"Stay in the Boat" vs " come on i,n the water is fine "

[Cowboy]

I thought one of the best talks from General Conference was Elder Ballard's talk of staying in the boat and not leaving the Church for whatever reason.
One of the points that keep coming up on the board is following the Savior and if you need the Church and the Brethren to do that.
As every protestant and especially the born agains will tell you, you don't need the Church to follow the Savior and gain Salvation.
Now, if you are after Exaltation, THAT can only be gained through the Priesthood authority contained in the Lords Church. This one!
This " alternative " path that some think they have found is pure folly. No such thing. This constant sniping at the Brethren is nothing more than " evil speaking of the Lords anointed ".
If you have left the Church or are in the process of doing so, you are leaving the boat and joining those that are happily saying " the water is fine, come on in", but you are giving up your chance at Exaltation.
You can throw scriptures around all you want, you can contend, you can play the part of Korihor, mislead or befuddle. In the end, you have left the Lord's boat and you are cooked. Not too complicated.

[ajax]

What if Jesus beckons you to walk on water to Him?

I hope we don't err in being too proud of our boat.

[iWriteStuff]

What if Jesus beckons you to walk on water to Him?

I hope we don't err in being too proud of our boat.

Funny you should say that - the people Jesus beckoned to were in the boat .

[rewcox]

Lehi and his family had gratitude for their boat that took the to the promised land.

Maybe Laman and Lemuel preferred to jump in the water.

[TZONE]

What if your nephi in this day and age, the Lord tells you to kill someone. Ok I know its far fetched. But lets say it did happen, and it was fromo the lord not the devil. Ok you obey. You obey taht sacrifice. ("a religiion that doesn't require the sacrifice of all earthly things..." never can give you the faith to be Saved). Ok your bishop finds out, "God would never tell you to do that!"... But God did!. So He gets exed for "murder".

This is an extreme example. So does this man loose his chance for exaltation?

[ajax]

What if Jesus beckons you to walk on water to Him?

I hope we don't err in being too proud of our boat.

Funny you should say that - the people Jesus beckoned to were in the boat .

Yes, I know. What if He beckons you to come out?

Lehi and his family had gratitude for their boat that took the to the promised land.

Maybe Laman and Lemuel preferred to jump in the water.

Perhaps they should have stayed in the bigger boat in Jerusalem, with authorized priests and ordinances. Instead they went off and started doing their own.

[SmallFarm]

What if your nephi in this day and age, the Lord tells you to kill someone. Ok I know its far fetched. But lets say it did happen, and it was fromo the lord not the devil. Ok you obey. You obey taht sacrifice. ("a religiion that doesn't require the sacrifice of all earthly things..." never can give you the faith to be Saved). Ok your bishop finds out, "God would never tell you to do that!"... But God did!. So He gets exed for "murder".

This is an extreme example. So does this man loose his chance for exaltation?

In your example I would assume the Bishop was inspired of the Lord to do so but I would reserve judgement against the man personally.

[SmallFarm]

Or in other words I believe in covering both the brethren and D.S. in a blanket of charity. To do so for one and not the other is hypocrisy.

[TZONE]

What if your nephi in this day and age, the Lord tells you to kill someone. Ok I know its far fetched. But lets say it did happen, and it was fromo the lord not the devil. Ok you obey. You obey taht sacrifice. ("a religiion that doesn't require the sacrifice of all earthly things..." never can give you the faith to be Saved). Ok your bishop finds out, "God would never tell you to do that!"... But God did!. So He gets exed for "murder".

This is an extreme example. So does this man loose his chance for exaltation?

In your example I would assume the Bishop was inspired of the Lord to do so but I would reserve judgement against the man personally.

That is possible too.

King James Bible
Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. Deuteronomy 13:3

[rewcox]

Laman and Lemuel just didn't like leaders, so said the angel.

Know ye not that the Lord hath chosen him to be a ruler over you, and this because of your iniquities?
1 Nephi 3:29
http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/1-ne/3?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[ajax]

Laman and Lemuel just didn't like leaders, so said the angel.

