How to "get out" without sending up "red flags"...?

[Mosby]

I will stay put in the Salt Lake valley, (even with it's corruption element) where my extended family is, and take what comes. I keep preparing with life sustaining essentials BUT, I realize that we "live between the eternities" and regardless of how we play out our short time here, it is temporary.

Thus, where ever we make our stand, how we live our lives will prove to ourselves just who we really are and what kind of glory we deserve.

The government is tracking us all, probably to an extent we don't even realize.

For some time now I've concluded that it'll take some sort of divine intervention to end this juggernaut to complete satanic-driven totalitarinism.

On the other hand, we are told that the wicked shall destroy the wicked. Perhaps we are headed for a WW3 scenario, (historically plausible when severe economic times are crashing on nations) with the PTB perhaps intending it to be a "limited nuclear war", but, the law of unintended consequences triggers more than they want and .... viola' .... the infrastructure (electronic and otherwise) required to support the government's elaborate survelliance system is rendered inoperable. Further, the means with which to extend power, likewise undermined/eliminated. It fits prophectic utterances regarding the destruction of all nations and pitting neighborhood against neighborhood, people fleeing to and fro, seeking peace, but there is no peace, forced to take up the sword or flee to zion. I conclude it doesn't matter if you live in Logan, Provo or SLC, or some other location where "The Church" is large enough in numbers to establish a functioning "stake of Zion" amidst all the chaos a nuclear third war would bring.

So, I say, each person/family make the best decision for itself and it's unique needs. This "bug out" talk ... I think is wrongheaded. No one is gonna "bug out". If the government is intact and putting it's steel boot on us, it'll be able to prevent any such "bugging out". And if it's "de-fanged", then traveling during such chaos invites attention and trouble. Best to sit tight, with one's ward and stake, therein willl most likely be security.

IMO.

Thanks for that dose of reality and common sense Chip, it is refreshing. Those who are "heading for the hills" with their own "community" would do well to remember how well a gathering of "like-minded" folks has worked in the past ( see Zion's Camp)- they were led by a Prophet and they were tearing each other to bits daily!

Also "bugging out" (sorry guys) doesn't really square with anything I've read from any of our Prophets. ..........unless HE tells us to "bug-out", I'll stay and try my best to make my little corner of the world a better place, build my stake of Zion, and raise my family.

Honestly - If you think that you are doing to find "safety" in a physical place or with a certain group of folks- on your own, you are sadly mistaken - our council has been anything BUT "bugging out", why create our own gospel?

[Stephen]

I was thinking on this recently and wrote up some thoughts....

http://preparenownewsletter.blogspot.co ... guise.html

[durangout]

If I may just share a few things from a dream I had a few of years ago that relataes to this GOOD topic . I have never fogotten the details of that dream. It was a true TEOTWAWKI senario. I was gathered at our chapel with the other memebers of The Church from this area. We were taking refuge together. My family was there and we were all safe albiet tired and a bit "thread-bare". It was night time and I had just come in from a patrol to protect our boarders from the destruction that was going on around us. There was chaos all around us but not with those gathered together. With us, things were somewhat peacful. I could see the night lighted from out of control fires and hear explosions / gun fire in the distance.

The point: Gather with the (flawed) elect. Stand in Holy Places. Get Out Of Dodge--Spiritually. Prepare physically as well.

[Henmasher]

[quote="durangout"]If I may just share a few things from a dream I had a few of years ago that relataes to this GOOD topic . I have never fogotten the details of that dream. It was a true TEOTWAWKI senario. I was gathered at our chapel with the other memebers of The Church from this area. We were taking refuge together. My family was there and we were all safe albiet tired and a bit "thread-bare". It was night time and I had just come in from a patrol to protect our boarders from the destruction that was going on around us. There was chaos all around us but not with those gathered together. With us, things were somewhat peacful. I could see the night lighted from out of control fires and hear explosions / gun fire in the distance.

The point: Gather with the (flawed) elect. Stand in Holy Places. Get Out Of Dodge--Spiritually. Prepare physically as well.[/quote]

Exactly

[Wiikwajio]

Dr. Wiik, I have got to give you props. You definitely walk the walk. I am already thinking up articles of faith for mine.

I deserve no Props. All glory be unto God.

When I wrote the 13 Testaments of Truth I sat down and wrote them in just a few minutes. I did not study or do research. I just wrote them. When I finished I read them and said to myself: I did not write these. I was so overwhelmed I cried. I am tearing up right now thinking about it. It was one of the most Spiritual experiences of my life.

I called my brother, Danny, 13 years my elder, my best friend and founder of the Nevada IAP (He did that because of Joseph Smith's prophesy about the Independent American Party). I told him he had to read them. I called him back and he had not read them yet. I told him to stop everything he was doing and read them. He called me back in a few minutes and told me: "You have ruined my life." He said, "Okay, now what do we do? I cannot just read these and do nothing."

We wrote the Book.

That is when the Church got involved and I was asked to change the name to something other than a Church by "higher ups." I did.

The 13 Testaments changed my life. They changed his life. They changed the lives of my children. My wife. She was already there at 10 years old. She just said: "Yes. Just like that."

My Patriarchal Blessing says that I will "direct the affairs of men." While doing the research for the book I discovered this, by Franklin at the Constitutional Convention. When I read it I was overwhelmed.

