Alice in Wonderland 101 - Pedophile Author, Satanic and Occult Inspired Movie

[Jeremy]

...I was being sarcastic. I really don't watch old Adolf Hitler videos for inspiration.

@-) And here I was watching the video and finding some light. LOL

[Jeremy]

This part of your post really caught my attention.

What is it about child sacrifice that is so appalling? What is the purpose behind such a sacrifice?

[Lexew1899]

What is it about child sacrifice that is so appalling? What is the purpose behind such a sacrifice?

It was appealing, because it was viewed at as liberating. The unholy trifecta of the Old Testament demonic gods were Ba'al (master) god, Ashtoreth, and Molech. There are different names these gods were known as, Ba'al, sometimes Beel-Zebub. There were different gods among the Egyptians, Cananites, and Philistines that all effected the Israelite's. But these ones are mentioned again and again in the Bible, and seem to have the most effect on the story of the people.

If you look at Ba'al, he is thought to have originated from the Egyptian god Baal, the God of Thunder (incidentally the Greeks later name this god Zues). He is known to the Egyptians as the one who throws thunder from the sky, controls the weather, harvest, and such things of the natural world. He is associated with filth and disfigurement.


Ashtoreth, also known as Astarte (from Phonetician Ishtar), is the goddess of sexuality and fertility, and war (known later by the Greeks as Athena). Her "Priestesses" practiced ritualistic sex as part of worship. She is typically depicted as a topless female, and seems to be quite popular as these topless statues have been found all over Israel. You could find a church to this goddess in groves, and by finding phallic shaped obelisks. Also by finding trees decorated with ornaments and tinsel...


Molech is often associated as a bull with human hands. For the most part Ba'al is sometimes also depicted as this figure, but it seems to me that these are two separate gods that were worshiped. The Israelite's were cautioned to not let their children pass through the fires of Molech. If they did, they were subject to the death penalty. The children "pass through the fires", by heating up a bronze statue, which holds in its hands an offering plate. This offering plate is heated to scorching temperatures, anything placed on it is incinerated almost instantly. To calm the worried parents, ritual drums are beaten to stifle the cries from being heard.


All of these "gods" allow for the sacrifice of children. Ba'al typically only accepts the firstborn males. Molech accepts babies, boy or girl. And Astoreth accepts even little children. This is accomplished by throwing your children off of high buildings or walls.

All so you can go and enjoy more sex, partying, and worldly depravity.

[shadow]

If a prophet of God quotes a movie, it lends itself to those who "follow the prophet" (think about that phrase in light of this movie quote) to go and watch the movie, does it not? Regardless of whether or not he was trying to make one point from the movie, by quoting the movie, it would seem he unintentionally endorses the movie, just like with other quotes (which is all well and good I guess) and it is the right of every person on earth to hear the voice of Christ speak to their heart as they listen to claimed prophets, apostles, seers, and revelators, and whether or not that person heeds His voice is up to the individual, and for me, he spoke to my heart upon hearing this man, who claims to speak for God, quote again from this movie.

PLEASE DISCUSS THIS ^^^ What does Heaven tell you about this ^^^ - share this as you are supposed to, as life long missionaries of the Lord Jesus Christ.

I recently read in the Book of Mormon, aside from the murders etc., a scene where Lamanite men raped Nephite women. According to you, we shouldn't read the Book of Mormon, let alone quote from it?? It's various scenes are far more graphic and evil than any evil one must strain and contort to find in Alice in Wonderland- a book you admit you haven't even read #-o
Apply your rhetoric equally and see where it gets you. I double-dog dare you. You'll find yourself either on the side of stupidity or ignorance.

[sushi_chef]

probably originally baal type religion copied and twisted the gospel of true messiah as sacrifice for the redemption of mankind prophesied and taught by true prophets through the rebellion....thats also why appalling perhaps.

:-B

[lemuel]

I think probably Alice in Wonderland has been twisted by satanists into something it is not. Look at the endowment. There are imitations of it everywhere, in every major city. Just look at gangs. What are characteristics of gangs:
New Names. Signs and tokens. Clothing. Oaths (to keep murderous combinations and crimes secret).

I find it interesting that CERN even uses Alice in their branding...

I didn't know Alice went to Greendale...

