Freedom is Under Attack Again

[thestock]

Like what kind of laws? He already broke many laws doing what he did. What would more laws do to make a difference?
And about the post to SKMO, you called out his integrity. That is a pretty unkind thing to do in my book. Just sayin.

You told a story about why nobody could stand up to the Nazi Holocaust and the reason was because all their guns were taken away. I am saying that is the heart of the 2nd ammendment.....your right and freedom to own a firearm is guaranteed. I am not arguing against this. Turning efforts to have citizens lock their guns or employ general safety measures is not the same as trying to take people's guns away.

[JK4Woods]

Lest we lose sight of mortality among the general population of the United States::


On average, across any 48 hour period, we also lose…

500 people to Medical errors
300 citizens to the Flu
250 people to Suicide
200 residents to Car Accidents
40 people to Homicide via Handgun

[Rand]

Like what kind of laws? He already broke many laws doing what he did. What would more laws do to make a difference?
And about the post to SKMO, you called out his integrity. That is a pretty unkind thing to do in my book. Just sayin.

You told a story about why nobody could stand up to the Nazi Holocaust and the reason was because all their guns were taken away. I am saying that is the heart of the 2nd ammendment.....your right and freedom to own a firearm is guaranteed. I am not arguing against this. Turning efforts to have citizens lock their guns or employ general safety measures is not the same as trying to take people's guns away.

Which of the shootings that have occurred would that have prevented? It may help an occasional shooting, but more likely, it would put more parents in jail who have just suffered and intolerable tragedy, and punish the rest of the family further. There are other consequences, how to do they monitor that, without having the right to come into your home and check when ever they wanted... yuck!

[thestock]

Like what kind of laws? He already broke many laws doing what he did. What would more laws do to make a difference?
And about the post to SKMO, you called out his integrity. That is a pretty unkind thing to do in my book. Just sayin.

You told a story about why nobody could stand up to the Nazi Holocaust and the reason was because all their guns were taken away. I am saying that is the heart of the 2nd ammendment.....your right and freedom to own a firearm is guaranteed. I am not arguing against this. Turning efforts to have citizens lock their guns or employ general safety measures is not the same as trying to take people's guns away.

Which of the shootings that have occurred would that have prevented? It may help an occasional shooting, but more likely, it would put more parents in jail who have just suffered and intolerable tragedy, and punish the rest of the family further. There are other consequences, how to do they monitor that, without having the right to come into your home and check when ever they wanted... yuck!

I am not arguing to prevent mass shootings. That would require a fundamental shift our society is not willing to undertake. I am simply arguing for reasonable measures. Leaving loaded and easily accessible firearms laying around your house is a danger to you, your family, and all visitors to your home....especially if they have little children. I dont think its unreasonable to ask responsible firearms owners to store their firearms responsibly. I've known way too many rednecks that have loaded revolvers and shotguns within arms reach of a small child and they somehow think its their middle finger to the Government's right to be so careless.......

[ajax]

I am not arguing to prevent mass shootings. That would require a fundamental shift our society is not willing to undertake. I am simply arguing for reasonable measures. Leaving loaded and easily accessible firearms laying around your house is a danger to you, your family, and all visitors to your home....especially if they have little children. I dont think its unreasonable to ask responsible firearms owners to store their firearms responsibly. I've known way too many rednecks that have loaded revolvers and shotguns within arms reach of a small child and they somehow think its their middle finger to the Government's right to be so careless.......

I wonder if there is an epidemic among "rednecks", whatever that means, of mass accidental shootings in the home. My guess is their kids become far more respectful and educated about firearms over time. But it's just a guess.

It may not be unreasonable to ask responsible firearms owners to store their firearms responsibly, BUT I wonder what method of enforcement you deem reasonable. Regular home inspections by authorities? Cameras? What may be "reasonable" for one may not be "reasonable" for another and their particular situations. I do not deem myself expert enough to pretend to know what is best for somebody else and their situation.

For me, locking away home defense options is utterly useless and pointless. A home defense tool must be at the ready.

[thestock]

I am not arguing to prevent mass shootings. That would require a fundamental shift our society is not willing to undertake. I am simply arguing for reasonable measures. Leaving loaded and easily accessible firearms laying around your house is a danger to you, your family, and all visitors to your home....especially if they have little children. I dont think its unreasonable to ask responsible firearms owners to store their firearms responsibly. I've known way too many rednecks that have loaded revolvers and shotguns within arms reach of a small child and they somehow think its their middle finger to the Government's right to be so careless.......

