As it was in the days of Noah

[Sarah]

Sometime early last week I was thinking about various threads on this forum and suddenly I had this scripture come to mind:
41 But as it was in the days of Noah, so it shall be also at the coming of the Son of Man;

This verse just remained stuck in my head for a few days, and I was unsure why, because I wasn't thinking particulary about the last days.
As I thought about how it might apply to what I had encountered on this forum, it dawned on me that Noah was one of the Lord's ordained prophets, as is described in the Book of Moses. Despite the mulititudes on the earth currently that don't believe we have a modern prophet today, in reality our days are like Noah's. We have a prophet too. There was a prophet at the time of the flood, and this time is what the Lord says it will be like right before His coming.

This is what Noah taught: "Hearken, and give heed unto my words; Believe and repent of your sins and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, even as our fathers, and ye shall receive the Holy Ghost, that ye may have all things made manifest; and if ye do not this, the floods will come in upon you."

We have a prophet today who has been ordained like Noah. We hear a similar message that Noah was preaching - hearken to the ordained prophet, be baptized, repent, receive and be guided by the Holy Ghost.

When I turned to the full account in Matthew 24, a few particluar phrases stood out to me that had not previously:

39 So likewise, mine elect, when they shall see all these things, they shall know that he is near, even at the doors;

40 But of that day, and hour, no one knoweth; no, not the angels of God in heaven, but my Father only.

41 But as it was in the days of Noah, so it shall be also at the coming of the Son of Man;

42 For it shall be with them (I think this is referring to "mine elect"), as it was in the days which were before the flood; for until the day that Noah entered into the ark they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage;

43 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.

44 Then shall be fulfilled that which is written, that in the last days, two shall be in the field, the one shall be taken, and the other left;

I thought it was interesting that those who are aware of the signs - and perhaps the Lord is just lumping everyone on the earth together in this statement - were going about their business, not until the flood, but until Noah entered the ark. Will there be an event similar in our day to Noah entering the ark? The next verse simply says "they knew not" until the flood came. I take this to mean that they did not know their fate until it was right upon them. What I believe we can take from this is that just as in the days of Noah, there will be safety in following the prophet.

If you want to know how to prepare for what is coming, just study the words of President Eyring, espeically the last 10 years. Here are a few wonderful talks of his, which are just a drop in the bucket of important things he has taught as part of his mission here on earth.

Be Ready
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... y?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Continuing Revelation
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... n?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Faith and Keys
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... s?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Finding Safety in Counsel
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... l?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Mountains to Climb
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... b?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Voice of warning
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... g?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It is my testimony that whatever comes our way as we approach the Lord's coming, there will be safety in following the prophet. One of the things prophets have told us to do is to store food:

President Ezra Taft Benson said, “The revelation to produce and store food may be as essential to our temporal welfare today as boarding the ark was to the people in the days of Noah” (in Conference Report, Oct. 1987, 61; or Ensign, Nov. 1987, 49).

President Spencer W. Kimball explained that when Noah built the ark, “there was no evidence of rain and flood. … His warnings were considered irrational. … How foolish to build an ark on dry ground with the sun shining and life moving forward as usual! But time ran out. The ark was finished. The floods came. The disobedient and rebellious were drowned. The miracle of the ark followed the faith manifested in its building” (Faith Precedes the Miracle [1972], 5–6).

[friendsofthe]

39 So likewise, mine elect, when they shall see all these things, they shall know that he is near, even at the doors;

40 But of that day, and hour, no one knoweth; no, not the angels of God in heaven, but my Father only.

41 But as it was in the days of Noah, so it shall be also at the coming of the Son of Man;

42 For it shall be with them, as it was in the days which were before the flood; for until the day that Noah entered into the ark they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage;

43 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.

I’m going to say that the “with them” in verse 42 does not refer to the elect, Noah and his family were the elect in this case. They knew what was going on and were saved from the flood.

The elect in our day will also know what is going on and will be prepared. In verse 40 we read:

40 But of that day, and hour, no one knoweth; no, not the angels of God in heaven, but my Father only.

This was true in the day that Christ spoke it but it will not be the case with the elect of our day for the Prophet Joseph said:

“Christ says no man knoweth the day or the hour when the Son of Man cometh. This is a sweeping argument for sectarianism against Latter day ism. Did Christ speak this as a general principle throughout all generations Oh no he spoke in the present tense no man that was then liveing upon the footstool of God knew the day or the hour But he did not say that there was no man throughout all generations that should not know the day or the hour. No for this would be in flat contradiction with other scripture for the prophet says that God will do nothing but what he will reveal unto his Servants the prophets consequently if it is not made known to the Prophets it will not come to pass". (Joseph Smith, General Conference, April 6, 1843

[Sarah]

39 So likewise, mine elect, when they shall see all these things, they shall know that he is near, even at the doors;

40 But of that day, and hour, no one knoweth; no, not the angels of God in heaven, but my Father only.

41 But as it was in the days of Noah, so it shall be also at the coming of the Son of Man;

42 For it shall be with them, as it was in the days which were before the flood; for until the day that Noah entered into the ark they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage;

43 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.

