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Re: Thousand UN trucks at a air force base near Jacksonvill

Posted: June 20th, 2010, 2:55 am
by bobhenstra
Steve,

As I read Marks replies, I see him admitting the Lord will warn "his people" through his prophets, what he or I don't see or haven't seen yet is the Lord warning the "world"through his prophets. President Monson has not yet stood on his tower (TV) and told the world whats coming unless there's proper repentance. Your President Hinckley quote above is to the church.

The idea that Mark hasn't warned those he can warn isn't correct either. His warnings to others depend upon how the Spirit directs him, it obvious Mark has spent some OJT time with the Spirit! He uses the communist threat motif instead of the gadianton format because so few in this world (and amazingly so, even some in the church) will identify with the word gadianton. When the Prophet warns the world, I wonder if he'll use the word gadianton, or the phrase "organized crime?"

The difference Mark and I have is with explosives in the buildings on 911. They "were" destroyed by explosives. I'm able to make that statement because of extensive experience with explosives! I'm not surprised with your findings of traces of unexploded super thermite in the dust, I expected that, fact is I know an explosion when I see one. Mark has little experience in that field, or your field for that matter. I don't hold that against him (or others), they'll learn soon enough.

I count you Steve and many others here as friends. Including Mark, even though we have disagreements. Many of us are able to agree to disagree, and more importantly, still get along.-----Even that Shaggie up North! :lol:

The simple fact is, the Lord has not yet warned the world! When he does, of course we are free to talk about the warnings, just like were supposed to be free to quote the prophets, even though some of our members have decided we're not, and which "dead" prophet they're going to follow, instead of our live prophet. I choose our live prophet,

Thats the way I float my stick!

Bob

Re: Thousand UN trucks at a air force base near Jacksonvill

Posted: June 20th, 2010, 7:09 am
by Rob
bobhenstra wrote:As I read Marks replies, ...

The idea that Mark ...

The difference Mark ...
Good gosh, Bob, Mark can speak for himself. :roll:

Re: Thousand UN trucks at a air force base near Jacksonvill

Posted: June 20th, 2010, 8:30 am
by Mark
Rob wrote:
bobhenstra wrote:As I read Marks replies, ...

The idea that Mark ...

The difference Mark ...
Good gosh, Bob, Mark can speak for himself. :roll:

No reason for the attitude here Rob. Bob has brought forward some valuable info that I have appreciated and benefited from. I like Bob feel that the Lord will speak thru his Prophet when that time is right and he publicly wants to call evil and scheming leaders in this country "on the carpet" for all the world to see. My job is to trust the Lord that he will do things in his own time and until then realize that the Lords agenda is being righteously implemented by those who He has called to preside over His church at this time. If they decide to shake hands with any of these scheming leaders and apply the principles of attracting more flies with honey than vinegar then that is what the Lord would have them do at present. I have no problems with that apprach because i know the Lord is in charge and His will is being done thru His Prophets.

Re: Thousand UN trucks at a air force base near Jacksonvill

Posted: June 20th, 2010, 8:34 am
by Mark
bobhenstra wrote:Steve,

As I read Marks replies, I see him admitting the Lord will warn "his people" through his prophets, what he or I don't see or haven't seen yet is the Lord warning the "world"through his prophets. President Monson has not yet stood on his tower (TV) and told the world whats coming unless there's proper repentance. Your President Hinckley quote above is to the church.

The idea that Mark hasn't warned those he can warn isn't correct either. His warnings to others depend upon how the Spirit directs him, it obvious Mark has spent some OJT time with the Spirit! He uses the communist threat motif instead of the gadianton format because so few in this world (and amazingly so, even some in the church) will identify with the word gadianton. When the Prophet warns the world, I wonder if he'll use the word gadianton, or the phrase "organized crime?"

The difference Mark and I have is with explosives in the buildings on 911. They "were" destroyed by explosives. I'm able to make that statement because of extensive experience with explosives! I'm not surprised with your findings of traces of unexploded super thermite in the dust, I expected that, fact is I know an explosion when I see one. Mark has little experience in that field, or your field for that matter. I don't hold that against him (or others), they'll learn soon enough.

