Pre Adamites

[sandman45]

Sounds like they came from the "HOLLOW EARTH!!!!!!!!!"

a theory which I believe may be true or hold many truths in it

[BurningSword]

Before Adam came into the telestial earth, the telestial earth had a long history of life. It has many stories to tell, some of which we have glimpses of through fossil records.


Adam was indeed a real person, all scripture and modern revelation supports that, without leaving any doubt. We are descendant from him.

As to the pre-adamite humanesque life forms, there is limited known evidence of anything very close to modern homo sapiens. Many ape like animals. The evidence of evolution from monkeys to modern homo sapiens really is not very strong IMO.

What you call dinosaurs came from underworld dimensions through rifts which opened during the time before the Flood of Noah because of the evils and sorcery of that time. This is why mankind now is finding contradicting evidence to theory of them being millions of years old as now even some scientists believe they are only a few thousand years old, this is correct for this dimension. The mystery of Dinosaurs/Dragons will be revealed to mankind during the reign of the Antichrist for again the rifts will open in those days of Tribulation.

Oh really?

And what credible literature supports that dinosaurs came through rifts from an underworld dimension? And by sorcery no less.

That's preposterous.

Not all things have been revealed to mankind concerning the earth and it dimensions, nor the understanding of the underworlds. Sorcery is mentioned in the bible and indeed the wickedness of the time of Noah aloud such rifts to form and the wickedness of this generation will again open the pit, and it shall open layer by layer as with a onion till it meets the core. Dinosaurs are not the only thing which resides in underworlds, greater more terrifying things will come forth when revelation 9 is fulfilled, the ending will not be expected by many nor is it truly understood why it is said to be the greatest time of suffering earth has faced.

[marktheshark]

Not all things have been revealed to mankind concerning the earth and it dimensions, nor the understanding of the underworlds. Sorcery is mentioned in the bible and indeed the wickedness of the time of Noah aloud such rifts to form and the wickedness of this generation will again open the pit, and it shall open layer by layer as with a onion till it meets the core. Dinosaurs are not the only thing which resides in underworlds, greater more terrifying things will come forth when revelation 9 is fulfilled, the ending will not be expected by many nor is it truly understood why it is said to be the greatest time of suffering earth has faced.

"Not all things have been revealed to mankind"

Yet you speak as an authority on the subject, so how do you know?

Did you have a dream where sorcerers were casting evil spells and dinosaurs came flying out of a different dimension to this world?

Seriously, can you not know how ridiculous this sounds?

[BurningSword]

Not all things have been revealed to mankind concerning the earth and it dimensions, nor the understanding of the underworlds. Sorcery is mentioned in the bible and indeed the wickedness of the time of Noah aloud such rifts to form and the wickedness of this generation will again open the pit, and it shall open layer by layer as with a onion till it meets the core. Dinosaurs are not the only thing which resides in underworlds, greater more terrifying things will come forth when revelation 9 is fulfilled, the ending will not be expected by many nor is it truly understood why it is said to be the greatest time of suffering earth has faced.

"Not all things have been revealed to mankind"

Yet you speak as an authority on the subject, so how do you know?

Did you have a dream where sorcerers were casting evil spells and dinosaurs came flying out of a different dimension to this world?

Seriously, can you not know how ridiculous this sounds?

It was the sins of that generation that aloud such to occur and it was through the power of Satan that it came, just as the bottomless pit will be opened by the Son of perdition in your generation and you will be upon the earth and it dimensions during that time also and will witness things you thought impossible that you thought ridiculous. It is even said in the last days sorcery would make a return and indeed it has even if people don't realise it has it will become clearer in time of woes for many will do things thought impossible. Did you know that their was sorcerers in time of Moses whom could even do things he could only his power was greater they could not do the greater miracles Moses did but could do lesser things such as turning staffs to snakes, Egyptians worshipped the underworld gods and that gave them power to do the things they did.

My knowledge comes from above, yours is from below that is why I speak with one with authority on matters such as this, even so the future is not a mystery to me but known even so it order of events. The earth is many dimensions layered upon one another and connected, it spiritual dimensions and physical are currently separated but influencing one another and the underworld dimensions are part mortal and spirit, so it is that what people call UFOs or alien sighting are such things temporarily occupying this dimension.

In the great tribulation that will soon come, the spiritual dimensions and physical are again united and so it becomes much easier for sorcery to be manifest and much more including unknown creatures mankind has never considered possible, the Son of Perdition the Antichrist Son of Moloch himself shall perform feats that those upon earth will call him God. You think the Fallen angels sit in a empty void world? they took with them knowledge from Heaven and used it to create their own kingdoms and empires, science mankind has is actually Lucifer knowledge he gave them to prepare a infrastructure that made it much easier to influence them in end times, this is why science has been used for so many evils.

Joseph Smith was shown some of this but also limited and told not to reveal to the children of men, for many would scoff and fall away in knowing the real situation of man. The church is their as a template to a greater coming teaching of the Millennial, it is to prepare people in righteousness by giving them the basic understandings of the knowledge of good, but it is not right to believe it is the full understanding of everything for as such even so much of manuscript was forbidden to be contained in it. If you seek to have higher understanding given by the Spirit of truth, then empty your cup that it may be filled in clean water, and prepare your lamp to receive oil.

[gdemetz80815]

He is called the everlasting Father because He will be our Father forever. The Book of Abraham teaches clearly that we were all intelligences in the beginning, so in that sense also we are all eternal. Heavenly Father goes on to explain that He is in the position that He is in (being our Heavenly Father) because He is more intelligent. Also, the prophet Joseph taught that our Heavenly Father was once a man like us who also had a Heavenly Father, and He went on to explain that ALL things come in this way! I wonder how many people here really study the scriptures before coming up with some of this.......

[gdemetz80815]

Sandman, that was in no endowment that I have ever received. Also, the scriptures from Daniel which you quoted in talking about Adam who now has received his exaltation, just as Abraham has, and then he turns over his stewardship to Christ who rules over him with an everlasting dominion!

