LDS Freedom Forum

There was a conversation about this a while back... here

Both Heber C. Kimball and Brigham Young taught that the calling home of the missionaries was a literal event and one of the signs of the times.

The judgments of God will be poured out upon the wicked to the extent that our elders from far and near will be called home. Or, in other words, the gospel will be taken from the Gentiles and later on will be carried to the Jews. Heber C. Kimball

Do you think there is calamity abroad now among the people? Not much. All we have yet heard and all we have experienced is scarcely a preface to the sermon that is going to be preached. When the testimony of the Elders ceases to be given, and the Lord says to them, "Come home; I will now preach my own sermons to the nations of the earth," all you now know can scarcely be called a preface to the sermon that will be preached with fire and sword, tempests, earthquakes, hail, rain, thunders and lightnings, and fearful destruction. What matters the destruction of a few railway cars? You will hear of magnificent cities, now idolized by the people, sinking in the earth, entombing the inhabitants. The sea will heave itself beyond its bounds, engulfing mighty cities. Famine will spread over the nations, and nation will rise up against nation, kingdom against kingdom, and states against states, in our own country and in foreign lands. Brigham Young

Orson Pratt also taught the same doctrine.

When God has called out the righteous, when the warning voice has been sufficiently proclaimed among tile Gentile nations, and the Lord says, "It is enough," he will also say to his servants-"O, ye, my servants, come home, come out from the midst of these Gentile nations, where you have labored and borate testimony for so long a period; come out from among them, for they are not worthy; they do not receive the message that I have sent forth, they do not repent of their sins, come out from their midst, their times are fulfilled. Seal up the testimony among them and bind up the law."22


(Gerald N. Lund, The Coming of the Lord [Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1971], 42 - 43.)

for a FACT, a friend of mine has his misssion extented to teach the "locals" to "takeover" the duties of the "gengoes" in Mexico

durangout wrote:

Carlos wrote:What is the scriptural justification to assume the church will stop preaching the gospel through missionaries or that they will be "called home"?

There is none. It is based upon something Brigham Young said. Frankly, I don't give it a lot of weight.

I think there is a misunderstanding here. We are living in a period called the Times of the Gentiles. The period when the gospel is taken primarily to the Gentile nations of the world. The Gospel is not specifically preached to the House of Israel and the Jews. This will be reversed at some point. The missionaries will be called home at a point when God decides that the Gentile nations have been warned enough and then will be taken to the House of Israel. The missionary effort will then be directed specifically at the Jews and Israel.

And this I have told you concerning Jerusalem; and when that day shall come, shall a remnant be scattered among all nations; But they shall be gathered again; but they shall remain until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. And in that day shall be heard of wars and rumors of wars, and the whole earth shall be in commotion, and men’s hearts shall fail them, and they shall say that Christ delayeth his coming until the end of the earth. And the love of men shall wax cold, and iniquity shall abound. And when the times of the Gentiles is come in, a light shall break forth among them that sit in darkness, and it shall be the fulness of my gospel; But they receive it not; for they perceive not the light, and they turn their hearts from me because of the precepts of men. And in that generation shall the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. (D&C 45:24-30)

And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. (Luke 21:24)

And the time cometh that he shall manifest himself unto all nations, both unto the Jews and also unto the Gentiles; and after he has manifested himself unto the Jews and also unto the Gentiles, then he shall manifest himself unto the Gentiles and also unto the Jews, and the last shall be first, and the first shall be last. (1 Nephi 13:42)

Its not very wise to say 'Oh, its just something that Brigham Young said and therefore I will give it no attention'. Brigham Young was the Prophet. Brigham Young was schooled and tutored personally by Joseph Smith. I would pay particular attention to what Brigham Young said. And as a matter of fact many of the Prophets have discussed the Time of the Gentiles and how that period will come to an end, not just Brigham Young.

Christ will personally convert the Jews and Israel when he appears to conquer their enemies at the battle of Armageddon. Also, the Muslim world will follow suit. This will be when the times of the Gentiles is completely fulfilled. We probably will not know about this occurrence since it will be TEOTWAWKI for us over here in the states (television, radio, newspaper being non-existent). The Lord's sermons will be preached with desolation upon our nation during this time... it only makes sense that His servants (full-time missionaries) will be spared prior to this upheaval and be called home to be released. After all this, the New Jerusalem will be built and the 144,000 high priests will be ordained with power to go forth to do missionary work before the great and dreadful day of the Lord.

