Israel's thermite lab

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Col. Flagg
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Re: Israel's thermite lab

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We've all been sold a pack of lies and deceit RE 9/11 and what really happened. We've also been sold down the river by our elected officials. :x I hate beating a dead horse all the time with my comments about 9/11, the 'Fed' and Washington, DC in general, but they seem to be 'upping the anty' on we the people and are now flaunting their agenda right in our faces and daring us to do something about it. Very few people realize that their financial livelihoods are going to change drastically in the very near future for the worse as our dollar collapses and becomes almost worthless because of what these jackasses in Washington and at the 'Fed' have done intentionally. The fact that this is going to become a tremendous burden and hardship on my ability to take care of my family has me pretty ticked off and wanting to awaken and warn others about the truth behind the 'Fed'.

Knowing that part of 9/11 was to cover-up massive fraud and extortion between Washington, the banks and Wall Street is pretty upsetting and exposes the evil taking place, but then when you add a $14 TRILLION bail-out for these entities on the backs of taxpayers, that's the last straw!!! If justice were to be served, you'd see 90% of all DC politicians in jail, the 'Fed' abolished and every board member arrested for crimes against humanity and then several former Bush admin. officials arrested for complicity and/or involvement in 9/11 and then tossed in Leavenworth! But... we live in a world where money, power and status can buy you freedom... just ask OJ.
Last edited by Col. Flagg on August 31st, 2009, 11:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

p51-mustang
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Re: Israel's thermite lab

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Col, you and I see eye to eye on this stuff. It seems that the older generation has some paradigm that they cant get past when thinking of internal conspiracies. Was Moroni joking when he told us to awake to our awful situation or not? 911 was the very thing he was reffering to when he warned us. The truth of 911 is so obvious to those who take a little time to study the info. The official story is beyond rediculous. It took me about 4 years to come to that conclusion.

Awfull situation indeed!

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Col. Flagg
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Re: Israel's thermite lab

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p51-mustang wrote:Col, you and I see eye to eye on this stuff. It seems that the older generation has some paradigm that they cant get past when thinking of internal conspiracies.

I know... that's Dalton's trouble (and Natasha's, who's no longer visiting this site because there is too much truth that is uncomfortable for her to consider, although she would say it's the character assassinations by some people and the 'unpleasant feelings' she gets when on the boards).

Was Moroni joking when he told us to awake to our awful situation or not? 911 was the very thing he was reffering to when he warned us. The truth of 911 is so obvious to those who take a little time to study the info. The official story is beyond rediculous.

Exactly... LOL!

It took me about 4 years to come to that conclusion.

I have to admit... I bought the official story hook, line and sinker up until about 2005 when some painfully obvious questions were brought to my attention. This started me on a path of research that brought me to a lot of truth about what really took place that day and ever since, I've been trying to awaken others. I was even behind Bush 100% when he went on TV and told Saddam he had 48 hours to get out of town before the bombs began falling. I cheered when Saddam's statue came down and when he was captured. But since then, the truths about the whole thing have hit me like a ton of bricks and the pieces of the puzzle have fallen into place for me. War is big business... this is one fact that makes it easy to see what's going on and when you do enough independent investigation into 9/11, you begin to see big time motive for Cheney's PNAC clan, Larry Silverstein, Israel (I'm sorry to say), our federal 'government' and the military-industrial complex, and motive is all any heinous crime needs.

Awfull situation indeed!

Amen mustang!

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Kurt
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Re: Israel's thermite lab

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p51-mustang wrote:Col, you and I see eye to eye on this stuff. It seems that the older generation has some paradigm that they cant get past when thinking of internal conspiracies. Was Moroni joking when he told us to awake to our awful situation or not? 911 was the very thing he was reffering to when he warned us. The truth of 911 is so obvious to those who take a little time to study the info. The official story is beyond rediculous. It took me about 4 years to come to that conclusion.

Awfull situation indeed!
Very good comment, I agree. I created a topic that addresses the older generation issue of not grasping that secret combinations surround us in our government internally and have gotten above us, and this has been the case for quite some time; not just since Obama got elected.... :roll:
http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... =19&t=8602

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Mark
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Re: Israel's thermite lab

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Yeah us old farts just can't grasp things like you young bucks with steel traps for brains when it comes to various conspiracies. Thats why the old foggy and myself need you youngsters to continue educating us on all your multitudes of proof when it comes to these things. Just think of it as a service you are rendering to the feeble minded. :D

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Col. Flagg
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Re: Israel's thermite lab

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Mark wrote:Yeah us old farts just can't grasp things like you young bucks with steel traps for brains when it comes to various conspiracies. Thats why the old foggy and myself need you youngsters to continue educating us on all your multitudes of proof when it comes to these things. Just think of it as a service you are rendering to the feeble minded. :D
Pleasure to be of service! :wink:

Seriously Mark... no scientific evidence that proves demolition of three skyscrapers on 9/11 means anything to you? The existence of nano-thermite means nothing? Pools of molten metal that lasted up to 3 months after 9/11 is of no consequence? I'm trying to understand your rationale for continuing to deny the possibility of an inside job. You don't see anything wrong with two 110 story buildings peeling like bananas into themselves while disintegrating and being pulverized to dust during collapse... at near free fall speed (10-12 seconds)??? You see no problem with the immediate removal of all of the scrap metal and debris from ground zero before any investigation could be conducted? This alone is a felony and it was the federal 'government' that had it done. What more proof do you need?

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Mark
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Re: Israel's thermite lab

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Seriously Mark... no scientific evidence that proves demolition of three skyscrapers on 9/11 means anything to you? The existence of nano-thermite means nothing? Pools of molten metal that lasted up to 3 months after 9/11 is of no consequence? I'm trying to understand your rationale for continuing to deny the possibility of an inside job. You don't see anything wrong with two 110 story buildings peeling like bananas into themselves while disintegrating and being pulverized to dust during collapse... at near free fall speed (10-12 seconds)??? You see no problem with the immediate removal of all of the scrap metal and debris from ground zero before any investigation could be conducted? This alone is a felony and it was the federal 'government' that had it done. What more proof do you need?

Look my friend every single thing you bring up in your post has been answered and explained ad naseum by multiple debunking groups time and again. They have explanations that are just as plausible and in many cases more so than your explanations. Dalton has continually given you other possible explanations from many credible sources and scientists yet you just ignore them as if they have absolutely no validity.

Your mind is already made up in this issue and nothing will move you from that. That is fine for you to take that approach but it just isn't the approach I choose to take. There are still many different plausible explanations that I can see for what happened on 9-11 and I can give you 100 different takes from what you have concluded and you will ignore every one of them as invalid if they don't line up with yours. This is such a deep felt issue with those like yourself who are convinced of their particular version of truth so it is best to just move on. Nothing will change with how you think no matter what is brought forward. Lets just agree to disagree and move on to things that face us today like the destruction of our Republic.

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Col. Flagg
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Re: Israel's thermite lab

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Mark wrote:
Seriously Mark... no scientific evidence that proves demolition of three skyscrapers on 9/11 means anything to you? The existence of nano-thermite means nothing? Pools of molten metal that lasted up to 3 months after 9/11 is of no consequence? I'm trying to understand your rationale for continuing to deny the possibility of an inside job. You don't see anything wrong with two 110 story buildings peeling like bananas into themselves while disintegrating and being pulverized to dust during collapse... at near free fall speed (10-12 seconds)??? You see no problem with the immediate removal of all of the scrap metal and debris from ground zero before any investigation could be conducted? This alone is a felony and it was the federal 'government' that had it done. What more proof do you need?