Mr. President:
“The small progress we have made after four or five weeks close attendance & continual reasonings with each other——our different sentiments on almost every question, several of the last producing as many noes as ayes, is methinks a melancholy proof of the imperfection of the Human Understanding. “We indeed seem to feel our own want of political wisdom, since we have been running about in search of it. We have gone back to ancient history for models of government, and examined the different forms of those Republics which, having been formed with the seeds of their own dissolutions, now no longer exist. And we have viewed Modern States all round Europe, but find none of their Constitutions suitable to our circumstances.
“In this situation of this Assembly, groping as it were in the dark to find political truth, and scarce able to distinguish it when presented to us, how has it happened, Sir, that we have not hitherto once thought of humbly applying to the Father of lights to illuminate our understanding?
“In the beginning of the Contest with G. Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayer in this room for Divine protection. — Our prayers, Sir, were heard, & they were graciously answered. All of us who were engaged in the struggle must have observed frequent instances of superintending Providence in our favor.
“To that kind Providence we owe this happy opportunity of consulting in peace on the means of establishing our future national felicity. And have we now forgotten that powerful Friend? or do we imagine we no longer need His assistance?
“I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth——that God Governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid?
“We have been assured, Sir, in the Sacred Writings, that ‘except the Lord build the House, they labor in vain that build it.’ I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without his concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better than the Builders of Babel: We shall be divided by our partial local interests; our projects will be confounded, and we ourselves shall become a reproach and a bye word down to the future ages.
“And what is worse, mankind may hereafter from this unfortunate instance, despair of establishing Governments by Human wisdom and leave it to chance, war and conquest.
“I therefore beg leave to move——that henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven, and its blessing on our deliberations, be held in this Assembly every morning before we proceed to business, and that one or more of the clergy of this city be requested to officiate in that service.”

During the continued research I found this, by George Washington in his Inaugural Speech, April 30, 1789:

"No people can be bound to acknowledge and adore the Invisible Hand which conducts the affairs of men more than the people of the United States.”

I no longer had faith in what I was doing. I had knowledge. After that if I failed to act I felt I would be a son of perdition. I can no longer join with religion of the voluntary slavery of Marxism.

Here is what I was given as a gift. We hardly changed a word when we were clearing up my pitiful High School Drop Out English.

Thirteen testaments in honor of the original thirteen united States
“... where the spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.” — II Cor. 3:17

1. We Recognize as Truth that Jesus Christ is the “Supreme Judge” of this Nation and that our freedom and unalienable rights are granted by Him, not by governments; we are therefore authorized by Him to be Sovereigns. (Rev. 1:6 and 5:10)

2. We Recognize as Truth: The Bible, all teachings of Jesus Christ, The Ten Commandments, The Declaration of Independence, The Constitution of the United States, The Bill of Rights and George Washington’s Farewell Address.

3. We Recognize as Truth that our original Constitutional Government was instituted by God for the benefit of man. That it was created by “We the People” and their agents, the Sovereign States, by a contract known as The Constitution of the United States of America.

4. We Recognize as Truth that the federal government is only a contracted agent of the Sovereign States and that if any branch of the federal government violates that contract the Sovereign States, acting in unison, severally or individually, have the duty to redress that violation through State sponsored legislation and enforced action.

5. We Recognize as Truth that if the Sovereign States fail to redress federal usurpation of power that “We the People” have the “Duty.” according to the Declaration of Independence, and the “rights” and “powers,” according to the 9th and 10th Amendments to act in unison, severally or as individuals “to throw off that Government” law by law (and peacefully if possible) and to provide new Guards for our future security.

6. We Recognize as Truth that any form of numerical identification or NAME CHANGE, such as the Social Security Identification Number and/or a NEW SATANIC NAME, of individual Sovereigns or their children is a direct violation of the First, Fourth, Fifth, Ninth, Tenth, and Thirteenth Amendments to the Constitution and is, either a precursor to or in actuality, the prophesied numerical satanic “Mark of the Beast” and we reject them on both legal and religious grounds.

7. We Recognize as Truth that parents are responsible for their children and for their moral standards, education and religious beliefs and that the proper role of parenthood and its Biblically sanctioned duties and restrictions are found within the Holy Bible and that governmental interference with parental authority is in violation of the First Amendment.

8. We Recognize as Truth that no government has the right to force adults or children (under the direction of their parents) into any form of involuntary servitude, except as punishment for a crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted by an informed jury. That involuntary servitude includes, but is not limited to, the forced or coerced indoctrination or teaching of any kind; and therefore, all “education” must be totally voluntary.

9. We Recognize as Truth that the First Amendment strictly forbids the making of any law that would prohibit the free exercise of religion and that any government agency promoting the belief that humanity has no Creator not only infringes on the free exercise of religion but, also undermines the very basis of our Republic which was founded upon unalienable rights given us by our Creator. The Eternal Truth is: If we have no Creator we have no rights.

10. We Recognize as Truth that if we, as individuals, knowingly obey any law that helps to limit our God given Unalienable rights and enslave us, our posterity or any people, that we are guilty of Crimes against Humanity, as defined by the International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg, “[T]he true test... is not the existence of the order but whether moral choice [in executing it] was in fact possible.” We also believe, as stated by Benjamin Franklin, “They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” We, therefore, cannot tolerate even the slightest loss of our sovereignty, rights, or freedom and in the words of Thomas Jefferson, “find nothing so dreadful as voluntary slavery.”

11. We Recognize as Truth that all men are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights. They include: Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness; and that, above all law is the eternal difference between right and wrong; and that, we are personally responsible for our own actions. Ignorance is not a defense against the decree of this Higher Law but knowledge of this Higher Law more fully condemns the educated.

