O'Reilly Says Mitt Romney Will Be Next President

[bobhenstra]

I don't call links to videos of the words coming out of Mitt's own mouth third person testimony, Bob.

Did he himself say he regretted making those statements? Have you ever regretted making rash statements? Did you seek forgiveness from those you might have offended, did you apologize after making the statements, as Romney did?

I have accepted his apologies, why do you insist on hanging on to his mistakes, are you part of the dem/liberal/union/press machine that constantly attacks him? If he was such a bad guy, and was part of their crowd as Harry Reid is, why the constant vitriolic attacks from that side of the isle, why does the dem/liberal/union/press machine fear him so? Do you suspect there might be a reason?

You see O.I., I suspect your part of that machine, unwittingly perhaps! But I wonder if your here incognito spreading false rumors about a man, a man just like you who made a few mistakes in his life, and has admitted it. He has sought forgiveness, and your trying your hardest to talk the rest of us into "not" forgiving the man, by continually reminding us of his supposed sins! Has he been excommunicated because of his statements, his "sins?"

O.I. it doesn't bother me that you won't vote for the man, I just find it interesting you won't forgive him? Why is that? I forgive him, why can't you? Is it because you have an agenda beyond the possibility of him getting elected, are you secretly supporting your ldg favorite? Are you yourself a member of the CFR, an LDG? O.I., Do "you" appreciate "me" asking those questions? Do you think Romney appreciates "you" accusing him like you do, when the proof "exists" that he is constantly being attacked by those same people?

I think not, on both accounts!

Bob

[bobhenstra]

I have had LDSs insist the youtube videos of Romney's Moses and the bush statement and his statement during one of the so-called debates about going to war against Iran on the basis of consulting with lawyers (without a declaratioin of war by Congress) were faked. Others insist that even though "Obamacare" is unconstitutional and a deprivation of agency, "Romneycare is neither.



I've been accused of hating Romney on this forum, and that was a lie if for no other reason none of you can know how I really feel towards him. I am disappointed in him for the mistakes he has made, including cheerleading for McCain (For that I am disgusted). But the anger on my part is directed toward the LDSs who in their ignorance from lack of homework think he is a great choice for US President.

Why are you angry because some of us choose to support a man you chose not to support? Does Mitt not have the right to support anybody he chooses, as you do? If Mitt and Harry are actually (secretly) on the same side, why didn't Harry support Mitt? Mitt could have beat Obumpa!

Why are you angry anyway? Isn't the Lord in charge, don't you trust him??

Bob

[lundbaek]

Bob is right in that I should not let myself get angry at people whom I believe in their ignorance are contributing to the destruction of our country. However, I do reserve the right to do what I can to awaken people, especially LDSs, to the "awful situation" so many of them are unwittingly supporting, and to their/our responsibility to promote moral and constitutional principles in government. And it that entails exposing a candidate's or an incumbent's serious lapses of judgement, knowledge, and/or integrity, I calls 'em as I sees 'em with no apologies.

Would anybody here forgive me any time soon if I supported Bob Bennett or Harry Reid? Would any of you support me if I ran again for US Congress if I went about cheerleading for either of those two? Hows about if I campaigned for Senator McCain?

[pritchet1]

Why do those who are in the political "profession", allowed to turn it into a career? Two Term Limits: One in office, the other in prison.

[pritchet1]

BTW, why do we care what O'Reilly says anymore anyway? I listen to him hardly at all anymore because of his support of Obama and constant excusing for the current regime. Remember who pays him to speak.

[ready2prepare]

...the anger on my part is directed toward the
LDSs who in their ignorance from lack of homework
think he is a great choice for US President.

...Why are you angry anyway? Isn't the Lord in
charge, don't you trust him?? Bob

We can be angry at whom we choose, but
the end result is the same: we waste
valuable time and energy that could be
better directed toward working to build
the kingdom in a positive way; ie, being
"anxiously engaged in a good cause."

How receptive to the Spirit can we be if we
choose to continually be angry and harbor
unkind feelings towards our neighbors and
especially our LDS brothers and sisters?

I invite y'all to consider this:

Being “Anxiously Engaged” by Elder Joseph Anderson

• ...Men are crying, “peace, peace,” but there is
  no peace. We are living in times that are trying
  the hearts of men. We need not be afraid if we
  are on the Lord’s side. It is not wise for us to put
  off the day of preparation and to think the Lord
  will delay his coming. It is true we do not know
  the day nor the hour, the month nor the year, but
  we do recognize the signs that he has given us as
  an indication of the nearness of that great event.
  