Look my friend every single thing you bring up in your post has been answered and explained ad naseum by multiple debunking groups time and again. They have explanations that are just as plausible and in many cases more so than your explanations. Dalton has continually given you other possible explanations from many credible sources and scientists yet you just ignore them as if they have absolutely no validity.

Your mind is already made up in this issue and nothing will move you from that. That is fine for you to take that approach but it just isn't the approach I choose to take. There are still many different plausible explanations that I can see for what happened on 9-11 and I can give you 100 different takes from what you have concluded and you will ignore every one of them as invalid if they don't line up with yours. This is such a deep felt issue with those like yourself who are convinced of their particular version of truth so it is best to just move on. Nothing will change with how you think no matter what is brought forward. Lets just agree to disagree and move on to things that face us today like the destruction of our Republic.
Agreed.

By chance have you heard Glenn Beck the past few days? Man... he's really had his eyes opened to what's going on in Washington. I was shocked to hear him say yesterday that we all need to get past the party paradigm and recognize that both parties are leading us to destruction. And then this morning, he began entertaining the notion that maybe Obama really isn't in control or in charge and that wealthy elitists behind the scenes are. All I can say is that IT IS ABOUT TIME GLENN!!! :D

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Oldemandalton
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Re: Israel's thermite lab

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From My Poor Misguided Friend, Col Flagg; :D
It's an actual special weapons manufacturing plant in the Israeli desert Dalton.

No, Col. This thread is about an article from an Anti-Semetic that IT is an “Israel's Super-Thermite Lab”. Of course as any ‘dyed in the wool’ “Truther”, you accepted this allegation without any evidence or back checking. This is what is wrong with you guys. Accept any absurdity as FACT. :roll: :)
I wasn't aware Bollyn was an anti-Semite until after I had posted the article and did some research into it. My bad, I admit.
No, unfortunately, this has shown how closed-minded you are. :(


My Ignored Question;
How has Israel benefited from 9/11? I have shown, albeit with sarcasm, that this is far from the truth.

Col Flagg Powerful Rejoinder;
Huh
Man, Col, you got me there. That three letter word PROVES without a doubt that Israel benefitted from 9/11. :roll: :lol: I just wasted my time coming up with facts to show how they really didn’t benefit. What an idiot I am. "Huh" :wink: :lol:

I recognize that Israel is in a life or death struggle, but to think that it is the victim all the time which is only defending itself from rogue terrorist groups or that it does not engage in covert or evil operations for its own benefit... is naive. Let's just agree to disagree and move on (again).
No, I am sure part of the reason Israel still exists is BECAUSE of the secret operations of Mossad.

From Kurt;
Very good comment, I agree. I created a topic that addresses the older generation issue of not grasping that secret combinations surround us in our government internally and have gotten above us, and this has been the case for quite some time; not just since Obama got elected....
Hey you little ‘wipper snapper’. Let me tell you I walked 10 miles to school, bare foot, in the snow, uphill both ways… :)

No, actually Kurt I was weaned by my Mother on Conspiracies before you were born. She was a Birtcher from way back. I read Skousen’s “The Naked Communist” when I was a kid and still have my Mom’s first edition. I have no problem in believing in conspiracies, Kurt. I am just carefull to make sure it IS a conspiracy and not a myth that has grown to the size 9/11 has gotten. My suggestion to you is not believe EVERYTHING you read on the internet. I don’t. Study both sides. Then make a determination. That’s what I have done. :)


Sharon, I am hoping that you are not as steeped into the 9/11 myth that you wont ignore eveidence or reasoning that the “Dancing Israelis” is just another part of the web the “Truthers” have taken, twisted into their own interpretations, and wove it into their myth. Please read this article with an open mind Sharon. I know the Col wont. :wink: It challenges his paradigm. :D

Dancing Israelis

There are many claims of 9/11 foreknowledge, but perhaps the most widespread concerns the so-called "Dancing Israelis":
...a group (perhaps multiple groups) of young Israeli men, in which some where found out to be Mossad agents, were filming the Twin Towers on 9/11 before the attack and then were celebrating and taking pictures of themselves with the burning WTC in the background...
http://killtown.blogspot.com/2005/11/da ... n-911.html
This Fox News article is one of the most quoted sources of the foreknowledge claim:
Friday, September 14, 2001 "The New York Times reported Thursday that a group of five men had set up video cameras aimed at the Twin Towers prior to the attack on Tuesday, and were seen congratulating one another afterwards." - FOX
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,34250,00.html
This is referring to another article, though. We browsed the New York Times archive and believe this is what Fox were talking about:
Separately, officials said a group of about five men were now under investigation in Union City, suspected of assisting the hijackers. In addition, the officials said the men had apparently set up cameras near the Hudson River and fixed them on the World Trade Center. They photographed the attacks and were said to have congratulated each other afterward, officials said.
AFTER THE ATTACKS: THE INVESTIGATION; BIN LADEN TIE CITED
By DAVID JOHNSTON AND JAMES RISEN
Published: September 13, 2001
New York Times
The setting up of the cameras “prior to the attacks” is an inference from the phrase “they photographed the attacks” in this report. It’s a reasonable literal interpretation, but that doesn’t necessarily make it true: a New York resident who took photos of what happened on 9/11 may well describe those images as “my pictures of the 9/11 attacks”, for instance, even if they didn’t include any shots of the initial plane impacts.

Even if the unnamed officials were saying the cameras were set up before the attack, these may be reports of the allegations they are investigating. The report does talk of the men “apparently” setting up cameras near the Hudson River, for instance, and that they said “said” to have congratulated each other afterwards. The report itself is very early, published on the 13th, perhaps written less than 24 hours after they were arrested, so it would be surprising if these officials had reached definitive conclusions.

Document the event

Of course it’s difficult to form meaningful conclusions by simply analysing one or two words. That is demonstrated more than adequately here:
Several of the detainees discussed their experience in America on an Israeli talk show after their return home. Said one of the men, denying that they were laughing or happy on the morning of Sept. 11, "The fact of the matter is we are coming from a country that experiences terror daily. Our purpose was to document the event." How did they know there would be an event to document on 9/11?
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/fiveisraelis.html
Here it’s suggested that saying “our purpose was to document the event” is in itself somehow suspicious, that it indicates foreknowledge. Why? We’ve no idea. Here's a Florida blogger talking about a meteor strike on his property, for instance:
Yesterday a small meteorite struck the back forty of PFHQ!!!
By now you may have already heard about this on CNN or MSNBC as they both sent representatives out to our little "starstruck" bit of Florida. We are quite the celebrities ... after all, how many people have meteorites strike their property?
...
I have 3 videos, that I shot yesterday. They are a little long and I apologize for the loading time, but I wanted to document the event and share it with the world.
PureFlorida blog
Does saying "I wanted to document the event" mean the blogger knew the meteor was about to strike? Of course not. It simply means he wanted to record what had happened.
And equally, every single person who pointed a camera at the WTC on 9/11 did so because they wanted to “document the event”. The phrase does not in any sense imply that they knew what was going to happen.

