NO PROGRESSION FROM KINGDOM TO KINGDOM
Eternal Progression
ADVANCEMENT FROM LOWER TO HIGHER. It has been asked if it is possible for one who inherits the telestial glory to advance in time to the celestial glory?
The answer to this question is, No!
The scriptures are clear on this point. Speaking of those who go to the telestial kingdom, the revelation says: "And they shall be servants of the Most High; but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end."fn
Notwithstanding this statement, those who do not comprehend the word of the Lord argue that while this is true, that they cannot go where God is "worlds without end," yet in time they will get where God was, but he will have gone on to other heights.
This is false reasoning, illogical, and creates mischief in making people think they may procrastinate their repentance, but in course of time they will reach exaltation in celestial glory.
PROGRESS IN DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS. Now let us see how faulty this reasoning is. If in time those who enter the telestial glory may progress till they reach the stage in which the celestial is in now-then they are in celestial glory, are they not, even if the celestial has advanced? That being the case (I state this for the argument only, for it is not true), then they partake of all the blessings which are now celestial. That means that they become gods, have exaltation, gain the fulness of the Father, and receive a continuation of the "seeds forever." The Lord, however, has said that these blessings, which are celestial blessings, they may never have; they are barred forever!
The celestial and terrestrial and telestial glories, I have heard compared to the wheels on a train. The second and third may, and will, reach the place where the first was, but the first will have moved on and will still be just the same distance in advance of them. This illustration is not true! The wheels do not run on the same track, and do not go in the same direction. The terrestrial and the telestial are limited in their powers of advancement, worlds without end.
LIMITATION ON CELESTIAL PROGRESSION. In section 131, the Lord has said, through the Prophet Joseph Smith: "In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees; And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage]; And if he does not, he cannot obtain it. He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase."fn So, we see, even in the celestial, some are barred and cannot go on to exaltation.
PFurther light is thrown on this in section 132: "For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity, and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever."fn These angels, spoken of here, include those who enter the celestial kingdom but do not gain the highest glory in that kingdom.
In this same section the Lord says: "Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my law ye cannot attain to this glory. For strait is the gate, and narrow the way that leadeth unto the exaltation and continuation of the lives, and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in the world neither do ye know me. But if ye receive me in the world, then shall ye know me, and shall receive your exaltation; that where I am ye shall be also.
P"This is eternal lives-to know the only wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath sent. I am he. Receive ye, therefore, my law. Broad is the gate, and wide the way that leadeth to the deaths; and many there are that go in thereat, because they receive me not, neither do they abide in my law."fn
Now, if a man is deprived of the "continuation of the lives" for ever-and not to have these blessings is referred to as leading to the deaths, or the lack of the continuation of the lives, or increase-then he cannot "worlds without end" reach the celestial glory; for the celestial glory is "the continuation of the lives" or increase eternally; it is to be gods, even the sons of God.
DIFFERENCES IN KIND OF RESURRECTED BODIES. In section 88 of the Doctrine and Covenants, we are taught that there is a difference in the kinds of resurrection. Some will be raised with celestial bodies; some with terrestrial bodies, and some with telestial bodies; and yet others will be raised with bodies without any qualification or power of glory, and these will be sons of perdition. Read verses 17-33. Paul bears witness of this in the following words:
"But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body to they come? Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
"All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another…. So also is the resurrection of the dead."fn
If a man will enter into life, then he must abide in the law of the gospel, keeping all of the commandments to the end of his mortal life. This is the doctrine of the Prophet Joseph Smith. "I . . . spoke to the people," he says, "showing them that to get salvation we must not only do some things, but everything which God has commanded. Men may preach and practice everything except those things which God commands us to do, and will be damned at last. We may tithe mint and rue, and all manner of herbs, and still not obey the commandments of God."fn
1 Cor. 15:39-42; Rev. 20:12-15.
Isa. 45:23; Rom. 14:10-11; Phil. 2:9-11; D. & C. 76:110; 88:104.
Millennial Star, vol. 91, p. 675; John 14:2.
Era, vol. 19, p. 428; D. & C. 63:17-18; 76:81-85.
D. & C. 76:30-49; Heb. 6:4-8.
D. & C. 76:50-70, 92-96; 84:38; 88:107.
Era, vol. 20, pp. 360-361; Joseph Fielding Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 107.
Era, vol. 19, pp. 428-429; D. & C. 76:71-80.
Era, vol. 20, pp. 360-361; D. & C. 76:81-90, 98-113.
Era, vol. 19, p. 429; D. & C. 88:32.
Church News, Feb. 20, 1932, p. 8; Rev. 20:5; D. & C. 19:4, 15-19; 29:17.
Pers. Corresp.
Matt. 6:33; D. & C. 6:7.
Matt. 7:13-14; 3 Ne. 14:13-14.
Rom. 8:14-17; D. & C. 76:50-70; 84:38; 88:107; 93:20-28; 132:19-25.
1 John 3:1-3; Gal. 4:5-7.
Church News, Feb. 27, 1932, p. 4.
D. & C. 76:53, 60; Rev. 2:7, 11, 17, 26-28; 3:4-5, 12, 21; 21:7.
Joseph Fielding Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 12.
Gen. & Hist. Mag., vol. 26, pp. 49-50; also: Church News, Jan 5, 1935, pp. 2, 6.
Conf. Rep., Apr., 1942, p. 28; Matt. 5:5; Ps. 37:11
Era, vol. 19, p. 431; D. & C. 88:17-26.
Gen. & Hist. Mag., vol. 17, pp. 149-150.
Moses 7:28-31.
Conf. Rep., Apr., 1923, p. 137.
Rel. Soc. Mag., vol. 5, pp. 680-681; Rev. 20:12; D. & C. 1:10; Alma 42:22-28.
Church News, Apr. 22, 1939, p. 8; D. & C. 88:21-33.
Era, vol. 22, p. 623.
D. & C. 76:79.
D. & C. 18:21-28; 20:37; Mosiah 5:7-14; Alma 5:38-39.
1 Cor. 2:2.
Era, vol. 22, pp. 623-624; Mark 8:38.
Church News, Feb. 12, 1938, p. 3. 2 Ne. 9:25-27; Mosiah 3:11-12, 20-22; 15:24-27; Alma 9:15-16; 29:5; 42:21; Hela. 15:14-15; Moro. 8:22; D. & C. 45:54; 76:72; Acts 17:30; Rom. 2:12.
Isa. 45:23; Rom. 14:10-11; Phil. 2:9-11; D. & C. 76:110; 88:104.
Mosiah 16:1-4.
Church News, Apr. 22, 1939, p. 7; D. & C. 76:108-112.
D. & C. 76:112.
D. & C. 131:1-4.
D. & C. 132:17.
D. & C. 132:21-25.
1 Cor. 15:35-41.
Joseph Fielding Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 332.
Next
(Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 3 vols., edited by Bruce R. McConkie [Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1954-1956], 2: 26.)
Elder Widtsoe characterized the differences in the progression of those in lower degrees as limitations placed on their capacities such that they could never endure the glory of a higher kingdom.
"Moreover, those who are assigned to the lower kingdoms, have so lived, so misused their opportunities, that they could not adapt themselves to the prevailing conditions in the higher kingdoms. Their capacities, by their own acts, have been changed to fit a lower glory. They would not be happy in a higher kingdom. They are unprepared for association with those whose lives have been in accord with God's truth. As we have made ourselves, so shall our judgment be." fn
Some of his children have already been denied the capacity for mortal life. Likewise, all who do not achieve exaltation in the celestial glory will be denied the capacity to live as do those who will obtain it. In an essay teaching that it is not possible to progress from one glory to another, Elder Widtsoe wrote:
"They who inherit the celestial glory will dwell in the presence of the Father and the Son. They are kings and priests. From that glory issues the power of God, known to us as the Priesthood of the Lord. In that glory certain conditions of joy belong which are absent in the other glories. They who have inherited the lesser glories will receive a salvation so glorious as to be beyond the understanding of man—that has been revealed to us—but, 'where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end' (D&C 76:112)." fn
Elder Widtsoe's teachings about salvation and progression in the lower degrees of glory are unusually optimistic and cause some to question whether he pictured progression to be on a single continuum, so that in time all the blessings of the highest kingdom may be obtained by those in the lower kingdoms. These teachings raise the question of overlap, or the possibility of progression between the three degrees of glory. The following statement was given in his lectures at USC, to indicate his belief that though there is progression in all the degrees of glory, it is "utterly impossible" to progress from one degree to another
(Susan Easton Black et al., Doctrines for Exaltation: The 1989 Sperry Symposium on the Doctrine and Covenants [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1989], 213.)
133. Hymns, op. cit. This in no way indicates that there is progression from one degree of glory to a higher degree, such as from the telestial kingdom to the terrestrial, etc. Though there may be progression within a given kingdom, the scriptures indicate that there is no progression from one kingdom to a higher one. Of those in the telestial kingdom, a revelation said: "And they shall be servants of the Most High; but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end."—D&C 76:112. This means that those in the telestial kingdom cannot progress either to the terrestrial or to the celestial kingdom, for Christ can dwell in the terrestrial kingdom. Of those who do not obey the Law of Eternal Marriage, another revelation says: "They . . . remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever."—Ibid., 132:17. Here again it is evident that man cannot progress from one condition in the resurrection to a higher kingdom.
(Hyrum L. Andrus, Doctrinal Commentary on the Pearl of Great Price [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1967], .)
The concept of eternal progression may imply the possibility of progressing from one kingdom to another. Doctrinal teachings, however, suggest otherwise.
First, those who do not enter celestial marriage (an ordinance that must be received either personally during mortality or vicariously in the spirit world) can never be exalted, though they may become ministering angels in the celestial kingdom (see D&C 131:1-4; 132:15-16).
Second, we are resurrected with the body suited specifically for the glory we are worthy to receive. We cannot endure a higher glory for which our body is not prepared.
Third, the Lord has decreed that heirs of the telestial kingdom can never go where God and Christ are (see D&C 76:112). Elder Melvin J. Ballard elaborated on that restriction: "Those whose lives have entitled them to Terrestrial Glory can never gain Celestial Glory. One who gains possession of the lowest degree of Telestial Glory may ultimately arise to the highest degree of that glory, but no provision has been made for promotion from one glory to another" (Three Degrees of Glory, 35).