  How can we be prepared for that day? We must
  keep the commandments of the Lord; we must be
  engaged in a good cause, endeavoring to bring
  forth much righteousness. We must warn our
  fellowmen. We must teach our children true doctrines
  and lead them in the paths of rectitude....

Tell me, please: How much warning, teaching and
leading can we do in a spirit of love and by the
guidance of the Holy Spirit when our hearts are
filled with anger? And how effective will we be in
really making a difference for good?

Best Regards,
Sharon in Mississippi

[Original_Intent]

I don't call links to videos of the words coming out of Mitt's own mouth third person testimony, Bob.

Did he himself say he regretted making those statements? Have you ever regretted making rash statements? Did you seek forgiveness from those you might have offended, did you apologize after making the statements, as Romney did? I'd like to see video of those apologies. Otherwise, I am afraid this is just third person testimony and not admissable in court.

I have accepted his apologies, why do you insist on hanging on to his mistakes, are you part of the dem/liberal/union/press machine that constantly attacks him? If he was such a bad guy, and was part of their crowd as Harry Reid is, why the constant vitriolic attacks from that side of the isle, why does the dem/liberal/union/press machine fear him so? Do you suspect there might be a reason?You can really be dense as a rock, Bob. This isn't about forgiveness, this is about chosing righteous leaders. When the "great awakening" coincides with what is politically expedient, that is worthy of skepticism. It's not my right to judge if he is really repentant, but it is my duty to select someone who has exhibited wisdom, an understanding of and a record of supporting the Constitution. I have no idea if your mind is too closed to get the point of this analogy, but here goes. Pretend you are the owner of a company, and you have decided to appoint one of your employees as CEO. There is one employee who has done just about everything perfectly - done what he was asked, exercised excellent judgment, and in fact has given you warnings about threats to your company throughout the years that have been amazingly accurate and displayed both a knowledge of the marketplace as well as dedication and loyalty to the well-being of your company. You have several other employees that also want the job. They almost all have gotten into the habit of coming into work late, their advice has been between bad and terrible. Many of their actions have almost seemed to be more determined to undermine your company than help it. While you are making this seemingly obvious decision, your top employee warns you about certain dangers ahead for the company, at which all of the other candidates mock him. One of the candidates went to school with you, and you know that he SHOULD have a good understanding of how to run the business, but over decades he has never shown much understanding of those principles. At one point he says that he realizes he ahs not been a very good employee in some ways, but even after he says this he continues to display most of the previous behavior, although he begins to say many of the right things. So the question Bob, is as owner, do you appoint the person who claims to have seen the error of his ways do to forgiving him, or do you appoint the person who has demonstrated years of understanding, wisdom and loyalty. In case you have missed the point, you as a citizen ARE the (partial) owner of this country. Who do you support and why? You seem to be stuck on supporting a person based on that you went to school together and you should forgive them. I gotta say Bob, I have listened with interest in the past to many things you have had to say, and this entire conversation is convincing me more and more that I should give no heed to anything you have to say, because of the absolutley abysmal lack of judgment you are showing. NOT because you support Mitt, but because of your flimsy excuses and pathetic reasons for doing so.

You see O.I., I suspect your part of that machine, unwittingly perhaps! But I wonder if your here incognito spreading false rumors about a man, a man just like you who made a few mistakes in his life, and has admitted it. He has sought forgiveness, and your trying your hardest to talk the rest of us into "not" forgiving the man, by continually reminding us of his supposed sins! Has he been excommunicated because of his statements, his "sins?"It is not about forgiveness, I don;t know how many time Lundbaek and I have to repeat that. And you suspect I am part of the machine. Brother. look in the mirror and open your eyes.

O.I. it doesn't bother me that you won't vote for the man, I just find it interesting you won't forgive him?Again, you have ears and refuse to hear, eyes and refuse to see, a mind and refuse to comprehend. Why is that? I forgive him, why can't you?Your casting unrighteous judgment on whether I have forgiven Mitt or not. That doesn;t mean I support putting him into a position of the highest trust in the land ahead of those eminently more qualified. Whcih is really about anyone. Is it because you have an agenda beyond the possibility of him getting elected, are you secretly supporting your ldg favorite?If you are referring to Ron paul as an LDG, then you sir are a moron and I have nothing more to say to you. Are you yourself a member of the CFR, an LDG?Lol, in the scheme of things I am a nobody. Just a very tired and discouraged nobody who is getting tired of trying to save shepp from the wolves, and having the sheep themselves undermine, attack, and ignore every effort to warn them. I've spent better than 20 years of my life doing the best that I know how to do so, and while the success have been sweet, they have also been very few. Of course you would say that I need to sweeten the message, I will get more flies with honey than vinegar. Well, that is Bro. Mitt's area of expertise. the truth as best I understand it is mine. And the truth is sometimes hard to hear, as you are aptly demonstrating O.I., Do "you" appreciate "me" asking those questions?No I don't appreciate anyone making a complete fool of themselves in a public place. It makes me sad to see. Do you think Romney appreciates "you" accusing him like you do, when the proof "exists" that he is constantly being attacked by those same people?I think Mitt does not appreciate having the truth told about him. The evidence is there, and it seems to be you making the unfounded assertions and providing the "third party witness".

