LDS Freedom Forum

momto5 wrote:I just hate to see how judgmental some people can be just because they have their year supply. I make no excuses for myself. We've worked slowly over the years to gather our food supply and at times we ended up using it. This last year I have felt the pressing need to gather as much as I can and I'm at the point of being ready to sacrifice t.v., redbox movies, and the like to have any extra money possible to put towards it. I guess I've decided where my priorities stand. I truly believe that we will be asked to live the law of consecration before the building of the NJ. Even though I don't have my year supply yet for my family of seven I will still share with those in need as I currently do and always have. I do not and never have had the mind set of finding those who have a year supply to get food from. I just hope and pray that when the time comes my efforts and obedience will have proven faithful and our family will be blessed because of it.

Rensai wrote:

momto5 wrote:I just hate to see how judgmental some people can be just because they have their year supply. I make no excuses for myself. We've worked slowly over the years to gather our food supply and at times we ended up using it. This last year I have felt the pressing need to gather as much as I can and I'm at the point of being ready to sacrifice t.v., redbox movies, and the like to have any extra money possible to put towards it. I guess I've decided where my priorities stand. I truly believe that we will be asked to live the law of consecration before the building of the NJ. Even though I don't have my year supply yet for my family of seven I will still share with those in need as I currently do and always have. I do not and never have had the mind set of finding those who have a year supply to get food from. I just hope and pray that when the time comes my efforts and obedience will have proven faithful and our family will be blessed because of it.

I think if you're truly doing everything you can, one way or another you will be fine. I have my year's supply and then some and I would have no difficulty at all helping someone who has done all they can and will work and do what they can to earn their keep.

The ones I struggle with are as other's have mentioned. Those who have boats, cabins, expensive cars, 4 wheelers, and other toys. My sense of justice makes it hard for me to contemplate sharing the food my family sacrificed for, with those who had the means, but chose to ignore the church's message. I have a brother-in-law who just inherited 70 thousand dollars from his grand father a couple months ago. I practically begged him to get food storage. Instead of buying food storage (he has none) he spent thousands on a 3D TV, bought a new car, computers, etc. He lives very close to me and every time I think about his lack of food storage I picture him coming for mine. I must admit, it's a pretty infuriating thought to me.

How do I become less judgemental and more merciful to such a person? I keep telling myself that it will happen and I better get used to the idea of sharing it with him now, but I can't quite seem to reconcile myself to that. I don't know what to do about it.

momto5 wrote: Shouldn't we be praying for those who have yet to 'hear and see' that they may be able to do so, repent, and change their ways?

momto5 wrote: I don't think Heavenly Father would be happy with us as a church/individual if we shared only with those we deemed worthy.

momto5 wrote: In the end his life is just as important as the next persons

momto5 wrote: and if it were me there's no way I could watch him or his family starve with a year supply in my home and I definitely wouldn't want to stand before God and tell him why I didn't want to share my food.

Perhaps, but the Lord has never hesitated to let those who won't listen suffer the consequences.

Rensai wrote:

momto5 wrote: Shouldn't we be praying for those who have yet to 'hear and see' that they may be able to do so, repent, and change their ways?

I do pray for them. I would be absolutely ecstatic if all my neighbors and family got food storage so that I did not have to worry about this particular problem.

momto5 wrote: I don't think Heavenly Father would be happy with us as a church/individual if we shared only with those we deemed worthy.

Perhaps, but the Lord has never hesitated to let those who won't listen suffer the consequences. For example, the Lord sealed Noah up inside the ark so that others could not join him who had failed to prepare. There are other examples. I can't think of any examples in the scriptures right now where those who failed to listen to the Lord's warnings escape the consequences. Why would this be different?

