"Brethrenite"LOL I have found a kindred Spirit

[Wiikwajio]

My journey back to Church is being paved with gold and this article is PURE gold for me since it was written by a fellow traveler.

http://denversnuffer.blogspot.com/searc ... ersonality

Thank you resse and Professor Jones for leading me to this article. When I read it to my wife she felt like a 1000 lb weight had been lifted from her chest.

I will be laughing for a week.

I think the paint in the Chapel is horrible. I must be on the road to apostasy!

PERFECT! Absolutely perfect.

Hey Mark... Now I know what you are and what cult you belong to. And I mean that in a good way. Just like the Catholics love Mary. RIght. Now I understand you so much more and I simply could not do so before.

Thanks again resse! Laughter is good for the soul and you have given me a gift I cannot repay!

[larsenb]

My journey back to Church is being paved with gold and this article is PURE gold for me since it was written by a fellow traveler.

http://denversnuffer.blogspot.com/searc ... ersonality

Thank you resse and Professor Jones for leading me to this article. When I read it to my wife she felt like a 1000 lb weight had been lifted from her chest.

I will be laughing for a week.

I think the paint in the Chapel is horrible. I must be on the road to apostasy!

PERFECT! Absolutely perfect.

Hey Mark... Now I know what you are and what cult you belong to. And I mean that in a good way. Just like the Catholics love Mary. RIght. Now I understand you so much more and I simply could not do so before.

Thanks again resse! Laughter is good for the soul and you have given me a gift I cannot repay!

Ouch! But will Mark admit to being a member of that cult? I betcha, no. But on the other hand, maybe he'll probably be proud of it, with an enjoinder that those who don't belong to it are on the road to apostacy.

[Wiikwajio]

Ouch! But will Mark admit to being a member of that cult? I betcha, no. But on the other hand, maybe he'll probably be proud of it, with an enjoinder that those who don't belong to it are on the road to apostacy.

Stop it. I am going to wet myself.

[Like]

I have had similar feelings, this illustrates why having the Spirit with you always is so important. I am distrustful or should I say I have a different comfort levels of any kind of earthly authority no matter it is from the government, church or otherwise. I am someone who thinks some of the talks from the pulpit are the philosophies of men mingle with scripture. I am not saying this is a bad thing but I recognize it for what it is. I am constantly comfirming with the Lord what is opinion and what is doctrine. It is a lot of work. Thank God for personal revelation.This is a very personal matter for me and I feel I ought to leave it at this and not say too much more on the matter. Thanks for sharing.




By the way I ordered all of Denver's books back in Oct. 2009 and I am enjoying them and learning a lot.

[Wiikwajio]

I am someone who thinks some of the talks from the pulpit are the philosophies of men mingle with scripture.

By the way I ordered all of Denver's books back in Oct. 2009 and I am enjoying them and learning a lot.

I have a new outlook on all talks from the pulpits from the Brethren to Sunday school lessons. They are parables. You just have to find the treasures in every one of them.

My life is easier after I reached this conclusion. I now enjoy Church, something I have never enjoyed.

[Like]

I have a new outlook on all talks from the pulpits from the Brethren to Sunday school lessons. They are parables. You just have to find the treasures in every one of them.

My life is easier after I reached this conclusion. I now enjoy Church, something I have never enjoyed.

I take a notepad to church each Sunday and I get into a flow when the talks and lessons are being presented. As I listen I write down what I am being impressed by the Spirit to. Doing this helps me focus on what the Lord wants me to know. I go to church a half hour early and find a place to sit and be quiet and ask the Lord to help me know His will for me. Church is a feast, I enjoy the Spirit I feel there.

[reese]

My journey back to Church is being paved with gold and this article is PURE gold for me since it was written by a fellow traveler.

http://denversnuffer.blogspot.com/searc ... ersonality

Thank you resse and Professor Jones for leading me to this article. When I read it to my wife she felt like a 1000 lb weight had been lifted from her chest.

I will be laughing for a week.

I think the paint in the Chapel is horrible. I must be on the road to apostasy!

PERFECT! Absolutely perfect.

