Alice in Wonderland 101 - Pedophile Author, Satanic and Occult Inspired Movie

[BrotherOfMahonri]

Hey, at least he watched Conference ;)

I propose a rule: GAs can only quote scriptures from now on. Except when the characters in them kill people, behave unrighteously (ie: sin), practice incest, or are influenced by immorality. That'll keep us all on the straight and narrow for sure.

So in other words, you are comparing inspired scripture (what God wanted us to consider, incest, immorality and all) with Satan's counterfeit Alice and Wonderland?

No, you're the one making the comparison. And swallowing camels wholesale in the process (as opposed to that gnat you were craving).

Weren't you the pious individual previously bragging about being able to find inspiration in kids movies? And now kids movies are the devil and should never be mentioned in talks? It's a wonderful double standard, but wildly inconsistent to embrace one in your house and then denounce another because a Prophet of God mentioned it in a talk :ymsick:

An invite to measure by what spirit's influence we "react" to others by...

I can now assume you are stating that Alice in Wonderland is to you a Child's movie per your mixing it saying, "And now kids movies are the devil and should never be mentioned in talks?"?

Did you see how you jumped from the gnat to the camel just now in your reaction to me? Assuming the worse is not a fruit of the spirit.

Please go back and read what I said about Finding Nemo and how God spoke to my heart one day recently returned from my mission, when I brought my two young siblings at their request to see the new rated G movie.

What God spoke to me was not from any words in the movie, but he used the opportunity when I paid attention to the relationship of two character to speak comfort to my heart, and there is so much more to the fact of being with and loving my two younger siblings, and my ability to focus my mind while the movie plays on without interruption of thought other than the movie, in which movie I mostly see polygons counts, empty wire mesh characters, actors, and the lives of the actors more than the fictitious movie itself.

Your reaction is no surprise, and it is something I am so happy God took us away from, even like Lehi from Jerusalem, did God take us away from heartlessness within the body of the saints, born of whatever spirit you want to attribute such a perfected assumptive reaction to.

[BrotherOfMahonri]

What did the Cheshire Cat say that was so offensive?

You are missing the point of the discussion... please read right above your comment...

[Separatist]

"One of the grand fundamental principles of Mormonism is to receive truth, let it come from whence it may."

[BrotherOfMahonri]

"One of the grand fundamental principles of Mormonism is to receive truth, let it come from whence it may."

Such an irony, completely agreed - but why are we not given the same courtesy for Heaven's sake?! literally...

We can find truth wherever it is to be found, be it in whatever form we ourselves allow in our lives (God will beckon to us, no matter whre we are, his love is always reaching for us and can reach through any medium), be it rated R movies, Alice and Wonderland, etc. - but to the point, we are talking about the mouth of God on earth, the prophet - nowhere in gospel scriptures have I found prophets of God quoting their entertainment industry authors of their days, nor have I found anywhere closely related to prophets quoting authors whose work is riddled with anti-christ mockery... but would have had in my assumption the wherewithall (or in Mormon wording, prophesy, seership, revelation, discerning) to know that such an author, or the author's message or story or movie were satanic-derived.

The hypocrisy is maddening, we can't quote anything as lay members in any church formal setting (GC is the most formal I would propose) from any source unless it is of the manuals or the brethren of the church, "approved and filtered", but Pres. Monson, the prophet of God, our leader, chooses to inspire us by quoting from a satanic-inspired story and author - and then members of this forum (iWriteStuff specifically) hint at comparing such farewell address to King Benjamins, where he tears down these types of traditions if you will of their day.

[Separatist]

Perhaps you missed the point Pres Monson was trying to make.

Can we quote the devil himself?

Why do you think you can't quote whatever you want as a lay member. You're a free agent.

[skmo]

Fair enough, but I would never know that was from Gone with the Wind, why wouldn't I know that? Uneducated? Un-cultured? Not of the world?

Are you from Utah? I grew up in Alaska and Colorado and over the 30 years I've been married, I've been quite surprised about jokes or references I made that my wife didn't get. Enough difference between CO and UT that it still occasionally surprises me.

However, are you not perpetuating traditions of the fathers then by quoting from movies you've never seen? Are you not completely proving a deeper point, that you are continuing the traditions of things you didn't know about?

I don't see it that way. You do. At least we have an understanding of our misunderstanding.

Do you see my point in this?

Yes, I just disagree.

