LDS Freedom Forum

I once read a paper that beautifully described the spirit world. It described the work being done, the type of material spirit is…etc..... I remember the author calling the spirit world as "the world of spirits......" throughout the paper.
I know this is vague, but any help would be great. I kind of remember it being some type of letter to the 1st Pres, but I am not 100% on that.

Also any other material on the spirit world you may have that I could add to my studies would be greatly appreciated.

http://userpages.burgoyne.com/bdespain/ ... oghale.htm

The above link is from a vision by Heber Q. Hale. The First Presidency asked him to give this talk. An institute teacher of mine gave this to me. This is the only vision like this they talk about openly. At least that's what she said. She said it's because the First Pres aked him to give the talk. This may not be the same reference you are looking for, but it's a great read and i highly recommend it nonetheless.

dewajack wrote:http://userpages.burgoyne.com/bdespain/ ... oghale.htm

The above link is from a vision by Heber Q. Hale. The First Presidency asked him to give this talk. An institute teacher of mine gave this to me. This is the only vision like this they talk about openly. At least that's what she said. She said it's because the First Pres aked him to give the talk. This may not be the same reference you are looking for, but it's a great read and i highly recommend it nonetheless.

Very interesting read, thanks for the link.

http://userpages.burgoyne.com/bdespain/ ... oghale.htm

The above link is from a vision by Heber Q. Hale. The First Presidency asked him to give this talk. An institute teacher of mine gave this to me. This is the only vision like this they talk about openly. At least that's what she said. She said it's because the First Pres aked him to give the talk. This may not be the same reference you are looking for, but it's a great read and i highly recommend it nonetheless.

Very impressive! Especially after my terrible description. Thank you so much for the link. It’s exactly what I wanted!

armedtotheteeth wrote:

http://userpages.burgoyne.com/bdespain/ ... oghale.htm

The above link is from a vision by Heber Q. Hale. The First Presidency asked him to give this talk. An institute teacher of mine gave this to me. This is the only vision like this they talk about openly. At least that's what she said. She said it's because the First Pres aked him to give the talk. This may not be the same reference you are looking for, but it's a great read and i highly recommend it nonetheless.

Very impressive! Especially after my terrible description. Thank you so much for the link. It’s exactly what I wanted!

Awesome. Thanks!

I could not help but notice the phrase "new birth". I correlates with Sarah Menets book.

armedtotheteeth wrote: Also any other material on the spirit world you may have that I could add to my studies would be greatly appreciated.

I'll tell you what I have learned as I studied with Cleon Skousen's friend, Bruce Wydner.

Firstly, we have always existed as intelligences. Intelligences are the first level of being, one of three. An intelligence is energy. An intelligence being, is of substance and form at the level of energy, and can do this one thing of its own volition, besides just existing. That one thing that intelligences can do is Seek, this is also called work.

Energy, to be a strong force exists among its own kind, collectively and individually seeking to work according to it's nature and ability. Magnetism seeks to magnetize, heat seeks to heat-up, electricity seeks to electrify, light seeks to light-up, etc, etc, etc...

God looks amongst the intelligences, and lo and behold some of them are seeking to be like his intelligence. Of the rest of the intelligences they are too weak or seek some other direction. Its kind of like God's intelligence is a magnate and our intelligences are magnates also. We are of his kind of energy and he is of our kind of energy. Through the process of spiritual propagation he gathers us up and gives us the next level of our being, to test us to see if we will still continue to seek him, and be like him.

Secondly, at the birth of our spirits we have added to our intelligences a new level of being. Spirits are the second of three levels of being. A spirit is quality, added upon our intelligence or energy. The most fine of elements, bordering upon the material, are incorporated upon our energy. This new composite being of energy and quality has the new abilities to notice, observe, contemplate, evaluate, think and reason. Those who continue to seek God in this second level of being keep their first estate.

Thirdly, at the birth of our physical bodies we have added to our intelligence and spirit another level of being. Man is the third of three levels of being. Man is matter, added upon intelligence or energy, and spirit or quality. Everything needed to interact on every level is now part of our being. We can continue to work, and do our part of God’s work or follow some other direction. The only question upon us is, will we continue to seek God in this final level of being and keep our second estate.