Hey Mark... Now I know what you are and what cult you belong to. And I mean that in a good way. Just like the Catholics love Mary. RIght. Now I understand you so much more and I simply could not do so before.

Thanks again resse! Laughter is good for the soul and you have given me a gift I cannot repay!

Hey I'm glad you liked it. I liked it a lot too. I can see how so many in the church want to worship anything but the Savior, of course they would have a cow if it were pointed out to them. I supose it is just easier to "worship" the prophet because he is here, he is visable and tells us consistantly what we should be doing. The Savior, of course, can be all of those things as well, but it requires work on our part.
Joseph Smith was right when he said if the Savior were to come to us today as he did to the Jews, we would be offended and crucifiy him just like they did.
The more I read things like this article the more I realise that we here on earth just don't have a clue most of the time. We all think we see things how they really are, but we definitely are 'looking through a glass darkly.'

[Mark]

My journey back to Church is being paved with gold and this article is PURE gold for me since it was written by a fellow traveler.

http://denversnuffer.blogspot.com/searc ... ersonality

Thank you resse and Professor Jones for leading me to this article. When I read it to my wife she felt like a 1000 lb weight had been lifted from her chest.

I will be laughing for a week.

I think the paint in the Chapel is horrible. I must be on the road to apostasy!

PERFECT! Absolutely perfect.

Hey Mark... Now I know what you are and what cult you belong to. And I mean that in a good way. Just like the Catholics love Mary. RIght. Now I understand you so much more and I simply could not do so before.

Thanks again resse! Laughter is good for the soul and you have given me a gift I cannot repay!

Hey I'm glad you liked it. I liked it a lot too. I can see how so many in the church want to worship anything but the Savior, of course they would have a cow if it were pointed out to them. I supose it is just easier to "worship" the prophet because he is here, he is visable and tells us consistantly what we should be doing. The Savior, of course, can be all of those things as well, but it requires work on our part.
Joseph Smith was right when he said if the Savior were to come to us today as he did to the Jews, we would be offended and crucifiy him just like they did.
The more I read things like this article the more I realise that we here on earth just don't have a clue most of the time. We all think we see things how they really are, but we definitely are 'looking through a glass darkly.'

Just for the record so there is no misunderstanding I have never "worshipped" the Prophet or any other man. I worship only my Heavenly Father and my Savior. I have NEVER said that the Prophet is infallible. I believe that to be false doctrine reserved for the pope. I do believe that the united voice of our prophets constitute the mind and will of the Lord to his children. I can NEVER in my life remember any time when those prophetic voices led me astray in any way. In fact the Prophets words and directions have ALWAYS brought me closer to the Lord and increased my ability to feel the spirit in my life. I firmly believe the Prophets to be men of God filled with the spirit of the Lord in their lives. If that makes me a "Brethrenite" then I will gladly wear that label.

[NoGreaterLove]

Like I said earlier CNN. At least I know where you stand.

[Wiikwajio]

If that makes me a "Brethrenite" then I will gladly wear that label.

Glad to hear it, Brethrenite.

[Wiikwajio]

Like I said earlier CNN. At least I know where you stand.

It is CW or Wiik or Wiikwaji'o. CNN is a TV news station.

[Wiikwajio]

I take a notepad to church each Sunday and I get into a flow when the talks and lessons are being presented. As I listen I write down what I am being impressed by the Spirit to. Doing this helps me focus on what the Lord wants me to know. I go to church a half hour early and find a place to sit and be quiet and ask the Lord to help me know His will for me. Church is a feast, I enjoy the Spirit I feel there.

I started doing this four weeks ago. Very helpful! The going early helps too. It helped me to sort out the oats from the horse droppings like the Crusaders had to do to keep from starving to death.

[Like]

It helped me to sort out the oats from the horse droppings like the Crusaders had to do to keep from starving to death.