12. We Recognize as Truth that the War Powers Act, Presidential Executive Orders Article I and IV Tribunals, the General Welfare Clause and the Commerce Clause of the Constitution have been blatantly misconstrued and abused by all three branches of the federal government so that they may intentionally abrogate Constitutional limits in order to advance their ever growing tyrannical power.

13. We Recognize as Truth that freedom is not merely the right to choose, but that, freedom is the result of right choices; that freedom is not free and that “We the People” must be eternally valiant, vigilant and perform “Exploits” (Dan. 11:32) if we are to regain our freedoms anti-constitutionally pillaged and plundered by the United States federal government and its agents and assignees including but not limited to: The New World Order, United Nations, Federal Reserve, IRS, SSA, OSHA, EPA, BATF, DEA, NEA and BLM; and/or also confiscated, abandoned and/or forfeited by our State governments.

When these are combined with the Religious Freedom Restoration Act and the First Amendment and religious clauses in the State Constitutions and coupled with LDS doctrine we have a pretty powerful weapon against the Civic Religion of Marxism that is the established religion in America.

Read Civil Religion by Rousseau and then look around you. Place Marxism in as the established religion and tell me that this was not practiced here in the USA.
http://www.constitution.org/jjr/socon_04.htm

When I discovered the whole Civl Religion thing I really started researching. I contacted many Professors around the country and they were, to my surprise, very willing to communicate with me on the subject of Marxism as a religion. Then the Spirit says to me, "Look up civil Religion on "Gospel Links." I laughed it off as ridiculous. So the Spirit says to me, "LOOK IT UP ON GOSPEL LINKS." ANd I laugh it off as even more ridiculous. So the Spirit says to me. LOOK IT UP ON GOSPEL LINKS and say: Okay Okay I will look it up and prove you are crazy! So naturally there is the talk by President Faust on Civil Religion. Once again I no longer had faith. I had knowledge.

After my realization that we were under the established religion of Marxism I could no longer have anything to do with any part of it that I could find a way to avoid. I am still working on many parts of my continued subjection under the tyranny of Marxism. I am fighting for the First Amendment right now but I have been side tracked by the lawsuits with the Cops. I can only do so much. And then I got pulled into the Obamacare lawsuit and still had to finish the criminal case on the traffic tickets. So some thing have to be put on hold but I will get back to that First Amendment issue eventually. I hope.

To be near Marxism was like being near something you are allergic to. It is like being allergic to cats and then having them crawl on you. It makes me physically ill. Now that I know what is physically wrong with me, I got diagnosed last week and have started the treatments and they are helping, maybe I can be around it more and not get sick, I hope so because it really is not something I want.

When you get your religious organization up and running let me know and we can join together in Fellowship. Or you could always just join The First Christian Fellowship of Eternal Sovereignty and become one of the 13 Stripes. We still need a few. The Fellowship really got hurt when my brother was killed. He was the money. I was the brains.

But if not by all means steal from our book anything you want to use except the name. The info is certainly is not mine anyway. It was a gift from above. I am going to have a section on the Fellowship Web Site that lists the organizations that are in Fellowship with us so let me know.

[Mark]

I will stay put in the Salt Lake valley, (even with it's corruption element) where my extended family is, and take what comes. I keep preparing with life sustaining essentials BUT, I realize that we "live between the eternities" and regardless of how we play out our short time here, it is temporary.

Thus, where ever we make our stand, how we live our lives will prove to ourselves just who we really are and what kind of glory we deserve.

The government is tracking us all, probably to an extent we don't even realize.

For some time now I've concluded that it'll take some sort of divine intervention to end this juggernaut to complete satanic-driven totalitarinism.

On the other hand, we are told that the wicked shall destroy the wicked. Perhaps we are headed for a WW3 scenario, (historically plausible when severe economic times are crashing on nations) with the PTB perhaps intending it to be a "limited nuclear war", but, the law of unintended consequences triggers more than they want and .... viola' .... the infrastructure (electronic and otherwise) required to support the government's elaborate survelliance system is rendered inoperable. Further, the means with which to extend power, likewise undermined/eliminated. It fits prophectic utterances regarding the destruction of all nations and pitting neighborhood against neighborhood, people fleeing to and fro, seeking peace, but there is no peace, forced to take up the sword or flee to zion. I conclude it doesn't matter if you live in Logan, Provo or SLC, or some other location where "The Church" is large enough in numbers to establish a functioning "stake of Zion" amidst all the chaos a nuclear third war would bring.

So, I say, each person/family make the best decision for itself and it's unique needs. This "bug out" talk ... I think is wrongheaded. No one is gonna "bug out". If the government is intact and putting it's steel boot on us, it'll be able to prevent any such "bugging out". And if it's "de-fanged", then traveling during such chaos invites attention and trouble. Best to sit tight, with one's ward and stake, therein willl most likely be security.

IMO.

Thanks for that dose of reality and common sense Chip, it is refreshing. Those who are "heading for the hills" with their own "community" would do well to remember how well a gathering of "like-minded" folks has worked in the past ( see Zion's Camp)- they were led by a Prophet and they were tearing each other to bits daily!

Also "bugging out" (sorry guys) doesn't really square with anything I've read from any of our Prophets. ..........unless HE tells us to "bug-out", I'll stay and try my best to make my little corner of the world a better place, build my stake of Zion, and raise my family.

Honestly - If you think that you are doing to find "safety" in a physical place or with a certain group of folks- on your own, you are sadly mistaken - our council has been anything BUT "bugging out", why create our own gospel?

