LDS Freedom Forum

Original_Intent wrote:[safe than sorry, but I would be willing to bet it will be just another day.

Y2K was a completely different type of event - not exactly second coming type of stuff. Also, lest you continue to think that those warning about Y2K were just hyping it to make a profit.... let me enlighten you.
worst case scenarios that you heard were very real possibilities.[/quote]

I sooo agree, but, most of us didn't really know until AFTER Y2k, so, how do we figure this one, is it a "wolf cry"? Further more, only some attribute a second coming to 2012, while others, castrophe, and science, just an alignment, etc...which is it..that's why I'm asking.....stan

ithink wrote:If the Egyptian calendar ended in 2012, what would that mean to you? The Mayans have been gone a long time, as have the Egyptians. A lot of good the calendar did for them.
The whole mayan 2012 thing is a complete and total waste of time.

This is different, as LDS, we have a BoM, we claim the Lamanites as our brethren, they have "folk lore" we often ascribe ourselves to in relation to Christ coming to the Ameericas, the Mayans are of that lineage, though apostate when writing their calendar, the science behind it is incredibly accurate concerning the heavens, similiar to Abraham's passing of science to the Egyptians, etc, etc............sooo, is there more than just a calendar event related here? Science has CONFIRMED the accurace of the alignment for that date.......nothing to do with the second coming? perhaps, but, Father does all things according to law, is there a law hidden in the concept?

sbsion wrote:

Original_Intent wrote:[safe than sorry, but I would be willing to bet it will be just another day.

Y2K was a completely different type of event - not exactly second coming type of stuff. Also, lest you continue to think that those warning about Y2K were just hyping it to make a profit.... let me enlighten you.
worst case scenarios that you heard were very real possibilities.

I sooo agree, but, most of us didn't really know until AFTER Y2k, so, how do we figure this one, is it a "wolf cry"? Further more, only some attribute a second coming to 2012, while others, castrophe, and science, just an alignment, etc...which is it..that's why I'm asking.....stan

Y2k was not a different type of event. There were many quacks stating the end of the world was comming or that the second comming was here.....just like 2012. People got prepared......some hid in compounds or retreats. I think 12 years has blurred your memory.

I do remember one of the brethren speaking about Y2k though (I think it was President Faust). He said something to the effect that while there might be a few bugs, he didn't believe anything major would occur. Maybe we can expect something similar from the brethren as 2012 approaches.

Edit: Here's President Faust's Quote

Today many people are obsessed with the Y2K problem and worry about the date coming up right because of the way computers measure time. As someone once said about time: “[It] changes with time: in youth, time marches on; in middle age, time flies; and in old age, time runs out.” 5 We have come to rely on electronics for much of our daily work, and we are naturally concerned about the need to reprogram computers to move into the next century. While some glitches may occur, I am optimistic that no great catastrophic computer breakdown will disrupt society as we move into the next century. I have a far greater fear of the disruption of the traditional values of society.

patriotsaint wrote:[
I do remember one of the brethren speaking about Y2k though (I think it was President Faust). He said something to the effect that while there might be a few bugs, he didn't believe anything major would occur. Maybe we can expect something similar from the brethren as 2012 approaches.
Edit: Here's President Faust's Quote

Today many people are obsessed with the Y2K problem and worry about the date coming up right because of the way computers measure time. As someone once said about time: “[It] changes with time: in youth, time marches on; in middle age, time flies; and in old age, time runs out.” 5 We have come to rely on electronics for much of our daily work, and we are naturally concerned about the need to reprogram computers to move into the next century. While some glitches may occur, I am optimistic that no great catastrophic computer breakdown will disrupt society as we move into the next century. I have a far greater fear of the disruption of the traditional values of society.

thanks, this is what I'm looking for.......finally

ready2prepare wrote:[How about your "brethren," sbsion?
Have they said anything?
Best Regards,
Sharon (Helping people get prepared) in Mississippi

My "brethren" are your "brethren"...........what think ye?

No problem. I was bugged when I couldn't remember the exact quote, so I had to track it down. OCD you know!

patriotsaint wrote:

sbsion wrote:

Original_Intent wrote:[safe than sorry, but I would be willing to bet it will be just another day.

Y2K was a completely different type of event - not exactly second coming type of stuff. Also, lest you continue to think that those warning about Y2K were just hyping it to make a profit.... let me enlighten you.
worst case scenarios that you heard were very real possibilities.

I sooo agree, but, most of us didn't really know until AFTER Y2k, so, how do we figure this one, is it a "wolf cry"? Further more, only some attribute a second coming to 2012, while others, castrophe, and science, just an alignment, etc...which is it..that's why I'm asking.....stan

Y2k was not a different type of event. There were many quacks stating the end of the world was comming or that the second comming was here.....just like 2012. People got prepared......some hid in compounds or retreats. I think 12 years has blurred your memory.