We were seeking God as intelligences, and as intelligences we are eternal, but we wanted to progress to become like God. As spirits he told us of the plan, that would give us everything we wanted, except a guarantee of eternal progression, but eternal progression is also possible if we would just keep seeking him, to do this one thing with every level of our being, seek him, as our work and glory also. Give him the only thing that has always been inherently ours, in trade for eternal life. We trade our energy for eternal life. Our energy is also called the Will. We trade that eternal part of us, our will, with him for eternal life.

God Bless,
Darren

WOW... Darren, you have to be one of the most intelligent people that I have the opportunity to read posting on this forum or anywhere. This stuff blows me away, but I'm just now learning soooo much. Thanks for the post and your insight, amazed....

Rourke wrote:WOW... Darren, you have to be one of the most intelligent people that I have the opportunity to read posting on this forum or anywhere. This stuff blows me away, but I'm just now learning soooo much. Thanks for the post and your insight, amazed....

all this information is availablein the "archieves"....one thing that must be remembered,in the DC, "........one intelligence above another........", that's gives us the "station of being"

Rourke wrote:WOW... Darren, you have to be one of the most intelligent people that I have the opportunity to read posting on this forum or anywhere. This stuff blows me away, but I'm just now learning soooo much. Thanks for the post and your insight, amazed....

hey- just cos he can post this stuff doesnt make him intelligent

having said that- yeah, i think he's an intelligent guy and enjoy reading his posts

Darren,

Thank you for your posts.

Darren wrote: God Bless,
Darren

Darren

i enjoyed the post and it got me thinking- as usual.
i even weaved some gene roddenberry "the Q" and "founders" into my thinking
that said, can i ask where you came to this thinking?
i am conscious of the saying philosophies of men mingled with scripture"
as i say- i enjoyed it, just curious where this eminated from
thanks

AussieOi wrote:

Darren wrote: God Bless,
Darren

Darren

i enjoyed the post and it got me thinking- as usual.
i even weaved some gene roddenberry "the Q" and "founders" into my thinking
that said, can i ask where you came to this thinking?
i am conscious of the saying philosophies of men mingled with scripture"
as i say- i enjoyed it, just curious where this eminated from
thanks

To Aussie-
Dude, you may be one mean smoocher, but you kind of got that funny Vince Vaughn thing going. Your nick name from now on is Vince.

Where the heck do you come up with this stuff?


To Darren - eh, the rest of us liked your post. I found it very logical and well said.

serenitylala wrote: Where the heck do you come up with this stuff?

actually the only person here apart from Col who has met me is renee.
and even she hasa no idea who i am
but if she puts 2 and 2 together she'll attest..........i was born this way. i didn't choose it. it chose me. i don't choose to be this kinds of person. it is who i am and i am not going to deny who i am. i demanded the right to marry a person just like me. thankfully, it was a girl.
(high on endorphons)

.

\

The items that Darren discussed are contained in the D&C and Peal of Great Price, just using different words. Light cleaveth unto light, one intelligence above another, standing among those that were spirits, Truth is knowledge, knowledge is light, free agency etc..
If you ponder the D&C and PofGP, especially D&C 50, 84, 88 and all of PofGP you will see where the ideas come from.

NoGreaterLove wrote:The items that Darren discussed are contained in the D&C and Peal of Great Price, just using different words. Light cleaveth unto light, one intelligence above another, standing among those that were spirits, Truth is knowledge, knowledge is light, free agency etc..
If you ponder the D&C and PofGP, especially D&C 50, 84, 88 and all of PofGP you will see where the ideas come from.

Thank you. Both Darren and you are awesome.

Squally wrote: Aussie, you have some of the funniest statements of anyone on the forum. LOL.

thanks

its a far cry from my childhood.
people used to laugh AT me, thankfully since the operation they just laugh with me
anyway, hope its worth the click for ya

Rourke wrote:WOW... Darren, you have to be one of the most intelligent people that I have the opportunity to read posting on this forum or anywhere. This stuff blows me away, but I'm just now learning soooo much. Thanks for the post and your insight, amazed....

Darren says that he got his information from W. Cleon Skousen via Bruce Wydner. Maybe Cleon is the intelligent one? Ah, but then Cleon got his information from John Widtsoe. John Widstoe got his info from the Scriptures...

I recommend listening to Skousen's 'Meaning of the Atonement' to learn not just about Intelligences but also the true doctrine of the Atonement.