For what its worth (not much I know) I agree with you 2 Brothers. I see a potential danger in this preparations to bug out mentality. It can often (but not always) lead to condemnation of other Saints because they are not as prepared or as awake as we may think we are. It almost borders on elitism at times. That to me is not the way of Zion. Zion is filled with a spirit of compassion and meekness where we are willing to bear one anothers burdens and strengthen the feeble knees and the hands that hang down. It is not an air of superiority expressed by those who are physically and spiritually prepared against those who may not be to that stage yet. It is easy to develop a sense of pride in this type of atmosphere.

Satan desires to separate us as Saints and divide any way he can. He does not seek unity and compassion for ones brother or sister. Exclusivity is his game. The Lord on the other hand gently calls for us to have patience and long suffering and tolerance and forgiveness in an inclusive environment. Always thinking of the welfare of others before ourselves. That to me is the way of Zion. We must pursue that path in order to rid ourselves of the blood and sins of this generation and be prepared to live with those who have forsaken the worlds ways of greed and selfishness. If our lives are taken in the process of extending charity to all so be it. All will be well with us in the end.

[Wiikwajio]

Wiikwajio, I fear I may have mis judged you, and I apologize.

are you willing to post links to the home pages of all of your website, or maybe PM them to me?

Though I am still not sold on everything, nor some of your tactics, I am open to being wrong on those as well, and think you are really on to something in many aspects.

No one has any reason to apologize to me. I am a rude obnoxious old man with PSTD and anger issues. I insult people when I don't even know I am doing it and frankly I am still a mess. My wife cries almost every day from what happened to us when the Cops hurt us. I want to strike out. I want to fight back and all I can do is to work in the SLOW courts and write a few things and post them and look for ways to expose the Cops and the government and the established civic religion of Marxism. It is never enough and I always am angry. So forgive me for not be clear before and thank Brian for kicking me in the teeth when I got out of line.

And let me tell you about my tactics. My tactics are like war. Read the Ancient Art of War by Sun Tzu. If you are in position A then do X. If you are in position B then do Z. etc. etc. My tactics work for ME. I have talents and I use them. You have different talents use them. Work toward YOUR strengths.

People ask me how I do this or that. Well I don't think anyone should d i my way. I think people should do it the Lord's way. I have letters from the IRS that I am not required to file. No one can get those now. There was a one year loop hole when several people got them and the IRS discovered it and they stopped doing it. Let alone the fact that mine were signed by the District Director and there are no longer District Directors ( a requirement to collect taxes by the way that the IRS no longer follows.)

One friend wanted to get rid of his driver's license. He was a Commercial trucker. I told him he was crazy.

I like to make it a bit of game. Start on the path that you cannot see the next step to. Walk by faith. Make your choices and let God make the game for you. The Cops attacking us was a game square. The truck wreck 2 years to the day after the Cops hurt us was a new game square. The interesting things happening with my house right now was another game square. Being made an Ambassador and Attorney General for WPA was a new game square.

This is why my tactics are useless for you except as examples of what you can do if you have a similar game square. I mean if God gives you a chess game and me checkers and Dr. Jones Monopoly what good are my checker tactics for you or Dr. Jones?

That is why I HATE IT when people want me to tell them what to do. If I tell them what to do then they have missed the most important rule of the game. YOU have to walk by faith and learn to communicate with God and embrace all of the difficulties in your life as opportunities. I want to avoid Abinidi like opportunities but I have embraced the FACT if that is what God wants for me then bring it on. One of the most difficult things I am dealing with right now is that I am in this court battle with the Cops. My lawyer thins it may be worth millions of Federal Reserve Notes and yet I know that we could lose completely. That sits on me every day. It is hard to not dream a bit and yet I have to worry that if we lose I owe a lot in medical. So I have to once again let go and let God. That walk by faith path is a daily test and I FAIL all the time. And all the while we have to deal with our own pitiful mortality and mental and physical weaknesses. What an exciting game God established for us. Godhood is the prize so the game is pretty tough, naturally.

And so no, I don't believe that the "popular principles" alone even stand a chance of getting anyone to the ultimate prize. If a person is not involved up to their necks in the War in Heaven battle for liberty then they stand as much chance of exaltation as the slothful servant.

[Wiikwajio]

For what its worth (not much I know) I agree with you 2 Brothers. I see a potential danger in this preparations to bug out mentality. It can often (but not always) lead to condemnation of other Saints because they are not as prepared or as awake as we may think we are. It almost borders on elitism at times. That to me is not the way of Zion. Zion is filled with a spirit of compassion and meekness where we are willing to bear one anothers burdens and strengthen the feeble knees and the hands that hang down. It is not an air of superiority expressed by those who are physically and spiritually prepared against those who may not be to that stage yet. It is easy to develop a sense of pride in this type of atmosphere.

Satan desires to separate us as Saints and divide any way he can. He does not seek unity and compassion for ones brother or sister. Exclusivity is his game. The Lord on the other hand gently calls for us to have patience and long suffering and tolerance and forgiveness in an inclusive environment. Always thinking of the welfare of others before ourselves. That to me is the way of Zion. We must pursue that path in order to rid ourselves of the blood and sins of this generation and be prepared to live with those who have forsaken the worlds ways of greed and selfishness. If our lives are taken in the process of extending charity to all so be it. All will be well with us in the end.

When Joseph Smith prayed before the First Vision he did not do it "Always thinking of the welfare of others" and his selfishness benefitted the world.

