A prophecy or astute prediction from Sept 2014

[topcat]

There are changes presently underway that are going to jar the LDS community more and more in the coming years. If you are not prepared to preserve what has been given, everything will be lost in what will soon happen. It is necessary there be some few who seek for a community that tries to preserve the essential elements of the Restoration in their purity. In all the various Restoration churches what is rapidly underway at an accelerating pace, is more and more corruption. Whether it is the largest body, the LDS Church, or the Community of Christ, the United Apostolic Brethren, the FLDS, or the dozens of other splinter groups, there is widespread corruption. The Restoration has to be preserved. Every one of you has some issue that you would say to yourself, "if this," then I would no longer follow. All those "if this's" are in the wings. Inexorably, they are coming. The Restoration has to be preserved. It has to be preserved in a manner it can remain pure.

Is this not prophetic? Never mind who said this. Look at WHAT was said.

Since 2014 we are all witnesses of this news regarding the mainstream LDS Church:

* Can't baptize of age children, who have gay parents.
* A complete reversal 3 years later where you can baptize the children.
* Massive Temple endowment/ ordinance changes
* Leak of the Church sitting on one tenth of a trillion dollars, with no transparency about how sacred money is spent.
* Despite widespread abuse of children being reported, youth interviews by leaders in private continue unabated.
* BYU admin choosing openly gay students to be the valedictorian and hand them the microphone for their speech
* Yesterday it is reported at https://www.sltrib.com/news/education/2 ... r-byu-will that BYU will allow people with a mental disorder (transgenders) to compete in ballroom dancing contests.
* [EDIT...added bullet]: The church officially supporting Federal legislation which would criminalize a therapist who tries to convince a boy that he's a boy or a girl that she's a girl.
https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.or ... ember-2019
* What have I omitted?


In my view, the legal system has become totally corrupt and run directly by Satan, and the courts are enforcing Satan's talking points. The American Bar Association, the judges, law enforcement, attorneys in general, are all tools of Satan.

Being that the Church has incorporated, it is therefore subject to Satan's will. Therein lies the conflict of interest.

A Church independent of entanglements through incorporation could, without strings attached, expose the agenda of the powers that seeks to corrupt society. Instead, with strings attached, they push forward the agenda. If they don't, they will be sued. EVERYTHING done by the Church is blessed by the Church's law firm. In other words, the lawyers are ABOVE the apostles in real power and influence in the Church.

To you:

Every one of you has some issue that you would say to yourself, "if this," then I would no longer follow.

What will be your line in the sand?

How much corruption will you tolerate?

When will you stand up to the Church and say enough is enough, you have gone astray?

Or do you have no line in the sand? Will you stand with certain men no matter how corrupt they are as long as they hold a title?

Could Isaiah's prophecy quoted by the Lord to Joseph Smith apply to us today?

19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”

20 He again forbade me to join with any of them...

[Thinker]

UT just became the 19th state to make conversion therapy, to overcome sexual disorders, illegal. Psychologists who try to help people with sexual disorders like homosexuality will have their license taken away. Insane!!

Not long ago - about 15 years ago - I attended a class for fostering and peer parenting for kids who were saved from various types of abuse. Some horrific cases were shown and explained. Then the teacher showed a picture of a child with long hair in pig tails and a dress and asked us, “what type of abuse do you think this child suffered?” It turned out the child was a boy but since the mother wanted a girl, she dressed him up as a girl. Now, this situation is backwards and abusers are being encouraged and supported, while those pointing out the dysfunction and mental illness are being punished.

The problem with the church is its foundation is built on praises of man - whether it be praising church leaders or praising those who have power and money. This is significantly why so many suffer physically and mentally in the church (UT led the nation in mental illness, & the poor are robbed of tithes). It has a lot of good, but also a lot of evil, mostly based on wanting to please men over God.

• “Behold, there are many called, but few are chosen. And why are they not chosen?
  Because their hearts are set so much upon the things of this world, and aspire to the honors of men...”- D&C 121:34-35

[Zathura]

If it was a General Authority who said it, members would claim its prophecy, revelation, proof that this is Gods church.

Since it was not, I believe it is Denver Snuffer(?) (Ive read that somewhere, don’t remember where)that said this, they will disregard it as being an obvious and easy prediction . Never mind the fact that they claim past obvious statements that were already supported by data and trends like ,*paraphrasing* “the family unit will disintegrate ”.... is a prophecy. Or when Faust talked about the eventual consequences of technology, they pretend like it was a prophecy somehow.

Andrew Yang is up here prophesying as much as Faust did.

[topcat]

UT just became the 19th state to make conversion therapy, to overcome sexual disorders, illegal. Psychologists who try to help people with sexual disorders like homosexuality will have their license taken away. Insane!!

Not long ago - about 15 years ago - I attended a class for fostering and peer parenting for kids who were saved from various types of abuse. Some horrific cases were shown and explained. Then the teacher showed a picture of a child with long hair in pig tails and a dress and asked us, “what type of abuse do you think this child suffered?” It turned out the child was a boy but since the mother wanted a girl, she dressed him up as a girl. Now, this situation is backwards and abusers are being encouraged and supported, while those pointing out the dysfunction and mental illness are being punished.

The problem with the church is its foundation is built on praises of man - whether it be praising church leaders or praising those who have power and money. This is significantly why so many suffer physically and mentally in the church (UT led the nation in mental illness, & the poor are robbed of tithes). It has a lot of good, but also a lot of evil, mostly based on wanting to please men over God.

• “Behold, there are many called, but few are chosen. And why are they not chosen?
  Because their hearts are set so much upon the things of this world, and aspire to the honors of men...”- D&C 121:34-35

Let me get this straight, you're saying that professionals who are trying to help a biological male/female understand that he/she's a biological male/female (presumably because he/she's been abused and brainwashed into thinking otherwise) will have their license revoked if they continue to help these sick people?

You said that 15 years ago abuse victims were considered abuse victims, whereas now the victims are considered healthy and normal, and the mental abuse of the abusers is considered normal behavior.

Where does the Church stand on this Satanic [conversion therapy] "law" where normal is considered abnormal and mentally sick is considered healthy?

