An LDS 9/11

[Mahonri]

To begin with, (most of you know) that I am a 9/11 agnostic. Meaning I don't really believe the entire government story, but I also have not seen enough evidence to say for sure that GW Bush and Co. went in some Saturday night and planted bombs, or flew remote control airplanes, etc.

Back to my point: I heard someone say, "You can't talk about 9/11". The context was they were saying it was a taboo subject in the mainstream media.

I was thinking, is there is an LDS "9/11"? Are there Gospel topics you just don't talk about in Church for the same reasons you can't talk about 9/11 in the mainstream media?

Love to hear some thoughts on this.


FOLLOW UP
Why is it taboo? Is it good that it is taboo and why?

[mackej]

Good question. I've got one: how about the fact that Joseph Smith had WAY more wives than just Emma?
By the way, FAIR (they have a website) is a great place to go to get answers to all those "taboo" questions.

[Mahonri]

That is a good one. However, FAIR is the LDS equivalent to the anti Mormon; using the same tactics they use, only in reverse.

half truths, omissions, and in some cases outright untruths (I wont call it a lie because maybe they really don't know, but...)

Using FAIR to defend the faith with an informed investigator will make one look foolish on certain topics. Plural Marriage (as you mentioned) being one of them.

[moonwhim]

Two obvious subjects you can't talk about are secret combinations and The Word of Wisdom.

You can quote all the scriptures you want to about secret combinations but don't try to relate any of them to existing people or organizations.

The word of wisdom says to eat meat sparingly and the next verse says that it is pleasing unto the Lord that you eat it only in times of cold or famine. When I said that in sunday school, one person said that the Lord does not forbid us from eating meat and another person said the restriction on eating meat was only because their was not good refrigeration in those days.

[Mahonri]

another person said the restriction on eating meat was only because their was not good refrigeration in those days.

That comes from the institute manual. Not stating my position one way or the other, it's taboo.

[shadow]

The word of wisdom says to eat meat sparingly and the next verse says that it is pleasing unto the Lord that you eat it only in times of cold or famine.

Actually the second verse you are referring to says it should not be used only in times of winter cold or famine

[Cowell]

I think that it is good that it is taboo for people who can't handle reality. Very convenient.

[bobhenstra]

I think that it is good that it is taboo for people who can't handle reality. Very convenient.

Salad is just very rare steak Two very important things you cannot talk about.

One: Anything your current priesthood leaders do not understand, and

two; Any topic deemed as going "beyond the mark" by anyone, doesn't mater who!

Bob

[Cowell]

Killing Jews was a taboo subject in Nazi Germany too. That's why the Americans forced the German upper class to walk through the concentration camps to see the horror they caused, so they could no longer deny it. Now you are a holocaust denier if you don't acknowledge it. Just like anyone who knows the truth about 9/11 and denys it is a traitor to this county IMO.

[bbrown]

In my ward if you talk of something that is unknown to the teacher or quorum leader, it is called a mystery that we shouldn't worry about or discuss, even if the specific answer is in the previous priesthood manual series or D&C.

That being said our Bishop is quiet knowledgable and fairly aware of things, I was even asked to give a talk on freedom once, a lot of the members were very upset with what I said (nothing that hadn't been said in general conference, and mostly by then current authorities.

Also dicussing having a number of children or even having several children will result in mockery and insults.

[notjamesbond003.5]

Mahonri, I think the subject matter of this thread is beneath you-based on your posts.

But here's a list:

Brigham Young and inter racial marriage/Priesthood statements
Danites
Mark Hoffman duping of Gen Authorities
Joseph's unvarnished history-not the polished one.
If Christ was married or not
Joseph taking other priesthood holders wives as his.

there are a bunch, what's the point tho?

I think we needn't spend our mortal probation on non faith promoting tangents, but instead listen to the current Prophet, practice Charity, learn and practice Compassion and become Pure and Perfected thru the Atonement.

Why can't we have discussions on those topics I listed directly above instead of the sensational, fantastic-o non faith promoting conspiracies and tangents that a certain sect here seems to be pre occupied with?

njb

[kgrigio]

How about trying to question priesthood holders as to why they won't do their home teaching. In our ward this is very taboo, you are just suppose to ask if they completed their home teaching, not why they haven't done any home teaching for the last decade and why they won't.

In fact, I am finding it a bit disturbing that more and more in the church on the local level we seem to shy away from anything that makes the members feel uncomfortable, which the exception of pornography. I think sometimes we are to worried about getting people to church and walking on eggshells to not offend them that we shy away from testifying via the Spirit of those things that really need to be said.

An example, we have several women in our ward of "high regard" that think it is their place to determine who is and isn't worthy to be attending church. If they deem someone not worthy to be in the ward building, they make that person or persons feel outcast and unloved in hopes they leave. Everyone knows this goes on, we talk about it in PEC, but no one wants to confront them for fear that they may leave and we may lose a whole axillary leadership.

That may not be what you are looking for in response to your question, but to me those are the taboos that frustrate me.