A man that cannot take care of himself is not in the position to be more concerned about the welfare of others than himself. The Zion life begins with people that are sovereigns and not people that live in a hive mind lifestyle.

[Wiikwajio]

Thanks for that dose of reality and common sense Chip, it is refreshing. Those who are "heading for the hills" with their own "community" would do well to remember how well a gathering of "like-minded" folks has worked in the past ( see Zion's Camp)- they were led by a Prophet and they were tearing each other to bits daily!

Also "bugging out" (sorry guys) doesn't really square with anything I've read from any of our Prophets. ..........unless HE tells us to "bug-out", I'll stay and try my best to make my little corner of the world a better place, build my stake of Zion, and raise my family.

Honestly - If you think that you are doing to find "safety" in a physical place or with a certain group of folks- on your own, you are sadly mistaken - our council has been anything BUT "bugging out", why create our own gospel?

I cannot bug out. I am stuck here in Vegas and every time I try to leave I am forced to stay here. Finding out where God wants you to be is really all that matters. Alma bugged out. Abinidi stayed. Both of them did the right thing. Nehpi bugged out. Jeremiah stayed. Both of them did the right thing. I will go where YOU want me to go dear Lord. If you are told to bug out then bug out. If you are told to stay then stay. Don't listen to anyone but the Lord.

[Wiikwajio]

I was thinking on this recently and wrote up some thoughts....

http://preparenownewsletter.blogspot.co ... guise.html

Good thoughts,

[Wiikwajio]

Bob, still I think the counsel of Alma 48 applies; no "one shoe fits all."

Dr Wiik, can such a 'church' (following the US Constitution) purchase property? without being tied to YOUR name? also, what address do you use for tax notices etc. to be sent to, pertaining to the property?

That should have sent the red flags flying in every direction. Call it what you want but it is not the Church of Jesus Christ and regardless of contradiction to beliefs it is wrong. Good grief am I the only one that thinks or feels so. Buging out is for those that are not prepared. No where have I seen counsel from the prophets to be prepared to "bug out".

And you can prove it is wrong by quoting what scripture? What official statement of the Church says "it is wrong."

Did not Christ say: For he that is not against us is on our part. How is anything we wrote in Testament of Sovereignty against Christ?

I do know the prophets said:

Let it [the Constitution] be taught in schools, in seminaries, and in colleges. Let it be written in primers, in spelling books, and almanacs. Let it be preached from the pulpit, proclaimed in legislative halls, and enforced in courts of justice. In short, let it become the political religion of the nation. –Heber J. Grant, David O. McKay, Ezra Taft. Benson and Joseph B. Wirthlin

From the Testament of Sovereignty we clearly clarify what we are:

We have established a Christian Political Religion to challenge this Satanic Religion of forced Socialism. The old adage that you must fight fire with fire comes to mind. We have the right to a political religion. After all, the Bible says that the government shall be upon the shoulder of Jesus Christ (Isaiah 9:6). Our Supreme Court has clearly stated that this is a Christian Nation. Our Christian religion has been forced from our schools, our government and our courts by the political Religion of Socialism. The Religion of Socialism has been established and enforced by the Federal government and the only way that a Citizen of the United States of America may “freely exercise” their chosen Christian religion is to first embrace the doctrines of “withholding taxes” (a violation of the law of tithing to God) and by “voluntarily” applying for a Social Security number (the Mark of the Beast). Thus Christianity becomes a subservient religion to the established government religion existing only if homage is first paid to the Religion of Socialism.

And one other comment. Christ established His Church is Israel with 12 Apostles and established His church among the Nephites with 12 men that were not apostles and could not directly communicate with the Apostles. What I established is not Christ's Church nor Christ's gospel. It is exactly what I claim it is above. So if the Prophets told us to make the Constitution the political religion of the nation, and three of them did, why have you not done it yet?Perhaps it is not I that "is wrong." All I did was follow the prophets' teachings that I found AFTER I wrote the Testaments of Truth while researching the book. Then the writings we put together INCLUDING but not limited to the 13 Testaments of Truth went to "Higher ups" in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that were well above the Stake President and I was told it went to the Apostles and I was not told to stop doing it but ONLY to PLEASE change the name from The First Church of Eternal Sovereignty to something else. I did. The Church leadership knows what I have done and am doing and I have not been so much as disfellowshiped.

So in all honesty may I ask: Who are you to make such a judgment that what I have done "is wrong"? By what authority do you make such a judgment since I have been cleared by proper Priesthood authority?

So if you do not approve of the Fellowship you need not join but please show me YOUR Political Religion of the Nation so that I can see how you followed the teachings of the Prophets on this subject of Political Religion.

You see that I have done my homework on the subject. Since you claim I am wrong please show your facts and law that demonstrate that you have so much as a foot to stand upon.

[BroJones]

Thanks for your answers and thoughts, Dr. Wiik... So sorry the police hurt you. There is a member of my family on the receiving end of that-- very painful experience.

I will stay put in the Salt Lake valley, (even with it's corruption element) where my extended family is, and take what comes. I keep preparing with life sustaining essentials BUT, I realize that we "live between the eternities" and regardless of how we play out our short time here, it is temporary.

Thus, where ever we make our stand, how we live our lives will prove to ourselves just who we really are and what kind of glory we deserve.

The government is tracking us all, probably to an extent we don't even realize.

For some time now I've concluded that it'll take some sort of divine intervention to end this juggernaut to complete satanic-driven totalitarinism.

