LDS Freedom Forum

pjbrownie wrote:You guys can't all be serious. The Ron Paul vs. Glenn Beck stuff is so old. Last week, Mosby, and you did kind of cherry-pick those quotes, the takeaway was that Glenn was saying that America is moving towards Ron Paul and away from Mitt Romney. He said was moving more towards Ron Paul's ideology. This is a big deal, but Infowars keeps putting up the quotes that Glenn thinks Ron Paul incites terrorism, something he said 72 years ago when no one knew who Ron Paul was and there was no TARP or economic collapse.

Mosby wrote:Nan- I have a harsh reality for you: The National Debt isn't ever going to be paid off.

We can't even pay the interest on the debt, hocus-pocus schemes of "new" taxes (like the one Beck is shopping around) are just another lie so that the Fed Gov can further enslave us, the tax payer.

"paying off the debt" would be like the following-(to compare the National debt common sense "real world" terms)

I'm an average guy who makes $50,000 dollars a year; I own a home that I paid way, way, way too much for ( but the banks gave me the loan-so I took it) my home is worth 778 million dollars- but I've worked out this sweet deal were I only pay $1,200.00 dollars a month for my mortgage.
Well now the bank wants me to pay off the loan- the payment is $245,000k dollars a month- am I really gonna "pay that off"?
No. I'm gonna walk- and the bank will seize my house and ruin my credit (in the old days they would have thrown me in jail)

Simply put their is no possible way I can pay that off- we are in the same boat. The really scary thing is - who are our creditors? ............that's right; China and Russia-...........and a host of Arab nations.

So what do they take "back" in lieu of our debt and what happens to us when we finally walk away from our loan?

My plan? while I don't believe their is a real workable plan ( it's far to late to that) but it starts with freezing programs and eliminating the octopus arms of he fed gov.

Ron Paul is the ONLY ONE out their talking about freezing government programs and talking about the suicide path that we are on.

To simply answer your question:

We are at the mercy of our debtors.

pjbrownie wrote:

Original_Intent wrote:Great post Mosby.

I actually defended GB over on the Ron Paul forums, almost as long as there have been Ron Paul forums. I always felt that Beck was "coming around" and that he was going thru an awakening process.

But your post nails it - Beck's rhetoric is close to perfect, but when it comes to rubber hitting the road Beck has consistently sabotaged the people who embody the principles that he endorses and also consistently supports the establishment favorite - add Perry of Texas to your list of Romney and Palin, and I can bet you dollars to dimes that IF he ever opines on the Kentucky Senator race it will be to undermine FRONT-RUNNER Rand Paul and support trailing in the polls but Washington establishment darling Trey Grayson.

And this support for a "temporary Valu Added Tax" - Wow! that is completely contrary to everything he says, and temporary taxes have a history of getting extended and eventually becoming permanent.

Glenn says a lot of good things, and certainly encouragin people to study the founding documents and writings of the founders is good advice. But whether from his own lack of understanding or by the order of those who write his paychecks, Glenn's actions have not matched his words. I consider him controlled opposition.

I actually find this post very thoughtful and balanced, but I don't buy the controlled opposition. He's too erratic for that. He could be, but it's just as likely that he's creating his own misinformation campaign to throw off "his handlers" or that he's evolving. You are right though, when it comes down to the brass tacks, he always seems to side with the establishment right. It's disappointing.

pjbrownie wrote:

Original_Intent wrote:Great post Mosby.

I actually defended GB over on the Ron Paul forums, almost as long as there have been Ron Paul forums. I always felt that Beck was "coming around" and that he was going thru an awakening process.

But your post nails it - Beck's rhetoric is close to perfect, but when it comes to rubber hitting the road Beck has consistently sabotaged the people who embody the principles that he endorses and also consistently supports the establishment favorite - add Perry of Texas to your list of Romney and Palin, and I can bet you dollars to dimes that IF he ever opines on the Kentucky Senator race it will be to undermine FRONT-RUNNER Rand Paul and support trailing in the polls but Washington establishment darling Trey Grayson.

And this support for a "temporary Valu Added Tax" - Wow! that is completely contrary to everything he says, and temporary taxes have a history of getting extended and eventually becoming permanent.

Glenn says a lot of good things, and certainly encouragin people to study the founding documents and writings of the founders is good advice. But whether from his own lack of understanding or by the order of those who write his paychecks, Glenn's actions have not matched his words. I consider him controlled opposition.