I count you Steve and many others here as friends. Including Mark, even though we have disagreements. Many of us are able to agree to disagree, and more importantly, still get along.-----Even that Shaggie up North! :lol:

The simple fact is, the Lord has not yet warned the world! When he does, of course we are free to talk about the warnings, just like were supposed to be free to quote the prophets, even though some of our members have decided we're not, and which "dead" prophet they're going to follow, instead of our live prophet. I choose our live prophet,

Thats the way I float my stick!

Bob

Don't be so sure of that Big guy. I stayed at a holiday inn express on my last trip! :lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlCLuIwuVgQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgX7i0C-IK4

Re: Thousand UN trucks at a air force base near Jacksonvill

Posted: June 20th, 2010, 8:56 am
by BroJones
You're a good man, Bob, and I appreciate your efforts.

The following from the August 2005 Ensign, by Pres. Hinckley:
The Book of Mormon narrative is a chronicle of nations long since gone. But in its descriptions of the problems of today’s society, it is as current as the morning newspaper and much more definitive, inspired, and inspiring concerning the solutions of those problems.
I know of no other writing which sets forth with such clarity the tragic consequences to societies that follow courses contrary to the commandments of God. Its pages trace the stories of two distinct civilizations that flourished on the Western Hemisphere. Each began as a small nation, its people walking in the fear of the Lord. But with prosperity came growing evils. The people succumbed to the wiles of ambitious and scheming leaders who oppressed them with burdensome taxes, who lulled them with hollow promises, who countenanced and even encouraged loose and lascivious living. These evil schemers led the people into terrible wars that resulted in the death of millions and the final and total extinction of two great civilizations in two different eras.

The Book of Mormon… in its descriptions of the problems of today’s society, it is as current as the morning newspaper and much more definitive, inspired, and inspiring concerning the solutions of those problems….The people succumbed to the wiles of ambitious and scheming leaders who oppressed them with burdensome taxes, who lulled them with hollow promises… These evil schemers led the people into terrible wars that resulted in the death of millions and the final and total extinction of two great civilizations…

Regarding the terms the Prophet used to identify the ldg's, I like his terms "evil schemers" and "scheming leaders." I do not think that "organized crime" did as Pres. Hinckley warned, "oppressed the people with burdensome taxes" or "lulled them with hollow promises..." Yes, the "scheming leaders" who did these actions have been clearly and rather publicly identified in the Ensign, and my concern is that unless we wake up to this threat, our once-great nation may suffer the fate of the Jaredite and Nephite civilizations...

As President Hinckley observed, the Book of Mormon is "as current as the morning newspaper" -- it applies to our day. (Also stated by Elder L. Tom Perry and Pres. Benson among others.)
Ether 8: 17 And it was the daughter of Jared who put it into his heart to search up these things of old; and Jared put it into the heart of Akish; wherefore, Akish administered it unto his kindred and friends, leading them away by fair promises to do whatsoever thing he desired. ["lulled them by hollow promises" -- Pres. Hinckley]
18 And it came to pass that they formed a secret combination, even as they of old; which combination is most abominable and wicked above all, in the sight of God;
19 For the Lord worketh not in secret combinations, neither doth he will that man should shed blood, but in all things hath forbidden it, from the beginning of man.
20 And now I, Moroni, do not write the manner of their oaths and combinations, for it hath been made known unto me that they are had among all people, and they are had among the Lamanites.
21 And they have caused the destruction of this people of whom I am now speaking, and also the destruction of the people of Nephi. [Pres. Hinckley: " the final and total extinction of two great civilizations…"

22 And whatsoever nation shall uphold such secret combinations, to get power and gain, until they shall spread over the nation, behold, they shall be destroyed; for the Lord will not suffer that the blood of his saints, which shall be shed by them, shall always cry unto him from the ground for cvengeance upon them and yet he avenge them not.
23 Wherefore, O ye Gentiles, [Pres. Packer: "this... applies to us in our generation" -- BYU Devotional Jan. 2007] it is wisdom in God that these things should be shown unto you, that thereby ye may repent of your sins, and suffer not that these murderous combinations shall get above you, which are built up to get apower and gain—and the work, yea, even the work of bdestruction come upon you, yea, even the sword of the justice of the Eternal God shall fall upon you, to your overthrow and destruction if ye shall suffer these things to be.
24 Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this secret combination which shall be among you; or wo be unto it, because of the blood of them who have been slain; for they cry from the dust for vengeance upon it, and also upon those who built it up.
25 For it cometh to pass that whoso buildeth it up seeketh to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries;"

