Can revelations or promptings ever be misunderstood?

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KMCopeland
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Re: Can revelations or promptings ever be misunderstood?

Post by KMCopeland »

tmac wrote:Okay, just for the same of discussion, let's assume Cliven Bundy is a crack pot and any "inspiration" he's receiving is from the "other" side -- just for the sake of discussion.

What about MMM -- the Mountain Meadows Massacre? That might be worth considering in the context of this discussion.
What about it? Was the order to shoot considered divinely given?

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tmac
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Re: Can revelations or promptings ever be misunderstood?

Post by tmac »

Was the order to shoot considered divinely given?
That's the age-old question. And by whom was any such divine direction given? But God would never do anything like that right? The Old Testament is full of examples that God would simply never do anything like that, right?

KMCopeland
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Re: Can revelations or promptings ever be misunderstood?

Post by KMCopeland »

tmac wrote:
Was the order to shoot considered divinely given?
That's the age-old question. And by whom was any such divine direction given? But God would never do anything like that right? The Old Testament is full of examples that God would simply never do anything like that, right?
The Old Testament is full of examples of extremely unrighteous behaviour. I have no problem believing God had nothing to do with any of it. Likewise Mountain Meadows. I don't care who claims God told them to do it. I don't believe it.

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Cowboy
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Re: Can revelations or promptings ever be misunderstood?

Post by Cowboy »

KMCopeland wrote:
inquirringmind wrote:
a_member wrote:Incidentally, here's another example -- http://www.thespectrum.com/story/news/l ... /13536097/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I read that.

But how do you know Clive Bundy was wrong?
It's a good question. My first impression, on reading Mr. Bundy's words, is "what a crackpot." And it's one of those first impressions I would tend to rely on. But I'd stop short of saying "I'm sure he's wrong." The first reason I'd do that is I don't see him as a huge threat to anybody (if he was a large-scale threat to the innocent, the trusting and the gullible I'd be far more concerned about that foolishness he spews), and the second reason is that without having actually been there, it's hard indeed to be certain that the man is the big dummy he sounds like he is.


I've also heard things that lead me to believe that outside of his idiotic political notions, he's a good-hearted, decent human being. Who probably does more good in the world than bad. On balance.

I could be wrong though, in my assessment that he's no big threat. He's going to have to answer for instance, for the behavior of those he may have led astray i.e., those weak-minded, gun-toting maniacs that came out of the woodwork like termites and turned his beef with the BLM into a potential bloodbath. They see him as this big American hero. Those types have been known to kill people at the drop of a hat. Since the world is loaded with people like that, it behooves Mr. Bundy, and all of us, to watch what we say.

Oops, another thread hijacked by the God Bless King Obama boy!

Fiannan
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Re: Can revelations or promptings ever be misunderstood?

Post by Fiannan »

Really. As in the Sovereign Citizens movement, Newtown, Columbine, that crazy guy with the clown wig in Denver, that guy who flew his plane into the IRS building in Austin, the guy who killed Dr. Tiller, etc. etc. etc. You better believe somebody could have been killed by some lunatic at Bunkerville.
You have a weird way of lumping everyone together, don't you?

Just curious though, how many of the cowboys who showed up to support Clive Bundy were on psychoactive medications?

And another thing, when 40 - 50% of all cops are abusers of anabolic steroids, and many have low IQs and, according to many sources a huge percentage are sociopaths, I would be far more scared around those types of people than a group of cowboys.

SamFisher
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Re: Can revelations or promptings ever be misunderstood?

Post by SamFisher »

Kingdom of ZION wrote:
SamFisher wrote:Nope. True revelation is never misunderstood by the receiver.

With this kind of statement, I think you might have never received such?!?!?! :-o :p
Yes! On a personal level for my family. It's an incredible, indescribable, joyous, life-changing, testimony building experience.

a_member
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Re: Can revelations or promptings ever be misunderstood?

Post by a_member »

inquirringmind wrote:
Maybe you didn't understand the OP, but that wasn't the question I asked.

The question I asked was whether a revelation or prompting could ever be misunderstood, or misinterpreted by the recipent.
Sorry I wasn't more clear -- the Bundy example is something I presented to expand on your question "Would he ever do anything like this?", rather than the original topic. Hence the question about whether God would prompt someone to do something that's technically illegal. I get that the original question was about misinterpretation. When we start getting into these areas where someone feels prompted to do something that might on its face be immoral or illegal, then that's interesting moral ground worth exploring IMO. I think there's crossover too with the misinterpretation question, namely if you think God is prompting you to do something immoral and/or illegal, should that always be a red flag or is the merit to those prompting?