This is also the opinion of Marc Levin, the director of "Protocols of Zion". His clip of the Israelis on the talk show is the one that most commonly appears on YouTube videos as "proof" of foreknowledge, yet here's how he saw it:
I talked to witnesses who saw the 5 Israelis and the NJ police officer who stopped their van. They were taken into custody, questioned and held for 10 weeks. They were eventually cleared by the FBI of any involvement in 9/11 and deported back to Israeli on immigration violations. On Israeli TV, they claimed they were merely taking pictures of a historic event. I included this sequence in the movie because I wanted to show how a real incident that raised legitimate questions could quickly mutate into so called “evidence” that the Israelis were behind the attack and not Al Qaeda. There were even some claiming the 5 Israelis were controlling the planes by remote control from New Jersey.
http://thinkfilm.blogs.com/protocols_of_zion
Eye witness

Let’s abandon the second-hand reports, then, and look at what the witness to this filming actually said. This ABC article crops up a lot:
Maria, who asked us not to use her last name, had a view of the World Trade Center from her New Jersey apartment building. She remembers a neighbor calling her shortly after the first plane hit the towers. She grabbed her binoculars and watched the destruction unfolding in lower Manhattan. But as she watched the disaster, something else caught her eye.
Maria says she saw three young men kneeling on the roof of a white van in the parking lot of her apartment building. "They seemed to be taking a movie," Maria said.
The men were taking video or photos of themselves with the World Trade Center burning in the background, she said. What struck Maria were the expressions on the men's faces. "They were like happy, you know … They didn't look shocked to me. I thought it was very strange," she said.
She found the behavior so suspicious that she wrote down the license plate number of the van and called the police. Before long, the FBI was also on the scene, and a statewide bulletin was issued on the van.
The plate number was traced to a van owned by a company called Urban Moving. Around 4 p.m. on Sept. 11, the van was spotted on a service road off Route 3, near New Jersey's Giants Stadium. A police officer pulled the van over, finding five men, between 22 and 27 years old, in the vehicle. The men were taken out of the van at gunpoint and handcuffed by police.
(ABC source)
There’s nothing here to support the foreknowledge claim. The time frame as to when she noticed them is vague, but it definitely came after the call from a neighbour, which itself followed the first plane hitting the towers.
What’s more, if you look at the full 20/20 transcript from which this story is derived, you find that Maria says she saw the van park after she’d been watching the WTC for a few minutes. And so they did not film the first impact (or ar least, not from here). The report also talks about other issues involved with this story, so we’re reproducing the whole piece:
Copyright 2002 American Broadcasting Companies, Inc.
ABC News

SHOW: 20/20 (10:00 PM ET) - ABC

June 21, 2002 Friday

HEADLINE: Five Israeli men arrested soon after 9/11 might have been working for Israeli intelligence, but likely did not know beforehand about the attacks

ANCHORS: BARBARA WALTERS; JOHN MILLER

Announcer: From Times Square in New York, Barbara Walters and John Miller.

BARBARA WALTERS, co-host: Good evening, and welcome to 20/20.
Tonight, a very important 20/20 investigation into a very ugly story that's made its way around the world since September 11th. The story is that Israel knew more than it would like to admit about the terrorist attack in this coun-try. It's a rumor, but in some Arab countries--including Saudi Arabia, which I visited earlier this year--even educated people told me that they believe it is absolutely true. So how could such a rumor take hold? And John, I know that you have been looking into this now for months.

JOHN MILLER, co-host: We have. And when you try to trace the roots of this rumor, all roads seem to lead to the arrest of of group of Israeli men on the very day of the attacks, men who seemed coincidentally to be in the right place at the right time, and behaving strangely. Why did they become the focus of months of investigation by the FBI and the CIA? Why were they repeatedly asked by the FBI if they had any advance knowledge of the attacks, and in fact, did they? Surprisingly, the tip that led to the arrests of these five men did not come from a spy satellite, it came from a New Jersey housewife.

(VO) On the morning of September 11th, Maria--who asked us not to use her last name--was home preparing for her day, when she got a call from a friend who lived upstairs in the same New Jersey high-rise.

MARIA: She was sitting when she heard a noise, at the same time she felt like it--it shook--like the building shook, she said. She called me immediately. She said, 'You know, there's--there's something wrong, look at your window by the twin towers.' So I grab my binoculars and I could see the towers from my window. And this is where I, you know, I'm looking. I saw the smoke from the top, just from the top of the towers.

MILLER: (VO) After watching for a little while, something caught Maria's at-tention in the parking lot below her window.

MARIA: Like a few minutes must have gone on, and all of a sudden down there I see this van park. And I see three guys on top of the van, and I'm trying, you know, to look at the building but what caught my attention, they seemed to be taking a movie.

MILLER: (VO) Maria says the three young men were kneeling on the roof of a white van. It was parked right here. They were taking pictures of each other with the World Trade Center burning in the background.

MARIA: And I could see that they were, like, happy, you know? They--they--they weren't--they didn't look shocked to me, you know? They didn't look shocked. I thought it was very strange.

MILLER: (VO) Maria found the behavior so suspicious she wrote down the li-cense plate number. She and her husband, Pat, called the police. Soon police and the FBI were on the scene. The license plate was traced to a van owned by a company called Urban Moving. A state-wide alarm was transmitted over the police radio. Deputy Chief ROBERT DEL PRIORE (Weehawken Police Department): It stated in--in effect, to be on the lookout for an Urban Movers van with a license plate number that was given out.

MILLER: (VO) Around 4 PM that day, this white Chevy van was stopped by police near Giants Stadium in New Jersey. Inside it were five men, all in their 20s. These grainy photos of the event were taken by a man who witnessed the scene from a nearby hotel.

(OC) The van was stopped right here. Police pulled the five men out at gun point and handcuffed them. And almost immediately, police say, there was plenty to be suspicious of. One of the men had $4700 in cash hidden in his sock. An-other was carrying two foreign passports. A box cutter was found in the van. But perhaps the biggest surprise for police was when the five men identified themselves as being Israeli.

(VO) According to Officer Scott DeCarlo's police report, one of the passen-gers told him, "We were on the West Side Highway in New York City during the in-cident," not behind Maria's apartment building in New Jersey. The driver told them, 'We are Israeli. We are not your problem. Your problems are our problems. The Palestinians are the problem.' The men ranged in age from 22 to 27. The driver was Sivan Kurzberg. The other passengers included his brother, Paul Kurzberg, Yaron Shmuel, Oded Ellner and Omer Marmari. The men, who all said they worked for Urban Moving, were taken to this new Jersey State Police Station and questioned by the FBI.

(OC) ABC News has learned that after the five men were taken to jail, the en-tire case was transferred out of FBI's criminal division and into its foreign counterintelligence section, which is responsible for espionage cases. One rea-son for the shift, according to our sources, is that the FBI believed Urban Mov-ing may have provided a cover for agents of Israeli intelligence. Urban Moving is owned by Dominic Suter (ph), an Israeli businessman. After the five men were arrested in one of his vans, the FBI got a warrant and searched the company's offices.

Ms. PAULINE STEPKOVICH: (ph) The FBI was here hours. Hours.

MILLER: (VO) Pauline Stepkovich, who lives right across the street from Urban Moving, watched as federal investigators went in and out of the building.

Ms. STEPKOVICH: Two SUVs were filled up with between nine and 12 boxes and computers.

MILLER: (VO) Dominic Suter's attorney confirms that the FBI removed boxes of documents and a dozen computer hard drives from Urban Moving. He insists his client answered all of the FBI's questions. But a few days later, when the FBI wanted to interview Mr. Suter again, he was gone. Our 20/20 cameras took these pictures inside Urban Moving some three months later. And as you can see, it looked like Suter shut down the business in a big hurry. Cell phones and personal effects were lying around Suter's office, the phones were still connected with hundreds of messages waiting. There were job applications to be processed, and the property of dozens of families packed in the warehouse. Dominic Suter's company closed down in such a hurry, some of their customers, like Frank Crisp (ph), were left hanging.