I’m going to say that the “with them” in verse 42 does not refer to the elect, Noah and his family were the elect in this case. They knew what was going on and were saved from the flood.

The elect in our day will also know what is going on and will be prepared. In verse 40 we read:

40 But of that day, and hour, no one knoweth; no, not the angels of God in heaven, but my Father only.

This was true in the day that Christ spoke it but it will not be the case with the elect of our day for the Prophet Joseph said:

“Christ says no man knoweth the day or the hour when the Son of Man cometh. This is a sweeping argument for sectarianism against Latter day ism. Did Christ speak this as a general principle throughout all generations Oh no he spoke in the present tense no man that was then liveing upon the footstool of God knew the day or the hour But he did not say that there was no man throughout all generations that should not know the day or the hour. No for this would be in flat contradiction with other scripture for the prophet says that God will do nothing but what he will reveal unto his Servants the prophets consequently if it is not made known to the Prophets it will not come to pass". (Joseph Smith, General Conference, April 6, 1843

I think you are right and appreciate you pointing out my error in wondering if the elect were some who were taken away in the flood. The elect are defined in vs. 39 as those who recognized the signs and it makes sense that Noah and his family were the elect, because they did see the signs and heeded them. Perhaps that will be one of the defining features of the elect in our day.

[zionminded]

We over use the phrase "follow the prophet". You should follow Christ! Are we the children of Israel and need to have a lesser law? I think so. I guess that's what Jacob 5 meant.

[deep water]

Sarah; We the church of lds are under condemnation. We will remain under this condemnation until we repent and remember the NEW COVENANT and the teaching found in the Book of Mormon. To find the New Covenant we need to go back and find the New Wine that the Lord said could not be poured into old bottles. Saul was a hater of Christians. He became a rich man, for a man of his station, because he was so zealous at hunting down Christians, for the High Priests. After several years of hunting down Christians after the Death of Christ. Christ brought about a New Covenant through a new vessel, Paul. Circumcision was done away wthl under this New Covenant. Tithes was done away under this New Covenant. The pyramid religious structure, found in the old testament, was done away under the New covenant. A congregation of Saints, I will be your God, if you will be my people was the new religious structure brought forth through Paul's teachings. No man will have need to ask his neighbor, "know yea the Lord" for all who are left will know the Lord. Those who survive the day of burning will have taken the Holy Spirit for their guide, not man. This is what Joseph was trying to accomplish through the school of prophets, but the Lord had already told Joseph what his work would entail. Then after Joseph had brought so much gospel, in such a plain and precious manor, the lord would wait a season, to try the people. To see if the people would take all the new evidence given them, through the BOM and revelation, and live as he has ask. Instead the restoration was hijacked and we have been trying to resurrect an old testament Church. With one like Moses at its helm.
Helaman 12:6
6 Behold, they do not desire that the Lord their God, who hath created them, should rule and reign over them; notwithstanding his great goodness and his mercy towards them, they do set at naught his counsels, and they will not that he should be their guide.
Doctrine and Covenants 45:57
57 For they that are wise and have received the truth, and have taken the Holy Spirit for their guide, and have not been deceived—verily I say unto you, they shall not be hewn down and cast into the fire, but shall abide the day.

[BrotherOfMahonri]

We have a prophet today who has been ordained like Noah. We hear a similar message that Noah was preaching - hearken to the ordained prophet, be baptized, repent, receive and be guided by the Holy Ghost.

Please provide sources as to President Thomas S Monson being "ordained like Noah." I believe this is in error.

President Monson is preaching a message similar to Noah?

By faith Noah Thomas S Monson, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark conference center to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

Please also provide sources as to Christ's gospel stating, "hearken to the ordained prophet".

I agree greatly with "guided by the Holy Ghost" as that is what Christ himself warns us to do in the last days or be deceived - however the other two points are in error in my view, would love to be taught. ;)

[JohnnyL]

Sarah,

You're right. Stick with the prophets, in faith and patience. Those who don't, will be a big reason for the half that no longer belongs to Christ's church.

[Sarah]

Sarah,

You're right. Stick with the prophets, in faith and patience. Those who don't, will be a big reason for the half that no longer belongs to Christ's church.

Thank you Johnny!

[Sarah]

We have a prophet today who has been ordained like Noah. We hear a similar message that Noah was preaching - hearken to the ordained prophet, be baptized, repent, receive and be guided by the Holy Ghost.

Please provide sources as to President Thomas S Monson being "ordained like Noah." I believe this is in error.

President Monson is preaching a message similar to Noah?

By faith Noah Thomas S Monson, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark conference center to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

Please also provide sources as to Christ's gospel stating, "hearken to the ordained prophet".