As per folks who hung out w/Bundy and later went off the deep end, there's this couple:

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2014/jun/09/look/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I post this with some trepidation; I don't think they're indicative of all gun-rights activists or anyone else at the Bundy ranch during the standoff. However, I do think it's true that "hot" situations tend to attract those who are drawn to violence for various reasons.

inquirringmind
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Re: Can revelations or promptings ever be misunderstood?

Post by inquirringmind »

KMCopeland wrote:
tmac wrote:
Was the order to shoot considered divinely given?
That's the age-old question. And by whom was any such divine direction given? But God would never do anything like that right? The Old Testament is full of examples that God would simply never do anything like that, right?
The Old Testament is full of examples of extremely unrighteous behaviour. I have no problem believing God had nothing to do with any of it. Likewise Mountain Meadows. I don't care who claims God told them to do it. I don't believe it.
For the purposes of this discussion. let's assume that the Bible (Old and New Testament), the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price are all inspired by God.

The only evidence I've seen here that a genuine revelation or prompting can be misunderstood, or misinterpreted by the recipient is what I noticed in D&C 8&9 (if I understand what's being said correctly.)
a_member wrote:I think Jonah's story is instructive. He is told to go to Nineveh and prophesy their destruction unless they repent. Then, they do repent and Jonah gets a bit bent out of shape about it. I think he misunderstood the difference between prophecy and prediction, namely that prophecy isn't about telling people what will happen, it's about giving them a chance to choose a better path and the desired outcome is to avoid the bad things by repenting and coming to Christ (hence why the spirit of prophecy is the testimony of Jesus). Prophecy is only one aspect of "promptings", but I think his story demonstrates succinctly one of the many ways in which we can misunderstand revelation/promptings.
Thank you.

Jonah does seem to have been told to tell the Ninevites only that their city would be destroyed within 40 days, but even if that's all he said, they and their king seem to have interpreted the prophecy as conditional (believing that their repentance could make a difference), and Jonah (who seems to have hated them, and wanted to see them wiped out) seems to have feared it was conditional from the beggining, so I'm not sure anyone misunderstood or misinterpreted anything here.

Do any other scriptural examples come to mind?
Last edited by inquirringmind on August 5th, 2014, 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

inquirringmind
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Re: Can revelations or promptings ever be misunderstood?

Post by inquirringmind »

BrianM wrote:
inquirringmind wrote:
BrianM wrote:"Can revelations or promptings ever be misunderstood?"
Yes.
How do you know that?
Is there anything in the standard works to support that statement?
From experience.
Could you elaborate a little?

And do you know of any examples of such a thing happening to a Biblical prophet, or a Book of Mormon prophet, or Joseph Smith Jr., or his father?

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Thinker
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Re: Can revelations or promptings ever be misunderstood?

Post by Thinker »

Here's an example...

I felt the spirit about an ex... and I was/am married with kids. I had always acted on spiritual promptings in the past, yet it didn't seem that God would have me leave my family for an ex.
This is when I realized that promptings of the spirit are not detailed instruction on what to do, but rather a pointer as to remind us that "God is love" as we resonate with an idea or person we care about.

We have brains of course... and our brains (as complex and partly mysterious as they are subconsciously) fill in the gaps all of the time.
Sometimes those filling in of the gaps is right, other times it's wrong - hind sight is 20-20.
There are essentially 3 aspects of spirituality... study it out, pray & do... (like wizard of oz... brain, heart & courage)
The spirit felt is always felt within: "the kingdom (realm/experience) of God is within you."
Feeling a spiritual prompting is often clear, but how it's understood after being translated into language, thought, feeling and action - is not so clear, and since we are NOT all-knowing, but are works in progress, we tend to misunderstand revelations, sometimes being colored by desire or fear, etc. This is why psychology (study of your soul) is important, as Jesus repeatedly taught.

As far as teachings in the church... It's become pretty set in stone, hasn't it? Shame. If something was misunderstood (which IMO, a lot is!)... who has the guts to explore, discover and point it out, especially when all of the others in the clan are shunning anybody for questioning "authorities"? Imagine if they did this in the medical field... we'd never have progressed & would still be doing stupid things like blood letting when people were sick.

djinwa
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Re: Can revelations or promptings ever be misunderstood?