Re: Thousand UN trucks at a air force base near Jacksonvill

Posted: June 20th, 2010, 9:50 am
by Mark
Speaking of Cheneys talk to BYU graduates frankly I think people have made a mountain out of a molehill of the event. I read the talk and saw nothing really wrong with it. It actually had some good parts to it. Pres. Hinckley was just being gracious to a govt dignitary. That's what he did over and over to many govt dignitaries who frankly were scum bags in their personal lives imo. The church always takes the high road and practices Christian charity to all they encounter. Being a disciple of Christ means loving the sinner and trying to reclaim souls. That's the Saviors way. Why would that surprise anyone? :?

April 2007 Commencement Address

DICK CHENEY

Dick Cheney was vice president of the United States of America
when this commencement address was delivered at BYU on 26 April 2007.

© Brigham Young University. All rights reserved.

Complete volumes of Speeches are available wherever LDS books are sold.

For further information contact:
Speeches, 218 University Press Building, Provo, Utah 84602.
(801) 422-2299 / E-mail: [email protected] / Speeches Home Page
Well, thank you very much, President Hinckley, university trustees, President Samuelson, Congressman Cannon, BYU faculty and staff, distinguished guests, family and friends, members of the class of 2007.

Thank you for the warm welcome to Provo, Utah—home to one of the finest universities in the United States of America. I’ve enjoyed my time here today. I was pleased to meet with the First Presidency. And it’s always an honor to be in the company of this university’s chairman, a distinguished American and recipient of the Presidential Medal of Freedom, Gordon B. Hinckley.

I count it a privilege to be a part of this ceremony. I’m grateful for the honor that I’ve just received—and humbled, as well. My wife, Lynne, reminded me that I’m not the first in the family to have ties to Brigham Young University or to this state. Lynne’s father grew up right here in Provo, and two of her great-grandparents graduated from Brigham Young Academy, which grew into this fine university.

Further back, only a year after Brigham Young arrived in this valley, Lynne’s great-great-grandmother was baptized into the Mormon faith. She arrived here in a train of 50 wagons of Welsh immigrants and set to work with all the others who crossed the Mormon Trail to make the desert bloom. My wife has done a lot of research, and she’s very proud of her Utah heritage. And, as of today, she has a higher opinion of me, too—now that I have an honorary degree from Brigham Young University.

But this day belongs to the fine young men and women who’ve actually earned their degrees. And I’m delighted to share the occasion with you, and I bring congratulations and good wishes from the president of the United States, George W. Bush.

I’ve had the experience of seeing my own children collect college and graduate diplomas and begin a new journey. It’s an experience like no other. And so, as a tribute, I think we should have a round of applause for all the moms and dads here today as well.

Graduation always produces a mix of emotions. There’s a sense of pride at having set a high goal and reaching it. There’s also a little bit of sadness at leaving a place you love and feeling as though a curtain is falling on a very special time in your life. But there is also a great spirit to BYU, and this university will always be part of you. We had a glimpse of the character of BYU again last Friday, when this campus held a candlelight vigil to remember the victims of the tragedy at Virginia Tech. More than a place of learning, BYU is a community of faith and kindness and compassion.

As you leave your alma mater, you’ll carry many fond memories of your years on this campus. You’ll recall the long hours of hard work in the library and the lab, the sound of the national anthem in the morning and evening, and the teachers and the friends who have enriched your life.

You’ll remember those places you call the Hfack, the Swickitt, the Wilk, and the Marb. I’m told you probably won’t miss your visits to the Testing Center or your dealings with the Traffic Office. But you’ll remember that every year you’ve been at BYU the school has been ranked number one in the category of Stone Cold Sober. And you’ll remember, of course, the Cougar basketball team beating Utah your senior year and the day in the football stadium when you saw Jonny Harline’s answered prayer.