I wonder if there is an epidemic among "rednecks", whatever that means, of mass accidental shootings in the home. My guess is their kids become far more respectful and educated about firearms over time. But it's just a guess.

It may not be unreasonable to ask responsible firearms owners to store their firearms responsibly, BUT I wonder what method of enforcement you deem reasonable. Regular home inspections by authorities? Cameras? What may be "reasonable" for one may not be "reasonable" for another and their particular situations. I do not deem myself expert enough to pretend to know what is best for somebody else and their situation.

For me, locking away home defense options is utterly useless and pointless. A home defense tool must be at the ready.

Good questions. I am not advocating FOR the law. I am simply amused at those who scoff and complain at these things as if they are conceding some huge freedom to the hands of the terrible government. How to enforce? Not my problem. I wont be letting any government agents inside my home without a warrant, and I doubt they issue warrants for routine firearms checks. As for teaching children to be responsible....that is great. I do the same to my kids. But the neighbor kids who come over to hang out are likely to blow their heads off or mine with one of my carelessly loaded .357s. See where I am going with this?

As for having a home defense option available when needed....JUST FOLLOW THE LAW. I live in one of the most unreasonable states in the union when it comes to gun control. However I am conceal-carry licensed and ready to go. FOR ME, it is within the scope of the law to have a loaded and unlocked firearm on my person, or at my direct control, including under my pillow if I so choose.

Just follow the law and dont whine and moan at reasonable things. That is all I ever meant to champion in this thread.

[ajax]

I reject any national legislation on firearms. These are state issues to grapple with. One may be more strict than others.

[skmo]

A threat of violence against an internet stranger who disagrees with you? Yeah.....you are the poster boy of who we should be listening to when it comes to reasonable firearms laws.

It wasn't a threat, merely a statement. If you need an explanation between the two, go ask your mom.

[skmo]

The 2nd amendment protects your right to own a firearm. That is where the rights end.

Is the concept of a "right" too complex? It's not something the government gives to me, it's innate in nature.

Be reasonable and responsible.

I am. The government doesn't need to make a law requiring me to report a stolen gun, that's just plain common sense. If you're too dumb to report a gun that has been stolen, you may be too dumb to be wandering around without supervision, but it's just plain STUPID our mommy gov't thinks it needs to micromanage our lives.

However, you don't get to tell me what to do in my home. The gov't doesn't get to either. I choose how to store my guns, and a law requiring me to keep my guns locked up is tyrannical and I refuse to obey it. In case this didn't come up in your history class:

…Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government...

A gov't intruding that much into my life is no longer a just society, they are being tyrants. I refuse to live under tyranny.

[skmo]

misquote

[skmo]

Why violate our charge to be subject to kings/rulers/due process etc?

I'm not violating it when I reflect on words God inspired once upon a time:

…But when a long Train of Abuses and Usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a Design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their Right, it is their Duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future Security....

The people in Portland are okay with living under the thumb of tyranny because their rulers are okay with letting their subjects (not citizens) have all the drug use and sexual perversion they want.

The people of San Fran Psycho are the same, but more so and for a much longer time.

I live in a state that still believes in the right of the people to live free. It's the only way I'll live. There's and old saying that goes "It's better to die on your feet than live on your knees." I concur.

[skmo]

My guess is their kids become far more respectful and educated about firearms over time. But it's just a guess.

When I first went to my wife's house (girlfriend at the time) there was a corner where all the guys leaned their rifles and shotguns. My wife and her sisters knew you didn't TOUCH the guns, and they flat out obeyed it. They had been taught to respect and to expect respect back. There were some rules they broke: No dogs allowed in the house, but once when their mom was gone they held the front and back doors open and ran through the house with the dog. However, none of the girls ever touched the guns, and my BIL didn't touch unless his dad was there.

Of course, that was when "common sense" was actually common.

[righteousrepublic]

Sorry Eskimo but if you think being asked to lock your guns up in the modern world and to report stolen arms to the police is an infringement of your freedoms and something to whine and complain about then that just makes you a.........whiner and complainer. Inability to compromise on reasonable measures is what will inevitably land you in the hot water you so desperately desire to protect yourself against.....though I imagine you'd likely be one of those that runs and hides while others take care of the problem for you.