To me it's unbelievable that any Christian, much less Pres Nelson, or any apostle, would think it praiseworthy to support the abuse of children being taught that they are the opposite sex.

Far more likely an explanation for Pres Nelson supporting such abuse would be to protect $100,000,000,000+. Lawyers are paid to preserve the assets of any corporation. The lawyers know which way the wind is blowing, and so their advise would be to bow to Babylon, which would prevent lawsuit losses that would devastate the Church financially. I think it's that simple.

A more complicated, harder to prove theory (for now) is that Satan is at work through infiltrators, and he is slowly but surely polluting the members' minds through insidious, even overt nonsense, like it's okay to embrace homosexuality and now transgenderism.

The only thing more insane than transgenderism is the sacrifice of children. Wait! That is happening already through abortion. Infant's body parts are being harvested and big money is being made. I guess the next step would be the legalization of killing babies and children, after a nice torture session, and doing this in a ceremony where police stand at the doors protecting the participants in their Satanic rituals. I suppose that is the next step in evolution.

It's truly INSANE that transgenderism is going mainstream!! I can't overemphasize my shock enough. How in the world can such insanity and mental disorder possibly be gaining traction in our society? It's as if demons are all around us and they're making outrageous statements, and the people around them just shrug and say "whatever", till critical mass is reached and the demon theology goes mainline.

BYU just couldn't risk the lawsuit, and now allows transgenders to dance with each other.

Look, I'm Libertarian, and believe in the non-aggression principle (NAP). But there is something called property rights. I can dictate who can come on to my property and who can't. I can say, "sure, go ahead and chop your penis off. I respect your right to do that, but I'd suggest you might be having a mental breakdown and to get help. Meanwhile, at MY dance competition at MY house, I say kindly and respectfully that such confused people are not welcome, and the reason is that I don't want to condone the illness, and don't want that influence or spirit in MY house. Please go hold your own competition and invite transgenders. I won't be attending, but feel free to invite transgenders."

The problem is the legal society. They are into FORCING its agenda on ALL of society. Don't comply? We'll sue you and put you out of business. Therefore it's not a free society. In a free society you could have the transgenders off doing their thing, and about 50% are committing suicide, in their neck of the woods, and you could have Christians doing their thing. There COULD be peace. But because of the corrupt legal system, the power of the state is brought to bear on those who think differently from Satan. You are FORCED to bend the knee to the state.

And the Church, as a corporation, must inevitably bend the knee. Jesus even said, you cannot serve God and Mammon. The worship of Mammon was guaranteed once incorporation occurred and the corp. became subject to the state.

[johnBob]

Let me get this straight, you're saying that professionals who are trying to help a biological male/female understand that he/she's a biological male/female (presumably because he/she's been abused and brainwashed into thinking otherwise) will have their license revoked if they continue to help these sick people?

Yeah man-I don't know where you been but this happened towards the end of last year.

And now the Church is supporting this legislation for the entire country.

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.or ... ember-2019

You've got Elder Rasband right behind them.

"To prohibit discrimination on the basis of sex, sexual orientation, and gender identity; and to protect the free exercise
of religion"

It inserts "sex, sexual orientation, gender identity,"
into the Civil Rights Act.

That bill passes and goodbye freedom, bans against conversion therapy just became law of the land. Sure it has a carve-out for religious institutions but that's it.

[topcat]

Let me get this straight, you're saying that professionals who are trying to help a biological male/female understand that he/she's a biological male/female (presumably because he/she's been abused and brainwashed into thinking otherwise) will have their license revoked if they continue to help these sick people?

Yeah man-I don't know where you been but this happened towards the end of last year.

And now the Church is supporting this legislation for the entire country.

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.or ... ember-2019

You've got Elder Rasband right behind them.

"To prohibit discrimination on the basis of sex, sexual orientation, and gender identity; and to protect the free exercise
of religion"

It inserts "sex, sexual orientation, gender identity,"
into the Civil Rights Act.

That bill passes and goodbye freedom, bans against conversion therapy just became law of the land. Sure it has a carve-out for religious institutions but that's it.

Thanks. I do remember catching a glimpse of the headline, but couldn't make sense of what it was banning. It looks like conversion therapy is defined as helping someone understand that because they have a penis or vagina that means they are a male or a female, respectively.

[johnBob]

Let me get this straight, you're saying that professionals who are trying to help a biological male/female understand that he/she's a biological male/female (presumably because he/she's been abused and brainwashed into thinking otherwise) will have their license revoked if they continue to help these sick people?

Yeah man-I don't know where you been but this happened towards the end of last year.

And now the Church is supporting this legislation for the entire country.

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.or ... ember-2019

You've got Elder Rasband right behind them.

"To prohibit discrimination on the basis of sex, sexual orientation, and gender identity; and to protect the free exercise
of religion"

It inserts "sex, sexual orientation, gender identity,"
into the Civil Rights Act.

That bill passes and goodbye freedom, bans against conversion therapy just became law of the land. Sure it has a carve-out for religious institutions but that's it.

Thanks. I do remember catching a glimpse of the headline, but couldn't make sense of what it was banning. It looks like conversion therapy is defined as helping someone understand that because they have a penis or vagina that means they are a male or a female, respectively.

No conversion therapy (there is a symbol there as the only true conversion therapy is through Christ . . .), is about ANY attempt to change one's sexual orientation or gender. Trans, homosexual, demigod (yes that's a thing), it prohibits by the force of law from preventing anyone to provide professional help to change.

So sad. Most people have no idea what the "Fairness for All" act would really do. It makes homosexuals and trans a "protected class"-which means you cannot use that to discriminate against them-period.

All these "Drag Queen Story Hour" shows, it would be ILLEGAL for the library to prohibit them. Just think about that, my Church endorsed a bill which would make it ILLEGAL for a library to say NO to "Drag Queen Story Hour".

[topcat]

Let me get this straight, you're saying that professionals who are trying to help a biological male/female understand that he/she's a biological male/female (presumably because he/she's been abused and brainwashed into thinking otherwise) will have their license revoked if they continue to help these sick people?

Yeah man-I don't know where you been but this happened towards the end of last year.