I do remember one of the brethren speaking about Y2k though (I think it was President Faust). He said something to the effect that while there might be a few bugs, he didn't believe anything major would occur. Maybe we can expect something similar from the brethren as 2012 approaches.

Edit: Here's President Faust's Quote

Today many people are obsessed with the Y2K problem and worry about the date coming up right because of the way computers measure time. As someone once said about time: “[It] changes with time: in youth, time marches on; in middle age, time flies; and in old age, time runs out.” 5 We have come to rely on electronics for much of our daily work, and we are naturally concerned about the need to reprogram computers to move into the next century. While some glitches may occur, I am optimistic that no great catastrophic computer breakdown will disrupt society as we move into the next century. I have a far greater fear of the disruption of the traditional values of society.

Whole lotta stuff to worry about between now and then....

Quiet Cricket wrote:The Lord instructed Abraham in Astronomy, Science, and Mathematics. He then commanded him to go to Egypt and teach the ruling class what he knew about those subjects. It seems plausible to me that ancient calendars are much more complex in eternally significant ways. Whether the Mayan calendar is one of them, I don't know.

But the pyramids the Egyptians build have nothing to do with what the Hebrews were about, that is why they had to leave. Similarly, the Mezo American pyramids and the Mayans had nothing to do with the Nephites either, and neither does their pagan calendar which is not inspired, certainly not if it just "ends" since we know that 2012 cannot be the "end". It is tempting to jump to think the Mayan calendar is important, but I think there is enough evidence now that shows where the Book of Mormon events took place, and that those events were not in the region of the Mayans, and therefore are not important.

[quote="Jason of society.[/quote][/quote]

Whole lotta stuff to worry about between now and then....[/quote]


Yup..........this is probably MORE important, ie, WW-3, collapse of American economy, invasion by China and Russia, earthquakes, volcanoes, pandamic disease, world food shortages, etc......oil.......poppies.........etc

ithink wrote:I think there is enough evidence now that shows where the Book of Mormon events took place, and that those events were not in the region of the Mayans, and therefore are not important.

I thought it was still trendy to believe that the Book of Mormon took place in Central America. Personally I think the Great Lakes and to the south makes the most sense. I'm interested to know what you think and what evidence you're talking about.

I'm pretty sure that the Second Coming won't occur in 2012. But I do think there is a possibility of some sign occurring then. But as many of you have already stated, I doubt we'll reach 2012 without a series of calamities preceding it. It would be unwise for us, as Saints, to attach too much significance to a particular date.

kathyn wrote:I'm pretty sure that the Second Coming won't occur in 2012. But I do think there is a possibility of some sign occurring then. But as many of you have already stated, I doubt we'll reach 2012 without a series of calamities preceding it. It would be unwise for us, as Saints, to attach too much significance to a particular date.

Yeah we'll be very lucky to get out of 2010 without some very serious changes to our standard of living!

I don't know of any quotes by current prophets about the date 2012. Here is one I found in the Joseph Smith manual from last year. This is on page 253. "Jesus Christ never did reveal to any man the precise time that He would come(see Matthew 24:36; D&C 49:7). Go and read the scriptures, and you cannot find anything that specifies the exact hour He would come; and all that say so are false teachers."
The scriptures have said "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." (Matthew 24:36) I have wondered if we might know the year, it is not specified, only the day and hour are.

From what I recall from reading Dr. Cohen, he isn't setting a specific date for the Second Coming. He does point out specific dates that have special meaning, according to the Jewish calendar, though and has some interesting hypotheses re: Betegeuse going super-nova and how that could signal the opening of the 7th seal. At any rate, he believes something will happen in September of next year and not the 2012 date of the Mayan calendar. I don't think he's ever tried to set himself up as any kind of prophet, but just a scholar seeing patterns in the Jewish calendar. And we know that in ancient times, the Lord did use the Jewish calendar to set up certain dates as representing signs, etc.

At any rate, Dr. Cohen's books do give us some good insight into Jewish feast days and how they all represented Jesus Christ in some way or other. The Jews just lack the gospel to help them understand the "why" of many of these things.

kathyn wrote:From what I recall from reading Dr. Cohen, he isn't setting a specific date for the Second Coming. He does point out specific dates that have special meaning, according to the Jewish calendar, though and has some interesting hypotheses re: Betegeuse going super-nova and how that could signal the opening of the 7th seal. At any rate, he believes something will happen in September of next year and not the 2012 date of the Mayan calendar. I don't think he's ever tried to set himself up as any kind of prophet, but just a scholar seeing patterns in the Jewish calendar. And we know that in ancient times, the Lord did use the Jewish calendar to set up certain dates as representing signs, etc.

He's teaching ideas that have not been substantiated by the authorities of the Church. If he has been taught some mysteries they are for him alone. It is not his place to interpret scripture for anyone other than himself and his own family.

I'll refer you to Alma 12:9 that I quoted in the other thread.