Know ye not that the Lord hath chosen him to be a ruler over you, and this because of your iniquities?
1 Nephi 3:29
http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/1-ne/3?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Who said anything about leaders? What if THE LORD beckons you to come off?

Do you do it?

Is it even a possibility? Impossible?

[iWriteStuff]

Laman and Lemuel just didn't like leaders, so said the angel.

Know ye not that the Lord hath chosen him to be a ruler over you, and this because of your iniquities?
1 Nephi 3:29
http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/1-ne/3?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Who said anything about leaders? What if THE LORD beckons you to come off?

Do you do it?

Is it even a possibility? Impossible?

Perhaps maybe that's the test - if it really is the Lord, you will walk out to meet Him. If it isn't, I hope you're a strong swimmer. It's a long way back to that boat.

For me, I'd do it. I'd do it if The Savior asked me.

[rewcox]

Not everyone has to sacrifice Isaac, nor kill Laban.

Some have decided they need to leave the boat, they need a dramatic sacrifice.

Stay with the church and the leaders, or tell yourself you need to do something dramatic.

[Jeremy]

Funny you should say that - the people Jesus beckoned to were in the boat .

Funny you should say that - "were" is not only past tense, it is also plural.

As for this boat, I have listened to the Catholics use this same symbol to represent The Church. As Mormons we say to them that they have lost the authority and so their boat is run by man.

If Christ is on the boat, I would love to be there. If Christ is out walking on the waters, I would love to be there.

I don't understand the hostility towards those who are openly and blatantly trying to follow Christ and taking out a middle man. I just dont understand the hostility. I totally understand the ignorance... for I am just as ignorant. But hostility... man cowboy. Give me a hug. :ymhug:

[iWriteStuff]

Funny you should say that - the people Jesus beckoned to were in the boat .

Funny you should say that - "were" is not only past tense, it is also plural.

As for this boat, I have listened to the Catholics use this same symbol to represent The Church. As Mormons we say to them that they have lost the authority and so their boat is run by man.

If Christ is on the boat, I would love to be there. If Christ is out walking on the waters, I would love to be there.

I don't understand the hostility towards those who are openly and blatantly trying to follow Christ and taking out a middle man. I just dont understand the hostility. I totally understand the ignorance... for I am just as ignorant. But hostility... man cowboy. Give me a hug. :ymhug:

At present, it is my testimony that Jesus is the Captain of the boat. That is both present tense and singular (in terms of both boat and Captain).

In terms of present day circumstances, I would assert that the boat is also an ark, steered through calamities and troubled waters, rescuing souls from perishing in dangerous times. This is just my interpretation, though, so poke at it as you will.

[rewcox]

I don't understand the hostility towards those who are openly and blatantly trying to follow Christ and taking out a middle man. I just dont understand the hostility. I totally understand the ignorance... for I am just as ignorant. But hostility... man cowboy. Give me a hug. :ymhug:

Because you are anti church and leaders.

There is no issue with seeking Christ. You ignore the scriptures about apostle and prophets, and church organization. You believe the church lost power when Joseph was martyred.

And that seems to be all you can talk about.

[ajax]

Some have decided they need to leave the boat, they need a dramatic sacrifice.

Stay with the church and the leaders, or tell yourself you need to do something dramatic.

Yes, the decision was ultimately theirs to make, and it can be dramatic. But what if they were invited, beckoned, warned to leave by God?

Lehi was warned, then the decision was placed in his lap. He didn't do it of his own accord.

If someone were to come to you and say they have been led by the spirit to leave, would you pressure them otherwise? In what position would that put you?

[SmallFarm]

Some have decided they need to leave the boat, they need a dramatic sacrifice.

Stay with the church and the leaders, or tell yourself you need to do something dramatic.

Yes, the decision was ultimately theirs to make, and it can be dramatic. But what if they were invited, beckoned, warned to leave by God?

Lehi was warned, then the decision was placed in his lap. He didn't do it of his own accord.

If someone were to come to you and say they have been led by the spirit to leave, would you pressure them otherwise? In what position would that put you?

Here is an example of a post that some may jump the gun and say is evil speaking of the church. I don't think that is Ajax's intent here; rather, he is inviting you to exercise a little empathy for those who believe differently that you.