I agree greatly with "guided by the Holy Ghost" as that is what Christ himself warns us to do in the last days or be deceived - however the other two points are in error in my view, would love to be taught. ;)

I have a belief that the Priesthood authority and power resides within our Church, and all ordinations in the Priesthood are recorded in heaven and are valid in the Lord's eyes. We know where Joseph received his Priesthood, and Joseph and ordained others to offices in the Holy Priesthood. It seems like the argument here on this forum is that because of obvious offenses, like plural marriage, Brigham couldn't have retained any Priesthood power. It also seems like there is a wide range of different beliefs as to which prophet was the offender - Brigham, or Wilford Woodruf, or others - but I assume that is the stance. I just disagree and feel like this power and authority has remained on the earth.

You wanted examples of the Lord telling us to hearken to the prophet. There are multiple statements in the D&C where the Lord tells the people to hearken to their leaders in the Church, and warns them if they do not hearken. Multiple places in scriptures when the Lord tells the prophet to preach repentance and baptism etc. I expect the Lord wants the people to hearken to their words. Peter and the apostles were charged with ordaining men to the offices of the Priesthood. Paul and others exhort the saints to listen to their words and instruction. Lehi tells his sons to hearken to Nephi. I probably could think of more. My suggestion is to sincerely pray about our current leadership and if there is spiritual safety is following their words. I'm sure the Lord will answer you if you are sincere.

[Sarah]

We over use the phrase "follow the prophet". You should follow Christ! Are we the children of Israel and need to have a lesser law? I think so. I guess that's what Jacob 5 meant.

I do follow Christ, and Christ has told me to keep an eye on the prophet and follow the same commandments that our prophets our telling us to obey.

My point in the OP was that we are living in days like Noah's. Noah was preaching baptism and repentance, and he was building the ark. I'm sure the Lord wanted his children to "follow the prophet." For our day and age, that is an important message. Look at what our prophets issued with "The Family: A Proclaimation to the World." The Lord has a choice, he can make every soul an island and give everyone the same messages, or he can organize and delegate. I believe we have a God who delegates power and authority, and gives messages to his children, not only from his own mouth, but also from the mouth of his servants the prophets.

[Sarah]

Sarah; We the church of lds are under condemnation. We will remain under this condemnation until we repent and remember the NEW COVENANT and the teaching found in the Book of Mormon. To find the New Covenant we need to go back and find the New Wine that the Lord said could not be poured into old bottles. Saul was a hater of Christians. He became a rich man, for a man of his station, because he was so zealous at hunting down Christians, for the High Priests. After several years of hunting down Christians after the Death of Christ. Christ brought about a New Covenant through a new vessel, Paul. Circumcision was done away wthl under this New Covenant. Tithes was done away under this New Covenant. The pyramid religious structure, found in the old testament, was done away under the New covenant. A congregation of Saints, I will be your God, if you will be my people was the new religious structure brought forth through Paul's teachings. No man will have need to ask his neighbor, "know yea the Lord" for all who are left will know the Lord. Those who survive the day of burning will have taken the Holy Spirit for their guide, not man. This is what Joseph was trying to accomplish through the school of prophets, but the Lord had already told Joseph what his work would entail. Then after Joseph had brought so much gospel, in such a plain and precious manor, the lord would wait a season, to try the people. To see if the people would take all the new evidence given them, through the BOM and revelation, and live as he has ask. Instead the restoration was hijacked and we have been trying to resurrect an old testament Church. With one like Moses at its helm.
Helaman 12:6
6 Behold, they do not desire that the Lord their God, who hath created them, should rule and reign over them; notwithstanding his great goodness and his mercy towards them, they do set at naught his counsels, and they will not that he should be their guide.
Doctrine and Covenants 45:57
57 For they that are wise and have received the truth, and have taken the Holy Spirit for their guide, and have not been deceived—verily I say unto you, they shall not be hewn down and cast into the fire, but shall abide the day.

Your post confuses me. One one hand you acknowledge J.S. and the Church, but then you say that the spirit will be guiding everyone, giving the impression that we wouldn't need a Church.

One of the purposes of the Holy Ghost and the effects of having it in your life is to confirm truth when you hear it or read it. If you have the Holy Ghost as your guide, then he will confirm the words of prophets and apostles as being true. He has confirmed this to me.

What was the purpose of Christ setting up his Church? What is the purpose of even organizing a body of saints, and of calling apostles and men to other offices in the early Church, if everyone was only supposed to govern themselves by His spirit? Zion is a group of people. The gospel is about family. The Church is a structure that supports families, in leading them to Christ, and the Church prepares us to live in Zion. We need a Church, do we not?

[zionminded]

We over use the phrase "follow the prophet". You should follow Christ! Are we the children of Israel and need to have a lesser law? I think so. I guess that's what Jacob 5 meant.

I do follow Christ, and Christ has told me to keep an eye on the prophet and follow the same commandments that our prophets our telling us to obey.

