What were God's sins?

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FTC
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What were God's sins?

Post by FTC »

According to (some) theology, God was a regular, ordinary everyday man. But the church is trying to somewhat disavow that now, so there's that. In any case, what was it like when God was just a man? What were his sins? Did he drink alchohol? coffee? caffiienated drinks? Did he smoke? Any DUIs? Was he a convert? Did he ever swear? Maybe he just stole a pack of gum from the store. Did he hit his brother/sister? Did he sneak ouf of the house to go egg cars? Did he make-out with tons of girls? Did he lust for any of them? Did he ever commit adultery? Any masturbation? :-O Granted, he never murdered anybody. Did he pay tithing on his gross or net? Did he run a red light? Did he ever get any tickets at all? Did he ever argue with his wife/wives? Call his parents names? Knock down other kids' books in school. Throw spit wads at the teacher? Did he flip anybody off? Did he speed? Did he ever do drugs? Was he addicted to anything? Any of pride, covetousness, lust, anger, gluttony, envy, and sloth? Did he skip out of scouts? School? Church? Did he shop on Sunday? Did he fake a sick day with work? Let his angry fly? Overeat? Forge a signature? Tell a white lie? Did he ever get divorced from any of his wives? Prophets have. Did he ever think bad thoughts, but just never acted on them? Did he ever see porn? Did he taste test grapes at the store, but not pay for them? Did he ever get lazy and just waste a day away? Did he yell at his kids? Did he spank them? Hit them? Did he have less than 100% home teaching? Did he miss going to the temple once a month? Did he listen to bad songs? Did he sing along to them? Did he karaoke them? haha! :)) Did he litter? Did he kick a dog? Did he run over a cat? Did he poach? Did he trespass? Any breaking and entering? Grand theft auto? Vandalism? Did he deal drugs? Did he turn a blind eye to crime? Did ever watch a rated-R movie? Fluff any numbers? Exaggerate? Embelish? Any finders keepers, losers weepers? Make a fake online profile? Commit fraud? Pirate movies or music? Cruelty to animals? Did he purposely piss off his inlaws? Did he have a falling out with family members? Did he ever have gay thoughts? Did he take the Sacrament with his left hand? Did he wear a non-white shirt to church? Did he think his bishop was an idiot? Did he ever think any of his church leadership was stupid? Did he ever forget an important holiday of someone he cared about? Did he ever pay any late fees? Did he forget to return a book to the library? Did he mow the lawn on the sabbath? Was he deceptive? Tell any half-truths? Park in the handicaped parking? Cut anybody off in traffic? Steal free cable? Watch a sex scene? Did he listen to anything other than church music? Miss reading the scriptures? Troll anybody on the internet? Mock anybody? Make a false end of world prediction? Fail any classes because he just didn't study? Ever go to a nudey bar? Ever gamble? What about just gambling for Skittles? Did he ever loose his cool playing sports? Skip ahead in line? Skip church because it was stake conference? Put the toilet paper on hanging under instead of over? Stay up too late and sleep in too long and miss something important?
What were God's sins?
Things I "ponderize" after I sin........

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Melissa
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Re: What were God's sins?

Post by Melissa »

Lol, I think it may be a bad thing to answer this thread in any specific detail. Seems blasphemous or something.

Regardless of what we belive as God having been a man, I sure don't want to speculate anything about any sins...he's God. Much respect!

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jbalm
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Re: What were God's sins?

Post by jbalm »

Manufacturing Schedule I narcotics.

In fact, He's still doing it.

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Durzan
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Re: What were God's sins?

Post by Durzan »

The simple answer is: We don't know... it doesn't really pertain to our exaltation, and as such hasn't been revealed.

If our Heavenly Father did sin, then only He, his Father, and whoever fulfilled the role of Savior during HF time in Mortal Probation, would know. If this is the case, it doesn't matter, as He would've been covered under the effects of an Atonement or similar mechanism, and as a result has long since left any sins behind and become exalted. To Him, such sins would be a very faint and distant memory, if He remembers them at all at this point; his journey to perfect exaltation and beyond has brought him beyond such matters at least, when they pertain to His past.

