Replenishing soil in gardening

[gardener4life]

I wanted to ask how often you guys do a deep level soil replenishment in your gardens. I feel like last year we didn't do well in the garden. Two years ago and three years ago we had so many tomatoes that we were giving them away. We were bringing in about a (small?) basket per day. It was so exciting. But it seems that there was a sort of downward trend of the crop 2 years ago being lower than the one 3 years ago. And last year we got almost nothing.

Last year was rough for most gardeners that I know in Utah County.

Anyway, I was thinking some of it may be related to how often people do a deep level soil replenishment with spreading out a lot of manure or wood chips.

How often should someone do this? (And yes I'm aware most people don't do it in middle of the garden season but may do it in late fall after the season is over, etc. etc.

In Utah, we get this heavy clay soil...at least in South end of Utah County, so it can be a bit tricky working with it in that some plants don't do as well in it. I'd appreciate any suggestions on this.

Also I don't mind bouncing ideas back to help others.

(And first year doing potatoes...how do you know when they are ready to be dug up? Right now the plants are wilting and sort of dying(?), even while being fed plenty of water...and weeds overtaking them. Not sure if this is just because they are ready to be dug up, or because of the pests?)

[will]

I use rabbit manure, you can put it directly on the garden without composting it and my garden boxes do amazing, I also add a bit of quail manure, it doesn't take much, 4 rabbits produce plenty of fertilizer and fresh meat for cheap, and the quail give me plenty of eggs, I get about 10 per day more than enough for my family. Off of about 20 quail.

[will]

Also wait till the potatoes die then dig them up., I plant in about 10 inches of soil in raised beds. Sq ft gardening is pretty effective. Good luck.

[gardener4life]

If the soil is clay and not plowed will that prevent there from being optimum potato production?

I hadn't thought of using quail or rabbits. Are quail more prolific than chickens with production of eggs?

I'm curious how rabbits and quail compare with chicken in terms of feed cost and usage also.

Thank you Will! Self sufficiency is really necessary to live. It's fun to learn about.

[kirtland r.m.]

I wanted to ask how often you guys do a deep level soil replenishment in your gardens. I feel like last year we didn't do well in the garden. Two years ago and three years ago we had so many tomatoes that we were giving them away. We were bringing in about a (small?) basket per day. It was so exciting. But it seems that there was a sort of downward trend of the crop 2 years ago being lower than the one 3 years ago. And last year we got almost nothing.

Last year was rough for most gardeners that I know in Utah County.

Anyway, I was thinking some of it may be related to how often people do a deep level soil replenishment with spreading out a lot of manure or wood chips.

How often should someone do this? (And yes I'm aware most people don't do it in middle of the garden season but may do it in late fall after the season is over, etc. etc.

In Utah, we get this heavy clay soil...at least in South end of Utah County, so it can be a bit tricky working with it in that some plants don't do as well in it. I'd appreciate any suggestions on this.

Also I don't mind bouncing ideas back to help others.

(And first year doing potatoes...how do you know when they are ready to be dug up? Right now the plants are wilting and sort of dying(?), even while being fed plenty of water...and weeds overtaking them. Not sure if this is just because they are ready to be dug up, or because of the pests?)

I can help with some of the questions on this thread. Be sure to throw your lawn clippings into your garden. I would be careful about using grass that has just been applied with weed and feed. Throw leaves into garden, will help to run them over once with the lawn mower first. I live in Salt Lake County, Oh yea, we have that old clay soil too. Don't put down too much manure, contains salt. Too many wood chips will take about a year to break down, and will ruin your gardening prospects for that year unless you heavily fertilize. We have been working on our soil for twenty five years, it's a process. We have success in this soil with tomatoes, beans, so so with peas and potatoes. Not with melons, and corn. On those you will probably need some sand in your soil, maybe more fertilizer.
As far as chickens, layers will produce eggs almost every other day, and will not lay in the winter, unless I have heard, you light up coup. They will stop laying if stressed out by dogs. That has been our experience with chickens.

[Michelle]

I wanted to ask how often you guys do a deep level soil replenishment in your gardens. I feel like last year we didn't do well in the garden. Two years ago and three years ago we had so many tomatoes that we were giving them away. We were bringing in about a (small?) basket per day. It was so exciting. But it seems that there was a sort of downward trend of the crop 2 years ago being lower than the one 3 years ago. And last year we got almost nothing.

Last year was rough for most gardeners that I know in Utah County.

Anyway, I was thinking some of it may be related to how often people do a deep level soil replenishment with spreading out a lot of manure or wood chips.

How often should someone do this? (And yes I'm aware most people don't do it in middle of the garden season but may do it in late fall after the season is over, etc. etc.