My point in the OP was that we are living in days like Noah's. Noah was preaching baptism and repentance, and he was building the ark. I'm sure the Lord wanted his children to "follow the prophet." For our day and age, that is an important message. Look at what our prophets issued with "The Family: A Proclaimation to the World." The Lord has a choice, he can make every soul an island and give everyone the same messages, or he can organize and delegate. I believe we have a God who delegates power and authority, and gives messages to his children, not only from his own mouth, but also from the mouth of his servants the prophets.

Actually God wanted them to follow Jehovah. But when they were unable to do that, they were given a prophet instead, who could bridge them to Jehovah. Isaiah 21:6–10 (God appoints a Watchman who will be an intermediary)

I do agree we live in a time much like Noah. The prophet of the Church is telling us to repent. This is good council. It goes hand in hand with the Book of Mormon that warns the modern day church.

[Jesef]

zionminded, just curious where you stand on Denver Snuffer?

[TZONE]

We have a prophet today who has been ordained like Noah. We hear a similar message that Noah was preaching - hearken to the ordained prophet, be baptized, repent, receive and be guided by the Holy Ghost.

Please provide sources as to President Thomas S Monson being "ordained like Noah." I believe this is in error.

President Monson is preaching a message similar to Noah?

By faith Noah Thomas S Monson, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark conference center to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

Please also provide sources as to Christ's gospel stating, "hearken to the ordained prophet".

I agree greatly with "guided by the Holy Ghost" as that is what Christ himself warns us to do in the last days or be deceived - however the other two points are in error in my view, would love to be taught. ;)

Here you go, (not a current on but past ones)...

Brigham young 11th year as president,

"that perhaps I then may hold communion with the Lord, as did Moses. I am not now in that position...If I am faithful… perhaps the Lord will appear to me and personally dictate me in the management of his Church and people." (JOD 7:243, BY, September 1, 1859)”.

Seventeen Years as president he stated

“We have not seen the person of the Father, neither have we seen that of the Son;" (JOD 11:42. BY, January 8, 1865)

President Grant went further stating “I never prayed to see the Savior.”...

[lemuel]

41 But as it was in the days of Noah, so it shall be also at the coming of the Son of Man;

42 For it shall be with them, as it was in the days which were before the flood; for until the day that Noah entered into the ark they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage;

43 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.

Why make mention of "eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage?" People always eat, drink, and get married. Why not also add sleep, and go to their jobs?

Maybe "eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage" refers to ordinances? And people were going about their business, thinking they were saved because they were had the ordinances?

[lemuel]

BroOMahonri,

2 references to how Noah was ordained:

1. D&C 107: 52: "Noah was ten years old when he was ordained under the hand of Methuselah."

2. Moses 8:19 And the Lord ordained Noah after his own order

And this bit from Joseph:

"All the prophets had the Melchizedek Priesthood and were ordained by God himself" (TPJS, pp. 180-81).

[Sarah]

41 But as it was in the days of Noah, so it shall be also at the coming of the Son of Man;

42 For it shall be with them, as it was in the days which were before the flood; for until the day that Noah entered into the ark they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage;

43 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.

Why make mention of "eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage?" People always eat, drink, and get married. Why not also add sleep, and go to their jobs?

Maybe "eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage" refers to ordinances? And people were going about their business, thinking they were saved because they were had the ordinances?

That's funny because I was actually thinking about that same question, why those three things were mentioned, and I wonder if it has to do with famine and the ordinance of marriage being stopped at the time "Noah enters the ark" in our day. These things were occurring until Noah entered the ark in his day, but so were sleeping and laboring. This prophecy might be more for our day. In our day, when eating, drinking, (famine) and marrying stop (temples might have to close, either do to politics surrounding gay marriage or because of unrest), then that is the sign of Noah entering the ark. People will still sleep and labor and do other things during a famine for example.

[zionminded]

zionminded, just curious where you stand on Denver Snuffer?

I think he's got some really good points. I also think his pride got in the way, and it's not constructive. I wouldn't follow him, but I did enjoy reading some of his material. I enjoyed his earlier books first, hist latest stuff can go negative a bit too much for me, as if it is vengeful against his excommunication.

[deep water]

Life will be so difficult in those days, that being pregnant or having a young child, will be a death sentence to the Mother and father. Life will be so hard that the people who do make it through will remember for almost a thousand years, unlike Israel who realistically retained the memory for a few generations. Those who are led by the spirit, will know of the difficult times coming and will wait to marry and have children, so they will not have to go through the pain of loosing them, and there own life.

Joseph Smith—Matthew 1:16
16 And wo unto them that are with child, and unto them that give suck in those days;

Nahum 3:10
10 Yet was she carried away, she went into captivity: her young children also were dashed in pieces at the top of all the streets: and they cast lots for her honourable men, and all her great men were bound in chains.

2 Nephi 23:15-18
15 Every one that is proud shall be thrust through; yea, and every one that is joined to the wicked shall fall by the sword.