Yes that is exactly my experience also. I really did not get much out of church for years. The problem was squarely on me. I was spiritually lazy at church. Church was just a thoughtless excerise. I was going through the motions but I was not really prayerfully pondering and seeking a relationship with the Lord during that time. Now I view Church as a tool to get a closer relationship with God instead of just somewhere to have social connections, renew my covenants and listen to uplifting stories and lessons. I don't know how explain it but it has been different for the last 9 years then it was before that time. I try to make it like when I go to the Temple every week, I really prepare and be open to the Spirit and ask questions of it and seek and ponder actively. I am really trying to be more flexible in my views and accept things outside my comfort level with the Spirit. Before I was so rigid in my views of how things were suppose to be I became deaf when it came to actually listening to the Spirit. I was feeling it but really I did not listen to what it was teaching me. I feel I am more active in the Spirit of the Lord now that I constantly seeking the right mind-set when I worship at church.

[Mark]

If that makes me a "Brethrenite" then I will gladly wear that label.

Glad to hear it, Brethrenite.

Demonize away Bro if it makes you feel better. I have no interest in your "game".

[Wiikwajio]

If that makes me a "Brethrenite" then I will gladly wear that label.

Glad to hear it, Brethrenite.

Demonize away Bro if it makes you feel better. I have no interest in your "game".

I am hurt, Brother Mark. "Demonize"? Why would you say that about me, a struggling weak brother suffering from PTSD and anger issues and trying to go back to church?

I was just quoting you. Am I wrong to call you a "Brethrenite"? Do you not fit the definition given by that other dear beloved brother on his web site? Are you not to be known by your fruit? Your many post criticizing me for not following the conflicting and often opposing views of Apostles while you cherry pick statements not even made in General Conference, are legion. Did you not tell me I always criticize Elder Oak very chance I get when the truth is that I almost always agree with Elder Oaks?

Have I been wrong about you all this time and you are now telling me that I should indeed "prove all things," follow the spirit, do not follow in blind obedience, do research on what Apostles say to confirm their words with the Book of Mormon and the many living prophets we have had over the nearly 200 years since the Gospel was restored, compare the words of the Prophets in fighting unconstitutional laws with what the Church ACTUALLY did in its many battles with the governments of the USA, and actually follow what was said and not just what Mormons THINK was said?

Was I wrong about you? If so I sincerely apologize.

[Wiikwajio]

It helped me to sort out the oats from the horse droppings like the Crusaders had to do to keep from starving to death.

Yes that is exactly my experience also. I really did not get much out of church for years. The problem was squarely on me. I was spiritually lazy at church. Church was just a thoughtless excerise. I was going through the motions but I was not really prayerfully pondering and seeking a relationship with the Lord during that time. Now I view Church as a tool to get a closer relationship with God instead of just somewhere to have social connections, renew my covenants and listen to uplifting stories and lessons. I don't know how explain it but it has been different for the last 9 years then it was before that time. I try to make it like when I go to the Temple every week, I really prepare and be open to the Spirit and ask questions of it and seek and ponder actively. I am really trying to be more flexible in my views and accept things outside my comfort level with the Spirit. Before I was so rigid in my views of how things were suppose to be I became deaf when it came to actually listening to the Spirit. I was feeling it but really I did not listen to what it was teaching me. I feel I am more active in the Spirit of the Lord now that I constantly seeking the right mind-set when I worship at church.

So wonderful to hear this. It was worse than that for me and like you it was my fault and I knew it but not what I should do about it. I also prepare now.

Wonderful to hear about your experiences on this. It is helpful in my recovery.

[NoGreaterLove]

Wiikwajio
Totally off subject here, but I looked up Wiikwajio in its different forms to try to understand more about your philosophies. If you do not mind, why the name?
Now about those Bears.

[Wiikwajio]

Wiikwajio
Totally off subject here, but I looked up Wiikwajio in its different forms to try to understand more about your philosophies. If you do not mind, why the name?
Now about those Bears.

wiikwaji'o means: he tries to get free (vai) (CH)
http://jamesastarkeyjr.com/PDF/Ojibwe4%202nd%20too.pdf

If you want to know what my philosophies are go to:
http://www.sovereignfellowship.com/
http://www.independentamerican.org/

And here is a little thing I wrote:

Chains we put on ourselves

In U.S. v. Lee the government argued that the Amish had to pay Social Security taxes because although it was a religious belief to care for the poor it was not a religious belief not to ALSO pay taxes for the support of the poor. The Court ruled it could not decide what the Religious beliefs of the Amish were but...

