lohan is currently dating.

Its all a matter of perspective.....and mine is that the future for America is baked in the cake at this point. Therefore my focus and priority is preparation and protection of the home-front....wish the rest the best!

I agree, the event horizon has been crossed; It appears there is no escape from this death spiral. The government in Washington is beyond salvaging! We need to prioritize our efforts in ways that are more practical and less idealistic! Yet we must continue to fight for freedom; I believe this ongoing struggle in defense of constitutional principles will take root. These seeds will give rise to a Second American Republic. I believe this will happen, either by our efforts or the efforts of those who follow after us. Sometimes the collapse of a nation or empire is required to prevent the ongoing abuse of power, and then to set the stage for a restoration.

Stephen wrote:I agree that we need to continue to fight...even it if it appears futile.

I feel like I'm scraping a piece of toast that is burnt black to the center...knowing full well there's nothing edible inside.

Yes, but we can't give up.

"Let us suppose that it is too late to save freedom. It is still accounted unto us for righteousness' sake to stand and fight." - Ezra Taft Benson

here's one more...

President Benson outlined common excuses that we use for not getting involved in the fight for freedom. The excuses he considered false and directed by the Adversary were these:

"First: "We really haven't received much instruction about freedom" the devil says.

Second: "You're too involved in other church work," says the devil.

Third: "You want to be loved by everyone," says the devil, "and this freedom battle is so controversial you might be accused of engaging in politics."

Fourth: "Wait until it becomes popular to do so," says the devil, "or, at least until everybody in the Church agrees on what should be done."

Fifth: "It might hurt your business or your family," says the devil, "and besides why not let the Gentiles save the country? They aren't as busy as you are."

Sixth: "Don't worry," says the devil "the Lord will protect you, and besides the world is so corrupt and heading toward destruction at such a pace that you can't stop it, so why try?"

(Seventh:)"Don't do anything in the fight for freedom until the Church sets up its own specific program to save the Constitution."
- CR April 1965

Rensai wrote:here's one more...

Quote:

President Benson outlined common excuses that we use for not getting involved in the fight for freedom. The excuses he considered false and directed by the Adversary were these:

"First: "We really haven't received much instruction about freedom" the devil says.

Second: "You're too involved in other church work," says the devil.

Third: "You want to be loved by everyone," says the devil, "and this freedom battle is so controversial you might be accused of engaging in politics."

Fourth: "Wait until it becomes popular to do so," says the devil, "or, at least until everybody in the Church agrees on what should be done."

Fifth: "It might hurt your business or your family," says the devil, "and besides why not let the Gentiles save the country? They aren't as busy as you are."

Sixth: "Don't worry," says the devil "the Lord will protect you, and besides the world is so corrupt and heading toward destruction at such a pace that you can't stop it, so why try?"

(Seventh:)"Don't do anything in the fight for freedom until the Church sets up its own specific program to save the Constitution."
- CR April 1965

oh nice. most of those are me :S sad to say. I'm more along the lines of a chicken with it's head cut off. I'm not even sure where to go i'm so disoriented. and not knowledgeable about the ways of making such a difference.

great post thanks

I'm constantly being quoted "Look forward to a perfect brightness of hope" and not go negative and look at the darkness around us, but look towards the light. In other words, do not be a watchman on the tower and sound the alarm, but keep quiet. Don't rock the boat.

The thing is, we are being attacked from all sides and we are literally at war. But "others" want to pretend we are at peace. The ostriches want to keep their heads in the sand.

"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."

"Move on, there is nothing to be found here."

Our neighbors do not want to be warned.

So I move deck chairs on the sinking Titanic.

A couple of weeks ago a prominent member of our stake, in speaking about preparing for the Second Coming of the Saviour, cautioned about being influenced by what he called "conspiracy theories". I think that's good advice as long as one does not apply it to all discussion of evidences of conspiracy to rob us of our free agency. The Book of Mormon is replete with warnings about and descriptions of conspiracy to gain control over people's lives and property. And I recall President Ezra Taft Benson saying in a General Conference that there is no conspiracy in the Book of Mormon; it is conspiracy fact. I think it is important that we understand that, lest we write off all mention of conspiracy and secret combinations as irrelevant or not warranting our attention.

lundbaek wrote:A couple of weeks ago a prominent member of our stake, in speaking about preparing for the Second Coming of the Saviour, cautioned about being influenced by what he called "conspiracy theories". I think that's good advice as long as one does not apply it to all discussion of evidences of conspiracy to rob us of our free agency. The Book of Mormon is replete with warnings about and descriptions of conspiracy to gain control over people's lives and property. And I recall President Ezra Taft Benson saying in a General Conference that there is no conspiracy in the Book of Mormon; it is conspiracy fact. I think it is important that we understand that, lest we write off all mention of conspiracy and secret combinations as irrelevant or not warranting our attention.

that kind of stuff kills me. I would love to know what he considers theory. I used to think along those lines, less than a year ago. but I felt a serious sense of something terribly wrong, mostly with obama, and since then have been trying to figure things out. once i looked behind that curtain I just found multitudes of more curtains hiding stuff.

I'm all for listening to leaders, but that sort of thing leaves me wondering what exactly do they mean.

Geeswell wrote:I'm all for listening to leaders, but that sort of thing leaves me wondering what exactly do they mean.

There are a lot of strange idea's (conspiracy theories) floating around the church these days. This site is full of them From what I understand, the RKY site has even more strange ideas than this site Heck, I've set my alarm for 2am every morning this year just waiting for that semi to pick up my food storage I even had flyers printed up saying "It sucks to be you!" so when I get called out I can leave them on my neighbors doors, kinda to rub it in a bit
Lot's of theories out there! I'm sure the Priests in my ward can't wait until the Laurels can bless the sacrament too. You never know, maybe the priesthood will be taken away from the men and they can start wearing dresses instead of a suit and tie Yep, lots of theories out there!

Indeed there are conspiracy theories floating around among church members and non-members alike. But if I understand Moroni and the Lord correctly, we have a responsibility to wake up and sort out the fact from fiction, and then suffer not that the real conspirators get above us - if that isn't too much trouble.

While we must beware of conspiracy theories, I believe it was Ezra Taft Benson that said "he doesn't believe in conspiracy theories either, he believes in conspiracy facts." To ignore conspiracy theories 'facts' is to be rendered useless in the battle for freedom. The 'secret combinations' have been passed down since the time of Adam and exist today as much and more powerful than ever before. To say otherwise goes against the Book of Mormon.

I give little credibility to a member of a Stake Presidency somewhere in the country telling us not to be fooled by conspiracy theories as he has no power, keys or direction from the Lord that would convince me to believe him. It is merely his opinion and mis-guided one at that. Now if the prophet told us that, I would be apt to listen and learn, but I don't worry to much about that.

shadow wrote:

Geeswell wrote:I'm all for listening to leaders, but that sort of thing leaves me wondering what exactly do they mean.

There are a lot of strange idea's (conspiracy theories) floating around the church these days. This site is full of them From what I understand, the RKY site has even more strange ideas than this site Heck, I've set my alarm for 2am every morning this year just waiting for that semi to pick up my food storage I even had flyers printed up saying "It sucks to be you!" so when I get called out I can leave them on my neighbors doors, kinda to rub it in a bit
Lot's of theories out there! I'm sure the Priests in my ward can't wait until the Laurels can bless the sacrament too. You never know, maybe the priesthood will be taken away from the men and they can start wearing dresses instead of a suit and tie Yep, lots of theories out there!

ROFL