On the other hand, we are told that the wicked shall destroy the wicked. Perhaps we are headed for a WW3 scenario, (historically plausible when severe economic times are crashing on nations) with the PTB perhaps intending it to be a "limited nuclear war", but, the law of unintended consequences triggers more than they want and .... viola' .... the infrastructure (electronic and otherwise) required to support the government's elaborate survelliance system is rendered inoperable. Further, the means with which to extend power, likewise undermined/eliminated. It fits prophectic utterances regarding the destruction of all nations and pitting neighborhood against neighborhood, people fleeing to and fro, seeking peace, but there is no peace, forced to take up the sword or flee to zion. I conclude it doesn't matter if you live in Logan, Provo or SLC, or some other location where "The Church" is large enough in numbers to establish a functioning "stake of Zion" amidst all the chaos a nuclear third war would bring.

So, I say, each person/family make the best decision for itself and it's unique needs. This "bug out" talk ... I think is wrongheaded. No one is gonna "bug out". If the government is intact and putting it's steel boot on us, it'll be able to prevent any such "bugging out". And if it's "de-fanged", then traveling during such chaos invites attention and trouble. Best to sit tight, with one's ward and stake, therein willl most likely be security.

IMO.

Thanks for that dose of reality and common sense Chip, it is refreshing. Those who are "heading for the hills" with their own "community" would do well to remember how well a gathering of "like-minded" folks has worked in the past ( see Zion's Camp)- they were led by a Prophet and they were tearing each other to bits daily!

Also "bugging out" (sorry guys) doesn't really square with anything I've read from any of our Prophets. ..........unless HE tells us to "bug-out", I'll stay and try my best to make my little corner of the world a better place, build my stake of Zion, and raise my family.

Honestly - If you think that you are doing to find "safety" in a physical place or with a certain group of folks- on your own, you are sadly mistaken - our council has been anything BUT "bugging out", why create our own gospel?

For what its worth (not much I know) I agree with you 2 Brothers. I see a potential danger in this preparations to bug out mentality. It can often (but not always) lead to condemnation of other Saints because they are not as prepared or as awake as we may think we are. It almost borders on elitism at times. That to me is not the way of Zion. Zion is filled with a spirit of compassion and meekness where we are willing to bear one anothers burdens and strengthen the feeble knees and the hands that hang down. It is not an air of superiority expressed by those who are physically and spiritually prepared against those who may not be to that stage yet. It is easy to develop a sense of pride in this type of atmosphere.

Satan desires to separate us as Saints and divide any way he can. He does not seek unity and compassion for ones brother or sister. Exclusivity is his game. The Lord on the other hand gently calls for us to have patience and long suffering and tolerance and forgiveness in an inclusive environment. Always thinking of the welfare of others before ourselves. That to me is the way of Zion. We must pursue that path in order to rid ourselves of the blood and sins of this generation and be prepared to live with those who have forsaken the worlds ways of greed and selfishness. If our lives are taken in the process of extending charity to all so be it. All will be well with us in the end.

OTOH -- consider that the Lord commanded Lehi and his family to BUG OUT, to go into the wilderness for their safety.
Similarly Nephi and his family in the promised land.
Similarly Alma and the people gathered at the waters of Mormon.
Similarly the people of Ammon.
Similarly the LDS pioneers, as they fled the country and emigrated West.

It was Obama who said that in America, "we sink or we swim together." I disagree with that philosophy -- I prefer the words of the Lord --
note the words of the Lord in D&C 38:

"The enemy in the secret chambers seeketh your lives... Ye know not the hearts of men in your own land...But if ye are prepared ye shall not fear... And that ye might escape the power of the enemy and be gathered unto me a righteous people...I will lead [you] whithersoever I will...Go ye out from among the wicked. Save yourselves."

Sounds like bugging out -- with your family etc -- is sometimes the right thing to do, guided by the Lord.

[Wiikwajio]

Wiikwajio, are you willing to post links to the home pages of all of your website, or maybe PM them to me?

I have two web sites.

http://www.independentamerican.org/ is constantly active with up dates.

http://www.sovereignfellowship.com/ which is currently a static site but we are trying to get it active but my computer tech is my son and he is simply too busy with work and getting married.

Link away. And I do not know how to put links up to any other sites but I will publish political news stories on IAN that can have links in them.

[Wiikwajio]

OTOH -- consider that the Lord commanded Lehi and his family to BUG OUT, to go into the wilderness for their safety.
Similarly Nephi and his family in the promised land.
Similarly Alma and the people gathered at the waters of Mormon.
Similarly the people of Ammon.
Similarly the LDS pioneers, as they fled the country and emigrated West.

It was Obama who said that in America, "we sink or we swim together." I disagree with that philosophy -- I prefer the words of the Lord --
note the words of the Lord in D&C 38:

"The enemy in the secret chambers seeketh your lives... Ye know not the hearts of men in your own land...But if ye are prepared ye shall not fear... And that ye might escape the power of the enemy and be gathered unto me a righteous people...I will lead [you] whithersoever I will...Go ye out from among the wicked. Save yourselves."

Sounds like bugging out -- with your family etc -- is sometimes the right thing to do, guided by the Lord.

Amen and Amen.

There is a third choice. Stay where you are and have a place to bug out to that is prepared so you do not have to do anything but get there. That is what I would like to do but until the lawsuits are finalized I really have no options at this time.

[Wiikwajio]

The point: Gather with the (flawed) elect. Stand in Holy Places. Get Out Of Dodge--Spiritually. Prepare physically as well.

I wonder how many Mormons would have gathered together with the non-LDS Founding Fathers in fellowship just because they would not consider them elect?

