LDS Freedom Forum

Hello everyone! This is my first post, but I've been lurking for a while.

The following scriptural sequence explains my conclusions regarding the identity of the great and abominable church, and the timeframe for the fulfilling of the times of the gentiles.

Armies at Armageddon will be Destroyed by Hailstones and Fire

What do the armies at Armageddon have to do with the identity of the great and abominable church? Keep reading and you’ll see!

We know from Ezekiel’s prophecy that those who will fight against Israel at the battle of Armageddon will be destroyed by hail and fire:

Ezekiel 38:22
And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.


Zechariah also prophesied of their destruction by hail:

Zechariah 14:3
BEHOLD, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken…
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.


Now wait a minute, you might say. Where in Zechariah’s prophecy did he mention anything about hail? Right there, at the end, when he mentions the “day of battle”:

Joshua 10:11
And it came to pass, as they [the Amorites] fled from before Israel, and were in the going down to Beth-horon, that the LORD cast down great stones from heaven upon them unto Azekah, and they died: they were more which died with hailstones than they whom the children of Israel slew with the sword.

This day of battle recorded in Joshua speaks of people who were destroyed by hailstones, the same as will happen, as prophesied by Ezekiel. Therefore, we know that Zechariah’s reference to the “day of battle” was also a reference to people being destroyed by hail.


Joseph Smith also prayed that the Lord would send hail, the same as occurred in the “day of battle”:

D&C 109:28-30
28 And if they shall smite this people thou wilt smite them; thou wilt fight for thy people as thou didst in the day of battle, that they may be delivered from the hands of all their enemies.
29 We ask thee, Holy Father, to confound, and astonish, and to bring to shame and confusion, all those who have spread lying reports abroad, over the world, against thy servant or servants, if they will not repent, when the everlasting gospel shall be proclaimed in their ears;
30 And that all their works may be brought to naught, and be swept away by the hail, and by the judgments which thou wilt send upon them in thine anger, that there may be an end to lyings and slanders against thy people.


Great and Abominable Church = Armies at Armageddon

The armies at Armageddon will be destroyed by hailstones and fire, which will also be the destruction of the great and abominable church during the same event. Don’t take my word for it. This is what the Lord had to say about it:

D&C 29:21
And the great and abominable church, which is the whore of all the earth, shall be cast down by devouring fire, according as it is spoken by the mouth of Ezekiel the prophet, who spoke of these things, which have not come to pass but surely must, as I live, for abominations shall not reign.


Turning back to Ezekiel, who is it that will be cast down by devouring fire? The armies at Armageddon:

Ezekiel 38:22
And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.

Therefore, the great and abominable church will also be destroyed when the hailstones and fire destroy the armies at Armageddon who have gathered to fight against Israel.


After Destruction = Covenants Fulfilled

After the destruction of the great and abominable church, the Father’s covenants begin to be fulfilled:

1 Nephi 14:17
And when the day cometh that the wrath of God is poured out upon the mother of harlots, which is the great and abominable church of all the earth, whose founder is the devil, then, at that day, the work of the Father shall commence, in preparing the way for the fulfilling of his covenants, which he hath made to his people who are of the house of Israel.


What are two of the covenants which the Father has made to the house of Israel?

Covenant: Gospel to the Jews
3 Nephi 16:11
And then will I remember my covenant which I have made unto my people, O house of Israel, and I will bring my gospel unto them.

Covenant: Gathering of Israel
2 Nephi 10:7
…then have I covenanted with their fathers that they shall be restored in the flesh, upon the earth, unto the lands of their inheritance.


But remember, the fulfilling of these two covenants will not begin until after the destruction of the great and abominable church (the destruction of the armies at the battle of Armageddon), which is the same timeframe that the Lord will appear to the Jews at the Mount of Olives.

