How to "get out" without sending up "red flags"...?

[Wiikwajio]

I got the Best name for the University.

Knights International Liberty Lobby University.

[Wiikwajio]

No argument there, that's why my family and I are staying put! Unless the "Prophet" says different!

Bob

Which Prophet told Lehi to leave?

Which Prophet told Nephi to kill laban or build a boat?

Which Prophet told Alma to leave?

People that wait for the Prophet may be waiting till they are forced onto the trains.

[Wiikwajio]

But I also think it is wise to have all bases covered, so I am also trying to make wise and reasonable preparations for a bug out scenario should it be called for.

If I could have a piece of land that had a vacation house on it with Green Electricity and water etc. and plenty of room for trailers and tents I would have it near a small town near the Sierras but not too close. I believe Salt Lake City will run with Blood so I don't want too be near there.

[lost ark]

Those who are opposed to bugging out:

If you had been a Jew in Nazi Germany with the means to escape in 1938-1939, would you have?

If you are LDS in 2010 and believe that conditions could get really ugly, would it not be wise to have a plan to take your family to safety?

If AHBL 100, or 50, or 20 miles from you, and it's coming your way, are you going to wait for the Prophet to tell you to leave, or do you think the Lord would expect you to use some common sense?

Just because people prepare to be able to leave, doesn't mean they want to leave. I've grown quite attached to electricity and indoor plumbing. I'd love to watch the world fall apart from the safety of my deck. I just happen to understand many of the prophecies I have read to mean that we (as in my family) will have to leave our home. Your understanding, for your family, may be quite different.

I find it interesting that people who claim to believe in personal revelation condemn or mock others for believing the same.

[Wiikwajio]

show me YOUR Political Religion of the Nation so that I can see how you followed the teachings of the Prophets on this subject of Political Religion.

Here is my political religion as the prophets have spoken of. The Constitution of the United States and abiding by it to the best of my ability. There will only be one church. The church of Jesus Christ. Any others are the whore of the earth. 1 Nephi 14:10
10 And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth.
That to me says that the fact you would consider your "organization" a church until the brethren asked you to change means that it was a part of the whore of the earth.

Nice try.

First: You have no authority.

2nd The name WAS changed to comply with the Bishop and Higher ups suggestion. We are NOT a church. Don't you believe in repentance. Obviously not.

3rd The Church gives money and buildings to the Salvation Army so if all religious Organizations that are not The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are a part of the Great and Abominable Church of the Devil then the Church is aiding and abetting the Great whore of the Earth. So please explain why the Church is helping the Great Whore.

4th. Marxism is the established Civil Religion of America so EVERY member that holds a Social Security Number that is ALSO LDS is a practicing member of the Great Whore of the Earth. Your bias is a two edged sword, BROTHER.

The Boy Scouts of America has religious and political teachings and Doctrines. Are they a part of the Whore of the Earth?

Religious organizations host/sponsor over 60% of the approximately 123,000 Scouting units in the United States and use the Scouting program as part of their youth ministration.[10][11] Officials from various religious organizations—including the Latter-day Saints (Mormon), Catholic, Methodist, Lutheran, and Presbyterian churches—are included on the BSA National Executive Board, its Advisory Council, and the BSA Religious Relationships Committee.

So the leadership of the BSA has members that are a part of the Great Whore of the Earth. Are Church leaders leading us Astray when they encourage membership in the BSA? So your accusations are now sitting on your own doorstep. Hope you can enjoy the flavor.

The Church also has many dealing with other Churches which means they are dealing with the Whore of the Earth on a regular basis according to YOUR interpretation of the Book of Mormon.

Do we need to discuss the Church's associations with Red China and the IRS with its 501(c)(3) status?

Great Whore indeed?

[Mark]

Nice post Mark, I'm impressed.......really

Thanks Bro. I have been hearing about the bug out philosophy from many for the last 20 years or so ever since NWO talk kicked into high gear starting with Papa Bush. My experience has been that many of those who want to head for the hills do so out of fear. We as children of light do not have the time to be ruled by fear. The Lord is counting on us to participate fully in the growth of his kingdom in bringing souls unto Christ both living and dead. It is almost selfish of us to run for cover and leave the "slothful" behind to save our own skins. The prophets continue to ask the saints to be a light unto the world by letting our lights shine. How can I do that if I am hiding out in the wilderness somewhere with my stash of food storage hiding behind a camouflaged trap door?