And now the Church is supporting this legislation for the entire country.

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.or ... ember-2019

You've got Elder Rasband right behind them.

"To prohibit discrimination on the basis of sex, sexual orientation, and gender identity; and to protect the free exercise
of religion"

It inserts "sex, sexual orientation, gender identity,"
into the Civil Rights Act.

That bill passes and goodbye freedom, bans against conversion therapy just became law of the land. Sure it has a carve-out for religious institutions but that's it.

Thanks. I do remember catching a glimpse of the headline, but couldn't make sense of what it was banning. It looks like conversion therapy is defined as helping someone understand that because they have a penis or vagina that means they are a male or a female, respectively.

No conversion therapy (there is a symbol there as the only true conversion therapy is through Christ . . .), is about ANY attempt to change one's sexual orientation or gender. Trans, homosexual, demigod (yes that's a thing), it prohibits by the force of law from preventing anyone to provide professional help to change.

So sad. Most people have no idea what the "Fairness for All" act would really do. It makes homosexuals and trans a "protected class"-which means you cannot use that to discriminate against them-period.

All these "Drag Queen Story Hour" shows, it would be ILLEGAL for the library to prohibit them. Just think about that, my Church endorsed a bill which would make it ILLEGAL for a library to say NO to "Drag Queen Story Hour".

JohnBob,

This makes my blood boil. But it's to be expected I'm afraid.

I read the press release from the church that you linked to, and of course none of which you are exposing is mentioned at all.

I read some of the bill trying to find the parts you referring to but it's like 70 pages long and I don't have time to find it as I drive down the road. I do know that the Civil Rights act, as Ron Paul and others exposed for years, was a ploy of the Communists and globalists, to divide our country into groups, to keep us fighting with each other, and thinking in terms of what group I am a part of, as opposed to just being a red-blooded American who loves freedom.

We have rights as individuals, as men and women made in the image of God... we have God-given rights. It's not because of an affiliation with a particular group.

This really is basic education, but virtually no one understands this. Again, like I said above, Satan has complete control over the judges and the attorneys by virtue of the fact none of them can work unless they submit to ABA. And Satan's minions are not content to live and let live, they must force their agenda down our throats.

[topcat]

JohnBob,

You said:

Most people have no idea what the "Fairness for All" act would really do. It makes homosexuals and trans a "protected class"-which means you cannot use that to discriminate against them-period.

So this means that if you are a family counselor or therapist or similar profession, that if let's say a twelve-year-old boy comes to you and he is telling you that he thinks he's a girl, and his parents are the obvious culprits and that they encourage his disorder, that you as a therapist, if you try to convince him that he's a boy because he has a penis, that you could lose your license? Such a therapy session would be deemed discriminating against a transgender?

[johnBob]

JohnBob,

You said:

Most people have no idea what the "Fairness for All" act would really do. It makes homosexuals and trans a "protected class"-which means you cannot use that to discriminate against them-period.

So this means that if you are a family counselor or therapist or similar profession, that if let's say a twelve-year-old boy comes to you and he is telling you that he thinks he's a girl, and his parents are the obvious culprits and that they encourage his disorder, that you as a therapist, if you try to convince him that he's a boy because he has a penis, that you could lose your license? Such a therapy session would be deemed discriminating against a transgender?

Yes, that is exactly right. That is the law in Utah right now (or more accurately the "rule" which the Church endorsed and was then passed as a "rule" by Utah's Psychology/Counseling Board". Technically it's not directly a law, but because the Psychology Licensing Board passed this rule it is defacto law-as in if you do what you say above you WILL lose your license to practice in Utah and if you lose your licence and you practice then you run afoul of State Law (which requires everyone practicing to have a license). Snakes.

So while this "Fairness for All" act doesn't DIRECTLY make it law-what is WILL do is force all Licensing Boards to pass rules that ensure non-discrimination against all this stuff. Then those rules will be made to enforce it all across the nation.

[topcat]

JohnBob,

You said:

Most people have no idea what the "Fairness for All" act would really do. It makes homosexuals and trans a "protected class"-which means you cannot use that to discriminate against them-period.

So this means that if you are a family counselor or therapist or similar profession, that if let's say a twelve-year-old boy comes to you and he is telling you that he thinks he's a girl, and his parents are the obvious culprits and that they encourage his disorder, that you as a therapist, if you try to convince him that he's a boy because he has a penis, that you could lose your license? Such a therapy session would be deemed discriminating against a transgender?

Yes, that is exactly right. That is the law in Utah right now (or more accurately the "rule" which the Church endorsed and was then passed as a "rule" by Utah's Psychology/Counseling Board". Technically it's not directly a law, but because the Psychology Licensing Board passed this rule it is defacto law-as in if you do what you say above you WILL lose your license to practice in Utah and if you lose your licence and you practice then you run afoul of State Law (which requires everyone practicing to have a license). Snakes.

So while this "Fairness for All" act doesn't DIRECTLY make it law-what is WILL do is force all Licensing Boards to pass rules that ensure non-discrimination against all this stuff. Then those rules will be made to enforce it all across the nation.

As to why the church would support this type of insane rule or law which encourages severe and criminal abuse of children, is there a better explanation than this:

The church is getting its ducks in a row so it doesn't get sued.

I can't think of anything else for a justification for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to support such an evil bill/ state rule.

And how in the world does an apostle show up at a press conference to promote the bill??

Is the church just hoping that people don't pay attention, like I didn't, until you brought it to my attention?

[johnBob]

Yeah man-I don't know where you been but this happened towards the end of last year.

And now the Church is supporting this legislation for the entire country.

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.or ... ember-2019

You've got Elder Rasband right behind them.

"To prohibit discrimination on the basis of sex, sexual orientation, and gender identity; and to protect the free exercise
of religion"

It inserts "sex, sexual orientation, gender identity,"
into the Civil Rights Act.

That bill passes and goodbye freedom, bans against conversion therapy just became law of the land. Sure it has a carve-out for religious institutions but that's it.

Thanks. I do remember catching a glimpse of the headline, but couldn't make sense of what it was banning. It looks like conversion therapy is defined as helping someone understand that because they have a penis or vagina that means they are a male or a female, respectively.