In Utah, we get this heavy clay soil...at least in South end of Utah County, so it can be a bit tricky working with it in that some plants don't do as well in it. I'd appreciate any suggestions on this.

Also I don't mind bouncing ideas back to help others.

(And first year doing potatoes...how do you know when they are ready to be dug up? Right now the plants are wilting and sort of dying(?), even while being fed plenty of water...and weeds overtaking them. Not sure if this is just because they are ready to be dug up, or because of the pests?)

We tried planting our potatoes on top of the soil this year, with about 1-2 feet of straw on top. They are doing awesome! You don't have to dig them out of the dirt at the end, just grab them from under the straw. There are lots of Youtube videos on this if you want to watch them, but it is really just as simple as that.

[gardener4life]

I wanted to ask how often you guys do a deep level soil replenishment in your gardens. I feel like last year we didn't do well in the garden. Two years ago and three years ago we had so many tomatoes that we were giving them away. We were bringing in about a (small?) basket per day. It was so exciting. But it seems that there was a sort of downward trend of the crop 2 years ago being lower than the one 3 years ago. And last year we got almost nothing.

Last year was rough for most gardeners that I know in Utah County.

Anyway, I was thinking some of it may be related to how often people do a deep level soil replenishment with spreading out a lot of manure or wood chips.

How often should someone do this? (And yes I'm aware most people don't do it in middle of the garden season but may do it in late fall after the season is over, etc. etc.

In Utah, we get this heavy clay soil...at least in South end of Utah County, so it can be a bit tricky working with it in that some plants don't do as well in it. I'd appreciate any suggestions on this.

Also I don't mind bouncing ideas back to help others.

(And first year doing potatoes...how do you know when they are ready to be dug up? Right now the plants are wilting and sort of dying(?), even while being fed plenty of water...and weeds overtaking them. Not sure if this is just because they are ready to be dug up, or because of the pests?)

We tried planting our potatoes on top of the soil this year, with about 1-2 feet of straw on top. They are doing awesome! You don't have to dig them out of the dirt at the end, just grab them from under the straw. There are lots of Youtube videos on this if you want to watch them, but it is really just as simple as that.

This does sound exciting to try! Thanks for the suggestion!

I wonder if you have more trouble with pests if you do it this way though? Curious what you think on this aspect of it.

Also I wish there were more gardeners on this forum! Haha

[Michelle]

I wanted to ask how often you guys do a deep level soil replenishment in your gardens. I feel like last year we didn't do well in the garden. Two years ago and three years ago we had so many tomatoes that we were giving them away. We were bringing in about a (small?) basket per day. It was so exciting. But it seems that there was a sort of downward trend of the crop 2 years ago being lower than the one 3 years ago. And last year we got almost nothing.

Last year was rough for most gardeners that I know in Utah County.

Anyway, I was thinking some of it may be related to how often people do a deep level soil replenishment with spreading out a lot of manure or wood chips.

How often should someone do this? (And yes I'm aware most people don't do it in middle of the garden season but may do it in late fall after the season is over, etc. etc.

In Utah, we get this heavy clay soil...at least in South end of Utah County, so it can be a bit tricky working with it in that some plants don't do as well in it. I'd appreciate any suggestions on this.

Also I don't mind bouncing ideas back to help others.

(And first year doing potatoes...how do you know when they are ready to be dug up? Right now the plants are wilting and sort of dying(?), even while being fed plenty of water...and weeds overtaking them. Not sure if this is just because they are ready to be dug up, or because of the pests?)

We tried planting our potatoes on top of the soil this year, with about 1-2 feet of straw on top. They are doing awesome! You don't have to dig them out of the dirt at the end, just grab them from under the straw. There are lots of Youtube videos on this if you want to watch them, but it is really just as simple as that.

This does sound exciting to try! Thanks for the suggestion!

I wonder if you have more trouble with pests if you do it this way though? Curious what you think on this aspect of it.

Also I wish there were more gardeners on this forum! Haha

Not pests, but the bindweed in the yard kept creeping over the corner of the box into the potatoes. I would just grab it and pull it out weekly.

I didn't have anything but snails causing problems in the rest of my garden this year and I just feed them to the chickens or toss them in the street to get run over.

[JK4Woods]

Anybody know it corrugated galvanized roofing sheets turned sideways is ok for raised bed gardens? I’d cut them in half lengthwise so the raised bed was about 16” tall.

Just not sure if the galvanized metal is benign or harmful ?

[Michelle]

Anybody know it corrugated galvanized roofing sheets turned sideways is ok for raised bed gardens? I’d cut them in half lengthwise so the raised bed was about 16” tall.

Just not sure if the galvanized metal is benign or harmful ?

I've wondered the same. Hopefully someone can answer.