The preliminary inquiry in determining the existence of a constitutionally required exemption is whether the payment of social security taxes and the receipt of benefits interferes with the free exercise rights of the Amish. The Amish believe that there is a religiously based obligation to provide for their fellow members the kind of assistance contemplated by the social security system. Although the Government does not challenge the sincerity of this belief, the Government does contend that payment of social security taxes will not threaten the integrity of the Amish religious belief or observance. U.S. v. Lee 455 U.S. 252, 256, 257, 102 S.Ct. 1051, 1055 (U.S.Pa.,1982)

But that is exactly what we LDS Christians believe. That Socialism does threaten the integrity of LDS religious belief and observance.

Quote:
Personal unrighteousness can lead toward a welfare state. What is the real cause of this trend toward the welfare state, toward more socialism? In the last analysis, in my judgment, it is personal unrighteousness. When people do not use their freedoms responsibly and righteously, they will gradually lose these freedoms.

A man will not recognize the inequalities around him and voluntarily, through the gospel plan, come to the aid of his brother, he will find that through "a democratic process" he will be forced to come to the aid of his brother. The government will take from the "haves" and give to the "have nots." Both have lost their freedom. Those who "have," lost their freedom to give voluntarily of their own free will and in the way they desire. Those who "have not," lost their freedom because they did not earn what they received. They got "something for nothing," and they will neither appreciate the gift nor the giver of the gift. Teachings of Howard W Hunter pg 169 Publisher: Bookcraft (1997)

GOT THAT! You lost your freedom by paying the tax and/or receiving the alleged benefit. Grant, Taylor, McKay, Benson, Faust, Romney, Clark, Hinckley, and Monson have all said the SAME THING!

Look what happens to a 1992 ruling with just slight changes so it includes LDS beliefs: "It also gives insufficient recognition to the real conflict of conscience faced by a [Latter-day Saint] who would have to choose whether to miss [heaven] or conform to the state-sponsored practice in an environment where the risk of compulsion is especially high. (see Lee v. Weisman, 505 U.S. 577, 595 (1992))

MISS HEAVEN? That's right!

“Let us work for what we need. Let us be self-reliant and independent. Salvation can be obtained on no other principle. Salvation is an individual matter, and we must work out our own salvation in temporal as well as in spiritual things.”

The voices I hear are persuasive, seductive, fascinating, and confusing. Speaking across the earth, they are part of a mighty battle that is being waged for the minds of men. They are aimed at persuasion in political philosophy. There are voices of democracy competing with voices of communism, and each is winning converts according to the discernment and the judgment of listeners. The stakes are high, the weapons are sophisticated, the methods are clever. (Teachings of Gordon B. Hinckley, p. 407)

And what are the weapons? Well the prophets answered that one too:

Quote:
The chief weapon used by the federal government to achieve this equality is through so-called transfer payments. This is a term that simply means that the federal government collects from one income group and transfers payments to another by the tax system. These payments are made in the form of Social Security benefits, housing subsidies, Medicaid, food stamps, to name a few. President Ezra Taft Benson, 1987 AD

The Prophet said that Communism is not merely and economic program but a total philosophy of life. A totally philosophy of life is a religion.

Quote:
Can communism, socialism, fascism, the so-called welfare state, or any other coercive system provide these priceless blessings which flow to us as a part of our American way of life? The common denominator of all these systems is the curtailment of individual liberty.

May I assure you that communism is not merely an economic program. It is a total philosophy of life, atheistic and utterly opposed to all we hold dear as a great Christian nation. While we might effectively bridle or destroy every so-called communist within our own borders, we shall not vanquish this political virus, and its common forerunner, state socialism, so long as people are determined to achieve security through state-imposed materialistic schemes rather than through righteous living and wholesome activity as free men. So Shall Ye Reap, Ezra Taft Benson 1960

Elder Ezra Taft Benson stated: We must keep the people informed that collectivism, another word for socialism, is a part of the communist strategy. Communism is essentially socialism.