I actually find this post very thoughtful and balanced, but I don't buy the controlled opposition. He's too erratic for that. He could be, but it's just as likely that he's creating his own misinformation campaign to throw off "his handlers" or that he's evolving. You are right though, when it comes down to the brass tacks, he always seems to side with the establishment right. It's disappointing.

Last week, Mosby, and you did kind of cherry-pick those quotes, the takeaway was that Glenn was saying that America is moving towards Ron Paul and away from Mitt Romney. He said was moving more towards Ron Paul's ideology.

Glenn is literally risking his life by going against the tide here.

dconrad000 wrote:Here is how I see it:

Controlled Opposition

From the standpoint of Rupert Murdock and his ilk -- who write GB's checks...it is called controlled opposition. They need a place for conservatives to tune in, where they can have some control. It does not hurt the secret combination that much to have GB talk about the constitution; government corruption; warning against socialism and communism; warning people that hard times are ahead and they should get prepared, etc., etc. Good conservatives already understand those things, anyway...and those are areas that conservatives can and do resonate with GB on.

Where they really get their $40 million dollars per year's worth with GB, however -- is to have him demonizing the 9/11 truth movement; and at critical junctures, when it makes a difference in elections -- to have true constitutionalists like Ron Paul and Debra Medina derailed. (He then of course, after the damage is done & it's too late -- always seems to come out and says I'm sorry, I was wrong.)

They have also certainly gotten their money's worth, as well with GB's promotion of George Bush & his policies (the entire time he was in office); beating the drums for the phony war on terror; pushing through the Patriot Acts I & II; pushing through the Bankster Bailout; promoting new taxes to pay for the Bankster Bail out...and of course only when the jig is up on all those things and it's too late, does GB then seem to always come out against those things...so that his conservative audience can forgive him and say he's growing, he's changing.

Whether GB is aware of it or not...whether he is sincere in the things that he does or not...he is being played like a fiddle...and I can assure you, that those cunning men who are paying out the $40 million per year feel as though they are certainly getting their money's worth.

Mark wrote:

ready2prepare wrote:

Mark wrote:Here is the real Glenn Beck. Anyone who is watching
his shows knows that Glenn is sincere in wanting to make
a difference in the battle against the anti-God anti founders
anti constitution crowd who have practiced revisionist history
over the years in order to gain more power and control over
the minds of those who do not know any better. Why do
people here only focus on displaying those like Glenn Beck in
a negative light and completely discount any positives? If
I didn't know better I would wonder if something sinister was
at work. Do we have some progressives on board?

I have a lot of positive things to say about
Glenn Beck and I have said them in the past.

But with all due respect, Mark, I believe sincere
people can be sincerely deceived, and express
that deception with sincerity.

That's why we need the spirit of discernment
to keep our "bogus meter" running properly.

Best Regards,
Sharon in Mississippi

I appreciate your thoughts Sharon and know that anyone can be deceived. However I have been watching Glenns direction he has taken recently on his shows and he is sincere in wanting to have people rediscover the founders messages and what they stood for.

I wish I could agree with you Mark. Is he sincere? He helped sabotage Ron Paul's campaign when he ran for president by making fun of him and his Constitutional ideals and even going as far as accusing him of his followers being the insane 9/11 truthers and then once he had to bow out after the primaries, he was suddenly on the Ron Paul bandwagon because he was being proven right about what he has been warning about RE the 'Fed' and our financial/economic situation. Nice. Then he turns around and does the same thing to Debra Medina. His actions speak louder than his words. On one hand, he seems to be trying to help promote the Constitution and Founding Fathers, but on the other, he is sabotaging people who espouse what he is preaching. I wouldn't call that sincerity, I'd call it hypocrisy.

How could anyone possibly say that he is trying to deceive people by presenting the writings of Washington and Adams and Franklin and Jefferson ect etc on the proper role of govt.? Yet many here continue to flame Glenn as a deceiver because he works for Fox news yet I imagine they probably don't even take the time to watch his shows that I am posting here. That is so closed minded and judgemental to me that I am staggered by it. Whatever floats peoples boats I guess. I personally think it is very unfair and borders on bearing false witness against ones Brother. As PJ said somebody here give me some proof that Glenn is a deceiver and a charleton or quit trashing the man based on assumption.

Mark... do a little research into Rupert Murdoch's past and present political/business dealings. This is the guy who is Glenn's boss. It will begin to make sense what Glenn is doing.