[iWriteStuff]

Hey, at least he watched Conference ;)

I propose a rule: GAs can only quote scriptures from now on. Except when the characters in them kill people, behave unrighteously (ie: sin), practice incest, or are influenced by immorality. That'll keep us all on the straight and narrow for sure.

So in other words, you are comparing inspired scripture (what God wanted us to consider, incest, immorality and all) with Satan's counterfeit Alice and Wonderland?

No, you're the one making the comparison. And swallowing camels wholesale in the process (as opposed to that gnat you were craving).

Weren't you the pious individual previously bragging about being able to find inspiration in kids movies? And now kids movies are the devil and should never be mentioned in talks? It's a wonderful double standard, but wildly inconsistent to embrace one in your house and then denounce another because a Prophet of God mentioned it in a talk :ymsick:

An invite to measure by what spirit's influence we "react" to others by...

I can now assume you are stating that Alice in Wonderland is to you a Child's movie per your mixing it saying, "And now kids movies are the devil and should never be mentioned in talks?"?

Did you see how you jumped from the gnat to the camel just now in your reaction to me? Assuming the worse is not a fruit of the spirit.

Please go back and read what I said about Finding Nemo and how God spoke to my heart one day recently returned from my mission, when I brought my two young siblings at their request to see the new rated G movie.

What God spoke to me was not from any words in the movie, but he used the opportunity when I paid attention to the relationship of two character to speak comfort to my heart, and there is so much more to the fact of being with and loving my two younger siblings, and my ability to focus my mind while the movie plays on without interruption of thought other than the movie, in which movie I mostly see polygons counts, empty wire mesh characters, actors, and the lives of the actors more than the fictitious movie itself.

Your reaction is no surprise, and it is something I am so happy God took us away from, even like Lehi from Jerusalem, did God take us away from heartlessness within the body of the saints, born of whatever spirit you want to attribute such a perfected assumptive reaction to.

Ah, so a child's movie (or anything, really) can be a means by which God speaks to us when the Spirit is present and our minds are enlightened.... Let's use that.

The lesson of the Cheshire Cat is that A) one needs to know where they are trying to go and B) choose the path that leads there. Why can't we value the truth in that lesson instead of focusing on the author's personal issues? You seem to be arguing that Lewis Carroll's character flaws are more important than the lesson taught by the cat or even than the inspired message a Prophet of God was delivering to the church. For me, it's less difficult to see the eternal truth in the story of the cat (again: purposefully choosing the right path) and much more difficult to understand the emphasis on the author's secret and as yet unproven lifestyle choices. Why is that less difficult? Because, like a child, I am eager to learn eternal truth rather than condemn the one who is teaching it (ie: a Prophet of God). The lesson is valid; your criticism is not.

My reaction to your continued persecution of the church and its leaders is one of disappointment. Your thread does not edify, uplift, or encourage Godly behavior. Rather, it seeks to condemn a Prophet of God for the most trivial of reasons. That's not of God. Neither is your attempt at distracting people away from the eternal truth he was teaching.

I truly feel sorry for you. This path you have taken continues to show its fruits and they are bitter.

[skmo]

The hypocrisy is maddening, we can't quote anything as lay members in any church formal setting (GC is the most formal I would propose) from any source unless it is of the manuals or the brethren of the church, "approved and filtered", but Pres. Monson, the prophet of God, our leader, chooses to inspire us by quoting from a satanic-inspired story and author - and then members of this forum (iWriteStuff specifically) hint at comparing such farewell address to King Benjamins, where he tears down these types of traditions if you will of their day.

I'm wondering what you're talking about. Who is telling you we can't say anything in church without it being in a manual? I can't say anything in church at the moment since I'm excommunicated, but I've taught a LOT of Sunday School classes and given Sacrament talks using whatever I felt inspired to use. I'm wondering if you're being overly-sensitive to what you hear from other members or if members are just being buttheads to you. (It wouldn't surprise me if it were the latter, there's a reason members from outside of Utah came up with the term "Utah Mormons.")

[BrotherOfMahonri]

The hypocrisy is maddening, we can't quote anything as lay members in any church formal setting (GC is the most formal I would propose) from any source unless it is of the manuals or the brethren of the church, "approved and filtered", but Pres. Monson, the prophet of God, our leader, chooses to inspire us by quoting from a satanic-inspired story and author - and then members of this forum (iWriteStuff specifically) hint at comparing such farewell address to King Benjamins, where he tears down these types of traditions if you will of their day.

