The Temple Endowment (Yes, this again) and hownit was supposedly "harmful"

[[email protected]]

So I came accross this type of LDS apostate website which featured an OP responding to the news of the recent Temple Endowment changes (I believe Lizzy60 originally posted this here in another related thread):

https://bycommonconsent.com/2019/01/02/ ... -possible/

Of course you'll read how elated these individuals were at the news and they go on to thank all kinds of women including excommunicated apostate activists for these changes. Never once do you see any thanks given to Heavenly Father, the closest thing you you'll see is some half hearted gratitude to our "heavenly parents" whatever that's supposed to mean. But the more I think about it why should they thank Heavenly Father? He had nothing to do with these changes and that's becoming clear to me now. So many people are saying how they've been "harmed" by the previous Endowment and I have to wonder in what way were they harmed? How will they be "harmed" in the next life when they discover their 21st Century activist views have no place in the Kingdom of God? It makes me wonder.

[Craig Johnson]

I have no idea. I have gone through I think three transitions at this point and it all seems very spiritually natural.

[Lizzy60]

There are two influences going on here. First of all, there are more women who are in control of how much money is paid in tithes, either because they are single, or the main breadwinner, or co-breadwinners in their marriages. If they feel harmed by the temple ceremony, they won't need to pay tithes to get a temple recommend.

Secondly, there are influential feminist-leaning women among the wives of GA's and on the general boards of the RS, YW, and Primary.

It is easy to see where the FP and Q12 could decide that some changes in the ceremony that keeps more women active in the Church would be what God would want.

We will be seeing changes in LGBTQ acceptance in the near future. There are already wards reporting that gay couples are welcome in their wards and stakes. This is openly gay -- dating or married, showing affection, couples, praised for their bravery, and lauded as pioneers who are here, in the LDS church, to change the hearts and minds of the GA's.

[dezNatDefender]

There are two influences going on here. First of all, there are more women who are in control of how much money is paid in tithes, either because they are single, or the main breadwinner, or co-breadwinners in their marriages. If they feel harmed by the temple ceremony, they won't need to pay tithes to get a temple recommend.

Secondly, there are influential feminist-leaning women among the wives of GA's and on the general boards of the RS, YW, and Primary.

It is easy to see where the FP and Q12 could decide that some changes in the ceremony that keeps more women active in the Church would be what God would want.

We will be seeing changes in LGBTQ acceptance in the near future. There are already wards reporting that gay couples are welcome in their wards and stakes. This is openly gay -- dating or married, showing affection, couples, praised for their bravery, and lauded as pioneers who are here, in the LDS church, to change the hearts and minds of the GA's.

Hopefully the Church will split. I don't know how other wards went but in my ward Christ's teachings on marriage today was a blip in the entire lesson. It was a 5 min. mention, read the scripture, 2 or three comments and move on . . . considering this is absolutely one of the defining issues in society today. My ward is pretty conservative (or at least I think so) so either it's "we already know this", or it's a "let's not talk about the elephant in the room". Not sure which.

But it is a really sad commentary on society when my wife is teaching primary and mentions marriage and it gets more talk from 9-11 year olds than adults. My wife didn't drive the conversation, but opened it up and one of the kids said well yeah you'll see two women kissing and that's not right and another said . . .there is nothing wrong with that. . . ..

Nelson said something yesterday that makes me wonder what exactly is going to happen.
“This Church, when restored in its fulness, will prepare the world for the coming of the Lord,” but not before Christ’s followers are persecuted, he said.

So what exactly does "restored in its fulness" mean? Every meaningful step in the Church is more acceptance inside the Church of all things feminism and LGBT.

I'm not quite sure I really understand what Nelson means when he says "restored in its fullness". It has me worried. But I absolutely believe the 2nd part of that quote.

So, I'm not quite sure what to make of things . . .I'm just real tired of being in a religion that allows individuals like the person Lizzy60 posted about to openly promote such filth as Heavenly Father having a husband . . .and these individuals are in leadership roles.

If you want to be a member and spout of that crap, fine . . .but if you are in a public position (like a leadership role), that type of public proclamations should be grounds for excommunication for apostasy. But b/c he is one of the "protected" class, nothing will be done and no one will say anything.

At this point is it impossible that higher ups don't know what is going on.

