President Nelson visits New Zealand

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Lizzy60
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President Nelson visits New Zealand

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eddie
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Re: President Nelson visits New Zealand

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The attacks were a blow to all Pacific islanders, said Elder O. Vincent Haleck, president of the church's Pacific Area Presidency and a native of American Samoa who was accompanied by his wife, Sister Peggy Haleck. He said the donations to the mosques come from a desire to help.

"We're clearly sensitive to what's happened there," he said of Christchurch. "Our hearts were broken when we heard about the tragedy that happened and the loss of life, and so the church is reaching out as it does in these kinds of situations in other parts of the world to lend a hand, to be there for our brothers and sisters who are of another ethnicity and another religious group. That doesn't matter to us. We're there to help and that's the reason why we are helping and continue to help, not just for tomorrow but continuing."

What is the problem with this?

setyourselffree
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Re: President Nelson visits New Zealand

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eddie wrote: May 20th, 2019, 7:42 am The attacks were a blow to all Pacific islanders, said Elder O. Vincent Haleck, president of the church's Pacific Area Presidency and a native of American Samoa who was accompanied by his wife, Sister Peggy Haleck. He said the donations to the mosques come from a desire to help.

"We're clearly sensitive to what's happened there," he said of Christchurch. "Our hearts were broken when we heard about the tragedy that happened and the loss of life, and so the church is reaching out as it does in these kinds of situations in other parts of the world to lend a hand, to be there for our brothers and sisters who are of another ethnicity and another religious group. That doesn't matter to us. We're there to help and that's the reason why we are helping and continue to help, not just for tomorrow but continuing."

What is the problem with this?
Who knows, people are gonna attack no matter what the Church does. Lizzy has been in full attack mode for about 6 months.

Fiannan
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Re: President Nelson visits New Zealand

Post by Fiannan »

New Zealand prime minister Jacinda Ardern left Mormon church to support LGBT rights
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 12676.html
"The world will discover they've got a real leader here. It's an unlikely scenario, a young mother leading a great nation, a peacemaker, a policymaker, a consensus-builder. We're very confident she'll have a great future."
https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900 ... HmX7o26oVI

eddie
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Re: President Nelson visits New Zealand

Post by eddie »

setyourselffree wrote: May 20th, 2019, 7:46 am
eddie wrote: May 20th, 2019, 7:42 am The attacks were a blow to all Pacific islanders, said Elder O. Vincent Haleck, president of the church's Pacific Area Presidency and a native of American Samoa who was accompanied by his wife, Sister Peggy Haleck. He said the donations to the mosques come from a desire to help.

"We're clearly sensitive to what's happened there," he said of Christchurch. "Our hearts were broken when we heard about the tragedy that happened and the loss of life, and so the church is reaching out as it does in these kinds of situations in other parts of the world to lend a hand, to be there for our brothers and sisters who are of another ethnicity and another religious group. That doesn't matter to us. We're there to help and that's the reason why we are helping and continue to help, not just for tomorrow but continuing."

What is the problem with this?
Who knows, people are gonna attack no matter what the Church does. Lizzy has been in full attack mode for about 6 months.
Much longer than that!

setyourselffree
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Re: President Nelson visits New Zealand

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eddie wrote: May 20th, 2019, 7:53 am
setyourselffree wrote: May 20th, 2019, 7:46 am
eddie wrote: May 20th, 2019, 7:42 am The attacks were a blow to all Pacific islanders, said Elder O. Vincent Haleck, president of the church's Pacific Area Presidency and a native of American Samoa who was accompanied by his wife, Sister Peggy Haleck. He said the donations to the mosques come from a desire to help.

"We're clearly sensitive to what's happened there," he said of Christchurch. "Our hearts were broken when we heard about the tragedy that happened and the loss of life, and so the church is reaching out as it does in these kinds of situations in other parts of the world to lend a hand, to be there for our brothers and sisters who are of another ethnicity and another religious group. That doesn't matter to us. We're there to help and that's the reason why we are helping and continue to help, not just for tomorrow but continuing."