16 Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled and their wives ravished.

17 Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver and gold, nor shall they delight in it.

18 Their bows shall also dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eyes shall not spare children.

Isa 3:12-26
12 ¶As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.

13 The Lord standeth up to plead, and standeth to judge the people.

14 The Lord will enter into judgment with the ancients of his people, and the princes thereof: for ye have eaten up the vineyard; the spoil of the poor is in your houses.

15 What mean ye that ye beat my people to pieces, and grind the faces of the poor? saith the Lord God of hosts.

16 ¶Moreover the Lord saith, Because the daughters of Zion are haughty, and walk with stretched forth necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet:

17 Therefore the Lord will smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion, and the Lord will discover their secret parts.

18 In that day the Lord will take away the bravery of their tinkling ornaments about their feet, and their cauls, and their round tires like the moon,

19 The chains, and the bracelets, and the mufflers,

20 The bonnets, and the ornaments of the legs, and the headbands, and the tablets, and the earrings,

21 The rings, and nose jewels,

22 The changeable suits of apparel, and the mantles, and the wimples, and the crisping pins,

23 The glasses, and the fine linen, and the hoods, and the veils.

24 And it shall come to pass, that instead of sweet smell there shall be stink; and instead of a girdle a rent; and instead of well set hair baldness; and instead of a stomacher a girding of sackcloth; and burning instead of beauty.

25 Thy men shall fall by the sword, and thy mighty in the war.

26 And her gates shall lament and mourn; and she being desolate shall sit upon the ground.
.

[BeNotDeceived]

We have a prophet today who has been ordained like Noah. We hear a similar message that Noah was preaching - hearken to the ordained prophet, be baptized, repent, receive and be guided by the Holy Ghost.

Please provide sources as to President Thomas S Monson being "ordained like Noah." I believe this is in error.

President Monson is preaching a message similar to Noah?

By faith Noah Thomas S Monson, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark conference center to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

Please also provide sources as to Christ's gospel stating, "hearken to the ordained prophet".

I agree greatly with "guided by the Holy Ghost" as that is what Christ himself warns us to do in the last days or be deceived - however the other two points are in error in my view, would love to be taught.

A total solar eclipse occurred on his last birthday that may have memorialized the advent of seven years prosperity. Finialy a few more ark related posts are on the advent of appearing.

Where actually are the safest places when seas heave beyond their shore
Likely caused by great earthquakes to include once solid ground of high elevation..

High Tsunami , but not Quaky Trees. gbng

[SPIRIT]

Sarah; We the church of lds are under condemnation. We will remain under this condemnation until we repent and remember the NEW COVENANT and the teaching found in the Book of Mormon. To find the New Covenant we need to go back and find the New Wine that the Lord said could not be poured into old bottles. Saul was a hater of Christians. He became a rich man, for a man of his station, because he was so zealous at hunting down Christians, for the High Priests. After several years of hunting down Christians after the Death of Christ. Christ brought about a New Covenant through a new vessel, Paul. Circumcision was done away wthl under this New Covenant. Tithes was done away under this New Covenant. The pyramid religious structure, found in the old testament, was done away under the New covenant. A congregation of Saints, I will be your God, if you will be my people was the new religious structure brought forth through Paul's teachings. No man will have need to ask his neighbor, "know yea the Lord" for all who are left will know the Lord. Those who survive the day of burning will have taken the Holy Spirit for their guide, not man. This is what Joseph was trying to accomplish through the school of prophets, but the Lord had already told Joseph what his work would entail. Then after Joseph had brought so much gospel, in such a plain and precious manor, the lord would wait a season, to try the people. To see if the people would take all the new evidence given them, through the BOM and revelation, and live as he has ask. Instead the restoration was hijacked and we have been trying to resurrect an old testament Church. With one like Moses at its helm.
Helaman 12:6
6 Behold, they do not desire that the Lord their God, who hath created them, should rule and reign over them; notwithstanding his great goodness and his mercy towards them, they do set at naught his counsels, and they will not that he should be their guide.
Doctrine and Covenants 45:57
57 For they that are wise and have received the truth, and have taken the Holy Spirit for their guide, and have not been deceived—verily I say unto you, they shall not be hewn down and cast into the fire, but shall abide the day.

Your post confuses me. One one hand you acknowledge J.S. and the Church, but then you say that the spirit will be guiding everyone, giving the impression that we wouldn't need a Church.

One of the purposes of the Holy Ghost and the effects of having it in your life is to confirm truth when you hear it or read it. If you have the Holy Ghost as your guide, then he will confirm the words of prophets and apostles as being true. He has confirmed this to me.