I'm wondering what you're talking about. Who is telling you we can't say anything in church without it being in a manual?
This has occurred to me now in various wards - one example was when I used a quote from John Pontious that I felt the Spirit tell me to use as I prepared for the lesson (to then go back to the manual after the quote), and that alone has got me in the bishop's office to be reprimanded by the EQP and Bishop.gh
I can't say anything in church at the moment since I'm excommunicated, but I've taught a LOT of Sunday School classes and given Sacrament talks using whatever I felt inspired to use.
And this in Utah?

I'm wondering if you're being overly-sensitive to what you hear from other members or if members are just being buttheads to you. (It wouldn't surprise me if it were the latter, there's a reason members from outside of Utah came up with the term "Utah Mormons.")

I know I'm sensitive in many ways - God raises each of us up for purposes in Him if we allow him to. But also the latter "buttheads" could also be true, but I personally do not see people as "buttheads" - just the way God made me, I love anyone I meet, no matter what they do to me and this type of love, born of God, is seen mostly by active LDS as arrogance, pride, self-righteousness, and apostasy. If only I could paint the perspective right now of this type of Love and point it out in the life of Christ where "members" of the church were so offended by His love.

[iWriteStuff]

The hypocrisy is maddening, we can't quote anything as lay members in any church formal setting (GC is the most formal I would propose) from any source unless it is of the manuals or the brethren of the church, "approved and filtered", but Pres. Monson, the prophet of God, our leader, chooses to inspire us by quoting from a satanic-inspired story and author - and then members of this forum (iWriteStuff specifically) hint at comparing such farewell address to King Benjamins, where he tears down these types of traditions if you will of their day.

Nah, dude, you didn't even understand my statement re: using scriptures only (unless the characters are guilty of personal sin). The statement was tongue in cheek (glaringly obvious, I thought), meant to illustrate, as Separatist says, that we embrace truth from any source. Truth is truth. The only one rejecting the truthful message of TSM's talk right now seems to be you.

Is it because you don't like the message of choosing the path that leads to Christ? Perhaps because part of the message is that coming unto Christ involves serving within His church and learning from chosen Prophets? Having rejected the church and the Prophets, this is not a path you have chosen. Thus you must reject the message too, finding fault with it and the messenger.

If you don't like the message, attack the message. Tell me where President Monson is wrong. Otherwise, your attempts to ridicule him are transparent and sad.

FWIW, I've quoted all sorts of sources in talks, lessons, comments, etc. So have plenty of lessons or talks I've heard. This whole "we can't quote anything" stuff is a straw man you've created to justify attacking a Prophet. Good luck with that.

[Separatist]

This is akin to us accusing you of sending subliminal messages to your daughters for having them were pastels in your avatar.

Ridiculous eh? I think so.

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[BrotherOfMahonri]

...

It is exhausting to try and relate to people here by answering sincerely to some of the questions, only to realize those people misuse what I share every time, make up assumptions that are grandiose from my sharing a small snippet of info openly into my life - and turn around and say, you are playing the victim card, blah blah, etc. etc.. you mean this, this is your motives, your intent, etc.

God alone knows my heart, and I'm done being played in what feels now like 99% fictitious love from yourself and many like you. Can you honestly state you love me in this discussion and that love you love me with is of God? Ironic that you call me out for not seeing the positive, and yet you failed miserably to take your own advice in this thread - seeing the positive and inspiring me with your Heavenly Inspiration in response to my OP and other thoughts.

Go back and read my comments - this discussion is about the satan-inspired content of the story, which is thick and dark, as others have appointed out as well, forget the character flaws of the author - focus on the story - AND if a Prophet of God should be quoting from it, and where in all fruits of prophets of the scriptures we can find the same, it is about false traditions, etc.. the discussion is good, excepting when you entered it.

Yes, you can find inspiration in what President Monson quoted, I never said one could not - you alone have assumed the worse... you alone have changed this thread's conversation and turned this discussion into your candle-of-righteousness for calling out your perfected assumption of myself, motives, etc. putting words in my mouth I NEVER said go back and read it again..

Never once did I say that Pres. Monson wasn't inspired, never once did I state anything about the use of what he quoted as being without value... you alone have assumed a perfected reaction - go back and read again, I am looking for SAME positive reply you are crying about from yourself to my OP, just try it I dare you. Do you not know what it means to discuss? have a discussion?