Fourth, counting on the possibility of progressing from kingdom to kingdom may lead us to procrastinate our repentance. That would undermine the importance of this life as the time for preparing to meet God (see Alma 34:32-34).
(Richard O. Cowan, Answers to Your Questions About the Doctrine and Covenants [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1996], 93.)
34. And whoso . . . is not baptized, shall be damned] Those who reject the Principles of the gospel, including the ordinance of baptism, are damned, not in the "fire and brimstone" sense but rather in the sense that their progression is stopped, their joy is limited because they are not in the celestial kingdom- the only place where there is a "continuation of the seeds forever and ever" (see D&C 132:19-20). There are varying degrees of damnation just as there are varying degrees or meanings of salvation. In this sense, all who do not attain exaltation are damned, even though they are redeemed and inherit lesser rewards. With the exception of sons of perdition, and subject in many cases to long delays in the spirit prison to allow repentance and reform of those "who shall not be redeemed from the devil until the last resurrection," all shall ultimately enjoy a glory hereafter which "surpasses all understanding" (see D&C 76:85, 89).
(Joseph Fielding McConkie and Robert L. Millet, Doctrinal Commentary on the Book of Mormon, 4 vols. [Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1987-1992], 4: 60.)
Does Each Galaxy Have Its Own God...
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NoGreaterLove
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sbsion
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Re: Does Each Galaxy Have Its Own God...
excellent NGL.....simply said, we were, are, and will always be.enjoy it 
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gruden
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Re: Does Each Galaxy Have Its Own God...
I love a good paradox! When you find the resolution, then you've made some real progress!
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Quiet Cricket
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Re: Does Each Galaxy Have Its Own God...
There has to be a limit on progression somewhere. If there ultimately is progression from one kingdom to another, wouldn't it be possible for the sons of perdition to progress to the telestial kingdom? They kept not their first estate, therefore their progression ends there. If you do not recieve exaltation, doesn't that mean you have not kept your second estate? It seems logical that once you fail to keep an estate, that would be the barrier you create for yourself that cannot be crossed. We've already read that those who are resurrected with telestial bodies have different bodies than another kingdom. So if telestial people progress they must be resurrected again with a terrestrial body.
Also, Joseph Fielding Smith said:
"Some of the functions in the celestial body will not appear in the terrestrial body, neither in the telestial body, and the power of procreation will be removed. I take it that men and women will, in these kingdoms, be just what the so-called Christian world expects us all to be neither man nor woman, merely immortal beings having received the resurrection. (Doc of Salv 2:287-288;.) "
It looks like you will lose your gender if you enter the terrestrial or telestial kingdoms. Does that mean if you progress to the celestial over time, a gender will be reassigned? Losing your gender seems scary; I better make it to the Celestial Kingdom!!
Also, Joseph Fielding Smith said:
"Some of the functions in the celestial body will not appear in the terrestrial body, neither in the telestial body, and the power of procreation will be removed. I take it that men and women will, in these kingdoms, be just what the so-called Christian world expects us all to be neither man nor woman, merely immortal beings having received the resurrection. (Doc of Salv 2:287-288;.) "
It looks like you will lose your gender if you enter the terrestrial or telestial kingdoms. Does that mean if you progress to the celestial over time, a gender will be reassigned? Losing your gender seems scary; I better make it to the Celestial Kingdom!!
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sbsion
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Re: Does Each Galaxy Have Its Own God...
No, what he meant was you could not procreate...he told me in a personal conversation, the GOD does not progress EXCEPT in dominion only...that he knows ALL things, literally, without exception.........the dominion part is the eternal progression, we are all what we AREQuiet Cricket wrote:It looks like you will lose your gender if you enter the terrestrial or telestial kingdoms. Does that mean if you progress to the celestial over time, a gender will be reassigned? Losing your gender seems scary; I better make it to the Celestial Kingdom!!
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Quiet Cricket
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Re: Does Each Galaxy Have Its Own God...
This talk by President Faust seems to illustrate the point Bob is making. Based on what I have posted earlier, all of the "receiving salvation, or paying for your own sins" has to be completed before we are assigned kingdoms of glory. Maybe the millennium for us, and the past 2000 years since the resurrection of Christ, will be enough time for otherwise telestial people to qualify for exaltation. Plus, the only way telestial people gain a kingdom of glory is by paying for their own sins. There will be many that will not accept Christ's atonement. Yet will every tongue confess and every knee bow. I just don't see the people that don't accept being part of the Church of Christ.
James E. Faust - "Dear Are The Sheep That Have Wandered," Ensign, May 2003, 61
“The Prophet Joseph Smith declared—and he never taught more comforting doctrine—that the eternal sealings of faithful parents and the divine promises made to them for valiant service in the Cause of Truth, would save not only themselves, but likewise their posterity. Though some of the sheep may wander, the eye of the Shepherd is upon them, and sooner or later they will feel the tentacles of Divine Providence reaching out after them and drawing them back to the fold. Either in this life or the life to come, they will return. They will have to pay their debt to justice; they will suffer for their sins; and may tread a thorny path; but if it leads them at last, like the penitent Prodigal, to a loving and forgiving father’s heart and home, the painful experience will not have been in vain. Pray for your careless and disobedient children; hold on to them with your faith. Hope on, trust on, till you see the salvation of God.”
A principle in this statement that is often overlooked is that they must fully repent and “suffer for their sins” and “pay their debt to justice.” I recognize that now is the time “to prepare to meet God.” If the repentance of the wayward children does not happen in this life, is it still possible for the cords of the sealing to be strong enough for them yet to work out their repentance? In the Doctrine and Covenants we are told, “The dead who repent will be redeemed, through obedience to the ordinances of the house of God,
“And after they have paid the penalty of their transgressions, and are washed clean, shall receive a reward according to their works, for they are heirs of salvation.”
We remember that the prodigal son wasted his inheritance, and when it was all gone he came back to his father’s house. There he was welcomed back into the family, but his inheritance was spent. Mercy will not rob justice, and the sealing power of faithful parents will only claim wayward children upon the condition of their repentance and Christ’s Atonement. Repentant wayward children will enjoy salvation and all the blessings that go with it, but exaltation is much more. It must be fully earned. The question as to who will be exalted must be left to the Lord in His mercy.
There are very few whose rebellion and evil deeds are so great that they have “sinned away the power to repent.” That judgment must also be left up to the Lord. He tells us, “I, the Lord, will forgive whom I will forgive, but of you it is required to forgive all men.”
Perhaps in this life we are not given to fully understand how enduring the sealing cords of righteous parents are to their children. It may very well be that there are more helpful sources at work than we know. I believe there is a strong familial pull as the influence of beloved ancestors continues with us from the other side of the veil.
James E. Faust - "Dear Are The Sheep That Have Wandered," Ensign, May 2003, 61
“The Prophet Joseph Smith declared—and he never taught more comforting doctrine—that the eternal sealings of faithful parents and the divine promises made to them for valiant service in the Cause of Truth, would save not only themselves, but likewise their posterity. Though some of the sheep may wander, the eye of the Shepherd is upon them, and sooner or later they will feel the tentacles of Divine Providence reaching out after them and drawing them back to the fold. Either in this life or the life to come, they will return. They will have to pay their debt to justice; they will suffer for their sins; and may tread a thorny path; but if it leads them at last, like the penitent Prodigal, to a loving and forgiving father’s heart and home, the painful experience will not have been in vain. Pray for your careless and disobedient children; hold on to them with your faith. Hope on, trust on, till you see the salvation of God.”
A principle in this statement that is often overlooked is that they must fully repent and “suffer for their sins” and “pay their debt to justice.” I recognize that now is the time “to prepare to meet God.” If the repentance of the wayward children does not happen in this life, is it still possible for the cords of the sealing to be strong enough for them yet to work out their repentance? In the Doctrine and Covenants we are told, “The dead who repent will be redeemed, through obedience to the ordinances of the house of God,
“And after they have paid the penalty of their transgressions, and are washed clean, shall receive a reward according to their works, for they are heirs of salvation.”
We remember that the prodigal son wasted his inheritance, and when it was all gone he came back to his father’s house. There he was welcomed back into the family, but his inheritance was spent. Mercy will not rob justice, and the sealing power of faithful parents will only claim wayward children upon the condition of their repentance and Christ’s Atonement. Repentant wayward children will enjoy salvation and all the blessings that go with it, but exaltation is much more. It must be fully earned. The question as to who will be exalted must be left to the Lord in His mercy.
There are very few whose rebellion and evil deeds are so great that they have “sinned away the power to repent.” That judgment must also be left up to the Lord. He tells us, “I, the Lord, will forgive whom I will forgive, but of you it is required to forgive all men.”
Perhaps in this life we are not given to fully understand how enduring the sealing cords of righteous parents are to their children. It may very well be that there are more helpful sources at work than we know. I believe there is a strong familial pull as the influence of beloved ancestors continues with us from the other side of the veil.
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Quiet Cricket
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Re: Does Each Galaxy Have Its Own God...
Are you being sarcastic or did you actually talk to President Smith about this?sbsion wrote:No, what he meant was you could not procreate...he told me in a personal conversation
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bobhenstra
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Re: Does Each Galaxy Have Its Own God...
Again, I have no arguments with all the quotes so generously supplied above, especially those by Quiet Cricket and NGL, they are true "if" understood correctly. I do not agree with the "common" interpretation of those statements, Why? Because those common interpretations, and there are several, do not agree with the Lords truth stated through his prophets about Salvation, nor the Prophet Joseph Smith's definition of Salvation. I'll repeat a small few of those here; (There are well over a thousand)
The Prophet Joseph; "Salvation consists in the glory, authority, majesty, power and dominion which Jehovah possesses and in no thing else; and no being can possess it but himself (Jehovah) or one like him."
I speak of the master teacher, even Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Savior and Redeemer of all mankind.
(Elder Thomas S. Monson, Conference Report, April 1970, Afternoon Meeting 99.)
that we do acknowledge Jesus Christ as the Savior and Redeemer of the world,
(President Heber J. Grant, Conference Report, October 1923, Closing Session 160.)