[quote="LukeAir2008"]

I think there is a misunderstanding here. We are living in a period called the Times of the Gentiles. The period when the gospel is taken primarily to the Gentile nations of the world. The Gospel is not specifically preached to the House of Israel and the Jews. This will be reversed at some point. The missionaries will be called home at a point when God decides that the Gentile nations have been warned enough and then will be taken to the House of Israel. The missionary effort will then be directed specifically at the Jews and Israel.

Don't confuse the Jews as the only ones in the house of Israel. As Info Warrior mentioned, The Lord will convert the Jews. We are pulling the House of Israel out of the world with our missionary work.

Our stake was introduced to the new missionary program that which is basically, all inviting, finding, initiation of the gospel is to be done by the members, the full-time missionaries will teach new investigators in current members homes. I look at this as a sifting of missionaries, and the requirements to be a missionary, much like:

Judges 7:5 So he brought the people down to the water. And the LORD said to Gideon, "You shall separate everyone who laps the water with his tongue as a dog laps, as well as everyone who kneels to drink."
7:6 And the number of them that lapped, [putting] their hand to their mouth, were three hundred men: but all the rest of the people bowed down upon their knees to drink water.
7:7 The LORD said to Gideon, "I will deliver you with the 300 men who lapped and will give the Midianites into your hands; so let all the other people go, each man to his home."

Our stake was introduced to the new missionary program that which is basically, all inviting, finding, initiation of the gospel is to be done by the members, the full-time missionaries will teach new investigators in current members homes. I look at this as a sifting of missionaries, and the requirements to be a missionary, much like:

This is the same program we taught as stake missionaries in 1987.

Is this not a "New" program then? We were told that this was new, with new training being involved for the members of the wards. It was reiterated that EVERY meeting, activity, etc would be done with activation or invitation to the gospel as part of the activity or meeting. That nothing would be done unless it had a gospel message to be taught.

Sounds like the same thing we were teaching the members of our ward back in 87-88. We were going into the homes and presenting lessons to the members of the ward on how to invite their neighbors to join the missionaries in their homes. The emphasis was that it is not the missionaries responsibility to find those to teach, it is the members.
The ward was to center all activities around gospel messages, inviting all to come unto Christ.

The day the missionaries are called home will be soon. The dollar is thought to be dead or will have totally collapsed by end of the year 2012. It is said to start collapsing by the end of this year 2010. It is to collapse a minimum of 30% to 50% soon. Go to youtube and search Lindsey Williams and get his latest update. Feb of 2010 is his latest update.

As the dollar collapses all missionaries supported by the dollar will find it almost impossible to proceed with their missions. No money no missions. This will cause the missionaries to be called home..... this is not to say that the LORD did not call them home as he certainly will. We will work up to the last possible minute and then they will be called home. Things will get really bad. Shortly there after we will be called to gather to places of safety, only those wise virgins that have OIL in the LAMPS and those with at least a year's supply of Food will gather. Then a 13 month war will commence destroying America. 1/3 or all humans will be killed in this war and from its affects. Then the earthquake will come and cleans North America of the invading armies. The City of New Jeruselam will be dedicated and many saints will go to help build the new city. Mean while the battle of Armageddon will start and last 3 1/2 years as two prophets preach to the Jews and battle the false prophet of the Armageddon armies. I think you know the rest.......

2012 is a big signification year to these people and they want the NWO in place by then if possible.

I don't have much to contribute to this discussion other than noting that I served in the Austria Vienna mission between '98-'00. The mission has since been combined with the Munich mission. I only know of one elder currently serving from our ward and he's serving in Italy.

7cylon7 wrote:The day the missionaries are called home will be soon. The dollar is thought to be dead or will have totally collapsed by end of the year 2012. It is said to start collapsing by the end of this year 2010. It is to collapse a minimum of 30% to 50% soon. Go to youtube and search Lindsey Williams and get his latest update. Feb of 2010 is his latest update.

As the dollar collapses all missionaries supported by the dollar will find it almost impossible to proceed with their missions. No money no missions. This will cause the missionaries to be called home..... this is not to say that the LORD did not call them home as he certainly will. We will work up to the last possible minute and then they will be called home. Things will get really bad. Shortly there after we will be called to gather to places of safety, only those wise virgins that have OIL in the LAMPS and those with at least a year's supply of Food will gather. Then a 13 month war will commence destroying America. 1/3 or all humans will be killed in this war and from its affects. Then the earthquake will come and cleans North America of the invading armies. The City of New Jeruselam will be dedicated and many saints will go to help build the new city. Mean while the battle of Armageddon will start and last 3 1/2 years as two prophets preach to the Jews and battle the false prophet of the Armageddon armies. I think you know the rest.......

2012 is a big signification year to these people and they want the NWO in place by then if possible.