Sorry stock.....you got this all wrong....responsible gun owners\law abiding citizens are not the problem in the modern world and do not need to make compromises on their second amendment rights......one day you will understand the folly of your opinion, whining and complaining about those of us who demand our constitutional rights and privileges....but it will probably be too late.....and you will most likely have to run and hide...while the rest of us take care of the problem, people like you have created...........

The constitution guarantees your freedom to own a firearm. It doesnt say anything about giving you the freedom to be irresponsible with it.

I just bought a brand new car, it's luxurious, and is talk of the neighborhood. I have it parked on the side of my house. Even the tires are extremely attractive with bright shinny wheels. But for safety reasons and being as responsible as I can, and in order to not hit someone and hurt, maim or kill another human being...I had the engine removed, and the car had to be towed to my house in the dead of night. I didn't want neighbors to see my new four wheeled weapon.

Sounds crazy, right?


Locking up guns is just another way for government to execute no-knock warrants and kill you. Heck, the Tuttles in Houston were not doing as what was written in a no-knock warrant. They had firearms and used them against Houston PD officers who busted in their door and started shooting. The Tuttles and their dog were murdered by rogue cops. Mr Tuttle lay on the floor for 10 to 15 minutes screaming for help. A Detective told officers to just let the man die.

Dennis Wayne Tuttle Autopsy
https://justinpulliam.com/Documents/201 ... utopsy.pdf


Rhogena Ann Nicholas Autopsy
https://justinpulliam.com/Documents/201 ... utopsy.pdf

[thestock]

I just bought a brand new car, it's luxurious, and is talk of the neighborhood. I have it parked on the side of my house. Even the tires are extremely attractive with bright shinny wheels. But for safety reasons and being as responsible as I can, and in order to not hit someone and hurt, maim or kill another human being...I had the engine removed, and the car had to be towed to my house in the dead of night. I didn't want neighbors to see my new four wheeled weapon.

Sounds crazy, right?

I appreciate the back and forth; the car analogy seems like a bad fit for what we are talking about. I am going to humbly bow out of this thread.....I've said my piece and I understand some people are happy whining and complaining about anything and everything gun-related that does not allow them to act like its 1817 on the open range. That's fine, more power to them.

[righteousrepublic]

I just bought a brand new car, it's luxurious, and is talk of the neighborhood. I have it parked on the side of my house. Even the tires are extremely attractive with bright shinny wheels. But for safety reasons and being as responsible as I can, and in order to not hit someone and hurt, maim or kill another human being...I had the engine removed, and the car had to be towed to my house in the dead of night. I didn't want neighbors to see my new four wheeled weapon.

Sounds crazy, right?

I appreciate the back and forth; the car analogy seems like a bad fit for what we are talking about. I am going to humbly bow out of this thread.....I've said my piece and I understand some people are happy whining and complaining about anything and everything gun-related that does not allow them to act like its 1817 on the open range. That's fine, more power to them.

Yup! We're whining and complaining about our rights being trampled on by government, these rights given to us by God. It's sad when people bow down to government and then see the government they trusted so much put them in a position to where they will be watched and controlled 24/7. I know this sounds extreme but once the United States becomes under the control of the New World Order we'll be like the Jews that had no defense against the Nazis and were taken by the thousands and killed. The NWO does not want people to be able to defend themselves and they thrive on killing all Christians. This is a sickening scenario but is a possibility that us whiners and complainers want to be ready and prepared for if it ever happens.

Patrick Henry said: give me liberty or give me death. Does that sound like he is whining? Did he have is musket and ammo stowed away in a lock box with a trigger lock on the musket?

Look around. Are there cameras everywhere watching people wherever they go? Are there cameras on almost every traffic signal aimed right at you and getting a picture of your face?

Government buildings and Post Offices have cameras all around watching people, and even though they claim the cameras are only there for their safety you can bet there is more to it. Now they, the government, either has already developed or are developing satellites equipped with cameras able to see you while you're sitting in a lawn chair in your front yard.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/maga ... ching-you/

http://www.doublegv.com/ggv/battles/tactics.html


I think whining and complaining is appropriate for those concerned about liberty and freedom being taken away from them little by little.

