LDS Freedom Forum

Original_Intent wrote:I'll live it when and if commanded. That's all the "preparation" or thought I need to give the subject.

I just found it odd that someone brought this up out of the blue in another thread that they were "preparing" to live this law when it is brought back. I'd focus on the commandments which we have now, perfect yourself in that and then when polygamy comes back it will not be an issue for you or your wife.

There you go. That was his initial post. Silly guy, you read slower!!!!! LOL

bobhenstra wrote:

zionlist.com wrote: Just some questions for the people here. I want everyone to get better. Please do so.

I will bud, but it'll be done at my speed! I think your a young pup full of vim and vigor all excited about discussing your "aha" moments, and your not near careful enough about how you word the topics you want to discuss. Then you make accusations that people simply are not reading what it is you are actually saying, but the fact is we are. There are many very knowledgeable scriptorians here.

I consider myself well versed in gospel scholarship, however there are those here that think otherwise. I don't mind, I don't argue with them, I attempt to point out my differences in a kind and casual way (most of the time) and let them continue on with their beliefs. If they choose to argue I simply refuse to continue the conversation.

I suggest you slow down a bit, take a deep breath and try again! Next time don't let your fingers type faster than your brain. Your fingers don't reason as well as your mind.

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... =19&t=5645


Bob

If undue haste is not acceptable Bob, then delay is inexcusable.

I'm sorry that we seem to now understand ZL is young, because had he told me he was not I would have believed him because his words are wiser than his years. If you don't like the way ZL operates or at his speed either, then kindly move your walker to the side or you will get run over. I'd hate to see you get hurt. And I will remind you that the Lord has frequently used very young and flexible -- that is to say, the less obstinate and sinewy men to get his work done as it seems the older ones, who are so dead set in their ways, cannot depart from their lifetime of "wisdom" enough to hearken to the counsels of God and get the changes done that need to be made.

zionlist.com / zionlist.com's wife: carry on, I have yet to read anything from you that I would call objectionable. And if you ever visit vancouver island, my wife and I would be pleased to make your acquaintance.

On second thought, just your wife!!!

Nan wrote:Umm you actually attacked personal worthiness of anyone that doesn't want to live polygamy. And insinuated that if you don't want to live it you are not as good as people who do want to live it. And can't be as exalted. Since it is a commandment to NOT live it, I am supposed to not want to live it.

I wouldn't say that we can't want to live a law that's not commanded. What about the law of consecration? I doubt many of us have a moral dilemma with this law and I would bet more than a few of us have had the desire to live this law, which brought so many of the past saints in the scriptures happiness. I think we can want to live a righteous law even when we can't yet.

ithink wrote:

bobhenstra wrote:

zionlist.com wrote: Just some questions for the people here. I want everyone to get better. Please do so.

I will bud, but it'll be done at my speed! I think your a young pup full of vim and vigor all excited about discussing your "aha" moments, and your not near careful enough about how you word the topics you want to discuss. Then you make accusations that people simply are not reading what it is you are actually saying, but the fact is we are. There are many very knowledgeable scriptorians here.

I consider myself well versed in gospel scholarship, however there are those here that think otherwise. I don't mind, I don't argue with them, I attempt to point out my differences in a kind and casual way (most of the time) and let them continue on with their beliefs. If they choose to argue I simply refuse to continue the conversation.




I suggest you slow down a bit, take a deep breath and try again! Next time don't let your fingers type faster than your brain. Your fingers don't reason as well as your mind.

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... =19&t=5645


Bob

If undue haste is not acceptable Bob, then delay is inexcusable.

I'm sorry that we seem to now understand ZL is young, because had he told me he was not I would have believed him because his words are wiser than his years. If you don't like the way ZL operates or at his speed either, then kindly move your walker to the side or you will get run over. I'd hate to see you get hurt. And I will remind you that the Lord has frequently used very young and flexible -- that is to say, the less obstinate and sinewy men to get his work done as it seems the older ones, who are so dead set in their ways, cannot depart from their lifetime of "wisdom" enough to hearken to the counsels of God and get the changes done that need to be made.

zionlist.com / zionlist.com's wife: carry on, I have yet to read anything from you that I would call objectionable. And if you ever visit vancouver island, my wife and I would be pleased to make your acquaintance.

As you wish---

Bob

zionlist.com wrote:

Original_Intent wrote:I'll live it when and if commanded. That's all the "preparation" or thought I need to give the subject.

I just found it odd that someone brought this up out of the blue in another thread that they were "preparing" to live this law when it is brought back. I'd focus on the commandments which we have now, perfect yourself in that and then when polygamy comes back it will not be an issue for you or your wife.