In General Conference, October 1951, President David O. McKay stated: At heart communism is atheistic, and fascism is equally antagonistic to freedom and to other Christian principles—even denying the divinity of Jesus Christ and the existence of God.

As God’s children all, and as brothers and sisters in Christ, we must as a matter of spiritual responsibility and pursuant to positive divine command care for the helpless, the unfortunate, and the needy. Furthermore, it is essentially a neighbor to neighbor obligation. It is not a function of civil government. This is fundamental.... Viewing all of these things it will be easy for you to understand that the Church has not found it possible to follow along the lines of the present general tendency in the matter of property rights, taxes, the curtailment of rights and liberties of the people, nor in general the economic policies of what is termed the “New Deal”. ... This we feel we can definitely say, that unless the people of America forsake the sins and the errors, political and otherwise, of which they are now guilty and return to the practice of the great fundamental principles of Christianity, and of Constitutional government, there will be no exaltation for them spiritually, and politically we shall lose our liberty and free institutions.... The Church as a Church does not believe in war and yet since its organization whenever war has come we have done our part…. we do thoroughly believe in building up our home defenses to the maximum extent necessary, but we do not believe that aggression should be carried on in the name and under the false cloak of defense. We therefore look with sorrowing eyes at the present use to which a great part of the funds being raised by taxes and by borrowing is being put.…We believe that our real threat comes from within and not from without, and it comes from the underlying spirit common to Naziism, Fascism, and Communism, namely, the spirit which would array class against class, which would set up a socialistic state of some sort, which would rob the people of the liberties which we possess under the Constitution, and would set up such a reign of terror as exists now in many parts of Europe. We confess to you that it has not been possible for us to unify our own people even upon the necessity of such a turning about, and therefore we cannot unfortunately, and we say it regretfully, make any practical suggestion to you as to how the nation can be turned about. Faithfully yours, /s/ Heber J. Grant, J. Reuben Clark, Jr., David O. McKay. (First Presidency letter to U.S. Treasury, September 30, 1941 AD)

This warning has not changed.

"How can sons and daughters... agree to a scheme [Social Security?] which would make their fathers and mothers the objects of public organizations that help the poor and cast the burden of their support on the community and stigmatize them with the loss of independence and self-respect." President Monson, First Presidency Message, Guiding Principles of Personal and Family Welfare 1986 AD

Why are members not applying for exemptions from Social Security taxation using as OUR weapon against THEIR weapon the Religious Freedom Restoration Act that had the 100% OFFICIAL support by the Church leadership?

Quote:
Here the Government's argument for uniformity is different; it rests not so much on the particular statutory program at issue as on slippery-slope concerns that could be invoked in response to any RFRA claim for an exception to a generally applicable law. The Government's argument echoes the classic rejoinder of bureaucrats throughout history: If I make an exception for you, I'll have to make one for everybody, so no exceptions. But RFRA operates by mandating consideration, under the compelling interest test, of exceptions to “rule of general applicability.” 42 U.S.C. § 2000bb-1(a). Congress determined that the legislated test “is a workable test for striking sensible balances between religious liberty and competing prior governmental interests.” § 2000bb(a)(5). This determination finds support in our cases; in Sherbert, for example, we rejected a slippery-slope argument similar to the one offered in this case, dismissing as “no more than a possibility” the State's speculation “that the filing of fraudulent claims by unscrupulous claimants feigning religious objections to Saturday work” would drain the unemployment benefits fund. 374 U.S., at 407, 83 S.Ct. 1790....