[[email protected]]

There are two influences going on here. First of all, there are more women who are in control of how much money is paid in tithes, either because they are single, or the main breadwinner, or co-breadwinners in their marriages. If they feel harmed by the temple ceremony, they won't need to pay tithes to get a temple recommend.

Secondly, there are influential feminist-leaning women among the wives of GA's and on the general boards of the RS, YW, and Primary.

It is easy to see where the FP and Q12 could decide that some changes in the ceremony that keeps more women active in the Church would be what God would want.

We will be seeing changes in LGBTQ acceptance in the near future. There are already wards reporting that gay couples are welcome in their wards and stakes. This is openly gay -- dating or married, showing affection, couples, praised for their bravery, and lauded as pioneers who are here, in the LDS church, to change the hearts and minds of the GA's.

Hopefully the Church will split. I don't know how other wards went but in my ward Christ's teachings on marriage today was a blip in the entire lesson. It was a 5 min. mention, read the scripture, 2 or three comments and move on . . . considering this is absolutely one of the defining issues in society today. My ward is pretty conservative (or at least I think so) so either it's "we already know this", or it's a "let's not talk about the elephant in the room". Not sure which.

But it is a really sad commentary on society when my wife is teaching primary and mentions marriage and it gets more talk from 9-11 year olds than adults. My wife didn't drive the conversation, but opened it up and one of the kids said well yeah you'll see two women kissing and that's not right and another said . . .there is nothing wrong with that. . . ..

Nelson said something yesterday that makes me wonder what exactly is going to happen.
“This Church, when restored in its fulness, will prepare the world for the coming of the Lord,” but not before Christ’s followers are persecuted, he said.

So what exactly does "restored in its fulness" mean? Every meaningful step in the Church is more acceptance inside the Church of all things feminism and LGBT.

I'm not quite sure I really understand what Nelson means when he says "restored in its fullness". It has me worried. But I absolutely believe the 2nd part of that quote.

So, I'm not quite sure what to make of things . . .I'm just real tired of being in a religion that allows individuals like the person Lizzy60 posted about to openly promote such filth as Heavenly Father having a husband . . .and these individuals are in leadership roles.

If you want to be a member and spout of that crap, fine . . .but if you are in a public position (like a leadership role), that type of public proclamations should be grounds for excommunication for apostasy. But b/c he is one of the "protected" class, nothing will be done and no one will say anything.

At this point is it impossible that higher ups don't know what is going on.

I can't imagine this kind of stuff happening under Boyd K. Packer as head of the Quorum of the Twelve or Monson, Hinckley ot Benson as Presidents of the Church. I mean this Church is supposed to be influencing the larger society not the other way around.

[Michelle]

There are two influences going on here. First of all, there are more women who are in control of how much money is paid in tithes, either because they are single, or the main breadwinner, or co-breadwinners in their marriages. If they feel harmed by the temple ceremony, they won't need to pay tithes to get a temple recommend.

Secondly, there are influential feminist-leaning women among the wives of GA's and on the general boards of the RS, YW, and Primary.

It is easy to see where the FP and Q12 could decide that some changes in the ceremony that keeps more women active in the Church would be what God would want.

We will be seeing changes in LGBTQ acceptance in the near future. There are already wards reporting that gay couples are welcome in their wards and stakes. This is openly gay -- dating or married, showing affection, couples, praised for their bravery, and lauded as pioneers who are here, in the LDS church, to change the hearts and minds of the GA's.

I first saw the problem with some of the female leadership when I purchased some book by Chieko N. Okazaki. From lds.org "Sister Okazaki was the first woman to serve on all three of the women’s auxiliary boards: first Young Women, then Primary, then Relief Society." https://www.lds.org/study/ensign/2018/0 ... s?lang=eng

When I read her books many years ago, I realized that there were women at church, and in leadership, that understood the gospel and the role of women totally different than I did. . . and her understanding didn't seem to have anything to do with what I had read in the scriptures, heard at the pulpit, or felt by the Holy Spirit. I threw her books away and have watched, I'm sure, her influence lead many a sister down the wrong path with regard to womanhood, motherhood, and the Plan of Happiness.

[abijah]

But it is a really sad commentary on society when my wife is teaching primary and mentions marriage and it gets more talk from 9-11 year olds than adults. My wife didn't drive the conversation, but opened it up and one of the kids said well yeah you'll see two women kissing and that's not right

Haha that’s funny I was speaking with my mum today, they are members of a newly-created ward so she’s the new sunbeam teacher. I guess the lesson was on marriage so when she emphasised the “man and woman” aspect a 4 year-old burst out “but sometimes men marry men and Jesus doesn’t like that”.