Noah and his family were the only righteous people on the earth at that time. We all know he was commanded to built the ark to save himself and his family. The reason why no one else came with him was because of their wickedness and not being willing to repent. In Genesis chapter 6 it strongly mentions how wicked the people had become and yet Noah and his family were righteous. No where does it mention he got to be saved because he had prepared for the flooding. He was saved because of his obedience to the command of building the ark. Which could be typified to the righteous in the last days being saved because they obeyed the prophet's/Lord's words to leave/gather or whatever the case may be. Also the scriptures do not say he was righteous because he fully and completely obeyed everything he was taught. I'm sure even he had to repent of shortcomings as do we all. So here we're taught he was spared not because he was perfect, but because he was righteous.

Genesis Ch 6
5 ¶ And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.
12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

Genesis Ch 7
1 And the Lord said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.

We also know the story of Lots wife. They were commanded to flee to the mountains and 'not look back', but his wife returned again and was destroyed as well. Again they weren't spared because of the provisions they had but because they were righteous. It was disobedience to that specific commandment of not looking back that she was destroyed. If we are told to gather how many would return back because they left something of earthly value behind that they really wanted.

momto5 wrote: In the end his life is just as important as the next persons

Is it as important as your childrens? How would you feel if you split your year of food storage, gave 6 month's worth to a friend, and then 6 month's later ended up watching not only the friends family, but your own slowly starve to death?

Then I would know that I did all I could to clothe the naked and feed the poor. Aren't we commanded to do that too. I wouldn't just blindly hand over what I think they would need. I would go by the spirit and what I feel right about for that person/family in that moment.

momto5 wrote: and if it were me there's no way I could watch him or his family starve with a year supply in my home and I definitely wouldn't want to stand before God and tell him why I didn't want to share my food.

Under normal circumstances I'd agree. But if my choice is between watching him starve or watching my children starve... I'll choose him. That's just how I feel. I just don't think this sharing with the unprepared is as easy as you make it out to be. I wish I could say I would share with anyone and everyone, but the fact is, if I did so, my food supply would probably be gone in weeks if not days or hours, and then where would I be? See it's not a matter of sharing a little excess to keep everyone fed and happy. Quite the opposite. Those who lack food storage far outnumber those who have it. If we shared with all, the food would be gone quickly and the end result would be we're all starving together absent miraculous intervention from the Lord.

Miraculous interventions from the Lord have happened many times. How many times have the people lived off of manna and the such? The Lord will always take care of his people. Some people though have their jobs/callings on the other side where they're needed.

I didn't work and sacrifice to build a food storage so that I could watch my family starve along side those who didn't prepare. I don't have a problem sharing what extra I've been able to save, but I do have a very hard time taking the risk that my family will not have enough to get through. What's wrong with that? Is it selfish to want to keep my family from starving?

Isn't every thing that we do done for the purpose of building up the kingdom. It's not just about us. For example, how much more could we help/serve if we did not have so much debt.

If you had a years supply how much would you share? Would you give it all away or would you hold some back momto? There will be plenty of takers that's for sure.
I believe those hardships would help us learn and prepare to live the law of consecration. For all we have is the Lord's and not ours to hold back or deny to others. There was one time when my sister-in-law left her abusive husband and had almost nothing. She had no food, very little money and no dishes to eat off of. We didn't have much regular food and maybe 20 cans of food storage. We ended up giving her half of the food we had (after all my husband had a job). We also gave her enough utensils and dishes for her family and bought some more for ourselves. I never gave it a second thought. There have been times when others have brought us food not knowing how much we were struggling. I know they were prompted by the Holy Ghost. I'm grateful the Lord didn't say 'well, too bad they should have had their year supply' We're supposed to help each other and bear one anothers burdens. I try to remember that although I still need to work harder at that. Another thought is that the city of Enoch became so righteous and was translated because the people had an eye single to the glory of God. One of the reasons was because they all helped each other so that there was no poor among them.

NoGreaterLove wrote:

Perhaps, but the Lord has never hesitated to let those who won't listen suffer the consequences.

There you go. You answered the big question. The Lord is the one who made the decision and commanded Noah to seal up the door. I doubt very seriously that Noah made that decision. I would venture to say he would have let many in with him if the Lord allowed it.