You have proven to me that when anyone not of your taste of "discussion standards" discusses anything (in this case the title is Alice in Wonderland 101 - Pedophile Author, Satanic and Occult Inspired Movie) real about something a holy brethren has said, used, or quoted - it is a damnable offense and out of bounds to discuss.

Here is the cherry on the top of your perfected false assumptions of myself... ready?

My reaction to your continued persecution of the church and its leaders is one of disappointment. Your thread does not edify, uplift, or encourage Godly behavior. Rather, it seeks to condemn a Prophet of God for the most trivial of reasons. That's not of God. Neither is your attempt at distracting people away from the eternal truth he was teaching.

I truly feel sorry for you. This path you have taken continues to show its fruits and they are bitter.

Now that you got it out, go away and allow the discussion that was taking place, which discussion I was grateful for as we are seeking a witness of these men being who they claim to be - you are not helping in the least and I am able to see that the gospel is NOT what many members on this forum attempt to shove down our throats - I want no part of the gospel you preach, Zero, zilch, nada - if you are the fruit of the gospel restored, I want no part of that fruit - harsh? absolutely. You are NOT our missionary (boy oh boy), so do the right thing iWriteStuff and quit trying to be the righteous ark steadier in our seeking this witness of Pres. Monson - you "suck" at helping us. Go away and leave us alone. Get it? You do not help in the least.

Congratulations, you pulled it out of me ^^^ no this ^^^ is not the uplifting stuff you speak of - I agree, but now you at least know your missionary efforts to our family suck (and that is a word that is not pretty in our home), and we are asking you to go away while we listen to other members of your faith who have more love and can discuss with our family things that are road blocks to the witness you claim to defend, even at the cost of false assumptions towards us.

[skmo]

(It wouldn't surprise me if it were the latter, there's a reason members from outside of Utah came up with the term "Utah Mormons.")

Lest we get off topic, let me say I know there are good and bad members of the church everywhere. The term "Utah Mormons" is a kind of regional reference showing differences in how groups interact. In Alaska, one of the Eskimo groups of people are the Yup'ik. They live mainly near the coast and/or along major rivers. If you have Yup'ik from the Lower Yukon and another from the Lower Kuskokwim, The two groups are going to belittle the other because "They speak funny" and "They don't dance right" but throw white people into the mix and the two groups are united as one that all the world's problems are because of the white man and they, the Yup'ik, have all the right answers to all of life (Funny how it also involved the white peoples' money.)

[BrotherOfMahonri]

(It wouldn't surprise me if it were the latter, there's a reason members from outside of Utah came up with the term "Utah Mormons.")

Lest we get off topic, let me say I know there are good and bad members of the church everywhere. The term "Utah Mormons" is a kind of regional reference showing differences in how groups interact. In Alaska, one of the Eskimo groups of people are the Yup'ik. They live mainly near the coast and/or along major rivers. If you have Yup'ik from the Lower Yukon and another from the Lower Kuskokwim, The two groups are going to belittle the other because "They speak funny" and "They don't dance right" but throw white people into the mix and the two groups are united as one that all the world's problems are because of the white man and they, the Yup'ik, have all the right answers to all of life (Funny how it also involved the white peoples' money.)

This is part of discussion, I am grateful for the change in direction, thank you.

Having flown out of Utah now for 3 years (almost an obsession) awaiting the Lord's OK to move from this state - I have found LDS who are not like the LDS in Happy Valley (utah county) Utah. It is not all the saints here, we have some friends the Lord has put in our path of late (active LDS - who would offend most on this forum for sure) who are closely in tune with our feelings and beliefs - a blessing for sure. I have enjoyed Washington State's LDS culture. Adam Ondi Ahman Missouri ward we lived in for 3 months, felt like Utah on steroids - we were not special enough to be in the chosen land... and were told as much by members, because we didn't have a special story of how we got to Missouri, just were seeking reprieve from Utah for a time (should have moved to the east coast).

[BrotherOfMahonri]

I see you haven't changed a bit since Ive been gone lol. Must be exhausting to be you.

Let's see if you can eat your own words...

Buttacup - What an Inspiring, Thoughtful, beautiful, even Heavenly Inspired by the Holy Ghost in the moment you needed the words to give to those seeking response!