[BroJones]

Those who are opposed to bugging out:

If you had been a Jew in Nazi Germany with the means to escape in 1938-1939, would you have?

If you are LDS in 2010 and believe that conditions could get really ugly, would it not be wise to have a plan to take your family to safety?

If AHBL 100, or 50, or 20 miles from you, and it's coming your way, are you going to wait for the Prophet to tell you to leave, or do you think the Lord would expect you to use some common sense?

Just because people prepare to be able to leave, doesn't mean they want to leave. I've grown quite attached to electricity and indoor plumbing. I'd love to watch the world fall apart from the safety of my deck. I just happen to understand many of the prophecies I have read to mean that we (as in my family) will have to leave our home. Your understanding, for your family, may be quite different.

I find it interesting that people who claim to believe in personal revelation condemn or mock others for believing the same.

Some very good points -- thanks especially to buff-girl for quoting Pres Packer

power in the priesthood comes through faithful and obedient living in honoring covenants. It is increased by exercising and using the priesthood in righteousness.

Now, fathers, I would remind you of the sacred nature of your calling. You have the power of the priesthood directly from the Lord to protect your home. There will be times when all that stands as a shield between your family and the adversary’s mischief will be that power. You will receive direction from the Lord by way of the gift of the Holy Ghost.

There it is -- from one we sustain as a prophet!!

And Mark -- "hiding behind a camouflaged trap door" -- good idea, man!

[Squally]

Those who are opposed to bugging out:

If you had been a Jew in Nazi Germany with the means to escape in 1938-1939, would you have?

If you are LDS in 2010 and believe that conditions could get really ugly, would it not be wise to have a plan to take your family to safety?

If AHBL 100, or 50, or 20 miles from you, and it's coming your way, are you going to wait for the Prophet to tell you to leave, or do you think the Lord would expect you to use some common sense?

Just because people prepare to be able to leave, doesn't mean they want to leave. I've grown quite attached to electricity and indoor plumbing. I'd love to watch the world fall apart from the safety of my deck. I just happen to understand many of the prophecies I have read to mean that we (as in my family) will have to leave our home. Your understanding, for your family, may be quite different.

I find it interesting that people who claim to believe in personal revelation condemn or mock others for believing the same.

Yes, I have found it surprising on a site with so many informed and intelligent people that there seems to be a fear of personal revelation. We shouldn't just wait till we're told what to do by the prophet. Let's be anxiously engaged. IMHO, I personally think this mindset of waiting to be told what to do is grevious to the Lord.

So, about personal revelation and the prophet---let's do both, follow the Lord directly through personal revelation, AND through his prophet.. The "only" reason I follow the prophet is because of personal revelation that has confirmed it so, in other words, the Lord has told me too. This is what is called Testimony. My Testimony does not come from some person (arm of flesh) or prophet, it comes directly from God through confirmation of the Holy Ghost which witnesses the truth of all things. So testimony is pure personal revelation, right? Our entire spiritual foundation is personal revelation which lead us to testimony in truth. Nobody should join the church because someone tells them too, they join because of personal revelation direct from God that witnesses truth to them. Right!!! So those of you who follow the prophet do so because you have recieved personal revelation that confirmed this (hopefully). Why stop following personal revelation now?

I have recieved many specific revelations in my life that the prophet never gave me. Thankfully, i didn't wait till the prophet told me what to do in every little thing going on in my life.

Children of Isreal who live the law of moses need somene to tell them what the Lord wants them to do. Children of Isreal need to be commanded in all things and cannot recieve personal revelation about anything, everything is about the letter. Children of Isreal could not be trusted to be adults who could recieve personal revelation for themselves. They still needed to be commanded in all things with lots of hedge rules to protect them from making mistakes because they could not be trusted to make righteous decisions through personal revelation, thus the many many laws they followed and the limited priesthood.