If he didn't sin, then that means that he would've been the one fulfilling the Atonement, even as Christ fulfilled the Atonement in this Eternal Round.

Either way, at this point it doesn't matter, as it doesn't change the fact that Father is just and Perfect now in His Exalted state.

freedomforall
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Re: What were God's sins?

Post by freedomforall »

Who's to say God sinned at all. Christ didn't. And Christ said he was sent to earth to do his will, his commands...and to do as he did.

John 8:28
28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

John 5:19
19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
...............................................................................................................................................
So trying to condemn God for supposed sins is a moot point. And rather insensitive.

Spaced_Out
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Re: What were God's sins?

Post by Spaced_Out »

First if we repent our sins are remembered no more, they are wiped out. A perfect being is a perfect being that has no sin, it is a stupid question......

Second it is pretty much official doctrine that Heavenly Father was a saviour like Jesus. Jesus stated he only did what he saw the father do....

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Durzan
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Re: What were God's sins?

Post by Durzan »

Spaced_Out wrote:First if we repent our sins are remembered no more, they are wiped out. A perfect being is a perfect being that has no sin, it is a stupid question......

Second it is pretty much official doctrine that Heavenly Father was a saviour like Jesus. Jesus stated he only did what he saw the father do....
Eh, I wouldn't say its pretty much official doctrine... its decent speculation at best. The verses where Christ says He does nothing except that which the Father has shown him could simply mean that he does only what Heavenly Father instructed Him/Taught Him to do.

zionminded
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Re: What were God's sins?

Post by zionminded »

We tend to think of sin a violation a commandment. Sin can mean a lot more, including simply not learning or growing.

brianj
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Re: What were God's sins?

Post by brianj »

In the New Testament there's a statement by Jesus that He does nothing of himself, but what He saw the Father do. I've heard much speculation that this statement indicates that our Father is the Savior for His Father's children. If so, then He had no sin.

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Jeremy
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Re: What were God's sins?

Post by Jeremy »

Having no sin is not the same as never sinning.

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FTC
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Re: What were God's sins?

Post by FTC »

Spaced_Out wrote:Second it is pretty much official doctrine that Heavenly Father was a saviour like Jesus.
I don't buy into that. That would lead to Jesus being the only one that gets to become a God, and, so sad, too bad for all the rest of us. Too bad for all the other poor sods that did all they could do, but just get to be a bunch of ministering angels like all the rest.

Since most are saying that we really don't know just what God was before he became a god, it could just as likely be that our God was the very lowest possible candidate to qualify to become a god. Anytime there is more than one, someone is going to be last.

freedomforall
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Re: What were God's sins?

Post by freedomforall »

FTC wrote:
Spaced_Out wrote:Second it is pretty much official doctrine that Heavenly Father was a saviour like Jesus.
I don't buy into that. That would lead to Jesus being the only one that gets to become a God, and, so sad, too bad for all the rest of us. Too bad for all the other poor sods that did all they could do, but just get to be a bunch of ministering angels like all the rest.

Since most are saying that we really don't know just what God was before he became a god, it could just as likely be that our God was the very lowest possible candidate to qualify to become a god. Anytime there is more than one, someone is going to be last.
Abraham 3:21
21 I dwell in the midst of them all; I now, therefore, have come down unto thee to declare unto thee the works which my hands have made, wherein my wisdom excelleth them all, for I rule in the heavens above, and in the earth beneath, in all wisdom and prudence, over all the intelligences thine eyes have seen from the beginning; I came down in the beginning in the midst of all the intelligences thou hast seen.

Doctrine and Covenants 93:29
29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.

Doctrine and Covenants 93:30
30 All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it, to act for itself, as all intelligence also; otherwise there is no existence.