And indeed the gospel will be presented to the Jews when the Lord appears to them at the Mount of Olives:

D&C 45:51-53
51 And then shall the Jews look upon me and say: What are these wounds in thine hands and in thy feet?
52 Then shall they know that I am the Lord; for I will say unto them: These wounds are the wounds with which I was wounded in the house of my friends. I am he who was lifted up. I am Jesus that was crucified. I am the Son of God.

And many Jews will be converted when the Lord appears to those Jews present at the Mount of Olives:

D&C 45:53
53 And then shall they weep because of their iniquities; then shall they lament because they persecuted their king.

Ezekiel 39:22
22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.


The other covenant, the Gathering of Israel, will be fulfilled as a result of the conversion of the Jews:

2 Nephi 10:7-8
7 But behold, thus saith the Lord God: When the day cometh that they shall believe in me, that I am Christ, then have I covenanted with their fathers that they shall be restored in the flesh, upon the earth, unto the lands of their inheritance.
8 And it shall come to pass that they shall be gathered in from their long dispersion, from the isles of the sea, and from the four parts of the earth; and the nations of the Gentiles shall be great in the eyes of me, saith God, in carrying them forth to the lands of their inheritance.

In other words, the Jews around the world will not return to Israel until after they have been converted.

Some people claim that the gathering of Israel is happening right now, that the Jews are returning to the lands of their inheritance. It is true that there are some Jews that have returned to Israel, but that is only a small percentage of all the world’s Jews.

Another claim is that the conversion of the Jews will happen before the battle of Armageddon, and that they will then gather to the land of Israel and suffer through the tribulations of Armageddon. This flies in the face of logic. In the first place, as pointed out above, the covenants of the Father will not begin to be fulfilled until after the great and abominable church (army at Armageddon) is destroyed, so the vast majority of Jews will not even be there yet.

And another reason it’s illogical is because if the Jews are already converted and living in the land of Israel, then when the Savior appears to them at the Mount of Olives, they won’t need to ask about the wounds in His hands and feet. They will already know who He is.


Gathering of Israel indicates that the times of Gentiles are fulfilled:

D&C 45:24-25
24 And this I have told you concerning Jerusalem; and when that day shall come, shall a remnant be scattered among all nations;
25 But they shall be gathered again; but they shall remain until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

In other words, the Jews will not return to the lands of their inheritance until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Also, this means that the times of the Gentiles will not be fulfilled until after the battle of Armageddon and the destruction of the great and abominable church.

Some people mistakenly assume that when the missionaries are called home, preparatory to the destructions to occur at the end of the Sixth Seal and the beginning of the Seventh Seal, that it will mean that the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. Not even close. The gospel will still need to be taken to every nation, and that will occur after the New Jerusalem has been built, but before the battle of Armageddon.


Conclusions:

• - The times of the Gentiles are not fulfilled until the gathering of Israel begins
  - The gathering of Israel doesn’t begin until the Jews are converted
  - The Jews are not converted until the Savior appears to some Jews at the Mount of Olives
  - These two covenants being fulfilled (the Jews converted and the gathering of Israel) do not occur until the destruction of the great and abominable church
  - The great and abominable church = the armies at Armageddon
  - The destruction of the great and abominable church (the armies at Armageddon) will be caused by hail and fire
  - Their destruction from hail and fire will occur during the same timeframe that the Lord appears to the Jews at the Mount of Olives
  - Therefore, the fulfilling of the times of the Gentiles will not occur until the destruction of the armies at Armageddon

Awesome work! Thank you for sharing!!!

Also, this means that the times of the Gentiles will not be fulfilled until after the battle of Armageddon and the destruction of the great and abominable church.

You did a great job. However you have failed to prove this point. Please show scriptural documentation or words of the prophets stating such. You just drew this conclusion on your own.