You mention the "two prophets" that will preach to the Jews. If I had to guess, I'd say Elder Uchtdort will be one of them. What do you think?

durangout wrote:

7cylon7 wrote:The day the missionaries are called home will be soon. The dollar is thought to be dead or will have totally collapsed by end of the year 2012. It is said to start collapsing by the end of this year 2010. It is to collapse a minimum of 30% to 50% soon. Go to youtube and search Lindsey Williams and get his latest update. Feb of 2010 is his latest update.

As the dollar collapses all missionaries supported by the dollar will find it almost impossible to proceed with their missions. No money no missions. This will cause the missionaries to be called home..... this is not to say that the LORD did not call them home as he certainly will. We will work up to the last possible minute and then they will be called home. Things will get really bad. Shortly there after we will be called to gather to places of safety, only those wise virgins that have OIL in the LAMPS and those with at least a year's supply of Food will gather. Then a 13 month war will commence destroying America. 1/3 or all humans will be killed in this war and from its affects. Then the earthquake will come and cleans North America of the invading armies. The City of New Jeruselam will be dedicated and many saints will go to help build the new city. Mean while the battle of Armageddon will start and last 3 1/2 years as two prophets preach to the Jews and battle the false prophet of the Armageddon armies. I think you know the rest.......

2012 is a big signification year to these people and they want the NWO in place by then if possible.

You mention the "two prophets" that will preach to the Jews. If I had to guess, I'd say Elder Uchtdort will be one of them. What do you think?

interesting thought. why do you think this?

Geeswell wrote:

durangout wrote:

7cylon7 wrote: You mention the "two prophets" that will preach to the Jews. If I had to guess, I'd say Elder Uchtdort will be one of them. What do you think?

interesting thought. why do you think this?

Geeswell: Sorry for taking so long to reply but I got sidetracked each time I intended to do so. First let me say I know my reasoning here is like swiss cheese: full of holes. Anywho, here goes.

D&C 77:15 Q. What is to be understood by the two witnesses, in the eleventh chapter of Revelation?
A. They are two prophets that are to be raised up to the Jewish nation in the last days, at the time of the restoration, and to prophesy to the Jews after they are gathered and have built the city of Jerusalem in the land of their fathers.

We know they are "prophets" so in my book they could only be of the First Presidency or the Quourum of the 12. The Pres. of The Church is out because he will be running the church, possibly have special duties to perform (i.e delivering keys at Adam-Ondi-Ahman), etc.. Because of the possible date of Armegeddon of around 2033, I feel most of the older apostles would be out of the question because of death or ill heath for example Elder Packer. I next thought who of the apostles CONSISTANTLY blows me away (in a a spiritual sense ) with their doctrine/preaching? Withouth hesitation Elders Utchdorf and Bednar. Which leads me to Utchdorf because he is from Germany and lived through WWII and that would make an interesting "completeness". What I mean is a prophet from the country that tried to exterminate the tribe of Judah has come back to heal that nation.

There ya go. Do you have any other guesses or ideas?

So if you are of the opinion that our missionaries will be "called" home, doesn't that mean you are also of the opinion that there will be a "calling out"? They kind of go hand in hand. I mean, if we were to hear of our missionaries being called home, isn't that pretty much the biggest sign of the times we can think of?

During the time of upheaval of complete economic collapse and natural disasters that will occur while the times of the Gentiles are being fulfilled, our nation will most likely not know about the armies invading Israel. I always wonder how our two Elders (prophets) will arrive in the middle east. Perhaps via teleportation??? Unless they are already living there before all of it.

[/quote]

Geeswell: Sorry for taking so long to reply but I got sidetracked each time I intended to do so. First let me say I know my reasoning here is like swiss cheese: full of holes. Anywho, here goes.

D&C 77:15 Q. What is to be understood by the two witnesses, in the eleventh chapter of Revelation?
A. They are two prophets that are to be raised up to the Jewish nation in the last days, at the time of the restoration, and to prophesy to the Jews after they are gathered and have built the city of Jerusalem in the land of their fathers.

We know they are "prophets" so in my book they could only be of the First Presidency or the Quourum of the 12. The Pres. of The Church is out because he will be running the church, possibly have special duties to perform (i.e delivering keys at Adam-Ondi-Ahman), etc.. Because of the possible date of Armegeddon of around 2033, I feel most of the older apostles would be out of the question because of death or ill heath for example Elder Packer. I next thought who of the apostles CONSISTANTLY blows me away (in a a spiritual sense ) with their doctrine/preaching? Withouth hesitation Elders Utchdorf and Bednar. Which leads me to Utchdorf because he is from Germany and lived through WWII and that would make an interesting "completeness". What I mean is a prophet from the country that tried to exterminate the tribe of Judah has come back to heal that nation.