We live the higher law now, not the law of moses.... I choose to live the higher law and follow the prophet "and" the Lord "both". I will follow the prophet in guiding us members, and follow the Lord directly for personal revelation for me and my family. If He/he "meaning God, or the Prophet, or Both" told me to move, or prepare in some specific manner, I would. Why do we seem to fear recieving revelation; fear is limiting because faith and fear do not co-exist. Personal revelation and faith is what got you here now, right? You follow the prophet because of personal revelation direct from God that gave you the testimony to do so, right? Testimony is not about fear. Why stop a good thing. Being a member of the church does not stop personal revelation and testimony growth, it magnifies it.

Maybe the difference between the wheat and the tares in the last days will hinge on those who have faith enough to recieve personal revelation and will "follow" what the Lord tells them to do. I will follow quickly when the spirit directs to warn me of danger for me and my family.

[BroJones]

Those who are opposed to bugging out:

If you had been a Jew in Nazi Germany with the means to escape in 1938-1939, would you have?

If you are LDS in 2010 and believe that conditions could get really ugly, would it not be wise to have a plan to take your family to safety?

If AHBL 100, or 50, or 20 miles from you, and it's coming your way, are you going to wait for the Prophet to tell you to leave, or do you think the Lord would expect you to use some common sense?

Just because people prepare to be able to leave, doesn't mean they want to leave. I've grown quite attached to electricity and indoor plumbing. I'd love to watch the world fall apart from the safety of my deck. I just happen to understand many of the prophecies I have read to mean that we (as in my family) will have to leave our home. Your understanding, for your family, may be quite different.

I find it interesting that people who claim to believe in personal revelation condemn or mock others for believing the same.

Yes, I have found it surprising on a site with so many informed and intelligent people that there seems to be a fear of personal revelation. We shouldn't just wait till we're told what to do by the prophet. Let's be anxiously engaged. IMHO, I personally think this mindset of waiting to be told what to do is grevious to the Lord.

So, about personal revelation and the prophet---let's do both, follow the Lord directly through personal revelation, AND through his prophet.. The "only" reason I follow the prophet is because of personal revelation that has confirmed it so, in other words, the Lord has told me too. This is what is called Testimony. My Testimony does not come from some person (arm of flesh) or prophet, it comes directly from God through confirmation of the Holy Ghost which witnesses the truth of all things. So testimony is pure personal revelation, right? Our entire spiritual foundation is personal revelation which lead us to testimony in truth. Nobody should join the church because someone tells them too, they join because of personal revelation direct from God that witnesses truth to them. Right!!! So those of you who follow the prophet do so because you have recieved personal revelation that confirmed this (hopefully). Why stop following personal revelation now?

I have recieved many specific revelations in my life that the prophet never gave me. Thankfully, i didn't wait till the prophet told me what to do in every little thing going on in my life.

Children of Isreal who live the law of moses need somene to tell them what the Lord wants them to do. Children of Isreal need to be commanded in all things and cannot recieve personal revelation about anything, everything is about the letter. Children of Isreal could not be trusted to be adults who could recieve personal revelation for themselves. They still needed to be commanded in all things with lots of hedge rules to protect them from making mistakes because they could not be trusted to make righteous decisions through personal revelation, thus the many many laws they followed and the limited priesthood.

We live the higher law now, not the law of moses.... I choose to live the higher law and follow the prophet "and" the Lord "both". I will follow the prophet in guiding us members, and follow the Lord directly for personal revelation for me and my family. If He/he "meaning God, or the Prophet, or Both" told me to move, or prepare in some specific manner, I would. Why do we seem to fear recieving revelation; fear is limiting because faith and fear do not co-exist. Personal revelation and faith is what got you here now, right? You follow the prophet because of personal revelation direct from God that gave you the testimony to do so, right? Why stop a good thing. Being a member of the church does not stop personal revelation and testimony growth, it magnifies it.

Maybe the difference between the wheat and the tares in the last days will hinge on those who have faith enough to recieve personal revelation and will "follow" what the Lord tells them to do. I will follow quickly when the spirit directs to warn me of danger for me and my family.

Well said, Squally! I'd like to add, that the Lord has ALREADY given us scriptural directives and examples so that we have very significant precedence for seeking the direction of the Lord with regard to relocating and not feeling it is selfish to do so.