Above all, you’ll carry the distinction of earning a degree from BYU—a place with impressive alumni throughout this nation and far beyond. The values of this school have been a guide to generations. BYU alumni are men and women at home in the world—working and achieving and reflecting great credit on this university and on the LDS Church.

I also want to note that BYU has a lengthy tradition of military honor and service. And this week members of the ROTC in the class of 2007 receive their military commissions, and I want to thank all of them, on behalf of all of us, for the commitment they’ve made. They join the ranks of a great force for justice, freedom, and security—and we’re proud of their brave service to the United States of America.

In addition to those of you receiving your bachelor’s degrees this afternoon, I’m told we have many men and women who have earned graduate degrees, including a number who’ve earned their PhDs. Their presence here reminds me that I was once in a PhD program myself and met all the requirements—except for the dissertation. I’ll get started as soon as I come up with a topic.

After putting in these years of hard effort as students at BYU, something tells me you’re probably not up for another lecture before you leave, so I’m going to keep this short. I know that it’s the custom for graduation speakers to draw from their experiences to share some of the lessons they’ve learned along the way. So as you begin this new chapter in life, let me offer a few thoughts of my own. There is one very practical lesson that comes immediately to mind. It goes back to the year 2000, when then Governor Bush called to ask if I would help him find a running mate for vice president. The lesson I want to share with you is this: If you ever get asked to head up an important search committee, say yes.

That decision seven years ago set me on a path I was not expecting to take. I believed that my time in public office had passed. And my career in politics itself was an unplanned enterprise. On the day of my own graduation from the University of Wyoming, I had no ambitions of holding higher office. If you’d asked me at the time what I planned on doing, I could have described in some detail what the next 10 years would be like. First would be graduate school, then wrapping up that PhD, and, down the road, with luck, a faculty position at a university. It all worked out very differently. Within a few years Lynne and I were living in Washington, D.C., and beginning a journey in government and public life that neither of us had ever imagined.

Many of you will leave BYU today with definite plans of your own. And setting a plan for your life can be a good thing. It keeps you focused on the future and gives you a standard for measuring your progress. Yet I would guess that 10 years from now many of you will find yourselves following a very different course—all because of an opportunity that came out of the blue.

Be on the watch for those certain moments and certain people that come along and point you in a new direction. I think, for example, of the first time I met my friend Don Rumsfeld. It was back in the 1960s, when he was a congressman and I was interviewing for a fellowship on Capitol Hill. Congressman Rumsfeld agreed to talk to me, but things didn’t go all that smoothly. In fact, he pretty much threw me out of his office. Don’s impression of me was that I was kind of a detached, theoretical, impractical academic type. And I thought he was a brash young politician with a cocky attitude. And we were both right.

We didn’t click that day, but later on it was Don Rumsfeld who noticed my work and offered me a position in the executive branch. Later on, when Gerald Ford became president and made Rumsfeld his chief of staff, it was once again Don who gave me a position of great responsibility in the White House. Standing here today, I can promise that there will be people like this in your own life who keep an eye on you and reward your efforts and help bring out your strengths. Sometimes others know better than we do just what our talents are and how we can make good use of them. For all the plans we make in life, sometimes life has other plans for us.

Those of us who’ve been around a while can also recall a few times when life took an unexpected turn, and not always in a positive direction. As I mentioned a moment ago, I received my undergraduate degree from the University of Wyoming. My college experience, though, began at a place called Yale—but I didn’t finish there. Instead, I dropped out after a few semesters. Well, actually, “dropped out” isn’t quite accurate. “Was asked to leave” would be more like it. Twice. The second time around they said, “Don’t come back.”

You, too, may face some disappointing turns of your own—times when you fall short, knowing you could have done better. And when that happens, don’t give up or let your doubts get the best of you. I have met some very successful people in my day, men and women of talent and character who have risen to the very top of their fields. And it’s the rare one who hasn’t had a taste of failure or a false start along the way. Setbacks in life can stop you dead in your tracks or they can inspire you forward. Either way, you’ll look back on them as turning points. They are crucial days in your life when you see the starkest kind of choice and know that it belongs to you alone.

One of the things I love most about our country is that we have such opportunities. America is still the country of a second chance. Most of us end up needing one. And when we’ve gone on to accomplish something, we can be that much more grateful.