There ya go. Do you have any other guesses or ideas?[/quote]

That is quite alright thank you for replying! I see what you are saying. I like where you are going. even if it is "like swiss cheese" it is still fun to think about those things. I remember when Utchdorf and Bednar were called up and I remember feeling very impressed. not that the others weren't or aren't impressive, but they have their own experiences and abilities that the Lord will use to further his work. It would be very fitting for them to be the ones to do it, and I understand the age thing too. makes sense.

I have to say tho, Id love to see a lion like Holland there. can you imagine the Lord unleashing him over there? I get the shivers when he "pulpet pounds" and I'm not even guilty (generally haha)

I often wonder tho, if Armeggedon is sooner than 2033. I'm in no ways saying that I have any reason to have an opinion. I just can imagine this mess over in the middle east being drawn out that much longer, especially since they have excalated for the past 8 years and even more.

good discussion

InfoWarrior82 wrote:So if you are of the opinion that our missionaries will be "called" home, doesn't that mean you are also of the opinion that there will be a "calling out"? They kind of go hand in hand. I mean, if we were to hear of our missionaries being called home, isn't that pretty much the biggest sign of the times we can think of?

During the time of upheaval of complete economic collapse and natural disasters that will occur while the times of the Gentiles are being fulfilled, our nation will most likely not know about the armies invading Israel. I always wonder how our two Elders (prophets) will arrive in the middle east. Perhaps via teleportation??? Unless they are already living there before all of it.

hmm. good questions. Why would we not know about israel being invaded? I think that is likely to happen much sooner than later. thats my opinion tho, i just read little blurbs here and there and israel is making some bold moves. It seems like with movements by US and Israeli forces, they are poising themselves for some possibly fierce retribution.

id like to know the reasons behind why people are pushing the timeline for this sort of thing out another 20+ years. I havent really sat down and calculated it all. perhaps i'm wasting people's time with my ignorance

I think it will be like the coming of Elijah. Most of the world (and even the Church) wont even know it happened.

durangout wrote: D&C 77:15 Q. What is to be understood by the two witnesses, in the eleventh chapter of Revelation?
A. They are two prophets that are to be raised up to the Jewish nation in the last days, at the time of the restoration, and to prophesy to the Jews after they are gathered and have built the city of Jerusalem in the land of their fathers.

We know they are "prophets" so in my book they could only be of the First Presidency or the Quourum of the 12.

I think this assumption that they must be from the first presidency or quorum of the 12 is wrong. In the scriptures, the Lord demonstrates many times that he can call prophets outside of the formal organization of the church. My guess is that the two prophets "raised up to the jewish nation" will in fact, be jews living in Israel.

geeswell wrote: hmm. good questions. Why would we not know about israel being invaded?

I can answer that one for you.

Cleon Skousen, what we might expect in the next 25 years wrote: “Wherefore, the days will come that no flesh shall be safe upon the waters., And it shall be said in days to come that none IS ABLE TO GO UP TO THE LAND OF ZION UPON THE WATERS, but he that is upright in heart. (D&C 61:15-16 )

This verse would suggest that while America is by violent seas it will be impossible for ordinary people to either fly or sail across the turbulent oceans in an effort to get to Zion or America.

Another scripture implying complete isolation of the western hemisphere is the Lord’s statement we have already quoted which says:

“And there shall be gathered unto it out of every nation under heaven; and it shall be the only people that shall not be at war one with another.” (D&C 45:69)

What that tells us, is that after the cleansing of America, America will become sealed off from the rest of the world. This will happen before Armageddon, that is why it is very probable that we will not be aware of the invasion of Israel and other events on that side of the world at that time.

id like to know the reasons behind why people are pushing the timeline for this sort of thing out another 20+ years. I havent really sat down and calculated it all. perhaps i'm wasting people's time with my ignorance

I would highly, very highly suggest anyone who wants to know more about what needs to happen before Armaggedon to read a book by Gerald R. Lund call The Coming of the Lord. It is very well written and relies upon quotes from the scriptures and leadership of the church to lay out a probable timeline.

As far as answering your question. The cleansing of America has to happen first. The New Jerusalem built, the ten tribes gathered and many more things before Christ comes to Old Jerusalem. Twenty years is a short estimate. Probably more like 25-30.

But that is not the coming I am looking for. I am looking for his coming to NJ for the first shall be last and the last shall be first.

There are now missionaries who were called to Mexico that are now serving in SLC.