Kid knows what’s up.

[kirtland r.m.]

How can anyone who studies the gospel not understand this issue? The answer is either they really are not earnestly studying in a meaningful way, and or they place their own wrong beliefs and misguided efforts ahead of the Lord, in an effort to help or show sympathy for some maybe including themselves, and so to justify serious sin. That is not going to fly with the Lord. He perfectly see's the narrow pathway to return to Him and one day "receive all that the Father has". Sodom and Gomorrah did not stand. layer8prob, Michelle, dezNatDefender, Lizzy60, and abijah are exactly right.

[Lizzy60]

What one pro-gay-marriage member says:
---------------------------------------------------------
Today in LDS Sunday School, the scriptures wherein Jesus addresses the limiting of heterosexual adultery and heterosexual divorce in marriages will be extrapolated to condemn same sex marriages -- a topic Jesus never addressed in his lifetime. To my beloved friends who are in or pursuing same sex marriages I want to say that I do not believe in this extrapolation; having been deeply blessed to have sat in your company, to hear your real stories and to have felt the spirit both of love and of God within you and your companionships.
Today, I am filled with gratitude and humility yet again for the life experiences that have helped to open my eyes and my heart to be able to see something beautiful and that I had not been taught to be able to see. More so now than ever, I believe in the scriptures that teach us that by our experience and by the fruits of a thing ye shall know the good from the evil. Again and again, when I am with so many friends and clients in same sex relationships, I can feel and see of the deep and tender good that has come from your unions and companionships. Observing your hard one love for each other in the face of so much opposition and observing the healing that comes in your relationships has moved me more times now than I can keep track of.

I remember much earlier in my journey, the sweet spirit I kept feeling as I began to get involved in Affirmation LGBTQ Mormons, Families & Friends -- I tentatively wondered how much I would be accepted or feel I truly belonged with others on differing journeys. At that time, John Gustav-Wrathall and his husband Goran Gustav-Wrathall gradually became beloved friends; strong examples of both Christlike discipleship to others and of marital devotion to each other. As I served with John, I felt the spirit often. When my husband had a conference in Minneapolis where John and Goran lived, he stayed with them and felt the goodness of their relationship too.

When two such good people of the same gender fall in love with each other, their union blesses both the couple and those around them. That is the revelation -- the good fruit that individuals and communities get to take part in if we are willing to let go of old assumptions and receive another blessing.

I wish I knew how to better help others see what I have come to see with so much tender conviction. Like so many things, sometimes all we can do is bare our witness and hope the spirit carries the message into more and more hearts with the readiness to hear it.

I continue to live as a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. When I go to church, I go to prepare a place for you. I can imagine no Zion or Celestial life without all of your relationships in it.
---------------------------------------------------

She cannot imagine Zion or the Celestial Kingdom without same-sex married couples.
This is going to divide the Church.

[Yahtzee]

Regarding the OP, I was told (by temple authority) that the changes were more about members in other countries than the United States.
Think about the cultures a lot of new converts are coming from.

[Craig Johnson]

What one pro-gay-marriage member says:
---------------------------------------------------------
Today in LDS Sunday School, the scriptures wherein Jesus addresses the limiting of heterosexual adultery and heterosexual divorce in marriages will be extrapolated to condemn same sex marriages -- a topic Jesus never addressed in his lifetime. To my beloved friends who are in or pursuing same sex marriages I want to say that I do not believe in this extrapolation; having been deeply blessed to have sat in your company, to hear your real stories and to have felt the spirit both of love and of God within you and your companionships.
Today, I am filled with gratitude and humility yet again for the life experiences that have helped to open my eyes and my heart to be able to see something beautiful and that I had not been taught to be able to see. More so now than ever, I believe in the scriptures that teach us that by our experience and by the fruits of a thing ye shall know the good from the evil. Again and again, when I am with so many friends and clients in same sex relationships, I can feel and see of the deep and tender good that has come from your unions and companionships. Observing your hard one love for each other in the face of so much opposition and observing the healing that comes in your relationships has moved me more times now than I can keep track of.