And gratitude, in general, is a good habit to get into. It is usually a correct appraisal of our situation. Most of us are able to succeed and to rise in the world because someone helped out along the way—whether it was a memorable teacher or a boss who handed us a great opportunity or the person who took a chance and gave us the first big break in our career. A grateful heart is an honest understanding of all that we have been given and all that is expected in return.

There is always the temptation to forget this, to carry ourselves with an air of entitlement as if good things come to us by right. They rarely do. And life has a way of working out better when we don’t take things for granted, when we have a long memory for what others have given us, when we look for the blessings, great and small, that come with every day we’re alive on this earth.

For all of you, this day in the Marriott Center will forever stand out as a marker of gifts well used and hard work rewarded. It has been my privilege to share it with you and your families. I congratulate you. I hope your future is filled with the kind of happiness you feel today. And, again, I thank the university for this honorary degree. I leave here as a proud member of the Brigham Young University Class of 2007.

Re: Thousand UN trucks at a air force base near Jacksonvill

Posted: June 20th, 2010, 10:52 am
by BroJones
It is not Cheney's talk that I asked about -- it was the BYU administrator's eulogy of Cheney during the awarding of the BYU honorary doctoral degree to the ex-Halliburton-CEO and -CFR-director that I cannot find, anywhere. (CFR= Council on Foreign Relations).
Not on youtube or video at KBYU, no transcript available that I can find, anywhere.

Any help finding this eulogy would be appreciated.

PS -- This "honors of men" talk included praise for Cheney's work to fight deficit spending. However, Cheney is famous for his well-publicized remark, "Deficits don't matter"-- followed by the doubling of the national debt during the Bush-Cheney administration. When Sec'y of the Treasury Paul O'Neill opposed Cheney on this "Deficits don't matter" policy (and on pre-emptive war), Cheney fired him!

Re: Thousand UN trucks at a air force base near Jacksonvill

Posted: June 20th, 2010, 11:20 am
by BroJones
PS -- Mark, I notice that your latest post avoids my recent questions/comments to you.

Let me ask you straight out -- don't you think that Pres. Hinckley identified the "scheming leaders", the ldg's, in his Aug. 2005 Ensign article that I quoted?

Re: Thousand UN trucks at a air force base near Jacksonvill

Posted: June 20th, 2010, 11:34 am
by Mark
DrJones wrote:PS -- Mark, I notice that your latest post avoids my recent questions/comments to you.

Let me ask you straight out -- don't you think that Pres. Hinckley identified the "scheming leaders", the ldg's, in his Aug. 2005 Ensign article that I quoted?

Sure he did Doc. To those in the church who have "ears to hear". :wink: That has not been my point in this whole discussion. I have said that the Prophet will speak with plainness to all the world eventually in exposing the gadiantons of today (Crime Inc.) as a testimony against them when inspired to do so as Nephi of old did. Until that time He will extend an olive branch to govt officials and will continue to treat them with respect and dignity so as to continue the Lords agenda unabated. That is obviously what the Lord would have the prophets do at present so that is what they will do until otherwise instructed by the Lord.

Re: Thousand UN trucks at a air force base near Jacksonvill

Posted: June 20th, 2010, 11:52 am
by BroJones
Mark wrote:
DrJones wrote:PS -- Mark, I notice that your latest post avoids my recent questions/comments to you.

Let me ask you straight out -- don't you think that Pres. Hinckley identified the "scheming leaders", the ldg's, in his Aug. 2005 Ensign article that I quoted?

Sure he did Doc. To those in the church who have "ears to hear".
:wink:

Glad we agree on this critical point, Mark.

That has not been my point in this whole discussion. I have said that the Prophet will speak with plainness to all the world eventually in exposing the gadiantons of today (Crime Inc.) as a testimony against them when inspired to do so as Nephi of old did. Until that time He will extend an olive branch to govt officials and will continue to treat them with respect and dignity so as to continue the Lords agenda unabated. That is obviously what the Lord would have the prophets do at present so that is what they will do until otherwise instructed by the Lord.
I'm not so sure about this part. "Obviously" is not a strong argument.
It may be that BYU was under considerable pressure from Cheney's office -- and BYU administrators simply caved -- and they were somewhat supported at the time in their stewardship...
For example, a photo of the moment Cheney was given the PhD "honors of men" shows that Elder Scott did NOT applaud, nor did his wife -- rather, he had his head down.