No conversion therapy (there is a symbol there as the only true conversion therapy is through Christ . . .), is about ANY attempt to change one's sexual orientation or gender. Trans, homosexual, demigod (yes that's a thing), it prohibits by the force of law from preventing anyone to provide professional help to change.

So sad. Most people have no idea what the "Fairness for All" act would really do. It makes homosexuals and trans a "protected class"-which means you cannot use that to discriminate against them-period.

All these "Drag Queen Story Hour" shows, it would be ILLEGAL for the library to prohibit them. Just think about that, my Church endorsed a bill which would make it ILLEGAL for a library to say NO to "Drag Queen Story Hour".

JohnBob,

This makes my blood boil. But it's to be expected I'm afraid.

I read the press release from the church that you linked to, and of course none of which you are exposing is mentioned at all.

I read some of the bill trying to find the parts you referring to but it's like 70 pages long and I don't have time to find it as I drive down the road. I do know that the Civil Rights act, as Ron Paul and others exposed for years, was a ploy of the Communists and globalists, to divide our country into groups, to keep us fighting with each other, and thinking in terms of what group I am a part of, as opposed to just being a red-blooded American who loves freedom.

We have rights as individuals, as men and women made in the image of God... we have God-given rights. It's not because of an affiliation with a particular group.

This really is basic education, but virtually no one understands this. Again, like I said above, Satan has complete control over the judges and the attorneys by virtue of the fact none of them can work unless they submit to ABA. And Satan's minions are not content to live and let live, they must force their agenda down our throats.

It's a trojan horse and the Church threw it's entire US membership under the bus. It carved out protections for it's little hiney, CES directors, COB, Bishops, SP, etc. the institution.

But anyone else who has a business-nah you're screwed . . unless you have less than 20 employees, or work in a spa or gym, or are a "medical provider"-but only as long as it's "evidence-based". Of course that's how the ban on conversion therapy was passed-it was "evidence-based" that conversion therapy caused people to kill themselves so it got banned.

If you want to work for a company that doesn't have freaks and weirdos-sorry you're out of luck b/c it's law (if it passes) that they can't discriminate against them.

They just did a big up yours and a middle finger to the entire conservative membership of the Church-just they could protect themselves . . .who gives a rip if on Sunday for 2 hours I don't have to deal with some half-shemale for a Bishop when I'm required to for work 5 days a week?

[johnBob]

And how in the world does an apostle show up at a press conference to promote the bill??

Is the church just hoping that people don't pay attention, like I didn't, until you brought it to my attention?

All you've got to realize is that the Church is now "woke"-it's now a progressive institution. When you understand it through that lens then every move they have been making makes perfect sense.

Just wait-women will get the Priesthood-it's coming.

[JK4Woods]

UT just became the 19th state to make conversion therapy, to overcome sexual disorders, illegal. Psychologists who try to help people with sexual disorders like homosexuality will have their license taken away. Insane!!

Not long ago - about 15 years ago - I attended a class for fostering and peer parenting for kids who were saved from various types of abuse. Some horrific cases were shown and explained. Then the teacher showed a picture of a child with long hair in pig tails and a dress and asked us, “what type of abuse do you think this child suffered?” It turned out the child was a boy but since the mother wanted a girl, she dressed him up as a girl. Now, this situation is backwards and abusers are being encouraged and supported, while those pointing out the dysfunction and mental illness are being punished.

The problem with the church is its foundation is built on praises of man - whether it be praising church leaders or praising those who have power and money. This is significantly why so many suffer physically and mentally in the church (UT led the nation in mental illness, & the poor are robbed of tithes). It has a lot of good, but also a lot of evil, mostly based on wanting to please men over God.

• “Behold, there are many called, but few are chosen. And why are they not chosen?
  Because their hearts are set so much upon the things of this world, and aspire to the honors of men...”- D&C 121:34-35

Let me get this straight, you're saying that professionals who are trying to help a biological male/female understand that he/she's a biological male/female (presumably because he/she's been abused and brainwashed into thinking otherwise) will have their license revoked if they continue to help these sick people?

You said that 15 years ago abuse victims were considered abuse victims, whereas now the victims are considered healthy and normal, and the mental abuse of the abusers is considered normal behavior.

Where does the Church stand on this Satanic [conversion therapy] "law" where normal is considered abnormal and mentally sick is considered healthy?

To me it's unbelievable that any Christian, much less Pres Nelson, or any apostle, would think it praiseworthy to support the abuse of children being taught that they are the opposite sex.

Far more likely an explanation for Pres Nelson supporting such abuse would be to protect $100,000,000,000+. Lawyers are paid to preserve the assets of any corporation. The lawyers know which way the wind is blowing, and so their advise would be to bow to Babylon, which would prevent lawsuit losses that would devastate the Church financially. I think it's that simple.

A more complicated, harder to prove theory (for now) is that Satan is at work through infiltrators, and he is slowly but surely polluting the members' minds through insidious, even overt nonsense, like it's okay to embrace homosexuality and now transgenderism.

The only thing more insane than transgenderism is the sacrifice of children. Wait! That is happening already through abortion. Infant's body parts are being harvested and big money is being made. I guess the next step would be the legalization of killing babies and children, after a nice torture session, and doing this in a ceremony where police stand at the doors protecting the participants in their Satanic rituals. I suppose that is the next step in evolution.

It's truly INSANE that transgenderism is going mainstream!! I can't overemphasize my shock enough. How in the world can such insanity and mental disorder possibly be gaining traction in our society? It's as if demons are all around us and they're making outrageous statements, and the people around them just shrug and say "whatever", till critical mass is reached and the demon theology goes mainline.

BYU just couldn't risk the lawsuit, and now allows transgenders to dance with each other.

Look, I'm Libertarian, and believe in the non-aggression principle (NAP). But there is something called property rights. I can dictate who can come on to my property and who can't. I can say, "sure, go ahead and chop your penis off. I respect your right to do that, but I'd suggest you might be having a mental breakdown and to get help. Meanwhile, at MY dance competition at MY house, I say kindly and respectfully that such confused people are not welcome, and the reason is that I don't want to condone the illness, and don't want that influence or spirit in MY house. Please go hold your own competition and invite transgenders. I won't be attending, but feel free to invite transgenders."