[lundbaek]

I just got the following from Ron Paul's Campaign for Liberty:

"Feinstein’s gun ban. National gun registration and outright confiscation. Mandatory “buy-backs.” Gun licensing schemes. All of that and more is on the table and being discussed in Washington, D.C. right now. And if those of us who want to preserve and protect the Constitution don’t stand up to stop them, each of those items at the top of the Gun Control Lobby’s agenda and more could become law."

I hope I am wrong, but it seems we are getting more and more legislators supporting further infringements on our right to possess a gun. Do your representatives and senators know of your opposition to further infringements? Do they even care what you think or want? Are you making them aware of what you think and want?

[ajax]

Support the 10th amendment center. The states are the last resort against unconstitutional federal law. Nullification. Blue states may go with the feds. But there should be a heavy clamoring from red state citizens to their state reps to nullify.

[righteousrepublic]

I just got the following from Ron Paul's Campaign for Liberty:

"Feinstein’s gun ban. National gun registration and outright confiscation. Mandatory “buy-backs.” Gun licensing schemes. All of that and more is on the table and being discussed in Washington, D.C. right now. And if those of us who want to preserve and protect the Constitution don’t stand up to stop them, each of those items at the top of the Gun Control Lobby’s agenda and more could become law."

I hope I am wrong, but it seems we are getting more and more legislators supporting further infringements on our right to possess a gun. Do your representatives and senators know of your opposition to further infringements? Do they even care what you think or want? Are you making them aware of what you think and want?

The question remains, will the public, those that are for freedom and liberty, going to lie down and take all this gun confiscation, etc, or stand up and fight? It isn't up to legislators anymore, it is up to "We The People" as to whether we survive or not from here on out. Can government jail millions of people? Legislators ain't going to listen to a lot of crying and complaining when their short hairs are in the grasp of evil men. And the sad part of it is is that they don't even know it.

IMHO, I say we need a lot of fervent prayers going up to the ears of God for him to step in and do something. And even then, he may be slow to hear due to the wickedness of his children. But I hope the righteousness of many of his saints will make a difference. If not, the legislators are going to win. And us gun owners are going to lie face down in the dirt in fear and shame. And I wouldn't blame the Founder's and all the folks who died bringing us freedom and liberty if they were to turn their backs to us...If They Haven't Already.

[lundbaek]

One reason that God may be slow to step in and save us from the tyranny that the latter-day gadiantons (LDGs) intend to impose on us is, I believe, because we have failed to heed the instruction we were given that could have prevented tyranny. By way of example, I think 30+ years ago most Latter-day Saints did not consider ignoring the instructions given us by prophets and apostles to learn, uphold, and abide by the principles of the US Constitution as being unrighteous. Especially as there was little or no follow-up by stake presidencies and bishoprics. So who is really at fault for the tyranny that LDGs are gradually imposing on us. Is it the members who never heard much of anything about it. Is it the stake presidents and bishops who never followed up on the admonitions of prophets and apostles to learn, uphold, and abide by the principles of the US Constitution? Is it the fault of individual members who didn't "get it" from reading in the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants? Or is it the fault of members of the Church who did not want to do what the prophets and apostles were advising them to do back 30+ years ago; or even now?

[righteousrepublic]

One reason that God may be slow to step in and save us from the tyranny that the latter-day gadiantons (LDGs) intend to impose on us is, I believe, because we have failed to heed the instruction we were given that could have prevented tyranny. By way of example, I think 30+ years ago most Latter-day Saints did not consider ignoring the instructions given us by prophets and apostles to learn, uphold, and abide by the principles of the US Constitution as being unrighteous. Especially as there was little or no follow-up by stake presidencies and bishoprics. So who is really at fault for the tyranny that LDGs are gradually imposing on us. Is it the members who never heard much of anything about it. Is it the stake presidents and bishops who never followed up on the admonitions of prophets and apostles to learn, uphold, and abide by the principles of the US Constitution? Is it the fault of individual members who didn't "get it" from reading in the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants? Or is it the fault of members of the Church who did not want to do what the prophets and apostles were advising them to do back 30+ years ago; or even now?

Well, after all the guns are confiscated by the Gads, and after many Americans helped them, then we can be glad we still have air to breath as we look up from the dust beneath our noses.