We do not doubt that there may be instances in which a need for uniformity precludes the recognition of exceptions to generally applicable laws under RFRA. But it would have been surprising to find that this was such a case, given the longstanding exemption from the Controlled Substances Act for religious use of peyote, and the fact that the very reason Congress enacted RFRA was to respond to a decision denying a claimed right to sacramental use of a controlled substance. See 42 U.S.C. § 2000bb(a)(4). And in fact the Government has not offered evidence demonstrating that granting the UDV an exemption would cause the kind of administrative harm recognized as a compelling interest in Lee, Hernandez, and Braunfeld. The Government failed to convince the District Court at the preliminary injunction hearing that health or diversion concerns provide a compelling interest in banning the UDV's sacramental use of hoasca. It cannot compensate for that failure now with the bold argument that there can be no RFRA exceptions at all to the Controlled Substances Act. See Tr. of Oral Arg. 17 (Deputy Solicitor General statement that exception could not be made even for “rigorously policed” use of “one drop” of substance “once a year”).

Gonzales v. O Centro Espirita Beneficente Uniao do Vegetal 546 U.S. 418, 435-437, 126 S.Ct. 1211, 1223 - 1224 (U.S.,2006)


And if you use the RFRA you are expected to prevail!

Quote:
We reasoned that “[a]s the Government bears the burden of proof on the ultimate question of [the challenged Act's] constitutionality, respondents [the movants] must be deemed likely to prevail unless the Government has shown that respondents' proposed less restrictive alternatives are less effective than [enforcing the Act].”

Gonzales v. O Centro Espirita Beneficente Uniao do Vegetal 546 U.S. 418, 429, 126 S.Ct. 1211, 1219 (U.S.,2006)

Quote:
[T]o demonstrate a compelling interest and show that it has adopted the least restrictive means of achieving that interest is the most demanding test known to constitutional law. If “ ‘compelling interest’ really means what it says ..., many laws will not meet the test.... [The test] would open the prospect of constitutionally required religious exemptions from civic obligations of almost every conceivable kind.”City of Boerne v. Flores 521 U.S. 507, 534, 1997 AD

Now with all this in mind I quote President McKay:

“In conclusion, I repeat that no greater immediate responsibility rests upon members of the Church, upon all citizens of the Republic and of neighboring Republics than to protect the freedom vouchsafed by the Constitution of the United States. ‘Let us, by exercising our privileges under the Constitution:
(1) Preserve our right to worship God according to the dictates of our conscience,
(2) Preserve the right to work when and where we choose....
(3) Feel free to plan and to reap without the handicap of bureaucratic interference.
(4) Devote our time, means, and life if necessary, to hold inviolate those laws which will secure to each individual the free exercise of conscience, the right and control of property, and the protection of life.” (“Free Agency.. .A Divine Gift” 367, 378)

Are you REALLY practicing your religion or have you placed chains on yourself and voluntarily become a slave?

[A]s a nation we ignored the warning signals which preceded the great depression; we were also unready to face the onrushing realities of Fascism and Communism—whereas today many are blind to the dangers of self-oppression, the chains we put on ourselves, which is the real tyranny of our time. Neal A. Maxwell, 1972

Because if you have “there will be no exaltation for them spiritually…”

Let me point this out now. Your income tax is 100 percent voluntary and your liquor tax is 100 percent enforced tax. Now the situation is as different as day and night. Consequently, your same rules just will not apply... –Dwight E. Avis, Head of ATF, IRS –House Ways and Means Subcommittee Hearings –1953

Our system of taxation is based on voluntary assessment and payment, not upon distraint. –United States v. Flora, 362 US 145 (1958)

Where the law is uncertain, there is no law. Ubi jus incertum, ibi jus nullum. –Maxim of law

Keeping in mind the well-settled rule that the citizen is exempt from taxation unless the same is imposed by clear and unequivocal language, and that where the construction of a tax law is doubtful, the doubt is to be resolved in favor of those upon whom the tax is sought to be laid… Spreckels Sugar Refining Co. v. McClain,192 U.S. 397 (1904)

Sleep well ye seduced for the more part of the righteous that have been seduced.

Hel. 6: 38 And it came to pass on the other hand, that the Nephites did build them up and support them, beginning at the more wicked part of them, until they had overspread all the land of the Nephites, and had seduced the more part of the righteous until they had come down to believe in their works and partake of their spoils, and to join with them in their secret murders and combinations.