I think not, on both accounts!

Bob

I'll be more than happy to discuss anything you want to Bob. This thread has been very revealing as to how your mind works. Sorry to say I think you are a "feel good" Mormon, it feels good to be so self-righteous, to portray yourself as more forgiving, to teach your false doctrines regarding salvation. I don;t think you are a bad person, Bob, but I do thinkg that you are very seriously misled on many fronts. Hopefully we can work through that. But for now you seem as satisfied as a hog wallowing in its own filth, and it is pretty hard to have a meaningful exchange of ideas with such a self-satisfied person.

Kevin

[Original_Intent]

Sharon,

Great post. And I agree with both you and Bob that I am angry far too often. I am not even sure if anger is the right word, I would say it is more such severe disappointment that it is painful. And ongoing pain can shorten a persons temper. It's not a good thing, and something I need to work on, but it is what it is.

As the time gets shorter, and we continue to see more and more signs of the shortness of the time remaining, the pain is also intensifying as I continue to see those who should be gladly working beside me continue to cling to their "false isms" as Bro. Wiik would say. He is another person who seems to, much more than me, worn himself out in trying to awaken people, and is feeling some bitterness due to the meagerness of the harvest. I have to keep telling myself that the worth of one soul is great, and I am very grateful for the few I have been able to help, and also for the great many who have helped me along the path. But that does not take away the bitterness of seeing a beloved brother or sister who seems to be utterly lost in the mists of darkness, or worse mocking from the great and spacious building.

And no, I do not consider myself one of the choice ones who have fully partaken of the fruit. But I am hanging on to this iron rod for dear life, and trying to get to the fruit.

[Mosby]

This is an interesting post, I think that O.I has covered just about anything I could add ( and very well I might add) - but just a few observations if I may.

Tactics:

1. "Why can't you forgive others ? - here's a list of scriptures that teach us to forgive"

- faulty assumption, it implies that anyone who points out Romney's (or any other LDS public figure) inability to stick to, or even know - principles of liberty, is un-Christlike. It also makes the "I'm much more spiritual than you" attitude. It would be just as easy to give you a list of scriptures and writings of our prophets that who show you just how far off the path Romney is- but you would ignore it, as you already have.

BTW- I never remember Mitt asking for "forgiveness" or apoligizing for his immoral (abortion) and un-Constitutional postions- did I miss something?

2. You are full of "hate" -

Classic Hannitization, reminds me of Hannity and Mark Levin's question to everyone who disagrees with them on "the war on terror" - Caller: "why do you hate America"
It may come as a shock to you Bob - but everyone who points out Mitt's many political theory errors in logic does not "hate" him. However it is easier to demonize those you disagree with by accusing them of hatred, rather than dealing with those stubborn facts.

Hate is a mighty strong word personally I save my hate for the truly evil in this world - like satan and his minions, if someone is aligned with this group so be it.

So Bob, you defend Romney- then "why do you hate the Constitution"? - see how easy that is?

3. Bearing "false witness" arguement:

Quote:

If you do not have proof, are you bearing false witness? Quoting unreliable sources isn't proof! Quoting dem and liberal web sites, people with an agenda, isn't proof. Proof will stand up in court, if Romney is a crook, and you have proof, why have you not testified against him? What is the reason you insist on bearing false witness against Romney? Fact is you "don't" have proof, your just quoting others who "themselves" have no proof!

This is one of my favorite, because those who love to quote this scripture/principle forget this one:

"by their fruits, ye shall know them"

Bob, a person's own recorded testimony would stand as a witness against them very well in court, so would their own legislation- Romney has plenty of both to condem him as an enemy to Constitutional government.

4. "How do you know argument" - you weren't there..........

Quote:

Were you wearing Mitts shoes when he was governor? Were you standing near his side when he had to make difficult decisions? Were you standing behind him when the dem/liberal/union machine was attacking him relentlessly, no matter what he did? Are you still attacking him? Will you continue making accusations you cannot prove? Are you going to continue down that false witness pathway?