What is the problem with this?
Who knows, people are gonna attack no matter what the Church does. Lizzy has been in full attack mode for about 6 months.
Much longer than that!
Can you imagine what an impact it would have if this woman somehow came back to the Church? I think President Nelson is handing out an olive branch. Hopefully she had a good visit with him, and she see's what good the Church does. As for the Mosque donation, I think it is more about the people then donating to a religion.

eddie
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Re: President Nelson visits New Zealand

Post by eddie »

setyourselffree wrote: May 20th, 2019, 8:01 am
eddie wrote: May 20th, 2019, 7:53 am
setyourselffree wrote: May 20th, 2019, 7:46 am
eddie wrote: May 20th, 2019, 7:42 am The attacks were a blow to all Pacific islanders, said Elder O. Vincent Haleck, president of the church's Pacific Area Presidency and a native of American Samoa who was accompanied by his wife, Sister Peggy Haleck. He said the donations to the mosques come from a desire to help.

"We're clearly sensitive to what's happened there," he said of Christchurch. "Our hearts were broken when we heard about the tragedy that happened and the loss of life, and so the church is reaching out as it does in these kinds of situations in other parts of the world to lend a hand, to be there for our brothers and sisters who are of another ethnicity and another religious group. That doesn't matter to us. We're there to help and that's the reason why we are helping and continue to help, not just for tomorrow but continuing."

What is the problem with this?
Who knows, people are gonna attack no matter what the Church does. Lizzy has been in full attack mode for about 6 months.
Much longer than that!
Can you imagine what an impact it would have if this woman somehow came back to the Church? I think President Nelson is handing out an olive branch. Hopefully she had a good visit with him, and she see's what good the Church does. As for the Mosque donation, I think it is more about the people then donating to a religion.
Exactly, its a wonderful thing what our Church does to help, President Nelson knows what he is doing and its very charitable. What do these people want? Criticizing seems to be a bad habit with them.

Fiannan
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Re: President Nelson visits New Zealand

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"One of the topics that came up was the importance of using social media in a proper way," Elder Gong said. "There needs to be a balance between religious freedom and the ability to speak out but also to use it in a way that is responsible, particularly when it involves what children might see. That's something the prime minister was concerned about. She and President Nelson had a very important dialogue on that."
https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900 ... HmX7o26oVI

Yes, children might see an Alex Jones video, or a conservative speaker who attacks political correctness. Does anyone really believe the powers-that-be support open and free discussion on matters that might bring their corruption to light? How many people think that the typical EU bureaucrat, or other people who conferred about curbing the internet, would want a forum like LDS Freedom Forum to exist?

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captainfearnot
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Re: President Nelson visits New Zealand

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Lizzy60 wrote: February 5th, 2017, 8:37 am The Mormons who are promoting Muslim immigration into the USA, under the guise that we believe in religious freedom, are uninformed or misguided. Would they allow the Church of Satan to build next door to their home?

The Muslims believe their God will destroy Christians and Christ. Their God is anti-Christ, and they believe our Christ is the anti-Christ. They are polar opposites of true Christians.
If your worldview equates Muslims with Satanists then it stands to reason that you would be troubled by any semblance of outreach between Christianity and Islam, even for humanitarian purposes.

Fiannan
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Re: President Nelson visits New Zealand

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I have no problem with the Church having an outreach to Muslims. I also have no problem with the Church having an outreach to fundamentalist Mormons. However, in the past couple of years it seems the Church has a more positive attitude towards liberals and globalists than to conservatives and people who believe in national sovereignty.

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Believing Joseph
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Re: President Nelson visits New Zealand

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Be it ordained by the City Council of the City of Nauvoo, that the Catholics, Presbyterians, Methodists, Baptists, Latter Day Saints, Quakers, Episcopals, Universalists, Unitarians, Mohammedans, and all other religious sects and denominations whatever, shall have free toleration, and equal privelages in this city...
It looks like the Prophet Joseph wanted equal rights for Muslims as well as the various Christian sects. President Nelson's support for Muslims in New Zealand after they suffered a violent attack on their right to exist seems fitting in light of this. As do the actions of Mormons who campaign for equality for Muslim immigrants.

setyourselffree
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Re: President Nelson visits New Zealand

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Fiannan wrote: May 20th, 2019, 8:41 am I have no problem with the Church having an outreach to Muslims. I also have no problem with the Church having an outreach to fundamentalist Mormons. However, in the past couple of years it seems the Church has a more positive attitude towards liberals and globalists than to conservatives and people who believe in national sovereignty.
Why do you think that would be?

thestock
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Re: President Nelson visits New Zealand

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Seems lately most of what the Church leaders do is "for show". At the ward levels, I see a lot of people struggling a great deal and the attitude towards them is pretty apathetic.