There you go. That was his initial post. Silly guy, you read slower!!!!! LOL

I should just read period! I missed that post. I don't read all of them. Too many and too little time. But still.... the point is the same regarding the "preparing" portion. It is "odd" that you're saving money for a polygamous marriage. Polygamy, when practiced, has always been a calling. I've never heard a prophet or apostle say they sought after their calling like you appear to be seeking after polygamy. I've never heard one suggest that while they were young they saved their money so they could be an apostle and travel the world preaching the gospel. Quite the contrary. We should take that as an example. However, my disclaimer , if the Holy Ghost has directed you to do this then have at it and good luck!

Shadow, read Abraham 1, he sought for his appointment.

Original_Intent wrote:No there is nothing wrong with being ready.

I found it odd that ZL brought up the issue in another thread that "my wife and I are preparing to live the law of polygamy when it is brought back".

That's an odd thing to bring up in conversation. I think many hear (myself included) got the impression that there was a specific focus to this law rather than the more general "be ready to do whatever God commands when he commands".

What does one do to "prepare to live the law of polygamy"? It's just an odd statement.

To be prepared for polygamy, you prepare your heart to accept it when called to do so. There are some on this forum who would have a great deal of emotional turmoil to deal with if asked today to live that law. We can prepare ourselves by understanding polygamy as best as possible without actually practicing it. Then when asked--and IF asked--we could do the Lord's will immediately without hesitation.

As you wish---

Bob

Bob, you crack me up. So glad you're here. (That H1N1 immunization got you using a walker now?)

SwissMrs&Pitchfire wrote:Shadow, read Abraham 1, he sought for his appointment.

Just real quick from modern prophets and apostles...

"Joseph Smith went into the grove merely wanting to know which church to join - not seeking to be called a seer, revelator, translator and prophet." -Neal A. Maxwell

"Gordon B. Hinckley did not seek the many calls and assignments that came to him..." Boyd K. Packer

"I did not seek such a call but have humbly tried to be worthy of that trust and privilege of being His representative." Russell M. Nelson

"In the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, one takes the place to which one is duly called, which place one neither seeks nor declines." Dieter F. Uchtdorf


Yes, we seek after good things, we seek after Christ, but we don't seek callings. Maybe polygamy is more in the lines of a mission call, and not a church calling per se. I don't know, but I do know I probably shouldn't seek after something that will get me ex'd right now. If it won't get me ex'd and the proper authority calls me to polygamy, I'll bite that bullet at that time. Now isn't the time.

roserum wrote:

Original_Intent wrote:No there is nothing wrong with being ready.

I found it odd that ZL brought up the issue in another thread that "my wife and I are preparing to live the law of polygamy when it is brought back".

That's an odd thing to bring up in conversation. I think many hear (myself included) got the impression that there was a specific focus to this law rather than the more general "be ready to do whatever God commands when he commands".

What does one do to "prepare to live the law of polygamy"? It's just an odd statement.

To be prepared for polygamy, you prepare your heart to accept it when called to do so. There are some on this forum who would have a great deal of emotional turmoil to deal with if asked today to live that law. We can prepare ourselves by understanding polygamy as best as possible without actually practicing it. Then when asked--and IF asked--we could do the Lord's will immediately without hesitation.

If we live long enough to survive the tribulation and cleansing of the church, which isn't that far off, we will live to see the restoration of all celestial laws including the law of plural marriage.

There is, however, no specific preparation for living the law of plural marriage other than being pure, holy and submissive to the will of the Father. I am not preoccupied with thinking about plural marriage because I am not required to live it. In fact, I am forbidden to practice it. I can still know and understand that plural marriage is a holy institution and ordinance revealed from heaven to the Prophet of this dispensation. He was commanded to live this law or be slain.

I do despise those modern mormons who really have no understanding of the church they profess membership in and who want to create a new, more worldy acceptable version and deny the founders of this kingdom who were willing to sacrifice all to bring forth these holy truths. Nothing has changed. Its the same church and gospel that the Lord restored through Joseph 180 years ago.

Maybe in the future the government will force the church to abandon other practices and ordinances. Maybe we'll be forbidden to operate Temples or pay tithing or even meet to partake of the sacrament. But God forbid that there will be fools a few years down the road that will argue that those things were only temporary and are no longer part of the gospel.

SwissMrs&Pitchfire wrote:Shadow, read Abraham 1, he sought for his appointment.

Abraham sought for his appointment and ordination to the priesthood of God, not for his calling as a prophet. There is a significant difference between seeking for (and preparing for) callings and seeking for (and preparing for) the blessings of an ordinance.