[jwharton]

He is called the everlasting Father because He will be our Father forever. The Book of Abraham teaches clearly that we were all intelligences in the beginning, so in that sense also we are all eternal. Heavenly Father goes on to explain that He is in the position that He is in (being our Heavenly Father) because He is more intelligent. Also, the prophet Joseph taught that our Heavenly Father was once a man like us who also had a Heavenly Father, and He went on to explain that ALL things come in this way! I wonder how many people here really study the scriptures before coming up with some of this.......

Please clarify.

Are you saying the Heavenly Father of the next cycle of creation will be the Savior of this cycle of creation?

Also, are you aware that Brigham Young taught that Michael is the Father of our spirits?

Is this an example of what appears to you as a point upon which Brigham Young contradicts himself?

If so, there isn't actually any contradiction when you understand the attributes and nature of the Godhead and how one cycle of creation ends while another begins.

[sandman45]

He is called the everlasting Father because He will be our Father forever. The Book of Abraham teaches clearly that we were all intelligences in the beginning, so in that sense also we are all eternal. Heavenly Father goes on to explain that He is in the position that He is in (being our Heavenly Father) because He is more intelligent. Also, the prophet Joseph taught that our Heavenly Father was once a man like us who also had a Heavenly Father, and He went on to explain that ALL things come in this way! I wonder how many people here really study the scriptures before coming up with some of this.......

you are talking about this quote?

If Abraham reasoned thus–If Jesus Christ was the Son of God, and John discovered that God the Father of Jesus Christ had a Father, you may suppose that He had a father also. Where was there ever a son without a father? And where was there ever a father without first being a son? Whenever did a tree or anything spring into existence without a progenitor? And everything comes in this way. (TPJS, p. 373)

Joseph Taught who the great grand progenitor was..

“Adam … was the first man, who is spoken of in Daniel as being the ‘Ancient of Days’ [Daniel 7:9], or in other words, the first and oldest of all, the great, grand progenitor of whom it is said in another place he is Michael, because he was the first and father of all, not only by progeny, but the first to hold the spiritual blessings, to whom was made known the plan of ordinances for the salvation of his posterity unto the end, and to whom Christ was first revealed, and through whom Christ has been revealed from heaven, and will continue to be revealed from henceforth.
-teachings of Joseph Smith chapter 8

[sandman45]

Sandman, that was in no endowment that I have ever received. Also, the scriptures from Daniel which you quoted in talking about Adam who now has received his exaltation, just as Abraham has, and then he turns over his stewardship to Christ who rules over him with an everlasting dominion!

you dont remember where Elohim sets Michael/Adam as Lord?

ELOHIM: Adam, we have created for you this earth, and have placed upon it all kinds of vegetation and animal life. We have commanded all these to multiply in their own sphere and element. We give you dominion over all these things and make you, Adam, lord over the whole earth and all things on the face thereof. We now command you to multiply and replenish the earth, that you may have joy and rejoicing in your posterity.

Adam = Lord over the whole earth.
he is also given dominion.. he had dominion before christ.. Christ is given dominion and glory from Father Adam.

Daniel 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

[gdemetz80815]

Business as usual, nothing you have stated proves your point! Yes, Adam is the "ancient of days" and the father of all, but you, once again, twist the meaning and wrest the scriptures! That simply means that he is the father of mankind on earth! Also, who was given this kingdom (Daniel 7:14)?!? It was Christ!! You guys twist the scriptures to fit your beliefs and ignore all the ones that show you are wrong, such as the one(s) that state their is no death after the resurrection! There is no scripture (unless you twist one) that supports the Adam God theory! I have given you many that contradict that, which you ignore, BUT THERE IS NO SCRIPTURE, NOT ONE, THAT SUPPORT THIS RIDICULOUS THEORY!!!!

[slimjamm]

Business as usual, nothing you have stated proves your point! Yes, Adam is the "ancient of days" and the father of all, but you, once again, twist the meaning and wrest the scriptures! That simply means that he is the father of mankind on earth! Also, who was given this kingdom (Daniel 7:14)?!? It was Christ!! You guys twist the scriptures to fit your beliefs and ignore all the ones that show you are wrong, such as the one(s) that state their is no death after the resurrection! There is no scripture (unless you twist one) that supports the Adam God theory! I have given you many that contradict that, which you ignore, BUT THERE IS NO SCRIPTURE, NOT ONE, THAT SUPPORT THIS RIDICULOUS THEORY!!!!

Did you even read the scripture above, or just choose to ignore it? You state Michael, is the Ancient of Days, and then read, "..one like the Son of man (Christ)came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days" followed by, "And there was given him (Christ) dominion, and glory, and a kingdom.."

Why would the Ancient of Days be the one giving Christ, dominion, and glory, and kingdoms, if He were not His Father?!? Do you not see the pattern laid out before you? It is taught Michael received His dominion, and glory, and kingdoms from His father; and in turn we read, He will follow that same pattern in giving all He received to His righteous posterity. I.e. Christ, us, His children. And we shall follow this pattern and do the same. One eternal round.

[Moenkopi]

Why would the Ancient of Days be the one giving Christ, dominion, and glory, and kingdoms, if He were not His Father?!? Do you not see the pattern laid out before you? It is taught Michael received His dominion, and glory, and kingdoms from His father; and in turn we read, He will follow that same pattern in giving all He received to His righteous posterity. I.e. Christ, us, His children. And we shall follow this pattern and do the same. One eternal round.

Pretty simple explanation: It is discussing Adam-ondi_Ahman when all the keys are returned to Adam (The Ancient of Days) who then turns the kingdom over to Christ. It wouldn't make sense for the Father to give Christ the kingdom since the scriptures always state that Christ said "and the glory be thine". The glory given is the glory of intelligence which is increased through the up-bringing of righteous souls. It seems that prophets also taught this. You never give kingdoms down, you always report up. It wouldn't make sense for all of the prophets to give their keys to Adam and then have them given to Christ if Christ was lower than Adam.