Bob- How do you know that Hitler was truly evil? I mean didn't you yourself say on this very forum that we should forgive all men? Have you forgiven him? Do you know for a fact that he committed the unpardonable sin? were you wearing his shoes when he took over a destitute country full of starving people?
Were you standing behind him when his enemies were attacking him?
How do you know what difficult decisions he had to make?
How do you know his heart, only God does- so why judge him?

See how easy it is to play that little game?

A while back you accused me of being negative and "attacking" too many people on this forum, I find that interesting because I have made no effort to hide my distain for enemies to freedom and liberty- I will never cease to attack them and expose their evil agenda. If a person is engaged in this work knowingly or unknowingly - they are doing the work of satan- the same goes for those who support them.
I openly declare that I will attack any and all those who seek to take away my freedom - in whatever form they may take- LDS or non-LDS.

Your arguments on Romney are weak and show that you haven't taken the time to study his erroneous positions- instead of addressing the facts you seek to cover this by accusing others of "not being Christ-like enough" - I freely admit that I am now and probably will never be "Christlike enough" during this mortal life- I know this, and I also know about people who like to point this out in others.

Time and time again we have been warned of "men who wear the vestiments of the Priesthood of God- yet inwardly are wolves" Romney's own words and actions condem him.

Support him, apoligize for him, and make excuses for him all you want- but he is what he is- what are you for supporting him and turning a blind eye to his works?

[bobhenstra]

50 years ago President Benson warned us about our LDG's, almost 60 years ago he was warning us about communism. MORE THEN HALF A CENTURY HAS PASSED SINCE THOSE WARNINGS!

Do any of you suppose we got this far "after" those prophetic warnings because of a lack of righteousness in the true church as a whole? Or has it been because of the anger and hate of you few who insist that we all exhibit that same anger and hate against our fellow man?

Simply put, I refuse to partake of your "admitted" anger and hate! My efforts go to helping the poor, doing work for the dead, helping those in crises, teaching those able to be taught, not wasting much time with those who are not yet capable of understanding true principals of Salvation, instead waiting for them to see the error of their understandings, as many have and "all" eventually will! I simply quote the prophets, understanding them is by the Spirit, the same Spirit that is rarely unwilling to push past the anger and hate the few exhibit in the true church. We're all being tested, those who continue in anger and hate will fail the test.

I trust my Lord to do what he has said he'll do. Cleanse the church (Parable of the Ten virgins), no anger and hate will exist in the church after the cleansing! Cleanse the country, then the world (Parable of the Wheat and the Tares), will anger and hate exist after that cleansing? In the Spirit world, those in Spirit Prison will eventually repent and be forgiven, or will suffer the terrible agony of the "Parable of the Potter" and after repent, and then be forgiven, "All", Children of the Most High!

Then I trust our Lord to return to us here in mortality, forgive as of our sins as we repent in this mortal world or in the spirit world, its all the same! And be our Lord and King ruling in a "ONE" world government, already established with a constitution that cannot and will not fail, beginning with this country, that cannot and will not fail. Only our people will fail, "especially" those filled with anger and hate against their fellow man, no matter "who" their fellow man is! Especially those who refuse to spend their time and talents helping the poor and afflicted, instead they concern themselves with events and conditions "only" personal righteousness will solve. If we're prepared, both spiritually and physically, why be so fearful of what one man can do to a sacred document and country our Lord has sworn to protect?

Our type and shadow we must use as a guide is Helaman 6 through 3rd Nephi 8

In third Nephi the righteous Nephites invited the repentant gadiantons to come and live with them! Like the people of Ammon before them, No hate and anger demonstrated, just pure love!

Bob

[pritchet1]

I had a few staff members of my magazine quit, because they insisted I was spreading hate and anger towards the POTUS. All I did for over a year was establish an awareness of what was going on. Not once did I ever say I hated the individual. I did however state I prayed for the POTUS (to let God do His will with him).

Nobody here has stated they hate Mitt Romney. We have stated that we watch his rotten fruits.

I voted for him once, but realized I got disenfranchised as a result, when he backed out of the nomination process. I felt betrayed and used. Then I did due diligence on the man and realized I was being protected from him. Unfortunately with the current POTUS, apparently not enough protection.

Burn me once...

[lundbaek]

I note an insinuation that those of us who concern ourselves with "events and conditions" are neglecting to help the "poor and afflicted". A cheap shot is what that is. And an inaccurate one at that, I'm sure.

I believe this discussion forum was established for the purpose of discussing events and conditons, among other related things. I don't think anyone here would want to read of our help of the poor and afflicted. My wife is just now preparing "meals on wheels" for tomorrow for one family in need, and organizing same for the next couple of days.