Mosby wrote:

I imagine they probably don't even take the time to watch his shows that I am posting here. That is so closed minded and judgemental to me that I am staggered by it. Whatever floats peoples boats I guess. I personally think it is very unfair and borders on bearing false witness against ones Brother. As PJ said somebody here give me some proof that Glenn is a deceiver and a charleton or quit trashing the man based on assumption.

Well I guess it's time once again for the three-ringed-circus that is the "Glenn Beck debate"......whew, deep breath............ok, here I go...........

Ok, I have noticed a pattern with the Beck apologists here- namely the "thou shalt not judge the man" or "the bearing false witness" or "too critical" . I think that is a false argument, period.

I base my entire opinion of Glenn Beck upon listening to him for about 3 years off and on ( as much as I can stand) - to be in a position to base an intelligent decision of which "side" Beck is on.

Oh sure Beck talks a great game, but it's the ACTIONS that prove the man. That's the real litmus test for any one -let's see what they actually do- not what they SAY.

Beck tells us to read,read,read, and study,study,study the words of the founders - but then when he has candidates that embody those traits and knowledge of the founders- he attacks them in the most vicious manner ( yes I realize you apologists are tried of hearing the name Ron Paul and Debra Medina- as tried as I am of Beck attacking them)- but his actions don't match his rhetoric.

I just heard Beck (yes Mark I DO listen) Bust-out Ron Paul AGAIN this week as having a "terrible foreign policy" - and not someone he could support for president, yet in the same breath he gives a green light to Mitt socialized medicine Romney.
I've noticed that Glenn carefully steers away from any discussion of Ron Paul as a serious candidate - in spite of the fact that Ron has won the recent straw polls.

Why is this? Can any of you apologists explain this? Ron Paul is not the "end all" - but it is safe to say that he is head and shoulders above any of the other candidates- in fact many LDS scholars such as Joel Skousen and Connor Boyack have expressed their feeling that RP is the closest thing to a founding father-type candidate that we have had in the last century.

So why does Beck - who wields "tipping point" type of power with the masses continue to marginalize, mock,and ignore Ron-while supporting establishment wolves like Romney and Palin? I'm all ears for your explanation.

His theme music and his own words also tell us to "search for answers everywhere".......that is unless your search for answers takes you to 9-11 truth, then according to Beck you are a "kook" and "homegrown terrorist" - the same goes for you if your search for answers takes you to the belief that the IRS should be abolished- then you are, according to Glenn a "dangerous extremist"

That doesn't sound like a man who is really on the side of Freedom to me- care to explain that away apologists?

Next point- I've grown tired of Beck's use of profanity and sexual innuendo to get his point across, like I've said before Becks behavior is unbecoming of a 16 year old priest- much less a growth man with a national audience.
Speaking of kissing men on the mouth and being "hot for them" is sophomoric and unbecoming of a Latter Day Saint at best.

Hey look- I would LOVE IT if Beck wasn't an "establishment tool" - it would be great, I'm not a "hater" - we need lovers of liberty and freedom.

Nothing I see about Beck shows me that he loves true liberty and freedom more than money- his actions tell me otherwise.

Mosby wrote:

Glenn is literally risking his life by going against the tide here.

No, actually that would be Alex Jones who is risking his life "going against the tide"

Col. Flagg wrote:

Mosby wrote:

Glenn is literally risking his life by going against the tide here.

No, actually that would be Alex Jones who is risking his life "going against the tide"

Actually, people like Beck and Jones have little to fear with regard to their lives... they are too 'high profile' to be taken out at this point. Same with Ron Paul... if anything were to happen to any of these three men, the establishment knows they'll be fingered as the culprit in order to silence them once and for all.

dconrad000 wrote:...from another thread...applies here, also...

dconrad000 wrote:Here is how I see it:

Controlled Opposition

From the standpoint of Rupert Murdock and his ilk -- who write GB's checks...it is called controlled opposition. They need a place for conservatives to tune in, where they can have some control. It does not hurt the secret combination that much to have GB talk about the constitution; government corruption; warning against socialism and communism; warning people that hard times are ahead and they should get prepared, etc., etc. Good conservatives already understand those things, anyway...and those are areas that conservatives can and do resonate with GB on.

Where they really get their $40 million dollars per year's worth with GB, however -- is to have him demonizing the 9/11 truth movement; and at critical junctures, when it makes a difference in elections -- to have true constitutionalists like Ron Paul and Debra Medina derailed. (He then of course, after the damage is done & it's too late -- always seems to come out and says I'm sorry, I was wrong.)