I remember much earlier in my journey, the sweet spirit I kept feeling as I began to get involved in Affirmation LGBTQ Mormons, Families & Friends -- I tentatively wondered how much I would be accepted or feel I truly belonged with others on differing journeys. At that time, John Gustav-Wrathall and his husband Goran Gustav-Wrathall gradually became beloved friends; strong examples of both Christlike discipleship to others and of marital devotion to each other. As I served with John, I felt the spirit often. When my husband had a conference in Minneapolis where John and Goran lived, he stayed with them and felt the goodness of their relationship too.

When two such good people of the same gender fall in love with each other, their union blesses both the couple and those around them. That is the revelation -- the good fruit that individuals and communities get to take part in if we are willing to let go of old assumptions and receive another blessing.

I wish I knew how to better help others see what I have come to see with so much tender conviction. Like so many things, sometimes all we can do is bare our witness and hope the spirit carries the message into more and more hearts with the readiness to hear it.

I continue to live as a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. When I go to church, I go to prepare a place for you. I can imagine no Zion or Celestial life without all of your relationships in it.
---------------------------------------------------

She cannot imagine Zion or the Celestial Kingdom without same-sex married couples.
This is going to divide the Church.

When I read statements like that the main thing that comes to mind is "What a crock, this person's knowledge of true and meaningful human interactions is near zero." I was abused by gay pedophiles in my youth after I was abandoned by my parents and from my own victimization and studies I have been privy to that have been done on homosexuality I have found that it is a short hop-skip-and-a-jump to pedophilia. And let us not discount the polysemy of this scripture: Matthew 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
Ask yourself why gay couples want to be able to have children, other people's children. Yeah, believe it or not.

[Sirius]

Regarding the OP, I was told (by temple authority) that the changes were more about members in other countries than the United States.
Think about the cultures a lot of new converts are coming from.

That changes nothing in regards to justification. If we are understanding and accepting the true Gospel of Jesus Christ, all cultural or societal differences should be set aside in keeping and conforming to His culture. He is after all, changing our very nature.

[Col. Flagg]

The temple endowment is nothing but a blatant rip-off of Masonic rites and rituals from their own temple ceremony. JS instituted the endowment about 2 months after becoming a 33rd degree Mason in Nauvoo.

[TrueIntent]

There are two influences going on here. First of all, there are more women who are in control of how much money is paid in tithes, either because they are single, or the main breadwinner, or co-breadwinners in their marriages. If they feel harmed by the temple ceremony, they won't need to pay tithes to get a temple recommend.

Secondly, there are influential feminist-leaning women among the wives of GA's and on the general boards of the RS, YW, and Primary.

It is easy to see where the FP and Q12 could decide that some changes in the ceremony that keeps more women active in the Church would be what God would want.

We will be seeing changes in LGBTQ acceptance in the near future. There are already wards reporting that gay couples are welcome in their wards and stakes. This is openly gay -- dating or married, showing affection, couples, praised for their bravery, and lauded as pioneers who are here, in the LDS church, to change the hearts and minds of the GA's.

Hopefully the Church will split. I don't know how other wards went but in my ward Christ's teachings on marriage today was a blip in the entire lesson. It was a 5 min. mention, read the scripture, 2 or three comments and move on . . . considering this is absolutely one of the defining issues in society today. My ward is pretty conservative (or at least I think so) so either it's "we already know this", or it's a "let's not talk about the elephant in the room". Not sure which.

But it is a really sad commentary on society when my wife is teaching primary and mentions marriage and it gets more talk from 9-11 year olds than adults. My wife didn't drive the conversation, but opened it up and one of the kids said well yeah you'll see two women kissing and that's not right and another said . . .there is nothing wrong with that. . . ..

Nelson said something yesterday that makes me wonder what exactly is going to happen.
“This Church, when restored in its fulness, will prepare the world for the coming of the Lord,” but not before Christ’s followers are persecuted, he said.

So what exactly does "restored in its fulness" mean? Every meaningful step in the Church is more acceptance inside the Church of all things feminism and LGBT.

I'm not quite sure I really understand what Nelson means when he says "restored in its fullness". It has me worried. But I absolutely believe the 2nd part of that quote.

So, I'm not quite sure what to make of things . . .I'm just real tired of being in a religion that allows individuals like the person Lizzy60 posted about to openly promote such filth as Heavenly Father having a husband . . .and these individuals are in leadership roles.