That Jesus, the Son of the Father, is the Christ, and the Savior and Redeemer of the world.
(James E. Faust and James P. Bell, In the Strength of the Lord: The Life and Teachings of James E. Faust [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1999], 305.)
I bear witness that Jesus is the Christ, the Savior and Redeemer of the world, the very Son of God.
(Ezra Taft Benson, God, Family, Country: Our Three Great Loyalties [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1974], 1 .)
If he was the firstborn and obedient to the laws of his Father, did he not inherit the position by right to be the representative of God, the Savior and Redeemer of the world? And was it not his peculiar right and privilege as the firstborn, the legitimate heir of God, the Eternal Father, to step forth, accomplish, and carry out the designs of his Heavenly Father pertaining to the redemption, salvation, and exaltation of man?
(John Taylor, The Gospel Kingdom: Selections from the Writings and Discourses of John Taylor, selected, arranged, and edited, with an introduction by G. Homer Durham [Salt Lake City: Improvement Era, 1941], 115.)
The teachings and life of the Master have never before seemed to me more beautiful, more necessary, and more applicable to human happiness. Never have I believed more firmly in the perfection of humanity as the final result of man's placement here on earth. With my whole soul I accept Jesus Christ as the personification of human perfection—as God made manifest in the flesh, as the Savior and Redeemer of mankind.—CR, April 1932, p. 62 (David O. McKay, Gospel Ideals: Selections from the Discourses of David O. McKay [Salt Lake City: Improvement Era, 1953], 254.)
All interpretations of the Cricket and NGL supplied quotes must agree with the statements by the Lord and his Prophet Joseph Smith, if the interpretations do not agree, then the statements "Must" be studied and prayed about until they do. We never cast out the evidences, these words of the Lord through his Prophets, simply because we do not agree with them. We are unwise to hold closely to our bosom only those evidences we agree with. We are required to study and search until we can reconcile all the evidences with each other.
When we have accomplished that task, with the aid of the Spirit, then is when we come to a full understanding.
Have you heard that "Every knee shall bend, every tongue confess that Jesus is the Christ?"
After reading my salvation thesis, I often have scripturally uneducated members comment to me saying things like; OK, yes more people will be exalted then will not! But there are those who will not be exalted, saved yes, but not exalted!
My answer is, not true! The prophets have told us salvation, eternal life is exaltation, synonyms, all three words mean the same thing. Since the beginning of the True Church Joseph Smith taught it that way. The atonement of Jesus Christ has paid the price of the sins of all mankind. The Lord himself has said; “I am the savior and redeemer of “all” mankind”.
There are three degrees of glory in the Celestial Kingdom. In the temple we are "moved" by commandment through the kingdoms not by our own merit, but by the merits and commandments of Christ. As has been said many times, we cannot earn our own exaltation! Only by repenting, being baptized, receiving the Holy Ghost, and enduring to the end can we prepare ourselves to receive the gift. That's it, that's "all we can do. our own salvation depends upon the gift!" Any and all good things we accomplish in mortality is rewarded in mortality. Our Father in Heaven through his only begotten son in the flesh, our Lord Jesus Christ, our justifier, sanctifier, our redeemer and Savior do the rest. Salvation is a gift, already paid for by he who gives the gift, Jesus Christ.
Does this mean we have no need of accomplishing "good works?" Not in the least. Good works are a necessary component of repentance, we are forgiven of sins as we do good works, our rewards are immediately received. Hugh Nibley was fond of saying this about salvation, "The lunch is free, but work we must!" To help us stay clean from sin.
(18) Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. (Isaiah 1:18.)
Though their sins be as scarlet, they may become white as the driven snow (see Isa. 1:18), and the Lord has promised he would remember their sins no more (see D&C 58:42).
(Repentance Page 64.)
Our Lord said: "I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins" (Isaiah 43:25).
Boyd K. Packer, The formula is stated in forty words: "Behold, he who has repented of his sins, the same is forgiven, and I, the Lord, remember them no more. By this ye may know if a man repenteth of his sins-behold, he will confess them and forsake them." (D&C 58:42-43.) I know of no more beautiful words in all of revelation than these. "The same is forgiven, and I, the Lord, remember them no more." (Things of the Soul, page115.)
Neil A Maxwell, Some are so proud they never learn of obedience and spiritual submissiveness. They will have very arthritic knees on the day when every knee shall bend. There will be no gallery then to play to; all will be participants! (Ensign, May 1987, p. 70.)
President Kimball, May I repeat, the time will come when there will be a surrender of every person who has ever lived on this earth, who is now living, or who ever will live on this earth; and it will be an unforced surrender, an unconditional surrender. When will it be for you? Today? In twenty years? Two hundred years? Two thousand or a million? When? Again, to you, --- I say, it is not if you will capitulate to the great truth; it is when, for I know that you cannot indefinitely resist the power and pressure of truth. Why not now? Much time has been lost. The years ahead can be far more glorious for you than any years in the past. (Spencer W. Kimball. Sept Ensign, 1978. Messages of the First Presidency)
Boyd K. Packer, Nowhere is the generosity and kindness and mercy of God more manifest than in repentance. Do you understand the consummate cleansing power of the atonement made by the Son of God, our Savior, our Redeemer, who said, "I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent"? (D&C 19:16.) I know of no sin connected with transgression of the moral law which cannot be forgiven, assuming, of course, full and complete repentance. I do not exempt abortion.. (Things of the Soul)
Now, lets read this from the 76th section about those in the Telestial Kingdom;
(82)These are they who received not the gospel of Christ, neither the testimony of Jesus.
(83) These are they who deny not the Holy Spirit.
(84) These are they who are thrust down to hell.
(85) These are they who shall not be redeemed from the devil until the last resurrection, until the Lord, even Christ the Lamb, shall have finished his work.
(86)These are they who receive not of his fulness in the eternal world, but of the Holy Spirit through the ministration of the terrestrial;
(87) And the terrestrial through the ministration of the celestial.
(88) And also the telestial receive it of the administering of angels who are appointed to minister for them, or who are appointed to be ministering spirits for them; for they shall be heirs of salvation (not yet saved).
(89) And thus we saw, in the heavenly vision, the glory of the telestial, which surpasses all understanding;
(90) And no man knows it except him to whom God has revealed it. (Doctrine and Covenants 76:82-90.)
The vast majority of the Telestial beings mentioned have NOT YET repented and received the Gospel of Christ, they are either still in mortality or have died and are in Spirit Prison. This earth in its present telestial condition and it’s Spirit Prison component is the Telestial Kingdom spoken of in the above verses. Only a very few in Spirit Prison have denied the Holy Ghost (as the sons of perdition did).
Read the above verses again, does it sound to you that these people, as described in the Telestial kingdom above have repented, their sins forgotten? Are they as white as wool, white as the driven snow? Does it sound like the "consummate cleansing power" of our Saviors atonement has yet taken effect?
When the inhabitants of Spirit Prison, and this according to their agency, eventually repent, and eventually they will also accept baptism, by proxy (see above)! They are taught by Terrestrial brothers and sisters inhabiting Paradise, they are missionaries. As our Spirit Prison brothers and sisters continue to repent, learn and progress in knowledge, then by commandment, not by their own merit, they will be "introduced" into the Terrestrial Kingdom or glory, where they receive the Ordnances of the Temple. And after they have progressed in knowledge they will turn around to help others who are still in the spirit prison component of this earth, at the moment, still the Telestial Kingdom. The penitent then become the missionaries.
The Telestial Kingdom or glory the 76th section is talking about here is also called spirit prison! Our move into the next kingdom is done by commandment, by His grace, not by our own merit and then, only when our Lord decides we are ready (see Temple).
Again, our Lord;
(58) Therefore I give unto you a commandment, to teach these things freely unto your children, saying,
(59)That by reason of transgression cometh the fall, which fall bringeth death, and inasmuch as ye were born into the world by water, and blood, and the spirit, which I have made, and so became of dust a living soul, even so ye must be born again into the kingdom of heaven, of water, and of the Spirit, and be cleansed by blood, even the blood of mine Only Begotten; that ye might be sanctified from all sin, and enjoy the words of eternal life in this world, and eternal life in the world to come, even (same as) immortal glory;
(60) For by the water ye keep the commandment; by the Spirit ye are justified, and by the blood ye are sanctified; (Moses 6:58-60.)
(57) I beheld that the faithful elders of this dispensation, when they depart from mortal life, continue their labors in the preaching of the gospel of repentance and redemption, through the sacrifice of the Only Begotten Son of God, among those who are in darkness and under the bondage of sin in the great world of the spirits of the dead (Spirit prison)
(58) The dead who repent will be redeemed, through obedience to the ordinances of the house of God,
(59) And after they have paid the penalty of their transgressions, and are washed clean, shall receive a reward according to their works, for they are heirs of salvation ( still, not yet saved) (Doctrine and Covenants 138:57-59.)
(22) Nevertheless—whosoever putteth his trust in him the same shall be lifted up (saved) at the last day. Yea, and thus it was with this people. (Mosiah 23: 22)
Elder Jeffrey R. Holland: Mercy, with its sister virtue forgiveness, is at the very heart of the Atonement of Jesus Christ and the eternal plan of salvation. (Ensign, Nov. 1997)
Receiving the Holy Ghost, the Spirit, and how he cleanses us from our sins!
Elder McConkie; The relationship between the bearing of testimony by the power of the Holy Ghost and the forgiveness of sins illustrates a glorious gospel truth. It is that whenever faithful saints gain the companionship of the Holy Spirit, they are clean and pure before the Lord, for the Spirit will not dwell in an unclean tabernacle. Hence, they thereby receive a remission of those sins committed after baptism.
This same eternal verity is illustrated in the ordinance of administering to the sick. A faithful saint who is anointed with oil has the promise that "the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him." (James 5:14-15.) The reasoning of the ancient apostle James, in this instance, is that since the miracle of healing comes by the power of the Holy Ghost, the sick person is healed not only physically but spiritually, for the Spirit who comes to heal will not dwell in a spiritually unclean tabernacle.