[Rachael]

Don't moderate the thread BOM, I didn't like when syf tried that on page one and posted you should be banned (which some of those posts were deleted by a moderator I guess), and some of those that are disagreeing with you now, didn't like it either.

What is your issue with me saying BOM should be banned?

Cuz it's a FREEDOM forum. That's all. Nothing personal.

[setyourselffree]

Don't moderate the thread BOM, I didn't like when syf tried that on page one and posted you should be banned (which some of those posts were deleted by a moderator I guess), and some of those that are disagreeing with you now, didn't like it either.

What is your issue with me saying BOM should be banned?

Cuz it's a FREEDOM forum. That's all. Nothing personal.

This is a direct quote from the forum rules. "What this forum is not. It is not an anti-Mormon/anti-LDS forum, not a Denver Snuffer forum, not a forum for any ‘remnant’ or LDS offshoot communities/movements/groups, not a RLDS or FLDS forum, and not a forum for being bitter and critical of LDS Church leaders". Please feel free to tell me how this thread is not being critical of LDS church leaders?

[Rachael]

Praise to the man, and we thank thee 'o God for the prophet...

[Jeremy]

All of these "gods" allow for the sacrifice of children. Ba'al typically only accepts the firstborn males. Molech accepts babies, boy or girl. And Astoreth accepts even little children. This is accomplished by throwing your children off of high buildings or walls.

All so you can go and enjoy more sex, partying, and worldly depravity.

Thanks for all the information. It seems that the problem is sacrificing children for personal gain and to please a God who requires such sacrifices. Is this correct?

[sushi_chef]

and btw the site sushi_ found and hasnt read well yet but borrowed that pic from is....
http://traditionalchurchofsatan.net/category/baal/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
:-B

[Lexew1899]

Sounds about right to me.

Of course there was only one human infinate sacrifice that was ordained by God.

Alma 34:10 For it is expedient that there should be a great and last sacrifice; yea, not a sacrifice of man, neither of beast, neither of any manner of fowl; for it shall not be a human sacrifice; but it must be an infinite and eternal sacrifice.

Then there is also the curious case of Jephthah's daughter, although that was a vow he made of himself. Nothing in our doctrine (conference, talks, etc.) resolves that issue, and I just checked my copy of the Inspired version of the Bible and it is still ambiguous. Poor Jephthah's daughter. Maybe she really did get sacrificed.

[shadow]

Having flown out of Utah now for 3 years (almost an obsession) awaiting the Lord's OK to move from this state...

Need I remind you that almost a year ago you said the Lord "has given us the go ahead to leave Utah".

If you want to leave, then leave.

[BrotherOfMahonri]

Hmm, if we should find light in everything. Here are some Hitler speeches with translations to watch. Enjoy...

Please note for clarifications purposes.

You said, "should find light IN everything" when I said clearly, "shine light ON everything". I thin there is a difference of understanding in those two words. :ymblushing: :p

The comment wasn't directed towards you, and I was being sarcastic. I really don't watch old Adolf Hitler videos for inspiration.

Yes I think I understood the sarcasm clearly, but pulled out the word difference for clarification only - and maybe that due to the craziness of assumptions heaped at me in this thread.

[BrotherOfMahonri]

...

Please don't do this again in the public, it made you quite upset last time. I'm not OK with you painting these false scenarios publicly again unless you really want me to respond, which last time you didn't like.

You are the most self righteous dude I have ever met.

That there avatar of yours is a copyrighted photo we own, please be a latter day saint and cease from using it... your intentions are quite clear. Mock me all you want, but reach through to my wife and kids (that includes using our photos) - tread carefully.

[BrotherOfMahonri]

All sardonicism aside, addressing the OP and his question about the Satanic nature of Alice in Wonderland. From everything I have read I have not been able to find any definite link between the author and Satanism.

He was born Charles Lutwidge Dodgson. He was raised in a rather religious family. He attended Christ Church, Oxford (church school). He was ordained as a Deacon in the Priesthood of the Church of England. Part of this calling was to remain celibate (never married). He was supposed to be ordained as a Priest, but had serious reservations about this. He apparently didn't want to be a clergyman by trade, although this was against the Christ Church protocol, yet the Dean allowed it in his case.

When giving a reason for not becoming a clergyman, he stated, he was not sure if God forgive him of his past, though doesn't state why that is.

