The Blessing Of Supporting the Troops

[Original_Intent]

In the premortal world we each took on assignments, missions if you will. They are unique and different, individualized to help each son or daughter progress. These would include trials. We are not all meant to be exactly the same. Snow flakes each fit a certain design perameter, but are at the same time unique and contain infinate differences. As spirit children we are the same. We each have our own measure of creation to fufill.

We are not IGNORANT because our measure of creation leads us to study and be interested in different areas. I can't stand legal stuff, it holds no interest for me, nor does hunting or money arguments over inflation or deflation. Just give me the dummies guide version of enlightenment please. I don't expect anyone else to look at a placenta and think it is one of God's most beautiful and amazing creations. We are each different and have a different role to play in helping Heavenly Father bring His prurposes to pass.

Some men and women feel truly led to be soldiers. Why can't that role be the measure of their creation? Are you possitive that the Lord can't use their offering and sacrifice to build His kingdom? I know many soldiers, some have served with a gun in these current conflicts, others have served in supportive roles. None of them relish even the idea of being required to kill another human being. But most of them feel the need to serve their country in this way at this time. Personal revelation leads them into these trials. They need our prayers so stay on His unique path for them.

Very nicely stated.

[Dr. Mindbender]

I enter this discussion with not a little trepidation. It is clearly obvious to me that I have not read or studied enough to say much on topics such as these.

However, with that said, I seem to recall reading in President Benson's book "An Enemy Hath Done This" where he mentioned his view on the Vietnam War, which was going on at the time. If I recall correctly, it was something to the effect that (1) he was not necessarily in favor of the war, but (2) while the government has placed 'our boys' over there, why not give them the tools they need so they can win? Then they can be brought home earlier. Something to that effect.

Bah!! Now I'm doubting my memory and I just read that book last year. I'll have to pull it off the shelf and see if I can find the direct quote. I'm sure somebody will find it before I can post it, but I'll try anyway.

[NoGreaterLove]

The question arises, “Where does the Church stand in all of this?”

First, let it be understood that we have no quarrel with the Muslim people or with those of any other faith. We recognize and teach that all the people of the earth are of the family of God. And as He is our Father, so are we brothers and sisters with family obligations one to another.

But as citizens we are all under the direction of our respective national leaders. They have access to greater political and military intelligence than do the people generally. Those in the armed services are under obligation to their respective governments to execute the will of the sovereign. When they joined the military service, they entered into a contract by which they are presently bound and to which they have dutifully responded.

One of our Articles of Faith, which represent an expression of our doctrine, states, “We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law” (A of F 1:12).

Gordon B. Hinckley, “War and Peace,” Ensign, May 2003, 78

http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?h ... 82620aRCRD

But modern revelation states that we are to “renounce war and proclaim peace” (D&C 98:16).

In a democracy we can renounce war and proclaim peace. There is opportunity for dissent. Many have been speaking out and doing so emphatically. That is their privilege. That is their right, so long as they do so legally. However, we all must also be mindful of another overriding responsibility, which I may add, governs my personal feelings and dictates my personal loyalties in the present situation.

[NoGreaterLove]

However, we all must also be mindful of another overriding responsibility, which I may add, governs my personal feelings and dictates my personal loyalties in the present situation.
When war raged between the Nephites and the Lamanites, the record states that “the Nephites were inspired by a better cause, for they were not fighting for … power but they were fighting for their homes and their liberties, their wives and their children, and their all, yea, for their rites of worship and their church.
“And they were doing that which they felt was the duty which they owed to their God” (Alma 43:45–46).
The Lord counseled them, “Defend your families even unto bloodshed” (Alma 43:47).
And Moroni “rent his coat; and he took a piece thereof, and wrote upon it—In memory of our God, our religion, and freedom, and our peace, our wives, and our children—and he fastened it upon the end of a pole.
“And he fastened on his headplate, and his breastplate, and his shields, and girded on his armor about his loins; and he took the pole, which had on the end thereof his rent coat, (and he called it the title of liberty) and he bowed himself to the earth, and he prayed mightily unto his God for the blessings of liberty to rest upon his brethren” (Alma 46:12–13).
It is clear from these and other writings that there are times and circumstances when nations are justified, in fact have an obligation, to fight for family, for liberty, and against tyranny, threat, and oppression.
When all is said and done, we of this Church are people of peace. We are followers of our Redeemer, the Lord Jesus Christ, who was the Prince of Peace. But even He said, “Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword” (Matt. 10:34).
This places us in the position of those who long for peace, who teach peace, who work for peace, but who also are citizens of nations and are subject to the laws of our governments. Furthermore, we are a freedom-loving people, committed to the defense of liberty wherever it is in jeopardy. I believe that God will not hold men and women in uniform responsible as agents of their government in carrying forward that which they are legally obligated to do. It may even be that He will hold us responsible if we try to impede or hedge up the way of those who are involved in a contest with forces of evil and repression.
Now, there is much that we can and must do in these perilous times. We can give our opinions on the merits of the situation as we see it, but never let us become a party to words or works of evil concerning our brothers and sisters in various nations on one side or the other. Political differences never justify hatred or ill will. I hope that the Lord’s people may be at peace one with another during times of trouble, regardless of what loyalties they may have to different governments or parties.
Gordon B. Hinckley, “War and Peace,” Ensign, May 2003, 78

[Dr. Mindbender]

Follow up to my earlier post regarding President Benson's quote on Vietnam. I found an online source that looks fairly accurate and refreshed my memory, so I believe this is the direct quote:

From An Enemy Hath Done This, p. 185:

The key to a solution of the problems in Vietnam is an understanding that we have no business being there in the first place — at least not under the present conditions or authority. Nevertheless, we are there and we are involved, so what do we do now? Since we shouldn’t be there in the first place, we should now concentrate on doing whatever is necessary to bring our boys home.

[Henmasher]

Follow up to my earlier post regarding President Benson's quote on Vietnam. I found an online source that looks fairly accurate and refreshed my memory, so I believe this is the direct quote:

From An Enemy Hath Done This, p. 185:

The key to a solution of the problems in Vietnam is an understanding that we have no business being there in the first place — at least not under the present conditions or authority. Nevertheless, we are there and we are involved, so what do we do now? Since we shouldn’t be there in the first place, we should now concentrate on doing whatever is necessary to bring our boys home.

That sounds like he was advocating to support the troops

[Cowell]

I do support our troops. Just not blindly.

I think people who support our troops are no different than people who supported the Nazis.

I support our troops, just the same way German citizens who loved their country would have supported their men in uniform, but if you don't see the evil behind what our country is doing, you have been deceived.

Carlos, your emotional response caused you to miss the fact that I spelled this out above.