Regarding the seeking of a calling. It is our duty to do as much as we can to be of as much utility to the Lord should He call upon us. This means that we all must aspire to the worthiness, knowledge, and wisdom of the apostles without actually coveting the office. The Lord will do with His prepared servants as seemeth Him good, and it is not necessarily an indictment or failure if one is never called to a particular calling.

The callings wherewith we are called in normal Church service are often for ourselves at least as much as they are for those we serve, and the same is true at the general level. I believe that there are many members equipped to be apostles, seventies, or other GAs, but that they are not called not for any lack of worthiness, not for any lack of knowledge, but merely because they do not need the experience, and they will be better taught elsewhere.

To that end, and as that relates to this topic overall, we are to prepare to live and receive the fullness of the law, just as we are to prepare ourselves to live or receive the greatest callings in the Church, to the best of our abilities, so that the Lord may utilize us His servants in whatever way seemeth Him good.

The point of this whole discussion is preparation, so that we are, to the best of our abilities, never the bottleneck for the Lord's preferred usage of our persons. I don't believe any of us can live that perfectly, but I think it ought to be the goal of all to try.

Oh I wasn't arguing the point, I loath office seekers. Just pointing out the reference to someone that sought after his appointment. I would add that much I have read about the second anointing requires one in many cases to "ask and you shall receive." I do suspect that if anyone sought after an office with a pure heart that the request would be both righteous and granted in time and in wisdom assuming the individual met the Lord's requirements.

To quote Jesse Chapel, "I'm a woodwork kind of guy."(as in, blend into the woodwork in the back corner)

Abraham didn't seek office. He sought blessings and righteousness.


Callings exist to give us the opportunity to serve others. If we are humbly seeking after righteousness and the blessings of the Lord, he will put us where we can do the most good. No need to seek position.......these things will flow unto us without cumpulsory means if we are doing what we should.

Abraham wasn't a great patriarch because he desired high position. He was a great patriarch because he hungered and thirsted after righteousness and was willing to submit to the will of the Lord in all things.

Abraham sought for his appointment.

roserum wrote:

As you wish---

Bob

Bob, you crack me up. So glad you're here. (That H1N1 immunization got you using a walker now?)

Not yet Roserum, thanks for your comments, however, I do have a twinge in my brain area, my mind keeps leaving me and I have to chase it down, my brain seems to resent the return of my mind, it's then I get that pain in the a-- er, rear end! However, I'm getting slow of foot, long in the tooth, seems to take a bit longer each time--aaah age, can't live with it- can't live without it--hmmmm- It's obvious I'm getting old because of that flu shot-- isn't it? How is it I was getting old before the flu shot? Hmmm, seems I need to consult with the younger generation who know's --all!

Last night I fired off a message to President Monson, another elderly soul who often gives advice-- now and then. Seeking suggestions on ways of getting out of the way of the young pups here that insist we decrepit senors make room for them--- Haven't heard back--yet!--Waiting patiently,-- an advantage of age--waiting, not patience!

My greatest prayers are for the all wise, all knowing youngsters of the world,-- and this site--

Bob

zionlist.com wrote:Regarding the seeking of a calling. It is our duty to do as much as we can to be of as much utility to the Lord should He call upon us. This means that we all must aspire to the worthiness, knowledge, and wisdom of the apostles without actually coveting the office. The Lord will do with His prepared servants as seemeth Him good, and it is not necessarily an indictment or failure if one is never called to a particular calling.

The callings wherewith we are called in normal Church service are often for ourselves at least as much as they are for those we serve, and the same is true at the general level. I believe that there are many members equipped to be apostles, seventies, or other GAs, but that they are not called not for any lack of worthiness, not for any lack of knowledge, but merely because they do not need the experience, and they will be better taught elsewhere.

To that end, and as that relates to this topic overall, we are to prepare to live and receive the fullness of the law, just as we are to prepare ourselves to live or receive the greatest callings in the Church, to the best of our abilities, so that the Lord may utilize us His servants in whatever way seemeth Him good.

The point of this whole discussion is preparation, so that we are, to the best of our abilities, never the bottleneck for the Lord's preferred usage of our persons. I don't believe any of us can live that perfectly, but I think it ought to be the goal of all to try.

A very nice properly reasoned response, thank you!

Bob

SwissMrs&Pitchfire wrote:Abraham sought for his appointment.

Satan sought for higher office, he sought the office of Savior. When Jehovah, who also sought the office of Savior was called, then Satan become angry, not humble, and "openly" rebelled. Did Heavenly Father know what would happen? Was there a need and a purpose for a rebellion? If there were no rebellion, who on this earth in mortality would supply the opposition in all things that "must be?" Was wisdom, or lack of, and agency involved in all the choices? I believe so!