[Mahonri]

Wiikwajio, are you willing to post links to the home pages of all of your website, or maybe PM them to me?

I have two web sites.

http://www.independentamerican.org/ is constantly active with up dates.

http://www.sovereignfellowship.com/ which is currently a static site but we are trying to get it active but my computer tech is my son and he is simply too busy with work and getting married.

Link away. And I do not know how to put links up to any other sites but I will publish political news stories on IAN that can have links in them.

you talked about a university or college you and some others formed? Any info on that?

[Henmasher]

show me YOUR Political Religion of the Nation so that I can see how you followed the teachings of the Prophets on this subject of Political Religion.

Here is my political religion as the prophets have spoken of. The Constitution of the United States and abiding by it to the best of my ability. There will only be one church. The church of Jesus Christ. Any others are the whore of the earth. 1 Nephi 14:10
10 And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth.
That to me says that the fact you would consider your "organization" a church until the brethren asked you to change means that it was a part of the whore of the earth.
Secondly what I have learned is that the advesary will give you 9 truths and 1 lie to catch you in his snares. Why is it you have duplicated the Church of the Lamb of God in several aspects? You manipulate the 13 articles of Faith and replace them with 13 Testaments of Sovereignty!
I can tell you that this are wrong by authority of the Spirit. A slothful servant requires that the brethren tell him what he did needed to be changed to avoid conflict and falling under the category of the whore of the earth. The spirit would never lead you to conflict with what has been established as the only true church upon the earth.
This so called political religion is the flag in which you are falsifying who you are to your fellow man. You are attempting to purchase land and operate under false pretenses and do not practice honesty. Joseph Smith History 1:19
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”Honesty being one of Gods greatest attributes. He cannot lie and is bound by this.

One last thing was that I looked up the definition of Political Religion. Wonder if any of these fall in line with what you got going on and if it was what was meant by the prophets?

Aspects of political religions
Key qualities often (not all are always strongly present) shared by religion (particularly cults) and political religion include

Structural
differentiation between self and other, and demonisation of other (in theistic religion, the differentiation usually depends on adherence to certain dogmas and social behaviours; in political religion, differentiation may be on grounds such as nationality, social attitudes, or membership in "enemy" political parties, instead)
a charismatic figurehead, with messianic tendencies; if figurehead is deceased, powerful successors;
strong, hierarchical organisational structures
a desire to control education, in order to ensure the security of the system
Belief
a coherent belief system for imposing symbolic meaning on the external world, with an emphasis on security through purity;
an intolerance of other ideologies of the same type
a degree of utopianism
the belief that the ideology is in some way natural or obvious, so that (at least for certain groups of people) those who reject it are in some way "blind"
a genuine desire on the part of individuals to convert others to the cause
a willingness to place ends over means - in particular, a willingness to use violence and fraud
fatalism - a belief that the ideology will inevitably triumph in the end
Not all of these aspects are present in any one political religion; this is only a list of some common aspects.

[Mosby]

OTOH -- consider that the Lord commanded Lehi and his family to BUG OUT, to go into the wilderness for their safety.

Big difference Dr.Jones, If i remember the story correctly Lehi THE PROPHET spent quite a bit of time preaching to the people - who then tried to kill him, they left because their lives were in danger. Yes the Lord did tell them to "bug out"- how? Through the Prophet.


Similarly Nephi and his family in the promised land.

Same deal- told to leave by.........the Prophet


Similarly Alma and the people gathered at the waters of Mormon.

Same deal- the People followed......who.......The Prophet

Similarly the people of Ammon.

I think I see a pattern here............who did they follow?

Similarly the LDS pioneers, as they fled the country and emigrated West.

Brigham Young was a ????

Trust me Dr.Jones - I hear you Brother, I spent about the last 15 years preparing, looking and wanting to bug out, it's attractive for sure. However the more I study and listen to the Brethren the more I realized that "bugging out" is just fine if the Prophet gives the order, but the Prophet and the brethren have been teaching us quite the opposite.

Look you can "bug out" if you want - that's fine, you can even claim that you have received a revelation to do so ( I won't debate that as you are the leader of your family) but- "bugging out" for safety is not a doctrine that has been taught by the brethren in our time.

[Mosby]

Nice post Mark, I'm impressed.......really

[Wiikwajio]

you talked about a university or college you and some others formed? Any info on that?

We formed those on paper but did not advance them after I got crippled by the Cops but it is something I am now especially interested in making public since I am now the Attorney General for A Foreign Neutral Sovereign Ecclesiastical STATE known as World Prayers Answered Embassy. De La Haye Apostille: 46255 filed with the Holy See, Rome.

So now we are working with a International STATE. We can be accredited in that STATE.

I wrote to some people about doing a few things including ideas for the official name. We originally formed the Nevada Christian University but now I am more interested in an American or international name or at least one without Nevada in it.

Patrick Henry University

Saint Paul University

Thomas Jefferson University

International Chancery University

Knights of Liberty Christian University

International Chancery University (I like this one because it is "ICU")

International Knights of Liberty University

American Knights of Liberty University

Give me some suggestions. I am now on the hunt. What fun!

[Wiikwajio]

Hey Doc!

Found something you may be interested in:

http://www.ptshamrock.com/covisa.html

[BroJones]

OTOH -- consider that the Lord commanded Lehi and his family to BUG OUT, to go into the wilderness for their safety.

Big difference Dr.Jones, If i remember the story correctly Lehi THE PROPHET spent quite a bit of time preaching to the people - who then tried to kill him, they left because their lives were in danger. Yes the Lord did tell them to "bug out"- how? Through the Prophet.