After Adam had received an accounting, Christ will come "as he did to the first grand council in the valley of Adam-ondi-Ahman" Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr., The Way to Perfection, pp. 289-290. and Adam will "deliver[] up his stewardship to Christ, that which was delivered to him as holding the keys of the universe, but retains his standing as head of the human family." Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr., The Way to Perfection, p. 289 (citing The Documentary History of the Church, Vol. 3, pp. 386-7). Christ will "receive[] the keys from Adam." Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr., The Way to Perfection, pp. 289-290. "Christ will be received and acknowledged as the rightful ruler of the earth As stated by Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr., "the kingdom will be turned over to Christ; and he will be sustained in his calling as King of Kings and Lord of Lords." Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr., Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, p. 106 (referencing Daniel 7:9-14; D&C 116; Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 157). and be "given to him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed." Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr., The Way to Perfection, pp. 289-290 (quoting Daniel 7:13-14).) Christ will give directions to the Priesthood. Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr., The Way to Perfection, pp. 290-291.


Father has many worlds that were made by Christ. They place one man to govern a world who is called Adam. Adam oversees the work of the dispensations and the extension of the keys to prophets. Prophets then extend those keys to local leaders.

Father -> Christ -> Adam -> Prophets (dispensations) -> Local leaders

In reporting it goes the other way around until the kingdom is presented before the father. "Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power." 1 Cor. 15:24

The Adam God theory as generally understood is false. Michael (Adam) is not the Father of Jehovah (Christ), neither body or spirit. But it is Elohim that is the literal father of Christ both of body and spirit. It may have been understood by Brigham Young that Elohim's name is Adam as well. It may be that He names the first man of every world after himself. That doesn't seem far off to me. Michal is then Adam Jr. and Elohim is Adam Sr. Taking this stance fixes 90% of Brigham Young's quotes and the other 10% are most likely due to incorrect recording or a misunderstanding of the person recording the talk.

Look to the temple though, it is pretty obvious there and Brigham Young would have changed it according to his belief if he didn't believe it was right since he oversaw the presentation and offering of the endowment after Joseph Smith.

@jwharton - just because you find symbolism in the story of Adam and the creation does not mean it didn't literally happen as well. I understand that you are probably trying to only accept this view since it makes the Adam-God theory as believed by many make more sense. While I believe that the creation and the story of Adam does have symbolism that can be applied to different topics (Ancient Israel, the life of the Savior, the Latter Day Church) does not mean that you can throw away ever other interpretation, especially the literal one. Joseph saw God the Father, Jesus Christ and Adam and described them all differently. They are beings of glory, they do exist and the creation story did happen.

As far as the original topic of pre-adamic men. I agree that the prophets have always taught that Adam came from Elohim and not from evolution. The genetics also support that since there is a distinct gap between our genetics and that of these pre-adamites. I believe they are tied into the rest of the animal kingdom and not to man. Where did they come from along with all of the dinosaurs? No clue. I have a theory that the earth was made much like a temple where people hammered nails, used power tools, painted and got the job done. Once the temple is done however, it is dedicated and set apart as a holy edifice. It could have been the case with the earth where entropy existed, dinosaurs died, pre-adamites lived. The earth was then dedicated and sanctified, the garden of Eden planted and Adam introduced. There was no death at that point but that doesn't mean that there weren't fossils still. This seems to agree with what marktheshark wrote. That or they came with the planet that hit the earth when it created the moon. (Although pretty much everything was molten at that point so...). No matter the case, we have revelation on Adam, we don't have revelation on dinosaurs and pre-adamites. We don't need to mesh the two yet. But it is fun to try.

[jwharton]

Why would the Ancient of Days be the one giving Christ, dominion, and glory, and kingdoms, if He were not His Father?!? Do you not see the pattern laid out before you? It is taught Michael received His dominion, and glory, and kingdoms from His father; and in turn we read, He will follow that same pattern in giving all He received to His righteous posterity. I.e. Christ, us, His children. And we shall follow this pattern and do the same. One eternal round.

Pretty simple explanation: It is discussing Adam-ondi_Ahman when all the keys are returned to Adam (The Ancient of Days) who then turns the kingdom over to Christ. It wouldn't make sense for the Father to give Christ the kingdom since the scriptures always state that Christ said "and the glory be thine". The glory given is the glory of intelligence which is increased through the up-bringing of righteous souls. It seems that prophets also taught this. You never give kingdoms down, you always report up. It wouldn't make sense for all of the prophets to give their keys to Adam and then have them given to Christ if Christ was lower than Adam.


After Adam had received an accounting, Christ will come "as he did to the first grand council in the valley of Adam-ondi-Ahman" Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr., The Way to Perfection, pp. 289-290. and Adam will "deliver[] up his stewardship to Christ, that which was delivered to him as holding the keys of the universe, but retains his standing as head of the human family." Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr., The Way to Perfection, p. 289 (citing The Documentary History of the Church, Vol. 3, pp. 386-7). Christ will "receive[] the keys from Adam." Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr., The Way to Perfection, pp. 289-290. "Christ will be received and acknowledged as the rightful ruler of the earth As stated by Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr., "the kingdom will be turned over to Christ; and he will be sustained in his calling as King of Kings and Lord of Lords." Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr., Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, p. 106 (referencing Daniel 7:9-14; D&C 116; Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 157). and be "given to him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed." Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr., The Way to Perfection, pp. 289-290 (quoting Daniel 7:13-14).) Christ will give directions to the Priesthood. Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr., The Way to Perfection, pp. 290-291.


Father has many worlds that were made by Christ. They place one man to govern a world who is called Adam. Adam oversees the work of the dispensations and the extension of the keys to prophets. Prophets then extend those keys to local leaders.

Father -> Christ -> Adam -> Prophets (dispensations) -> Local leaders

In reporting it goes the other way around until the kingdom is presented before the father. "Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power." 1 Cor. 15:24

The Adam God theory as generally understood is false. Michael (Adam) is not the Father of Jehovah (Christ), neither body or spirit. But it is Elohim that is the literal father of Christ both of body and spirit. It may have been understood by Brigham Young that Elohim's name is Adam as well. It may be that He names the first man of every world after himself. That doesn't seem far off to me. Michal is then Adam Jr. and Elohim is Adam Sr. Taking this stance fixes 90% of Brigham Young's quotes and the other 10% are most likely due to incorrect recording or a misunderstanding of the person recording the talk.

Look to the temple though, it is pretty obvious there and Brigham Young would have changed it according to his belief if he didn't believe it was right since he oversaw the presentation and offering of the endowment after Joseph Smith.