In President Uchtdorf's October 2009 Priesthood Session talk he told us very clearly that we are to learn of events and conditons, only in different words. The conference report referenced D&C 88:79 tells us we are to learn of such things. That's everybody's homework assignment - D&C 88:79

Did somebody on this forum admit to hating anyone?

[Mahonri]

Bob in the past has said he is physically incapable of doing anything to help preserve what we have been commanded to preserve. It sounds like the rantings of someone who is feeling guilty for he can't or wont do.

Clearly the discussion on this board is going to focus on the things of freedom, and not as much on parts of the Gospel that don't fit the specific niche of this forum, but as has been said, that doesn't mean that people are neglecting those things.

Besides, President Benson, McKay and Elder Perry have all said that the protection of freedom and the US Constitution is one of the top priorities of LDS, and called it the "Weightier matters of the Gospel"

People that come up with these types of false arguments are either feel guilty for what they haven't done, or feel guilty for what they have. The principles are clear. What Romney has done is clear. His own words condemn him. The excuses people make for him boarder on idol worship.

[p51-mustang]

Ezra Benson taught us this in regards to differences -they are not Hate!

To equate Oswald’s hate and homicidal bitterness with patriotic Americans who happened to oppose some of the policies of the President’s administration was the height of distorted and fallacious thinking. The American people can respect their President, pray for their President, even have a strong affection for him, and still have an honest difference of opinion as to the merits of some of his programs.

Another recent development has been the call for national unity. I believe there needs to be a unity in our land. But it must not be blind, senseless, irresponsible unity. It should not be a unity just for the sake of unity. It needs to be a unity built on sound principles.

[lundbaek]

I can remember 40-50 years ago mostly Presidents McKay, Clark and Romney, and Elder Benson promoting the protection of freedom and the US Constitution, and it seems to me that after that Ezra Taft Benson did most of the ball carrying until he died.

It seems to me that protection of freedom and the US Constitution are not a priority at this time, and are topics not to be discussed in church meetings in the minds of many bishops and stake presidents. I was recently surprised to discover a high priest in our stake who travels about the country doing seminars and talks on freedom and the US Constitution for the National Center for Constitutional Studies. He told me he has suggested to our stake president that he do a fireside presentation tailored to LDSs, and has received no reply. Personally, I would rather the stake president say NO and give reasons, than not reply at all.

A stake president very recently told a close friend of mine that he does not follow event eh mainstream news, and relies on prayer alone in deciding whom and what to vote for in elections.

I realize there are what I consider little hints here and there about freedom and the Constitution, but certainly nothing that would bring the topics back on the stove.

And BTW, I do not hate anybody for this, nor am I criticizing anybody. I acknowledge there are good reasons for this relative silence; reasons which may vary from stake to stake, even ward to ward. I am just sorry that it has to be this way.

[Mosby]

I note an insinuation that those of us who concern ourselves with "events and conditions" are neglecting to help the "poor and afflicted". A cheap shot is what that is. And an inaccurate one at that, I'm sure.

Exactly. Well said.

Or has it been because of the anger and hate of you few who insist that we all exhibit that same anger and hate against our fellow man?

Simply put, I refuse to partake of your "admitted" anger and hate! My efforts go to helping the poor, doing work for the dead, helping those in crises, teaching those able to be taught, not wasting much time with those who are not yet capable of understanding true principals of Salvation, instead waiting for them to see the error of their understandings, as many have and "all" eventually will! I simply quote the prophets, understanding them is by the Spirit, the same Spirit that is rarely unwilling to push past the anger and hate the few exhibit in the true church. We're all being tested, those who continue in anger and hate will fail the test.

Wow Bob, that's pretty cool- perhaps you can just call my Bishop next and tell him that I'm "full of hate" and unworthy to attend the temple next! - Maybe you can have me released from my calling - because I'm "not capable of understanding true principles of Salvation"
Maybe - with your "all-seeing eye" you can tell me if my prayers are sincere enough, I've always wondered and you seem to have far more light and knowledge than I. I mean it's really hard to see through all this anger and hate.

Like I said before- and you neglected to address, it's always easier to demonize those who disagree with your view of the world than to intelligently debate then. Congradulations Bob, you have done a great job from your spiritual ivory tower.

So you love Romney? That's fine with me, but neglecting to address his adversary postion with the principles of Liberty and the Gospel of Jesus Christ (which have all been laid out in this thread)- is NOT an "enlightened" postion. Rather it's a sad justification of a fellow Elder who had the potential and talent to do great things for the nation and got lost in the pride of the world. Your support of him is your own choice- but don't lecture the rest of us for calling out his works of darkness.