Abr. 3:19
19 And the Lord said unto me: These two facts do exist, that there are two spirits, one being more intelligent than the other; there shall be another more intelligent than they; I am the Lord thy God, I am more intelligent than they all.

If God sinned at one time, he cannot forget them. He knows ALL things, therefore, if he did not remember his own sins he would cease to be God.
Likewise, we will remember our sins, but guilt and pain associated with remitted sins will cease to be there.
God will remember our sins...because he knows all things. However, He will not hold sin(s) against those who repent.

brianj
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Re: What were God's sins?

Post by brianj »

FTC wrote:
Spaced_Out wrote:Second it is pretty much official doctrine that Heavenly Father was a saviour like Jesus.
I don't buy into that. That would lead to Jesus being the only one that gets to become a God, and, so sad, too bad for all the rest of us. Too bad for all the other poor sods that did all they could do, but just get to be a bunch of ministering angels like all the rest.
Why do you believe this? According to church doctrine our Savior was perfect and therefore has qualified for eternal progression, and all of us who become perfect through the Atonement can also qualify for eternal progression. Therefore, if Heavenly Father was (and therefore still is) a Savior for His Father, I don't see any reason to believe that many of His brothers and sisters have also become exalted.

Put another way, if you and I make it to the highest degree of the Celestial Kingdom, we will be there with our Elder Brother. How would the fact that He becomes a Father to spirit children, sending them to mortality with one of His children becoming a Savior to them prevent you or me from doing the same thing?

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Rumpelstiltskin
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Re: What were God's sins?

Post by Rumpelstiltskin »

Who cares?

Ezra
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Re: What were God's sins?

Post by Ezra »

jbalm wrote:Manufacturing Schedule I narcotics.

In fact, He's still doing it.
Im trying to be like God.

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Robin Hood
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Re: What were God's sins?

Post by Robin Hood »

"As man is God once was, as God is man may become".

This is false doctrine, unless it is applied specifically to Jesus.

Spaced_Out
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Re: What were God's sins?

Post by Spaced_Out »

freedomforall wrote:If God sinned at one time, he cannot forget them. He knows ALL things, therefore, if he did not remember his own sins he would cease to be God.
Likewise, we will remember our sins, but guilt and pain associated with remitted sins will cease to be there.
God will remember our sins...because he knows all things. However, He will not hold sin(s) against those who repent.
Doctrine and Covenants 58:42
42 Behold, he who has repented of his sins, the same is forgiven, and I, the Lord, remember them no more.

Enos 1:6
6 And I, Enos, knew that God could not lie; wherefore, my guilt was swept away.

Sin once overcome the effects of it no longer have impact on us and it is as if we did not commit the sin. Yes we do forget and if we see the person there is no remembering of the sin all you would see is a perfected and exalted being with no sin. One can't look upon any perfected and exalted being and see their sin because it is completely erased. There is no point remembering somethings that does not exist anymore.

If you work in PH leadership where people have to confess and you have to work through he sin with them years going forward that knowledge is wiped away and if you see the person you do not remember the sin it will not come to mind anymore there is no point of such a thing hence D&C 58:42 or do you have some perverted interpretation of the scripture.

freedomforall
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Re: What were God's sins?

Post by freedomforall »

Spaced_Out wrote:
freedomforall wrote:If God sinned at one time, he cannot forget them. He knows ALL things, therefore, if he did not remember his own sins he would cease to be God.
Likewise, we will remember our sins, but guilt and pain associated with remitted sins will cease to be there.
God will remember our sins...because he knows all things. However, He will not hold sin(s) against those who repent.
Doctrine and Covenants 58:42
42 Behold, he who has repented of his sins, the same is forgiven, and I, the Lord, remember them no more.

Enos 1:6
6 And I, Enos, knew that God could not lie; wherefore, my guilt was swept away.