@jwharton - just because you find symbolism in the story of Adam and the creation does not mean it didn't literally happen as well. I understand that you are probably trying to only accept this view since it makes the Adam-God theory as believed by many make more sense. While I believe that the creation and the story of Adam does have symbolism that can be applied to different topics (Ancient Israel, the life of the Savior, the Latter Day Church) does not mean that you can throw away ever other interpretation, especially the literal one. Joseph saw God the Father, Jesus Christ and Adam and described them all differently. They are beings of glory, they do exist and the creation story did happen.

As far as the original topic of pre-adamic men. I agree that the prophets have always taught that Adam came from Elohim and not from evolution. The genetics also support that since there is a distinct gap between our genetics and that of these pre-adamites. I believe they are tied into the rest of the animal kingdom and not to man. Where did they come from along with all of the dinosaurs? No clue. I have a theory that the earth was made much like a temple where people hammered nails, used power tools, painted and got the job done. Once the temple is done however, it is dedicated and set apart as a holy edifice. It could have been the case with the earth where entropy existed, dinosaurs died, pre-adamites lived. The earth was then dedicated and sanctified, the garden of Eden planted and Adam introduced. There was no death at that point but that doesn't mean that there weren't fossils still. This seems to agree with what marktheshark wrote. That or they came with the planet that hit the earth when it created the moon. (Although pretty much everything was molten at that point so...). No matter the case, we have revelation on Adam, we don't have revelation on dinosaurs and pre-adamites. We don't need to mesh the two yet. But it is fun to try.

You have several things wrong here, including your assumption that I am not talking about literal and tangible things.
What I am talking about is a way to understand things in simplicity in a way that they are literal and tangible.
I didn't say we are like an Adam or that Adam is a symbol of us.
I said the covenant body of the Melchizedek priesthood __IS__ Adam.
I also said the covenant body of the church __IS__ Eve.
Both of these keys enable the scriptures surrounding them to take on a natural, literal and tangible understanding.
How else do you propose that Eve is bone of Adam's bone and flesh of Adam's flesh?

Open your eyes and see the narrative of creation in a way that it all makes literal and tangible sense.
Once you do this then you will be able to see how much of the other things you have said are wrong and misleading.

You also get to do away with speculating on what happened 6,000 years ago and start looking directly at what is happening now.
Of course, I have to remember, when you do that it becomes VERY uncomfortable for most everyone.
Most people on this forum are clueless to the extent they are taken in by and upholding Lucifer/Cain.
When your eyes are opened fully you better be prepared to make some changes in your beliefs because things are far from well in Zion right now.

[BurningSword]

Sandman, your quotes did nothing to establish the fact that these supported the Adam God theory. For example, we, as LDS, already know that Heavenly Father had a father, but that does nothing to support that theory which is contrary to the scriptures! Also, Wharton, it is very obvious to anyone who understands basic English and is not desperately trying to wrest the scriptures, that Brigham Young did indeed contradict himself! Adam can not have the same Heavenly Father as we and still be our Heavenly Father! Those people who hold to these foolish beliefs will always remain a small cult and never part of fulfilling Daniel's prophesy referring to the true church that will fill the earth! They are only deceiving themselves!!!

You know the scriptures say mankind is adopted through Christ, and he becomes their Heavenly Father. I think people like to ignore that so can believe they already are Children of God before the time of adoptions, Jesus made clear distinctions that mankind can indeed become Children of the Devil or Children of God based on choices they make while in the probationary period of choosing good from evil. Remember it was also said intelligences are organised into spirits, much like taking something then organising it that is not creating it but taking something that already existed and using it. It is also said this world will end in fire burned up and anew one made by the Word of Christ not the church or Christians or any others but power of God alone. Now is it not as Lucifer to believe ye are Gods already for was it not that which was the temptation that lead to the fall of Adam and Eve before hand, and God himself said this world was organised around 6,000 years ago, so how could their have been many generations or people upon it before hand. Dinosaurs are now also to be dated back only a few thousand years pre-dating the flood but not millions of years as some deceivers once claimed to try discredit God and promote the nonsense of evolution.

Now Jesus Christ is a Heavenly Father and has a Heavenly Father, but it is also said that both He and his Father had no beginning but that all other intelligences were organised and had a beginning, so it is a mystery still and is said it cant be comprehended by minds of mankind what God actually is, so it is not blasphemy for people to make it seem that Jesus was never part of God but a chosen spirit whom because of being chosen became God, there is far more to it all than was ever revealed to mankind and people should not even be focusing on such mystery's for they still cant comprehend the things of the earth so how can they comprehend the things of Heavens. And LDS do indeed lessen the important of things even so seeing themselves as Gods already and it is the adversary that has removed the true humility from the members of the church as many indeed do see Jesus as just a brother that was chosen to be a roll of Saviour.

[BurningSword]

Why would the Ancient of Days be the one giving Christ, dominion, and glory, and kingdoms, if He were not His Father?!? Do you not see the pattern laid out before you? It is taught Michael received His dominion, and glory, and kingdoms from His father; and in turn we read, He will follow that same pattern in giving all He received to His righteous posterity. I.e. Christ, us, His children. And we shall follow this pattern and do the same. One eternal round.

Pretty simple explanation: It is discussing Adam-ondi_Ahman when all the keys are returned to Adam (The Ancient of Days) who then turns the kingdom over to Christ. It wouldn't make sense for the Father to give Christ the kingdom since the scriptures always state that Christ said "and the glory be thine". The glory given is the glory of intelligence which is increased through the up-bringing of righteous souls. It seems that prophets also taught this. You never give kingdoms down, you always report up. It wouldn't make sense for all of the prophets to give their keys to Adam and then have them given to Christ if Christ was lower than Adam.


After Adam had received an accounting, Christ will come "as he did to the first grand council in the valley of Adam-ondi-Ahman" Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr., The Way to Perfection, pp. 289-290. and Adam will "deliver[] up his stewardship to Christ, that which was delivered to him as holding the keys of the universe, but retains his standing as head of the human family." Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr., The Way to Perfection, p. 289 (citing The Documentary History of the Church, Vol. 3, pp. 386-7). Christ will "receive[] the keys from Adam." Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr., The Way to Perfection, pp. 289-290. "Christ will be received and acknowledged as the rightful ruler of the earth As stated by Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr., "the kingdom will be turned over to Christ; and he will be sustained in his calling as King of Kings and Lord of Lords." Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr., Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, p. 106 (referencing Daniel 7:9-14; D&C 116; Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 157). and be "given to him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed." Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr., The Way to Perfection, pp. 289-290 (quoting Daniel 7:13-14).) Christ will give directions to the Priesthood. Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr., The Way to Perfection, pp. 290-291.