They have also certainly gotten their money's worth, as well with GB's promotion of George Bush & his policies (the entire time he was in office); beating the drums for the phony war on terror; pushing through the Patriot Acts I & II; pushing through the Bankster Bailout; promoting new taxes to pay for the Bankster Bail out...and of course only when the jig is up on all those things and it's too late, does GB then seem to always come out against those things...so that his conservative audience can forgive him and say he's growing, he's changing.

Whether GB is aware of it or not...whether he is sincere in the things that he does or not...he is being played like a fiddle...and I can assure you, that those cunning men who are paying out the $40 million per year feel as though they are certainly getting their money's worth.

Black Swan wrote:Just how handsomely does it pay to be one of the most controversial men in America? For Glenn Beck, $32 million.

Beck, who became a household name in 2009, pulled in the shocking sum through a revenue stream that includes books, radio, TV, digital media, and speaking fees.

Interestingly, Forbes reports that Beck's Fox News contract is the least lucrative of all his ventures.

According to the Forbes analysis, Beck earned $12 million from book sales thanks to his "profit participation co-venture with Simon & Schuster typically reserved for authors like Stephen King." He has a five-year, $50 million contract with Premiere Radio Networks that netted $10 million for the year. His website, supported by both ads and an "Insider" subscription service as well as retail merchandise sales, brought in another $4 million. Speaking fees and events like his "Bold Fresh Tour" with Bill O'Reilly earned him $3 million, and his Fox News contract brought in $2 million. Add in a final $1 million from his Fusion magazine, and Beck had a $32 million year.

Beck told Forbes that he is more interested in the business than the politics of what he does.

"I could give a flying crap about the political process," he said. "We're an entertainment company."

Col. Flagg wrote:

Mosby wrote:

Glenn is literally risking his life by going against the tide here.

No, actually that would be Alex Jones who is risking his life "going against the tide"

Actually, people like Beck and Jones have little to fear with regard to their lives... they are too 'high profile' to be taken out at this point. Same with Ron Paul... if anything were to happen to any of these three men, the establishment knows they'll be fingered as the culprit in order to silence them once and for all.

Why would the PTB want to take out Glenn Beck? He works for FOX! All they have to do is take away his show and stop his salary.

You're right, only a bullet is going to shut Alex Jones up!

At the moment Glenn Beck is doing what Fox want him to do. He sits in front of pictures of Franklin and Jefferson et al. with the words Faith, Hope and Charity emblazoned below and says that he believes in the Constitution and the Founding Fathers, and it all sounds good and true and remotely patriotic...and then he tells you to pay your taxes and more taxes and to be a good little servant of the Elite and not question anything otherwise you're a terrorist.

I think they call that type of person a Judas Goat. He sounds familiar, he looks and smells familar, he gets your trust, he reels you in, gets you to follow him...and then when you get there you realize you've been stitched up!

And no, he doesn't even do a good impersonation of a Latter Day Saint! 8)

pjbrownie wrote:

Why would the PTB want to take out Glenn Beck? He works for FOX! All they have to do is take away his show and stop his salary.

You're right, only a bullet is going to shut Alex Jones up!

At the moment Glenn Beck is doing what Fox want him to do. He sits in front of pictures of Franklin and Jefferson et al. with the words Faith, Hope and Charity emblazoned below and says that he believes in the Constitution and the Founding Fathers, and it all sounds good and true and remotely patriotic...and then he tells you to pay your taxes and more taxes and to be a good little servant of the Elite and not question anything otherwise you're a terrorist.

I think they call that type of person a Judas Goat. He sounds familiar, he looks and smells familar, he gets your trust, he reels you in, gets you to follow him...and then when you get there you realize you've been stitched up!

And no, he doesn't even do a good impersonation of a Latter Day Saint! 8)

Luke it would be hard to do this, but I bet you take a poll of GB listeners, and I bet what you get is exactly opposite of what you are painting here. It's just as likely that he is towing some sort of a line but at the same time undermining "his handlers" if he has any, then he is blatantly misleading the unwashed. The problem with your logic is that it's not working. Too many of Beck's listeners are waking up and realizing things like the WTC buildings were demoed, that we need to get out of Iraq, etc. etc. and disagree with the Beckster on these things he stated publicly. If he's intentionally misleading, it sure isn't working because he logic stinks on ice when it comes to conspiracy stuff. Now he's out trying to get people to read Carroll Quigley's book, Tragedy and Hope, the virtual Bible of the Skousenite Birchers. He sells it as something completely different than Skousen, but that's not the point is it? The point is that people are reading it and finding out that there IS a conspiracy, even as he mouths that there isn't. You call it misleading. Seems more like strategy to me.