[Toto]

From An Enemy Hath Done This, p. 185:

The key to a solution of the problems in Vietnam is an understanding that we have no business being there in the first place — at least not under the present conditions or authority. Nevertheless, we are there and we are involved, so what do we do now? Since we shouldn’t be there in the first place, we should now concentrate on doing whatever is necessary to bring our boys home.

That’s exactly what Ron Paul said in the debates. And then, 80 percent of the LDS in Utah who voted, voted for Mitt Romney based on his religious affiliation over and above an honest and wise individual we are to seek out and support.

That was a large majority piling into the hand basket!

Ron Paul said bring them home. I concur. Nice to get this affirmation.

Thank you for your thoughts Dr. Mindbender.

[Wiikwajio]

Nice justifications. Your excuses are pathetic.....because someone has labeled you you have a right to do the same?

Ignorant of the truth? Thankfully many are aware of the fact that you are not the fountain of all truth you pretend to be. Someone doesn't have to hang on your every word and agree with your every position to eschew socialism. And don't give me your "I follow the prophets line". Everyone that disagrees with you has quoted the prophets as well. Such as the case of Elder Oaks instructing us to file a tax return.

Do I mind the label of Latter Day Saint? No....but it's a label I have chosen to take upon myself. Perhaps you should learn the difference.

Your reasons are pathetic. Your understanding of law is essentially non-existant. Your understanding of tax law shows that you are a voluntary slave. Remain so. No skin off my nose. Your voluntary slavery is your problem. I am free.

Elder Oaks never instructed anyone to file a return that the individual was not required by law to file. If so no 8 year old could get baptized since none of them file a return. The fact that you cannot understand that only those required to file by law that people can read and understand are required by law to file a return, demonstrates that Jefferson was right that people that are ignorant cannot be free. You are a fulfillment of Jefferson prophesy.

[Quiet Cricket]

It has been 7 years since President Hinckley gave the "War and Peace" talk in which he said, "The present war is really an outgrowth and continuation of that conflict. Hopefully it is now drawing to a conclusion."

Most of the talk was about principles that both argue against and for the war. He gave his personal opinion about the situation in that talk; it seems to me that he presented it as a side note. I can't speak for him, but I would guess his current opinion would be similar to President Benson's on the Vietnam war that was posted here. At some point we might have to say about the war on terror what Pres. Benson said about vietnam, "the vietnam war... which we apparently have no intention of winning..." And if we have no intention of actually winning the war on terror, (I think we don't) then why continue the war? It's one thing to support a swift defensive action, but it's another to continue to accept addition after addition to the conflict, including the overthrow of a country. "As long as we're out here fighting terrorists we might as well overthrow every country that is a threat one by one." I don't think Pres. Hinckley would support that and I don't think we can keep using his "war and peace" talk to support something that continues to evolve as government becomes more corrupt at an accelerated pace.

Also from "War and Peace" "We sometimes are prone to glorify the great empires of the past, such as the Ottoman Empire, the Roman and Byzantine Empires, and in more recent times, the vast British Empire. But there is a darker side to every one of them. There is a grim and tragic overlay of brutal conquest, of subjugation, of repression, and an astronomical cost in life and treasure." Sadly we could probably add the United States to the list.

[Rensai]

I tend to agree with Cowell, in that I think the troops are serving evil masters and their causes overall. I know that for myself, I would not feel good about being a soldier right now. However, there are plenty of stories of good men who temper the more rash/immoral members of their squads and prevent atrocities. I know there are many good, decent people in the military who may wrongly believe in the war on terrorism, etc, but still stand for good in every way they know. I admire these people. With all the lies and propaganda, I've no doubt we're all deceived about something; probably a lot of somethings. They are doing what they believe is right and that's something.

I like to think that at the least, these good men and women serving are doing things to make things a little better in the war. Imagine if every decent person had refused to deploy? I don't know what all the effects of that would have been, but I'm willing to bet there would be a lot more stories about innocent people being gunned down by our troops. All I know is, the troops I do know all say they are where they feel they need to be and they are making the best of it. That's good enough for me. They aren't perfect people, but they are good people even if they don't see how they are being used. I wish the military en masse would have refused to deploy and stood up for their constitutional oaths, but that's not the world we live in. Maybe the lord does want some good men mixed into this war for the reasons I've stated or others unknown to me. All I can say for sure is, I don't support the mission, I don't support the troops who torture or rape; But I do support the troops who are doing their best to be upstanding human beings and believe in the cause whether they are deceived or not.

[Mosby]

I tend to agree with Cowell, in that I think the troops are serving evil masters and their causes overall. I know that for myself, I would not feel good about being a soldier right now. However, there are plenty of stories of good men who temper the more rash/immoral members of their squads and prevent atrocities. I know there are many good, decent people in the military who may wrongly believe in the war on terrorism, etc, but still stand for good in every way they know. I admire these people. With all the lies and propaganda, I've no doubt we're all deceived about something; probably a lot of somethings. They are doing what they believe is right and that's something.

I like to think that at the least, these good men and women serving are doing things to make things a little better in the war. Imagine if every decent person had refused to deploy? I don't know what all the effects of that would have been, but I'm willing to bet there would be a lot more stories about innocent people being gunned down by our troops. All I know is, the troops I do know all say they are where they feel they need to be and they are making the best of it. That's good enough for me. They aren't perfect people, but they are good people even if they don't see how they are being used. I wish the military en masse would have refused to deploy and stood up for their constitutional oaths, but that's not the world we live in. Maybe the lord does want some good men mixed into this war for the reasons I've stated or others unknown to me. All I can say for sure is, I don't support the mission, I don't support the troops who torture or rape; But I do support the troops who are doing their best to be upstanding human beings and believe in the cause whether they are deceived or not.

Great post Rensai.

[Henmasher]

I tend to agree with Cowell, in that I think the troops are serving evil masters and their causes overall. I know that for myself, I would not feel good about being a soldier right now. However, there are plenty of stories of good men who temper the more rash/immoral members of their squads and prevent atrocities. I know there are many good, decent people in the military who may wrongly believe in the war on terrorism, etc, but still stand for good in every way they know. I admire these people. With all the lies and propaganda, I've no doubt we're all deceived about something; probably a lot of somethings. They are doing what they believe is right and that's something.

I like to think that at the least, these good men and women serving are doing things to make things a little better in the war. Imagine if every decent person had refused to deploy? I don't know what all the effects of that would have been, but I'm willing to bet there would be a lot more stories about innocent people being gunned down by our troops. All I know is, the troops I do know all say they are where they feel they need to be and they are making the best of it. That's good enough for me. They aren't perfect people, but they are good people even if they don't see how they are being used. I wish the military en masse would have refused to deploy and stood up for their constitutional oaths, but that's not the world we live in. Maybe the lord does want some good men mixed into this war for the reasons I've stated or others unknown to me. All I can say for sure is, I don't support the mission, I don't support the troops who torture or rape; But I do support the troops who are doing their best to be upstanding human beings and believe in the cause whether they are deceived or not.