Similarly Nephi and his family in the promised land.

Same deal- told to leave by.........the Prophet


Similarly Alma and the people gathered at the waters of Mormon.

Same deal- the People followed......who.......The Prophet

Similarly the people of Ammon.

I think I see a pattern here............who did they follow?

Similarly the LDS pioneers, as they fled the country and emigrated West.

Brigham Young was a ????

Trust me Dr.Jones - I hear you Brother, I spent about the last 15 years preparing, looking and wanting to bug out, it's attractive for sure. However the more I study and listen to the Brethren the more I realized that "bugging out" is just fine if the Prophet gives the order, but the Prophet and the brethren have been teaching us quite the opposite.

Look you can "bug out" if you want - that's fine, you can even claim that you have received a revelation to do so ( I won't debate that as you are the leader of your family) but- "bugging out" for safety is not a doctrine that has been taught by the brethren in our time.

WE have discussed the case of Lehi before, and I believe that Jeremiah was the Prophet to the people at the time, while Lehi received personal revelation as a family patriarch, to get his family out of Jerusalem. This revelation came to this worthy father directly, not through the Prophet Jeremiah.

The fathers of the people taught and converted by Ammon followed the advice of the missionary Ammon to leave Lamanite lands -- to bug out -- but the Prophet at the time if I recall correctly was Alma, not Ammon.


So in the scriptures we see that the Lord has repeatedly given the commandment to "bug out", for the safety of his children, and sometimes the revelation to do so goes directly to a family head for his family, and sometimes through the Lord's Prophet and Spokesman on the earth -- for His people to leave.

Each family head has a right -- and a responsibility -- to seek revelation that applies to his family. And I would like to call attention to President Packer's talk at the last Gen'l Conference about this right of the fathers.

[Original_Intent]

Lots of good stuff posted by many. Wiik, all I can say is wow. I know my being impressed means nothing to you but just wow.

I tend to agree with the anti bug-out folks. The time is going to come when people will flee to Utah because it will be one of the few places where Consitutional law and order will be upheld. I don't see how that can happen if everyone heads for the hills or is living in tent cities. I expect once God cleanses his house, Utah and surrounding regions are likely to be one of the more normal, peaceful, and orderly places in the world. So I agree on that point with the anti bug out people.

But I also think it is wise to have all bases covered, so I am also trying to make wise and reasonable preparations for a bug out scenario should it be called for.

[bobhenstra]

OTOH -- consider that the Lord commanded Lehi and his family to BUG OUT, to go into the wilderness for their safety.

Big difference Dr.Jones, If i remember the story correctly Lehi THE PROPHET spent quite a bit of time preaching to the people - who then tried to kill him, they left because their lives were in danger. Yes the Lord did tell them to "bug out"- how? Through the Prophet.


Similarly Nephi and his family in the promised land.

Same deal- told to leave by.........the Prophet


Similarly Alma and the people gathered at the waters of Mormon.

Same deal- the People followed......who.......The Prophet

Similarly the people of Ammon.

I think I see a pattern here............who did they follow?

Similarly the LDS pioneers, as they fled the country and emigrated West.

Brigham Young was a ????

Trust me Dr.Jones - I hear you Brother, I spent about the last 15 years preparing, looking and wanting to bug out, it's attractive for sure. However the more I study and listen to the Brethren the more I realized that "bugging out" is just fine if the Prophet gives the order, but the Prophet and the brethren have been teaching us quite the opposite.

Look you can "bug out" if you want - that's fine, you can even claim that you have received a revelation to do so ( I won't debate that as you are the leader of your family) but- "bugging out" for safety is not a doctrine that has been taught by the brethren in our time.

WE have discussed the case of Lehi before, and I believe that Jeremiah was the Prophet to the people at the time, while Lehi received personal revelation as a family patriarch, to get his family out of Jerusalem. This revelation came to this worthy father directly, not through the Prophet Jeremiah.

Because there is no mention of Jeremiah and Lehi conversing about the subject means that conversation didn't take place?

The fathers of the people taught and converted by Ammon followed the advice of the missionary Ammon to leave Lamanite lands -- to bug out -- but the Prophet at the time if I recall correctly was Alma, not Ammon.

Ammon also was a prophet, as were his brethren, the key word here being "prophet!"

So in the scriptures we see that the Lord has repeatedly given the commandment to "bug out", for the safety of his children, and sometimes the revelation to do so goes directly to a family head for his family, and sometimes through the Lord's Prophet and Spokesman on the earth -- for His people to leave.

Each family head has a right -- and a responsibility -- to seek revelation that applies to his family. And I would like to call attention to President Packer's talk at the last Gen'l Conference about this right of the fathers.

No argument there, that's why my family and I are staying put! Unless the "Prophet" says different!

Bob

[buffalo_girl]

April 2010 General Conference, Saturday Morning Session, The Power of the Priesthood, President Boyd K. Packer - President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles

The authority of the priesthood is with us. After all that we have correlated and organized, it is now our responsibility to activate the power of the priesthood in the Church. Authority in the priesthood comes by way of ordination; power in the priesthood comes through faithful and obedient living in honoring covenants. It is increased by exercising and using the priesthood in righteousness.

Now, fathers, I would remind you of the sacred nature of your calling. You have the power of the priesthood directly from the Lord to protect your home. There will be times when all that stands as a shield between your family and the adversary’s mischief will be that power. You will receive direction from the Lord by way of the gift of the Holy Ghost.