The problem is the legal society. They are into FORCING its agenda on ALL of society. Don't comply? We'll sue you and put you out of business. Therefore it's not a free society. In a free society you could have the transgenders off doing their thing, and about 50% are committing suicide, in their neck of the woods, and you could have Christians doing their thing. There COULD be peace. But because of the corrupt legal system, the power of the state is brought to bear on those who think differently from Satan. You are FORCED to bend the knee to the state.

And the Church, as a corporation, must inevitably bend the knee. Jesus even said, you cannot serve God and Mammon. The worship of Mammon was guaranteed once incorporation occurred and the corp. became subject to the state.

The problem is Love of Money. Why go into Law if not to earn a big paycheck, have the big house, fancy cars and prestige of your peers?

It's BS when law students say they want to become lawyers to help the oppressed. There are few who will work for an entire career on a public defenders salary.
Every one else is working for the big payday of winning a suit- whatever the merits..!!

[Robin Hood]

There are changes presently underway that are going to jar the LDS community more and more in the coming years. If you are not prepared to preserve what has been given, everything will be lost in what will soon happen. It is necessary there be some few who seek for a community that tries to preserve the essential elements of the Restoration in their purity. In all the various Restoration churches what is rapidly underway at an accelerating pace, is more and more corruption. Whether it is the largest body, the LDS Church, or the Community of Christ, the United Apostolic Brethren, the FLDS, or the dozens of other splinter groups, there is widespread corruption. The Restoration has to be preserved. Every one of you has some issue that you would say to yourself, "if this," then I would no longer follow. All those "if this's" are in the wings. Inexorably, they are coming. The Restoration has to be preserved. It has to be preserved in a manner it can remain pure.

Is this not prophetic? Never mind who said this. Look at WHAT was said.

Since 2014 we are all witnesses of this news regarding the mainstream LDS Church:

* Can't baptize of age children, who have gay parents.
* A complete reversal 3 years later where you can baptize the children.
* Massive Temple endowment/ ordinance changes
* Leak of the Church sitting on one tenth of a trillion dollars, with no transparency about how sacred money is spent.
* Despite widespread abuse of children being reported, youth interviews by leaders in private continue unabated.
* BYU admin choosing openly gay students to be the valedictorian and hand them the microphone for their speech
* Yesterday it is reported at https://www.sltrib.com/news/education/2 ... r-byu-will that BYU will allow people with a mental disorder (transgenders) to compete in ballroom dancing contests.
* [EDIT...added bullet]: The church officially supporting Federal legislation which would criminalize a therapist who tries to convince a boy that he's a boy or a girl that she's a girl.
https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.or ... ember-2019
* What have I omitted?


In my view, the legal system has become totally corrupt and run directly by Satan, and the courts are enforcing Satan's talking points. The American Bar Association, the judges, law enforcement, attorneys in general, are all tools of Satan.

Being that the Church has incorporated, it is therefore subject to Satan's will. Therein lies the conflict of interest.

A Church independent of entanglements through incorporation could, without strings attached, expose the agenda of the powers that seeks to corrupt society. Instead, with strings attached, they push forward the agenda. If they don't, they will be sued. EVERYTHING done by the Church is blessed by the Church's law firm. In other words, the lawyers are ABOVE the apostles in real power and influence in the Church.

To you:

Every one of you has some issue that you would say to yourself, "if this," then I would no longer follow.

What will be your line in the sand?

How much corruption will you tolerate?

When will you stand up to the Church and say enough is enough, you have gone astray?

Or do you have no line in the sand? Will you stand with certain men no matter how corrupt they are as long as they hold a title?

Could Isaiah's prophecy quoted by the Lord to Joseph Smith apply to us today?

19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”

20 He again forbade me to join with any of them...

The problem with this Snuffy prediction is that it is so broad and so general that it can be made to appear to fit almost any scenario. I would be more impressed if he had actually predicted something very specific.
It also has to be said that his prophecy does not fit the Community of Christ very well at all. I don't know anything about the other churches mentioned, but I do know the CofC went down the liberal-anything-goes route many years ago; well before DS made this statement. In fact it has to be said that everything has been quiet on the RLDS/CofC front for the past 7 or 8 years.
So I call false prophecy.

[gkearney]

I would like to address one point here:

* BYU admin choosing openly gay students to be the valedictorian and hand them the microphone for their speech

Valedictorian are "chosen", if you will, by a mathematical process. They are the graduating student with the highest GPA. In institutions the size of BYU this can, and is, a complex calculation taking into account things like course load and the nature of the courses taken, Chemical Engineering classes count for more than do general PE classes for example. However in the end it is a pure math problem and nothing more. There can be only one valedictorian, and this guy was it.

[topcat]

I would like to address one point here:

* BYU admin choosing openly gay students to be the valedictorian and hand them the microphone for their speech

Valedictorian are "chosen", if you will, by a mathematical process. They are the graduating student with the highest GPA. In institutions the size of BYU this can, and is, a complex calculation taking into account things like course load and the nature of the courses taken, Chemical Engineering classes count for more than do general PE classes for example. However in the end it is a pure math problem and nothing more. There can be only one valedictorian, and this guy was it.

Very good point.... However if I recall correctly, there were lots of qualified valedictorians, and only one gave the final speech. Was that choice (to have him speak) a pure mathematical decision as well? I don't know for sure, I'm asking.

[gkearney]

I would like to address one point here:

* BYU admin choosing openly gay students to be the valedictorian and hand them the microphone for their speech

Valedictorian are "chosen", if you will, by a mathematical process. They are the graduating student with the highest GPA. In institutions the size of BYU this can, and is, a complex calculation taking into account things like course load and the nature of the courses taken, Chemical Engineering classes count for more than do general PE classes for example. However in the end it is a pure math problem and nothing more. There can be only one valedictorian, and this guy was it.

Very good point.... However if I recall correctly, there were lots of valedictorians, and only one gave the final speech. What's that choice a pure mathematical decision as well? I don't know for sure, I'm asking.