Nan wrote:I think the oil is our worthiness. It is the one thing we cannot share with someone else. And it is something that can not be bought at the last minute.

Original_Intent wrote:More creative interpretation of scripture. I am not saying wrong, I am saying forcing your preconceived notion and interpreting the scripture to say what you have already decided it "should" mean.

What about oil cannot be shared? How does oil equate to a testimony and spiritual preparedness that cannot be shared?

The virgins said they could not share "Lest there be not enough" and that everyone would be without, and they sent them to those that sell rather than give their own. Hmmm. They didn't say it was something that could nto be shared, they said they wouldn't because they didn't want to end up short when it was needed. Which does that correlate to more accurately, a testimony or food storage?

As I have said, I have already determined that all that I have is dedicated to the building of the Kingdom, and will do as directed by the spirit. So I am not saying you are wrong at all, I am saying it appears that you are interpreting scripture to fit the opinion that you already have. That is shaky ground.

NoGreaterLove wrote:I believe that the Ten Virgins represent the people of the Church of Jesus Christ and not the rank and file of the world. All of the virgins, wise and foolish, had accepted the invitation to the wedding supper; they had knowledge of the program and had been warned of the important day to come. They were not the gentiles or the heathens or the pagans, nor were they necessarily corrupt and reprobate, but they were knowing people who were foolishly unprepared for the vital happenings that were to affect their eternal lives.

They had the saving, exalting gospel, but it had not been made the center of their lives. They knew the way but gave only a small measure of loyalty and devotion. I ask you: What value is a car without an engine, a cup without water, a table without food, a lamp without oil?

Rushing for their lamps to light their way through the blackness, half of them found them empty. They had cheated themselves. They were fools, these five unprepared virgins. Apparently, the bridegroom had tarried for reasons that were sufficient and good. Time had passed, and he had not come. They had heard of his coming for so long, so many times, that the statement seemingly became meaningless to them. Would he ever come? So long had it been since they began expecting him that they were rationalizing that he would never appear. Perhaps it was a myth.

Hundreds of thousands of us today are in this position. Confidence has been dulled and patience worn thin. It is so hard to wait and be prepared always. But we cannot allow ourselves to slumber. The Lord has given us this parable as a special warning.

At midnight, the vital cry was made, "Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him." Then all the virgins arose and trimmed their lamps.

Even the foolish ones trimmed their lamps, but their oil was used up and they had none to refill the lamps. They hastened to make up for lost time. Now, too late, they were becoming conscious of the tragedy of unpreparedness. They had been taught. They had been warned all their lives.

At midnight! Precisely at the darkest hour, when least expected, the bridegroom came. When the world is full of tribulation and help is needed, but it seems the time must be past and hope is vain, then Christ will come. The midnights of life are the times when heaven comes to offer its joy for man's weariness. But when the cry sounds, there is no time for preparation. The lamps then make patterns of joy on the hillside, and the procession moves on toward the house of banqueting, and those without lamps or oil are left in darkness. When they have belatedly sought to fulfill the requirements and finally reach the hall, the door is shut. In the daytime, wise and unwise seemed alike; midnight is the time of test and judgment—and of offered gladness.

Paul wrote:

For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. (1 Thessalonians 5:2, 6-7.)

The foolish asked the others to share their oil, but spiritual preparedness cannot be shared in an instant. The wise had to go, else the bridegroom would have gone unwelcomed. They needed all their oil for themselves; they could not save the foolish. The responsibility was each for himself.

This was not selfishness or unkindness. The kind of oil that is needed to illuminate the way and light up the darkness is not shareable. How can one share obedience to the principle of tithing; a mind at peace from righteous living; an accumulation of knowledge? How can one share faith or testimony? How can one share attitudes or chastity, or the experience of a mission? How can one share temple privileges? Each must obtain that kind of oil for himself.

The foolish virgins were not averse to buying oil. They knew they should have oil. They merely procrastinated, not knowing when the bridegroom would come.