Great post Rensai.

I would most here 100% agree. Great post

[Like]

12Apr10
Upcoming WikiLeaks Video: Obama’s Warplanes Massacre Up to 147 Afghan Civilians

http://littlealexinwonderland.wordpress ... civilians/

Video report provided by RAWA the day of the Granai Massacre, of which WikiLeaks reportedly will release classified footage. The U.S government has always reported 26 civilians were killed though, investigations by rights groups have said more than 90 children alone were killed in the airstrike. The government has also claimed that the Taliban was responsible for a bulk of the casualties, though civilians claim the Taliban had left well before the U.S. warplanes rained bombs on their village through the middle of the night. (2:08):



Classified video footage of U.S. warplanes “repeatedly” dropping 500- and 2,000-lb. bombs, massacring up to 147 Afghan civilians of the Bala Baluk district of Farah province last May, is expected to be released on the internet by WikiLeaks, Ben Farmer reported at the London Telegraph last night.

Last week, WikiLeaks, a website that posts materials provided by whistleblowers, released a classified U.S. military video depicting the 2007 indiscriminate slaying of over a dozen non-hostile people in the Iraqi suburb of New Baghdad—including two members of Reuters news staff—and wanton destruction of an apartment complex with families inside.

Julian Assange, editor, “says he was followed on a flight from Reykjavik to Copenhagen by two American agents” as he “claims surveillance has intensified as he and his colleagues prepare to put out their Afghan film”, Matthew Campbell reports at the London Times today.

General David Petraeus—combatant commander of U.S. operations in the Middle East and Central Asian theaters—told National Public Radio, weeks after the attack, that he had seen the video and it “very clearly shows bombs hitting individuals who are the Taliban who are reacting to the movements of the Afghan and coalition forces on the ground” and though, “there were civilians killed in this incident along”, the “targets of these different strikes were the Taliban”. He added that he believed the video would be shown “as part of the press briefing” the U.S. probe.

The video was to be released with a Pentagon investigation report, but Pentagon officials were doubtful, “out of fear that its findings would further enrage the Afghan public, Pentagon officials told McClatchy,” Nancy Youssef reported, June 15, adding later [emphasis added]:
Two U.S. military officials told McClatchy that the video shows that no one checked to see whether any women or children were in the building before it was bombed….

The seven-hour incident on May 4 began when Afghan police were ambushed while they were patrolling a road. Some officers were killed, prompting the police to call in the Afghan army. The army then came under attack, too, and the provincial governor called in U.S. forces.

The U.S. forces eventually called in air support, military officials said, and after the airstrike began, the Taliban moved into two remote villages separated by poppy fields that were a source of heavy enemy fire, and the fight continued into the night.…

The May 4, 2009 late-night attack near Granai in the province of Farah was sharply protested with “Death to America!” chants and become known as the “Granai Massacre“, as Reuters reported, “Villagers brought truckloads of bodies to the capital.” Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan called the attack, “one out of many war crime cases” committed by the Obama Administration in Afghanistan and compiled graphic photos, consistent with the initial claims of Afghan civilians and officials (2:42):



A “tribal elder with extensive local knowledge of the surrounding area” said the Taliban were never within a kilometer of the Granai village, Guy Smallman reported at the Financial Times, last June. “The U.S. disputes this account and claims that the Taliban entered the village, turning it into a legitimate target”, adding [emphasis added]:

There is a partially destroyed farmhouse and two large craters. [Taliban] fighters briefly regrouped here in the evening before melting back into the maze of ditches and trees in the surrounding countryside. Yet bombs landed there 90 minutes later, the elder says.

Again, the Americans disagree and say the bombings took place in the heat of battle with the Taliban, with no delay. The elder’s account appears to be corroborated by other residents of Granai who spoke in Farah to the Institute of War and Peace Reporting….

Two parts of the village saw the greatest loss of life. One, the main village mosque, is in ruins. Its dome is still intact, with the speakers used to announce the call to prayer hanging limply from the roof. But the area immediately around it is a mass of rubble and craters. Every building in the vicinity has been demolished.

It was dusk when the attack came. A large crowd of people were in the garden after evening prayers.

On the other side of the village is what looks like a piece of open waste ground. But closer inspection reveals the foundations of a house. Items of clothing and broken crockery are strewn among the debris. This was where people gathered after the attack on the mosque….

“The people were afraid. About 10 to 15 families gathered in the same place to be safe together. This was in the evening and it was dark,” says the elder. He recalls a small “helicopter” with no pilot that made a “zzzz” sound. He appears to be describing one of the pilotless drones used by Nato troops to relay video film of the battlefield.

“My cousins, my sister, my nephews and also my nieces were all killed in this place,” he says.

“About 13 or 14 people related to my sister were killed here. I found my nephew’s body recently over there. A farmer found another body over there.”

On the hill, beyond the village, are traditional Muslim graves ranged as far as the eye can see.

The fresh ones number more than 70. The elder points to those of his sister and her children. Then at the far end of the cemetery he stands before one enormous grave stretching more than 50 metres across.

“This is the grave that almost 55 people are buried in because their bodies are in pieces,” he says….

“These are poor people. They hate the government, they hate the Americans and they hate to live in this place. We think that this country is like a prison for us.”

“The Pentagon initially claimed that the entire incident was made up and that the Taliban had pre-killed all the civilians and stored the bodies in buildings before tricking the U.S. into bombing those buildings,” Jason Ditz at AntiWar News writes. “They later conceded to have killed 26 people, but insisted that ‘no one will ever’ know the exact numbers. They also claimed that the planes had no idea any civilians were in the area” before dropping 500- to 2,000-lb. bombs.

Last June, Philip Alston, U.N. special rapporteur on extrajudicial executions, demanded ‘real accountability’ for the U.S.-led coalition’s mounting death toll of Afghan civilians—notably the May 2009 attack on Farah.

Afghan officials were reporting 147 civlian deaths—including 95 children—as a result of the U.S. airstrikes. Jeremy Scahill reported the U.S. government was doing all it could to shift blame for the massacre of civilians on a Taliban ’staging’, May 7, 2009 [emphasis added]:

By day’s end, the Pentagon was seeking to blame the Taliban for “staging” the massacre to blame it on the U.S. Last night, NBC News’s Pentagon correspondent Jim Miklaszewski said military sources told him Taliban fighters used grenades to kill three families to “stage” a massacre and then blame it on the US. The senior U.S. military and NATO commander in Afghanistan, Gen. David McKiernan, spoke in general terms: “We have some other information that leads us to distinctly different conclusions about the cause of the civilian casualties,” he said. McKiernan left the specific details of the spin to unnamed officials.