Mr. FRANK CRISP: They were--they were really short on the--on the phone, and it was like they wanted to get off and--and get out.

MILLER: (VO) Dominic Suter cleared out of his New Jersey home, too, and he'd put it up for sale. Suter and his family had returned to Israel. We called him there, but he refused to talk to us about Urban Moving. Was Israeli intelligence using Urban Moving as a cover?
(OC) And if not, why did the company suddenly shut down after the five em-ployees arrested? Why did the owner abruptly leave the country, leaving behind a significant investment, a thriving business, and a lot of unhappy customers? The FBI needed answers to three important questions: Who were these men? What brought them to that parking lot on the morning of September 11th? And did they have any advanced knowledge of what was going to happen that day?

Mr. STEVE GORDON: So you got a group of guys that are taking pictures on top of a roof, of the World Trade Center, they're speaking a foreign language, they got two passports on them, one's got a wad of cash on him and they've got box cutters. Now that's a scary situation.

MILLER: (VO) Steve Gordon was the attorney for the five Israeli detainees. We interviewed him back in October, shortly after 20/20 began investigating this incident. (OC) So who are these kids, and how did they get entangled in this?

Mr. GORDON: They're five young kids who--who left Israel, tried to leave a war zone, if you so will. They came to America. They came here, initially, for a vacation. They came here to work and they started work for a moving company.

MILLER: Now, the witness that we interviewed said that they were acting very strangely.

Mr. GORDON: If her story is to be believed, then of course I don't believe I nor anybody else would--would condone any type of behavior.

MARIA: You know, they're laughing. They're laughing. One of them, I no-ticed, distinctively, put his hand on top of the other guy why they're filming, on top of his shoulder.

Mr. GORDON: Indeed, I did ask them about that, and they denied celebrating, they denied rejoicing.

MILLER: So were they horsing around?

Mr. GORDON: They were not horsing around. And the very first question that I asked Mr. Ellner was, 'Tell me what--what happened.' He said, 'We were taking pictures.' Were they smiling in those photographs? Perhaps they were smiling.

MILLER: (VO) Sources tell 20/20 the FBI developed film from a camera taken from the Israelis, and that it shows the three on top of the white van were smiling and appeared to be clowning around. The five Israelis were held at this federal jail for allegedly overstaying their visas.

(OC) In fact, within two weeks, an immigration judge routinely ordered them deported. But that is when, according to sources who spoke to 20/20, the FBI and CIA put a hold on the case. And over the next two months, some of the men were held in solitary confinement, questioned repeatedly and some of them were given up to seven lie detector tests. Clearly this was more than your average immigration case.

(OC) So when they were being questioned and when they were being polygraphed, what were the questions they were being asked?

Mr. GORDON: I believe the questions surrounded what they were doing in Amer-ica, what were they--were doing on September 11th with regard to whether or not they actually had any involvement in the World Trade Center incident. They were asked questions if they had ever been approached by or hired by any non-United States intelligence community.

MILLER: (VO) Since their arrest, there has been plenty of speculation and ru-mor about who these men were and what they were doing that morning. Eventually The Forward, a respected Jewish newspaper in New York, reported that the FBI concluded that at least two of them were Mossad operatives. That is, agents of Israeli intelligence.

Mr. VINCE CANNISTRARO: When the federal investigators checked the names of the people who had been arrested through a national intelligence database, some of the names came up as hits.

MILLER: (VO) Vince Cannistraro is a former chief of operations for counter-terrorism with the Central Intelligence Agency. Now he's a consultant with ABC News. He says many in the US intelligence community believe that some of the men arrested in the white van were in the US working for Israeli intelligence. They speculate that Urban Moving was being used by Israel as an intelligence front.

Mr. CANNISTRARO: ...set up or exploited for the purpose of launching an op-eration, an intelligence operation, against radical Islamics in the area, par-ticularly in the New Jersey/New York area.

MILLER: (VO) Under the scenario, the spying operation was not aimed against the United States, but at penetrating or monitoring radical fund-raising and support networks in Muslim communities like Patterson, New Jersey, which was one of the places where several of the hijackers lived in the months prior to 9/11.

Mr. CANNISTRARO: Israeli government has been concerned about activity of radical Islamic groups in the United States. There could be a support apparatus to Hamas and Islamic Jihad, two groups which are conducting the majority of the suicide bombings in Israel.

MILLER: (VO) The suspicion that some of the young men might be with Israeli intelligence, coupled with the account of their odd behavior on the van, raised serious questions for investigators.

Mr. CANNISTRARO: The fear of some of the FBI investigators in this particular case was that this group had some advanced knowledge of what was going to happen on 9/11. And once they understood that there was an Israeli connection--an Is-raeli intelligence connection--they became very disturbed, because the implica-tion was that the Israelis may have had some advanced knowledge of the events of 9/11 and hadn't told us.

MILLER: (VO) For the FBI, deciphering the truth about the five Israelis proved to be difficult. One of them, Paul Kurzberg, refused to take a lie de-tector test. But after 10 weeks in jail he did take the polygraph and failed it. One of his lawyers later told us Kurzberg had been reluctant to take the test because he had once work for Israeli intelligence in another country. Later, he took a second polygraph test. His lawyer says the results were more favorable. Sources tell 20/20, after high-level negotiations between Israeli and US gov-ernment officials, a settlement was worked out. And after 71 days, the five Is-raelis were taken out of jail, put on a plane and deported back home. 20/20 traveled to Israel to try and meet the five young men and ask them, were they part of an Israeli intelligence operation in the United States. We went to a small town outside of Jerusalem to meet Paul Kurzberg.

Mr. PAUL KURZBERG: (Through translator) I went to work over there because, I don't know, the situation here is not the best.

MILLER: (VO) This is Kurzberg's younger brother, Sivan, who was one of the three men on top of the van that morning.

Mr. SIVAN KURZBERG: (Through translator) They took away two months of my life. During that time I was supposed to be on a trip that I had planned when I started my military service.

MILLER: (VO) Although Paul and Sivan would not talk with us about the inci-dent, Sivan and two of the other detainees did go on an Israeli talk show after their return. Oded Ellner denied they were laughing or happy that today.

Mr. ODED ELLNER: (Through translator, from Israeli talk show) Nothing of the kind, the fact of the matter is, we are coming from a country that experiences terror daily. Our purpose was to document the event.

MILLER: (VO) Ellner also complained that they had been mistreated and sub-jected to repeated interrogations.

Mr. ELLNER: (Through translator, from Israeli talk show) And at that point, we were taken for another round of questioning, this time related to our alleg-edly being members of Mossad.

MILLER: (VO) Their attorney in Israel is Ram Horvitz.

Mr. RAM HORVITZ: This story about the five boys being connected with Israeli intelligence is the most stupid and ridiculous story that I ever heard, and it is nonsense. I don't know who invented this story.

Mr. MARK REGAV: These men were not involved in any way in any intelligence operation in the United States.

MILLER: (VO) Mark Regav, the spokesman for the Israeli embassy in Washington, goes even further to say the issue was never even discussed with the US offi-cials.

Mr. REGAV: These five Israelis were not involved in any intelligence opera-tion in the United States. And the Americans, the American intelligence au-thorities, have never raised this issue with us. The story is simply false.