[gardener4life]

metal would raise the soil temperature around things its surrounding. So that could affect the growth of the plants. They'll grow faster in lower soil heat. (But if there's some space between the metal and the flower bed inside it then maybe that could cushion it some?)

I'm not sure if there are other aspects to look at though?

[gardener4life]

So...back to this forum thread.

I'm wondering if its absolutely necessary to rototill or plow the garden? What do you think on this?

I've been reading this type of idea where people will only till or plow like certain columns between un-plowed columns to keep the bacteria, insects, bugs, whatever alive to keep healthy soil. And they claim that you get better garden growth this way. They call this 'no till' farming, or the no till method.

I've been gardening for a few years, but not really big and without much feedback with just trial and error. (Trial and error can be frustrating because you have to invest huge amounts of time before you actually find out what you are doing isn't helpful or could be done better.) Last year and the year before I didn't till, partly because I don't have a roto-tiller etc. And I was curious about it. But it does seem that some of the people in my ward have better results than I do. But one of those people is dispensing miracle gro constantly and has automatic mechanical feeders. And I suspect that the other two that are doing better than I am are also doing something similar because 2 of these guys were in the bishopric together and close. Another guy I know swears by using black plastic, but others are saying don't do that because it kills the microbial life in the soil, or something like that etc.

Another problem is that I didn't have a truck, so I couldn't put out manure or woodchips in the garden last fall or the year before. And I suspect this has hurt the soil quality because I haven't had a good nutrient injection. (But I'm not a real farmer so it's hard to prove.) And it didn't help that most people I know had bad garden years for last year due to the heat, etc. and other factors.

Anyway, where I'm going with this is what makes the results of gardening confusing is that just because something manages to work doesn't mean that I'm doing the best result. This makes it hard to compare with other gardeners too. We're all doing this a bit different than each other.

I did good in potato crop this year sort of...I had a great start until the wasps and other bugs started eating the leaves off the potato plants. This resulted in the good strong early start seeming to result in less potatoes produced per plant because the plant couldn't photosynthesize well. The potatoes I think would have produced more if they hadn't had so many leaves stripped off them by insects. (Anyone have thoughts on this also?) I really did like doing potatoes this year though. They taste like twice as good as the store bought stuff; I wish I could tell why.) One problem I had with the potatoes also was that they died off and were done growing right before the all the huge gouts of smoke that we had for days. And so because of the smoke I couldn't get out there and harvest them because the smoke lasted like 2 weeks. Then when I finally got out there, the dead potato plants had withered away such that it was hard to tell right where I'd planted everything.)

Anyways, potatoes were kind of fun to do because they weren't very hard. (But controlling insects on them I could use pointers on, specifically I hope to not use tons of insecticides, and want to do something cheap.) I wish to try to get more information on how to get more production per plant though... is it because Utah has a lot of clay soil, or was that only because of insects?

I probably should have asked this earlier, but which garden plants actually build the soil instead of strip nutrients from the soil? There are plants like this right?

It does seem that using sunflowers as insect decoys helped some, but didn't eliminate the insect problem entirely. Are there other flowers or plants that can be used as insect decoys besides sunflowers?

Thanks for any thoughts...

And have any of you tried doing your own vegetable and root cellars? It seems that learning how to store produce is as important as learning to grow it. I'd like to learn what others might have tried on this.

Also which garden seeds are the least modified out of the different types of plants out there? I was thinking this question would be useful in trying to find out which seeds might still be able to work on trying to build my own seed from, but I already know that some garden plants are "TOO much" modified to do this anymore, ...?

[Michelle]

So...back to this forum thread.

I'm wondering if its absolutely necessary to rototill or plow the garden? What do you think on this?

I've been reading this type of idea where people will only till or plow like certain columns between un-plowed columns to keep the bacteria, insects, bugs, whatever alive to keep healthy soil. And they claim that you get better garden growth this way. They call this 'no till' farming, or the no till method.

I've been gardening for a few years, but not really big and without much feedback with just trial and error. (Trial and error can be frustrating because you have to invest huge amounts of time before you actually find out what you are doing isn't helpful or could be done better.) Last year and the year before I didn't till, partly because I don't have a roto-tiller etc. And I was curious about it. But it does seem that some of the people in my ward have better results than I do. But one of those people is dispensing miracle gro constantly and has automatic mechanical feeders. And I suspect that the other two that are doing better than I am are also doing something similar because 2 of these guys were in the bishopric together and close. Another guy I know swears by using black plastic, but others are saying don't do that because it kills the microbial life in the soil, or something like that etc.

Another problem is that I didn't have a truck, so I couldn't put out manure or woodchips in the garden last fall or the year before. And I suspect this has hurt the soil quality because I haven't had a good nutrient injection. (But I'm not a real farmer so it's hard to prove.) And it didn't help that most people I know had bad garden years for last year due to the heat, etc. and other factors.