We have already talked about Lehi and his family and the people of Ammon. We could add the directive of the Lord in D7c 38, the last words of which state clearly:

Go ye out from among the wicked. Save yourselves.

That commandment still stands. The question is -- will we seek personal revelation how to apply it? and move if the Lord speaks to us personally for our direct stewardships -- OR through the Prophet?

[Henmasher]

Wiik?

I will try my best Brother
First: You have no authority. It is a God given right to call a spade a spade. See it every day in here. If it stinks and has a stripe good chance its a skunk.

2nd The name WAS changed to comply with the Bishop and Higher ups suggestion. We are NOT a church. Don't you believe in repentance. Obviously not. Obviously yes I do. I use the atonement everyday trying to become a better person. Here is the difference, when you make a mistake you abandon the course that took you there. If activities you are participating in are under scrutiny of the brethren and causing you to be dishonest with your brethren, run the other way bud, potiphors wife was very good looking and had her eye on the prize. RUN!

3rd The Church gives money and buildings to the Salvation Army so if all religious Organizations that are not The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are a part of the Great and Abominable Church of the Devil then the Church is aiding and abetting the Great whore of the Earth. So please explain why the Church is helping the Great Whore.Because it is a commandment. Christ himself sought out those who were sick, afflicted, and sinners. He helped them all regardless. No where should the mentality come that if someone is wrong they are not worthy of our help or love. Christ taught that and I presume the brethren that afficiate his Church understand that and do likewise. Why else would I be debating this with you. If I thought you were wrong I should then avoid all contact and encouragement. That is not the plan of the Savior.

4th. Marxism is the established Civil Religion of America so EVERY member that holds a Social Security Number that is ALSO LDS is a practicing member of the Great Whore of the Earth. Your bias is a two edged sword, BROTHER. Established by who? What official document has established so? Please see below

Definition of Civil Religion:In the sociology of religion, civil religion is the folk religion of a nation or a political culture.

Civil religion stands somewhat above folk religion in its social and political status, since by definition it suffuses an entire society, or at least a segment of a society; and is often practiced by leaders within that society. On the other hand, it is somewhat less than an establishment of religion, since established churches have official clergy and a relatively fixed and formal relationship with the government that establishes them. Civil religion is usually practiced by political leaders who are laypeople and whose leadership is not specifically spiritual.

Examples
Such civil religion encompasses such things as:

the invocation of God in political speeches and public monuments;
the quotation of religious texts on public occasions by political leaders;
the veneration of past political leaders;
the use of the lives of these leaders to teach moral ideals;
the veneration of veterans and casualties of a nation's wars;
religious gatherings called by political leaders;
the use of religious symbols on public buildings;
the use of public buildings for worship;
founding myths and other national myths
and similar religious or quasi-religious practices.

America (with a C) seems to be quite Christian in its practice and would appear that Christianity is the "Established" civil religion) Your depicition of an established "folk" religion is a weak attempt to label anyone that believes differently than you. Maybe we should relook at what the characteristics of a political religion are again?
Here are a few:
an intolerance of other ideologies of the same type
a degree of utopianism
the belief that the ideology is in some way natural or obvious, so that (at least for certain groups of people) those who reject it are in some way "blind"
a genuine desire on the part of individuals to convert others to the cause
a willingness to place ends over means - in particular, a willingness to use violence and fraud
fatalism - a belief that the ideology will inevitably triumph in the end

[buffalo_girl]

Revelation received for our families has to be personal. How can a prophet for the entire global Church give direction for every family in every nation?

Would some of us condemn Joseph for taking Mary and the Christ Child into Egypt - of all places - based on a dream?

[Mark]

Those who are opposed to bugging out:

If you had been a Jew in Nazi Germany with the means to escape in 1938-1939, would you have?

If you are LDS in 2010 and believe that conditions could get really ugly, would it not be wise to have a plan to take your family to safety?

If AHBL 100, or 50, or 20 miles from you, and it's coming your way, are you going to wait for the Prophet to tell you to leave, or do you think the Lord would expect you to use some common sense?