D&C 45:24-25
24 And this I have told you concerning Jerusalem; and when that day shall come, shall a remnant be scattered among all nations;
25 But they shall be gathered again; but they shall remain until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

This scriptures says the Jews will not return until after the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. It did not say that the gathering happens immediately after. Do not forget that immediately after the times of the Gentiles, the gospel is then sent forth through the 144000 to the house of Israel prior to Armageddon. This includes the Jews where a temple is built and two prophets have been there for at least 3 1/2 years. So considering two prophets are preaching the gospel to the Jews whom now have a temple, the times of the Gentiles will already have been fulfilled.

The gathering and the conversion are two separate things that occur. The gathering will begin before Armageddon and the conversion after.

Here are some quotes that explain some of what I have said:

6. The times of the Gentiles commenced shortly after the death of our Redeemer. The Jews soon rejected the Gospel and it was then taken to the Gentiles. The times of the Gentiles have continued from that time until now. The Lord said: "But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first." In that day the Gospel was given first to the Jews and then taken to the Gentiles. In this dispensation it was taken first to the Gentiles and afterwards it will go to the Jews. "And when the times of the Gentiles is come in, a light shall break forth among them that sit in darkness, and it shall be the fulness of my Gospel," the Lord said in this revelation. The meaning is that when the time had come for the restoration of the Gospel—in the times of the Gentiles—that it would not be received because the hearts of the people are turned away by the precepts of men. However, in that generation this should happen, the times of the Gentiles should be fulfilled. When we consider the words of the Savior to his disciples, that the Jews should be scattered and "Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled," we have a fair understanding of the meaning of this (30th) verse in this revelation. Jerusalem was trodden down of the Gentiles from the day of its destruction until the close of the year 1917, when it was freed from Turkish rule by General Edmund H. Allenby of the British forces. After the war Palestine became a British mandate, and Great Britain by proclamation declared that country to be a refuge for the Jews who were invited to return. The first Governor of the land, after the war and the first Jewish ruler in that land since the time of Christ, was Sir Herbert Samuel, a British subject. From that time until now Palestine has been a refuge for the downtrodden Jews, and they have been returning to the land of their fathers by the hundreds of thousands. This is a very interesting subject which cannot be discussed in any degree commensurate with its importance at this time. It is very significant however, that, Jerusalem is no longer trodden down by the Gentiles and the Jews are again gathering there. This is the sign given by our Lord, for the end of the times of the Gentiles. We are now in the transition period and shortly the day of the Jew will dawn and the Gospel will be taken to them and to the remnants on this land. (See the prophetic utterances of Jesus Christ to the Nephites recorded in III Nephi.)
(Joseph Fielding Smith, Church History and Modern Revelation, 4 vols. [Salt Lake City: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1946-1949], 1: 179 - 180.)

They built altars to Baal and broke their covenants, and he told them they would be scattered and peeled, and destroyed by pestilence, by famine, and by the sword; women would eat their own children, and a remnant of them would be taken from Jerusalem and scattered among the whole Gentile world, and be trampled under the feet of the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles were fulfilled. Those words have been fulfilled to the very letter as fast as time would admit.
(Brian H. Stuy, ed., Collected Discourses, 5 vols. [Burbank, Calif., and Woodland Hills, Ut.: B.H.S. Publishing, 1987-1992], 2: .)

The Lord has designated these days in which we live as "the times of the Gentiles." The Gentile nations are essentially the so-called Christian nations—North and South America and the European nations from which we came. "The times of the Gentiles" refers to that period of time extending from when the gospel was restored to the world (1830) to when the gospel will again be preached to the Jews—after the Gentiles have rejected it. This is how the Lord explained it: "When the times of the Gentiles is come in, a light shall break forth among them that sit in darkness, and it shall be the fulness of my gospel; but they receive it not; for they perceive not the light, and they turn their hearts from me because of the precepts of men. And in that generation shall the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled." (Doctrine and Covenants 45:28-30; italics added.)
(Ezra Taft Benson, Come unto Christ [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1983], 110.)