[ajax]

I don't understand the hostility towards those who are openly and blatantly trying to follow Christ and taking out a middle man. I just dont understand the hostility. I totally understand the ignorance... for I am just as ignorant. But hostility... man cowboy. Give me a hug. :ymhug:

Because you are anti church and leaders.

There is no issue with seeking Christ. You ignore the scriptures about apostle and prophets, and church organization. You believe the church lost power when Joseph was martyred.

And that seems to be all you can talk about.

Um, he didn't start this thread. Perhaps you missed his Sacrament thread in the main forum. He also has a nice sacred geometry thread going in the HG forum. FWIW, you seem to like these theads a lot as well.

[ajax]

Some have decided they need to leave the boat, they need a dramatic sacrifice.

Stay with the church and the leaders, or tell yourself you need to do something dramatic.

Yes, the decision was ultimately theirs to make, and it can be dramatic. But what if they were invited, beckoned, warned to leave by God?

Lehi was warned, then the decision was placed in his lap. He didn't do it of his own accord.

If someone were to come to you and say they have been led by the spirit to leave, would you pressure them otherwise? In what position would that put you?

Here is an example of a post that some may jump the gun and say is evil speaking of the church. I don't think that is Ajax's intent here; rather, he is inviting you to exercise a little empathy for those who believe differently that you.

Thank you. Not my intent at all. My point is, for some He asks to stay(for whatever reason), for some He asks to go (for whatever reason), for some He asks to kill (for whatever reason), etc, etc. Jeremiah stayed and Lehi left, and they were both right. Our journeys are so very personal and tailor made if we allow the Lord to lead.

[gruden2.0]

You believe the church lost power when Joseph was martyred.

Faith is power, the power to move mountains and divide the waters. There are numerous examples of members exercising faith after Joseph where even miracles happened. When Joseph died, we lost the person God had authorized to issue commandments to His people on Earth. Two very different things.

And that seems to be all you can talk about.

Nah, just a case of selective hearing. Happens to us all.

[rewcox]

If someone were to come to you and say they have been led by the spirit to leave, would you pressure them otherwise? In what position would that put you?

One thing I have learned on this site and others is people all say they have the spirit yet they do opposite things. So if a person says the spirit has told them to do a drastic thing, I would encourage them to really consider it.

Some people say they really felt the spirit with DS. I haven't but he has some good logic in places. I have watched to see how people react, the fruit in my mind, and I don't see a positive output.

Tim Malone's example is one I've watched. He jumped off the ship, while his wife wonders what is going on. This will take some time to see what happens.

I listened to conference, was inspired and heard nothing that causes me concern. BDLds thought it was twisted.

[rewcox]

Um, he didn't start this thread. Perhaps you missed his Sacrament thread in the main forum. He also has a nice sacred geometry thread going in the HG forum. FWIW, you seem to like these theads a lot as well.

Thrown out.

[ajax]

If someone were to come to you and say they have been led by the spirit to leave, would you pressure them otherwise? In what position would that put you?

One thing I have learned on this site and others is people all say they have the spirit yet they do opposite things. So if a person says the spirit has told them to do a drastic thing, I would encourage them to really consider it. What makes you think they haven't really considered it? I've found that most who may be leaning to do a "drastic" thing have been struggling with it internally for a long time - as pertaining to the correctness of the choice. Much prayer, fasting etc. None of this is easy.

Some people say they really felt the spirit with DS. I haven't but he has some good logic in places. I have watched to see how people react, the fruit in my mind, and I don't see a positive output. My experience is opposite of yours. And that's fine. Maybe we are both right for now.

Tim Malone's example is one I've watched. He jumped off the ship, while his wife wonders what is going on. This will take some time to see what happens. If they really love each other, no worries.

I listened to conference, was inspired and heard nothing that causes me concern. BDLds thought it was twisted.

[rewcox]

If they really love each other, no worries

Except a man be born of the water and the spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

And D&C 132.

I'm hoping as God loves all his children, that things can be worked out. I don't think this is scriptural though.