It's ok Bob, just forgive him- vote for him and all will be well in Zion

[natasha]

50 years ago President Benson warned us about our LDG's, almost 60 years ago he was warning us about communism. MORE THEN HALF A CENTURY HAS PASSED SINCE THOSE WARNINGS!

Do any of you suppose we got this far "after" those prophetic warnings because of a lack of righteousness in the true church as a whole? Or has it been because of the anger and hate of you few who insist that we all exhibit that same anger and hate against our fellow man?

Simply put, I refuse to partake of your "admitted" anger and hate! My efforts go to helping the poor, doing work for the dead, helping those in crises, teaching those able to be taught, not wasting much time with those who are not yet capable of understanding true principals of Salvation, instead waiting for them to see the error of their understandings, as many have and "all" eventually will! I simply quote the prophets, understanding them is by the Spirit, the same Spirit that is rarely unwilling to push past the anger and hate the few exhibit in the true church. We're all being tested, those who continue in anger and hate will fail the test.

I trust my Lord to do what he has said he'll do. Cleanse the church (Parable of the Ten virgins), no anger and hate will exist in the church after the cleansing! Cleanse the country, then the world (Parable of the Wheat and the Tares), will anger and hate exist after that cleansing? In the Spirit world, those in Spirit Prison will eventually repent and be forgiven, or will suffer the terrible agony of the "Parable of the Potter" and after repent, and then be forgiven, "All", Children of the Most High!

Then I trust our Lord to return to us here in mortality, forgive as of our sins as we repent in this mortal world or in the spirit world, its all the same! And be our Lord and King ruling in a "ONE" world government, already established with a constitution that cannot and will not fail, beginning with this country, that cannot and will not fail. Only our people will fail, "especially" those filled with anger and hate against their fellow man, no matter "who" their fellow man is! Especially those who refuse to spend their time and talents helping the poor and afflicted, instead they concern themselves with events and conditions "only" personal righteousness will solve. If we're prepared, both spiritually and physically, why be so fearful of what one man can do to a sacred document and country our Lord has sworn to protect?

Our type and shadow we must use as a guide is Helaman 6 through 3rd Nephi 8

In third Nephi the righteous Nephites invited the repentant gadiantons to come and live with them! Like the people of Ammon before them, No hate and anger demonstrated, just pure love!

Bob

Thank you, Bob...I thoroughly enjoyed this post and agree with you 100%. What was the statement my Mom used to always say to me?....."you can catch more bees with honey than with vinegar"....something to that affect. And I don't mean to infer that we be dishonest with our "honey". I have come to believe that the greatest attribute I must come to a full understanding of....is loving my neighbor as myself. Sometimes I like to just sit quietly in a crowded area (like the mall) and just watch people...and I wonder what challeges many of them are facing. As a Latter-day Saint, I know full well that the answer to EVERYTHING is the Gospel. Sometimes my heart gets a little heavy, but just for a moment...and then I shake the feeling off and realize that there is something I can do....one step and person at a time. I don't feel hate or anger toward anyone that believes differently than I do...on all issues, not just Gospel related....although, everything of good report is Gospel relataed. Rather...I usually wonder what brought that particular individual to the point he or she is in at this juncture in their lives. There are some things that bring me closer to anger than they should....especially when anyone judges someone as if they really knew the intent of their heart or had knowledge of their thoughts. THAT more than anything can get me riled...and I continue to work on that....and some days I fail miserably! So...I try to keep in mind the four-fold mission of the Church. How can any of us go wrong if we concentrate our efforts on them? What a great emmisary for good we would be then. It's funny (not really), but whenever I have been struggling with anything in life....a trip to the temple does the trick! I know it's often not quite that simple...but it does serve to give one a different outlook. So, Bob, if you need any names to take to the temple...just let me know!

[lundbaek]

To Natasha's question "I try to keep in mind the four-fold mission of the Church. How can any of us go wrong if we concentrate our efforts on them?" I believe this is not all that we are expected to do. Since this forum is dedicated mostly to issues of freedom and constitutional principles, I'll ask how can we justify ignoring the commandments to:

1.) "suffer not that these murderous combinations shall get above you", and "awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this secret combination which shall be among you." [Ether 8:20, 23–24]

2.) "befriend that law which is the constitutional law of the land"

3.) "learn “of things both in heaven and in the earth, and under the earth; things which have been, things which are, things which must shortly come to pass;" and things which are at home, things which are abroad;”

Natasha may not intend to suggest that we focus only on the four fold mission of the Church and forget about maintaining our freedoms, but I find that far many Latter-day Saints consider themselves righteous enough that the Lord will protect them from the ravages of the secret combinations and from the calamities that have been prophesied would afflict America and other nations as well. Many seem to consider themselves too busy to be concerned about the warnings and admonitions given regarding freedom. What I see happening is that otherwise good LDSs are striving to keep all the commandments, but seem oblivious to certain commandments that pertain to maintaining our freedoms. I note a disinterest specifically in the commandments regarding freedom and constitutional principles.