Sin once overcome the effects of it no longer have impact on us and it is as if we did not commit the sin. Yes we do forget and if we see the person there is no remembering of the sin all you would see is a perfected and exalted being with no sin. One can't look upon any perfected and exalted being and see their sin because it is completely erased. There is no point remembering somethings that does not exist anymore.

If you work in PH leadership where people have to confess and you have to work through he sin with them years going forward that knowledge is wiped away and if you see the person you do not remember the sin it will not come to mind anymore there is no point of such a thing hence D&C 58:42 or do you have some perverted interpretation of the scripture.
1) God knows all things.
2) Humans can repent and forsake sin.
3) Humans can still recall remitted sins, but associated pain, anguish and guilt is not present.
4) Likewise, if God had sinned, He too can remember them...or He would cease to be God.
5) God also remembers our sins, but does not hold harsh or condemning consequences against us, once the sin has been remitted. Our memories are intact and we will be able to remember everything done on earth.

Doctrine and Covenants 88:41
41 He comprehendeth all things, and all things are before him, and all things are round about him; and he is above all things, and in all things, and is through all things, and is round about all things; and all things are by him, and of him, even God, forever and ever.

This verse demonstrates that it is guilt that is swept away, not the memory of committing sin.

Enos 1:6
6 And I, Enos, knew that God could not lie; wherefore, my guilt was swept away.

D&C 19:16
16 For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent.

Alma 42:25
25 What, do ye suppose that mercy can rob justice? I say unto you, Nay; not one whit. If so, God would cease to be God.

Is this perverted enough for you upon you declaring:
Spaced_Out wrote:or do you have some perverted interpretation of the scripture

freedomforall
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Re: What were God's sins?

Post by freedomforall »

Robin Hood wrote:"As man is God once was, as God is man may become".

This is false doctrine, unless it is applied specifically to Jesus.
President Snow later recalled, “the Spirit of the Lord rested mightily upon me—the eyes of my understanding were opened, and I saw as clear as the sun at noonday, with wonder and astonishment, the pathway of God and man. I formed the following couplet which expresses the revelation, as it was shown me. …

“As man now is, God once was:
“As God now is, man may be.”
1

Feeling that he had received “a sacred communication” that he should guard carefully, Lorenzo Snow did not teach the doctrine publicly until he knew that the Prophet Joseph Smith had taught it.2 Once he knew the doctrine was public knowledge, he testified of it frequently.

1 In Eliza R. Snow Smith, Biography and Family Record of Lorenzo Snow (1884), 46; see also “The Grand Destiny of Man,” Deseret Evening News, July 20, 1901, 22.

“He that overcometh shall inherit all things.” [Revelation 21:7.]

“To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in His throne.” [Revelation 3:21.]

I believe that. And when he says that Jesus “shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body” [Philippians 3:21] I believe that also. Do the Latter-day Saints believe these things that I am talking about? You must, of course, believe them. Again:

“For he that receiveth my servants receiveth me;

“And he that receiveth me receiveth my Father;

“And he that receiveth my Father, receiveth my Father’s kingdom; therefore all that my Father hath shall be given unto him.” [D&C 84:36–38.]

Could anyone think of anything more that could be given? … Paul comprehended these things very well, for he said he “pressed forward to the mark of the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.” [See Philippians 3:14.]

SEE: The Grand Destiny of the Faithful

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FTC
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Re: What were God's sins?

Post by FTC »

Additional corollary thoughts I had about this. It is possible that our God never was a "mormon" while he was living on his own earth-like world. It is possible that all his ordinances were done proxy after he died. Upon accepting those in the afterlife, he was then able to obtain his exaltation.
That is, if proxy work for the dead actually is a viable means to provide post-death exaltation for someone.

Things I think about when I'm not sinning.......

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LDS Physician
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Re: What were God's sins?

Post by LDS Physician »

I love to ponder on these things a lot too. First, what are the chances that our HF just also happens to have been the only one of his siblings to have served as the Savior of His Father's eternal family? Pretty darned low. And then there are the children of our HF's siblings...do their families' Saviors NOT have the opportunity to observe and then do what their Fathers did...or will their scriptures read "I do nothing save that which I saw my uncle do?"