The prophet Nephi; (17) Wherefore, do the things which I have told you I have seen that your Lord and your Redeemer should do; for, for this cause have they been shown unto me, that ye might know the gate by which ye should enter. For the gate by which ye should enter is repentance and baptism by water; and then cometh a remission of your sins by fire and by the Holy Ghost. (2 Nephi 31:17.)
Our Lord; (16) And it shall come to pass, that whoso repenteth and is baptized in my name shall be filled; and if he endureth to the end, behold, him will I hold guiltless before my Father at that day when I shall stand to judge the world.
(17)And he that endureth not unto the end, the same is he that is also hewn down and cast into the fire, from whence they can no more return, because of the justice of the Father.
(18)And this is the word which he hath given unto the children of men. And for this cause he fulfilleth the words which he hath given, and he lieth not, but fulfilleth all his words.
(19) And no unclean thing can enter into his kingdom; therefore nothing entereth into his rest save it be those who have washed their garments in my blood, because of their faith, and the repentance of all their sins, and their faithfulness unto the end.
(20) Now this is the commandment: Repent, all ye ends of the earth, and come unto me and be baptized in my name, that ye may be sanctified by the reception of the Holy Ghost, that ye may stand spotless before me at the last day. (3 Nephi 27:16-20.)
Alma; (54)
Yea, will ye persist in supposing that ye are better one than another; yea, will ye persist in the persecution of your brethren, who humble themselves and do walk after the holy order of God, wherewith they have been brought into this church, having been sanctified by the Holy Spirit, and they do bring forth works which are meet for repentance—(Alma 5:54.)
Alma (12) Now they, after being sanctified by the Holy Ghost, having their garments made white, being pure and spotless before God, could not look upon sin save it were with abhorrence; and there were many, exceedingly great many, who were made pure and entered into the rest of the Lord their God. (Alma 13:12.)
Will we persist in declaring ourselves better than those not yet repentant?
Joseph Smith; You might as well baptize a bag of sand as a man, if not done in view of the remission of sins and getting of the Holy Ghost. Baptism by water is but half a baptism, and is good for nothing without the other half—that is, the baptism of the Holy Ghost. (Joseph Smith, History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 7 Vols. 5:499)
(Joseph Smith, Encyclopedia of Joseph Smith's Teachings)
Henry B. Erying; If you have felt the influence of the Holy Ghost during this day, or even this evening, you may take it as evidence that the Atonement is working in your life. For that reason and many others, you would do well to put yourself in places and in tasks that invite the promptings of the Holy Ghost. Feeling the influence of the Holy Ghost works both ways: the Holy Ghost only dwells in a clean temple, and the reception of the Holy Ghost cleanses us through the Atonement of Jesus Christ. (BYU Speeches 2006 by Henry B. Eyring - 10 September 2006)
The Prophet Joseph Smith taught "God does not look on sin with allowance, but when men have sinned, there must be allowance made for them." (History of the Church 5:24.) That is another way of saying God loves the sinner but condemns the sin. (Ezra Taft Benson, Come unto Christ, Page 95.)
President J. Reuben Clark, Jr. You know, I believe that the Lord will help us. I believe if we go to him, he will give us wisdom, if we are living righteously. I believe he will answer our prayers. I believe that our Heavenly Father wants to save every one of his children. I do not think he intends to shut any of us off because of some slight transgression, some slight failure to observe some rule or regulation. There are the great elementals that we must observe, but he is not going to be captious about the lesser things. (Conference Report, October 1953, General Priesthood Meeting 84.)
President J. Reuben Clark, Jr.
I believe that his juridical concept of his dealings with his children could be expressed in this way: I believe that in his justice and mercy he will give us the maximum reward for our acts, give us all that he can give, and in the reverse, I believe that he will impose upon us the minimum penalty which it is possible for him to impose.
(., Conference Report, October 1953, General Priesthood Meeting 84.)
Joseph Smith;
Our Heavenly Father is more liberal in his views, and boundless in his mercies and blessings, than we are ready to believe or receive;
(Joseph Smith, Discourses of the Prophet Joseph Smith, page 71.)
Elder Bruce R. McConkie declared
"[You] don't need to get a complex,", "or get a feeling that you have to be perfect to be saved. You don't. . . . What you have to do is get on the straight and narrow path—thus charting a course leading to eternal life—and then, being on that path, pass out of this life in full fellowship. I'm not saying that you don't have to keep the commandments. I'm saying you don't have to be perfect to be saved. If you did, no one would be saved. . . . If you're on that path and pressing forward, and you die, you'll never get off the path. There is no such thing as falling off the straight and narrow path in the life to come, and the reason is that this life is the time that is given to men to prepare for eternity. Now is the time and the day of your salvation, so if you're working zealously in this life—though you haven't fully overcome the world and you haven't done all you hoped you might do—you're still going to be saved. You don't have to do what Jacob said, 'Go beyond the mark.' You don't have to live a life that's truer than true. You don't have to have an excessive zeal that becomes fanatical and becomes unbalancing. What you have to do is stay in the mainstream of the Church and live as upright and decent people live in the Church. . . . If you're on that path when death comes—because this is the time and the day appointed, this is the probationary estate—you'll never fall off from it, and, for all practical purposes, your calling and election is made sure" ("The Probationary Test of Mortality," pp. 12-13).
(Robert L. Millet, Within Reach, 99.)
Joseph Smith (1805–44) First President of the Church
"The Prophet Joseph Smith declared—and he never taught a more comforting doctrine—that the eternal sealings of faithful parents and the divine promises made to them for valiant service in the Cause of Truth, would save not only themselves, but likewise their posterity. Though some of the sheep may wander, the eye of the Shepherd is upon them, and sooner or later they will feel the tentacles of Divine Providence reaching out after them and drawing them back to the fold. Either in this life or the life to come, they will return. They will have to pay their debt to justice; they will suffer for their sins; and may tread a thorny path; but if it leads them at last, like the penitent Prodigal, to a loving and forgiving father's heart and home, the painful experience will not have been in vain. Pray for your careless and disobedient children; hold on to them with your faith. Hope on, trust on, till you see the salvation of God" (Orson F. Whitney, in Conference Report, Apr. 1929, 110).
Brigham Young (1801–77) Second President of the Church
"Let the father and mother, who are members of this Church and Kingdom, take a righteous course, and strive with all their might never to do a wrong, but to do good all their lives; if they have one child or one hundred children, if they conduct themselves towards them as they should, binding them to the Lord by their faith and prayers, I care not where those children go, they are bound up to their parents by an everlasting tie, and no power of earth or hell can separate them from their parents in eternity; they will return again to the fountain from whence they sprang" (quoted in Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, comp. Bruce R. McConkie, 3 vols. [1954–56], 2:90–91).
Lorenzo Snow (1814–1901) Fifth President of the Church
"If you succeed in passing through these trials and afflictions and receive a resurrection, you will, by the power of the Priesthood, work and labor, as the Son of God has, until you get all your sons and daughters in the path of exaltation and glory. This is just as sure as that the sun rose this morning over yonder mountains. Therefore, mourn not because all your sons and daughters do not follow in the path that you have marked out to them, or give heed to your counsels. Inasmuch as we succeed in securing eternal glory, and stand as saviors, and as kings and priests to our God, we will save our posterity" (in Collected Discourses, comp. Brian H. Stuy, 5 vols. [1987–92], 3:364).
Boyd K. Packer
"The measure of our success as parents … will not rest solely on how our children turn out. That judgment would be just only if we could raise our families in a perfectly moral environment, and that now is not possible.
"It is not uncommon for responsible parents to lose one of their children, for a time, to influences over which they have no control. They agonize over rebellious sons or daughters. They are puzzled over why they are so helpless when they have tried so hard to do what they should.
"It is my conviction that those wicked influences one day will be overruled. …
"We cannot overemphasize the value of temple marriage, the binding ties of the sealing ordinance, and the standards of worthiness required of them. When parents keep the covenants they have made at the altar of the temple, their children will be forever bound to them" ("Our Moral Environment," Ensign, May 1992, 68).
Is not every child of God sealed to Him, BIC?
Aaron, Book of Mormon Prophet expounding the promises of Christ to a Kingand people guilty of many murders;
13 And Aaron did expound unto him the scriptures from the creation of Adam, laying the fall of man before him, and their carnal state and also the plan of redemption, which was prepared from the foundation of the world, through Christ, for all whosoever would believe on his name.
14 And since man had fallen he could not merit anything of himself; but the sufferings and death of Christ atone for their sins, through faith and repentance, and so forth; and that he breaketh the bands of death, that the grave shall have no victory, and that the sting of death should be swallowed up in the hopes of glory; and Aaron did expound all these things unto the king.
15 And it came to pass that after Aaron had expounded these things unto him, the king said: of What shall I do that I may have this eternal life which thou hast spoken? Yea, what shall I do that I may be born of God, having this wicked spirit rooted out of my breast, and receive his Spirit, that I may be filled with joy, that I may not be cast off at the last day? Behold, said he, I will give up all that I possess, yea, I will forsake my kingdom, that I may receive this great joy.
16 But Aaron said unto him: If thou desirest this thing, if thou wilt bow down before God, yea, if thou wilt repent of all thy sins, and will bow down before God, and call on his name in faith, believing that ye shall receive, then shalt thou receive the hope which thou desirest. (Alma 22:13-16.)
Study, seek the Spirit, reconcile the Prophets. I have many more scriptural aids for this purpose, just ask!
Bob
The Prophet Joseph; "Salvation consists in the glory, authority, majesty, power and dominion which Jehovah possesses and in no thing else; and no being can possess it but himself (Jehovah) or one like him."
I speak of the master teacher, even Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Savior and Redeemer of all mankind.
(Elder Thomas S. Monson, Conference Report, April 1970, Afternoon Meeting 99.)
that we do acknowledge Jesus Christ as the Savior and Redeemer of the world,
(President Heber J. Grant, Conference Report, October 1923, Closing Session 160.)
That Jesus, the Son of the Father, is the Christ, and the Savior and Redeemer of the world.
(James E. Faust and James P. Bell, In the Strength of the Lord: The Life and Teachings of James E. Faust [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1999], 305.)