The talk was given to the 200 missionaries of the Dallas Texas Mission on December 18, 1980.

http://www.latterdayconservative.com/downloads?dl_cat=2

Darren wrote:I'll tell you what I have learned as I studied with Cleon Skousen's friend, Bruce Wydner.

Firstly, we have always existed as intelligences. Intelligences are the first level of being, one of three. An intelligence is energy. An intelligence being, is of substance and form at the level of energy, and can do this one thing of its own volition, besides just existing. That one thing that intelligences can do is Seek, this is also called work.

Energy, to be a strong force exists among its own kind, collectively and individually seeking to work according to it's nature and ability. Magnetism seeks to magnetize, heat seeks to heat-up, electricity seeks to electrify, light seeks to light-up, etc, etc, etc...

God looks amongst the intelligences, and lo and behold some of them are seeking to be like his intelligence. Of the rest of the intelligences they are too weak or seek some other direction. Its kind of like God's intelligence is a magnate and our intelligences are magnates also. We are of his kind of energy and he is of our kind of energy. Through the process of spiritual propagation he gathers us up and gives us the next level of our being, to test us to see if we will still continue to seek him, and be like him.

Secondly, at the birth of our spirits we have added to our intelligences a new level of being. Spirits are the second of three levels of being. A spirit is quality, added upon our intelligence or energy. The most fine of elements, bordering upon the material, are incorporated upon our energy. This new composite being of energy and quality has the new abilities to notice, observe, contemplate, evaluate, think and reason. Those who continue to seek God in this second level of being keep their first estate.

Thirdly, at the birth of our physical bodies we have added to our intelligence and spirit another level of being. Man is the third of three levels of being. Man is matter, added upon intelligence or energy, and spirit or quality. Everything needed to interact on every level is now part of our being. We can continue to work, and do our part of God’s work or follow some other direction. The only question upon us is, will we continue to seek God in this final level of being and keep our second estate.

We were seeking God as intelligences, and as intelligences we are eternal, but we wanted to progress to become like God. As spirits he told us of the plan, that would give us everything we wanted, except a guarantee of eternal progression, but eternal progression is also possible if we would just keep seeking him, to do this one thing with every level of our being, seek him, as our work and glory also. Give him the only thing that has always been inherently ours, in trade for eternal life. We trade our energy for eternal life. Our energy is also called the Will. We trade that eternal part of us, our will, with him for eternal life.

God Bless,
Darren

Thank you for your kind remarks about the above statements,

The source for my understanding is from life long looking for related principles, and then by chance, and divine providence being put under the intense tutelage of one of Heavenly Fathers most intelligent sons, Bruce Wydner.

Adding upon my seeking with his perspective gave me some amazing insights. I'm guessing that my experience is unique.

I have tried to share Bruce Wydner's works on this forum, and they have been a hard read for most of you. But in them is a genius perspective.

The Energy, Quality and Matter parts of our being are fundamental to Bruce Wydners Language Course. http://s98822910.onlinehome.us/thousand ... h_1975.pdf as pictured in the cartoon on page 23, (attached).

Bruce Wydner was asked by Cleon Skousen to assist him in many things including the writing of his book, "The Majesty of God's Law." Cleon had a sightly different mission than Bruce, Bruce was working on his language course, and Cleon was working on teaching his perspective. The two of them did not actually spend a lot of time together, just several important one on one visits spanning from 1973 - 2005.

Cleon admitted to Bruce Wydner that Bruce had a greater gift to understand many important things. He told Bruce, "I can only study in English and much of that is propaganda." and he said to Bruce, that he could study in every language the things Cleon was searching for. Was Bruce more intelligent than Cleon or visa versa, I should not say. But I personally noticed that Cleon's message about the Constitution was incomplete and I did not get a full measure of understanding about the Constitution until I met Bruce Wydner. Nor will the Elders of the Church be able to save the Constitution until they can lay claim to the connection between traditional Saxon culture and the U.S. Constitution, otherwise all will be lost and the cleansing follow.

Bruce Wydner is among the most intelligent people I have ever met, and I have met many intelligent people over the years. And he is the most focused person I have ever met in my life.

I encourage you to read his works I have posted via the www link. And please ask any questions you would like, and I will do my best.