And then ask yourself this...if one HF (ours for instance) served as a Savior and underwent an atonement so that he could have his bowels filled with mercy and understand how to succor his children in every possible circumstance, then wouldn't this HF be so much more able to serve his children than the HF who didn't go through an atonement, didn't serve as a Savior? Which HF is better prepared to do his job: the one who served as a Savior and underwent an atonement or the one who lived, sinned, repented, or perhaps had his ordinances performed vicariously and accepted the gospel after death?

I mean, the answer is logically obvious...all HFs need to experience an atonement. I believe they all have...and that being a Firstborn is in our future (if we want it and follow the path to it) and requisite before becoming a HF. After all, we're all trying to join the Church of the Firstborn, aren't we? That's a congregation of Firstborn. And this brings deeper meaning to "take upon you the name of Christ" doesn't it? Sort of explains how Jesus is considered our "elder" brother. How is he our "elder" brother? Well, he's an eternity ahead of us. He's been there, done that, and now he's a Christ.

Fascinating stuff...

Sasquatch
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Re: What were God's sins?

Post by Sasquatch »

Who knows? Considering how many billions of children and babies have died in this world, it's very likely HF died as a child and never committed sins in mortality. Or, he may have lived during the Millennium period of his world. Maybe he was translated in mortality.

Juliet
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Re: What were God's sins?

Post by Juliet »

I don't think Heavenly Father would allow us to be tempted in any way or endure any hardship that he didn't know exactly how it operated and how to overcome it. For all I know, He powers the evil because it is necessary for us to learn certain principles. He knows our every thought, and His ways are higher than our ways. So if we were to say, hey, He used to be like us, He knows what a drug addict goes through, the reason is because He does! He not only knows evil, He probably makes it specifically for us to teach us certain lessons, such as LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR. Like, you know, the harlots, the drug addicts, the food addicts, the homosexuals, you know, maybe we should actually follow that commandment and this world would go somewhere other than down.

God isn't sending people to jail or hurting any one or punishing anyone. It is our shame that wants to make people into good and bad categories. It is just totally primitive. It is our shame that made people think that Jesus had to die on the cross. It was not for our "sins" (which are really transgressions), it was for our shame! (Shame is the real sin, breaking other commandments is transgressing, because no one would break the commandments who had the Light and Truth of God in them). HE died for our shame to be nailed to the cross. The Shame that sinning (or in better words transgressing) creates is what makes us look at a perfect person and blame Him instead of looking at our own sins and blaming ourselves. It would be easy to take responsibility for our sins if we weren't so busy hiding and blaming others because we were ashamed to own up to our sins. (Which are just transgressions. Again, no one would be a drug addict if they had the power of truth to overcome the addiction, so they are innocent while caught up in it, so it is just a transgression).

The only real sin is to not be grateful for the life God gives us no matter how well we keep the commandments, and to be grateful that He is going to give us life even more abundantly as we grow in our love for ourselves and each other. It is His love that powers us to keep the commandments. So He wants to give us that love and life, and give it to us more abundantly. When that life and love is received, then we will be able to keep the commandments. Because Jesus said "IF" ye love me, keep my commandments. He was talking to those who had His love, not to those who were in the dark.

So what I am trying to say, is if you supplement God into any one of our lives, He would dissolve all our problems instantly because He doesn't need them to grow. We need them to grow. He understands the physics of it, for lack of a better word.He endured the specific life experiences He needed to in order to overcame all sin Himself because He is able to work with it like a tool, whereas for us we still get stuck underneath it, for lack of knowing or understanding the principles of life and love. And when we learn the same principles as He has, we will be able to create like He does.
Last edited by Juliet on March 31st, 2017, 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

freedomforall
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Re: What were God's sins?