In the parable, oil can be purchased at the market. In our lives the oil of preparedness is accumulated drop by drop in righteous living. Attendance at sacrament meetings adds oil to our lamps, drop by drop over the years. Fasting, family prayer, home teaching, control of bodily appetites, preaching the gospel, studying the scriptures—each act of dedication and obedience is a drop added to our store. Deeds of kindness, payment of offerings and tithes, chaste thoughts and actions, marriage in the covenant for eternity—these, too, contribute importantly to the oil with which we can at midnight refuel our exhausted lamps.


(Spencer W. Kimball, Faith Precedes the Miracle [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1972], 255.)

Our Strengths Can Become Our Downfall

By Elder Dallin H. Oaks
Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles

Another area in which strengths can become our downfall concerns finances. We are commanded to give to the poor. Could the fulfillment of that fundamental Christian obligation be carried to excess? I believe it can. I have seen cases in which persons fulfilled that duty to such an extent that they impoverished their own families by expending resources of property or time that were needed for family members.

Perhaps this excess explains why King Benjamin, who commanded his people to impart of their substance to the poor—“feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting the sick and administering to their relief, both spiritually and temporally”—also cautioned them to “see that all these things are done in wisdom and order; for it is not requisite that a man should run faster than he has strength” (Mosiah 4:26–27). Similarly, a revelation given to the Prophet Joseph Smith when he was translating the Book of Mormon cautioned him, “Do not run faster or labor more than you have strength and means provided to enable you to translate” (D&C 10:4).

Rensai wrote:I was reading an article from another thread and part of it struck me as the answer I needed for this thread. It illustrates the point I was trying to make perfectly.

Our Strengths Can Become Our Downfall

By Elder Dallin H. Oaks
Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles

Another area in which strengths can become our downfall concerns finances. We are commanded to give to the poor. Could the fulfillment of that fundamental Christian obligation be carried to excess? I believe it can. I have seen cases in which persons fulfilled that duty to such an extent that they impoverished their own families by expending resources of property or time that were needed for family members.

Perhaps this excess explains why King Benjamin, who commanded his people to impart of their substance to the poor—“feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting the sick and administering to their relief, both spiritually and temporally”—also cautioned them to “see that all these things are done in wisdom and order; for it is not requisite that a man should run faster than he has strength” (Mosiah 4:26–27). Similarly, a revelation given to the Prophet Joseph Smith when he was translating the Book of Mormon cautioned him, “Do not run faster or labor more than you have strength and means provided to enable you to translate” (D&C 10:4).

This quote from elder oaks seems to agree with what I was saying about sharing my excess, but not risking the supplies necessary for my own family to survive.

chiloe wrote:We also have a large home that is rather empty right now, and I've had this feeling that we might end up taking people/family in eventually, whether due to economic circumstances or worse... just a feeling

11 ¶ In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. 2 Pet. 3.6
12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.
13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;
14 they, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.
15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.
16 And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.

Jason wrote:The dilemma is in reconciling Mosiah 4:16-23 (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/mosiah/4/22#22) with D&C 42:42 (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/42/42#42)....but ultimately the Spirit will dictate the appropriate action at the appropriate time if we are in tune and looking for guidance.

Great point Rensai!

momto5 wrote:

Jason wrote:The dilemma is in reconciling Mosiah 4:16-23 (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/mosiah/4/22#22) with D&C 42:42 (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/42/42#42)....but ultimately the Spirit will dictate the appropriate action at the appropriate time if we are in tune and looking for guidance.

Great point Rensai!

Mosiah 4 tells us exactly what we should do with our food storage but who are we to judge whether the beggar has been idle or not. Mosiah 4 explains how we are all beggers esp. for forgiveness for our sins. Does Heavenly Father tell us thanks for asking for forgiveness, but before I forgive you have to bake bread for your neighbor, call so and so and go clean so and so's house then I'll forgive you? Why we would do that to someone else? Mosiah 4 doesn't say we are commanded to give of our substance as long as they work for it and earn it.