LDS Freedom Forum

Posted: **January 4th, 2010, 3:28 pm**

reese wrote:Paitriotsaint and nogreaterlove, you guys are making me depressed. I can't wrap my head around the fact that the Lord expects us to have a exclusive, intimate relationship with our spouse here on earth, but would not allow it in heaven. I'm just very happy with my exclusive marriage here on earth, I can't bear the thought of it not continuing in the same manner, into eternity. And I guess I don't see how this is selfishness.

Please don't feel bad Reese. I could be totally wrong.

Even if I am right that doesn't mean that every person will be required to participate in plural marriage. Suffice it to say, if you are doing everything you can on this earth to honor your marriage covenant, the Lord will ensure everything turns out right.

He will give you a testimony of the law if it is ever required that you should live it. Just like he gave you a testimony of tithing, the BOM, or any other Gospel teaching.

Don't get down about it. This is a tough topic to handle, but the Lord will never leave you hanging!

Posted: **January 4th, 2010, 3:34 pm**

you guys are making me depressed. I can't wrap my head around the fact that the Lord expects us to have a exclusive, intimate relationship with our spouse here on earth, but would not allow it in heaven.

Have you ever listened to someone worrying about something that they have no comprehension of? You have a full comprehension of the subject, and know there worries are unfounded. You try to console them by telling them, you are worrying about something that you have no need to worry about. You tell them by the time the event happens, they will see how smoothly it went, look back at their silly worrying and have a good laugh.

I will bet you, that our Heavenly Father would tell you the same thing about this. QUIT WORRYING! When the time comes, you will look back and think, what was all of the fuss about?
Do you believe in Christ? Him crucified for the sins of the world? Do you keep your temple covenants? If so, you are on the right track and will be prepared for anything that God teaches you or expects of you.

Maybe you are trying to learn algebra, when you still have no mastered basic math? I am still at the basic math level myself.

Posted: **January 4th, 2010, 3:34 pm**

I was reading a book called gospel standards by Heber J Grant. He tells about when he presided over the Tooele stake. He said that there were only two men who asked to practice plural marriage while he presided. He denied both requests. He also said that there was never a time that more than 2% of the Utah population practiced polygamy. Surely there were more than 2% of the church membership that were 'worthy' of salvation.

Posted: **January 4th, 2010, 3:37 pm**

BlueSky

This is the point of a conversation where contention is setting in. Lets not go there.

Posted: **January 4th, 2010, 3:43 pm**

NoGreaterLove wrote: Have you ever listened to someone worrying about something that they have no comprehension of? You have a full comprehension of the subject, and know there worries are unfounded. You try to console them by telling them, you are worrying about something that you have no need to worry about. You tell them by the time the event happens, they will see how smoothly it went, look back at their silly worrying and have a good laugh.

.

I wish I could let it go more than anything in the world. Believe me I know the Lord is probably very weary of my feelings on this. He has however given me a few insights on this subject, of which I am eternally grateful to Him. I have had prayers answered, after stugggling through prayer and study for 15 + years

, I've had to earn the answers but I'm thankful for them. I just can't allow myself to dwell on this subject to much or I head down a road best avoided for me.

Posted: **January 4th, 2010, 3:46 pm**

reese wrote:I was reading a book called gospel standards by Heber J Grant. He tells about when he presided over the Tooele stake. He said that there were only two men who asked to practice plural marriage while he presided. He denied both requests. He also said that there was never a time that more than 2% of the Utah population practiced polygamy. Surely there were more than 2% of the church membership that were 'worthy' of salvation.

I agree that God does not intend to exalt only a few of his children. I think it will surprise us how many actually make it. As Moses 1:39 teaches his work and glory is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. He will not fail in that task.

On the other hand though, Christ taught there are many mansions prepared for his followers. God is willing to give us what we are willing to receive. I think differing exaltations will be a reflection of that idea. Those willing to receive more will get more. Those content with less will have less.

It often seems like the gospel works that way. God doesn't withhold blessings from us........rather we choose to follow our own path and reject the offered blessings.

As NGL so wisely said, believe in Christ and keep your covenants. Everything will turn out fine. We all just need to have faith in the idea that Heavenly Father created us so that we might have joy, and eternal joy will be our reward if we follow his plan.

Posted: **January 4th, 2010, 3:49 pm**

reese

I do not pretend to know that each individual will be required to live polygamy at some point. It does not matter to me. I will do whatever the Lord directs. I would do the same if I were a woman, because I completely trust Christ.

My mind has been so polluted by customs, environment, socialization etc. on this earth that I will not be surprised at anything I am taught which seems contrary to my current belief system. The secret to me believing a new idea is, who is the source? As long as I know the source is Christ, I will believe and follow.