He was a founding member of something called the "Society for Psychical Research", which seems to be a pseudo science society that mainly tries to investigate things like mind powers. He was also interested in Theosophy, which is a kind of new-age style non denominational collection of Gnostic knowledge. Given all of these things I suspected he would be a fan of Spiritualism, which was all the rage during this time, especially in Victorian England, but he was not.

I almost half suspected him as being an atheist after reading these things about him, but when asked by a friend of his about religion he says the following...

I believe that when you and I come to lie down for the last time, if only we can keep firm hold of the great truths Christ taught us—our own utter worthlessness and His infinite worth; and that He has brought us back to our one Father, and made us His brethren, and so brethren to one another—we shall have all we need to guide us through the shadows. Most assuredly I accept to the full the doctrines you refer to—that Christ died to save us, that we have no other way of salvation open to us but through His death, and that it is by faith in Him, and through no merit of ours, that we are reconciled to God; and most assuredly I can cordially say, "I owe all to Him who loved me, and died on the Cross of Calvary."

I also found articles talking about how he should be regarded as one of the greatest Christian authors of all time, in league with J.R.R. Tolkien and C.S. Lewis.

So I am not sure entirely where these allegations of Satanism derive from. They don't seem to be something he ever talked about, or mentioned, privately or publicly.

It seems to mainly be a creation of the internet. Unless you have some other evidence that I am not aware of. But I do thank you for the original post. It is very interesting, and I don't see any harm is asking questions, or second guessing anything.

And I know that there is Satanic influence over the media. Perhaps he was after all some sort of closet occultists, though it doesn't seem likely, to me at least.

Great research and thank you for being one of the most saintly in this reply on this entire thread. I appreciate the insights you have given. I don't agree with some of the conclusions although I recognize it is there and have read through it, and will be replying with what I have found, but this is what i call discussion, for which I am grateful.

With that said, the question I propose to help with my reply is - Can one read anything about anyone and be mislead? The simple gospel doctrine answer to that is YES!

Isn't that one major point of the gospel after all is said, read and done? Isn't the spirit the teacher we are to lean upon after all, no matter what we read from any human's perspective on any matter?

I get that this is controversial, as much as and maybe more than my post about Joseph Smith's innocence vs the church's essays of his polygamy. Such a witness can only come from God to each of us personally (Take the Holy Spirit as your guide).

We either believe the written words of man about the author of this story and move on (which there are biases everywhere on almost every topic we can study), or we lean upon the spirit to shed light upon the matter we are researching. I come here completely relying on the light shone ON the darkness of this movie by the spirit to me in my sincerely wanting to have a witness of the brethren, in this case President Monson as God's chosen prophet on earth. If something bothers your heart, find out why, that was the process of my researching the movie Pres. Monson quoted.

I feel most discussions (if we can call many of them discussions) on this forum are endless debates over the works of men (scholarly works) and endless histories and facts - when the gospel invitation from the get-go (speaking of Joseph's experience) is to SET ASIDE what we have learned from man and the counsel of man, and to look to God for answers and truth, and the Spirit will shed LIGHT upon things, so we can see how things are, were, and are to come - the truth.

My questions to each of us in this discussion that has gone every which way - is have you taken this to God, why or why not, and if your answer is because it is darkness and stupid - then I say shame on you - for I am a brother, and according to many on here, a lost sheep from the fold - and for such we are to pray to God for their behalves, and are to allow Heaven's inspiration to aid us in answering anyone who comes to the body of the saints seeking whatever answers.

There are very few in this thread who have actually done what the gospel asks in replying to me and I have felt their love through the thick and gross insincere mockery that I'm sick and tired of. Thank you to those people. The rest frankly is garbage - and I trust the reader to filter through that garbage.

My intent was innocent, real, and seeking, after watching GC, and having the spirit shine light on Alice and Wonderland vs. all the things I have read both as Lexew1899 brought out and the opposite, just as I do with every confusing thing within church history, as there are two sides at least to everything it seems - I came here with the doubt that a prophet of God was not able to see the truth that the spirit shed light upon for me in this, yes riddled with mockery of Christ and satanic symbolism which I hope to at least end my participation in this discussion with more information as the spirit directed me then and now..