MILLER: (VO) Source tell 20/20 there is still debate within the FBI over whether or not the young men were spies. But many in the US intelligence commu-nity believe that some of the men were engaged in espionage for Israel. However, sources also tell us, even if they were spies, there was no evidence to conclude they had advanced knowledge of the terrorist attacks of 9/11.

Mr. CANNISTRARO: The investigation, at the end of the day, after all of the polygraphs, all of the field work, all of the cross-checking, the intelligence work, concluded that they probably did not have advanced knowledge of 9/11.

WALTERS: John, so the FBI has concluded that these men did not have any ad-vanced knowledge of the attack on the Trade Center.

MILLER: And they seem to be comfort with that conclusion.

WALTERS: OK. Then what were they doing looking at the World Trade Center then?

MILLER: They say that they read about the attack on the Internet, went to the roof of the moving company, couldn't really see it, and then went to the higher ground to get a better view and to take pictures.

WALTERS: Well, all right, but why were they smiling?

MILLER: Well, that's been the most difficult question. And the only explana-tions we've had, both from the lawyer and from the Israeli government, is chalk-ing that up just to immature conduct.

WALTERS: But the bottom line is, that there is no evidence that these men knew about the attacks in advance.

MILLER: No. And I think the FBI and the CIA spent a great deal of time try-ing to drill down to that answer and found no proof of that.

WALTERS: Well, I hope that we have put this rumor to rest once and for all.
MILLER: We've certainly tried.

WALTERS: We'll be right back.
This doesn’t completely end the issue, as there are other reports of them “dancing” prior to this (also denied). Their lawyer said:
On the day of the disaster, three of the five boys went up on the roof of the building where the company office is located," said Gordon. "I'm not sure if they saw the twin towers collapse, but, in any event, they photographed the ruins right afterwards. One of the neighbors who saw them called the police and claimed they were posing, dancing and laughing, against the background of the burning towers. The five denied dancing. I presume the neighbor was not near them and does not understand Hebrew. Furthermore, the neighbor complained that the cheerful gang on the roof spoke Arabic. As far as I understand it, that neighbor has had previous problems with the company, and she could have been waiting for an opportunity to avenge the owners. Anyhow, the three left the roof, took an Urban truck, and drove to a parking lot, located about a five-minute drive from the offices. They parked, stood on the roof of the truck to get a better view of the destroyed towers and took photographs. A woman who was in the building above the lot testified that she saw them smiling and exchanging high-fives. She and another neighbor called the police and reported on Middle-Eastern looking people dancing on the truck. They copied and reported the license plates.
http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/02/03/WTC/spies10.html
However, there’s still no witness evidence to support the claim that they were set up and filming before the attacks occurred.

The 9-11 Conspiracies

Channel 4 in the UK interviewed Maria, three of the Israelis and others involved for their documentary "The 9/11 Conspiracies". They reported receiving information that Urban Moving was a front for Israeli intelligence, but repeated the Israeli's story that they didn't arrive and begin filming until after the attacks had begun.

Related claims

This page is intended to focus solely on the foreknowledge issue, but plainly (as you can see above) there are other considerations, too. By all means read the Killtown article, WhatReallyHappened page and anything else you can find for more on these, but be sure you check sources carefully. We’ve seen this story used as evidence that the Israelis’ van contained explosives, for instance:
Three arrested with van full of explosives
4:27:11 AM
Reports from New York are saying three people have been arrested with a van of explosives.
The van was stopped along the New Jersey turn-pike near the George Washington Bridge.
It was not clear why police stopped the van but when they did they found it was laden down with tonnes of explosives.
http://archives.tcm.ie/breakingnews/200 ... y23429.asp
But mysteriously this correction from the same source, issued less than 8 minutes after the first story, doesn’t get the same attention:
Police confirm arrests but deny explosives find
4:34:43 AM
NYPD officers have confirmed the arrest of three men on the New Jersey turn-pike.
However officials denied any explosives were found in the van.
Officials declined to say why exactly the men had been arrested.
http://archives.tcm.ie/breakingnews/200 ... y23430.asp
More on this here.
http://www.911myths.com/index.php/A_tru ... explosives

Question everything you read, then (even here). And we may return to this topic at a future date.

Footnote

One curious footnote to this story appeared three years later, when four of the Israelis filed a lawsuit against the Department of Justice:
September 14, 2004
Four young Israelis who were arrested by American federal agents on 9/11 have filed a law suit against the Department of Justice in the United States District Court in New York.
The law suit alleges that law enforcement officers and officials of the Bureau of Prisons unlawfully incarcerated them for an extended period of time and violated their civil rights during their more than two month imprisonment in the Metropolitan Detention Center (MDC) in 2001. The four plaintiffs claim that they were held incommunicado without access to attorneys or family, subjected to rough interrogations, physically assaulted, deprived of sleep and subjected to racists taunting by guards.

The law suit seeks millions of dollars in compensation.

The four plaintiffs are represented by Israeli attorney Nitsana Darshan-Leitner, Esq. and New York attorney Robert Tolchin, Esq.

The Israelis were working for a New Jersey moving company when their truck was stopped by police near the George Washington Bridge. When it was discovered that they possessed foreign drivers licenses, the nervous officers placed them under arrest as suspects in the 9/11 terrorist attacks. They were handed over to federal agents for weeks of interrogations.

Following the 9/11 terrorist attacks, conspiracy theorists in the Arab and Islamic world spread reports that Israel was behind the terrorist atrocities. Islamic and neo-Nazi groups pointed to the arrests of the Israelis as "proof" that the Mossad and Israel had perpetrated the attack on the World Trade Center. Hate groups around the world posted hundreds of stories centering on the arrests of the Israelis and their alleged role in the 9/11 attacks. The fact that the four were eventually cleared of all suspicions and released did not put the libels to rest and stories about the Israelis are still regularly appearing on the internet.

American human rights groups have charged that the Bureau of Prisons violated the civil liberties of those detained by the United States following 9/11. Following an internal investigation the Department of Justice released a report in June 2003 which, in part, found:

"the evidence indicates a pattern of physical and verbal abuse by some correctional officers at the MDC against some September 11 detainees, particularly during the first months after the attack."

According to the plaintiffs' Israeli counsel Nitsana Darshan-Leitner: "The infamous arrest of these young Israelis on 9/11 has been used by anti-Semites worldwide as `proof' of Israel's involvement in the World Trade Center attack. Our clients are seeking compensation for the harm they suffered in the MDC by prison officials. In addition, the law suit will serve as an important public forum to debunk the lie that Israel or the Mossad was behind the 9/11 terrorist attacks. It will show that there was no Jewish conspiracy as the Arab world continues to claim and put an end to this racist blood libel."
http://www.kokhavivpublications.com/200 ... 41656.html
September 14, 2004

Four Israelis arrested in the United States on September 11, 2001, have filed a multimillion-dollar civil lawsuit in the US District Court in New York against United States Attorney-General John Ashcroft and wardens of the Federal Bureau of Prisons.

The suit, filed Monday, alleges that their two-month detention was illegal and that during that time they were physically abused and their civil rights were violated.

The Attorney General's Office said it would only comment on the case in court.

According to their Israeli attorney, Nitsana Darshan-Leitner, Israelis Yaron Shmuel, Omer Gavriel Marmari, and Silvan and Paul Kurzberg were working for a New Jersey moving company when their truck was stopped by police near the George Washington Bridge. Upon seeing that they held foreign driver's licenses, the officer arrested them as suspects in the September 11 attack.