There are lots of lots of valedictorians which is why, at least when I was there, they went through a complex system of calculating the GPA of the one person to be named lots of valedictorian.

[johnBob]

I would like to address one point here:

* BYU admin choosing openly gay students to be the valedictorian and hand them the microphone for their speech

Valedictorian are "chosen", if you will, by a mathematical process. They are the graduating student with the highest GPA. In institutions the size of BYU this can, and is, a complex calculation taking into account things like course load and the nature of the courses taken, Chemical Engineering classes count for more than do general PE classes for example. However in the end it is a pure math problem and nothing more. There can be only one valedictorian, and this guy was it.

Very good point.... However if I recall correctly, there were lots of valedictorians, and only one gave the final speech. What's that choice a pure mathematical decision as well? I don't know for sure, I'm asking.

There are lots of lots of valedictorians which is why, at least when I was there, they went through a complex system of calculating the GPA of the one person to be named lots of valedictorian.

And yet their talks are submitted for approval beforehand; to claim innocent as to what was going to occur is to accord a level of incompetence that I'm not willing to bestow upon them (and if it is that level of incompetence-they should be fired).

[Thinker]

To me it's unbelievable that any Christian, much less Pres Nelson, or any apostle, would think it praiseworthy to support the abuse of children being taught that they are the opposite sex...

The only thing more insane than transgenderism is the sacrifice of children. Wait! That is happening already through abortion. Infant's body parts are being harvested and big money is being made...

It's truly INSANE that transgenderism is going mainstream!! I can't overemphasize my shock enough. How in the world can such insanity and mental disorder possibly be gaining traction in our society? It's as if demons are all around us and they're making outrageous statements, and the people around them just shrug and say "whatever", till critical mass is reached and the demon theology goes mainline.

BYU just couldn't risk the lawsuit, and now allows transgenders to dance with each other...

You’re right. It is insane - denial of reality.

How in the world did the church go from declaring the Family Proclamation... to this insanity? Maybe a few factors contributed. Russell Nelson was part of a child-sex abuse lawsuit last fall. It’s believed he covered up for his daughter, Brenda. That is another reason why I don’t trust him. I think Juliet explained how some people who were abused as children, will grow up to abuse - but they “split” - so it’s as if they are like 2 people - the sane one and the insane one. I’ve seen this in action - it’s bizarre & sadly sick. Then there’s also Wendy (Russel’s wife) and Sheri owning a home together & Sheri joined them on the Rome vacation. To me, these seem to help explain the 180’s the church has done regarding sexual disorders.

It is so so very sad about children suffering as they do. Brings tears to my eyes. I pray for them and try to be a voice for them - to educate people what’s really happening to them. But many don’t want to hear it. I posted about abortion on a more liberal forum and got a warning and my post was deleted. Similarly, I’ve been banned by several different forums (NewOrderMormon - old and new, SpiritualForums, PostMormon & StayLds - for stating facts about how homosexuality hurts many practicing it (STDs, AIDS, anal sex risks, mental illness etc). I know I can be blunt and could often state things more compassionately, but I can’t help but see freedom of speech be squelched in favor of harmful homosexual lies. Silencers pretend to silence out of love but really they prevent informing people about dangers - out of mob-mentality - wanting others to like them.

Lately, I’ve been learning about the Titanic. A film portrayed people going about their business, denying that the ship was in trouble. Men continuing to play cards and drink, even though their drinks spilt, women refusing to sit by 3rd class passengers & others complaining about the life jackets being uncomfortable. They had no idea how their entire world was soon to be turned upside down! It’s a fitting metaphor, some GA have used comparing the church with a ship - except rather than staying in the sinking ship - find means to save yourself from it. Not saying the church is all bad - lots of good - but can’t be trusted as if God.

I know JohnBob & others joke about the “woke” - but seriously, many are in denial about a lot! I suppose we all are ignor-ant about some issues. Maybe the question is, “Which issues are most important?”

For my kids, who I love more than anything, I want to teach them to THINK for themselves - not to blindly follow anyone, no matter how cool or authoritative. And to trust in God above all - pray always - occasionally thinking or saying prayers but mostly listening for God. Developing a healthy faith that will serve as a firm foundation to get through this crazy world!

[topcat]

I would like to address one point here:

* BYU admin choosing openly gay students to be the valedictorian and hand them the microphone for their speech

Valedictorian are "chosen", if you will, by a mathematical process. They are the graduating student with the highest GPA. In institutions the size of BYU this can, and is, a complex calculation taking into account things like course load and the nature of the courses taken, Chemical Engineering classes count for more than do general PE classes for example. However in the end it is a pure math problem and nothing more. There can be only one valedictorian, and this guy was it.

Very good point.... However if I recall correctly, there were lots of valedictorians, and only one gave the final speech. What's that choice a pure mathematical decision as well? I don't know for sure, I'm asking.

There are lots of lots of valedictorians which is why, at least when I was there, they went through a complex system of calculating the GPA of the one person to be named lots of valedictorian.

And yet their talks are submitted for approval beforehand; to claim innocent as to what was going to occur is to accord a level of incompetence that I'm not willing to bestow upon them (and if it is that level of incompetence-they should be fired).

And BYU approved his talk as well.

https://apnews.com/aa05709e48374ede9c064044953a683f

The political science major said only a few people knew about his sexual orientation before Friday, when he spoke the words, “I am proud to be a gay son of God” in a speech pre-approved by college officials.

Uh, yeah, there is an leftist / globalist agenda and the propaganda is rapidly rolling out even in the Church.

[johnBob]

To me it's unbelievable that any Christian, much less Pres Nelson, or any apostle, would think it praiseworthy to support the abuse of children being taught that they are the opposite sex...

The only thing more insane than transgenderism is the sacrifice of children. Wait! That is happening already through abortion. Infant's body parts are being harvested and big money is being made...

It's truly INSANE that transgenderism is going mainstream!! I can't overemphasize my shock enough. How in the world can such insanity and mental disorder possibly be gaining traction in our society? It's as if demons are all around us and they're making outrageous statements, and the people around them just shrug and say "whatever", till critical mass is reached and the demon theology goes mainline.