According to The Washington Post, “A U.S. defense official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said that ‘the Taliban went to a concerted effort to make it look like the U.S. airstrikes caused this. The official did not offer evidence to support the claim, and could not say what had caused the deaths.” Meanwhile, according to the Associated Press, a senior Defense official who did not want to be identified “said late Wednesday that Marine special operations forces believe the Afghan civilians were killed by grenades hurled by Taliban militants, who then loaded some of the bodies into a vehicle and drove them around the village, claiming the dead were victims of an American airstrike. A second U.S. official said a senior Taliban commander is believed to have ordered the grenade attack.”

As the AP reported, “it would be the first time the Taliban has used grenades in this way.”

While the Pentagon spins its story, the International Committee of the Red Cross has stated bluntly that U.S. airstrikes hit civilian houses and revealed that an ICRC counterpart in the Red Crescent was among the dead.

The New York Times (NYT) reported that “20 to 30 civilians may have been killed”, according to the U.S. military as of May 21.

By June 3, the NYT reported that the U.S. military concedes to making “significant errors” in its airstrikes. The following day, the Los Angeles Times reported that the U.S. military concedes the air strike as “overkill”, but still thinks only “26 civilians were mistakenly killed”

A report released in mid-June by the U.S. government “found 26 confirmed civilian casualties but concedes that it is impossible to determine a final number because some were buried before investigators arrived,” Ms. Youssef reported at McClatchy. “However, it also cites an investigation by the Afghan Human Rights Commission shortly after the May 4 incident, which found 86 casualties.”

The U.S. military said it would not pursue any internal disciplinary actions for the Granai Massacre, so it’s pretty clear that the massacre the Pentagon doesn’t want us to see was ‘mission accomplished’, right?

[patriotsaint]

Nice justifications. Your excuses are pathetic.....because someone has labeled you you have a right to do the same?

Ignorant of the truth? Thankfully many are aware of the fact that you are not the fountain of all truth you pretend to be. Someone doesn't have to hang on your every word and agree with your every position to eschew socialism. And don't give me your "I follow the prophets line". Everyone that disagrees with you has quoted the prophets as well. Such as the case of Elder Oaks instructing us to file a tax return.

Do I mind the label of Latter Day Saint? No....but it's a label I have chosen to take upon myself. Perhaps you should learn the difference.

Your reasons are pathetic. Your understanding of law is essentially non-existant. Your understanding of tax law shows that you are a voluntary slave. Remain so. No skin off my nose. Your voluntary slavery is your problem. I am free.

Elder Oaks never instructed anyone to file a return that the individual was not required by law to file. If so no 8 year old could get baptized since none of them file a return. The fact that you cannot understand that only those required to file by law that people can read and understand are required by law to file a return, demonstrates that Jefferson was right that people that are ignorant cannot be free. You are a fulfillment of Jefferson prophesy.

Justify away. You still are wrong and I will continue to follow the words of the prophets as interpreted by their EXAMPLE. The only freedom on this earth comes from obedience. You are too busy looking for loopholes to simply obey and trust.

When Alma the elder and his people were enslaved by the lamanites/priests of Noah, did the Lord ask them to fight a revolution? No.....he asked them to bear their burdens happily and with patience. He delivered them in His own due time and according to His will. If bearing the burden of taxes is part of our trials, then I can live with that. I will continue to support education of correct principles and fight to see the 16h amendment repealed, but until then I will do as the prophets have counseled.

You look like a bigger fool every time you claim those that pay taxes are socialists or ignorant........the prophets pay taxes. I think I trust their example more than the words of some random guy on a forum.

[Jason]

A little military humor (take that for what its worth...and all relevant precautions)-

The MRE Dinner Date

I had a date the other night at my place. On the phone the day before, the girl asked me to "Cook her something she's never had before" for dinner.

After many minutes of scratching my head over what to make, I finally settled on something she has DEFINITELY, definitely had never eaten before.

I got out my trusty case of MRE's. (Meal, Ready-to-Eat) Field rations that when eaten in their entirety contain 3000+ calories in each meal.

Here's what I made: I took three of the Ham Slices out of their plastic packets, took out three of the Pork Chops, three packets of Chicken-a-la- king and eight packets of dehydrated butter noodles and some dehydrated/re-hydrated rice. I cooked the Ham Slices and Pork Chops in one pan, sauteed in shaved garlic and olive oil. In another pot, I blended the Chicken a-la-king, noodles, and rice together to make a sort of mush that looked suspiciously like succotash. I added some spices, and blended everything together in a glass pan that I then cooked in the oven for about 35 minutes at 450 degrees.

When I took it out, it looked like, well, ham slices, pork chops, and a bed of yellow poop. I covered the tops of the meat in the MRE cheese (kinda like Velveeta) and added some green sprinkly things from one of my spice cans (hey, if it has green sprinkly things on it, it looks fancy right? For dessert, I took four MRE Pound Cakes, mashed 'em up, added five packets of cocoa powder, powdered coffee cream, and some water. I heated it up and stirred it until it looked like a sort of chunky gelatinous #$%#, and I sprinkled powdered sugar on top of it.. Voilaanger Pudding.

For alcoholic drinks, I took the rest of my bottle of Military Special Vodka (yes, they DO make a type of liquor named "Military Special"...it sells for $4.35 per fifth at the Class Six) and mixed in four packets of "Electrolytes - 1 each - Cherry flavored" (I swear, the packet says that). It looked like an eerie Kool-Aid with sparkles in it (that was the electrolytes I guess... Could've been leftover sand from Egypt ). I lit two candles, put a vase of wildflowers in the middle, and set the table with my best set of Ralph Lauren Academy -series China (that stuff is EXPENSIVE... My set of 8 place settings cost me over $600 on sale at the Lejeune PX), and put the alcoholic drink in a crystal wine decanter.

She came over, and I had some appetizers already made, of MRE spaghetti-with-meatballs, set in small cups. She saw the dinner, saw the food, and said "This looks INCREDIBLE!! !" We dug in, and she loved the food. Throughout the meal, she kept asking me how long it took me to make it, and kept remarking that I obviously knew a thing or two about cooking fine meals. She kind of balked at the make-shift "wine" I had set out, but after she tried it I guess she liked it because she drank four glasses during dinner.

At the end of the main course, when I served the dessert, she squealed with delight at the "Chocolate mousse" I had made. Huh? Chocolate what? Okay...Yeah...Its Chocolate Moose. Took me HOURS to make... Yup!