I did not accuse Pres. Monson - I am attacking the movie a prophet of God quoted, and asking if a prophet of God should discern the same, bring it to light, or be quoting it at all - which quote is now in the annals of church history, which will be a tradition passed onto the next generation. The Holy Spirit put a light on the darkness of this movie for me. It is a movie that mocks Christ. That is NOT ok with me, and I declare boldly such a movie grieves the spirit.

Yes, Satan seeks to mock all things Christ, and puts his vain symbols and logos on almost everything in this earth - and unless we take the Holy Spirit as our guide, indeed very few of us will enter into that straightest and narrowest of paths, for wide is the gate - so wide it seems that it just might be more important than most realize to discern the truth about a seemingly unimportant movie quoted by a prophet of God.

Thank you for allowing this discussion. No thank you to those LDS here who have done nothing the gospel asks, even when there is something controversial and seemingly causing one to fear, which fear is the opposite of faith.

[BrotherOfMahonri]

I recently read in the Book of Mormon, aside from the murders etc., a scene where Lamanite men raped Nephite women. According to you This is getting so old, it now is putrid and stinks. According to me huh? You are that shallow and can't really see things in a more mature light? You have to come in with your candle and try and twist what I'm sharing towards the WRITTEN WORD OF GOD? Let me help you please. I am talking about a dark movie - you are comparing what I am talking about with inspired scripture? and want that to make me look bad somehow? This is typical and so glaringly obvious now with you.

Listen shadow - you are a horrible missionary to my family, the worse. You are not helping, just as iwritestuff, take a hike - you suck (and if you didn't catch it in my response to iwritestuff - suck is a strong ugly word in our home) at missionary work with our family, and I want no part, place, or anything remotely related to your version of the gospel, it is ugliness to our family and that at your serving your "love" to us, and everything you have done to us on this forum is a testament to your version of the gospel, and it stinks putrid to me, which we want nothing to do with. Please have the respect that iWriteStuff had enough to have now knocked at our door, shoved your version of the gospel loud and clear, which I was loving enough to consider, despite it lacking love almost entirely, if not completely - and whatever inspiration you think you have given us into our faces and leave. You are not discussing anything, but are attacking, ridiculing and mocking. =; Go away. Your work with my family failed - leave and step no more into our lives.

Man up and walk away from my family, my patience is no longer there with your version of love and the gospel.

, we shouldn't read the Book of Mormon, let alone quote from it?? It's various scenes are far more graphic and evil than any evil one must strain and contort to find in Alice in Wonderland- a book you admit you haven't even read #-o
Apply your rhetoric equally and see where it gets you. I double-dog dare you. You'll find yourself either on the side of stupidity or ignorance.

Thank you again for your great missionary work and Heavenly inspiration - walk away from my family, as my next step is to ask God to intervene and that powerfully.

[Lexew1899]

I don't think he is quoting the movie though. He specifically references the book each time, the lines are verbatim from the book not the cartoon, or live action film.

I looked to see if he ever specifically mentioned a movie, but it doesn't seem like he does. Here is a quote that is a bit longer...

In Lewis Carroll’s classic Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland, Alice finds herself coming to a crossroads with two paths before her, each stretching onward but in opposite directions. She is confronted by the Cheshire Cat, of whom she asks, “Which path shall I take?”

The cat answers: “That depends where you want to go. If you do not know where you want to go, it doesn’t really matter which path you take!”

Either way it may not matter to you, but I do agree that the movies are weird. I never liked them one bit. And have no desire to see the live action movies. From what I understand those are even more satanic than the cartoon. Involves Alice drinking blood and such things. Very strange indeed.

Although the pc game is probably the most unholy of all Alice based media. Here is a magazine cover for the game...

Here is art depicting what is to be found in game...

Pretty creepy.

[skmo]

Hmm, if we should find light in everything. Here are some Hitler speeches with translations to watch. Enjoy...

Actually, there are whole college classes on Leni Riefenstahl's movie Triumph of the Will about Hitler's rise to power. Indeed, there's a lot to be learned from the experiences of Hitler. He's terrible, but he's a world class example of some things.

[setyourselffree]

Hmm, if we should find light in everything. Here are some Hitler speeches with translations to watch. Enjoy...

Actually, there are whole college classes on Leni Riefenstahl's movie Triumph of the Will about Hitler's rise to power. Indeed, there's a lot to be learned from the experiences of Hitler. He's terrible, but he's a world class example of some things.