"The four plaintiffs claim that they were held incommunicado without access to attorneys or family, subjected to rough interrogations, physically assaulted, deprived of sleep and subjected to racist taunting by guards," said Darshan-Leitner.

In the post-September 11 panic, their basic rights were ignored even though they signed papers agreeing to immediate deportation and had plane tickets, said New York attorney Robert Tolchin. According to the complaint, some 1,200 men from the Middle East, South Asia and elsewhere who were not US citizens and who appeared to be Arab or Muslim were held on suspicion of being terrorist.

Their detention was "often based on vague suspicions rooted in racial, religious, ethnic, and/or national origin stereotypes rather than in hard facts," according to the complaint. Non-Muslim or non-Israeli detainees were not treated so harshly.

"They were never charged with a crime, they were detained so that the FBI could investigate whether maybe they had done something," said Tolchin.

Four pages of the complaint list the abuses the four Israelis suffered in detention, including failure to be provided with adequate food, medical attention and toiletries. They were held in solitary confinement and denied religious expression.

"Plaintiffs were disciplined for attempting to pray in their cells. Plaintiff Yaron Shmuel was forced out of his cell, thrown against walls and placed in a cell without a mattress, sheets or blanket as a punishment for having prayed out loud," alleged the complaint.
"One of the defendant guards told the plaintiff Yaron Shmuel that he should commit suicide because 'we need to kill all the Jews.'

"The plaintiffs were often beaten by the defendant guards, including cuffing hands behind the plaintiff's backs, twisting arms, kicks to the ribs, and sitting on the plaintiffs while they lay on a metal bed," alleged the complaint.

"The plaintiffs were subjected to a game that the defendant guards called 'Ping Pong,' in which the guards would throw inmates between each other and against walls."
In this case, "the abuse started from the top," said Tolchin.

The suit blames Ashcroft for authorizing and condoning "the unreasonable and excessively harsh conditions under which the plaintiffs were detained" in violation of the Fourth Amendment.

According to the suit, the four should not have been held because Israel is a close ally of the United States. "As Israelis and as Jews, plaintiffs themselves are sworn enemies of al-Qaida and Osama bin Laden."

A similar suit in the same court has been filed by the Center for Constitutional Rights on behalf of Ibrahim Turkmen and other Muslim men similarly held. Tolchin said their case is likely to be viewed in light of decisions made in the Turkmen case.
Jerusalem Post source
Paul Kurzberg, an Israeli from Pardess Hanna, was in the office of his New Jersey moving company on Sept. 11, 2001, when the first plane hit the World Trade Center.

Like many Israeli movers in the New York area, Kurzberg, who was in his late 20s, was not legally authorized to work in the United States.

But on Sept. 11, that thought was distant from his mind as he and his friends piled into a company van after the second plane hit the World Trade Center to find a better vantage point to photograph the historic terrorist attack.

It proved to be a critical mistake.

Caught in a traffic jam near the George Washington Bridge, which connects northern New Jersey to Manhattan, the Israelis hailed a police officer to ask directions to Brooklyn. The cops pulled the five Israelis from the vehicle, drew their guns and ordered the men to lie on the ground, according to the Israelis’ account.

It was the beginning of a nearly two-month ordeal, the Israelis said, that landed them first in a local jail and then in solitary confinement in a Brooklyn prison, subjected them to physical and verbal abuse and ended in their deportation to Israel.

Now four of the Israelis are suing, demanding justice and compensation in a lawsuit filed Monday, Sept. 13, against U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft, FBI Director Robert Mueller, the director of the Federal Bureau of Prisons and a host of wardens, police officers and corrections officers involved in their arrest and imprisonment.

“The infamous arrest of these young Israelis on 9/11 has been used by anti-Semites worldwide as ‘proof’ of Israel’s involvement in the World Trade Center attack,” said Nitsana Darshan-Leitner, the Israeli lawyer representing the four Israeli plaintiffs.

“Our clients are seeking compensation for the harm they suffered in the Metropolitan Detention Center by prison officials,” she said.

The lawsuit, filed in U.S. District Court in Brooklyn, alleges that the Israelis were arrested without probable cause; subjected to harsh and unreasonable conditions; penalized for trying to observe Jewish traditions and were held far longer than necessary.

A spokesman for the Department of Justice, Charles Miller, declined to comment, saying, “Our response would be filed in court.”

A spokesman for the Bureau of Prisons did not respond to a request for comment.
http://www.jewishsf.com/content/2-0-/mo ... story.html
We've not yet discovered what happened to the case, and the lack of information suggests it never reached court. Still, bringing the case at all is hardly what you'd expect if these really were Mossad agents somehow connected to 9/11. Surely three years on they'd want to keep their heads down, not re-open the whole affair?

http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Dancing_Israelis
Facts;
1.These guys were NOT Mossad agents but illegal aliens from Israel who worked for a moving Co.

2.They did not start filming until AFTER the planes hit not before.

3.They DID celebrate, but not because it was a successful secret operation but because now America finally found out what it was like to live in terror as they had done ALL of their lives. Not very wise to do right after an attack. DOH! :lol:

Lets look at it logically too. Do you really think Mossad agents would expose their operation by publically FILMING their actual operation? How stupid is that? :roll:

Also why bother filming it when you could turn on any TV station in the country, and the world for that matter, and get hours of footage of the planes hitting and the destruction afterward? Pretty silly when you think about it. Sharon, do not take the twisted version of the “Truthers”. Please research this stuff out.



Turning On the Light Amongst the Darkness :wink:
Old Man Dalton
:D

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Kurt
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Re: Israel's thermite lab

Post by Kurt »

Mark wrote:Yeah us old farts just can't grasp things like you young bucks with steel traps for brains when it comes to various conspiracies. Thats why the old foggy and myself need you youngsters to continue educating us on all your multitudes of proof when it comes to these things. Just think of it as a service you are rendering to the feeble minded. :D
:lol: I love this response, I laughed out loud. Thanks.

I really do like you Mark,Shadow, OMD and the many others I might disagree with on varying issues, you know that right? I think we all have some good things to share, and I have learned things on both sides. Thanks. :)

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Re: Israel's thermite lab

Post by Kurt »

Hey you little ‘wipper snapper’. Let me tell you I walked 10 miles to school, bare foot, in the snow, uphill both ways…

No, actually Kurt I was weaned by my Mother on Conspiracies before you were born. She was a Birtcher from way back. I read Skousen’s “The Naked Communist” when I was a kid and still have my Mom’s first edition. I have no problem in believing in conspiracies, Kurt. I am just carefull to make sure it IS a conspiracy and not a myth that has grown to the size 9/11 has gotten. My suggestion to you is not believe EVERYTHING you read on the internet. I don’t. Study both sides. Then make a determination. That’s what I have done.
:lol: I didn't realize how much snow there is in Las Vegas. :lol:

I really do appreciate you OMD, and thank you for most everything you post here!! I'll try to be a better wipper snapper from now on. :wink:

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ready2prepare
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Re: Israel's thermite lab

Post by ready2prepare »

Thanks for your reply and posting, OMD.

This just goes to show, as I've been told so many times:

"There are 2 sides to every story, and
somewhere IN BETWEEN lies the truth."

Ah...and that's where it gets interesting. :)

Best Regards,
Sharon (Making the Best of Basics) in Mississippi

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Col. Flagg
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Re: Israel's thermite lab

Post by Col. Flagg »

Oldemandalton wrote:
From My Poor Misguided Friend, Col Flagg; :D
It's an actual special weapons manufacturing plant in the Israeli desert Dalton.