Orson Pratt explained it in this manner:

Do not misunderstand me, do not think that all the Lamanite tribes are going to be converted and receive this great degree of education and civilization before we can return to Jackson County. Do not think this for a moment, it will only be a remnant; for when we have laid the foundation of that city and have built a portion of it, and have built a Temple therein, there is another work which we have got to do in connection with these remnants of Jacob whom we shall assist in building the city. What is it? We have got to be sent forth as missionaries to all parts of this American continent. Not to the Gentiles, for their times will be fulfilled; but we must go to all those tribes that roam through the cold regions of the north-British America, to all the tribes that dwell in the Territories of the United States, also to all those who are scattered through Mexico, and Central and South America, and the object of our going will be to declare the principles of the Gospel unto them, and bring them to a knowledge of the truth. "Then shall they assist my people who are scattered on all the face of the land, that they may be gathered in to the New Jerusalem."33
(Gerald N. Lund, The Coming of the Lord [Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1971], 155 - 156.)

I have more specific quotes and scriptures relating to this subject, but I will have to locate them and post them later.

You guys are both smart and have done your homework- but could save a lot of time and effort by getting a copy of "The cleansing of America" by Cleon S- he covers all this in this book.

I always thought the Great and Abominable Church was the Catholic Church (Bruce McConkie).
I know believe it is the Muslim religion.

I also think that the gathering of Israel, while it continues, is pretty much complete.

The time is at hand!

Cowboy wrote:I always thought the Great and Abominable Church was the Catholic Church (Bruce McConkie).
I know believe it is the Muslim religion.

I also think that the gathering of Israel, while it continues, is pretty much complete.

The time is at hand!

The muslims may be a part of the GAC, but they are not the majority of it. Those who control the treasures of the earth (money in our day, bankers etc) are those who rule with blood and horror and it is they who are the GAC (those promoting the NWO agenda)

Cowboy wrote:I always thought the Great and Abominable Church was the Catholic Church (Bruce McConkie).
I know believe it is the Muslim religion.!

About a month ago I read an article in the Ensign that in essence said that the Muslim religion was inspired by God as well as the Prophet Mohammad. And that Esau was entilted to the same blessings as Issac because he too was of the seed of Abraham. Now what think ye?

Besides without the Muslims we would probably still be living in the Dark Ages. Why? Because Plato's and Aristotle's writings were preserved and intrepreted by Muslim scholars which formed the basis of civilization in the Western world. The Muslim Golden Age brought us the great advances in medicine, optics and science we built on today. Ever hear of the scholar Alhazen (father of optics), well without his experiments Phillipo Brunelleschi wouldn't have discovered linear perspective in the Renaissance. We should be grateful for the Muslim people. Besides Dr. Steven Jones said that the Muslim's were not responsible for bringing down the two world trade centers. So why do you what to pick on the Muslim people? Oh, I know why! Because the American media-- ministry of propaganda tells us the Muslim's are jealous of our freedoms, right? Yea, those poor people make great scape-goats don't they?!

The great and abominable church are those which worship satan.

Those who are truly on the Lord's side are called "the church of the Firstborn", see
D&C 76: 54, 67, 71, 94, 102, Heb. 12: 23, Col. 1: 18. This doesn't refer to any earthly church, but rather where your heart, allegiances, and works tend to be. (Though it's true that you must have the necessary ordinances performed, at least eventually, this life or the next.) A simple way of saying it is that those in the "church of the Firstborn" are those who live Celestial laws, people with Zion hearts, wherever they're found.
So it would follow that "the great and abominable church" would be found scattered throughout all nations and creeds as well. The simpler term for it would be Babylon or those who live a Telestial law.
There is an organized Babylon as well; I agree with the assessment of the NWO and international bankers, any of those who are trying to consolidate and steal power. And there is an organized, restored church of the Lord's. Both of these organizations teach their precepts, but there is a big range within them of how closely people follow those principles. And other people who are not 'members' of either can live by the principles, as far as they understand them, and thus qualify for either Zion or Babylon.