I do not think that this honorary PhD to the ex-CEO of Halliburton and CFR-director opened many (if any) doors to the missionaries.

Observe also the TWO on-campus demonstrations permitted at BYU against Cheney's policies -- wholly unprecedented!

Mark - "the Prophet will speak with plainness to all the world eventually in exposing the gadiantons of today... as a testimony against them when inspired to do so as Nephi of old did."

I have called this an act of "drawing the line in the sand" and I agree it will occur. It may cause a "Sifting" in the Church as I think Bob noted.

Re: Thousand UN trucks at a air force base near Jacksonvill

Posted: June 20th, 2010, 2:20 pm
by bobhenstra
May I suggest an indepth study of Alma 17, please take note of the respect with which Ammon treated King Lamoni, a wicked king who had committed many murders!

Was it possible that Ammon, a prophet, a converted man himself, was one who could "see the good" in King Lamoni and Lamoni's people, and had the courage to call Lamoni, his people to repentance?

How Lamoni and others spent their three days in agony, as did Alma the Younger, who also, along with Ammon, become a prophet.

Is it possible that President Hinckley and even perhaps the BYU administration, saw the same good in Dick Cheney, that Ammon saw in King Lamoni?

Is Ammon's successful mission, as related by Mormon, a type and a shadow we might be wise to study and understand, events concerning the same type of people in our day that King Lamoni was before his conversion?

Who among us wouldn't spend "only" three days lying in the mud to have all his sins remitted? Darn good thing "WE" understand that seeking and obtaining the Spirit does the same thing for us-- isn't it? Because we know and understand that The Spirit cannot dwell in an unclean tabernacle, he must cleanse us first. We understand that, right?

Are we not taught to "see the "good" in "all" men (mankind)?" Is learning that true principal one of our greatest challenges?

Bob

Re: Thousand UN trucks at a air force base near Jacksonvill

Posted: June 20th, 2010, 4:24 pm
by bobhenstra
buffalo_girl wrote:
"There must be moderation in "all" things!" Moderation includes "ALL" things political, not moral!
Bob, I agree with you in every respect.
Matthew 18
7 ¶ Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come*; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!
* I read this to mean that we can only progress through opposition. Opposition that has helped me grow the most spiritually has come from other people.

The hardest trials to this point have been the result of how I felt I was being treated by another member of the Church. During those times I have had to stay very close to the Lord, to remain calm, to seek the Lord's direction in how to proceed, and to be pure enough in my thoughts and actions to allow the Holy Ghost to prompt responses to the person or situation. When I have successfully passed through such fires, I find a spiritual 'promotion' on the other side.

When I fret myself, fuss, condemn, lose sleep, lament, and question, I get stuck in the fire.
Matthew 24
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
There is that law of agency which we agreed to uphold. Awful as it is to witness the consequences of wicked men's decisions - unless we are prompted by the Lord to rebuke their actions in Christ's name - we must allow their actions to witness against them.
Alma 14
10 And when Amulek saw the pains of the women and children who were consuming in the fire, he also was pained; and he said unto Alma: How can we witness this awful scene? Therefore let us stretch forth our hands, and exercise the power of God which is in us, and save them from the flames.
11 But Alma said unto him: The Spirit constraineth me that I must not stretch forth mine hand; for behold the Lord receiveth them up unto himself, in glory; and he doth suffer that they may do this thing, or that the people may do this thing unto them, according to the hardness of their hearts, that the judgments which he shall exercise upon them in his wrath may be just; and the blood of the innocent shall stand as a witness against them, yea, and cry mightily against them at the last day.
I cannot imagine anyone giving you, B.G. a bad time over anything. My mental picture of you is as a woman of incredible intellectual and spiritual strength. I would easily compare you to the sweet, honorable lady I knew as Grace. I mentioned her on another post, on a different thread.

I pray Lots of blessings on you my Dear Sister.