Post by freedomforall »

Juliet wrote: March 31st, 2017, 1:08 pm I don't think Heavenly Father would allow us to be tempted in any way or endure any hardship that he didn't know exactly how it operated and how to overcome it. For all I know, He powers the evil because it is necessary for us to learn certain principles. He knows our every thought, and His ways are higher than our ways. So if we were to say, hey, He used to be like us, He knows what a drug addict goes through, the reason is because He does! He not only knows evil, He probably makes it specifically for us to teach us certain lessons, such as LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR. Like, you know, the harlots, the drug addicts, the food addicts, the homosexuals, you know, maybe we should actually follow that commandment and this world would go somewhere other than down.

God isn't sending people to jail or hurting any one or punishing anyone. It is our shame that wants to make people into good and bad categories. It is just totally primitive. It is our shame that made people think that Jesus had to die on the cross. It was not for our "sins" (which are really transgressions), it was for our shame! (Shame is the real sin, breaking other commandments is transgressing, because no one would break the commandments who had the Light and Truth of God in them). HE died for our shame to be nailed to the cross. The Shame that sinning (or in better words transgressing) creates is what makes us look at a perfect person and blame Him instead of looking at our own sins and blaming ourselves. It would be easy to take responsibility for our sins if we weren't so busy hiding and blaming others because we were ashamed to own up to our sins. (Which are just transgressions. Again, no one would be a drug addict if they had the power of truth to overcome the addiction, so they are innocent while caught up in it, so it is just a transgression).

The only real sin is to not be grateful for the life God gives us no matter how well we keep the commandments, and to be grateful that He is going to give us life even more abundantly as we grow in our love for ourselves and each other. It is His love that powers us to keep the commandments. So He wants to give us that love and life, and give it to us more abundantly. When that life and love is received, then we will be able to keep the commandments. Because Jesus said "IF" ye love me, keep my commandments. He was talking to those who had His love, not to those who were in the dark.
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Juliet
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Re: What were God's sins?

Post by Juliet »

freedomforall wrote: March 31st, 2017, 1:13 pm
Juliet wrote: March 31st, 2017, 1:08 pm I don't think Heavenly Father would allow us to be tempted in any way or endure any hardship that he didn't know exactly how it operated and how to overcome it. For all I know, He powers the evil because it is necessary for us to learn certain principles. He knows our every thought, and His ways are higher than our ways. So if we were to say, hey, He used to be like us, He knows what a drug addict goes through, the reason is because He does! He not only knows evil, He probably makes it specifically for us to teach us certain lessons, such as LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR. Like, you know, the harlots, the drug addicts, the food addicts, the homosexuals, you know, maybe we should actually follow that commandment and this world would go somewhere other than down.

God isn't sending people to jail or hurting any one or punishing anyone. It is our shame that wants to make people into good and bad categories. It is just totally primitive. It is our shame that made people think that Jesus had to die on the cross. It was not for our "sins" (which are really transgressions), it was for our shame! (Shame is the real sin, breaking other commandments is transgressing, because no one would break the commandments who had the Light and Truth of God in them). HE died for our shame to be nailed to the cross. The Shame that sinning (or in better words transgressing) creates is what makes us look at a perfect person and blame Him instead of looking at our own sins and blaming ourselves. It would be easy to take responsibility for our sins if we weren't so busy hiding and blaming others because we were ashamed to own up to our sins. (Which are just transgressions. Again, no one would be a drug addict if they had the power of truth to overcome the addiction, so they are innocent while caught up in it, so it is just a transgression).

The only real sin is to not be grateful for the life God gives us no matter how well we keep the commandments, and to be grateful that He is going to give us life even more abundantly as we grow in our love for ourselves and each other. It is His love that powers us to keep the commandments. So He wants to give us that love and life, and give it to us more abundantly. When that life and love is received, then we will be able to keep the commandments. Because Jesus said "IF" ye love me, keep my commandments. He was talking to those who had His love, not to those who were in the dark.
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