Later on, as we were watching a movie, she excused herself to use my rest room. While she was in there, I heard her say softly to herself "uh oh" and a resounding but petite fart punctuated her utterance of dismay.

Let the games begin. She sprayed about half a can of air freshener (Air Freshener, 1 each, Orange scent. Yup. The military even makes smell-good) and returned to the couch, this time with an obvious pained look.

After 10 more minutes she excused herself again, and retreated to the bathroom for the second time, I could hear her say, "What the hell is WRONG with me???" as she again send flatulent shockwaves into the porcelain bowl. This time, they sounded kinda wet, and I heard the toilet paper roll being employed, and again, LOTS more air freshener.

Back to the couch. She smiles meekly as she decides to sit on the chair instead of next to me. She sits on my chair, knees pulled up to her chest, kind of rocking back and forth slightly. Suddenly, without a word, she ROCKETED up and FLEW to the bathroom, slammed the door, and didn't come out for 30 minutes.

I turned the movie up because I didn't want her to hear me laughing so hard that tears were streaming down my cheeks. She came out with a slightly gray pallor to her face, and said "I am SOOOOOO sorry. I have NO idea what is wrong with me. I am so embarrassed; I can't believe I keep running to your bathroom!!" I gave her an Imodium AD, and she finally settled down and relaxed.

Later on, she asked me again what I had made for dinner, because she had enjoyed it so much. I calmly took her into the kitchen and showed her all the used MRE bags and packets in the trash can. After explaining to her that she had eaten roughly 9,000 calories of "Marine Corps Field Rations" she turned stark white, looked at me incredulously, and said "I ate 9,000 calories of dehydrated food that was made 3 years ago?"

After I admitted it, she grabbed her coat and keys, and took off without a word. She called me yesterday. Seems she couldn't #$%# for 5 days, and when she finally did, the smell was so bad, her roommate could smell it from down the hall. She also told me she had been working out nonstop to combat the high caloric intake, and that she never wanted me to cook dinner for her again, unless she was PERSONALLY present and supervising.

It was a fun date. She laughed about it eventually and said that that was the first time she'd ever crapped in a guy's house on a date. She'd been so upset by it she was in tears in the bathroom while I had been in tears on the couch.

Full Throttle with The Blue Angels -
http://alt.coxnewsweb.com/ajc/swf/bluea ... angels.swf

....lucky he didn't choke on his gum....

[Wiikwajio]

Full Throttle with The Blue Angels -
http://alt.coxnewsweb.com/ajc/swf/bluea ... angels.swf

....lucky he didn't choke on his gum....

Lucky they did not take him off for a little torture like they do to some many other people.

I wonder how much that little fun flight cost the U.S. taxpayer? Sure glad I don't pay.

[Jason]

Full Throttle with The Blue Angels -
http://alt.coxnewsweb.com/ajc/swf/bluea ... angels.swf

....lucky he didn't choke on his gum....

Lucky they did not take him off for a little torture like they do to some many other people.

I wonder how much that little fun flight cost the U.S. taxpayer? Sure glad I don't pay.

Oh you pay all right...one way or another....you pay!

Couple guys had a little foot race across the flight line pulling little steel carts loaded with FLIR pods. One of the carts hit a pad-eye and the FLIR rolled off the cart with a cacophony of shattered glass. $700k up in smoke.

Had a HUD on another cart and due to flippant toss of the cart's handle.....hit the bubble wrapped crystal display. $70k up in smoke. Upon getting a new one another person did it again....another $70k up in smoke.

While sitting in the cockpit on a wet rainy night one guy was grabbing hold of the HUD while guy from below was handing it up....miscommunication in terms of who had control....it fell to the ground. $145k up in smoke.

Miscommunication between Air Force air track control tower in Okinawa and Marine F/A-18 pilot....bomb dropped in bay. $5 million up in smoke.

Pilot trying to take a poop in his briefcase while flying. $27 million up in smoke.

etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc!

Oh you pay all right! No one can completely isolate themselves from the system! Either the system gets fixed....or we are all in a bind!!!

[Wiikwajio]

Elder Oaks never instructed anyone to file a return that the individual was not required by law to file. If so no 8 year old could get baptized since none of them file a return. The fact that you cannot understand that only those required to file by law that people can read and understand are required by law to file a return, demonstrates that Jefferson was right that people that are ignorant cannot be free. You are a fulfillment of Jefferson prophesy.

Justify away. You still are wrong and I will continue to follow the words of the prophets as interpreted by their EXAMPLE. The only freedom on this earth comes from obedience. You are too busy looking for loopholes to simply obey and trust.

When Alma the elder and his people were enslaved by the lamanites/priests of Noah, did the Lord ask them to fight a revolution? No.....he asked them to bear their burdens happily and with patience. He delivered them in His own due time and according to His will. If bearing the burden of taxes is part of our trials, then I can live with that. I will continue to support education of correct principles and fight to see the 16h amendment repealed, but until then I will do as the prophets have counseled.

You look like a bigger fool every time you claim those that pay taxes are socialists or ignorant........the prophets pay taxes. I think I trust their example more than the words of some random guy on a forum.

And when the king-men had taken the government of the Nephites Captain Moroni went in and slaughtered them. You CANNOT show me where LDS have been commanded to be slaves by the Latter-day Prophets as the people of Alma were told. When you can, get back to me. Until then STOP PREACHING FALSE DOCTRINE or you are acting the part of an apostate. Preaching FALSE doctrine is an excommunicatable offense and NO WHERE do the Latter-day Prophets tell Americans to subject themselves to tyranny and Socialism. If they have then SHOW ME!

The Latter-day prophets examples have been to fight unconstitutional acts. Have you read the examples of Brigham Young, John Taylor, Wilford Woodruff? They fought tyranny. They went to Court. They defied evil laws. The Church example TODAY is to support the Religious Freedom Restoration Act. Why would they support it and then not want members to use it in the Courts? Are you claiming the prophets are hypocrites? I certainly do not believe they are hypocrites but you must believe that. Their commands have never changed from: "Devote our time, means, and life if necessary, to hold inviolate those laws which will secure to each individual the free exercise of conscience, the right and control of property, and the protection of life.”

I do that. You do not. Why are you not doing what the prophets have commanded time and again?

I pay all taxes required by law but I am not required to file a 1040 and can find no law that requires me to do so. Can you tell me what law requires me to file? Of course you cannot because there is no law. But if I am in error please tell me the citation like 26 USC Section ??? so that I can challenge it directly in court using the RFRA. You see the burden of proof is on the government to prove it is a compelling government interest AND the least restrictive upon my beliefs. The IRS is currently obeying the RFRA that totally restricts them, because they are acting in a manner that is the least restrictive upon my beliefs. WHY DO YOU WANT THE IRS TO VIOLATE THE RELIGIOUS FREEDOM RESTORATION ACT?