No, Col. This thread is about an article from an Anti-Semetic that IT is an “Israel's Super-Thermite Lab”. Of course as any ‘dyed in the wool’ “Truther”, you accepted this allegation without any evidence or back checking. This is what is wrong with you guys. Accept any absurdity as FACT. :roll: :)

Dalton, it is a special weapons lab! Yes, the article says super thermite is manufactured there without any evidence backing it up, but I already admitted that and that I was merely posting the article as a possibility... not to indict Israel and use this article as proof. I'm also getting a kick out of your accusations of accepting allegations without any evidence to back it up... this is precisely what you have been doing with 9/11 all along in your quest to discredit the truth... buying junk science that any debunker dreams up to satisfy your denial of what really happened. Sorry old man, but we've got science, physics and scientific evidence on our side... all you 'debunkers' have are fruitless attempts to discredit scientific evidence with theories and junk science. You need to step back and think about your attitude here... no proof has ever been offered that bin Laden and 19 Arabs pulled off 9/11... heck, bin Laden is not even wanted by the FBI for it, yet, you continue to buy the official story hook, line and sinker, even in the face of scientific and factual evidence that proves three skyscrapers were demolished on 9/11. I ask you... who's the fool here and which one is the conspiracy theory?
I wasn't aware Bollyn was an anti-Semite until after I had posted the article and did some research into it. My bad, I admit.
No, unfortunately, this has shown how closed-minded you are. :(

:lol: Dalton, I guarantee I've spent a lot more time researching 9/11 than you have. I'm aware of every aspect to both sides of the issue and I've got to tell you... anyone who believes in the official conspiracy theory (that an old man on dialysis in a cave in Afghanistan) and 19 Arabs pulled off 9/11 all by themselves... is either in complete denial that it could have been an inside job or they've got rocks in their head.


My Ignored Question;
How has Israel benefited from 9/11? I have shown, albeit with sarcasm, that this is far from the truth.

Col Flagg Powerful Rejoinder;
Huh
Man, Col, you got me there. That three letter word PROVES without a doubt that Israel benefitted from 9/11. :roll: :lol: I just wasted my time coming up with facts to show how they really didn’t benefit. What an idiot I am. "Huh" :wink: :lol:

Dalton, if you are truly unaware of how Israel has benefited from 9/11, then we shouldn't even be discussing this topic because you've got a LOT of homework to do.

I recognize that Israel is in a life or death struggle, but to think that it is the victim all the time which is only defending itself from rogue terrorist groups or that it does not engage in covert or evil operations for its own benefit... is naive. Let's just agree to disagree and move on (again).
No, I am sure part of the reason Israel still exists is BECAUSE of the secret operations of Mossad.

That's probably true... but Israel (Mossad) has also been involved in false flag ops in the past. I'll bet you're not even aware of this...

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/margolis12.html

Facts;
1.These guys were NOT Mossad agents but illegal aliens from Israel who worked for a moving Co.

The fact is, they were from Israel and had set up their camera and trained it on the twin towers BEFORE the planes struck. Eyewitnesses have testified to this Dalton.

2.They did not start filming until AFTER the planes hit not before.

Wrong... the NY Times ran an article indicating that eyewitnesses noticed them train their cameras on the towers before the planes struck. Furthermore, it was later confirmed that the five detained Israelis were in fact Mossad agents. They were held in custody for 71 days before being quietly released.

3.They DID celebrate, but not because it was a successful secret operation but because now America finally found out what it was like to live in terror as they had done ALL of their lives. :lol: Whatever. Talk about absurdity.

Lets look at it logically too. Do you really think Mossad agents would expose their operation by publically FILMING their actual operation? How stupid is that? :roll:

Tell me who these men thought would be filming the WTC's before the first plane struck? The only footage of the first plane hitting the north tower is from the Naudet brothers. Maybe they wanted their work on film, I don't know?

Also why bother filming it when you could turn on any TV station in the country, and the world for that matter, and get hours of footage of the planes hitting and the destruction afterward? Pretty silly when you think about it.

Only the Naudet brothers have film footage of the north tower being hit (and these 5 men)... that is rare footage.

Sharon, do not take the twisted version of the “Truthers”. Please research this stuff out.

'Twisted version'? :lol: You need to take a good, hard look at what your version demands intellectually.

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shadow
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Re: Israel's thermite lab

Post by shadow »

Kurt wrote:I really do like you Mark,Shadow, OMD and the many others I might disagree with on varying issues, you know that right? I think we all have some good things to share, and I have learned things on both sides. Thanks. :)
Thanks Kurt and I enjoy your comments too, but please don't lump me in with that old generation group. It would be fun to sit on my porch and yell at the neighbor kids or sit back in my recliner and watch CNN all day while sucking on a Werthers but I have things to do. Plus I still have real teeth and eat dinner after 6, not before 4. I don't drive a Buick. My pants don't go up to my armpits either (I realize Mark needs to wear loose clothing to hide his colostomy bag so I don't want to be tough on him, but OMD has no excuse). Oh, I also don't believe the official government story on 911.

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Re: Israel's thermite lab

Post by Mark »

Okay Shadow you turncoat thats the last time I tell you in confidence anything about my normal bodily functions or lack thereof! I guess you find out who your real friends are when you divulge sensitive information and see it spread around at the speed of the internet. I'm a bigger man than you though Bro. so I won't say a thing about the wifes dresses. :shock:

And while we are on the subject of 9-11 since when did I say that I believed everything the govt. has said about 9-11? I don't trust the govt. to tell me the truth about much of anything. I also don't believe every conspiratorial storyline that comes down the internet pike at the speed of sound. Ever hear of CYA and gross incompetence? There was a buttload of both going on as relating to 9-11 govt versions. That doesn't mean though that the inside job theory holds all the cards either. A little common sense can go a long way in decifering the truth. :idea:

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Re: Israel's thermite lab

Post by shadow »

Mark wrote:And while we are on the subject of 9-11 since when did I say that I believed everything the govt. has said about 9-11? I don't trust the govt. to tell me the truth about much of anything. I also don't believe every conspiratorial storyline that comes down the internet pike at the speed of sound. Ever hear of CYA and gross incompetence? There was a buttload of both going on as relating to 9-11 govt versions. That doesn't mean though that the inside job theory holds all the cards either. A little common sense can go a long way in decifering the truth. :idea:
I couldn't have said it better my friend!

PS, I dont' remember telling you about the dresses. Now I'm outed :oops:
Hey, it's 4:20, how was Sizzler?

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armedtotheteeth
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Re: Israel's thermite lab

Post by armedtotheteeth »

:lol: :lol:
Hey, it's 4:20, how was Sizzler?
:lol:

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ready2prepare
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Re: Israel's thermite lab

Post by ready2prepare »

OMD said:
Sharon, do not take the twisted version of the
“Truthers”. Please research this stuff out.


Wow...this is beginning to sound almost like a religious discussion.

Just yesterday I had the opportunity to chat by phone with an old
high-school friend with whom I had lost contact for 40 years. Back
then she was a Baptist and I was a religious cynic. Yesterday I found
out that she is still a Baptist and she found out I am a member of the
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

That led to a tense moment which fortunately passed quickly,
but she could have just as easily said similar words to me about
the "Mormons" and their "twisted version" of things...

So what am I getting at here?

Simply, that there's more than one way to look at things, and
things are not always what they seem...

It all depends on one's perspective, or "frame of reference" or
"lense" through which one is viewing things, also referred to as
one's "paradigm."