[patriotsaint]

To find a taboo subject, just look at any post here that has involved heated debate on both sides:

Birth Control
Certain Political Themes
Secret Combinations (such as 9-11)
Polygamy

This is just a sampling, there are many many more. Maybe my ward is different than yours, butanything other than watered-down basics are frowned upon. It almost seems like the goal is to teach things people are already doing so they can feel good about themselves, instead of teaching things that cause us to stretch.

The few comments I have made regarding secret combinations in Sunday School have been met with glazed over stares. Regarding politics, it seems most members of the Church I have met are more anti-democrat/obama than pro-liberty.

In the end, it seems any teaching that is not in line with the majority opinion of ward members is taboo. In general people don't like to be told any of their positions are wrong. It's easier to ignore certain topics rather than run the risk of discovering one of your cherished paradigms is incorrect.

[durangout]

How about trying to question priesthood holders as to why they won't do their home teaching. In our ward this is very taboo, you are just suppose to ask if they completed their home teaching, not why they haven't done any home teaching for the last decade and why they won't.

In fact, I am finding it a bit disturbing that more and more in the church on the local level we seem to shy away from anything that makes the members feel uncomfortable, which the exception of pornography. I think sometimes we are to worried about getting people to church and walking on eggshells to not offend them that we shy away from testifying via the Spirit of those things that really need to be said.

An example, we have several women in our ward of "high regard" that think it is their place to determine who is and isn't worthy to be attending church. If they deem someone not worthy to be in the ward building, they make that person or persons feel outcast and unloved in hopes they leave. Everyone knows this goes on, we talk about it in PEC, but no one wants to confront them for fear that they may leave and we may lose a whole axillary leadership.

That may not be what you are looking for in response to your question, but to me those are the taboos that frustrate me.

The situtation that you describe in your ward has nothing to do with sa topic being taboo. It is a clear breakdown in leadership and spirtuality of the members. It is also an example of why He will clean "his house first" and why Isaiah, Mormon and other prophest have condemed Ephraim / Gentiles of the last days (us).

[Mahonri]

I did not mean for this to turn into a gripe session.

I meant to have a general discussion of why are they taboo, and should they be? Why or why not, and if not what would be good to do about it.

[notjamesbond003.5]

I did not mean for this to turn into a gripe session.

I meant to have a general discussion of why are they taboo, and should they be? Why or why not, and if not what would be good to do about it.

The topics listed are not faith promoting nor conducive to the Spirit, they are an apostate's fodder and or wet dream.

njb

[Mahonri]

so the topic of taboo topics is taboo? Interesting. I appreciate your clarification minister of truth.

Knowing and understanding the truth is always faith promoting. It is when one learns about something "taboo" and then is not allowed to ask about it that is not faith promoting.

As members of the restoration of the true Gospel of Jesus Christ, we have nothing to hide from anyone.

[Zowieink]

I don't know. I think this stuff is all trivia and of no real worth. They don't hold a candle to learning all there is to know about the temple or Jesus Christ. I'm a convert to the Church, and have been batteedr with the anti-mormon stuff most of my life, from "friends".

All of the taboo questions have answers, but are we, as members who can't even get past the very very basic gospel essentials, ready meaning spiritually ready to hear the answers. Heck, we can't even do the simplist things, like home teaching, or go to temple one a YEAR . I firmly believe that if we have a question, then we ask Heavenly Father after we have studied it out in our minds. If we receive a stupor of thought, drop the whole thing because its not important to our salvation. If we, however, receive and answer through the Holy Ghost, then we should treasure it up as a blessing.

Its way to easy for Satan to come in and mess up our minds with the deeper aspects of the gospel. We must be spiritually ready.

[ShawnC]

I think that it is good that it is taboo for people who can't handle reality. Very convenient.

Salad is just very rare steak Two very important things you cannot talk about.

One: Anything your current priesthood leaders do not understand, and

two; Any topic deemed as going "beyond the mark" by anyone, doesn't mater who!

Bob

Awesome! You're great Bob!

[patriotsaint]

I did not mean for this to turn into a gripe session.

I meant to have a general discussion of why are they taboo, and should they be? Why or why not, and if not what would be good to do about it.

The topics listed are not faith promoting nor conducive to the Spirit, they are an apostate's fodder and or wet dream.

njb

Yes, the topics you listed are apostate fodder, but not all taboo topics are. The existence of this forum can be attributed to the fact that some things cannot be easily discussed at church.

None of us would be here if we were being fed in these areas in our home wards. There are obviously topics we wish to discuss and if there was a better place to discuss them we wouldn't participate here.

[Mahonri]

I don't know. I think this stuff is all trivia and of no real worth. They don't hold a candle to learning all there is to know about the temple or Jesus Christ. I'm a convert to the Church, and have been batteedr with the anti-mormon stuff most of my life, from "friends".