You and iWriteStuff, please leave this thread, your missionary efforts for this now resigned, beautiful family are sick, suck, and are nowhere close to the gospel I think you claim to live by. They stink. An invite to go read the new missionary manual, as it was mostly inspired of Elder Scott, then come back and try to reply in the love of God to us with something that actually has any discussion in it.

We will now continue the discussion with those who actually have fruits of living the gospel, hopefully without these amazingly helpful, insightful, non-self-candle-burning-bright witty, whimsical, cute and cuddly, one-liner inspired comments.

[BrotherOfMahonri]

I would point out that the book Alice in Wonderland differs significantly from the Disney movie.

Enough to cause you to want to discuss more about it? I agree, it is more dark and satanic-purposefully created and inspired than most Disney movies. Do you think a prophet of God should at least call out (some may think this is a politically correct garbage request) the movie he is quoting from, why or why not? Do you know of any examples in scripture that can remotely relate to this thread's topic? Any help is welcome.

[Faith]

Looking beyond the mark, Bro. By their fruits ye shall know them. Our phophet's fruit is good and desirable.

[BrotherOfMahonri]

Looking beyond the mark, Bro. By their fruits ye shall know them. Our phophet's fruit is good and desirable.

Yes, quit looking beyond the mark - I see clearly the good fruits of Pres. Monson - EXACT SAME BEAUTIFUL, good and desirable fruits I can find in many a man outside the church, even and esp. your husband - and have said nothing of those good fruits in this thread as I have "testified" (if that helps you) of in other threads, as that is not the road block here, and please and thank you - unless you are capable of "helping" this "lost" family with some of those fruits specific to prophets, seership, and revelation found in the scriptures and Josephs Smith (but lacking thereafter), no need to continue your agenda here painting whatever perfected assumptions of our family you have done so far, much to our hurt (ie. little sibling and his wife who took your "loving" advice beyond the mark)...

[jwharton]

I can see both sides of this discussion pretty clearly, I believe.

While I agree these things can appear unsettling, we should not jump to any conclusions.

To what degree do we hope to benefit from belaboring this?
The fact is we have woefully insufficient facts to prove anything either way.

Do we really want to do what it would take to reach a confirmed conclusion (one way or another) on what appears to be the insinuation that Pres. Monson has a hidden dark side that he is unwittingly exposing, at best, or deliberately exposing for a consciously nefarious purpose of some kind?

For example, was he sending a message to others in covert sleeper cells who are in the know on how to decode it, while the rest of us just think we are being told some nice sounding ideas that are completely benign of any such loaded meanings? Secret societies do work this way, but for what purpose? Maybe there are some higher ups they are grooming to join in this secret combination and that was a message for them.

My point in saying this is do we really want to start wrapping our minds around all that we would have to here?
For the most part, we are talking about things here that the vast majority of us are ill-equipped to really get into.
It would take a very special and pure soul to ferret out the information required without being overwhelmed in the process.
This person would have to come to understand how the left-hand path operates to lay a credible accusation with sufficient facts.
Someone would likely have to infiltrate them and receive their covenants and then be willing to suffer their wrath for betraying them.

Is it really feasible that we should risk being exposed to all of the dangers just to get to the bottom of this in this manner?

I say no, at least for myself anyway. There may be others out there God would put on this course of action.

As for me...

There is a better way to go about this than taking a brute force investigation approach by kicking in their front door.
There is also a better way than trying to sneak into their back door too.
The most potent disinfectant to any such pollution or darkness is sunlight.

While it is beneficial to have as much intelligence as possible, there is only so far anyone can be expected to go in learning the adversary's ways.
But, fortunately, we are given a rather handsome amount of information about these things, and probably all we need to know, in our own scriptures.

The Book of Mormon and the Pearl of Great Price both talk about this secret combination that seeks to overthrow (usurp) all that is good.
The point of this is so that we would come to understand that we too would be faced with the adversary's nefarious ways.
We are indeed facing this secret combination right now and it is of a certainty bearing down its full pressure upon us to cave.
I think we really have no idea the amount of pressure the leaders of influential organizations come under by way of these combinations.