Father has many worlds that were made by Christ. They place one man to govern a world who is called Adam. Adam oversees the work of the dispensations and the extension of the keys to prophets. Prophets then extend those keys to local leaders.

Father -> Christ -> Adam -> Prophets (dispensations) -> Local leaders

In reporting it goes the other way around until the kingdom is presented before the father. "Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power." 1 Cor. 15:24

The Adam God theory as generally understood is false. Michael (Adam) is not the Father of Jehovah (Christ), neither body or spirit. But it is Elohim that is the literal father of Christ both of body and spirit. It may have been understood by Brigham Young that Elohim's name is Adam as well. It may be that He names the first man of every world after himself. That doesn't seem far off to me. Michal is then Adam Jr. and Elohim is Adam Sr. Taking this stance fixes 90% of Brigham Young's quotes and the other 10% are most likely due to incorrect recording or a misunderstanding of the person recording the talk.

Look to the temple though, it is pretty obvious there and Brigham Young would have changed it according to his belief if he didn't believe it was right since he oversaw the presentation and offering of the endowment after Joseph Smith.

@jwharton - just because you find symbolism in the story of Adam and the creation does not mean it didn't literally happen as well. I understand that you are probably trying to only accept this view since it makes the Adam-God theory as believed by many make more sense. While I believe that the creation and the story of Adam does have symbolism that can be applied to different topics (Ancient Israel, the life of the Savior, the Latter Day Church) does not mean that you can throw away ever other interpretation, especially the literal one. Joseph saw God the Father, Jesus Christ and Adam and described them all differently. They are beings of glory, they do exist and the creation story did happen.

As far as the original topic of pre-adamic men. I agree that the prophets have always taught that Adam came from Elohim and not from evolution. The genetics also support that since there is a distinct gap between our genetics and that of these pre-adamites. I believe they are tied into the rest of the animal kingdom and not to man. Where did they come from along with all of the dinosaurs? No clue. I have a theory that the earth was made much like a temple where people hammered nails, used power tools, painted and got the job done. Once the temple is done however, it is dedicated and set apart as a holy edifice. It could have been the case with the earth where entropy existed, dinosaurs died, pre-adamites lived. The earth was then dedicated and sanctified, the garden of Eden planted and Adam introduced. There was no death at that point but that doesn't mean that there weren't fossils still. This seems to agree with what marktheshark wrote. That or they came with the planet that hit the earth when it created the moon. (Although pretty much everything was molten at that point so...). No matter the case, we have revelation on Adam, we don't have revelation on dinosaurs and pre-adamites. We don't need to mesh the two yet. But it is fun to try.

Listen the keys to kingdom of Heaven had to be temporarily given to a trusted servant so that the Son of God could enter into Hell and take the keys of Death and hades from the Devil, He could not hold such keys while containing the worlds sins the truth is the Son obtains the keys once he has finished the atonement and become worthy as the Lion of Judah completely the mystery of the SeventhAngel. I want people to understand something without Jesus Christ you were all bound for eternal torment to continue to fall until totally destroyed and taken by Abaddon, this will be part of what is revealed to people in the judgement and is why every knee will bow and the saved will sing songs of joy. The LDS is not wholly correct in everything and the errors can be offensive to the Son of God and Satan uses those errors to gain more power over the members and lead them away.

[slimjamm]

Why would the Ancient of Days be the one giving Christ, dominion, and glory, and kingdoms, if He were not His Father?!? Do you not see the pattern laid out before you? It is taught Michael received His dominion, and glory, and kingdoms from His father; and in turn we read, He will follow that same pattern in giving all He received to His righteous posterity. I.e. Christ, us, His children. And we shall follow this pattern and do the same. One eternal round.

Pretty simple explanation: It is discussing Adam-ondi_Ahman when all the keys are returned to Adam (The Ancient of Days) who then turns the kingdom over to Christ. It wouldn't make sense for the Father to give Christ the kingdom since the scriptures always state that Christ said "and the glory be thine". The glory given is the glory of intelligence which is increased through the up-bringing of righteous souls. It seems that prophets also taught this. You never give kingdoms down, you always report up. It wouldn't make sense for all of the prophets to give their keys to Adam and then have them given to Christ if Christ was lower than Adam.


After Adam had received an accounting, Christ will come "as he did to the first grand council in the valley of Adam-ondi-Ahman" Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr., The Way to Perfection, pp. 289-290. and Adam will "deliver[] up his stewardship to Christ, that which was delivered to him as holding the keys of the universe, but retains his standing as head of the human family." Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr., The Way to Perfection, p. 289 (citing The Documentary History of the Church, Vol. 3, pp. 386-7). Christ will "receive[] the keys from Adam." Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr., The Way to Perfection, pp. 289-290. "Christ will be received and acknowledged as the rightful ruler of the earth As stated by Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr., "the kingdom will be turned over to Christ; and he will be sustained in his calling as King of Kings and Lord of Lords." Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr., Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, p. 106 (referencing Daniel 7:9-14; D&C 116; Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 157). and be "given to him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed." Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr., The Way to Perfection, pp. 289-290 (quoting Daniel 7:13-14).) Christ will give directions to the Priesthood. Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr., The Way to Perfection, pp. 290-291.


Father has many worlds that were made by Christ. They place one man to govern a world who is called Adam. Adam oversees the work of the dispensations and the extension of the keys to prophets. Prophets then extend those keys to local leaders.

Father -> Christ -> Adam -> Prophets (dispensations) -> Local leaders

In reporting it goes the other way around until the kingdom is presented before the father. "Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power." 1 Cor. 15:24

The Adam God theory as generally understood is false. Michael (Adam) is not the Father of Jehovah (Christ), neither body or spirit. But it is Elohim that is the literal father of Christ both of body and spirit. It may have been understood by Brigham Young that Elohim's name is Adam as well. It may be that He names the first man of every world after himself. That doesn't seem far off to me. Michal is then Adam Jr. and Elohim is Adam Sr. Taking this stance fixes 90% of Brigham Young's quotes and the other 10% are most likely due to incorrect recording or a misunderstanding of the person recording the talk.