I bear witness that Jesus is the Christ, the Savior and Redeemer of the world, the very Son of God.
(Ezra Taft Benson, God, Family, Country: Our Three Great Loyalties [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1974], 1 .)
If he was the firstborn and obedient to the laws of his Father, did he not inherit the position by right to be the representative of God, the Savior and Redeemer of the world? And was it not his peculiar right and privilege as the firstborn, the legitimate heir of God, the Eternal Father, to step forth, accomplish, and carry out the designs of his Heavenly Father pertaining to the redemption, salvation, and exaltation of man?
(John Taylor, The Gospel Kingdom: Selections from the Writings and Discourses of John Taylor, selected, arranged, and edited, with an introduction by G. Homer Durham [Salt Lake City: Improvement Era, 1941], 115.)
The teachings and life of the Master have never before seemed to me more beautiful, more necessary, and more applicable to human happiness. Never have I believed more firmly in the perfection of humanity as the final result of man's placement here on earth. With my whole soul I accept Jesus Christ as the personification of human perfection—as God made manifest in the flesh, as the Savior and Redeemer of mankind.—CR, April 1932, p. 62 (David O. McKay, Gospel Ideals: Selections from the Discourses of David O. McKay [Salt Lake City: Improvement Era, 1953], 254.)
All interpretations of the Cricket and NGL supplied quotes must agree with the statements by the Lord and his Prophet Joseph Smith, if the interpretations do not agree, then the statements "Must" be studied and prayed about until they do. We never cast out the evidences, these words of the Lord through his Prophets, simply because we do not agree with them. We are unwise to hold closely to our bosom only those evidences we agree with. We are required to study and search until we can reconcile all the evidences with each other.
When we have accomplished that task, with the aid of the Spirit, then is when we come to a full understanding.
Have you heard that "Every knee shall bend, every tongue confess that Jesus is the Christ?"
After reading my salvation thesis, I often have scripturally uneducated members comment to me saying things like; OK, yes more people will be exalted then will not! But there are those who will not be exalted, saved yes, but not exalted!
My answer is, not true! The prophets have told us salvation, eternal life is exaltation, synonyms, all three words mean the same thing. Since the beginning of the True Church Joseph Smith taught it that way. The atonement of Jesus Christ has paid the price of the sins of all mankind. The Lord himself has said; “I am the savior and redeemer of “all” mankind”.
There are three degrees of glory in the Celestial Kingdom. In the temple we are "moved" by commandment through the kingdoms not by our own merit, but by the merits and commandments of Christ. As has been said many times, we cannot earn our own exaltation! Only by repenting, being baptized, receiving the Holy Ghost, and enduring to the end can we prepare ourselves to receive the gift. That's it, that's "all we can do. our own salvation depends upon the gift!" Any and all good things we accomplish in mortality is rewarded in mortality. Our Father in Heaven through his only begotten son in the flesh, our Lord Jesus Christ, our justifier, sanctifier, our redeemer and Savior do the rest. Salvation is a gift, already paid for by he who gives the gift, Jesus Christ.
Does this mean we have no need of accomplishing "good works?" Not in the least. Good works are a necessary component of repentance, we are forgiven of sins as we do good works, our rewards are immediately received. Hugh Nibley was fond of saying this about salvation, "The lunch is free, but work we must!" To help us stay clean from sin.
(18) Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. (Isaiah 1:18.)
Though their sins be as scarlet, they may become white as the driven snow (see Isa. 1:18), and the Lord has promised he would remember their sins no more (see D&C 58:42).
(Repentance Page 64.)
Our Lord said: "I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins" (Isaiah 43:25).
Boyd K. Packer, The formula is stated in forty words: "Behold, he who has repented of his sins, the same is forgiven, and I, the Lord, remember them no more. By this ye may know if a man repenteth of his sins-behold, he will confess them and forsake them." (D&C 58:42-43.) I know of no more beautiful words in all of revelation than these. "The same is forgiven, and I, the Lord, remember them no more." (Things of the Soul, page115.)
Neil A Maxwell, Some are so proud they never learn of obedience and spiritual submissiveness. They will have very arthritic knees on the day when every knee shall bend. There will be no gallery then to play to; all will be participants! (Ensign, May 1987, p. 70.)
President Kimball, May I repeat, the time will come when there will be a surrender of every person who has ever lived on this earth, who is now living, or who ever will live on this earth; and it will be an unforced surrender, an unconditional surrender. When will it be for you? Today? In twenty years? Two hundred years? Two thousand or a million? When? Again, to you, --- I say, it is not if you will capitulate to the great truth; it is when, for I know that you cannot indefinitely resist the power and pressure of truth. Why not now? Much time has been lost. The years ahead can be far more glorious for you than any years in the past. (Spencer W. Kimball. Sept Ensign, 1978. Messages of the First Presidency)
Boyd K. Packer, Nowhere is the generosity and kindness and mercy of God more manifest than in repentance. Do you understand the consummate cleansing power of the atonement made by the Son of God, our Savior, our Redeemer, who said, "I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent"? (D&C 19:16.) I know of no sin connected with transgression of the moral law which cannot be forgiven, assuming, of course, full and complete repentance. I do not exempt abortion.. (Things of the Soul)
Now, lets read this from the 76th section about those in the Telestial Kingdom;
(82)These are they who received not the gospel of Christ, neither the testimony of Jesus.
(83) These are they who deny not the Holy Spirit.
(84) These are they who are thrust down to hell.
(85) These are they who shall not be redeemed from the devil until the last resurrection, until the Lord, even Christ the Lamb, shall have finished his work.
(86)These are they who receive not of his fulness in the eternal world, but of the Holy Spirit through the ministration of the terrestrial;
(87) And the terrestrial through the ministration of the celestial.
(88) And also the telestial receive it of the administering of angels who are appointed to minister for them, or who are appointed to be ministering spirits for them; for they shall be heirs of salvation (not yet saved).
(89) And thus we saw, in the heavenly vision, the glory of the telestial, which surpasses all understanding;
(90) And no man knows it except him to whom God has revealed it. (Doctrine and Covenants 76:82-90.)
The vast majority of the Telestial beings mentioned have NOT YET repented and received the Gospel of Christ, they are either still in mortality or have died and are in Spirit Prison. This earth in its present telestial condition and it’s Spirit Prison component is the Telestial Kingdom spoken of in the above verses. Only a very few in Spirit Prison have denied the Holy Ghost (as the sons of perdition did).
Read the above verses again, does it sound to you that these people, as described in the Telestial kingdom above have repented, their sins forgotten? Are they as white as wool, white as the driven snow? Does it sound like the "consummate cleansing power" of our Saviors atonement has yet taken effect?
When the inhabitants of Spirit Prison, and this according to their agency, eventually repent, and eventually they will also accept baptism, by proxy (see above)! They are taught by Terrestrial brothers and sisters inhabiting Paradise, they are missionaries. As our Spirit Prison brothers and sisters continue to repent, learn and progress in knowledge, then by commandment, not by their own merit, they will be "introduced" into the Terrestrial Kingdom or glory, where they receive the Ordnances of the Temple. And after they have progressed in knowledge they will turn around to help others who are still in the spirit prison component of this earth, at the moment, still the Telestial Kingdom. The penitent then become the missionaries.
The Telestial Kingdom or glory the 76th section is talking about here is also called spirit prison! Our move into the next kingdom is done by commandment, by His grace, not by our own merit and then, only when our Lord decides we are ready (see Temple).
Again, our Lord;
(58) Therefore I give unto you a commandment, to teach these things freely unto your children, saying,
(59)That by reason of transgression cometh the fall, which fall bringeth death, and inasmuch as ye were born into the world by water, and blood, and the spirit, which I have made, and so became of dust a living soul, even so ye must be born again into the kingdom of heaven, of water, and of the Spirit, and be cleansed by blood, even the blood of mine Only Begotten; that ye might be sanctified from all sin, and enjoy the words of eternal life in this world, and eternal life in the world to come, even (same as) immortal glory;
(60) For by the water ye keep the commandment; by the Spirit ye are justified, and by the blood ye are sanctified; (Moses 6:58-60.)
(57) I beheld that the faithful elders of this dispensation, when they depart from mortal life, continue their labors in the preaching of the gospel of repentance and redemption, through the sacrifice of the Only Begotten Son of God, among those who are in darkness and under the bondage of sin in the great world of the spirits of the dead (Spirit prison)
(58) The dead who repent will be redeemed, through obedience to the ordinances of the house of God,
(59) And after they have paid the penalty of their transgressions, and are washed clean, shall receive a reward according to their works, for they are heirs of salvation ( still, not yet saved) (Doctrine and Covenants 138:57-59.)
(22) Nevertheless—whosoever putteth his trust in him the same shall be lifted up (saved) at the last day. Yea, and thus it was with this people. (Mosiah 23: 22)
Elder Jeffrey R. Holland: Mercy, with its sister virtue forgiveness, is at the very heart of the Atonement of Jesus Christ and the eternal plan of salvation. (Ensign, Nov. 1997)
Receiving the Holy Ghost, the Spirit, and how he cleanses us from our sins!
Elder McConkie; The relationship between the bearing of testimony by the power of the Holy Ghost and the forgiveness of sins illustrates a glorious gospel truth. It is that whenever faithful saints gain the companionship of the Holy Spirit, they are clean and pure before the Lord, for the Spirit will not dwell in an unclean tabernacle. Hence, they thereby receive a remission of those sins committed after baptism.
This same eternal verity is illustrated in the ordinance of administering to the sick. A faithful saint who is anointed with oil has the promise that "the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him." (James 5:14-15.) The reasoning of the ancient apostle James, in this instance, is that since the miracle of healing comes by the power of the Holy Ghost, the sick person is healed not only physically but spiritually, for the Spirit who comes to heal will not dwell in a spiritually unclean tabernacle.
The prophet Nephi; (17) Wherefore, do the things which I have told you I have seen that your Lord and your Redeemer should do; for, for this cause have they been shown unto me, that ye might know the gate by which ye should enter. For the gate by which ye should enter is repentance and baptism by water; and then cometh a remission of your sins by fire and by the Holy Ghost. (2 Nephi 31:17.)