I need help in understanding when it is appropriate to share spiritual experiences and when not to. I am grateful that Lehi and Nephi shared their dreams, and visions. There have been other time members have shared spiritual experiences with me and I have been greatly blessed by them. In the new Gospel Principles manual we are encouraged to share personal experiences(as appropriate) when discussing the lesson material.

Kathyn,

When I was quoting Joseph Smith, I wasn't referring to Dr. Cohen.

JerL wrote:I need help in understanding when it is appropriate to share spiritual experiences and when not to. I am grateful that Lehi and Nephi shared their dreams, and visions. There have been other time members have shared spiritual experiences with me and I have been greatly blessed by them. In the new Gospel Principles manual we are encouraged to share personal experiences(as appropriate) when discussing the lesson material.

according to the spirit of truth..JS/DC explain simply. " ask..." burning in your bosoom, or a stupor of thought...easier to make a statement insteady of "asking", spirit will always confirm, but, can you feel?

JerL wrote:I need help in understanding when it is appropriate to share spiritual experiences and when not to. I am grateful that Lehi and Nephi shared their dreams, and visions. There have been other time members have shared spiritual experiences with me and I have been greatly blessed by them. In the new Gospel Principles manual we are encouraged to share personal experiences(as appropriate) when discussing the lesson material.

Sharing an experience when moved upon by the spirit is fine. This man is not sharing a spiritual experience, but rather interpreting scripture and trying to convince others of his interpretation through firesides etc. The only people on earth that can do that are the duly constituted authorities of the Church.

You know a book or presentation is on fairly safe ground when they are repeating what has already been taught by the authorities of the Church. Those who share "mysteries" are on shaky ground, because those that truly have learned mysteries that have not been publicly revealed by the Brethren will not reveal them. (Alma 12:9)

Brigham Young also said that we don't recieve more of the mysteries because we blab too much.


ps- The visions of Lehi and Nephi are different. They recorded their experiences, but there is no indication they blabbed them to every person they met. Even if they had done so, they were both prophets....the leaders of their people. We have the experiences today because another prophet (mormon) saw fit to include them in his abridgement as directed by the Spirit.

patriotsaint wrote:ps- The visions of Lehi and Nephi are different. They recorded their experiences, but there is no indication they blabbed them to every person they met. Even if they had done so, they were both prophets....the leaders of their people. We have the experiences today because another prophet (mormon) saw fit to include them in his abridgement as directed by the Spirit.

'Every person they met' was their families, especially Nephi. And Nephi recorded his (at least some of them) for his posterity. Nephi was shown some things he was specifically told not to tell anyone because it was someone else's job (John's). I suspect he withheld some things from his brothers because he would've been casting pearls before swine, but I also think he shared them with those family members that were capable of appreciating them.

Now, what specifically was it about Nephi's experiences that make them more public or prophetic than anyone else? In Jerusalem Lehi tells us that he was one of many prophets. What were prophets in those days? Men inspired by the Holy Ghost and sent out to preach repentance (3 Ne 6:20). Could not any of us be like them? Many of us have been on missions, so isn't that what we were doing?

In that sense we were acting as prophets in the same sense as we read in the scriptures. I think the Church membership has a distorted view of prophets because we think of the president as The Prophet, and there is no other prophets. But we sustain him as A prophet, as A seer, as A revelator for the church. Each individually is a spiritual gift we can seek for ourselves (my sister was told she had the gift of prophecy). What sets Pres. Monson apart from us are the keys and an administrative calling. Beyond that, the gifts available to him are the same ones available to you or me.

Any of us can be like Nephi if we develop the same faith as he had and write down and appropriately share our spiritual experiences like he did. Nephi told us exactly how he did it. There is absolutely nothing stopping us from doing the same... except ourselves.

sbsion wrote:

ready2prepare wrote:[How about your "brethren," sbsion?
Have they said anything?
Best Regards,
Sharon (Helping people get prepared) in Mississippi

I'm sure Father knows, and I am waiting further "light and knowledge", so I started here, the spirit KNOWS

What did you mean by that Sharon? Though I agree with sbsion about as much as I do a broken clock, I am not sure how appropriate that comment was.

Has sbsion been following "other brethren"?

Great post gruden!

I think the difference was that Lehi/Nephi were acting within their stewardships. I certainly believe that we can all do the same. I absolutely agree with you.

However, Interpreting doctrine in a way not substantiated by the brethren is not within brother Cohen's stewardship. That was my main point. It wouldn't bug me so much if he was sharing an uplifting personal experience.

Mahonri wrote: What did you mean by that Sharon? Though
I agree with sbsion about as much as I do a broken
clock, I am not sure how appropriate that comment was.
Has sbsion been following "other brethren"?

He was (and I believe still is) a TLC member.
So I believe the comment was appropriate
and that he took it in the right spirit. Of course,
if 'ya really wnat to know, it's best to ask him.

Best Regards,
Sharon (Helping people get prepared) in Mississippi

Well, we all need some TLC sometimes...