For what it's worth, a friend wrote to me and a few others that this past Sunday in sacrament meeting his bishop spoke about the Book of Mormon examples of secret combinations both then and now, conspiracy, etc.

[Mosby]

Natasha may not intend to suggest that we focus only on the four fold mission of the Church and forget about maintaining our freedoms, but I find that far many Latter-day Saints consider themselves righteous enough that the Lord will protect them from the ravages of the secret combinations and from the calamities that have been prophesied would afflict America and other nations as well. Many seem to consider themselves too busy to be concerned about the warnings and admonitions given regarding freedom. What I see happening is that otherwise good LDSs are striving to keep all the commandments, but seem oblivious to certain commandments that pertain to maintaining our freedoms. I note a disinterest specifically in the commandments regarding freedom and constitutional principles.

Great post, I find this attitude displayed by Natasha and Bob curious- it seems that in their eyes if we question anyone or their motives - then somehow we are lacking in our own personal righteousness or "full of hate" as Bob has stated. It reminds me of those LDS folks that like to quote the scripture "Judge not, lest ye be judged".......well, as Paul Harvey would say - here's the "rest of the story" - that scripture is correctly translated by J.S as reading "Judge not unrighteously" as well throughout the Bible and the Doctrine and Covenants we are told to "judge as to the things of righteousness, and evil".

As well we are taught in the Doctrine and Covenants to "waste and wear out our lives in bring the hidden things of darkness to light" I'm always surprised when I'm taken to task for pointing out those who are enemies to the kingdom or God- or accused of being less than charitable.

Identifying evil and it's many forms (no matter how subtle or cleverly disguised) is central to our spiritual survival not only as an individual - but as a people as well. Those who fail to correctly identify satan's lies and "conpromises" will certainly pay a price- this is unfortunate for Latter Day Saints because we have been given so many tools, and warnings about those who would come among us and decieve us with pleasing and flattering words and doctrines.

My mission president was a great man- completely inspired by the Holy Ghost and a man who I resepect greatly, he had a famous saying that I love:

He said: "Elders- I love you, I love you all- but I'm not gonna "love" you down to hell"

I have found this simple statement very helpful in my life.

[Original_Intent]

It's good to keep your focus on the four fold mission of the church.

I assure you, Satan does the same, and probably his most valuable tool for interfering with that mission is through government that deprives us of agency.

How many saints have been saved in China and Russian under Communism?
How much work for the dead were done in those two countries?
How well was the gospel able to be spread under those regimes?
How well were the poor assisted? (Plenty of poor were created and people were kept poor and needy.)

Silly people who think they can neglect their civic responsibilities and still be blessed with freedom! Blessings are predicated upon obedience to the law upon which they are based! Political blessings come by following correct political principles! You cannot be blessed with freedom by temple attendance alone! Indeed, your negligence could lead to your losing the privilege of going to the temple!!!

If you say that this could not happen here, then you are a blind fool! Yes the gadiantons want power, but never never forget who the ultimate master of the gadiantons is! And when they have complete power over you, do you believe that God is going to save you when you have ignored the words and warnings of the prophets? Do you think it "won't matter" because if you are killed you are going to heaven due to your great righteousness? Or are you going to be called before the judgment bar and asked why you allowed such suffering and also HINDERED the four fold mission of the church by neglecting your duties?

I've said enough. Go back to your happy place, may the chains of your bondage rest lightly upon you.

[lundbaek]

"Therefore, as in the past, we urge members of the Church to be full participants in political, governmental and community affairs. Members of the church are under special obligation to seek out and then uphold those leaders who are "wise", "good", and "honest". We wish to reiterate the divine counsel that members "should be anxiously engaged in a good cause and do many things of their own free will, and bring to pass much righteousness" while using gospel principles as a guide.". (From a First Presidency statement in 1998: Ensign, Apr 1998, pg. 7)