Look to the temple though, it is pretty obvious there and Brigham Young would have changed it according to his belief if he didn't believe it was right since he oversaw the presentation and offering of the endowment after Joseph Smith.

@jwharton - just because you find symbolism in the story of Adam and the creation does not mean it didn't literally happen as well. I understand that you are probably trying to only accept this view since it makes the Adam-God theory as believed by many make more sense. While I believe that the creation and the story of Adam does have symbolism that can be applied to different topics (Ancient Israel, the life of the Savior, the Latter Day Church) does not mean that you can throw away ever other interpretation, especially the literal one. Joseph saw God the Father, Jesus Christ and Adam and described them all differently. They are beings of glory, they do exist and the creation story did happen.

As far as the original topic of pre-adamic men. I agree that the prophets have always taught that Adam came from Elohim and not from evolution. The genetics also support that since there is a distinct gap between our genetics and that of these pre-adamites. I believe they are tied into the rest of the animal kingdom and not to man. Where did they come from along with all of the dinosaurs? No clue. I have a theory that the earth was made much like a temple where people hammered nails, used power tools, painted and got the job done. Once the temple is done however, it is dedicated and set apart as a holy edifice. It could have been the case with the earth where entropy existed, dinosaurs died, pre-adamites lived. The earth was then dedicated and sanctified, the garden of Eden planted and Adam introduced. There was no death at that point but that doesn't mean that there weren't fossils still. This seems to agree with what marktheshark wrote. That or they came with the planet that hit the earth when it created the moon. (Although pretty much everything was molten at that point so...). No matter the case, we have revelation on Adam, we don't have revelation on dinosaurs and pre-adamites. We don't need to mesh the two yet. But it is fun to try.

Characters and titles from the endowment being misplaced or misunderstood is a stumbling block for many. Elohim, is not one distinct individual only; rather, a council of gods. Jehovah, in the endowment is not Jesus Christ; but, a savior of Michael's, former world. Or Michael's god. Adam, is simply a title given to the first man of every world. How and why would Michael and his wife Eve, have immortal bodies (resurrected, flesh and bone) upon entering the garden; yet Christ still only a spirit body? Unless, Michael and his wife Eve, had already worked out their salvation on another world. Were resurrected and glorified, progressed, until it came time for them to produce spirit children of their own; create a new world for their children to then continue the same eternal pattern.

You then see the inheritance (dominion, and glory, kingdoms) of the father going to the son; just as patterned here with what was the birthright and birthright blessing going to the oldest righteous son. Not kingdoms going down, but rather growing and expanding through the immortality and eternal lives of their posterity.

Think of the anointing in the initiatory and promised blessings if we are faithful. They are being able to continue and fulfill this same pattern, the same one Michael, and the gods before him followed.

[jwharton]

Michael-Adam comes down first to lay the foundation of the new creation. (Think Joseph Smith and company.)
This happens during the latter-days of the soon to be finished creation. (That's right now.)
He falls into transgression and is redeemed before he can regain his throne. (That happened in Missouri and we yet await our redemption.)
Upon Adam's redemption and victory a creation is birthed anew as the old perishes. (This is what we are looking forward to.)
Michael-Adam is redeemed by Jehovah-Son of Man and together they are in union as Father-Eloheim. (This new exalted Godhead will be re-membered.)

We are talking about flesh and bone bodies here, which are covenant bodies as I have earlier said.
Please, open your eyes and see that this is all happening right now right in front of our faces in broad daylight.

[gdemetz80815]

I explained that already. Michael commits his STEWARDSHIP to Christ, who is King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Such titles have never been attributed to Adam. Adam is simply referred to as the "prince". Such strange (such as a great god falling into transgression) lengthy writings with no substance other than opinions, and opinions which clearly contradict the scriptures do not impress me.

[slimjamm]

I explained that already. Michael commits his STEWARDSHIP to Christ, who is King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Such titles have never been attributed to Adam. Adam is simply referred to as the "prince". Such strange (such as a great god falling into transgression) lengthy writings with no substance other than opinions, and opinions which clearly contradict the scriptures do not impress me.

Yet you refuse to answer simple questions, ignore very important details. You ignore that Michael already had an immortal body before Christ even received a mortal one, how is that? You ignore where Michael is specifically told, He is made Lord over His creation; this world and everything on it, even Jesus Chrsit. He is given dominion over all things, again, even Jesus Christ. Which is why even Christ must return and report to his head, Michael. He is called the great God in section 88. Which also follows the pattern of the prophets and scriptures; wherein Jesus, along with everyone else must stand before Michael and deliver up any keys and report, hereafter the inheritance is given to worthy posterity. How can one give stewardship or inheritance, if they haven't first received it themselves? You've seen the pattern in the endowment, Michael returns and reports to Jehovah. Jehovah returns and reports to Elohim. Your ignoring patterns is what leads to your deception.

[gdemetz80815]

You are stating your opinions here! What question didn't I answer? Jesus Christ is the creator, according to the scriptures which is often ignored here. Yes, Michael reports to his superior, Jehovah, or Christ, who reports to His superior, Elohim! You are stating your opinions here and you are the one who is deceived because you put your opinions above what the scriptures plainly teach over and over again! I'll give you another example: See the heading of Alma, chapter 11, "There is no death after the resurrection", also verse 45: "Now, behold, I have spoken to you concerning the death of the mortal body, and also concerning the resurrection of the mortal body. I say unto you that this mortal body is raised to an immortal body, that is from death, even from the first death unto life, THAT THEY CAN DIE NO MORE; their spirits uniting with their bodies, NEVER TO BE DIVIDED, thus the whole becoming spiritual and immortal, THAT THEY CAN SEE NO MORE CORRUPTION." You see, I have given you already so many plain scriptures that shoot the heck out of the ridiculous Adam God theory without giving my interpretation and putting a big SPIN it like you do, and what do you do? You just bury your head in the sand and pretend that it just isn't real!!!