If you want to be a member and spout of that crap, fine . . .but if you are in a public position (like a leadership role), that type of public proclamations should be grounds for excommunication for apostasy. But b/c he is one of the "protected" class, nothing will be done and no one will say anything.

At this point is it impossible that higher ups don't know what is going on.

The church in its fullness means that it is a operating according to truth, i.e. as Jesus Christ would have it operate (righteously/righteous judgment/ways of God vs ways of men). Any deviation from what “He” would do, or who He actually is means we are “worshiping a false God”....which is the repeated cycle of the Old Testament and what the apostle Paul is speaking of when he refers to a “falling away” that will happen to the established New Testament church....true god, then worshiping false Gods; spirit of Antichrist vs Spirit of Christ. That’s the pattern. Within the “body” of people who all claim to whorship Him, you will find idol worshipers and true worshipers (true worshippers are known as prophets and saints, these titles used in the scriptures). The “appearance” of prophets and saints should fit the same “appearance” anciently.

Btw. Definitions and translations matter. Church, in the New Testament, is just a gathering of believers. religion is actually the secular worship with ordinances and ritual worship in synogogues and church buildings. What I’m saying is, you don’t have to be a member of the LDS Religion to be part of His church. The way we use the word “church” today is not the same definition as it would be used anciently in the New Testament scriptures. Knowing this simple truth with greatly affect your understanding and application of scripture. It will also help you discern from true and false messengers, and clarify passages of scripture in the New Testament that many interpret incorrectly.

See every New Testament scripture use of “church”....it will refer to those “called out” to separate themselves, these, at this time, were called out from the Jewish sect 2000 years ago. Also see every New Testament use of the term “religion”. You will see it is referring to the “organized” bodies of ritual worship. Also see uses of the term “synogogues” and their context vs what we today consider a “church” building and church worship today.

[oneClimbs]

The temple endowment is nothing but a blatant rip-off of Masonic rites and rituals from their own temple ceremony. JS instituted the endowment about 2 months after becoming a 33rd degree Mason in Nauvoo.

The Endowment is not a blatant rip-off no more than us using pianos, hymn books, pews and steeples is a rip-off of other Christian denominations. I recommend the following video that sums up why.

[Col. Flagg]

The temple endowment is nothing but a blatant rip-off of Masonic rites and rituals from their own temple ceremony. JS instituted the endowment about 2 months after becoming a 33rd degree Mason in Nauvoo.

The Endowment is not a blatant rip-off no more than us using pianos, hymn books, pews and steeples is a rip-off of other Christian denominations.

Except that we are told the endowment is required for entrance into God's presence and essential for our own salvation - your analogy would suggest that all other churches perform the same rituals that go on in ours and thus, are no big deal. I thought only we had the 'true Masonry'? By the way, you may want to familiarize yourself with Masonic rituals, ceremonies, characters, initiate phrases, words, signs, tokens, handshakes and dress attire before posting a video that presumably invalidates the notion that the LDS temple endowment resembles what goes on in Masonic temples.

[mirkwood]

Since you don't believe what do you care?

[shadow]

Kid knows what’s up.

Many kids do know what's up because they're taught by their parents.

[shadow]

There are two influences going on here. First of all, there are more women who are in control of how much money is paid in tithes, either because they are single, or the main breadwinner, or co-breadwinners in their marriages. If they feel harmed by the temple ceremony, they won't need to pay tithes to get a temple recommend.

Secondly, there are influential feminist-leaning women among the wives of GA's and on the general boards of the RS, YW, and Primary.

It is easy to see where the FP and Q12 could decide that some changes in the ceremony that keeps more women active in the Church would be what God would want.

We will be seeing changes in LGBTQ acceptance in the near future. There are already wards reporting that gay couples are welcome in their wards and stakes. This is openly gay -- dating or married, showing affection, couples, praised for their bravery, and lauded as pioneers who are here, in the LDS church, to change the hearts and minds of the GA's.

I sometimes wonder how long Lucifer and his 1/3 part followers were allowed to be in Heaven preaching their false doctrine until they were finally excommunicated. It's a serious query I have, one that we don't know the answer to other than we know God is very patient and allows opposition to some extent.

[The Airbender]

Nelson said something yesterday that makes me wonder what exactly is going to happen.
“This Church, when restored in its fulness, will prepare the world for the coming of the Lord,” but not before Christ’s followers are persecuted, he said.