"We encourage Latter-day Saints throughout the nation to familiarize themselves with the Constitution. They should focus attention on it by reading and studying it. They should ponder the blessings that come through it. They should recommit themselves to its principles and be prepared to defend it and the freedom it provides. (D&C 109:54.) Because some Americans have not kept faith with our Founding Fathers, the Constitution faces severe challenges. Those who do not prize individual freedom are trying to erode its great principles. We believe the Constitution will stand, but it will take the efforts of patriotic and dedicated Americans to uphold it. . . . We, as Latter-day Saints, must be vigilant in doing our part to preserve the Constitution and safeguard the way of life it makes possible." (From a First Presidency letter of January 1987)

I can understand how one might think these commandments are no longer binding on us. IMO, one big reason we no longer hear and read such admonitions is because it is too late to do much of anything to halt our slide into the NWO. The best I can hope for is to awaken and help prepare some of later generations to restore the form of government the Lord intended us to have after the "cleansing". I think that is our "hope". My guess is that the First Presidency knows this and is working now to prepare as many as possible to survive the "cleansing" spiritually and temporally, and avoiding provocations that would lead to attacks against the Church by the LDGs

[moonwhim]

This is a quote of Pres Hinckley's that I quoted in an earlier post, but think it is relevant here:

President Hinckley from his book "Standing for Something"


"Teach them the beauty of freedoms - the marvelous freedoms established by the Bill of Rights, the first ten amendments to the Constitution of this nation........In leadership, in standing for principle, there is loneliness. But men and women of integrity must live with their convictions. Unless they do so, they are miserable.....Never in the history of the world has there been a more profound need for leaders of principle to step forward. Never before, at least not in our generation, have the forces of evil been so blatant, so brazen, so agressive as they are at the present time......We are involved in an intense battle. It is a battle between right and wrong, between truth and error, between the design of the Almighty on the one hand and that of Lucifer on the other. For that reason we desperately need men and women who, in their individual spheres of influence, will stand for truth in a world of sophistry. I have lived long enough to know that many political campaigns, for example, are the same. I have heard again and again the sweet talk that leads to victory but never seems to be realized thereafter. We need moral men and women, people who stand on principle, to be involved in the political process. Otherwise, we abdicate power to those whose designs are alomost entirely selfish.....We don't have the luxury of retreating to our private cloisters and pursuing only our special private interests. Strong voices are needed. The weight of our stance may be enough to tip the scales in the direction of truth and right."

[lundbaek]

Moonwhim, Thanks for that quote from President Hinkley. Could you please give us a page number for that above Statement by President Hinkley. I have a use for it, but would like to cite the page number.

[LukeAir2008]

Wear Mitts shoes? I'd rather wear my own thank you! Ive made some mistakes over the years but never have I even come close to publicly supporting and defending the right to kill unborn children. That alone should tell you everything you need to know about Mitt Romney. I don't care if thats what his mother told him was acceptable - a womans right to choose to kill her offspring. Even his recent pre-election abortion flip flop was a party driven decision not a personal one.

I don't take away Mitt's opportunity to privately go before the Lord and seek to be forgiven of whatever mistakes he thinks he's made, if any, but he certainly is not material for public office.

[Original_Intent]

And what is the message of the BoM? Next to being another testament of Christ, the majority of the book is dealing with the wars and largely the political issues of the Nephites. The root of the wars was tthat the Lamanites were taught that their forefathers had the government stolen from them, and they kept coming against the Nephites to claim what they considered their "divine right" to rule. The Nephites went thru carious forms of government but it was always by the voice of the people. When the voice of the people chose wickedness, they suffered. Wickedness was not always doing things like breaking the ten commandments, sometimes it was becoming overly concerned with wealth, slacking in choosing wise and good men to lead them, allowing the gadiantons to get power over them. Certainly the crowning moment of the BoM was the appearance of Christ in the Americas, but please consider that of the entire Book, only a dozen or so chapters are devoted to this subject. When Ezra Taft Benson said that the BoM was as current as the morning paper regarding current events, what was he referring to?

To those who either do not see this or chose to ignore it, please quit trying to dismiss those who are trying to spread the message.

I just find it amazing - people talk about going to the temple, doing missionary work, studying genealogy, etc. And OF COURSE no one ever says things like "ummm, you really shouldn't be doing that." But people mention the constitution and choosing good leaders, and start pointing out why certain presidential wannabes are NOT in accordance with what we have been told and suddenly we are "mean-spirited", "unforgiving", or a whole laundry list of shortcomings.

Go back to doing your temple work, studying your genealogy, and telling yourself how righteous you are and that the Lord will save you when liberty is lost and we are over-run by tyrants. Continue to vote for people based on financial success or that they belong to the same church as you but by all means disregard their record and let their words scratch your itching ears. Hope you enjoy the reunion with your children and descendants when they ask you what you were doing that was more important than preserving their freedom for them.