The RFRA has been the law of the land since 1993 AD. Why have you refused to take advantage of it? Why do you remain a slave when you freedom awaits the brave?

BEFORE I can be a person made liable they have to demonstrate TWO things. Do you have ANY evidence that the IRS has made such a demonstration? In fact if this went to court the I would be deemed as likely to prevail because the RFRA sets the highest legal standard that exists.

[T]he Government bears the burden of proof on the ultimate question of [the challenged Act's] constitutionality, respondents [the movants] must be deemed likely to prevail unless the Government has shown that respondents' proposed less restrictive alternatives are less effective than [enforcing the Act].”

Gonzales v. O Centro Espirita Beneficente Uniao do Vegetal 126 S.Ct. 1211, *1219 (U.S.,2006)

Got that. People that use the RFRA are deemed by the United States Supreme Court likely to prevail and yet you will not even try to be free. Why?

[T]he Religious Freedom Restoration Act of 1993,… prohibits the Federal Government from substantially burdening a person's exercise of religion, unless the Government “demonstrates that application of the burden to the person” represents the least restrictive means of advancing a compelling interest. 42 U.S.C. § 2000bb-1(b). …We conclude that the Government has not carried the burden expressly placed on it by Congress in the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, and affirm the grant of the preliminary injunction.

Gonzales v. O Centro Espirita Beneficente Uniao do Vegetal 546 U.S. 418, 423 (2006)

Got that. The burden of proof is on the government. Why have you not used this law to free yourself. Do you LIKE paying Marxists taxes? Do you love your bondage while you defend it?

RFRA …Sweeping coverage ensures its intrusion at every level of government, displacing laws and prohibiting official actions of almost every description and regardless of subject matter. RFRA's restrictions apply to every agency and official of the Federal…Governments. 42 U.S.C. § 2000bb-2(1). RFRA applies to all federal… law, statutory or otherwise, whether adopted before or after its enactment. § 2000bb-3(a). RFRA has no termination date or termination mechanism. Any law is subject to challenge at any time by any individual who alleges a substantial burden on his or her free exercise of religion… If an objector can show a substantial burden on his free exercise, the State [federal government] must demonstrate a compelling governmental interest and show that the law is the least restrictive means of furthering its interest. Claims that a law substantially burdens someone's exercise of religion will often be difficult to contest. See Smith, 494 U.S., at 887, 110 S.Ct., at 1604 (“What principle of law or logic can be brought to bear to contradict a believer's assertion that a particular act is ‘central’ to his personal faith?”); id., at 907, 110 S.Ct., at 1615 (“The distinction between questions of centrality and questions of sincerity and burden is admittedly fine ...”) (O'CONNOR, J., concurring in judgment). Requiring… [the Federal Government] to demonstrate a compelling interest and show that it has adopted the least restrictive means of achieving that interest is the most demanding test known to constitutional law. If “‘compelling interest’ really means what it says..., many laws will not meet the test.... [The test] would open the prospect of constitutionally required religious exemptions from civic obligations of almost every conceivable kind.” Id., at 888, 110 S.Ct., at 1605. Laws valid under Smith would fall under RFRA without regard to whether they had the object of stifling or punishing free exercise. We make these observations not to reargue the position of the majority in Smith but to illustrate the substantive alteration of its holding attempted by RFRA. Even assuming RFRA would be interpreted in effect to mandate some lesser test, say, one equivalent to intermediate scrutiny, the statute nevertheless would require searching judicial scrutiny of [Federal] law with the attendant likelihood of invalidation. (Emphasis added)

City of Boerne v. Flores 521 U.S. 507,532-534 (1997)

GOT THAT? They have to prove it. If the RFRA would have been around in 1880s the Church would have won on polygamy.

The IRS has been unable to show me any law I have to follow that they enforce in 32 years. Even my attorneys have stated that the research I have done along with the letters I have received makes it clear that I am exempt. So why do you believe I should pay a tax the IRS does not enforce and why should they violate the RFRA? If the Prophets don't choose to take advantage of the RFRA to free themselves then THAT IS THEIR PERSONAL CHOICE. I did not marry any of their wives or live in their states or get the same jobs they got either. I have the RIGHT to avail myself of legal remedies and Elder Oaks has CLEARLY stated this. I have done so. You have refused to do so.

Any Latter-day Saint to can do so. It takes a whole lot of time. Maybe the Lord wanted the prophets to spend their time on other issues and leaves the Freedom Fights up to men like me. You know... men that are not ignorant of the laws that can free them and have the guts to use them instead of being voluntary slaves. Men that stayed behind when Alma left that slavery. Would you have stayed behind? Apparently so. Maybe you cannot understand that we are to fight. Not the prophets. The Elders. Obviously you cannot.

Why are you lending aid and sympathy to Marxists? Why are you not a faithful member of the Church because you lend aid and sympathy to false isms? Why are you not taking advantage of the Religious Freedom Restoration Act and instead voluntarily remain a slave? Laban's sword is in your hand and you REFUSE to use it. Why? Why do you refuse to be engaged in the "mighty battle"?

"The voices I hear are persuasive, seductive, fascinating, and confusing. Speaking across the earth, they are part of a mighty battle that is being waged for the minds of men. They are aimed at persuasion in political philosophy. There are voices of democracy competing with voices of communism, and each is winning converts according to the discernment and the judgment of listeners. The stakes are high, the weapons are sophisticated, the methods are clever." President Gordon B. Hinckley, Teachings of Gordon B. Hinckley, p. 407

Which side are you on patriotsaint? My works testify that I have not been seduced into the plans of Gadianton/Marx/Lenin/Mao/Hitler. Your words testify that you have been seduced, preach false doctrine, encourage the violation of the Religious Freedom Restoration Act by the IRS and lend aid and sympathy to false isms. You appear in need of repentence if you are telling the truth about what you believe. I will pray for you.

I await your response to the RFRA arguments. Naturally you have none of value or substance but I will await them.

[Wiikwajio]

Oh you pay all right...one way or another....you pay!

Really? How? I pay gas taxes but those are used on the roads and I totally support such a fair tax.

Couple guys had a little foot race across the flight line pulling little steel carts loaded with FLIR pods. One of the carts hit a pad-eye and the FLIR rolled off the cart with a cacophony of shattered glass. $700k up in smoke.

Had a HUD on another cart and due to flippant toss of the cart's handle.....hit the bubble wrapped crystal display. $70k up in smoke. Upon getting a new one another person did it again....another $70k up in smoke.