All of the taboo questions have answers, but are we, as members who can't even get past the very very basic gospel essentials, ready meaning spiritually ready to hear the answers. Heck, we can't even do the simplist things, like home teaching, or go to temple one a YEAR . I firmly believe that if we have a question, then we ask Heavenly Father after we have studied it out in our minds. If we receive a stupor of thought, drop the whole thing because its not important to our salvation. If we, however, receive and answer through the Holy Ghost, then we should treasure it up as a blessing.

Its way to easy for Satan to come in and mess up our minds with the deeper aspects of the gospel. We must be spiritually ready.

That's a good point for the, "yes their are taboo, and they should be taboo."

Yes, certain things are so sacred, that they should not be thrown around willy nilly.

In government it seems there is a different standard, that nothing should be kept quiet.

In the Gospel though, we do not throw pearls before swine.

I think this is very hard for many people to grasp, and some secrecy or hush hush about topics really bothers them because they apply the same litmus test to the Gospel as they do to government. And that litmus test does not always apply equally.

Some things though in the Church are kept hush hush for the lamest and most ridiculous of reasons, which again leads some to confusion.

It can be hard for some to distinguish between things kept sacred and things some moron just doesn't want to discuss

[mackej]

I think it's unfortunate that we have taboo subjects in the Church. Aren't we supposed to be constantly searching for more light and knowledge? If some of those subjects that anti-Mormons like to bring up were talked about more openly, I think they would lose a lot of their power as "fodder." Of course, it's not like you're going to bring up these issues at the first discussion, but I think it's wrong if stuff is purposely hidden from both investigators and members. After all, they're likely to find out at some point anyway -- it might as well be by someone who is still faithful despite the issues.

I understand that some might find FAIR to be untruthful. Of course, it's important not to take everything for face value. Obviously, the people in that organization have a bias (but then, so do I, and I make no apologies for that!). I do give credit to them for at least attempting to tackle the issues, though. It helps me with my own faith to know that there are people who study church history in GREAT depth, and still believe in the truthfulness of the gospel.

On the other hand, though, I think people can get too focused on the taboo subjects, and it will ultimately damage the influence of the Spirit in their lives. I think we can and should prioritize what "further light and knowledge" we wish to seek After all, IMHO, I don't think we benefit too much spiritually from studying all those taboo subjects in depth other than for two reasons: 1. the realization (yet again) that we're all imperfect, and the Lord, in His infinite wisdom, manages to keep His work rolling forward, despite all; and 2. as I said before, if we know, it's no longer a mystery, and thus no longer a powerful weapon for anti's to use.

Here's one more thought -- knowledge is important to our agency. If we are kept in ignorance, then we are not given the opportunity to make choices.

[caddis]

The word of wisdom says to eat meat sparingly and the next verse says that it is pleasing unto the Lord that you eat it only in times of cold or famine.

Actually the second verse you are referring to says it should not be used only in times of winter cold or famine

+1

[notjamesbond003.5]

Some things though in the Church are kept hush hush for the lamest and most ridiculous of reasons, which again leads some to confusion.

They're kept hushed hushed for a reason: they are not pertinent for our Exaltation.

And you might want to read this again:

I don't know. I think this stuff is all trivia and of no real worth. They don't hold a candle to learning all there is to know about the temple or Jesus Christ. I'm a convert to the Church, and have been batteedr with the anti-mormon stuff most of my life, from "friends".

All of the taboo questions have answers, but are we, as members who can't even get past the very very basic gospel essentials, ready meaning spiritually ready to hear the answers. Heck, we can't even do the simplist things, like home teaching, or go to temple one a YEAR . I firmly believe that if we have a question, then we ask Heavenly Father after we have studied it out in our minds. If we receive a stupor of thought, drop the whole thing because its not important to our salvation. If we, however, receive and answer through the Holy Ghost, then we should treasure it up as a blessing.

Its way to easy for Satan to come in and mess up our minds with the deeper aspects of the gospel. We must be spiritually ready.

[/quote]

Mahonri

Instead of resorting to name calling, we may want to work on our meekness.

Read you,
njb

[kathyn]

I don't know. I think this stuff is all trivia and of no real worth. They don't hold a candle to learning all there is to know about the temple or Jesus Christ. I'm a convert to the Church, and have been batteedr with the anti-mormon stuff most of my life, from "friends".

All of the taboo questions have answers, but are we, as members who can't even get past the very very basic gospel essentials, ready meaning spiritually ready to hear the answers. Heck, we can't even do the simplist things, like home teaching, or go to temple one a YEAR . I firmly believe that if we have a question, then we ask Heavenly Father after we have studied it out in our minds. If we receive a stupor of thought, drop the whole thing because its not important to our salvation. If we, however, receive and answer through the Holy Ghost, then we should treasure it up as a blessing.

Its way to easy for Satan to come in and mess up our minds with the deeper aspects of the gospel. We must be spiritually ready.

+1. In the evening session of our stake conference last night, the topic was going to the temple...nothing else....just the blessings of the temple. And it was the most spiritual conference I have attended in a long time. We had no visiting authorities. Our stake pres'y spoke, along with stake members who are serving in the JR Temple. And I realized that this is where the most important answers are .