But, the whole point I am trying to build up to and to impress upon all of your minds is this:

Our first and foremost item of concern should be to seek first the Kingdom of God.
By so doing, all other needful things will be added unto us, including protection from the adversary.
If we as a body of saints do a re-calibration periodically to make sure the Father's Plan is our aim, we will be safe.
And, what is the Father's Plan? It is the laws and principles of the Celestial Kingdom, which Zion is to be based on.
We need to remember that the Celestial Kingdom isn't some far off destination we will never see until after we die.
The Celestial Kingdom is in fact what we have put ourselves under covenant to build up.
And, the only way anyone is going to enjoy this Kingdom is if we have success and build it.
The greatest power the adversary has is he distracts us and detours us just enough to cause us to miss.
We have already been given the "former commandments" that pertain to the Celestial Order that we must do.

What should alarm us more than Pres. Monson talking about the Cheshire cat is the absence of attention to Celestial Law.
Why do we have such a state of near complete ignorance and misunderstanding where the United Order is concerned?

If we really want to flush out any left-hand path infiltrators and usurpers that may have worked their way into church leadership...
is all the saints need to do is return our focus onto the Celestial Order and then watch what kind of a reaction our leaders have.
If a leader is in alignment with our covenants to build up the Father's Kingdom their response will be "Hallelujah! It's about time!"
But, if a leader is in fact deluded, seduced, etc. by Lucifer their response will be lies and ultimately a threat of spiritual murder.

So, if there are those who really want to go chasing things down a rabbit hole and explore the dark chambers of the underworld, good luck!
But, as for myself, I'd much prefer to see us simply focus on the Celestial Order we have been given and put under covenant to build.

Unless and until the saints wake up and realize how far we have drifted away from the Celestial order and begin to call for it,
we will never really be able to tell who among our leaders is actually a friend or enemy to the Father's Celestial Plan.

The determining factor is us. If we continue to hold the Celestial Order in contempt and neglect it, the Father will fight against us.
And, in fighting us, the Father will turn us over into the hands of the adversary to take us for a spoil and buffet us.
Our day of redemption will not come unless and until we wake up and repent of our posture of contempt for the Celestial Order.

[Faith]

Please brother, Im sorry for all the offenses of the past. Please forgive me, and all the family for all the offenses to your and your family. We desire your company and to be allowed to be in your presence. You are forgiven of any wrongs on your part. I had nothing to do with our little sibling and his wife and whatever happened. I have asked them a few times. You are a mighty good man, we both love the Savior and teach our kids to follow Him. Are we blocked from each other's PM's here? I tried but it wouldn't let me.
Please forgive us each. We love you. We are all trying our best, like you.
Please, Dear God, please let this amazing soul - my earthly and eternal brother, who thou hast given me for a purpose, who has been a great follower of Christ- please let his heart be healed and erase his pain.
Please forgive us all, Jared. Please forgive me. I have sinned no differently than you. Lets create a perfectly clean slate, through Jesus Christ's enabling power to wipe it clean and begin anew.

[skmo]

This has occurred to me now in various wards - one example was when I used a quote from John Pontious that I felt the Spirit tell me to use as I prepared for the lesson (to then go back to the manual after the quote), and that alone has got me in the bishop's office to be reprimanded by the EQP and Bishop.

I generally know if I've done something wrong. If I use something that's inappropriate and I'm called in for it, I'll listen to the concerns. If I agree I'm wrong, I'll apologize and alter my behavior. If I don't believe I'm wrong, I'll politely explain why I don't think I'm wrong and go on my merry way. Their decision to leave me or replace me is theirs to deal with, not mine. I don't mean to say I'll be dismissive or insulting in any way, but I won't be browbeaten when I believe I'm right. If I truly am wrong and I can't see it, I've no doubt God will find a way to teach me. (Because I truly believe this and I know what kind of lessons He uses, I will genuinely listen and learn as best I can.)

I've been rebuked by the EQP in the middle of a meeting. He went home from church having been yelled at, and I DO me YELLED at, in class, for his attempt to use unrighteous dominion over me.

And this in Utah?

Utah, Idaho, Alaska, and Colorado.]

I personally do not see people as "buttheads"

Trust me, some of us are.

[BrotherOfMahonri]

I can see both sides of this discussion pretty clearly, I believe....

My attempt to summarize what you are saying, but in a simple way.

Lehi saw not the workings of the dirty river of water, he didn't even notice it was dirty. Nephi however saw it. God loves them both and used them both. If we didn't have Lehi - we would never have Nephi's more in depth version. If we eidn't have Nephi, we would ahve missed the lesson behind the dirty river.