While sitting in the cockpit on a wet rainy night one guy was grabbing hold of the HUD while guy from below was handing it up....miscommunication in terms of who had control....it fell to the ground. $145k up in smoke.

Miscommunication between Air Force air track control tower in Okinawa and Marine F/A-18 pilot....bomb dropped in bay. $5 million up in smoke.

Pilot trying to take a poop in his briefcase while flying. $27 million up in smoke.

etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc!

Oh you pay all right! No one can completely isolate themselves from the system! Either the system gets fixed....or we are all in a bind!!!

So stop paying income tax and they cannot use your own labor against you. Pick up Laban's sword that the Lord gave to you and use it. The RFRA is such a sword but members refuse to use it because it means they must FIRST eschew Socialism and members do not want to eschew Socialism. They want the "benefits" (aka spoils of the plans of Gadianton). They have been seduced and now do not know how to live without Socialism. Isn't it horrible that the prophets said such members would be slaves if they did not eschew Socialism and now that prophesy have been fulfilled?

I cost the State of Nevada a bunch of FRNs today because I shall not allow my liberties to "be disgracefully trodden under foot by lawless marauders without at least a noble effort on our part to sustain our liberties.” Joseph Smith (1844 AD) would not approve.

[Jason]

Oh you pay all right...one way or another....you pay!

Really? How? I pay gas taxes but those are used on the roads and I totally support such a fair tax.

Couple guys had a little foot race across the flight line pulling little steel carts loaded with FLIR pods. One of the carts hit a pad-eye and the FLIR rolled off the cart with a cacophony of shattered glass. $700k up in smoke.

Had a HUD on another cart and due to flippant toss of the cart's handle.....hit the bubble wrapped crystal display. $70k up in smoke. Upon getting a new one another person did it again....another $70k up in smoke.

While sitting in the cockpit on a wet rainy night one guy was grabbing hold of the HUD while guy from below was handing it up....miscommunication in terms of who had control....it fell to the ground. $145k up in smoke.

Miscommunication between Air Force air track control tower in Okinawa and Marine F/A-18 pilot....bomb dropped in bay. $5 million up in smoke.

Pilot trying to take a poop in his briefcase while flying. $27 million up in smoke.

etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc!

Oh you pay all right! No one can completely isolate themselves from the system! Either the system gets fixed....or we are all in a bind!!!

So stop paying income tax and they cannot use your own labor against you. Pick up Laban's sword that the Lord gave to you and use it. The RFRA is such a sword but members refuse to use it because it means they must FIRST eschew Socialism and members do not want to eschew Socialism. They want the "benefits" (aka spoils of the plans of Gadianton). They have been seduced and now do not know how to live without Socialism. Isn't it horrible that the prophets said such members would be slaves if they did not eschew Socialism and now that prophesy have been fulfilled?

I cost the State of Nevada a bunch of FRNs today because I shall not allow my liberties to "be disgracefully trodden under foot by lawless marauders without at least a noble effort on our part to sustain our liberties.” Joseph Smith (1844 AD) would not approve.

How much have you spent fighting the IRS over the years? How much time? What's the opportunity cost involved there?

You pay...just like everyone else!

[patriotsaint]

Elder Oaks never instructed anyone to file a return that the individual was not required by law to file. If so no 8 year old could get baptized since none of them file a return. The fact that you cannot understand that only those required to file by law that people can read and understand are required by law to file a return, demonstrates that Jefferson was right that people that are ignorant cannot be free. You are a fulfillment of Jefferson prophesy.

Justify away. You still are wrong and I will continue to follow the words of the prophets as interpreted by their EXAMPLE. The only freedom on this earth comes from obedience. You are too busy looking for loopholes to simply obey and trust.

When Alma the elder and his people were enslaved by the lamanites/priests of Noah, did the Lord ask them to fight a revolution? No.....he asked them to bear their burdens happily and with patience. He delivered them in His own due time and according to His will. If bearing the burden of taxes is part of our trials, then I can live with that. I will continue to support education of correct principles and fight to see the 16h amendment repealed, but until then I will do as the prophets have counseled.

You look like a bigger fool every time you claim those that pay taxes are socialists or ignorant........the prophets pay taxes. I think I trust their example more than the words of some random guy on a forum.

And when the king-men had taken the government of the Nephites Captain Moroni went in and slaughtered them. You CANNOT show me where LDS have been commanded to be slaves by the Latter-day Prophets as the people of Alma were told. When you can, get back to me. Until then STOP PREACHING FALSE DOCTRINE or you are acting the part of an apostate. Preaching FALSE doctrine is an excommunicatable offense and NO WHERE do the Latter-day Prophets tell Americans to subject themselves to tyranny and Socialism. If they have then SHOW ME!

The Latter-day prophets examples have been to fight unconstitutional acts. Have you read the examples of Brigham Young, John Taylor, Wilford Woodruff? They fought tyranny. They went to Court. They defied evil laws. The Church example TODAY is to support the Religious Freedom Restoration Act. Why would they support it and then not want members to use it in the Courts? Are you claiming the prophets are hypocrites? I certainly do not believe they are hypocrites but you must believe that. Their commands have never changed from: "Devote our time, means, and life if necessary, to hold inviolate those laws which will secure to each individual the free exercise of conscience, the right and control of property, and the protection of life.”

I do that. You do not. Why are you not doing what the prophets have commanded time and again?

I pay all taxes required by law but I am not required to file a 1040 and can find no law that requires me to do so. Can you tell me what law requires me to file? Of course you cannot because there is no law. But if I am in error please tell me the citation like 26 USC Section ??? so that I can challenge it directly in court using the RFRA. You see the burden of proof is on the government to prove it is a compelling government interest AND the least restrictive upon my beliefs. The IRS is currently obeying the RFRA that totally restricts them, because they are acting in a manner that is the least restrictive upon my beliefs. WHY DO YOU WANT THE IRS TO VIOLATE THE RELIGIOUS FREEDOM RESTORATION ACT?

The RFRA has been the law of the land since 1993 AD. Why have you refused to take advantage of it? Why do you remain a slave when you freedom awaits the brave?

BEFORE I can be a person made liable they have to demonstrate TWO things. Do you have ANY evidence that the IRS has made such a demonstration? In fact if this went to court the I would be deemed as likely to prevail because the RFRA sets the highest legal standard that exists.

[T]he Government bears the burden of proof on the ultimate question of [the challenged Act's] constitutionality, respondents [the movants] must be deemed likely to prevail unless the Government has shown that respondents' proposed less restrictive alternatives are less effective than [enforcing the Act].”

Gonzales v. O Centro Espirita Beneficente Uniao do Vegetal 126 S.Ct. 1211, *1219 (U.S.,2006)

Got that. People that use the RFRA are deemed by the United States Supreme Court likely to prevail and yet you will not even try to be free. Why?