Our Lord; (16) And it shall come to pass, that whoso repenteth and is baptized in my name shall be filled; and if he endureth to the end, behold, him will I hold guiltless before my Father at that day when I shall stand to judge the world.
(17)And he that endureth not unto the end, the same is he that is also hewn down and cast into the fire, from whence they can no more return, because of the justice of the Father.
(18)And this is the word which he hath given unto the children of men. And for this cause he fulfilleth the words which he hath given, and he lieth not, but fulfilleth all his words.
(19) And no unclean thing can enter into his kingdom; therefore nothing entereth into his rest save it be those who have washed their garments in my blood, because of their faith, and the repentance of all their sins, and their faithfulness unto the end.
(20) Now this is the commandment: Repent, all ye ends of the earth, and come unto me and be baptized in my name, that ye may be sanctified by the reception of the Holy Ghost, that ye may stand spotless before me at the last day. (3 Nephi 27:16-20.)
Alma; (54)
Yea, will ye persist in supposing that ye are better one than another; yea, will ye persist in the persecution of your brethren, who humble themselves and do walk after the holy order of God, wherewith they have been brought into this church, having been sanctified by the Holy Spirit, and they do bring forth works which are meet for repentance—(Alma 5:54.)
Alma (12) Now they, after being sanctified by the Holy Ghost, having their garments made white, being pure and spotless before God, could not look upon sin save it were with abhorrence; and there were many, exceedingly great many, who were made pure and entered into the rest of the Lord their God. (Alma 13:12.)
Will we persist in declaring ourselves better than those not yet repentant?
Joseph Smith; You might as well baptize a bag of sand as a man, if not done in view of the remission of sins and getting of the Holy Ghost. Baptism by water is but half a baptism, and is good for nothing without the other half—that is, the baptism of the Holy Ghost. (Joseph Smith, History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 7 Vols. 5:499)
(Joseph Smith, Encyclopedia of Joseph Smith's Teachings)
Henry B. Erying; If you have felt the influence of the Holy Ghost during this day, or even this evening, you may take it as evidence that the Atonement is working in your life. For that reason and many others, you would do well to put yourself in places and in tasks that invite the promptings of the Holy Ghost. Feeling the influence of the Holy Ghost works both ways: the Holy Ghost only dwells in a clean temple, and the reception of the Holy Ghost cleanses us through the Atonement of Jesus Christ. (BYU Speeches 2006 by Henry B. Eyring - 10 September 2006)
The Prophet Joseph Smith taught "God does not look on sin with allowance, but when men have sinned, there must be allowance made for them." (History of the Church 5:24.) That is another way of saying God loves the sinner but condemns the sin. (Ezra Taft Benson, Come unto Christ, Page 95.)
President J. Reuben Clark, Jr. You know, I believe that the Lord will help us. I believe if we go to him, he will give us wisdom, if we are living righteously. I believe he will answer our prayers. I believe that our Heavenly Father wants to save every one of his children. I do not think he intends to shut any of us off because of some slight transgression, some slight failure to observe some rule or regulation. There are the great elementals that we must observe, but he is not going to be captious about the lesser things. (Conference Report, October 1953, General Priesthood Meeting 84.)
President J. Reuben Clark, Jr.
I believe that his juridical concept of his dealings with his children could be expressed in this way: I believe that in his justice and mercy he will give us the maximum reward for our acts, give us all that he can give, and in the reverse, I believe that he will impose upon us the minimum penalty which it is possible for him to impose.
(., Conference Report, October 1953, General Priesthood Meeting 84.)
Joseph Smith;
Our Heavenly Father is more liberal in his views, and boundless in his mercies and blessings, than we are ready to believe or receive;
(Joseph Smith, Discourses of the Prophet Joseph Smith, page 71.)
Elder Bruce R. McConkie declared
"[You] don't need to get a complex,", "or get a feeling that you have to be perfect to be saved. You don't. . . . What you have to do is get on the straight and narrow path—thus charting a course leading to eternal life—and then, being on that path, pass out of this life in full fellowship. I'm not saying that you don't have to keep the commandments. I'm saying you don't have to be perfect to be saved. If you did, no one would be saved. . . . If you're on that path and pressing forward, and you die, you'll never get off the path. There is no such thing as falling off the straight and narrow path in the life to come, and the reason is that this life is the time that is given to men to prepare for eternity. Now is the time and the day of your salvation, so if you're working zealously in this life—though you haven't fully overcome the world and you haven't done all you hoped you might do—you're still going to be saved. You don't have to do what Jacob said, 'Go beyond the mark.' You don't have to live a life that's truer than true. You don't have to have an excessive zeal that becomes fanatical and becomes unbalancing. What you have to do is stay in the mainstream of the Church and live as upright and decent people live in the Church. . . . If you're on that path when death comes—because this is the time and the day appointed, this is the probationary estate—you'll never fall off from it, and, for all practical purposes, your calling and election is made sure" ("The Probationary Test of Mortality," pp. 12-13).
(Robert L. Millet, Within Reach, 99.)
Joseph Smith (1805–44) First President of the Church
"The Prophet Joseph Smith declared—and he never taught a more comforting doctrine—that the eternal sealings of faithful parents and the divine promises made to them for valiant service in the Cause of Truth, would save not only themselves, but likewise their posterity. Though some of the sheep may wander, the eye of the Shepherd is upon them, and sooner or later they will feel the tentacles of Divine Providence reaching out after them and drawing them back to the fold. Either in this life or the life to come, they will return. They will have to pay their debt to justice; they will suffer for their sins; and may tread a thorny path; but if it leads them at last, like the penitent Prodigal, to a loving and forgiving father's heart and home, the painful experience will not have been in vain. Pray for your careless and disobedient children; hold on to them with your faith. Hope on, trust on, till you see the salvation of God" (Orson F. Whitney, in Conference Report, Apr. 1929, 110).
Brigham Young (1801–77) Second President of the Church
"Let the father and mother, who are members of this Church and Kingdom, take a righteous course, and strive with all their might never to do a wrong, but to do good all their lives; if they have one child or one hundred children, if they conduct themselves towards them as they should, binding them to the Lord by their faith and prayers, I care not where those children go, they are bound up to their parents by an everlasting tie, and no power of earth or hell can separate them from their parents in eternity; they will return again to the fountain from whence they sprang" (quoted in Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, comp. Bruce R. McConkie, 3 vols. [1954–56], 2:90–91).
Lorenzo Snow (1814–1901) Fifth President of the Church
"If you succeed in passing through these trials and afflictions and receive a resurrection, you will, by the power of the Priesthood, work and labor, as the Son of God has, until you get all your sons and daughters in the path of exaltation and glory. This is just as sure as that the sun rose this morning over yonder mountains. Therefore, mourn not because all your sons and daughters do not follow in the path that you have marked out to them, or give heed to your counsels. Inasmuch as we succeed in securing eternal glory, and stand as saviors, and as kings and priests to our God, we will save our posterity" (in Collected Discourses, comp. Brian H. Stuy, 5 vols. [1987–92], 3:364).
Boyd K. Packer
"The measure of our success as parents … will not rest solely on how our children turn out. That judgment would be just only if we could raise our families in a perfectly moral environment, and that now is not possible.
"It is not uncommon for responsible parents to lose one of their children, for a time, to influences over which they have no control. They agonize over rebellious sons or daughters. They are puzzled over why they are so helpless when they have tried so hard to do what they should.
"It is my conviction that those wicked influences one day will be overruled. …
"We cannot overemphasize the value of temple marriage, the binding ties of the sealing ordinance, and the standards of worthiness required of them. When parents keep the covenants they have made at the altar of the temple, their children will be forever bound to them" ("Our Moral Environment," Ensign, May 1992, 68).
Is not every child of God sealed to Him, BIC?
Aaron, Book of Mormon Prophet expounding the promises of Christ to a Kingand people guilty of many murders;
13 And Aaron did expound unto him the scriptures from the creation of Adam, laying the fall of man before him, and their carnal state and also the plan of redemption, which was prepared from the foundation of the world, through Christ, for all whosoever would believe on his name.
14 And since man had fallen he could not merit anything of himself; but the sufferings and death of Christ atone for their sins, through faith and repentance, and so forth; and that he breaketh the bands of death, that the grave shall have no victory, and that the sting of death should be swallowed up in the hopes of glory; and Aaron did expound all these things unto the king.
15 And it came to pass that after Aaron had expounded these things unto him, the king said: of What shall I do that I may have this eternal life which thou hast spoken? Yea, what shall I do that I may be born of God, having this wicked spirit rooted out of my breast, and receive his Spirit, that I may be filled with joy, that I may not be cast off at the last day? Behold, said he, I will give up all that I possess, yea, I will forsake my kingdom, that I may receive this great joy.
16 But Aaron said unto him: If thou desirest this thing, if thou wilt bow down before God, yea, if thou wilt repent of all thy sins, and will bow down before God, and call on his name in faith, believing that ye shall receive, then shalt thou receive the hope which thou desirest. (Alma 22:13-16.)
Study, seek the Spirit, reconcile the Prophets. I have many more scriptural aids for this purpose, just ask!
Bob
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Squally
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1296
Re: Does Each Galaxy Have Its Own God...
Thanks for this post!!Original_Intent wrote:My thoughts on progression between kingdoms....I really do no know, but this is my limited stupid mortal thought process. It seems weird that a person that made it into the terrestrial kingdom just barely could progress up to the highest levels of the same kingdom, but someone who just missed making it into the celestial kingdom could never make any progress due to it "crossing a kingdom boundary". That being said, God's ways are not man's ways and I will humbly and gratefully accept whatever it is, and I am sure that it will be clear why it is however it turns out to be.
My gut feeling is that there will be unlimited progression possibility in the eternities, but this is not taught so that people will not foolishly decide to "eat drink and be merry" and we can repent later...it is clear that this life is the time to prepare for eternity, and that our performance on this life is the most critical in all of our eternal existence. Maybe the amount of progress that we can make in one year in mortality takes thousands or millions of years - or maybe there are "hard limits" on how much we can progress outside of mortality - kind of like how we believe we reached a point in the pre-existense where we could go no further without experiencing mortality.