Also it is important to be an inductive learner to get what I got out of his works, deductive learners doubt things and learn little from Bruce's Works.

God Bless,
Darren

I was once told that the way spirits greet each other on the other side is through hugs... a way to feel each other's presence.

Anyone, hear any more on that?

serenitylala wrote:I was once told that the way spirits greet each other on the other side is through hugs... a way to feel each other's presence.

Anyone, hear any more on that?

nice, but seriously, who would know?
how do you hug aether?
its spirit/
maybe. i dunno.
i put that up there with the steve martin is a member mormon urban myths

serenitylala wrote:I was once told that the way spirits greet each other on the other side is through hugs... a way to feel each other's presence.

Anyone, hear any more on that?

serenitylala,

Actually from what I read, and I've read between 50-75 well written books on NDEs.
Most of the books were LDS and some not LDS. ( I chose to read Non LDS books on ndes to see the correlation of Gospel Principles and what degree or realm a person winds up in the Spirit Word, ie Prison or Paradise) and i've found some interesting things.

Righteous spirits are able to read non righteous spirits by their appearance of their spiritual bodies my carefully examining them. There are subtle markings depending on one's righteousness.

A good book that explains this in great detail is Brent Top's "Beyond Deaths Door". He is an LDS author. It is well researched and points out and weaves together what is going on in the spirit world right now, how no one is out of place, and one knows exactly where they belong upon arriving there automatically.

The Spirit world is in perfect order.

Brent Top even cites Emmanuel Swedenborg alot who was label a heretic by the Lutheran church in the 1700s because he saw the spirit world often, conversed with Angels there in different realms etc, and everything he reported to the church leaders was scoffed at and dismissed, but guess what,what he saw was in sync perfectly with the Restored Gospel- that happened a century later.

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2052 ... ath_s_Door
http://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Deaths-Doo ... ewpoints=1

An NDE that explains the point further is by a LDS lady Ranelle Wallace, read her's here.

She saw a guy friend of her's in the spirit world who had passed and he approached to embrace her, but was stopped in doing so by her grandmother who already had embraced her.
Her guy friend was still repenting for things he had done while on earth and was forbidden to touch her. Here's her story:

http://www.near-death.com/wallace.html.

Thats all I have for right now kiddo.

Oh btw I ordered that book you recommended.


njb

notjamesbond003.5 wrote:

serenitylala wrote:I was once told that the way spirits greet each other on the other side is through hugs... a way to feel each other's presence.

Anyone, hear any more on that?

serenitylala,

Actually from what I read, and I've read between 50-75 well written books on NDEs.
Most of the books were LDS and some not LDS. ( I chose to read Non LDS books on ndes to see the correlation of Gospel Principles and what degree or realm a person winds up in the Spirit Word, ie Prison or Paradise) and i've found some interesting things.

Righteous spirits are able to read non righteous spirits by their appearance of their spiritual bodies my carefully examining them. There are subtle markings depending on one's righteousness.

A good book that explains this in great detail is Brent Top's "Beyond Deaths Door". He is an LDS author. It is well researched and points out and weaves together what is going on in the spirit world right now, how no one is out of place, and one knows exactly where they belong upon arriving there automatically.

The Spirit world is in perfect order.

Brent Top even cites Emmanuel Swedenborg alot who was label a heretic by the Catholic church in the 1700s because he saw the spirit world often, conversed with Angels there in different realms etc, and everything he reported to the church leaders was scoffed at and dismissed, but guess what,what he saw was in sync perfectly with the Restored Gospel, that happened a century later.

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2052 ... ath_s_Door
http://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Deaths-Doo ... ewpoints=1

An NDE that explains the point further is by a LDS lady Ranalle Wallace, read her's here.

She saw a guy friend of her's in the spirit world who had passed and he approached to embrace her, but was stopped in doing so by her grandmother who already had embraced her.
Her guy friend was still repenting for things he had done while on earth and was forbidden to touch her. Here's her story:

http://www.near-death.com/wallace.html.

Thats all I have for right now kiddo.

Oh btw I ordered that book you recommended.


njb

Njb

Thank you so much! I appreciate the info! You are an awesome friend.

Oh and you'll really like the Yorgasen book. There was a time when it was so hard to get that some corrupt people were trying to sell copies at $500 a piece.

Serenity