Anyway, where I'm going with this is what makes the results of gardening confusing is that just because something manages to work doesn't mean that I'm doing the best result. This makes it hard to compare with other gardeners too. We're all doing this a bit different than each other.

I did good in potato crop this year sort of...I had a great start until the wasps and other bugs started eating the leaves off the potato plants. This resulted in the good strong early start seeming to result in less potatoes produced per plant because the plant couldn't photosynthesize well. The potatoes I think would have produced more if they hadn't had so many leaves stripped off them by insects. (Anyone have thoughts on this also?) I really did like doing potatoes this year though. They taste like twice as good as the store bought stuff; I wish I could tell why.) One problem I had with the potatoes also was that they died off and were done growing right before the all the huge gouts of smoke that we had for days. And so because of the smoke I couldn't get out there and harvest them because the smoke lasted like 2 weeks. Then when I finally got out there, the dead potato plants had withered away such that it was hard to tell right where I'd planted everything.)

Anyways, potatoes were kind of fun to do because they weren't very hard. (But controlling insects on them I could use pointers on, specifically I hope to not use tons of insecticides, and want to do something cheap.) I wish to try to get more information on how to get more production per plant though... is it because Utah has a lot of clay soil, or was that only because of insects?

I probably should have asked this earlier, but which garden plants actually build the soil instead of strip nutrients from the soil? There are plants like this right?

It does seem that using sunflowers as insect decoys helped some, but didn't eliminate the insect problem entirely. Are there other flowers or plants that can be used as insect decoys besides sunflowers?

Thanks for any thoughts...

And have any of you tried doing your own vegetable and root cellars? It seems that learning how to store produce is as important as learning to grow it. I'd like to learn what others might have tried on this.

So, an update.

We got a lot of good potatoes, but we did end up finding a -ton- of snails in our yukon gold patch. I think it was just too wet because it was the closest to my other plants and got double watered. We did let the chickens go over the bed afterwards to eat up all the nasty bugs and weeds and some kind of gross eggs that were laid there.

We are eating fresh potatoes like kings over here! I'm pretty sure we'll be out before a month, so I did order 100+ lbs. more for winter.

I don't have enough room to grow more than 150 hundred pounds if I did it perfectly, and I am dividing up the garden differently next year.

I grew some onions and carrots in a couple of those large black buckets form Costco ($8 each) and they are my best crop this year. I think I am going to fill 4 more with dirt/compost and holes in the bottom and use them again next year. My plants in pots are not doing well -at all-, I will save small to average pots for small herbs only in the future. I do have a raspberry bush and blueberry bush that are loving their very large pots (leftover tree pots.)

We haven't made it through a winter yet, but a teaspoon of apple cider vinegar to about a quart of water seems to be making the blueberry plant very happy. The tiny purpler flowers are beautiful, but no fruit yet either, so we will see.

I put in a whole bunch of strawberry plants in my front garden beds yesterday so they can act as a ground-cover an hopefully supply some fruit as well.

We had to move the chickens a few weeks back. They seem to be doing ok. Egg production dropped, but never below 3 a day for the 6 hens and we are back up to 4-5. I have never used the heaters or lights and our hens only stop laying for a month or less each winter. (I figure they deserve a break.)

We have more fruit trees this year, but the late frost meant very few cherries and no apples on the small tree. Plenty on the big tree though. We don't spray and cut out the rotten spots on the apples, but now that the chickens are under the tree, we are hoping they will eat at least some of the coddle moths next year before they crawl up the tree into the apples.

The other day I only ate food from my yard until dinner. It was awesome and makes it all worth while.

I think it was Gordon B. Hinckley who said something like "The fastest way to a green thumb is a few seasons with a brown thumb."

[Michelle]

So...back to this forum thread.


And have any of you tried doing your own vegetable and root cellars? It seems that learning how to store produce is as important as learning to grow it. I'd like to learn what others might have tried on this.

Also which garden seeds are the least modified out of the different types of plants out there? I was thinking this question would be useful in trying to find out which seeds might still be able to work on trying to build my own seed from, but I already know that some garden plants are "TOO much" modified to do this anymore, ...?

These are my favorite resources:

Root Cellaring: must have book on how to build, storage and expectations.

https://www.amazon.com/Root-Cellaring-N ... dpSrc=srch

How to save your heirloom seeds:

https://www.amazon.com/Seed-Growing-Tec ... 1882424581

Where to get heirloom seeds:

https://www.rareseeds.com/

Also Botany in a Day is good for learning about plants, identification and uses.

https://www.amazon.com/Botany-Day-Patte ... dpSrc=srch