Last Thurs I drove by our chapel on my way home. There was a van parked in the furthest corner under the trees in an otherwise empty lot. I drove by and there was a woman with her dog. I spoke to the woman. She grew up in the ward but had moved to another state. She told me she lost her job and her husband had died. She had come back to this area, and had nowhere to stay so she was living in her van and sleeping in different places. She had nowhere to do her laundry. I invited her to do her laundry at my house. On Sunday she was at Church, her van still in the parking lot. I spoke to the missionaries and to the Bishop and RS about her. The RS President rolled her eyes and just said "she isnt really in our ward anymore". The Bishop gave me a sad look and said "yeah we are aware of her. She is currently living in our parking lot." That's the best our ward can do? Offer her a parking lot and one brother's home where she can do her laundry?

Christians are being slaughtered almost genocide-style all over the world.

Donating to a Mosque that had a highly-publicized attack seems like PR to me. But what do I know?

lundbaek
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Re: President Nelson visits New Zealand

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"….to create good will." But the Church seems to be offending members who are concerned about supporting principles of the US Constitution, including especially the right of freedom of association, and control of personal private property.

Fiannan
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Re: President Nelson visits New Zealand

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Yes it is PR. I have no problem helping them but maybe a donation event in Sri Lanka might open doors in the Indian sub-continent?

Fiannan
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Re: President Nelson visits New Zealand

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lundbaek wrote: May 20th, 2019, 8:59 am "….to create good will." But the Church seems to be offending members who are concerned about supporting principles of the US Constitution, including especially the right of freedom of association, and control of personal private property.
Do Church leaders hang out in working class communities hit hard by globalization? Or do they tend to have associates who are part of the ruling elite? For years Mormons were like evangelicals in that they were mostly a rural and isolated sub-culture with no power or influence. Now that the leadership has entered the doors of power and influence it is hard to adhere to ones roots. This is no reflection on the truthfulness of the Gospel, just a sociological fact.

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ShockHouse
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Re: President Nelson visits New Zealand

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I dislike her policies, but she seems sincere and I appreciate that.

I also appreciate President Nelson's boldness in delivering her a Book of Mormon. I hope she gets inspired to open it, read, and repent.

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harakim
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Re: President Nelson visits New Zealand

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Why is everyone focusing on the mosque issue? She moved to ban guns and spearheaded a movement to "curb internet extremism" (censor the internet.) That is the real issue here.

lundbaek
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Re: President Nelson visits New Zealand

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Questioning actions and statements by Church authorities

Probably because of my participation in the political arena and awareness of erosions of certain freedoms that the U.S. Constitution was intended to afford us, I think I am more acutely aware of certain actions and statements of Church leaders at all levels that demonstrate to me a degree of disdain for certain principles of the U.S. Constitution, including the right of control of one's property, the right of associations, and for the sovereignty of the United States of America. I have faith that the President of the Church, his counselors, and the Council of the 12 Apostles receive revelation from the Lord on various matters, and that the Lord actually does speak to them. Therefore, I try to accept and follow their advice and counsel. Especially in cases of statements and actions of the President of the Church, I accept his words a divinely inspired and act accordingly. This is difficult for me whenever the President of the Church or one of his counselors says of does something that I consider disdainful of liberty and our national sovereignty, or supportive of the new world order conspiracy. I sometimes struggle to respect the right of the First Presidency to tell us what they believe is right in any given situation, or praise certain national and international figures who I believe seek the demise of my country and liberty as I understand liberty.

I cannot recall a member of the Quorum of the 12 ever saying or doing anything that I considered dangerous to my liberty. Perhaps you can. But at the local level and from within the Church administration in SLC, however, I have been occasionally appalled at what I consider blatant disregard for the right of control of one's property, the right of associations, and for the sovereignty of the United States of America. As an example of such, a few years ago now I told the president of the Hispanic branch in our stake of my awareness of illegal immigrants in the branch and suggested that he respect and uphold the laws regarding illegal immigration and advised him of the Church's statement to the effect that members should not enter another country without proper documentation and not overstay their visas. And another local church authority went so far as to tell one of our sons that I am a "bigot". It was clear to me at that time and it still is clear that many of our local Church authorities actually support illegal immigration and amnesty, and have on occasions conveyed their opinions to church members as righteous and correct. They are either oblivious or not interested in considering the danger to our country of illegal immigration being fomented by persons anxious to make America subservient to a single world government controlled by themselves.

lundbaek
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Re: President Nelson visits New Zealand

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From what I have just now read about New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern, I can sympathize more with the illegal immigrant family in our ward from New Zealand.