Posted: **January 4th, 2010, 3:53 pm**

reese
you are not alone in your dilema. My wife does the same thing. She brings the subject up, we discuss it, she gets discouraged and upset, then we have to put it under the rug. I think I have finally convinced her that I could care less about polygamy at this time. The only desire I have it to follow Christ. If he says polygamy for you my dear boy, then polygamy it is. Otherwise I am a content man.

Posted: **January 4th, 2010, 3:56 pm**

NoGreaterLove wrote:reese

I do not pretend to know that each individual will be required to live polygamy at some point. It does not matter to me. I will do whatever the Lord directs. I would do the same if I were a woman, because I completely trust Christ.

My mind has been so polluted by customs, environment, socialization etc. on this earth that I will not be surprised at anything I am taught which seems contrary to my current belief system. The secret to me believing a new idea is, who is the source? As long as I know the source is Christ, I will believe and follow.

Agreed. My problem with this is it goes way beyond me holding on to social customs. My whole, entire being revolts against this. It literally has a physical(not pleasant

) effect on me. I give my all to my husband. I want his all in return. I could not be happy with anything less. We are very much one in all things. I can't fit any other women into that relationship, if you know what I mean.

Posted: **January 4th, 2010, 4:01 pm**

Agreed. My problem with this is it goes way beyond me holding on to social customs. My whole, entire being revolts against this. It literally has a physical(not pleasant ) effect on me. I give my all to my husband. I want his all in return. I could not be happy with anything less. We are very much one in all things. I can't fit any other women into that relationship, if you know what I mean.

If I did not know better, I would say you were my wife. She has said the same things.
It is between you and Christ. That is what it boils down to. In certain ways, we (men) have to share you with Christ in a much more personal and intimate way. You worship him, you follow him above us, you share the power of creation with him by housing his spirits. So if you look at it that way, you can understand that you are not the only ones sharing someone.

Posted: **January 4th, 2010, 4:03 pm**

NoGreaterLove wrote:reese
you are not alone in your dilema. My wife does the same thing. She brings the subject up, we discuss it, she gets discouraged and upset, then we have to put it under the rug. I think I have finally convinced her that I could care less about polygamy at this time. The only desire I have it to follow Christ. If he says polygamy for you my dear boy, then polygamy it is. Otherwise I am a content man.

I am sorry for her. I know where she is. My husband has endeared himself to me by telling me that if he is commanded by Christ to practice polygamy then he will only do it if I give the go ahead. He says he would rather lose everything rather than break my heart. I know that it is probably not entirely true, but I love him for it.

Posted: **January 4th, 2010, 4:05 pm**

NoGreaterLove wrote:
Agreed. My problem with this is it goes way beyond me holding on to social customs. My whole, entire being revolts against this. It literally has a physical(not pleasant ) effect on me. I give my all to my husband. I want his all in return. I could not be happy with anything less. We are very much one in all things. I can't fit any other women into that relationship, if you know what I mean.
If I did not know better, I would say you were my wife. She has said the same things.
It is between you and Christ. That is what it boils down to. In certain ways, we (men) have to share you with Christ in a much more personal and intimate way. You worship him, you follow him above us, you share the power of creation with him by housing his spirits. So if you look at it that way, you can understand that you are not the only ones sharing someone.

True but we must also share you with Him too. But that is ok, the best marriages have three individuals it them, the husband, the wife, and the Lord.

Posted: **January 4th, 2010, 4:18 pm**

NoGreaterLove wrote:BlueSky

This is the point of a conversation where contention is setting in. Lets not go there.

If you don't want to address anything I've said, that's perfectly fine by me. I don't know why you're calling the contention card, though... trying to shut me up? Sorry, I'm not feeling the contention. Maybe you get more riled up than I do.

Posted: **January 4th, 2010, 4:30 pm**

Edit *removed from a sincere desire to erase sarcasm from my life

Posted: **January 4th, 2010, 4:37 pm**

reese wrote:
NoGreaterLove wrote:
Agreed. My problem with this is it goes way beyond me holding on to social customs. My whole, entire being revolts against this. It literally has a physical(not pleasant ) effect on me. I give my all to my husband. I want his all in return. I could not be happy with anything less. We are very much one in all things. I can't fit any other women into that relationship, if you know what I mean.
If I did not know better, I would say you were my wife. She has said the same things.
It is between you and Christ. That is what it boils down to. In certain ways, we (men) have to share you with Christ in a much more personal and intimate way. You worship him, you follow him above us, you share the power of creation with him by housing his spirits. So if you look at it that way, you can understand that you are not the only ones sharing someone.