The speculation is intriguing, but I always try to maintain an attitude of not proposing anything to God, I will be interested in seeing how things work, and look forward to learning how and why it works. In the meantime, I have to dxo the best I can with my limited understanding, at the same time trying to expand that understanding.
I also have felt the "gut feeling" as I have studied more. I used to lean more toward eternal damnation than progression because in my younger mind I thought it fair, and leaned more toward "earning salvation". Now I tend a little more toward eternal progression because as I have studied and prayed I find that to be more in line with the scriptures. Is there a reason we teach the spirits in prison and do the ordinances for all mankind? Also the scripture that states eternal damnation is such because it comes from the Lord whose name is eternal. Interesting paradox indeed.
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LukeAir2008
- captain of 1,000
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Re: Does Each Galaxy Have Its Own God...
Bob, you still haven't answered the question? The statement by Elder McConkie indicates that true salvation consists of being saved in the celestial kingdom and receiving exaltation. He is saying that those who inherit the lower kingdoms are not saved in the true sense.bobhenstra wrote:(Doctrine and Covenants 6:13.)sbsion wrote:Nobody's upset, scripturally uninformed perhaps, but not upset.KalelIsbell wrote:I am sorry that this question has upset so many, I had never heard of this theory before and just wanted to ask people who may have better understanding then I, I know it is speculation but is that not how we learn, line upon line, asking and getting answers, which in turn give us more questions. I also know that these kinds of questions are not relevant to our salvation, but are the mysteries of God. But I also thought that I was asking fellow saints and not casting my pearls before swine. I guess I am too trusting of people. But nonetheless I am again sorry for the contention that it seems to have caused.
Sometimes we're simply guilty of reading more into a post than the author actually intended.
Your question has merit, also the opinions, right or wrong, but sharing is an important part of how we learn.
There are times when some here explode, but they soon repent or leave, we must allow them that!
Bob
remember, salvation is "automatic", except for perdition, the question is not one of salvation, but, rather, do you want "more"?
13 If thou wilt do good, yea, and hold out faithful to the end, thou shalt be saved in the kingdom of God, which is the greatest of all the gifts of God; for there is no gift greater than the gift of salvation.
(Doctrine and Covenants 14:7.)
7 And, if you keep my commandments and endure to the end you shall have eternal life, which gift is the greatest of all the gifts of God.
"Salvation consists in the glory, authority, majesty, power and dominion
which Jehovah possesses and in no thing else; and no being can possess it
but himself or one like him." (Lectures on Faith 7:9)
Elder Bruce R. McConkie has explained: "We are ofttimes prone to create
artificial distinctions, to say that salvation means one thing and exaltation
another, to suppose that salvation means to be resurrected, but that exaltation
or eternal life is something in addition thereto. It is true that there are some
passages of scripture that use salvation in a special and limited sense in order
to give an overall perspective ( from the first step to the last step) of the plan
of salvation that we would not otherwise have. (2 Nephi 9:1-27; D&C 76:40-
49; D&C 132:15-17.) These passages show the difference between general
or universal salvation that consists of coming forth from the grave in
immortality, and specific or individual salvation that consists of an
inheritance in the celestial kingdom (last step of salvation). (Alma 11:40)
"Since it is the prophetic purpose to lead men to full salvation in the highest
heaven of the celestial world, when they speak and write about salvation,
almost without exception, they mean eternal life or exaltation . They use
the terms salvation, exaltation, and eternal life as synonyms , as words that
mean exactly the same thing without any difference, distinction, or
variance whatever." ( Promised Messiah, p. 129.
The above statement by Elder McConkie is in perfect harmony with the
prior statements of our Lord.
I'm content with Salvation or Eternal life, which "is" Exaltation! One step at a time, just like we're taught in the Temple!
Bob
This has nothing to do with your erroneous belief that all will be saved in the celestial kingdom. You have taken a correct statement and twisted it to match you incorrect beliefs.
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NoGreaterLove
- captain of 1,000
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Re: Does Each Galaxy Have Its Own God...
bobMy answer is, not true! The prophets have told us salvation, eternal life is exaltation, synonyms, all three words mean the same thing
This is very close to the teaching of the protestant churches of once saved always saved. I know you truly believe what you are teaching. I have seen this course of teaching throughout your posts and have not responded because I knew you were pretty set in your ways on it.
However, I can assure you that you can not ever, not ever, progress from one kingdom into another. It can not and will not happen, ever.
This is so important for you to know. I affects everyone's eternity. To make a mistake on this principle and live as if it were true, has eternal implications for anyone.
Please do sit on this one for a while and pray about it with an open mind. Just think if I am wrong, I have nothing to lose. If you are wrong, you have eternity to lose, exaltation and eternal life, living with your wife again. The principle you are teaching can have an effect on anyone who reads your teaching. What if they begin to think they can screw up here and repent later and still receive it all? What a price for them to pay.
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ShawnC
- Minion
- Posts: 1062
- Location: Idaho
Re: Does Each Galaxy Have Its Own God...
I'm going to pipe in one more time here. I have followed this thread because it is a very interesting topic to me. Those who are familiar with me, know that I have family members who are a part of Jim Harmstons TLC church in Manti. There are obscure quotes that I have seen (but not able to substantiate) from earlier prophets and apostles about progressing between kingdoms, (i.e. JS spoke of how much harder it was to repent in the next world, but never said it wasn't possible). It can be a little confusing. This is a doctrine that the TLC church teaches as well. I called them on it one time in the sense of what would be the motivation to truly live righteously here, if "eventually" we are all saved in the kingdom of God? They didn't "really" have an answer. This is where thier multiple mortal probations thing comes in also. That you keep practicing in different mortalities to "get it right" if you will. This in my mind goes against what Alma teaches us about NOW is the time to prepare to meet God, and to not procrastinate the day of your repentance. These little doctrinal changes are what Bella speaks a lot about that the New Age is behind. Satan is very good at getting us to feel comfort and security in subtle falsehoods, or in the "philosophies of men".NoGreaterLove wrote:bobMy answer is, not true! The prophets have told us salvation, eternal life is exaltation, synonyms, all three words mean the same thing
This is very close to the teaching of the protestant churches of once saved always saved. I know you truly believe what you are teaching. I have seen this course of teaching throughout your posts and have not responded because I knew you were pretty set in your ways on it.
However, I can assure you that you can not ever, not ever, progress from one kingdom into another. It can not and will not happen, ever.
This is so important for you to know. I affects everyone's eternity. To make a mistake on this principle and live as if it were true, has eternal implications for anyone.
Please do sit on this one for a while and pray about it with an open mind. Just think if I am wrong, I have nothing to lose. If you are wrong, you have eternity to lose, exaltation and eternal life, living with your wife again. The principle you are teaching can have an effect on anyone who reads your teaching. What if they begin to think they can screw up here and repent later and still receive it all? What a price for them to pay.
That being said, I think this type of doctrine is very important to understand every whit. The Spirit really needs to teach you about each precept. I'm still on that path, so I can't say definitively where I stand, only what some of the experiences are that have brought me at least this far.
Shawn
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Quiet Cricket
- captain of 100
- Posts: 245
Re: Does Each Galaxy Have Its Own God...
I have a problem with this argument:
Exaltation is salvation, therefore everyone who partakes of salvation is exalted.
The problem is there are different kinds of salvation. Those in the terrestrial kingdom are partakers of salvation; it is a kingdom of glory.
Saying that salvation is always exaltation is like saying a car is always a porche.
Bob, you may be right about more people going to the celestial kingdom than we usually think possible. For one thing there are billions of children that die before the age of accountability. Are they going to be the majority in the celestial kingdom?
In regards to families that are sealed together, there are a lot of statements made by the brethren speaking of worthy parents not losing their posterity. Maybe they will be with you in the celestial kingdom, but as angels forever "worlds without end". They would still be with you, you wouldn't "lose" them, but they wouldn't receive exaltation, which is a special gift that must be earned.
Exaltation is salvation, therefore everyone who partakes of salvation is exalted.
The problem is there are different kinds of salvation. Those in the terrestrial kingdom are partakers of salvation; it is a kingdom of glory.
Saying that salvation is always exaltation is like saying a car is always a porche.
Bob, you may be right about more people going to the celestial kingdom than we usually think possible. For one thing there are billions of children that die before the age of accountability. Are they going to be the majority in the celestial kingdom?
In regards to families that are sealed together, there are a lot of statements made by the brethren speaking of worthy parents not losing their posterity. Maybe they will be with you in the celestial kingdom, but as angels forever "worlds without end". They would still be with you, you wouldn't "lose" them, but they wouldn't receive exaltation, which is a special gift that must be earned.
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gruden
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1763
Re: Does Each Galaxy Have Its Own God...
Ah, now there's a new twist we can throw into the mix.Quiet Cricket wrote:In regards to families that are sealed together, there are a lot of statements made by the brethren speaking of worthy parents not losing their posterity. Maybe they will be with you in the celestial kingdom, but as angels forever "worlds without end". They would still be with you, you wouldn't "lose" them, but they wouldn't receive exaltation, which is a special gift that must be earned.
Joseph said he would go to hell and back to bring Emma with him (she did not, as we know, endure to the end).
There is a spiritual currency - if you will - that will enable some to do that. Think of it in terms of how Moses was able to intervene on behalf of the Israelites, or how Abraham was able to bargain with God. If you have enough good works built up, you can become an advocate for family members, as Christ is an advocate for all of us. We need to become as saviors on Mt. Zion to do things like that, but it is possible. The sealing bonds can be made very powerful based on our spiritual exertions, individually and as families. Like anything else, you get out of it what you put into it.
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NoGreaterLove
- captain of 1,000
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Re: Does Each Galaxy Have Its Own God...
Shawn, Gruden, QC
I know Bob thinks we are mislead. I know he truly believes with his whole heart what he is stating. I really enloy Bobs presence on this forum. I know he truly misses his wife. He has brought a lot of wonderful insight on this forum.
Bob thanks for all you have contributed. I know we may not be able to convince you differently on this subject. But I hope you will reconsider. Talk to your bishop, consult the prophets writings on this. What the prophets say, 100% coincide with the scriptures.