And if we didn't have Hitler we wouldn't have the interstate system.

[BrotherOfMahonri]

I recently read in the Book of Mormon, aside from the murders etc., a scene where Lamanite men raped Nephite women. According to you This is getting so old, it now is putrid and stinks. According to me huh? You are that shallow and can't really see things in a more mature light? You have to come in with your candle and try and twist what I'm sharing towards the WRITTEN WORD OF GOD? Let me help you please. I am talking about a dark movie - you are comparing what I am talking about with inspired scripture? and want that to make me look bad somehow? This is typical and so glaringly obvious now with you.

Listen shadow - you are a horrible missionary to my family, the worse. You are not helping, just as iwritestuff, take a hike - you suck (and if you didn't catch it in my response to iwritestuff - suck is a strong ugly word in our home) at missionary work with our family, and I want no part, place, or anything remotely related to your version of the gospel, it is ugliness to our family and that at your serving your "love" to us, and everything you have done to us on this forum is a testament to your version of the gospel, and it stinks putrid to me, which we want nothing to do with. Please have the respect that iWriteStuff had enough to have now knocked at our door, shoved your version of the gospel loud and clear, which I was loving enough to consider, despite it lacking love almost entirely, if not completely - and whatever inspiration you think you have given us into our faces and leave. You are not discussing anything, but are attacking, ridiculing and mocking. =; Go away. Your work with my family failed - leave and step no more into our lives.

Man up and walk away from my family, my patience is no longer there with your version of love and the gospel.

, we shouldn't read the Book of Mormon, let alone quote from it?? It's various scenes are far more graphic and evil than any evil one must strain and contort to find in Alice in Wonderland- a book you admit you haven't even read #-o
Apply your rhetoric equally and see where it gets you. I double-dog dare you. You'll find yourself either on the side of stupidity or ignorance.

Thank you again for your great missionary work and Heavenly inspiration - walk away from my family, as my next step is to ask God to intervene and that powerfully.

I don't think that is how God works. If he was to intervene with Shadow he would be taking away his agency, someone as spiritual as you should know that right. If God intervened there would be no hate in world, no poverty, no war. If he intervened you would not be on this forum anymore.

Then maybe you know not neither the love I pray with as Lehi did for his people in behalf of shadow and the discernment such love can attain to, nor the God of the scriptures who warned Lehi's people of things to come, the God who warns to not offend his little ones, who says of those pointing the finger of scorn in the attitude of mocking from the great and spacious building at those who are partaking of God's love (period)...

[jbalm]

Then maybe you know not neither the love I pray with as Lehi did for his people in behalf of shadow and the discernment such love can attain to, nor the God of the scriptures who warned Lehi's people of things to come, the God who warns to not offend his little ones, who says of those pointing the finger of scorn in the attitude of mocking from the great and spacious building at those who are partaking of God's love (period)...

You sure about that?

215.jpg (292.9 KiB) Viewed 1704 times

[setyourselffree]

I recently read in the Book of Mormon, aside from the murders etc., a scene where Lamanite men raped Nephite women. According to you This is getting so old, it now is putrid and stinks. According to me huh? You are that shallow and can't really see things in a more mature light? You have to come in with your candle and try and twist what I'm sharing towards the WRITTEN WORD OF GOD? Let me help you please. I am talking about a dark movie - you are comparing what I am talking about with inspired scripture? and want that to make me look bad somehow? This is typical and so glaringly obvious now with you.

Listen shadow - you are a horrible missionary to my family, the worse. You are not helping, just as iwritestuff, take a hike - you suck (and if you didn't catch it in my response to iwritestuff - suck is a strong ugly word in our home) at missionary work with our family, and I want no part, place, or anything remotely related to your version of the gospel, it is ugliness to our family and that at your serving your "love" to us, and everything you have done to us on this forum is a testament to your version of the gospel, and it stinks putrid to me, which we want nothing to do with. Please have the respect that iWriteStuff had enough to have now knocked at our door, shoved your version of the gospel loud and clear, which I was loving enough to consider, despite it lacking love almost entirely, if not completely - and whatever inspiration you think you have given us into our faces and leave. You are not discussing anything, but are attacking, ridiculing and mocking. =; Go away. Your work with my family failed - leave and step no more into our lives.