BYU just couldn't risk the lawsuit, and now allows transgenders to dance with each other...

You’re right. It is insane - denial of reality.

How in the world did the church go from declaring the Family Proclamation... to this insanity? Maybe a few factors contributed. Russell Nelson was part of a child-sex abuse lawsuit last fall. It’s believed he covered up for his daughter, Brenda. That is another reason why I don’t trust him. I think Juliet explained how some people who were abused as children, will grow up to abuse - but they “split” - so it’s as if they are like 2 people - the sane one and the insane one. I’ve seen this in action - it’s bizarre & sadly sick. Then there’s also Wendy (Russel’s wife) and Sheri owning a home together & Sheri joined them on the Rome vacation. To me, these seem to help explain the 180’s the church has done regarding sexual disorders.

It is so so very sad about children suffering as they do. Brings tears to my eyes. I pray for them and try to be a voice for them - to educate people what’s really happening to them. But many don’t want to hear it. I posted about abortion on a more liberal forum and got a warning and my post was deleted. Similarly, I’ve been banned by several different forums (NewOrderMormon - old and new, SpiritualForums, PostMormon & StayLds - for stating facts about how homosexuality hurts many practicing it (STDs, AIDS, anal sex risks, mental illness etc). I know I can be blunt and could often state things more compassionately, but I can’t help but see freedom of speech be squelched in favor of harmful homosexual lies. Silencers pretend to silence out of love but really they prevent informing people about dangers - out of mob-mentality - wanting others to like them.

Lately, I’ve been learning about the Titanic. A film portrayed people going about their business, denying that the ship was in trouble. Men continuing to play cards and drink, even though their drinks spilt, women refusing to sit by 3rd class passengers & others complaining about the life jackets being uncomfortable. They had no idea how their entire world was soon to be turned upside down! It’s a fitting metaphor, some GA have used comparing the church with a ship - except rather than staying in the sinking ship - find means to save yourself from it. Not saying the church is all bad - lots of good - but can’t be trusted as if God.

I know JohnBob & others joke about the “woke” - but seriously, many are in denial about a lot! I suppose we all are ignor-ant about some issues. Maybe the question is, “Which issues are most important?”

For my kids, who I love more than anything, I want to teach them to THINK for themselves - not to blindly follow anyone, no matter how cool or authoritative. And to trust in God above all - pray always - occasionally thinking or saying prayers but mostly listening for God. Developing a healthy faith that will serve as a firm foundation to get through this crazy world!

There has been quite a bit that has occurred in the Church outside of last GC-I think quite a few more people are aware and the progressives in the Church are getting more and more bold. When the flip occurs they will absolutely persecute anyone who doesn't believe as they do inside the Church. Hopefully it doesn't happen-I pray it doesn't. But when there are massive thunderheads in the distance, a bunch lightening and some drops of rain-you'd have to be crazy to not get ready for the storm.

[topcat]

To me it's unbelievable that any Christian, much less Pres Nelson, or any apostle, would think it praiseworthy to support the abuse of children being taught that they are the opposite sex...

The only thing more insane than transgenderism is the sacrifice of children. Wait! That is happening already through abortion. Infant's body parts are being harvested and big money is being made...

It's truly INSANE that transgenderism is going mainstream!! I can't overemphasize my shock enough. How in the world can such insanity and mental disorder possibly be gaining traction in our society? It's as if demons are all around us and they're making outrageous statements, and the people around them just shrug and say "whatever", till critical mass is reached and the demon theology goes mainline.

BYU just couldn't risk the lawsuit, and now allows transgenders to dance with each other...

You’re right. It is insane - denial of reality.

How in the world did the church go from declaring the Family Proclamation... to this insanity? Maybe a few factors contributed. Russell Nelson was part of a child-sex abuse lawsuit last fall. It’s believed he covered up for his daughter, Brenda. That is another reason why I don’t trust him. I think Juliet explained how some people who were abused as children, will grow up to abuse - but they “split” - so it’s as if they are like 2 people - the sane one and the insane one. I’ve seen this in action - it’s bizarre & sadly sick. Then there’s also Wendy (Russel’s wife) and Sheri owning a home together & Sheri joined them on the Rome vacation. To me, these seem to help explain the 180’s the church has done regarding sexual disorders.

It is so so very sad about children suffering as they do. Brings tears to my eyes. I pray for them and try to be a voice for them - to educate people what’s really happening to them. But many don’t want to hear it. I posted about abortion on a more liberal forum and got a warning and my post was deleted. Similarly, I’ve been banned by several different forums (NewOrderMormon - old and new, SpiritualForums, PostMormon & StayLds - for stating facts about how homosexuality hurts many practicing it (STDs, AIDS, anal sex risks, mental illness etc). I know I can be blunt and could often state things more compassionately, but I can’t help but see freedom of speech be squelched in favor of harmful homosexual lies. Silencers pretend to silence out of love but really they prevent informing people about dangers - out of mob-mentality - wanting others to like them.

Lately, I’ve been learning about the Titanic. A film portrayed people going about their business, denying that the ship was in trouble. Men continuing to play cards and drink, even though their drinks spilt, women refusing to sit by 3rd class passengers & others complaining about the life jackets being uncomfortable. They had no idea how their entire world was soon to be turned upside down! It’s a fitting metaphor, some GA have used comparing the church with a ship - except rather than staying in the sinking ship - find means to save yourself from it. Not saying the church is all bad - lots of good - but can’t be trusted as if God.

I know JohnBob & others joke about the “woke” - but seriously, many are in denial about a lot! I suppose we all are ignor-ant about some issues. Maybe the question is, “Which issues are most important?”

For my kids, who I love more than anything, I want to teach them to THINK for themselves - not to blindly follow anyone, no matter how cool or authoritative. And to trust in God above all - pray always - occasionally thinking or saying prayers but mostly listening for God. Developing a healthy faith that will serve as a firm foundation to get through this crazy world!