That said, the point of the thread was to show that the Great and Abominable Church is the same organization that provides the army at Armageddon. That's a fascinating insight, and entirely possible; it was an "aha" moment for me.

singyourwayhome wrote: So it would follow that "the great and abominable church" would be found scattered throughout all nations and creeds as well.

Yes, look at I Nephi 14:11 then D&C 86:3

GeeR wrote:

Cowboy wrote:I always thought the Great and Abominable Church was the Catholic Church (Bruce McConkie).
I know believe it is the Muslim religion.!

About a month ago I read an article in the Ensign that in essence said that the Muslim religion was inspired by God as well as the Prophet Mohammad. And that Esau was entilted to the same blessings as Issac because he too was of the seed of Abraham. Now what think ye?

But but if that's true we might have to rething our unthinking support of war against the Islamofascist terrorists!!!

Original_Intent wrote:

GeeR wrote:

Cowboy wrote:I always thought the Great and Abominable Church was the Catholic Church (Bruce McConkie).
I know believe it is the Muslim religion.!

About a month ago I read an article in the Ensign that in essence said that the Muslim religion was inspired by God as well as the Prophet Mohammad. And that Esau was entilted to the same blessings as Issac because he too was of the seed of Abraham. Now what think ye?

But but if that's true we might have to rething our unthinking support of war against the Islamofascist terrorists!!!

Not Esau, but Ishmael, my mistake. And yes Ishmael's decendants are children of the Abrahamic covenant too!

Ishmael, Our Brother
By James B. Mayfield
Ensign, June 1979

Larry said:
Conclusions:
- The great and abominable church = the armies at Armageddon
- The destruction of the great and abominable church (the armies at Armageddon) will be caused by hail and fire


Larry, before I get into my comments I just want to compliment you on the fact that you are apparently involved in an earnest effort to understand these events. You have many good points in your post. I’m just going to address one of them.

Last year I wrote a book, “Fall of the Great and Abominable Church” so I guess you could say that I have an opinion about what it is and the timing of it’s demise. One thing that I learned in my research is that the rise and fall of the GAAC happens before the opening of the 7th seal. Armageddon is definitely and 7th seal event and so I think we are looking at something other than Gog and his army. Let’s go to the scriptures.

One key to understanding the timing is contained in D&C 29:10-21. In versed 10-14 we read:

10 For the hour is nigh, and that which was spoken by mine apostles must be fulfilled; for as they spoke so shall it come to pass;
11 For I will reveal myself from heaven with power and great glory, with all the hosts thereof, and dwell in righteousness with men on earth a thousand years, and the wicked shall not stand.
12 And again, verily, verily, I say unto you, and it hath gone forth in a firm decree, by the will of the Father, that mine apostles, the Twelve which were with me in my ministry at Jerusalem, shall stand at my right hand at the day of my coming in a pillar of fire, being clothed with robes of righteousness, with crowns upon their heads, in glory even as I am, to judge the whole house of Israel, even as many as have loved me and kept my commandments, and none else.
13 For a trump shall sound both long and loud, even as upon Mount Sinai, and all the earth shall quake, and they shall come forth—yea, even the dead which died in me, to receive a crown of righteousness, and to be clothed upon, even as I am, to be with me, that we may be one.
14 But, behold, I say unto you that before this great day shall come the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall be turned into blood, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and there shall be greater signs in heaven above and in the earth beneath;

In verses 10-13 above the Lord is speaking about the millennium and then in verse 14 he says “before this great day shall come” (Before the millennial day or the opening of the 7th seal.). Then he gives a list of things that will happen “before this great day shall come”. That list runs from verse 14 through 21 and the demise of the GAAC is one of those events. Verse 21 states:

21 And the great and abominable church, which is the whore of all the earth, shall be cast down by devouring fire, according as it is spoken by the mouth of Ezekiel the prophet, who spoke of these things, which have not come to pass but surely must, as I live, for abominations shall not reign.