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shadow
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Re: President Nelson visits New Zealand

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Lizzy60 wrote: May 20th, 2019, 6:57 am https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900 ... HmX7o26oVI

Who is influencing whom?
Well, the NZ Prime Minister gave time and attention to the Prophet and church so I guess she was influenced enough by the church to do so. It's a good start.

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Elizabeth
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The previous day we welcomed President Nelson to Australia, we did not expect, ask for, nor receive financial assistance. Islam is the Church of Lucifer. I find it offensive to in any way support Muslims, financially or otherwise.

lundbaek
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Re: President Nelson visits New Zealand

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Elizabeth wrote: May 20th, 2019, 12:08 pm The previous day we welcomed President Nelson to Australia, we did not expect, ask for, nor receive financial assistance. Islam is the Church of Lucifer. I find it offensive to in any way support Muslims, financially or otherwise.
I agree with you, Elizabeth, and by nature I'm no "yes man". But I still assume that if President Nelson was doing something wrong the Lord would correct him. I still remember how years ago President Hinkley, during the 2002 Winter Olympic Games in Utah, speaking of the UN Secretary General Kofi Annan, reportedly stated that "We are highly honored to have this good, wonderful leader with us. What a tremendous work he's doing in trying to bring peace and goodness to the people of the world." I'd lost track of when and in which SLC rag that was reported, but a cyber pal found it at http://www.deseretnews.com/oly/view/0,3 ... 73,00.html . I thought to myself, How could any one say that about a so-called world leader who would tell us that "the anticipated reforms will erode national sovereignty, infringe on personal liberties, and lead the world into a system of global governance.".

UN Secretary General Kofi Annan, in a Council on Foreign Relations speech, 4/22/97, stated:
"Clearly we cannot meet the challenges of the new millennium with an instrument designed for the very different circumstances of the middle of the twentieth century. Make no mistake about it, the anticipated reforms will erode national sovereignty, infringe on personal liberties, and lead the world into a system of global governance." Trying to bring peace and goodness to the people of the world, eh what....

setyourselffree
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Re: President Nelson visits New Zealand

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Elizabeth wrote: May 20th, 2019, 12:08 pm The previous day we welcomed President Nelson to Australia, we did not expect, ask for, nor receive financial assistance. Islam is the Church of Lucifer. I find it offensive to in any way support Muslims, financially or otherwise.
That is your opinion. I have several wonderful friends who are Muslim. They are more devout to God than some members of our church.

thestock
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Re: President Nelson visits New Zealand

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lundbaek wrote: May 20th, 2019, 12:52 pm
Elizabeth wrote: May 20th, 2019, 12:08 pm The previous day we welcomed President Nelson to Australia, we did not expect, ask for, nor receive financial assistance. Islam is the Church of Lucifer. I find it offensive to in any way support Muslims, financially or otherwise.
I agree with you, Elizabeth, and by nature I'm no "yes man". But I still assume that if President Nelson was doing something wrong the Lord would correct him. I still remember how years ago President Hinkley, during the 2002 Winter Olympic Games in Utah, speaking of the UN Secretary General Kofi Annan, reportedly stated that "We are highly honored to have this good, wonderful leader with us. What a tremendous work he's doing in trying to bring peace and goodness to the people of the world." I'd lost track of when and in which SLC rag that was reported, but a cyber pal found it at http://www.deseretnews.com/oly/view/0,3 ... 73,00.html . I thought to myself, How could any one say that about a so-called world leader who would tell us that "the anticipated reforms will erode national sovereignty, infringe on personal liberties, and lead the world into a system of global governance.".

UN Secretary General Kofi Annan, in a Council on Foreign Relations speech, 4/22/97, stated:
"Clearly we cannot meet the challenges of the new millennium with an instrument designed for the very different circumstances of the middle of the twentieth century. Make no mistake about it, the anticipated reforms will erode national sovereignty, infringe on personal liberties, and lead the world into a system of global governance." Trying to bring peace and goodness to the people of the world, eh what....
I think you are ascribing some sort of supernatural powers to these General Authorities that they simply do not possess. I mean, we are talking about the same group of men that purchased forged documents from Mark Hoffman because they were scared that people in our Church might learn Joseph Smith really learned about the plates from a talking salamander. What sheds more light on their lack of supernatural power? That they believe a forger outright or that their motivation for believing him was to subvert the truth from their own people?

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