What was the purpose of Christ setting up his Church? What is the purpose of even organizing a body of saints, and of calling apostles and men to other offices in the early Church, if everyone was only supposed to govern themselves by His spirit? Zion is a group of people. The gospel is about family. The Church is a structure that supports families, in leading them to Christ, and the Church prepares us to live in Zion. We need a Church, do we not?

do you really think that we receive latter-day revelation ? no, we do not.
If so, WHERE are all the revelations ? because we sure could use some in these troubling times,
these very last days we are living in.
These so-called revelations that the church has had have not really been revelations at all, but decisions made by church leaders.
No, the lord was through with us long ago, letting us go our own way,
and has left us to deal with the consequences of our own decisions, (not revelations)
and the judgments that are now to come down on the church.

Why haven't we received the sealed portion ?
because the Lord said he would try our faith first.
So how are we doing ?
by the looks of it, not so good, because we have not received it.
And because it's been withheld from us, I fear that verse 10 now applies to us.
10 And if it so be that they will not believe these things, then shall the greater things be withheld from them, unto their condemnation.

3 Nephi 26:
8 And these things have I written, which are a lesser part of the things which he taught the people; and I have written them to the intent that they may be brought again unto this people, from the Gentiles, according to the words which Jesus hath spoken.

9 And when they shall have received this, which is expedient that they should have first, to try their faith, and if it shall so be that they shall believe these things then shall the greater things be made manifest unto them.

10 And if it so be that they will not believe these things, then shall the greater things be withheld from them, unto their condemnation.

11 Behold, I was about to write them, all which were engraven upon the plates of Nephi, but the Lord forbade it, saying: I will try the faith of my people.

Ether 4
6 For the Lord said unto me: They shall not go forth unto the Gentiles until the day that they shall repent of their iniquity, and become clean before the Lord.

13 Come unto me, O ye Gentiles, and I will show unto you the
greater things, the knowledge which is hid up because of unbelief.

Isaiah 5

13 Therefore are my people exiled without knowing why;their best men die of famine,their masses perish with thirst.

Without divine revelation—without direct knowledge communicated from Israel’s God—his people remain vulnerable to the tide of world events that determines their fate.
Instead, they could have determined their own fate (Isaiah 8:13-15; 28:7-13). The word “knowledge” (da‘at)—a covenant term—further signifies that his people no longer know their God. They may know about him; but they don’t know him in the way that he manifests himself personally to his elect (Isaiah 19:21; 52:6). If they did, they would not now perish nor be taken captive by their enemies (Isaiah 10:3-4; 14:16-17).

Isaiah 29

9 Procrastinate, and become bewildered;
preoccupy yourselves, until you cry for help.
Be drunk, but not with wine;
stagger, but not from strong drink.
10 Jehovah has poured out on you
a spirit of deep sleep:
he has shut your eyes, the prophets;
he has covered your heads, the seers.

Jehovah’s people who are here addressed are chronically delusional to the point of slumbering in a deep sleep. Having procrastinated the day of their salvation by buying into dreamlike deceptions and fantasies, they grow “bewildered” and “cry for help” when Jehovah’s judgments come upon them. As a people’s leaders generally reflect the people themselves, so all are spiritually “drunk” and “stagger” instead of walking straight. The prophets and seers—the people’s “eyes” and “heads”—can’t awaken them to spiritual realities because they themselves are intoxicated and asleep (Isaiah 28:7; 56:9-12).

13 But my Lord says, Because these people
approach me with the mouth
and pay me homage with their lips,
while their heart remains far from me—
their piety toward me consisting of
commandments of men learned by rote—
14 therefore it is that I shall again astound these people
with wonder upon wonder,
rendering void the knowledge of their sages
and the intelligence of their wise men insignificant.

The expression “these people”—which repudiates the covenant formula “my people”—reflects Jehovah’s people’s alienated state. Although they are religious, praying and giving lip service to Jehovah, their piety is superficial. Grounded in human teachings or precepts of men, their religion separates them from him instead bringing them into his presence. When Jehovah intervenes among them at the onset of his Day of Judgment, what their “sages” and “wise men” knew or thought they knew—what their scholars and professors had taught them—Jehovah wonderfully overturns (Isaiah 44:25; 52:15).

[Durzan]

Sarah; We the church of lds are under condemnation. We will remain under this condemnation until we repent and remember the NEW COVENANT and the teaching found in the Book of Mormon. To find the New Covenant we need to go back and find the New Wine that the Lord said could not be poured into old bottles. Saul was a hater of Christians. He became a rich man, for a man of his station, because he was so zealous at hunting down Christians, for the High Priests. After several years of hunting down Christians after the Death of Christ. Christ brought about a New Covenant through a new vessel, Paul. Circumcision was done away wthl under this New Covenant. Tithes was done away under this New Covenant. The pyramid religious structure, found in the old testament, was done away under the New covenant. A congregation of Saints, I will be your God, if you will be my people was the new religious structure brought forth through Paul's teachings. No man will have need to ask his neighbor, "know yea the Lord" for all who are left will know the Lord. Those who survive the day of burning will have taken the Holy Spirit for their guide, not man. This is what Joseph was trying to accomplish through the school of prophets, but the Lord had already told Joseph what his work would entail. Then after Joseph had brought so much gospel, in such a plain and precious manor, the lord would wait a season, to try the people. To see if the people would take all the new evidence given them, through the BOM and revelation, and live as he has ask. Instead the restoration was hijacked and we have been trying to resurrect an old testament Church. With one like Moses at its helm.
Helaman 12:6
6 Behold, they do not desire that the Lord their God, who hath created them, should rule and reign over them; notwithstanding his great goodness and his mercy towards them, they do set at naught his counsels, and they will not that he should be their guide.
Doctrine and Covenants 45:57
57 For they that are wise and have received the truth, and have taken the Holy Spirit for their guide, and have not been deceived—verily I say unto you, they shall not be hewn down and cast into the fire, but shall abide the day.