True but we must also share you with Him too. But that is ok, the best marriages have three individuals it them, the husband, the wife, and the Lord.

Reese,

I think your doing just fine. Let other people covet "your" marriage, and you continue to love your husband with all your heart.

You don't have to prepare yourself for anything but him and your children. Let your mind be at peace about polygamy.

My wife used to tease me, while driving, she'd see a pretty young girl walking down a sidewalk, point her out and ask "How'd you like her for your second wife?" I'd play along, slow down say something like yeeeeeh, and she'd motion me on with what I described to tease her, a "wicked" smile and a "terse hand wave! Go on, she'd say, it ain't time yet--- "I'll" let you know when---

I know a former bishop, his first wife died of cancer, his second in a car accident, now he's married to his third. I've heard him comment several times "I'm very happy I didn't have to deal with them all at once---"

It ain't time yet----- Besides that, when it is time,---you get to pick em!

Bob

Posted: **January 4th, 2010, 4:40 pm**

Polygamy actually does make sense biologically. In mammals, the larger the male in proportion to the female the more likely the male will have a large heard of females. However, human males are only a little larger than females (in hieght and muscle mass) and that would indicate the ideal would be only two or three wives. Male scent (in regards to pheramones) is repulsive to other males -- in fact it is slightly repulsive to females the further away form ovulation they are. However, pheramones from females actually attract other females. So a house with several females will be less contentious than if you had a house with one female and several males. And on tht note, when women live together their ovulatory cycles syncronize. I remember watching a documentary on polygamy in which the wives said they try to all be pregnant at the same time since it makes sharing tasks easier when the babies are born. Psychologically Freud said that the relationships females forge with each other are often more meaningful to the woman than their relationships to males. So females seem to want to be around other females -- I have seen many instances where women with a bunch of small kids get together and the stress level actually goes down for both women. It's called sharing. And lastly, males can reproduce for years and years -- I know one individual who was conceived when his dad was 77. I used to work with a guy whose great grandfather fought in the Revolutionary War -- all his male line were older guys married to young women. Females can only reproduce from mid-teens to late thirties for the most part (some exceptions, but these women are in the minority unless they use medical intervention -- and even then the offspring of women in their mid-forties run a greater chance of problems).

There are otehr bioligical considerations but I will leave it at this for now.

Posted: **January 4th, 2010, 4:57 pm**

I have entered into the new and everlasting covenant but I'm not polygamous. Don't tell me that means polygamy, you're rewriting D&C 132 to suit your desires.

Posted: **January 4th, 2010, 5:07 pm**

I give my all to my husband. I want his all in return. I could not be happy with anything less. We are very much one in all things.

That's the covenant. Good on ya!

Don't get discouraged. The Lord will not require anyone to live this law in order to be exalted that doesn't want to. I still maintain that Isaiah says "ONLY let us be called by thy name." Gee I wonder why he made that distinction?

Ie. EWEEEE YUCK! No sir, just give me your name to take away my reproach, but I am NOT doing the attachment thingy, so if that's what yer after, see ya!

I suspect polygamy is a test now as much as it ever was, remember Abraham didn't have to go through with it.

The new age crap that people are spreading here is bunk. Why be sealed at all to each other? Why not just be sealed to the church? Why not be like catholics and the women can lust after and all be sealed to Christ?

If you women were smart you would threaten to be sealed to Christ or Joseph Smith etc... if this ever goes. And the doctrinal basis for this is as strong as for polygamy and those who have researched polygamy here know it! A more worthy exalted man can steal your wives.

So if those lustful jerks start drooling over this silly once practiced law, give it back to them. Tell them you're going to live it all right, just not with them!

Posted: **January 4th, 2010, 5:14 pm**

NoGreaterLove wrote: It is between you and Christ. That is what it boils down to.

I'd put it like this. “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind,” He said. “This is the first and great commandment.”

Are you prepared to do whatever the Lord asks, having faith that it will be what's best for you?

Posted: **January 4th, 2010, 5:20 pm**

Please pay more attention to the covenant. Wives give themselves to their husbands. Husbands give themselves to the Lord.

Your desire of complete mutual "giving" is nullified by the Priesthood and the covenant wherewith you are sealed. Wives give their all to their husbands inasmuch as their husbands give their all to the Lord. The covenant is not reciprocal among the married parties.

I think that the more violent your reaction against this eternal and celestial standard, the more you should seek the Lord's assistance in coming to accept it. It will be required at the hands of those qualified for it in the Lord's due time, and as much as it might not seem this way to you now, you will one day want to be qualified to receive it. Covet not your husband, for he is the Lord's.