Bob

Re: Thousand UN trucks at a air force base near Jacksonvill

Posted: June 20th, 2010, 5:03 pm
by Mark
bobhenstra wrote:May I suggest an indepth study of Alma 17, please take note of the respect with which Ammon treated King Lamoni, a wicked king who had committed many murders!

Was it possible that Ammon, a prophet, a converted man himself, was one who could "see the good" in King Lamoni and Lamoni's people, and had the courage to call Lamoni, his people to repentance?

How Lamoni and others spent their three days in agony, as did Alma the Younger, who also, along with Ammon, become a prophet.

Is it possible that President Hinckley and even perhaps the BYU administration, saw the same good in Dick Cheney, that Ammon saw in King Lamoni?

Is Ammon's successful mission, as related by Mormon, a type and a shadow we might be wise to study and understand, events concerning the same type of people in our day that King Lamoni was before his conversion?

Who among us wouldn't spend "only" three days lying in the mud to have all his sins remitted? Darn good thing "WE" understand that seeking and obtaining the Spirit does the same thing for us-- isn't it? Because we know and understand that The Spirit cannot dwell in an unclean tabernacle, he must cleanse us first. We understand that, right?

Are we not taught to "see the "good" in "all" men (mankind)?" Is learning that true principal one of our greatest challenges?

Bob

Your thoughts here Bob reminded me of the example of the Sons of Mosiah in Mosiah 28. In verse 3 it states that they could not bear the thought that any human soul would perish and the thought that any would endure endless torment did cause them to quake and tremble. Here they are dealing with the blood thirsty Lamanites who wanted to kill them and they extended this caring compassionate plea to bring them into light from darkness. I wonder at times if vengence becomes our priority rather than leaving that to the Lord and extending forgiveness and mercy to those who "despitefully use us".

Re: Thousand UN trucks at a air force base near Jacksonvill

Posted: June 20th, 2010, 10:50 pm
by bobhenstra
Mark wrote:
bobhenstra wrote:May I suggest an indepth study of Alma 17, please take note of the respect with which Ammon treated King Lamoni, a wicked king who had committed many murders!

Was it possible that Ammon, a prophet, a converted man himself, was one who could "see the good" in King Lamoni and Lamoni's people, and had the courage to call Lamoni, his people to repentance?

How Lamoni and others spent their three days in agony, as did Alma the Younger, who also, along with Ammon, become a prophet.

Is it possible that President Hinckley and even perhaps the BYU administration, saw the same good in Dick Cheney, that Ammon saw in King Lamoni?

Is Ammon's successful mission, as related by Mormon, a type and a shadow we might be wise to study and understand, events concerning the same type of people in our day that King Lamoni was before his conversion?

Who among us wouldn't spend "only" three days lying in the mud to have all his sins remitted? Darn good thing "WE" understand that seeking and obtaining the Spirit does the same thing for us-- isn't it? Because we know and understand that The Spirit cannot dwell in an unclean tabernacle, he must cleanse us first. We understand that, right?

Are we not taught to "see the "good" in "all" men (mankind)?" Is learning that true principal one of our greatest challenges?

Bob

Your thoughts here Bob reminded me of the example of the Sons of Mosiah in Mosiah 28. In verse 3 it states that they could not bear the thought that any human soul would perish and the thought that any would endure endless torment did cause them to quake and tremble. Here they are dealing with the blood thirsty Lamanites who wanted to kill them and they extended this caring compassionate plea to bring them into light from darkness. I wonder at times if vengence becomes our priority rather than leaving that to the Lord and extending forgiveness and mercy to those who "despitefully use us".
Yea Mark, I find it a lot of fun to get lost in the Book of Mormon.

Of course, we're remembering that the term "endless torment" is a noun clause (name of a place, another name for Spirit Prison) and not an adjective clause (a description of punishment). One of the mysteries our Lord explains to us in D&C 19:6-12

6 Nevertheless, it is not written that there shall be no end to this torment, but it is written endless torment.

7 Again, it is written eternal damnation; wherefore it is more express than other scriptures, that it might work upon the hearts of the children of men, altogether for my name's glory.