Your post confuses me. One one hand you acknowledge J.S. and the Church, but then you say that the spirit will be guiding everyone, giving the impression that we wouldn't need a Church.

One of the purposes of the Holy Ghost and the effects of having it in your life is to confirm truth when you hear it or read it. If you have the Holy Ghost as your guide, then he will confirm the words of prophets and apostles as being true. He has confirmed this to me.

What was the purpose of Christ setting up his Church? What is the purpose of even organizing a body of saints, and of calling apostles and men to other offices in the early Church, if everyone was only supposed to govern themselves by His spirit? Zion is a group of people. The gospel is about family. The Church is a structure that supports families, in leading them to Christ, and the Church prepares us to live in Zion. We need a Church, do we not?

do you really think that we receive latter-day revelation ? no, we do not.
If so, WHERE are all the revelations ? because we sure could use some in these troubling times,
these very last days we are living in.
These so-called revelations that the church has had have not really been revelations at all, but decisions made by church leaders.
No, the lord was through with us long ago, letting us go our own way,
and has left us to deal with the consequences of our own decisions, (not revelations)
and the judgments that are now to come down on the church.

Why haven't we received the sealed portion ?
because the Lord said he would try our faith first.
So how are we doing ?
by the looks of it, not so good, because we have not received it.
And because it's been withheld from us, I fear that verse 10 now applies to us.
10 And if it so be that they will not believe these things, then shall the greater things be withheld from them, unto their condemnation.

3 Nephi 26:
8 And these things have I written, which are a lesser part of the things which he taught the people; and I have written them to the intent that they may be brought again unto this people, from the Gentiles, according to the words which Jesus hath spoken.

9 And when they shall have received this, which is expedient that they should have first, to try their faith, and if it shall so be that they shall believe these things then shall the greater things be made manifest unto them.

10 And if it so be that they will not believe these things, then shall the greater things be withheld from them, unto their condemnation.

11 Behold, I was about to write them, all which were engraven upon the plates of Nephi, but the Lord forbade it, saying: I will try the faith of my people.

Isaiah 5

13 Therefore are my people exiled without knowing why;their best men die of famine,their masses perish with thirst.

Without divine revelation—without direct knowledge communicated from Israel’s God—his people remain vulnerable to the tide of world events that determines their fate.
Instead, they could have determined their own fate (Isaiah 8:13-15; 28:7-13). The word “knowledge” (da‘at)—a covenant term—further signifies that his people no longer know their God. They may know about him; but they don’t know him in the way that he manifests himself personally to his elect (Isaiah 19:21; 52:6). If they did, they would not now perish nor be taken captive by their enemies (Isaiah 10:3-4; 14:16-17).

Isaiah 29

9 Procrastinate, and become bewildered;
preoccupy yourselves, until you cry for help.
Be drunk, but not with wine;
stagger, but not from strong drink.
10 Jehovah has poured out on you
a spirit of deep sleep:
he has shut your eyes, the prophets;
he has covered your heads, the seers.

Jehovah’s people who are here addressed are chronically delusional to the point of slumbering in a deep sleep. Having procrastinated the day of their salvation by buying into dreamlike deceptions and fantasies, they grow “bewildered” and “cry for help” when Jehovah’s judgments come upon them. As a people’s leaders generally reflect the people themselves, so all are spiritually “drunk” and “stagger” instead of walking straight. The prophets and seers—the people’s “eyes” and “heads”—can’t awaken them to spiritual realities because they themselves are intoxicated and asleep (Isaiah 28:7; 56:9-12).

13 But my Lord says, Because these people
approach me with the mouth
and pay me homage with their lips,
while their heart remains far from me—
their piety toward me consisting of
commandments of men learned by rote—
14 therefore it is that I shall again astound these people
with wonder upon wonder,
rendering void the knowledge of their sages
and the intelligence of their wise men insignificant.

The expression “these people”—which repudiates the covenant formula “my people”—reflects Jehovah’s people’s alienated state. Although they are religious, praying and giving lip service to Jehovah, their piety is superficial. Grounded in human teachings or precepts of men, their religion separates them from him instead bringing them into his presence. When Jehovah intervenes among them at the onset of his Day of Judgment, what their “sages” and “wise men” knew or thought they knew—what their scholars and professors had taught them—Jehovah wonderfully overturns (Isaiah 44:25; 52:15).