Mark wrote:Interesting thought PJ. Maybe Glenn has outsmarted all his naysayers who are stuck on one paradigm beating the same NWO conspiracy drum. Had he followed the Alex Jones tactics he would never get to the point he has because he would have been marginalized and demonized by everyone but the most rabid conspiracy chasers. TPTB have Jones and his ilk in their back pocket and can lead them around wherever and whenever they want. They know that the masses think Jones is a kook and just laugh at and mock him and his bull horn antics. That is exactly what they expect and want the public to do. He is the perfect useful idiot for their overall plan because any truth he comes out with is discounted as the ravings of a lunatic..

Col. Flagg wrote:

Mosby wrote:

Glenn is literally risking his life by going against the tide here.

No, actually that would be Alex Jones who is risking his life "going against the tide"

Actually, people like Beck and Jones have little to fear with regard to their lives... they are too 'high profile' to be taken out at this point. Same with Ron Paul... if anything were to happen to any of these three men, the establishment knows they'll be fingered as the culprit in order to silence them once and for all.

Jason wrote:

Col. Flagg wrote: Actually, people like Beck and Jones have little to fear with regard to their lives... they are too 'high profile' to be taken out at this point. Same with Ron Paul... if anything were to happen to any of these three men, the establishment knows they'll be fingered as the culprit in order to silence them once and for all.

Tell that to JFK!

Col. Flagg wrote:

Mark wrote:Interesting thought PJ. Maybe Glenn has outsmarted all his naysayers who are stuck on one paradigm beating the same NWO conspiracy drum. Had he followed the Alex Jones tactics he would never get to the point he has because he would have been marginalized and demonized by everyone but the most rabid conspiracy chasers. TPTB have Jones and his ilk in their back pocket and can lead them around wherever and whenever they want. They know that the masses think Jones is a kook and just laugh at and mock him and his bull horn antics. That is exactly what they expect and want the public to do. He is the perfect useful idiot for their overall plan because any truth he comes out with is discounted as the ravings of a lunatic..

Mark, I think you make a pretty good point here, however, at least Alex Jones isn't afraid to tackle the real, cold, hard truth and expose the lies, fraud and deception from the establishment. Glenn will only go so far... AJ goes all the way... this is what separates him from someone like Glenn Beck. But I see your point... by Beck only going so far, he can be taken more seriously by the public since he won't get labeled as a nut or 'fringe' by the PTB. But who do you respect more... someone like AJ whose mission is to expose the truth no matter the consequence or Glenn Beck, who only goes so far and then stops short in order to preserve his 'status' with the big boys?

TonyOlsen wrote:You know, if I weren't an honest man, I'd be really tempted to start a fallacious new thread titled "President Monson Goes Apostate", and in the initial post I'd make up some story about how President Monson was caught selling U.S. Nuclear missiles to Iran, or something completely ridiculous like that...

...just to see if the wolves appear and start joining in on the bashing of President Monson. It almost seems like some zealots here are anxious to out-bash someone else on whatever the new target of the day is.

Do you love your neighbors? ...or is it just show while you've already condemned them to Hell?

Is there anyone this group does NOT associate with Satan himself? Is there anything this group would consider Holy ground? Is there anything that this group considers "virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy"? Is there anyone that this group feels love for (Other than Ron Paul)?

...anyone?

(I don't really mean everyone... it seems to be the vocal minority... but they sure do paint a bleak picture for everyone else)

Col. Flagg wrote:

Jason wrote:

Col. Flagg wrote: Actually, people like Beck and Jones have little to fear with regard to their lives... they are too 'high profile' to be taken out at this point. Same with Ron Paul... if anything were to happen to any of these three men, the establishment knows they'll be fingered as the culprit in order to silence them once and for all.

Tell that to JFK!

Jason, there's one big difference... JFK was prez and had the power to, for example, end the 'Fed' and in fact, had penned executive order 11110 to end the 'Fed' and its power/control over our money:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_11110

AJ, Beck and Ron Paul do not have the power of the pen.