We see this same sequence in D&C 88:94-95 which Elder McConkie said are in chronological order. It says:

94 And another angel shall sound his trump, saying: That great church, the mother of abominations, that made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, that persecuteth the saints of God, that shed their blood—she who sitteth upon many waters, and upon the islands of the sea—behold, she is the tares of the earth; she is bound in bundles; her bands are made strong, no man can loose them; therefore, she is ready to be burned. And he shall sound his trump both long and loud, and all nations shall hear it.
95 And there shall be silence in heaven for the space of half an hour; and immediately after shall the curtain of heaven be unfolded, as a scroll is unfolded after it is rolled up, and the face of the Lord shall be unveiled;

So we have the demise of the GAAC in verse 94, before the opening of the 7th seal in verse 95. (You will please recall that John tells us what happens when the half hour silence begins. “And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.” Rev. 8:1)

So I would conclude my remarks by saying that the demise of the GAAC is a 6th seal event and so it must be something other than Gog and his armies. This also would mean that we are dealing with the GAAC presently. What is the GAAC? Well, she “is the whore of all the earth” and “sitteth upon many waters”. You can’t miss her if your aware of current events.

she is ready to be burned.

Not burned. Ready to be burned. She is not burned in the sixth seal, only bound in bundles, or prepared to be burned. The burning begins when the second trump sounds and continues until Christ comes to the Mount of Olives with a consummating event.

The bounding and the burning of the bundles is an event that happens over many years. The bounding in the sixth seal and the burning in the seventh.

Armageddon is preparatory to the final event and leads to the final destruction of the GAAC.

Why are the bundles bound? Christ has appeared at Adam ondi Ahmen and obtained all the keys from the various dispensations and is now reigning upon the earth. Satan no longer reigns. Now the New King will proceed to cleanse His Kingdom of the old kings domain. Thus he sends out is forces, the 144000 to gather the rest of his devoted subjects and gathers them to the throne, the New Jerusalem, where he anoints them. Then he sends his angels to clean out the parts of the kingdom that are still occupied by the old kings servants. They do the preparatory cleansing. The King then comes with his hosts and personally cleans the rest of His Kingdom. Once clean, he sends the anointed servants back to the land of their promised inheritance

(JST Revelation 17:7.)

7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

The kingdoms carry or support the woman. In other words they give the woman her power by obeying her commands. They enable her to perform her every desire. Once the kingdoms are destroyed, the woman loses her power.


Seven continents and ten kingdoms "9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth."


(JST Daniel 2:34-35.)

34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.

The image is smote upon the feet by the stone. In other words the gospel is taught to the ten kingdoms first which allows the Lord to say you have been warned and now it is time for your demise.

35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them; and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

This destruction of the ten kingdoms causes a chain reaction that allows for the rest of the kingdoms represented by the rest of the beast to fall. So once the power of the ten kingdoms no longer exist, the rest of the kingdoms are now able to surround Jerusalem and prepare for their demise.

(JST Daniel 2:42-44.)

42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.

43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men; but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever.

The Lord binds them into bundles by destroying the ten kingdoms on the seven continents. It appears the ten kingdoms are the nations of the gentiles. The gentiles have the gospel taught to them first, then comes the destruction. The toes are destroyed first. Now it is time for the gospel to go to the rest of the house of Israel. Then comes their destruction. So the rest of the beast is destroyed.

Nogreaterlove said: Not burned. Ready to be burned.

The Lord clearly states in D&C 29:14-21, “before this great day shall come…the great and abominable church, which is the whore of all the earth, shall be cast down by devouring fire.”

The Lord is speaking of his coming to the Mount of Olives with his twelve apostles.

(Doctrine and Covenants 29:12.)

12 And again, verily, verily, I say unto you, and it hath gone forth in a firm decree, by the will of the Father, that mine apostles, the Twelve which were with me in my ministry at Jerusalem, shall stand at my right hand at the day of my coming in a pillar of fire, being clothed with robes of righteousness, with crowns upon their heads, in glory even as I am, to judge the whole house of Israel, even as many as have loved me and kept my commandments, and none else.