This absolutely is in line with the scriptures. If you are interpreting the scriptures in a way that conflicts with this statement, then you are misinterpreting the scriptures. The prophet is not wrong.
I know Bob thinks we are mislead. I know he truly believes with his whole heart what he is stating. I really enloy Bobs presence on this forum. I know he truly misses his wife. He has brought a lot of wonderful insight on this forum.
Bob thanks for all you have contributed. I know we may not be able to convince you differently on this subject. But I hope you will reconsider. Talk to your bishop, consult the prophets writings on this. What the prophets say, 100% coincide with the scriptures.
By Joseph Fielding SmithADVANCEMENT FROM LOWER TO HIGHER. It has been asked if it is possible for one who inherits the telestial glory to advance in time to the celestial glory?
The answer to this question is, No!
This absolutely is in line with the scriptures. If you are interpreting the scriptures in a way that conflicts with this statement, then you are misinterpreting the scriptures. The prophet is not wrong.
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gruden
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1763
Re: Does Each Galaxy Have Its Own God...
Trust me, NGL, I'm on a different page than you or Bob or anyone on this one. That's OK, I'm used to it. If Bob is happy, he's fine with me.
Light seeks light. Truth seeks truth. Salvation or whatever it is we seek must be done in fear and trembling before the Lord. Anyone who ignores the message of the scriptures does so at their own peril.
Light seeks light. Truth seeks truth. Salvation or whatever it is we seek must be done in fear and trembling before the Lord. Anyone who ignores the message of the scriptures does so at their own peril.
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LukeAir2008
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 2985
- Location: Highland
Re: Does Each Galaxy Have Its Own God...
When Joseph spoke of repenting in the next life he was speaking of those in the Spirit World who after learning the truth can then begin to repent and progress and have the ordinances received vicariously. He also stated that to change as a spirit is extremely difficult. What we choose in this life stays with us in eternity. It really will be a case of only those who sincerely did not know any better and would have chosen the truth had they been offered it will be able to repent.
We are to choose what kingdom we want to inherit now. To leave it until after death is to leave it until it is everlastingly too late!
We are to choose what kingdom we want to inherit now. To leave it until after death is to leave it until it is everlastingly too late!
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NoGreaterLove
- captain of 1,000
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Re: Does Each Galaxy Have Its Own God...
Thanks LukeWhen Joseph spoke of repenting in the next life he was speaking of those in the Spirit World who after learning the truth can then begin to repent and progress and have the ordinances received vicariously. He also stated that to change as a spirit is extremely difficult. What we choose in this life stays with us in eternity. It really will be a case of only those who sincerely did not know any better and would have chosen the truth had they been offered it will be able to repent.
We are to choose what kingdom we want to inherit now. To leave it until after death is to leave it until it is everlastingly too late
Great explanation!
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Henmasher
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 1277
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Re: Does Each Galaxy Have Its Own God...
My understanding is that we should do all we can in this life, then in the spirit world we recieve the rest of what we need, and then at the judgement bar Jesus extends us the gift of celestial glory if he feels to merit it to us. The atonement paid the price to allow repentance in a earthly and spiritual state. Isn't there a statement that we will have our own Gethsemane in the spirit world or am I way off base???NoGreaterLove wrote:Thanks LukeWhen Joseph spoke of repenting in the next life he was speaking of those in the Spirit World who after learning the truth can then begin to repent and progress and have the ordinances received vicariously. He also stated that to change as a spirit is extremely difficult. What we choose in this life stays with us in eternity. It really will be a case of only those who sincerely did not know any better and would have chosen the truth had they been offered it will be able to repent.
We are to choose what kingdom we want to inherit now. To leave it until after death is to leave it until it is everlastingly too late
Great explanation!
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bobhenstra
- Level 34 Illuminated
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- Location: Central Utah
Re: Does Each Galaxy Have Its Own God...
I don't know how many times I have to say it. "I agree", there is no advancement (earned, as in military advancement in grade) among the kingdoms, "except" as explained in the Temple, where it "happens" by commandment. "NOT" by merit (earned advancement).NoGreaterLove wrote:Shawn, Gruden, QC
I know Bob thinks we are mislead. I know he truly believes with his whole heart what he is stating. I really enloy Bobs presence on this forum. I know he truly misses his wife. He has brought a lot of wonderful insight on this forum.
Bob thanks for all you have contributed. I know we may not be able to convince you differently on this subject. But I hope you will reconsider. Talk to your bishop, consult the prophets writings on this. What the prophets say, 100% coincide with the scriptures.
By Joseph Fielding SmithADVANCEMENT FROM LOWER TO HIGHER. It has been asked if it is possible for one who inherits the telestial glory to advance in time to the celestial glory?
The answer to this question is, No!
This absolutely is in line with the scriptures. If you are interpreting the scriptures in a way that conflicts with this statement, then you are misinterpreting the scriptures. The prophet is not wrong.
All the quotes mention by you and Cricket above suggest "merit!"
What is the sense of doing work for the dead if they cannot be exalted?
Will it be harder for some of the dead to repent than others? Absolutely! But can they eventually repent? Absolutely!
And after they repent, no matter how long it takes, can they be taught faith repentance baptism and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost? Yes, they can!
Can they accept the vicarious temple work accomplished for them by we mortals? Absolutely!
Does the vicarious work accomplished for them and accepted by them take them to the Celestial Kingdom? YES!
They are all our brothers and sisters, do we not love them? Why would any of us agree to leave them behind? Why would we even think that our Heavenly Parents wouldn't be smart enough and powerful enough to create a plan that "also" covered them, returned all of their children back to them? I know my Mother in Heaven would tolerate nothing less! Any mothers here that would tolerate anything less?
There is a book out published by Deseret Book called "Odds are your going to be Exalted" that explains how it's all done.
I have put on this site my thesis describing the ways our Lord will accomplish our Fathers plan.
I put that same thesis on the church's forum web site, it was there for several years, on another site for over ten years before it closed down. Were there people there who objected? Yes! Were there many more who agreed? Yes, many more! But it was there until the church closed the forum down, too many trolls arguing stupid things.
I have spoken to my ward and stake leaders about it, I still hold a temple recommend. I have not been chased out of Genola! My priesthood leaders recommended I put the same type of disclaimer on it that is on all books published outside the church, I did so!
I have fielded several thousand emails concerning my thesis, about 10% bitterly negative, not much love there. Most asking for references already in the thesis, but ignored or read past, like here on this thread, about 35-40 percent completely agreeing, the rest declaring no specific stand one way or another.
I ask, just where in the scripture does it describe a Telestial or Terrestrial Kingdom that "remains" Telestial or Terrestrial forever? They don't exist! Only Telestial earths like the one we are on exists, all going through the same process, worlds without end! Where Gods and Christ dwell, worlds without end. Except, this earth when it's celestialed is our Saviors earth. This earth is the redemptive earth, the earth Our Savior come to to save the peoples of all others earths under his jurisdiction.
I will put the address to my thesis on this thread, and this will be all I'll have to say on this matter on this thread. I urge all to search, study, ponder and pray!
Bob
http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... =19&t=5645
Last edited by bobhenstra on February 19th, 2010, 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Quiet Cricket
- captain of 100
- Posts: 245
Re: Does Each Galaxy Have Its Own God...
Thanks for the discussion and your insights, I'll read your thesis and keep studying.bobhenstra wrote:I will put the address to my thesis on this thread, and this will be all I'll have to say on this matter on this thread. I urge all to search, study, ponder and pray!
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shadow
- Level 34 Illuminated
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Re: Does Each Galaxy Have Its Own God...
Anyone have any good quotes regarding the work that will be done during the millennium??
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shadow
- Level 34 Illuminated
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Re: Does Each Galaxy Have Its Own God...
We all screw up "here", you included. And we can repent "later". Do you know many people that have died being perfect? Are you perfect right now? What if you died in the next 5 minutes? Are you then condemned to a lesser kingdom because you're NOT perfect? Why would time to learn in the hereafter be extended to an imperfect person like you and not the inactive guy drinking a cold beer on a warm beach with a hot chick? If you can change in the hereafter and become perfect, can't he too?NoGreaterLove wrote: What if they begin to think they can screw up here and repent later and still receive it all? What a price for them to pay.
Ever been to the Temple for someone else?
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sbsion
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Re: Does Each Galaxy Have Its Own God...
By Joseph Fielding Smithbobhenstra wrote:[the telestial glory to advance in time to the celestial glory?
The answer to this question is, No!
This absolutely is in line with the scriptures. If you are interpreting the scriptures in a way that conflicts with this statement, then you are misinterpreting the scriptures. The prophet is not wrong.[/quote]
I don't know how many times I have to say it. "I agree", there is no advancement (earned, as in military advancement in grade) among the kingdoms, "except" as explained in the Temple, where it "happens" by commandment. "NOT" by merit (earned advancement).
Can they accept the vicarious temple work accomplished for them by we mortals? Absolutely!
Does the vicarious work accomplished for them and accepted by them take them to the Celestial Kingdom? YES!
. just where in the scripture does it describe a Telestial or Terrestrial Kingdom that "remains" Telestial or Terrestrial forever?
http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... =19&t=5645[/quote
why all the rehetoric.....it's simple, we ARE, we just experience manifestations of what we ARE, and will always be, there is NO advancement above what we are, we do not change, only have experiences to convict us of our nature.........simple
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SmallFarm
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Re: Does Each Galaxy Have Its Own God...
I was under the impression we go to the spirit world when we die... not our respective kingdoms. While in the spirit world we can repent but even then it's subject to people doing our works for us in the temple. After judgement day we move on to our respective kingdoms where we can only progress within those kingdoms. Is this a wrong interpretation?shadow wrote:We all screw up "here", you included. And we can repent "later". Do you know many people that have died being perfect? Are you perfect right now? What if you died in the next 5 minutes? Are you then condemned to a lesser kingdom because you're NOT perfect? Why would time to learn in the hereafter be extended to an imperfect person like you and not the inactive guy drinking a cold beer on a warm beach with a hot chick? If you can change in the hereafter and become perfect, can't he too?NoGreaterLove wrote: What if they begin to think they can screw up here and repent later and still receive it all? What a price for them to pay.
Ever been to the Temple for someone else?