I shall reiterate that the fullness of celestial marriage is plural celestial marriage. An exaltation which contains a plural marriage is greater than an exaltation that contains a single marriage. The Lord God is exalted with a plurality of wives; if we truly want to be like Him, we must come to terms with this eternal truth, and with the fullness of the celestial law.

Posted: **January 4th, 2010, 5:27 pm**

The new age crap that people are spreading here is bunk. Why be sealed at all to each other? Why not just be sealed to the church? Why not be like catholics and the women can lust after and all be sealed to Christ?

What are you talking about? To whom are you referring? You kind of went off in a direction and I am not sure what you are getting at?

Please explain.

Posted: **January 4th, 2010, 5:29 pm**

A more worthy exalted man can steal your wives.

This is a bold statement. Do you have doctrinal proof of it?

Posted: **January 4th, 2010, 5:35 pm**

My wife used to tease me, while driving, she'd see a pretty young girl walking down a sidewalk, point her out and ask "How'd you like her for your second wife?"

My wife plays a game with me to. She tells me I can have all the wives I want at any time. Just one catch...........................She won't be one of them.

At least I think she is playing????????????

Posted: **January 4th, 2010, 5:40 pm**

http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideN ... 94610aRCRD

• Read D&C 42:22 with class members. Explain that this commandment applies equally to men and women. What does it mean to love a husband or wife with all one’s heart? What does it mean to cleave to a husband or wife and none else?

*

President Spencer W. Kimball explained:
*

“When the Lord says all thy heart, it allows for no sharing nor dividing nor depriving. …
*

“The words none else eliminate everyone and everything. The spouse then becomes preeminent in the life of the husband or wife, and neither social life nor occupational life nor political life nor any other interest nor person nor thing shall ever take precedence over the companion spouse. …
*

“Marriage presupposes total allegiance and total fidelity. Each spouse takes the partner with the understanding that he or she gives totally to the spouse all the heart, strength, loyalty, honor, and affection, with all dignity. Any divergence is sin; any sharing of the heart is transgression. As we should have ‘an eye single to the glory of God,’ so should we have an eye, an ear, a heart single to the marriage and the spouse and family” (Faith Precedes the Miracle [1972], 142–43).
*

President Gordon B. Hinckley gave this simple counsel to married couples: “Be fiercely loyal one to another” (Ensign, Feb. 1999, 4).

...
6. Plural marriage

The following information is provided to help you if class members have questions about the practice of plural marriage. It should not be the focus of the lesson.
The Lord’s purpose for commanding His people to practice plural marriage

In the Book of Mormon, the prophet Jacob taught: “For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife. … [But] if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things” (Jacob 2:27, 30). At various times throughout biblical history, the Lord commanded people to practice plural marriage. For example, He gave this command to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, and Solomon (D&C 132:1).
The revelation to practice plural marriage in this dispensation

In this dispensation, the Lord commanded some of the early Saints to practice plural marriage. The Prophet Joseph Smith and those closest to him, including Brigham Young and Heber C. Kimball, were challenged by this command, but they obeyed it. Church leaders regulated the practice. Those entering into it had to be authorized to do so, and the marriages had to be performed through the sealing power of the priesthood.
The Church’s position on plural marriage today

In 1890, President Wilford Woodruff received a revelation that the leaders of the Church should cease teaching the practice of plural marriage (Official Declaration 1, pages 291–92 in the Doctrine and Covenants; see also the excerpts from addresses by President Woodruff that immediately follow Official Declaration 1).

In 1998, President Gordon B. Hinckley made the following statement about the Church’s position on plural marriage: “This Church has nothing whatever to do with those practicing polygamy. They are not members of this Church. … If any of our members are found to be practicing plural marriage, they are excommunicated, the most serious penalty the Church can impose. Not only are those so involved in direct violation of the civil law, they are in violation of the law of this Church” (in Conference Report, Oct. 1998, 92; or Ensign, Nov. 1998, 71).

Posted: **January 4th, 2010, 5:44 pm**

When two teachings seem to contradict each other, neither is wrong. It is up to us to seek the Lord out to understand what our misunderstanding is.

LDS Freedom Forum

Polygamy

Re: Polygamy

Re: Polygamy

Re: Polygamy

Re: Polygamy

Re: Polygamy

Re: Polygamy

Re: Polygamy

Re: Polygamy

Re: Polygamy

Re: Polygamy

Re: Polygamy

Re: Polygamy

Re: Polygamy

Re: Polygamy

Re: Polygamy

Re: Polygamy

Re: Polygamy

Re: Polygamy

Re: Polygamy

Re: Polygamy

Re: Polygamy

Re: Polygamy

Re: Polygamy

Re: Polygamy

Re: Polygamy