If you love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your [voluntary?] chains set lightly upon you and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. – Samuel Adams, 1776

Sam Adams had his temple work done and made it to heaven and he was a traitor to his king and country and violated what would be the 12th Article of Faith. So did Franklin and Washington and Jefferson. Ben Franklin was made a High Priest after he had been a serial adulterer and attended underground French Sex clubs.

“Church members in any nation are obligated by the twelfth article of faith to obey the tax laws of that nation. If a member disapproves of tax laws, he may attempt to have them changed by legislation or constitutional amendment, or if he has a well founded legal objection, he may challenge them in the courts.”

Why are you not challenging them! Why are you not devoting your time, means, and life if necessary, to hold inviolate those laws which will secure to each individual the free exercise of conscience, the right and control of property.

You CANNOT be a faithful member of the church and place the chains of Socialism on yourself.

You CANNOT be a faithful member of the church and place the chains of Socialism on yourself. At least that is what the prophets said time and again. But then they are the dead prophets EXCEPT FOR:

"How can sons and daughters... agree to a scheme [Social Security?] which would make their fathers and mothers the objects of public organizations that help the poor and cast the burden of their support on the community and stigmatize them with the loss of independence and self-respect." President Monson, First Presidency Message, Guiding Principles of Personal and Family Welfare 1986 AD

When you get a Social Security Number and you use it you agree to that scheme and put chains on yourself.

How it will affect your eternal salvation? Elder Benson gave us the answer:

As important as are all other principles of the gospel, it was the freedom issue which determined whether you received a body. To have been on the wrong side of the freedom issue during the war in heaven meant eternal damnation. How then can Latter-day Saints expect to be on the wrong side in this life and escape the eternal consequences? The war in heaven is raging on earth today. The issues are the same: Shall men be compelled to do what others claim is for their best welfare or will they heed the counsel of the prophet and preserve their freedom?...

Of course the government has penetrated so much of our lives that one can hardly speak for freedom without being accused of being political. Some might even call the war in heaven a political struggle -certainly it was controversial. Yet the valiant entered it wit Michael. Those who support only the popular principles of the gospel have their reward. And those who want to lead the quiet, retiring life but still expect to do their full duty can't have it both ways.
Said Elder John A. Widtsoe:
The troubles of the world may largely be laid at the door of those who are neither hot nor cold; who always follow the line of least resistance; whose timid hearts flutter at taking sides for truth. As in the great Council in the heaven, so in the Church of Christ on earth, there can be no neutrality. (P.P.N.S., p. 440)...

The war in heaven is raging on earth today. Are you being neutralized in the battle?
Not Commanded in All Things, Ezra Taft Benson, Address delivered on April 5, 1965, at the general conference of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in the Tabernacle, Salt Lake City, Utah.

Elder Benson asked the question that only you can answer. "Are you being neutralized in the battle?"

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing” Edmund Burke

Rev. 3: 16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

So the only really question left for you to answer is are you doing nothing and are lukewarm or are you devoting your time, means, and life if necessary, to hold inviolate those laws which will secure to each individual the free exercise of conscience, the right and control of property, and the protection of life?

[Mark]

I am hurt, Brother Mark. "Demonize"? Why would you say that about me, a struggling weak brother suffering from PTSD and anger issues and trying to go back to church?

I was just quoting you. Am I wrong to call you a "Brethrenite"? Do you not fit the definition given by that other dear beloved brother on his web site? Are you not to be known by your fruit? Your many post criticizing me for not following the conflicting and often opposing views of Apostles while you cherry pick statements not even made in General Conference, are legion. Did you not tell me I always criticize Elder Oak very chance I get when the truth is that I almost always agree with Elder Oaks?

Have I been wrong about you all this time and you are now telling me that I should indeed "prove all things," follow the spirit, do not follow in blind obedience, do research on what Apostles say to confirm their words with the Book of Mormon and the many living prophets we have had over the nearly 200 years since the Gospel was restored, compare the words of the Prophets in fighting unconstitutional laws with what the Church ACTUALLY did in its many battles with the governments of the USA, and actually follow what was said and not just what Mormons THINK was said?

Was I wrong about you? If so I sincerely apologize.

Stop it my blood brother you are killing me here!!