Just because people prepare to be able to leave, doesn't mean they want to leave. I've grown quite attached to electricity and indoor plumbing. I'd love to watch the world fall apart from the safety of my deck. I just happen to understand many of the prophecies I have read to mean that we (as in my family) will have to leave our home. Your understanding, for your family, may be quite different.

I find it interesting that people who claim to believe in personal revelation condemn or mock others for believing the same.

Yes, I have found it surprising on a site with so many informed and intelligent people that there seems to be a fear of personal revelation. We shouldn't just wait till we're told what to do by the prophet. Let's be anxiously engaged. IMHO, I personally think this mindset of waiting to be told what to do is grevious to the Lord.

So, about personal revelation and the prophet---let's do both, follow the Lord directly through personal revelation, AND through his prophet.. The "only" reason I follow the prophet is because of personal revelation that has confirmed it so, in other words, the Lord has told me too. This is what is called Testimony. My Testimony does not come from some person (arm of flesh) or prophet, it comes directly from God through confirmation of the Holy Ghost which witnesses the truth of all things. So testimony is pure personal revelation, right? Our entire spiritual foundation is personal revelation which lead us to testimony in truth. Nobody should join the church because someone tells them too, they join because of personal revelation direct from God that witnesses truth to them. Right!!! So those of you who follow the prophet do so because you have recieved personal revelation that confirmed this (hopefully). Why stop following personal revelation now?

I have recieved many specific revelations in my life that the prophet never gave me. Thankfully, i didn't wait till the prophet told me what to do in every little thing going on in my life.

Children of Isreal who live the law of moses need somene to tell them what the Lord wants them to do. Children of Isreal need to be commanded in all things and cannot recieve personal revelation about anything, everything is about the letter. Children of Isreal could not be trusted to be adults who could recieve personal revelation for themselves. They still needed to be commanded in all things with lots of hedge rules to protect them from making mistakes because they could not be trusted to make righteous decisions through personal revelation, thus the many many laws they followed and the limited priesthood.

We live the higher law now, not the law of moses.... I choose to live the higher law and follow the prophet "and" the Lord "both". I will follow the prophet in guiding us members, and follow the Lord directly for personal revelation for me and my family. If He/he "meaning God, or the Prophet, or Both" told me to move, or prepare in some specific manner, I would. Why do we seem to fear recieving revelation; fear is limiting because faith and fear do not co-exist. Personal revelation and faith is what got you here now, right? You follow the prophet because of personal revelation direct from God that gave you the testimony to do so, right? Why stop a good thing. Being a member of the church does not stop personal revelation and testimony growth, it magnifies it.

Maybe the difference between the wheat and the tares in the last days will hinge on those who have faith enough to recieve personal revelation and will "follow" what the Lord tells them to do. I will follow quickly when the spirit directs to warn me of danger for me and my family.

Well said, Squally! I'd like to add, that the Lord has ALREADY given us scriptural directives and examples so that we have very significant precedence for seeking the direction of the Lord with regard to relocating and not feeling it is selfish to do so.

We have already talked about Lehi and his family and the people of Ammon. We could add the directive of the Lord in D7c 38, the last words of which state clearly:

Go ye out from among the wicked. Save yourselves.

That commandment still stands. The question is -- will we seek personal revelation how to apply it? and move if the Lord speaks to us personally for our direct stewardships -- OR through the Prophet?

Let me ask you are question Doc. What would happen to the missionary program of the church if all Saints who were trying to live the gospel decided to head for the hills and leave the wicked behind? How about the temple work done in temples around the globe? You surely don't think the Lord was telling his disciples to remove themselves physically from all the "gentiles" of the earth do you? The church mission would come to a grinding halt without any righteous Saints left to participate in it. Mosby and Bob and I are not talking about the inspiration of moving from one city to another as every righteous Priesthood holder is entitled to. We are referring to leaving society completely and retreating to the wilderness for safety from all the ills of the world ala Jeremiah Johnson style. There is a big difference.

[natasha]

Isn't it kinda like "living in the world but not being of the world"?

[Henmasher]

Isn't it kinda like "living in the world but not being of the world"?