Post by djinwa »

It is amazing to me that we have to spend so much time trying to interpret what Heavenly Father is telling us.

Why would He make it so difficult? I don't parent that way. If my kids aren't sure what I mean, I speak directly to them. I don't hide somewhere and speak through messengers, who might also misinterpret what I'm saying as so many prophets have.

I'm not even sure when you can say you have revelation. I mean, if you say it was revelation when it turns out to be right, how is that different than someone who isn't even trying to get it? Even atheists get things right quite often.

As for Bundy, he isn't my favorite guy, but amazingly, folks on a liberty board find him to be more of a threat than our federal government, which is forever expanding, spending us into oblivion, and creating more and more enemies around the world. I welcome any 'nutcase' who questions the radical extremism of our government. We need a counterbalance to the propaganda going on in government schools and by government-loving media.

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Thinker
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Re: Can revelations or promptings ever be misunderstood?

Post by Thinker »

Djinwa,

Good points about comparing God's communication with parents.' I'll be trying to figure out more about God (& objective truth) my entire life & beyond. How I interpret God now is from various perspectives.

It is believed that, "The only true variable in the Universe is consciousness. As the consciousness shifts, so do the variables."

God, the Father/Mother, may be considered in 2nd point of view in addressing God in prayer (you/thou). Jesus taught, "the kingdom (realm/experience) of God is within you." (Where else is your experience of God felt?). "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?" That's first person. Then there's 3rd person..."Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."

It's all in perspective. We filter everything, so the more we understand ourselves (desires, fears, etc), and how we relate with others, the more we'll understand spiritual guidance, IMO.

There are many times when my kids don't understand, or misunderstand my intentions, but I remind them I've experienced & learned more than they have, so they'll have to trust me. Similarly (but much more personally), after studying it out & doing what I can, I trust in higher guidance.

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Re: Can revelations or promptings ever be misunderstood?

Post by Joe Fabiano »

It seems to me the man who stated anyone who received revelation from God would know it was true and would not be confused as to where it came from, is a person that has truly received revelation from God. This man knowing the feeling of love, knowledge, and understanding that spoke not to his ears but to his mind and heart, could not imagine anyone being unsure of the validity and source of that type of revelation.
In contrast the person that called himself a heretic to believers stated that even Joseph Smith could not have been sure if he received information from God or Satan.
Most members of the Church of Jesus Christ of latter Day Saints understand that revelation from God is the basis of our Christian and Judeo religions. These churches would not have existed without revelation from God. Without revelation we would have no scriptures to learn about our Father in heaven.
People receive communication from God and Satan. Communication from God comes with love and power. Brigham Young had the best answer for the question of doubt about the validity of revelation when he Stated “ Don’t take my word for what I reveled to you, ask God if it is true or not.” That is the essence of what is stated in the 5th Chapter of Book of James in the Bible. We should all follow that admonition and open communication through the Holy Ghost with God. It will certainly open us up to light and truth and help improve our character and quality of life.

inquirringmind
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Re: Can revelations or promptings ever be misunderstood?

Post by inquirringmind »

I was just reading 1 Samuel 3 (and this passage seemed to come to me from out of nowhere the other day, when I hadn't read or thought about it in years.)

1 And the child Samuel ministered unto the Lord before Eli. And the word of the Lord was precious in those days; there was no open vision.

2 And it came to pass at that time, when Eli was laid down in his place, and his eyes began to wax dim, that he could not see;

3 And ere the lamp of God went out in the temple of the Lord, where the ark of God was, and Samuel was laid down to sleep.

4 That the Lord called Samuel; and he answered, Here am I.

5 And he ran unto Eli, and said, Here am I; for thou calledst me. And he said, I called not; lie down again. And he went and lay down.

6 And the Lord called yet again, Samuel. And Samuel arose and went to Eli, and said, Here am I; for thou didst call me. And he answered, I called not, my son; lie down again.

7 Now Samuel did not yet know the Lord, neither was the word of the Lord ye revealed unto him.

8 And the Lord called Samuel again the third time. And he arose and went to Eli, and said, Here am I; for thou didst call me. And Eli perceived that the Lord had called the child.

9 Therefore Eli said unto Samuel, Go, lie down; and it shall be, if he call thee, that thou shalt say, Speak, Lord; for thy servant heareth. So Samuel went and lay down in his place.

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