Then he says:

(Doctrine and Covenants 29:14-21.)

14 But, behold, I say unto you that before this great day shall come the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall be turned into blood, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and there shall be greater signs in heaven above and in the earth beneath;

15 And there shall be weeping and wailing among the hosts of men;

16 And there shall be a great hailstorm sent forth to destroy the crops of the earth.

17 And it shall come to pass, because of the wickedness of the world, that I will take vengeance upon the wicked, for they will not repent; for the cup of mine indignation is full; for behold, my blood shall not cleanse them if they hear me not.

18 Wherefore, I the Lord God will send forth flies upon the face of the earth, which shall take hold of the inhabitants thereof, and shall eat their flesh, and shall cause maggots to come in upon them;

19 And their tongues shall be stayed that they shall not utter against me; and their flesh shall fall from off their bones, and their eyes from their sockets;

20 And it shall come to pass that the beasts of the forest and the fowls of the air shall devour them up.

21 And the great and abominable church, which is the whore of all the earth, shall be cast down by devouring fire, according as it is spoken by the mouth of Ezekiel the prophet, who spoke of these things, which have not come to pass but surely must, as I live, for abominations shall not reign.

So the great and abominable church shall be cast down by devouring fire just as Ezekial says.

(Ezekiel 5:2-8.)

2 Thou shalt burn with fire a third part in the midst of the city, when the days of the siege are fulfilled: and thou shalt take a third part, and smite about it with a knife: and a third part thou shalt scatter in the wind; and I will draw out a sword after them.

3 Thou shalt also take thereof a few in number, and bind them in thy skirts.

4 Then take of them again, and cast them into the midst of the fire, and burn them in the fire; for thereof shall a fire come forth into all the house of Israel.

5 ¶ Thus saith the Lord GOD; This is Jerusalem: I have set it in the midst of the nations and countries that are round about her.

6 And she hath changed my judgments into wickedness more than the nations, and my statutes more than the countries that are round about her: for they have refused my judgments and my statutes, they have not walked in them.

7 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye multiplied more than the nations that are round about you, and have not walked in my statutes, neither have kept my judgments, neither have done according to the judgments of the nations that are round about you;

8 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I, even I, am against thee, and will execute judgments in the midst of thee in the sight of the nations.

(Ezekiel 15:1-8.)

1 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

2 Son of man, What is the vine tree more than any tree, or than a branch which is among the trees of the forest?

3 Shall wood be taken thereof to do any work? or will men take a pin of it to hang any vessel thereon?

4 Behold, it is cast into the fire for fuel; the fire devoureth both the ends of it, and the midst of it is burned. Is it meet for any work?

5 Behold, when it was whole, it was meet for no work: how much less shall it be meet yet for any work, when the fire hath devoured it, and it is burned?

6 ¶ Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; As the vine tree among the trees of the forest, which I have given to the fire for fuel, so will I give the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

7 And I will set my face against them; they shall go out from one fire, and another fire shall devour them; and ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I set my face against them.

8 And I will make the land desolate, because they have committed a trespass, saith the Lord GOD.

The final burning or destruction of the bundles happens at Jerusalem at the battle of Armageddon just as Ezekial prophesied.

There will be burning of various kinds and at various times in the winding up events of the Second Coming but the timing of the burning of the GAAC is so clearly set forth in D&C 29:14-21 as a 6th seal event. It’s so simple, he says what he means and means what he says. It is fruitless to argue that the Lord meant something other than what he said.

he says what he means and means what he says

I just quoted the same scripture you used to profess your belief and disproved you. What more evidence do you have?

Read Ezekial! He is clearly speaking about Armageddon.

21 And the great and abominable church, which is the whore of all the earth, shall be cast down by devouring fire, according as it is spoken by the mouth of Ezekiel the prophet, who spoke of these things, which have not come to pass but surely must, as I live, for abominations shall not reign.