Thats how I take it. I 100% believe that personal revelation is given to those that have stewardships. It is for those stewardships. That revelation has become corrupted as soon as you use the knowledge in a dishonest way. Preparation to bug out is a good thing. Being dishonest about it is not. My thought is that if it is bad enough that you must bug out, then what government worker is going to care who owns 5-10 acres in what canyon or what gulch. If the lord wants you gone he can blind the corrupt and hide you in plain site. Or better yet, protect you because of your righteosness right in the middle of all the evil as evident in 2 Kings Chapter 6
16 And he answered, Fear not: for they that be with us are more than they that be with them.
17 And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.
18 And when they came down to him, Elisha prayed unto the LORD, and said, Smite this people, I pray thee, with blindness. And he smote them with blindness according to the word of Elisha.
He didn't take up arms, he didn't run and hide, he was righteouss and blessed by the lord. Of course the scriptures have stories of those that ran and hid, those that killed, those that would not, and those that used the priesthood to raise water into walls and smite an enemy with blidness. I just beleive that the body of the Church and all good people would benefit more from righteouss priesthood holders than from any amount of guns or hidden food storage. Oh BTW, I have guns and food storage. 8)

[buffalo_girl]

How about the temple work done in temples around the globe?

We feel that we 'got out' according to the Lord's will for us. The only thing that really truly bothered me about 'bugging out' to the wilderness was that the nearest temple would be over 400 miles away.

Lo & behold!, the first phone call I made once we were settled in our primitive digs was to find out what time Sacrament Meeting is held, and I'm told that a temple was planned for Bismarck - right next to the Ward building!!! Since that time, a great many LDS people from all over the US have moved to this remote area. I was called to be a temple worker shortly after the Bismarck Temple was dedicated.

It's quite possible that some people will be 'called out'. That's ok, isn't it?

[natasha]

Of course, Buffalo Girl....good for you for being where you needed to be when they needed a temple worker. I think we're just getting bogged down with semantics.

[Mosby]

Personal revelation/inspiration: yes we all can receive inspiration/revelation for our families and those in our charge- Fathers, Mothers, Elders Q President, Relief Society President, Bishops, etc, etc,......

But that's not the argument here.

Simply put- your revelation/inspiration doesn't trump the doctrine taught by the brethren- period.
So Dr. Jones and those in the "bugging out" camp- answer one question for me:

Why are you "bugging out" ?

Is it because you think that you can give all your time, talents, and blessings for the building of the Lord's kingdom "holed-up" away from the rest of Heavenly Father's children who don't have the blessings of the gospel?

Is it because you wish to bless the lives of those less fournate than you- by separating yourselves from them?

Is it because you seek to do missionary work and the work of sharing the everlasting gospel in a "compound" of like-minded folks?

Is it because you have a bushel-basket in your compound- the same size as your light?

Is it because you "got yours" and now it's time for everyone else to "fend for themselves"?


Or is it simply because you are afraid?


Hugh Nibley makes an excellent point in his book "Approaching Zion" he says "we are all expert at picking and choosing a scripture here, a quote from a prophet here to justify our actions with the gospel"

Nibley's right, anyone who has served a mission can testify to thay, heck we all have done it, and there is alot of that going on in this thread currently. I could drag out scripture after scripture, story after story, and general conference talk after talk- but what's the point? If we fail to understand the Gospel Of Jesus Christ in it's fullness, we are just fooling ourselves and "justifying" our own spiritual laziness.

I find zero eveidence in that beautiful Gospel that "running for safety" in the hills is why Jesus Christ died to give me salvation. I find that theory self-serving and incompatable with the sacrifice of the Son of God.

When faced with certain death and the "end of the world" - did Jesus "bug out"?

Utimately each of us have to decide for ourselves what we will do with the mercy, grace, light and knowledge given to us by the Savior. I want to share it with everyone who doesn't have it, is that dangerous? Is that scary? Is is safe? Yes, Yes, No- but it is what I was put on the earth to do, if I get killed living amongst the "gentiles" so be it. It's not the "end" of Mosby, only the begining- if I remain faithfull.

The choice is each of ours - run and hide, or stay and share. No one can make that decision but you.