8 Wherefore, I will explain unto you this mystery, for it is meet unto you to know even as mine apostles.

9 I speak unto you that are chosen in this thing, even as one, that you may enter into my rest.

10 For, behold, the mystery of godliness, how great is it! For, behold, I am endless, and the punishment which is given from my hand is endless punishment, for Endless is my name. Wherefore—

11 Eternal punishment is God's punishment.

12 Endless punishment is God's punishment.

Bob

Re: Thousand UN trucks at a air force base near Jacksonvill

Posted: June 21st, 2010, 3:12 pm
by blondenblueeyed
I tried to watch the video however with the big "tusch" and the "meet sexy girls tonight" I turned it off.

Re: Thousand UN trucks at a air force base near Jacksonvill

Posted: June 21st, 2010, 4:18 pm
by buffalo_girl
I pray Lots of blessings on you my Dear Sister.

Bob
I do appreciate your kind words, Bob. This past year & a little more have been challenging, especially as it relates to our membership in the Church - as constituted by the individual people with whom we interact rather than with the Gospel of Jesus Christ and/or the General Authorities.

It seems that newly baptized and endowed members of His Church are given fairly early in their spiritual sojourn, opportunities to have their faith in and loyalty to Christ thoroughly tested. Well, my dear husband is, and has been, facing ongoing challenges for the past couple of years. Rather than finding occasional respite in the process, it seems like the weight, disappointment and stress intensify.

He is bearing up fairly well, and I do see the Lord's hand in healing our relationships with adult children - which is indeed the greatest blessing for all of us.

Though...I think he did have a bit of a jolt in January of this year when - after our 40x100 foot pole barn burned to nothing but twisted metal, melted glass & aluminum, draft horse harness & tack reduced to nothing but bits of hooks, clips, & buckles, smoldering 400lb bales of wool, and the incineration a beautiful 4 year-old mare and her three week old foal - he sought refuge in the Book of Mormon that early morning. The very next chapter in his reading was 3 Nephi 25:

1 For behold, the day cometh that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble; and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of Hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
2 But unto you that fear my name, shall the Son of Righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth and grow up as calves in the stall.


I could hear him asking in his heart, "What is the Lord thinking!?", as he laid the book aside. Later, we read the previous chapter and finished reading 25.

Life as potential "Saints" isn't a glib Sunday picnic in the park.

So...thank you for your kind thoughts.

Re: Thousand UN trucks at a air force base near Jacksonvill

Posted: June 21st, 2010, 5:47 pm
by bobhenstra
buffalo_girl wrote:
I pray Lots of blessings on you my Dear Sister.

Bob
I do appreciate your kind words, Bob. This past year & a little more have been challenging, especially as it relates to our membership in the Church - as constituted by the individual people with whom we interact rather than with the Gospel of Jesus Christ and/or the General Authorities.

It seems that newly baptized and endowed members of His Church are given fairly early in their spiritual sojourn, opportunities to have their faith in and loyalty to Christ thoroughly tested. Well, my dear husband is, and has been, facing ongoing challenges for the past couple of years. Rather than finding occasional respite in the process, it seems like the weight, disappointment and stress intensify.

He is bearing up fairly well, and I do see the Lord's hand in healing our relationships with adult children - which is indeed the greatest blessing for all of us.

Though...I think he did have a bit of a jolt in January of this year when - after our 40x100 foot pole barn burned to nothing but twisted metal, melted glass & aluminum, draft horse harness & tack reduced to nothing but bits of hooks, clips, & buckles, smoldering 400lb bales of wool, and the incineration a beautiful 4 year-old mare and her three week old foal - he sought refuge in the Book of Mormon that early morning. The very next chapter in his reading was 3 Nephi 25:

1 For behold, the day cometh that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble; and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of Hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
2 But unto you that fear my name, shall the Son of Righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth and grow up as calves in the stall.


I could hear him asking in his heart, "What is the Lord thinking!?", as he laid the book aside. Later, we read the previous chapter and finished reading 25.

Life as potential "Saints" isn't a glib Sunday picnic in the park.

So...thank you for your kind thoughts.
Like I said, your a tower of strength, you'll get through it! Everybody has to be tested, the Lord will have a tried and tested people! Its happening now over all the church, we're being tested!

Bob