[jwharton]

I explained that already. Michael commits his STEWARDSHIP to Christ, who is King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Such titles have never been attributed to Adam. Adam is simply referred to as the "prince". Such strange (such as a great god falling into transgression) lengthy writings with no substance other than opinions, and opinions which clearly contradict the scriptures do not impress me.

Yet you refuse to answer simple questions, ignore very important details. You ignore that Michael already had an immortal body before Christ even received a mortal one, how is that? You ignore where Michael is specifically told, He is made Lord over His creation; this world and everything on it, even Jesus Chrsit. He is given dominion over all things, again, even Jesus Christ. Which is why even Christ must return and report to his head, Michael. He is called the great God in section 88. Which also follows the pattern of the prophets and scriptures; wherein Jesus, along with everyone else must stand before Michael and deliver up any keys and report, hereafter the inheritance is given to worthy posterity. How can one give stewardship or inheritance, if they haven't first received it themselves? You've seen the pattern in the endowment, Michael returns and reports to Jehovah. Jehovah returns and reports to Elohim. Your ignoring patterns is what leads to your deception.

You are missing one very important detail.
Once Michael is redeemed He is no longer just Michael.
The redemptive process has Him become the Eloheim of the new Creation.
Most people think Adam remains fallen but we know otherwise.
Adam is redeemed when Son of Man comes and redeems Him.
The means by which Michael is redeemed is through union with Jehovah.
This is how and where Jehovah has the ascendency over Michael.
This is also how and why Jehovah is the most prominent portion of the Eloheim body.

Keep in mind, this is not at all a bizzare thing to contemplate when you understand these are covenant bodies we are talking about here.
Joseh Smith Jr. clearly taught that bodies of flesh and bone are the kind of bodies the Father and the Son have.
Paul clearly taught that bodies of flesh and bone are composed of members, which members are us as individuals.
This all becomes clear when people take the language of the endowment seriously which tells us we are collectively Adam and Eve.

[gdemetz80815]

Apparently you didn't read my last message, or you didn't understand it!

[jwharton]

Apparently you didn't read my last message, or you didn't understand it!

Who are you talking to here?

Is this the message you are talking about?

You are stating your opinions here! What question didn't I answer? Jesus Christ is the creator, according to the scriptures which is often ignored here. Yes, Michael reports to his superior, Jehovah, or Christ, who reports to His superior, Elohim! You are stating your opinions here and you are the one who is deceived because you put your opinions above what the scriptures plainly teach over and over again! I'll give you another example: See the heading of Alma, chapter 11, "There is no death after the resurrection", also verse 45: "Now, behold, I have spoken to you concerning the death of the mortal body, and also concerning the resurrection of the mortal body. I say unto you that this mortal body is raised to an immortal body, that is from death, even from the first death unto life, THAT THEY CAN DIE NO MORE; their spirits uniting with their bodies, NEVER TO BE DIVIDED, thus the whole becoming spiritual and immortal, THAT THEY CAN SEE NO MORE CORRUPTION." You see, I have given you already so many plain scriptures that shoot the heck out of the ridiculous Adam God theory without giving my interpretation and putting a big SPIN it like you do, and what do you do? You just bury your head in the sand and pretend that it just isn't real!!!

I'll go ahead and respond to this as if you were replying to me.

You are stating your opinions here!

I am sharing my understanding here, as are you.

So, mine is just opinion and yours is not your opinion but something I shouldn't question? Upon what basis?

What question didn't I answer?

Too many to list here. My posts are all still there.
If you really care you can go back and examine my previous posts just as easily as I can.

Jesus Christ is the creator, according to the scriptures which is often ignored here.

Creator of what?
We are talking about Jehovah right?
We know that Michael operated under the direction of Jehovah and that Jehovah operated under the direction of Eloheim.
We know that Michael starts out first and becomes the new Adam for the new cycle of creation.
We also know that Eloheim is referred to as Adam as well.
However, when is Jehovah ever referred to as Adam?
There are no direct references to such and I can see why that is.
There is a way that you can refer to Jehovah as such, but it requires some care to see how.

This is because Jehovah is Son of Man, who is the Only Begotten of Adam.
Sure, Adam had several sons, but only one of them actually survived and became begotten of God.
The name of that son is Seth and Seth was instrumental in bringing Adam to redemption.
Seth was in fact the redeemer of Adam, as well as the kinsman redeemer to Abel.
After Eve's redemption, Seth was considered Abel's substitute.

This makes sense when you take the endowment narrative, the pre-mortal existence narrative and the creation narrative and put them all together.

Endowment narrative:
Michael sent down first to lay the foundation for the new creation as Adam.
Jehovah is sent down as the Redeemer of the new Adam who transgressed and fell.
Lucifer is cast down and Adam is enabled to obtain His dominion in victory by Jehovah.

Pre-mortal existence narrative:
Father's Plan = Michael-Adam's dominion to establish the Father's Kingdom
Father's Two sons = Cain and Abel representing Lucifer and Jehovah
One son says "Thy will be done and the glory be Thine" = Abel (replaced by Seth)
One son says "I will save all, wherefore give me Thine honor" = Cain
Cain usurps for a time and deceives several of the Father's spirit children.
There is the "War in Heaven" when Lucifer's usurpation over Michael is terminated.
Michael wins the "War in Heaven" due to Son of Man's instrumentality to redeem Him.
Cain and his followers are cast out of heaven and blotted out of the "Book of Life" and sent to perdition.

Creation narrative:
Adam is made Prophet, Priest and King over the Kingdom of God.
Adam transgresses and falls and is driven out of the Garden of Eden.
Adam has two sons named Cain and Abel.
Abel is adamant to bring to his Father the acceptable offering.
Cain is deceived into bringing an offering that is not acceptable to the Father.
Abel's offering is accepted and Cain's is rejected.
Cain grows bitter and jealous and murders Abel.
Cain persists in attempting to usurp the Father's plan.
Cain thinks his alternative sub-Celestial plan is superior.
The author of Cain's plan is Lucifer and it subtly does away with individual agency.

I could go on and into more detail but I think you can see how all of these are essentially touching upon the exact same narrative.

When this all really starts to snap into a crystal clear focus is when you see that this narrative is playing out right now in tangible form.
I know it is a picture most people will get utterly sick to their stomach to overlay upon our history of the past 200 years or so, but it is what it is.