[Scarecrow]

I recognize the romance of the scenario where one bugs out to a compound and defends it against the zombie hoards as promoted by James Rawles in his Patriots book, but to me it is an idea that is contrary to the counsel of the prophets as well as being quite unrealistic. I have a much better chance of defending myself and my family here in the city surrounded by members of my ward, than I would out in the boonies alone.

I see the last days playing out more along the line as it was portrayed in the TV show Jericho, where the town survived as a group rather than everyone heading off in different directions to give it a go alone.

When things turn south, I'll need the help of the good members in my ward who are doctors, nurses, mechanics, plumbers, farmers, ex-soldiers, and I hope I will be be of some help to them as well. But removing myself and my family to the boonies to live alone like Swiss Family Robinson, away from the help as well as the inspired guidance of my ward and stake leaders seems like folly.

I've yet to hear any counsel from the prophets directing us to remove ourselves from the safety of the Church; and all the words of the prophets I have read indicate to me that there will be safety in numbers in the last days, so I have no intention of removing myself from the company of my fellow saints. I think there will come a time that we will need to bug out, but it will be en masse as a body of the Church as we "flee to Zion."

[Henmasher]

Mosby and Holyhabanero

First time I've said it on here but Amen brothers. That is the gospel truth right there.

[KalelIsbell]

Mosby and Holyhabanero

First time I've said it on here but Amen brothers. That is the gospel truth right there.

Ditto 8)

[buffalo_girl]

I'm not sure what those of you who oppose the idea that a family might be prompted to leave - what you view as ZION - think those of us 'out here' are doing that's so wrong.

What is this theory in your minds?

[Scarecrow]

One other note: The days are fast approaching where all the forces of evil will be arrayed against all righteousness, and the Church will be assaulted from all directions and effectively be at war. Whether it will be a fight of words and ideals, or a physical fight, I don't know, but what I do know is that I have no intention of leaving the Church and its members to defend itself -- I plan on being right in the middle of it.

[Scarecrow]

I'm not sure what those of you who oppose the idea that a family might be prompted to leave - what you view as ZION - think those of us 'out here' are doing that's so wrong.

What is this theory in your minds?

From my point of view, I have nothing against what you have done. In fact, I can relate— ten years ago, we were living in the Northwest, and felt the impression that we needed to come here to Utah to be closer to the Church.

As I mentioned, I'm speaking more to the Swiss Family Robinson types who read Patriots, and then think its a wise course of action to move to the middle of nowhere. If someone is inspired by the spirit, rather than a book, to move someplace, then I have nothing to say against it. But even still, those are individual cases. As a whole, there is no direction from the leaders of the Church for the members to pack up all their belongings, and move to some remote pieces of land and live there and wait out the coming calamities alone.

[buffalo_girl]

we needed to come here to Utah to be closer to the Church.

I'm not trying to be adversarial. I'm curious as to why some of you feel that 'to be closer to the Church' one needs to live in Utah?

I lived in Utah for 10 years. If anything, I felt more isolated from the Church. The way many Utah Mormons behave sometimes confuses what the Gospel of Jesus Christ has to do with the Church - speaking of the general membership of the Church NOT the General Authorities.

[Henmasher]

I'm not sure what those of you who oppose the idea that a family might be prompted to leave - what you view as ZION - think those of us 'out here' are doing that's so wrong.

What is this theory in your minds?

From my point of view, I have nothing against what you have done. In fact, I can relate— ten years ago, we were living in the Northwest, and felt the impression that we needed to come here to Utah to be closer to the Church.

As I mentioned, I'm speaking more to the Swiss Family Robinson types who read Patriots, and then think its a wise course of action to move to the middle of nowhere. If someone is inspired by the spirit, rather than a book, to move someplace, then I have nothing to say against it. But even still, those are individual cases. As a whole, there is no direction from the leaders of the Church for the members to pack up all their belongings, and move to some remote pieces of land and live there and wait out the coming calamities alone.

Exactly, we have been commanded to stand in holy places. Most scriptural references to fleeing either depict fleeing worldy things or fleeing to the promised land...i.e. we are there. But we are individuals in the site of the Father and collective. He will definitely speak to us differently while keeping the same goal in mind. To bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. I love that quote