The restoration of all things was halted and we have retreated far from what Joseph gave us, or wanted to give us. Those things have to be brought back before we can receive the Savior. He is the first president to speak of such things, it seems, in a long time. It is very refreshing.

[Col. Flagg]

Since you don't believe what do you care?

Has nothing to do with believing, it has to do with facts and truth.

[Kingdom of ZION]

What one pro-gay-marriage member says:
---------------------------------------------------------
Today in LDS Sunday School, the scriptures wherein Jesus addresses the limiting of heterosexual adultery and heterosexual divorce in marriages will be extrapolated to condemn same sex marriages -- a topic Jesus never addressed in his lifetime. To my beloved friends who are in or pursuing same sex marriages I want to say that I do not believe in this extrapolation; having been deeply blessed to have sat in your company, to hear your real stories and to have felt the spirit both of love and of God within you and your companionships.
Today, I am filled with gratitude and humility yet again for the life experiences that have helped to open my eyes and my heart to be able to see something beautiful and that I had not been taught to be able to see. More so now than ever, I believe in the scriptures that teach us that by our experience and by the fruits of a thing ye shall know the good from the evil. Again and again, when I am with so many friends and clients in same sex relationships, I can feel and see of the deep and tender good that has come from your unions and companionships. Observing your hard one love for each other in the face of so much opposition and observing the healing that comes in your relationships has moved me more times now than I can keep track of.

I remember much earlier in my journey, the sweet spirit I kept feeling as I began to get involved in Affirmation LGBTQ Mormons, Families & Friends -- I tentatively wondered how much I would be accepted or feel I truly belonged with others on differing journeys. At that time, John Gustav-Wrathall and his husband Goran Gustav-Wrathall gradually became beloved friends; strong examples of both Christlike discipleship to others and of marital devotion to each other. As I served with John, I felt the spirit often. When my husband had a conference in Minneapolis where John and Goran lived, he stayed with them and felt the goodness of their relationship too.

When two such good people of the same gender fall in love with each other, their union blesses both the couple and those around them. That is the revelation -- the good fruit that individuals and communities get to take part in if we are willing to let go of old assumptions and receive another blessing.

I wish I knew how to better help others see what I have come to see with so much tender conviction. Like so many things, sometimes all we can do is bare our witness and hope the spirit carries the message into more and more hearts with the readiness to hear it.

I continue to live as a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. When I go to church, I go to prepare a place for you. I can imagine no Zion or Celestial life without all of your relationships in it.
---------------------------------------------------

She cannot imagine Zion or the Celestial Kingdom without same-sex married couples.
This is going to divide the Church.

Amon! As it rightly should. But it will not be the thing that gets the righteous to repent and embrace the fullness. It must come from a new work in the earth, being done by G_d.

[Kingdom of ZION]

The temple endowment is nothing but a blatant rip-off of Masonic rites and rituals from their own temple ceremony. JS instituted the endowment about 2 months after becoming a 33rd degree Mason in Nauvoo.

So what?!?!

You think that only real truths must be original? The revealed truths have been the same from the beginning... and where did the Mason's get it? If from the Knights Temples, where did they get it? Jewish traditions? Old writings?

Again, so what? Does anyone own these truths? You make it seem like Joseph Smith stole their secrets and was trying to replace them, which never was the case.

Get over it! If you feel that strongly about it, go join the Masons!

[Yahtzee]

Regarding the OP, I was told (by temple authority) that the changes were more about members in other countries than the United States.
Think about the cultures a lot of new converts are coming from.

That changes nothing in regards to justification. If we are understanding and accepting the true Gospel of Jesus Christ, all cultural or societal differences should be set aside in keeping and conforming to His culture. He is after all, changing our very nature.

And ideally that would happen instantly to all converts (and everyone else). But we're far from ideal, aren't we?
What it means is that the actual ordinance wasn't changed, just aspects of the presentation were. And yes, culture affects the presentation.
The endowment used to take over 7 hours. That was fine for pioneers, but not any more. Once I learned that I became much more accepting of changes to it; 'cause no thanks!

[mirkwood]

Since you don't believe what do you care?

Has nothing to do with believing, it has to do with facts and truth.

You are clearly not really a member, so again, why do you care. It no longer affects you.