If Abraham had not received the appointment he sought, might he have rebelled?

Bob

You guys are just talking past one another----

bobhenstra wrote: .

I consider myself well versed in gospel scholarship, however there are those here that think otherwise. I don't mind, I don't argue with them, I attempt to point out my differences in a kind and casual way (most of the time) and let them continue on with their beliefs. If they choose to argue I simply refuse to continue the conversation.

.

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... =19&t=5645


Bob

I think your awsome Bob. I definitley think your 2cents is worth a lot. I read part of the post you just put a link up to a month or so ago. I'm going to start from the beginning and reread it. Lots of things to think about there. If I remember right, you said if we had further questions we could e-mail them to you? I may be doing so.

I wonder what would happen if I just kept posting "Abraham sought for his appointment."?

I get such a kick out of all the people that responded to that with extrapolations of office seeking etc... Oh the tangled webs we weave.

I suspect that the responses would grow more bitter and frustrated that I wasn't getting their point, a point in response to a phantom post (as all I ever posted was pretty much a direct quote from Abraham and then went on to explain my sin in doing so so as not to be mistaken further in what I didn't say).

How can productive discourse ever occur here when what is written has to compete with what is not? Sometimes at a loss.

Well I am at a loss, that's for sure.

SwissMrs&Pitchfire wrote:I wonder what would happen if I just kept posting "Abraham sought for his appointment."?

I get such a kick out of all the people that responded to that with extrapolations of office seeking etc... Oh the tangled webs we weave.

I suspect that the responses would grow more bitter and frustrated that I wasn't getting their point, a point in response to a phantom post (as all I ever posted was pretty much a direct quote from Abraham and then went on to explain my sin in doing so so as not to be mistaken further in what I didn't say).

How can productive discourse ever occur here when what is written has to compete with what is not? Sometimes at a loss.

Well I am at a loss, that's for sure.

At a loss??? Pitch, quit sinning--Dang!

Bob

reese wrote:

bobhenstra wrote: .

I consider myself well versed in gospel scholarship, however there are those here that think otherwise. I don't mind, I don't argue with them, I attempt to point out my differences in a kind and casual way (most of the time) and let them continue on with their beliefs. If they choose to argue I simply refuse to continue the conversation.

.

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... =19&t=5645


Bob

I think your awsome Bob. I definitley think your 2cents is worth a lot. I read part of the post you just put a link up to a month or so ago. I'm going to start from the beginning and reread it. Lots of things to think about there. If I remember right, you said if we had further questions we could e-mail them to you? I may be doing so.

As you wish---

Bob

bobhenstra wrote:

roserum wrote:

As you wish---

Bob

Bob, you crack me up. So glad you're here. (That H1N1 immunization got you using a walker now?)

Not yet Roserum, thanks for your comments, however, I do have a twinge in my brain area, my mind keeps leaving me and I have to chase it down, my brain seems to resent the return of my mind, it's then I get that pain in the a-- er, rear end! However, I'm getting slow of foot, long in the tooth, seems to take a bit longer each time--aaah age, can't live with it- can't live without it--hmmmm- It's obvious I'm getting old because of that flu shot-- isn't it? How is it I was getting old before the flu shot? Hmmm, seems I need to consult with the younger generation who know's --all!

Last night I fired off a message to President Monson, another elderly soul who often gives advice-- now and then. Seeking suggestions on ways of getting out of the way of the young pups here that insist we decrepit senors make room for them--- Haven't heard back--yet!--Waiting patiently,-- an advantage of age--waiting, not patience!

My greatest prayers are for the all wise, all knowing youngsters of the world,-- and this site--

Bob

Can't tell you how many times I knew better than my parents and had to eat crow! You've earned your place--the right to drive slow down the road with a line of frustrated young impatient people behind you on their way to fulfill their oh, so important lives. Make 'em drive around and then wave politely when you pass them later stuck in a ditch.

Reminds me of a hilarious moment with my grandpa I hope you all don't mind I share. We were on the way to the temple for my sister's wedding, grandpa was driving us, exactly at the speed limit, and every time someone would pass us, he'd say, "I'll bet they're going ___ miles over the speed limit." We started getting close and my grandpa started getting nervous about being late and then we saw a sign that said we were quite a bit farther away than he thought and gramps hit the gas and next thing I knew we were going 80 on a two lane 65 mph highway. Passed up the last 3 cars that had passed us, too! Guess you ole' folk can get some speed on if ya need to, eh?

As to the Eve's curse bit, perhaps a quote from Brigham Young will suffice:

True there is a curse upon the woman that is not upon the man, namely, that "her whole affections shall be towards her husband,"

teachings p.57/JoD 4:55-57 (September 21, 1856)