[T]he Religious Freedom Restoration Act of 1993,… prohibits the Federal Government from substantially burdening a person's exercise of religion, unless the Government “demonstrates that application of the burden to the person” represents the least restrictive means of advancing a compelling interest. 42 U.S.C. § 2000bb-1(b). …We conclude that the Government has not carried the burden expressly placed on it by Congress in the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, and affirm the grant of the preliminary injunction.

Gonzales v. O Centro Espirita Beneficente Uniao do Vegetal 546 U.S. 418, 423 (2006)

Got that. The burden of proof is on the government. Why have you not used this law to free yourself. Do you LIKE paying Marxists taxes? Do you love your bondage while you defend it?

RFRA …Sweeping coverage ensures its intrusion at every level of government, displacing laws and prohibiting official actions of almost every description and regardless of subject matter. RFRA's restrictions apply to every agency and official of the Federal…Governments. 42 U.S.C. § 2000bb-2(1). RFRA applies to all federal… law, statutory or otherwise, whether adopted before or after its enactment. § 2000bb-3(a). RFRA has no termination date or termination mechanism. Any law is subject to challenge at any time by any individual who alleges a substantial burden on his or her free exercise of religion… If an objector can show a substantial burden on his free exercise, the State [federal government] must demonstrate a compelling governmental interest and show that the law is the least restrictive means of furthering its interest. Claims that a law substantially burdens someone's exercise of religion will often be difficult to contest. See Smith, 494 U.S., at 887, 110 S.Ct., at 1604 (“What principle of law or logic can be brought to bear to contradict a believer's assertion that a particular act is ‘central’ to his personal faith?”); id., at 907, 110 S.Ct., at 1615 (“The distinction between questions of centrality and questions of sincerity and burden is admittedly fine ...”) (O'CONNOR, J., concurring in judgment). Requiring… [the Federal Government] to demonstrate a compelling interest and show that it has adopted the least restrictive means of achieving that interest is the most demanding test known to constitutional law. If “‘compelling interest’ really means what it says..., many laws will not meet the test.... [The test] would open the prospect of constitutionally required religious exemptions from civic obligations of almost every conceivable kind.” Id., at 888, 110 S.Ct., at 1605. Laws valid under Smith would fall under RFRA without regard to whether they had the object of stifling or punishing free exercise. We make these observations not to reargue the position of the majority in Smith but to illustrate the substantive alteration of its holding attempted by RFRA. Even assuming RFRA would be interpreted in effect to mandate some lesser test, say, one equivalent to intermediate scrutiny, the statute nevertheless would require searching judicial scrutiny of [Federal] law with the attendant likelihood of invalidation. (Emphasis added)

City of Boerne v. Flores 521 U.S. 507,532-534 (1997)

GOT THAT? They have to prove it. If the RFRA would have been around in 1880s the Church would have won on polygamy.

The IRS has been unable to show me any law I have to follow that they enforce in 32 years. Even my attorneys have stated that the research I have done along with the letters I have received makes it clear that I am exempt. So why do you believe I should pay a tax the IRS does not enforce and why should they violate the RFRA? If the Prophets don't choose to take advantage of the RFRA to free themselves then THAT IS THEIR PERSONAL CHOICE. I did not marry any of their wives or live in their states or get the same jobs they got either. I have the RIGHT to avail myself of legal remedies and Elder Oaks has CLEARLY stated this. I have done so. You have refused to do so.

Any Latter-day Saint to can do so. It takes a whole lot of time. Maybe the Lord wanted the prophets to spend their time on other issues and leaves the Freedom Fights up to men like me. You know... men that are not ignorant of the laws that can free them and have the guts to use them instead of being voluntary slaves. Men that stayed behind when Alma left that slavery. Would you have stayed behind? Apparently so. Maybe you cannot understand that we are to fight. Not the prophets. The Elders. Obviously you cannot.

Why are you lending aid and sympathy to Marxists? Why are you not a faithful member of the Church because you lend aid and sympathy to false isms? Why are you not taking advantage of the Religious Freedom Restoration Act and instead voluntarily remain a slave? Laban's sword is in your hand and you REFUSE to use it. Why? Why do you refuse to be engaged in the "mighty battle"?

"The voices I hear are persuasive, seductive, fascinating, and confusing. Speaking across the earth, they are part of a mighty battle that is being waged for the minds of men. They are aimed at persuasion in political philosophy. There are voices of democracy competing with voices of communism, and each is winning converts according to the discernment and the judgment of listeners. The stakes are high, the weapons are sophisticated, the methods are clever." President Gordon B. Hinckley, Teachings of Gordon B. Hinckley, p. 407

Which side are you on patriotsaint? My works testify that I have not been seduced into the plans of Gadianton/Marx/Lenin/Mao/Hitler. Your words testify that you have been seduced, preach false doctrine, encourage the violation of the Religious Freedom Restoration Act by the IRS and lend aid and sympathy to false isms. You appear in need of repentence if you are telling the truth about what you believe. I will pray for you.

I await your response to the RFRA arguments. Naturally you have none of value or substance but I will await them.

blah blah blah.

You can keep citing your court cases. You keep searching for loopholes. I'll take the prophets examples over YOUR opinion or any court decision. And by the way, stop citing the prophets because they pay their taxes, so it's hypocritical to cite them in support of your philosophies. You should be condemning them like the rest of us.

Or do you not have the courage to apply your philosophies to prophets and regular church members alike? Go ahead. Tell us how the Church is led by those that have been "seduced, preach false doctrine, encourage the violation of the RFRA and lend aid and sympathy to false isms."

You'll pray for me? Thank you. I never reject a prayer on my behalf. Even a misguided self-righteous one.

[Quiet Cricket]

Oh you pay all right...one way or another....you pay!

Really? How? I pay gas taxes but those are used on the roads and I totally support such a fair tax.

Almost all food is subsidized by the government, not a fair tax. I think we all pay; you probably pay much less though.

[2wet2burn]

In Jesus' time the scribes and pharisees knew the law in and out. What did He say to them.......
Woe unto you
you hippocrites and vipers
and stuff like.......

25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of aextortion and bexcess.
26 Thou blind Pharisee, acleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto awhited bsepulchres, which indeed appear cbeautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones, and of all duncleanness.

I don't think He was impressed with knowledge of the law. I think He was pleased with the faithful, the meek, the humble, etc.

[Jason]

Oh you pay all right...one way or another....you pay!

Really? How? I pay gas taxes but those are used on the roads and I totally support such a fair tax.

Almost all food is subsidized by the government, not a fair tax. I think we all pay; you probably pay much less though.

Actually truth be known....he's probably paid substantially more!