Two people can take exactly the same "facts" and reach
entirely opposite conclusions based on their individual
paradigms.

Which is why (IMHO) it is so important for us to recognize that
"facts" are always subject to interpretation, and that we CAN
be mislead if we depend on "facts" alone to guide our research.

So yes, be assured, OMD that I have done (and continue to do)
my research, relying on the Spirit to guide me through the
morass of facts to the truth--about 911 and everything else.

And if getting to the truth requires that I drop a few old beliefs
and prejudices along the way which have clouded the lense
through which I view things, then so be it.

That's why I tend to offer information rather than "facts" and
invite people to form their own conclusions.

Best Regards,
Sharon (Making the Best of Basics) in Mississippi

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Col. Flagg
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Re: Israel's thermite lab

Post by Col. Flagg »

Mark wrote:And while we are on the subject of 9-11 since when did I say that I believed everything the govt. has said about 9-11? I don't trust the govt. to tell me the truth about much of anything. I also don't believe every conspiratorial storyline that comes down the internet pike at the speed of sound.

'Conspiratorial storyline'? Mark, Mark, Mark... 9/11 went from a conspiracy 'theory' to a conspiracy fact a long time ago! There is so much overwhelming evidence, both scientific and coincidental, it makes your head spin. To be honest, how anyone can still maintain it was all bin Laden and 19 Arabs with boxcutters means one of two things... denial or ignorance, plain and simple. Sorry.

Ever hear of CYA and gross incompetence? There was a buttload of both going on as relating to 9-11 govt versions. That doesn't mean though that the inside job theory holds all the cards either. A little common sense can go a long way in decifering the truth. :idea:

Is there incompetence in government? Absolutely. However, with 9/11, you had massive complicity.

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Re: Israel's thermite lab

Post by Oldemandalton »

From Kurt;
I didn't realize how much snow there is in Las Vegas.

I really do appreciate you OMD, and thank you for most everything you post here!! I'll try to be a better wipper snapper from now on.


No problem dude. I love you too man.(sniffle sniffle) :D


OMD

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ready2prepare
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Re: Israel's thermite lab

Post by ready2prepare »

(Group hugs all around).

Now...that's much better! :D

Best Regards,
Sharon (Making the Best of Basics) in Mississippi

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Oldemandalton
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Re: Israel's thermite lab

Post by Oldemandalton »

From Mark
And while we are on the subject of 9-11 since when did I say that I believed everything the govt. has said about 9-11? I don't trust the govt. to tell me the truth about much of anything. I also don't believe every conspiratorial storyline that comes down the internet pike at the speed of sound. Ever hear of CYA and gross incompetence? There was a buttload of both going on as relating to 9-11 govt versions. That doesn't mean though that the inside job theory holds all the cards either. A little common sense can go a long way in decifering the truth.
Amen, Brother. :)

Wow...this is beginning to sound almost like a religious discussion.

Just yesterday I had the opportunity to chat by phone with an old
high-school friend with whom I had lost contact for 40 years. Back
then she was a Baptist and I was a religious cynic. Yesterday I found
out that she is still a Baptist and she found out I am a member of the
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

That led to a tense moment which fortunately passed quickly,
but she could have just as easily said similar words to me about
the "Mormons" and their "twisted version" of things...

So what am I getting at here?

Simply, that there's more than one way to look at things, and
things are not always what they seem...

It all depends on one's perspective, or "frame of reference" or
"lense" through which one is viewing things, also referred to as
one's "paradigm."

Two people can take exactly the same "facts" and reach
entirely opposite conclusions based on their individual
paradigms.

Which is why (IMHO) it is so important for us to recognize that
"facts" are always subject to interpretation, and that we CAN
be mislead if we depend on "facts" alone to guide our research.

So yes, be assured, OMD that I have done (and continue to do)
my research, relying on the Spirit to guide me through the
morass of facts to the truth--about 911 and everything else.

And if getting to the truth requires that I drop a few old beliefs
and prejudices along the way which have clouded the lense
through which I view things, then so be it.

That's why I tend to offer information rather than "facts" and
invite people to form their own conclusions.

Best Regards,
Sharon (Making the Best of Basics) in Mississippi

Thanks Sharon. I agree totally with what you have said. Some of my beliefs have changed from discussions on this Forum. It is a great place to exchange ideas and info. It is threads like this that show how absurd people are in their “beliefs”. They will take any “fact” that they find on the internet as “truth”. It gets batted around the internet so much that lies become “fact” and gullible or folks with not enough time to check the lies believe them as truth. THIS is what we have to be leery of.

9/11 is a perfect example. My Friend, Col Flagg, gives me scientific “proof” that the Twin Towers were demoed and ignores all of the evidence I find on the contrary. In this ‘Information Age’ we are deluged with tons of FALSE information. It is up to us to determine which is false and which is not. This is very time consuming so many are unable to do so. This thread is a perfect example along with the ‘Dancing Israelis’. Things get put into this raging river of information and get accepted by those who dip their cups into it. We need to be more carful in what we accept return back into the information river.

OMD

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Col. Flagg
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Posts: 16961
Location: Utah County

Re: Israel's thermite lab

Post by Col. Flagg »

Mark, Dalton... I'm sorry for coming across so strongly RE 9/11... I need to respect your views and opinions more... I tend to get frustrated when others can't see what I do, but that's probably owing to all of the research I've done over the past 4 years on the subject. You guys are brothers to me and we are on the same side in this fight to save our country from conspiring men who want to transform it and us into something awful... that's all that matters right now. We need to stop Obama and what he and the evil men pulling his strings behind the scenes want to do to us, although, you could make an argument that most of the damage has already been done. These 'Czars' he is appointing should scare everyone to death because these are guys who are flat out commies who want to turn the U.S. into Nazi Germany (or worse). :x This Van Jones character he has appointed as his 'green' Czar attended Jeremiah Wright's church and he sounds just like him in scolding America and calling for it to be damned. Worse yet, his new FCC guy loves what Hugo Chavez has done in Venezuela in suppressing dissenting voices and shutting down radio and TV stations critical of his 'government'. The Obama administration is moving faster than Hugo Chavez is in Venezuela to transform the U.S. into a fascist communist state. I hope Beck is watching his back and has plenty of bodyguards. :shock:
Last edited by Col. Flagg on September 1st, 2009, 5:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

p51-mustang
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1634
Location: Harrisville, Utah

Re: Israel's thermite lab

Post by p51-mustang »

Mark's colostomy bag has this weird saying on the side of it. Not sure what it means...

“Caution: Bush foreign policy being prepared” :D

p51-mustang
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1634
Location: Harrisville, Utah

Re: Israel's thermite lab

Post by p51-mustang »

9/11 is a perfect example. My Friend, Col Flagg, gives me scientific “proof” that the Twin Towers were demoed and ignores all of the evidence I find on the contrary. In this ‘Information Age’ we are deluged with tons of FALSE information. It is up to us to determine which is false and which is not. This is very time consuming so many are unable to do so. This thread is a perfect example along with the ‘Dancing Israelis’. Things get put into this raging river of information and get accepted by those who dip their cups into it. We need to be more carful in what we accept return back into the information river.
Good points OMD. What do you have to say about the fake Bin ladens I posted on page one of this thread? They are pretty hard to argue with. Why would the CIA put out false info and make up bogus videos of supposed 9-11 criminal Bin Laden if the official story is true and he and his buddies pulled this whole thing off? I would really like to hear your take on that.

I'm sure the govt' has some good reason for making fake videos and lying to us right?

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