There has been quite a bit that has occurred in the Church outside of last GC-I think quite a few more people are aware and the progressives in the Church are getting more and more bold. When the flip occurs they will absolutely persecute anyone who doesn't believe as they do inside the Church. Hopefully it doesn't happen-I pray it doesn't. But when there are massive thunderheads in the distance, a bunch lightening and some drops of rain-you'd have to be crazy to not get ready for the storm.

I remember reading that BYU had been inundated with hundreds of left-leaning teachers and administrators back in the 1970's. But they weren't only not fired but protected.

If those were the rain drops, the storm must have already happened in the last 40+ years and we are seeing the ripened fruit of these bad actors being in charge for so long.

[Thinker]

There has been quite a bit that has occurred in the Church outside of last GC-I think quite a few more people are aware and the progressives in the Church are getting more and more bold. When the flip occurs they will absolutely persecute anyone who doesn't believe as they do inside the Church. Hopefully it doesn't happen-I pray it doesn't. But when there are massive thunderheads in the distance, a bunch lightening and some drops of rain-you'd have to be crazy to not get ready for the storm.

Good analogy - signs of a storm coming.

I & - I think it was Lizzy - have spiritually sensed the need to maintain boundaries with people practicing homosexuality. Realize that I have family & friends who have developed homosexual preferences, who I love. As children they were abused and developed distorted ideas of sex. My grandma was a therapist in an area in CA which has a lot of homosexual practice. She said every client with homosexual preferences had been sexually abused - every single one. Studies suggest that is common, but there are other factors. Not everyone who is sexually abused develops homosexual preferences.

Some on this forum have suggested homosexuality is the result of demon possession. That seems true, though that doesn’t mean a blessing is all that’s needed to heal. Even Christ acknowledged that some cases require more. Any mental illness is like having knots inside that take time & effort to detangle. This is why it’s especially sad and immoral for therapists to be legally required to not help those suffering from homosexual disorders.

Being influenced by evil spirits is common. We all are influenced to one extent or another. Nobody’s perfect and nobody is beyond temptation and sin. So to say, “I won’t hang out with anyone evil” will make me a hermit or surrounded by denial. Christ hung out with people who weren’t perfect - some who he called devil etc., suggesting there are various types of spirits - not all the same. His disciples suggested killing many with fire (as Sodom & Gomorrah). But Christ...

• “turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.” - Luke 9:55

Later, when Peter objected to Christ’s prediction of what would happen to him, Christ...

• “turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.” - Matthew 16:23

These were apostles of Christ that he called Satan or implied having evil spirits! And Christ commanded we visit those in prison amongst the least of these. Generally, prisoners have done quite some evil. It’s as if Christ taught and lived to be among people who had evil - but he also taught & lived to have boundaries and not trust in men...

The following passage stands out in my mind because it shows Christ having boundaries in giving leave to the evil spirits and in not allowing the man who was healed of demons to follow him...

• ”And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand;) and were choked in the sea.
  
  And they that fed the swine fled, and told it in the city, and in the country. And they went out to see what it was that was done.
  And they come to Jesus, and see him that was possessed with the devil, and had the legion, sitting, and clothed, and in his right mind: and they were afraid.
  And they that saw it told them how it befell to him that was possessed with the devil, and also concerning the swine.
  And they began to pray him to depart out of their coasts.
  
  And when he was come into the ship, he that had been possessed with the devil prayed him that he might be with him.
  Howbeit Jesus suffered him not, but saith unto him, Go home to thy friends, and tell them how great things the Lord hath done for thee, and hath had compassion on thee.” -
  Mark 5:13-19

My patriarchal blessing warns, “Do not frequent places where you know evil will abound.” How can I know when and where “evil will abound”? Evil is in all - so is good. I think it’s when evil outweighs good & negatively influences me, and when I haven’t sufficiently filled my psyche with GOoD...

• ”When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
  Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
  Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.“ - Matthew 12:43-45

This goes back to what we were discussing on the “Scriptures: good & bad” thread - how, many have replaced God with evil. Many prioritize evil ideologies and ways above GOoD. The homosexual god is especially seeking harm - openly and deceptively. This is why, despite loving family & friends with homosexual preferences, I still sense they as a group are actively trying to overtake churches, God & children & we need to maintain boundaries with them. Love them but assert our rights that they seek to trample.

Homosexual manifesto 1987, stating plans to get to boys in churches, Boy Scouts etc...
http://blessedcause.org/protest/Gay%20Manifesto.htm

[EdGoble]

What will be your line in the sand?

How much corruption will you tolerate?

When will you stand up to the Church and say enough is enough, you have gone astray?

Or do you have no line in the sand? Will you stand with certain men no matter how corrupt they are as long as they hold a title?

Could Isaiah's prophecy quoted by the Lord to Joseph Smith apply to us today?

Gratefully, the question boils down as always to whether the restoration can be preserved by well meaning people independent of keys.
Of course we have heard it all for years on this forum. There is nothing to be said on the matter other than the issue of keys.

Denver doesn't have them so he has to explain them away. For regular LDS, the question is already answered. Stay on the ark while the water is raging, because there is no other ark. If you don't like what is taught, then endure, and keep your covenants and be obedient, and when you make it to the other side, Joseph Smith himself will be there to either set you straight in your thinking, or set the brethren straight when they get there. Rest assured he is at the helm of the Church there. No matter what you believe or whether you think things are corrupt, either you are being tested to see if you will endure to the end by being obedient to things you don't like, or you ought to change your attitude about things you don't like. Either way, enduring to the end and obedience to keys is the answer, not having some line in the sand where you will leave if and when this or that happens.. Whether the hierarchy is justified is not your problem. How you react to what comes down from them is what you are in control of. therefore, endure, or change your attitude. But leaving isn't an option, because Denver Snuffer isn't an answer, and associating yourself with him and his followers just makes you unworthy of a temple recommend. If you no longer believe in the hierarchy, then by all means, do what you must do with your agency. But you will just drown in the flood waters. Patience, endurance and obedience are the only option to maintain your spiritual standing. if you don't value that though, by all means, do what you must do, but don't come here seeking to destroy the Lord's church. in other words, as the angel said to Alma the younger, if you insist on being destroyed yourself then go ahead, but leave the Lord's Church alone.