It takes light to see the darkness, you said as much in your response. There is nothing wrong when someone has light and shines the light on the darkness, which otherwise would have been missed (ie. Lehi and Nephi and the river) - and is lead to share what hte light showed them about the dark to bless the lives of others. We ARE to use the light to shine on the dark to help others be not deceived. To Lehi he missed the darkness and dirtines of the river entirely. Nephi did not. Was Nephi an aspostate for speaking about the sins of the river and its dirtiness? No, God used Nephi's unique gifts and heart differently than he did Lehi's.

Why can't we as saints allow other saints to be the "gift" of shining light on dark, and in this case the dark was the movie Pres. Monson Quoted - nothing more or less. It is so typical and tiredsome to have so many on this thread speak to all these assumed offenses. Do we not see in ourselves how we react and assume erroneously others motives? What are we afraid of?! The truth will stand no matter what, so quit feeling attacked, quit attacking and reacting, and can we please continue DISCUSSING now in light of the example of Lehi and Nephi seeing the same river so very differently and they were both used, loved, and inspired of God.

My OP has NOTHING to do with mocking Pres. Monson at all, I have said NOTHING but agreed with the positive said about his message (which came from the false assumptions of my motives towards the man and his overall message).

Good grief people - I feel like crying out what Joseph Smith said of the saints in his days,

I am not learned, but I have as good feelings as any man. Oh, that I had the language of the archangel to express my feelings once to my friends! But I never expect to in this life.

There has been a great difficulty in getting anything into the heads of this generation. It has been like splitting hemlock knots with a corn-dodger [a piece of corn bread] for a wedge, and a pumpkin for a beetle [a wooden mallet]. Even the Saints are slow to understand.

I have tried for a number of years to get the minds of the Saints prepared to receive the things of God; but we frequently see some of them, after suffering all they have for the work of God, will fly to pieces like glass as soon as anything comes that is contrary to their traditions: they cannot stand the fire at all. How many will be able to abide a celestial law, and go through and receive their exaltation, I am unable to say, as many are called, but few are chosen [see D&C 121:40].

There I quoted from the manual...
https://www.lds.org/manual/teachings-jo ... 5?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[iWriteStuff]

I see you haven't changed a bit since Ive been gone lol. Must be exhausting to be you.

Let's see if you can eat your own words...

Buttacup - What an Inspiring, Thoughtful, beautiful, even Heavenly Inspired by the Holy Ghost in the moment you needed the words to give to those seeking response!

You and iWriteStuff, please leave this thread, your missionary efforts for this now resigned, beautiful family are sick, suck, and are nowhere close to the gospel I think you claim to live by. They stink. An invite to go read the new missionary manual, as it was mostly inspired of Elder Scott, then come back and try to reply in the love of God to us with something that actually has any discussion in it.

We will now continue the discussion with those who actually have fruits of living the gospel, hopefully without these amazingly helpful, insightful, non-self-candle-burning-bright witty, whimsical, cute and cuddly, one-liner inspired comments.

Golly, I thought the manual also recommends calling folks to repentance....

Hey, peace out. Honestly, anyone who has ever tried to help you on this forum gets their hand bit. Or in short, anyone whose thoughts and feelings differ from yours. These apparently include anyone up to and including your own family.

May you find peace. And read something more productive than AiW.

[skmo]

Having flown out of Utah now for 3 years (almost an obsession) awaiting the Lord's OK to move from this state - I have found LDS who are not like the LDS in Happy Valley (utah county) Utah.

Well, one of the things I didn't point out was that now that I'm over some of my childishness, I lost a lot of my disdain for Utah. People everywhere are judgmental, but I'm at the point in my life that I no longer give a rusty nail about others' opinions of me. If people enjoy spending time with me, fine. If not, fine. I still get some positive benefit from having positive people around, but I generally don't let negativity bother me. I've already walked dark and terrible paths all alone with NO ONE by my side (not even the Spirit) and I discovered that I survived. The more positive I get the better things can be, but I already know the most terrible still can't hurt me so why bother concerning myself with it.

(should have moved to the east coast).

Believe me, there are some East Coasters who make snobbish Utah Mormons look like the Lord's Chosen. I don't know if you've heard the term "Boston Brahamin" but there's a reason it exists, and the most snobbish on the hill in Orem or the hill in Holladay don't earn the caste "Brahamin" nickname.

[Jeremy]

May you find peace.

:ymapplause: :ymhug: May each of us.