D&C 136:42 says "Be adiligent in keeping all my commandments, lest judgments come upon you, and your faith fail you, and your enemies triumph over you. So no more at present. Amen and Amen."

[abijah`]

genesis 6

When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them,
the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose.
Then the LORD said, “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.”
The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.

[MMbelieve]

Sometime early last week I was thinking about various threads on this forum and suddenly I had this scripture come to mind:
41 But as it was in the days of Noah, so it shall be also at the coming of the Son of Man;

This verse just remained stuck in my head for a few days, and I was unsure why, because I wasn't thinking particulary about the last days.
As I thought about how it might apply to what I had encountered on this forum, it dawned on me that Noah was one of the Lord's ordained prophets, as is described in the Book of Moses. Despite the mulititudes on the earth currently that don't believe we have a modern prophet today, in reality our days are like Noah's. We have a prophet too. There was a prophet at the time of the flood, and this time is what the Lord says it will be like right before His coming.

This is what Noah taught: "Hearken, and give heed unto my words; Believe and repent of your sins and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, even as our fathers, and ye shall receive the Holy Ghost, that ye may have all things made manifest; and if ye do not this, the floods will come in upon you."

We have a prophet today who has been ordained like Noah. We hear a similar message that Noah was preaching - hearken to the ordained prophet, be baptized, repent, receive and be guided by the Holy Ghost.

When I turned to the full account in Matthew 24, a few particluar phrases stood out to me that had not previously:

39 So likewise, mine elect, when they shall see all these things, they shall know that he is near, even at the doors;

40 But of that day, and hour, no one knoweth; no, not the angels of God in heaven, but my Father only.

41 But as it was in the days of Noah, so it shall be also at the coming of the Son of Man;

42 For it shall be with them (I think this is referring to "mine elect"), as it was in the days which were before the flood; for until the day that Noah entered into the ark they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage;

43 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be.

44 Then shall be fulfilled that which is written, that in the last days, two shall be in the field, the one shall be taken, and the other left;

I thought it was interesting that those who are aware of the signs - and perhaps the Lord is just lumping everyone on the earth together in this statement - were going about their business, not until the flood, but until Noah entered the ark. Will there be an event similar in our day to Noah entering the ark? The next verse simply says "they knew not" until the flood came. I take this to mean that they did not know their fate until it was right upon them. What I believe we can take from this is that just as in the days of Noah, there will be safety in following the prophet.

If you want to know how to prepare for what is coming, just study the words of President Eyring, espeically the last 10 years. Here are a few wonderful talks of his, which are just a drop in the bucket of important things he has taught as part of his mission here on earth.

Be Ready
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... y?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Continuing Revelation
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... n?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Faith and Keys
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... s?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Finding Safety in Counsel
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... l?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Mountains to Climb
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... b?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Voice of warning
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... g?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It is my testimony that whatever comes our way as we approach the Lord's coming, there will be safety in following the prophet. One of the things prophets have told us to do is to store food:

President Ezra Taft Benson said, “The revelation to produce and store food may be as essential to our temporal welfare today as boarding the ark was to the people in the days of Noah” (in Conference Report, Oct. 1987, 61; or Ensign, Nov. 1987, 49).

President Spencer W. Kimball explained that when Noah built the ark, “there was no evidence of rain and flood. … His warnings were considered irrational. … How foolish to build an ark on dry ground with the sun shining and life moving forward as usual! But time ran out. The ark was finished. The floods came. The disobedient and rebellious were drowned. The miracle of the ark followed the faith manifested in its building” (Faith Precedes the Miracle [1972], 5–6).

I was reading about this just the other day. Noah was warning the people until he and his family and the animals entered the ark. They entered the ark 7 days before the flood began. This is the part that struck me. Noah and those being saved were asked to enter the ark (the safe place) 7 days before anything happened - Noah May have been unaware he had to wait 7 days. This to me is the eating and marrying part, the people not being saved from the flood were unaware and disbelieving so they went about their regular lives. However, Noah’s group had ended early and entered the ark and God shut the door. The separation happened before the flood.

Those who are watching are preparing while the rest are going about business as usual. So how are the ones who are heeding the call going to be removed from the rest before it happens? Is it just in our hearts? Symbolically? Or in some other way? However it happens the judgement takes place before that great day comes.

[MMbelieve]

We over use the phrase "follow the prophet". You should follow Christ! Are we the children of Israel and need to have a lesser law? I think so. I guess that's what Jacob 5 meant.

Order in all things.

Just like people thinking the headship of man is void because women don’t obey their husband. Why obey a husband...obey God!

Men say...why obey the leaders or the prophet? Obey God.

We all need to learn to submit to something in this life. If we refuse the prophet we walk on shaky ground.