Michael-Adam is the original founding priesthood body of the restoration and Eve is His bride, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
They were placed in the Garden of Eden that for this cycle of Creation is located in Jackson County Missouri.
They transgressed and were driven out into the lone and dreary wilderness of the Great Basin in what is now Utah.
They had two offshoots (sons) who were divided upon what kind of an offering to make.
One son (priesthood body) was adamant to hold to the fundamentals of the Celestial Laws.
Another son (priesthood body) became to believe that Celestial law could be done away with and that another plan was superior.
The one son who was faithful and true to the Father was murdered (excommunicated) by the other son who was jealous, etc.
With the faithful son dead and removed out of the way the evil son believe all of his brother's flocks (congregations) would fall into his hand.
If was the unfaithful son's intent to usurp everything and consolidate all of the Father's dominion to himself and murder everything else.
It was his intent to offer everyone a simple guarantee of salvation. Is all they had to do was just do whatever they were told to do.
He truly believed his plan was a plan superior to the Father's plan and in his arrogance he thought nothing of usurping everything.
If anyone under this new plan questioned his power and authority and infallibility then they received the same fate as Abel.
Bit by bit the principle of individual agency was replaced with a system that made everyone into minions of a "benevolent" tyrant.
Instead of things having local autonomy everything began to be consolidated with centralized power and authority all to the top.
Done away with was the ability to conscientiously object to officers and be respectfully considered.
This process was replaced as the time when everyone perfunctorily surrendered their individual agency.
No more was the Father's plan openly spoken well of. It was deemed apostate to speak favorably of it.
It would get to the point where the Father's plan would be held with near complete contempt.

This is where we are right now and the minions of Lucifer are the tares and the wheat are the few who yet hold true to the Father.

Yes, Michael reports to his superior, Jehovah, or Christ, who reports to His superior, Elohim!

And how many times is Eloheim also referred to as Adam?
It is credibly referenced by the early prophets that such is the case.
So, how can Adam initially be Michael but later also be Eloheim too?
It's simple. When Adam is redeemed He becomes Eloheim.
At the tail end of a cycle of creation Michael comes to lay the new foundation.
He falls and needs to be redeemed and when this happens the new creation is born.
Adam at the end is Michael and Adam in the beginning is Eloheim.
This all becomes clear when you can discern the end from the beginning.

When Michael is redeemed by Jehovah they become Eloheim-Adam.
Jehovah becomes the presiding and chief governing agent of the Eloheim body.
Therefore, in this manner, Jehovah is preeminent over Michael.
This is how each creation's Eloheim body is newly composed. Union, atonement, etc.

You are stating your opinions here and you are the one who is deceived because you put your opinions above what the scriptures plainly teach over and over again!

In actual fact, the scriptures, the endowment, the pre-mortal existence narrative (Mormon oral tradition), etc. have never actually made complete sense to me until I was given by revelation how they all weave together and snap into a clear focus exactly what is also going on with our own narrative. All of this dovetails together in a complete and revealing manner that says the Father is serious about establishing His Kingdom in victory and that no other alternative substitutes will be acceptable.

My understanding reveals that the string of body bags (spiritually speaking) will eventually come to a close. Lucifer's alternative plan will eventually be exposed for what it is. All those standing in the great and spacious building pointing their fingers to mock and scorn those partaking of the true love of the Father that His plan manifests need not shrink away in shame and fear the reprisals of the wicked. Those who have stripped the Celestial foundation from out beneath themselves will eventually have their building tumble and fall.

You and others like you can threaten me with the charge of apostasy but I am determined to hold true to the Father's plan regardless of what happens. I know the Father and I know His plan and I know a cheap knock-off that promises a guarantee of salvation but which is in fact a complete affront to individual agency and accountability. I can see through Lucifer's facade and I can call it out point for point. You may refer to such as merely my own personal opinions, but I still convey to you things you should sincerely take to the Father and ask in sincerity if the principles I am talking about are in harmony with His plan or not. Then, you can know for yourself, by the power of the Holy Ghost, if what I say is true or not. Doing so would have you be an individual agent. Simply doing as your file leaders tell you would have you be someone else's minion. Which sounds more in harmony with the Father's plan of individual agency to you?

I'll give you another example: See the heading of Alma, chapter 11, "There is no death after the resurrection", also verse 45: "Now, behold, I have spoken to you concerning the death of the mortal body, and also concerning the resurrection of the mortal body. I say unto you that this mortal body is raised to an immortal body, that is from death, even from the first death unto life, THAT THEY CAN DIE NO MORE; their spirits uniting with their bodies, NEVER TO BE DIVIDED, thus the whole becoming spiritual and immortal, THAT THEY CAN SEE NO MORE CORRUPTION." You see, I have given you already so many plain scriptures that shoot the heck out of the ridiculous Adam God theory without giving my interpretation and putting a big SPIN it like you do, and what do you do? You just bury your head in the sand and pretend that it just isn't real!!!

Your example here doesn't refute what I have shared.
Alma taught that resurrection is good for good and corruption for corruption.
D&C 132:26 teaches that some can receive resurrection but yet still be destroyed in the flesh.
This is what is referred to as the second death, surely you have heard of the second death?
And, this is what Adam and Eve suffered when they were driven out and scattered into the wilderness.
Then, there is the redemption from the second death which is called the second resurrection.

Alma only knew so much and he was constantly seeking to know more.
Thanks to being in the dispensation of the fullness of times, we have more knowledge available to us than Alma had.
What he said was true in the main and in the most part but there are important details he didn't have a full picture of.

[sandman45]

jwharton

excellent posts!

slimjamm

excellent posts!!

i was going to reply but you guys said what I was going.. jwharton added some things in that I did now realize or know before so thank you very much.. very uplifting and edifying!

[gdemetz80815]

All through the scriptures, the second death is referred to a spiritual death! Also, the destroying in the flesh referrs to BEFORE the resurrection! Despite the long winded posts, the scriptures specifically state that there is NO MORE DEATH AFTER THE RESURRECTION! ALL THAT I HAVE SEEN HERE IS A GROSS TWISTING AND WRESTING OF THE SCRIPTURES!!!