If your enemy is secure at all points, be prepared for him. If he is in superior strength, evade him. If your opponent is temperamental, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant. If he is taking his ease, give him no rest. If his forces are united, separate them. If sovereign and subject are in accord, put division between them. Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected.
- Sun Tzu, the Art of War


All warfare is based on deception. Hence, when able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near. Hold out baits to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and crush him.
- Sun Tzu, the Art of War

I love you Tonto.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe5mD7BEBIY

[Wiikwajio]

I love you Tonto.

Thank you SOOO much. That just gives me tingles. And for some reason it always makes me think of William Tell.

He was another what is now the 12th Article of Faith violator, as I recall.

I do so adore most of the men that were traitors. Jefferson, Tell, Nephi, Brigham Young.

[Mark]

I love you Tonto.

Thank you SOOO much. That just gives me tingles. And for some reason it always makes me think of William Tell.

He was another what is now the 12th Article of Faith violator, as I recall.

I do so adore most of the men that were traitors. Jefferson, Tell, Nephi, Brigham Young.

I really do love you Bro. Wiik. You are my brother from another mother. Why would you doubt me? It makes me sad that you doubt my sincerity here.

[Wiikwajio]

I love you Tonto.

Thank you SOOO much. That just gives me tingles. And for some reason it always makes me think of William Tell.

He was another what is now the 12th Article of Faith violator, as I recall.

I do so adore most of the men that were traitors. Jefferson, Tell, Nephi, Brigham Young.

I really do love you Bro. Wiik. You are my brother from another mother. Why would you doubt me? It makes me sad that you doubt my sincerity here.

I see no doubt noted by words. I believe you care for me as much as you care for the Constitution and liberty. You know... You are willing to talk and talk and do nothing.

[Like]

The more I read things like this article the more I realise that we here on earth just don't have a clue most of the time. We all think we see things how they really are, but we definitely are 'looking through a glass darkly.'

:ymapplause: Hopefully we are smart enough to "ask" to have the Spirit to help us see things as they really are... I think a lot of people just wait and never really seek.

[iamse7en]

Who is this guy Wiikwajio? I can't even click on his name.

[7cylon7]

I disagree with the whole assumption that the article puts forth. The prophet does not approve Bishop callings. Many things stop at the Stake level. Even in a ward the bishop has final say on many callings. Never ever have I heard that my primary calling came from the Prophet via the bishop. This article is wildly making links and connections where there are non at all. Most believe that a Bishop is inspired or gets revelation from the Lord directly for a calling in the primary. and as the article suggest that if a primary teacher were to abuse a child sexually then the bishop must be a fallen bishop or the prophet is a fallen prophet. This is the exact same argument the early church struggled with. It is an argument whose source is that of Lucifer. It was quite effective. Two of the three witnesses were Xed because of it. This is no simple matter and is really quite serious. A couple of General Conferences ago this topic was covered quite well in a talk called something like personal and church revelation. The author also lack any ward council practical or actual experiences. just a quick note that believe me if the women of a ward want more lights in the parking lot believe me they can make it happen even if the Priesthood does not think additional lighting is needed. The women in the council and wives of the priesthood can make it happen too. So since the priesthood men follow the women's strong arm tactic is the priesthood fallen? So back to the fallen bishop. The calling could never come from Heaven if heaven new this person would do such a thing. .... WRONG we are here to be tested and we will be tested in everything possible. Only those who pass all the test will be then qualified to enter the highest degree of Heaven. All callings are types of tests. One GA was X ed because he took advantage of his authority and told a young women that to repent she had to have sex with him. A GA mind you. So there you go. The prophet is fallen cause they called a GA who was then finally X ed out. Excommunicated is what I mean. No one in their right mind thinks this way. It sound fun and cool to say. One guy left the church because in a revelation Joseph spelled they guy's name wrong. He is a fallen prophet because he spelled it wrong. Please. that is why there is a RLDS church but they aren't called RLDS any more they have finally changed their name. (They are the true church for sure now.)

Well, I think the saints a little more intelligent than what this article tries to imply. I have never heard this argument used at all. I find it humorous.