Man up and walk away from my family, my patience is no longer there with your version of love and the gospel.

, we shouldn't read the Book of Mormon, let alone quote from it?? It's various scenes are far more graphic and evil than any evil one must strain and contort to find in Alice in Wonderland- a book you admit you haven't even read #-o
Apply your rhetoric equally and see where it gets you. I double-dog dare you. You'll find yourself either on the side of stupidity or ignorance.

Thank you again for your great missionary work and Heavenly inspiration - walk away from my family, as my next step is to ask God to intervene and that powerfully.

I don't think that is how God works. If he was to intervene with Shadow he would be taking away his agency, someone as spiritual as you should know that right. If God intervened there would be no hate in world, no poverty, no war. If he intervened you would not be on this forum anymore.

Then maybe you know not neither the love I pray with as Lehi did for his people in behalf of shadow and the discernment such love can attain to, nor the God of the scriptures who warned Lehi's people of things to come, the God who warns to not offend his little ones, who says of those pointing the finger of scorn in the attitude of mocking from the great and spacious building at those who are partaking of God's love (period)...

I

[setyourselffree]

I recently read in the Book of Mormon, aside from the murders etc., a scene where Lamanite men raped Nephite women. According to you This is getting so old, it now is putrid and stinks. According to me huh? You are that shallow and can't really see things in a more mature light? You have to come in with your candle and try and twist what I'm sharing towards the WRITTEN WORD OF GOD? Let me help you please. I am talking about a dark movie - you are comparing what I am talking about with inspired scripture? and want that to make me look bad somehow? This is typical and so glaringly obvious now with you.

Listen shadow - you are a horrible missionary to my family, the worse. You are not helping, just as iwritestuff, take a hike - you suck (and if you didn't catch it in my response to iwritestuff - suck is a strong ugly word in our home) at missionary work with our family, and I want no part, place, or anything remotely related to your version of the gospel, it is ugliness to our family and that at your serving your "love" to us, and everything you have done to us on this forum is a testament to your version of the gospel, and it stinks putrid to me, which we want nothing to do with. Please have the respect that iWriteStuff had enough to have now knocked at our door, shoved your version of the gospel loud and clear, which I was loving enough to consider, despite it lacking love almost entirely, if not completely - and whatever inspiration you think you have given us into our faces and leave. You are not discussing anything, but are attacking, ridiculing and mocking. =; Go away. Your work with my family failed - leave and step no more into our lives.

Man up and walk away from my family, my patience is no longer there with your version of love and the gospel.

, we shouldn't read the Book of Mormon, let alone quote from it?? It's various scenes are far more graphic and evil than any evil one must strain and contort to find in Alice in Wonderland- a book you admit you haven't even read #-o
Apply your rhetoric equally and see where it gets you. I double-dog dare you. You'll find yourself either on the side of stupidity or ignorance.

Thank you again for your great missionary work and Heavenly inspiration - walk away from my family, as my next step is to ask God to intervene and that powerfully.

I don't think that is how God works. If he was to intervene with Shadow he would be taking away his agency, someone as spiritual as you should know that right. If God intervened there would be no hate in world, no poverty, no war. If he intervened you would not be on this forum anymore.

Then maybe you know not neither the love I pray with as Lehi did for his people in behalf of shadow and the discernment such love can attain to, nor the God of the scriptures who warned Lehi's people of things to come, the God who warns to not offend his little ones, who says of those pointing the finger of scorn in the attitude of mocking from the great and spacious building at those who are partaking of God's love (period)...

Is this better?

[BrotherOfMahonri]

Is this better?

Someone on this thread asked your motive of using our family photo as your avatar - did you ask yourself about your motive at that point as invited by a fellow saint? Did you do an Elder Scott self introspection on your motives? I try to do so each day, esp. when a thread like this goes so crazy.

Maybe you didn't know it is copyright infringement to use a copyrighted photo you found on google without express permission (here is some advice on that matter we can learn from: https://www.sla.org/using-google-images ... rmissions/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ) - but hey we all make mistakes, esp. yours truly (myself), and the gospel asks us to forgive and move on, but please - refrain from any image of my wife and kids, mock me personally all you want but an invite to remember the words of Christ in all we do.