I left my blog url so they can contact me if they wish--if it matters.King Benjamin must be rolling over in his grave!
They're just talking about the signs, though - attempting to say in a nice, cute way, "Don't steal our signs."Fiannan wrote:I really hate the snide remark about "Bob" liking the autumn weather.
I just pasted it on my son's facebook page. He should have protestors out there in no time at all. ;)coachmarc wrote:Way to go, Provo City Council--whited sepulchres!
http://provomayor.com/2013/10/16/have-you-seen-bob/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I left a comment. Not sure the mods will approve it. We'll see.
I left my blog url so they can contact me if they wish--if it matters.King Benjamin must be rolling over in his grave!
And I guess you can tell by looking which ones are professional's right? And you DO give to all the others, right?kathyn wrote:The problem I see is that a lot of these panhandlers are professional; they stake out their corners each day and they are on almost every corner wherever a shopping area is close by.
20 And behold, even at this time, ye have been calling on his name, and begging for a remission of your sins. And has he suffered that ye have begged in vain? Nay; he has poured out his Spirit upon you, and has caused that your hearts should be filled with joy, and has caused that your mouths should be stopped that ye could not find utterance, so exceedingly great was your joy.
21 And now, if God, who has created you, on whom you are dependent for your lives and for all that ye have and are, doth grant unto you whatsoever ye ask that is right, in faith, believing that ye shall receive, O then, how ye ought to impart of the substance that ye have one to another.
22 And if ye judge the man who putteth up his petition to you for your substance that he perish not, and condemn him, how much more just will be your condemnation for withholding your substance, which doth not belong to you but to God, to whom also your life belongeth; and yet ye put up no petition, nor repent of the thing which thou hast done.
23 I say unto you, wo be unto that man, for his substance shall perish with him; and now, I say these things unto those who are rich as pertaining to the things of this world.
The signs are put out to look like real men, so making a comment about "Bob" is mocking people who are poor.A Random Phrase wrote:They're just talking about the signs, though - attempting to say in a nice, cute way, "Don't steal our signs."Fiannan wrote:I really hate the snide remark about "Bob" liking the autumn weather.
In my own personal belief I can fulfill this by either buying food for them or donating to fast offerings or other charities. I too believe the good lord gave us common sense to excercise as well.BringerOfJoy wrote:And I guess you can tell by looking which ones are professional's right? And you DO give to all the others, right?kathyn wrote:The problem I see is that a lot of these panhandlers are professional; they stake out their corners each day and they are on almost every corner wherever a shopping area is close by.
Mosiah 4:
20 And behold, even at this time, ye have been calling on his name, and begging for a remission of your sins. And has he suffered that ye have begged in vain? Nay; he has poured out his Spirit upon you, and has caused that your hearts should be filled with joy, and has caused that your mouths should be stopped that ye could not find utterance, so exceedingly great was your joy.
21 And now, if God, who has created you, on whom you are dependent for your lives and for all that ye have and are, doth grant unto you whatsoever ye ask that is right, in faith, believing that ye shall receive, O then, how ye ought to impart of the substance that ye have one to another.
22 And if ye judge the man who putteth up his petition to you for your substance that he perish not, and condemn him, how much more just will be your condemnation for withholding your substance, which doth not belong to you but to God, to whom also your life belongeth; and yet ye put up no petition, nor repent of the thing which thou hast done.
23 I say unto you, wo be unto that man, for his substance shall perish with him; and now, I say these things unto those who are rich as pertaining to the things of this world.
It's the real deal. You can visit the Mayor's Facebook page where a discussion is ongoing and in which I have participated.Stella Solaris wrote:So this is legit? Not one of those spoofs, like The Onion prints??
I am sure there were career panhandlers in Jerusalem and in Zarahemla. King Benjamin made no distinction regarding them.kathyn wrote:The problem I see is that a lot of these panhandlers are professional; they stake out their corners each day and they are on almost every corner wherever a shopping area is close by.
I think Provo City could have handled this better. There are many prodigal sons and daughters. I recently saw a video, which I think BrentL shared. I can't find it, but I think it takes place in the Provo area and it's about these people who have nowhere to go and they need help.“Indolent and unworthy the beggar may be—but that is not your concern: It is better, said Joseph Smith, to feed ten impostors than to run the risk of turning away one honest petition.”
― Hugh Nibley, Approaching Zion
Does Nibley source this Joseph quote?coachmarc wrote:..."It is better, said Joseph Smith, to feed ten impostors than to run the risk of turning away one honest petition.”
― Hugh Nibley, Approaching Zion
Not that I've found...yet. Definitely worth researching.ajax wrote:Does Nibley source this Joseph quote?coachmarc wrote:..."It is better, said Joseph Smith, to feed ten impostors than to run the risk of turning away one honest petition.”
― Hugh Nibley, Approaching Zion
I like it, but I've never been able to find it. All that means is I'm probably not looking hard enough.
My thgought too., more regulations... I guess they can get out of their car still, :ymsick:jnjnelson wrote:The most important discussion here should be about whether this type of prohibition is within the proper role of government or not. Every time I see government action, I ask this question: How does this protect freedom and liberty? It isn't about caring for the poor and homeless, its about restricting the freedom of panhandlers and those who might contribute to panhandlers. Can someone please explain to me how this protects freedom and liberty? If this government action destroys more freedom and liberty than it protects, it is clearly outside the proper role of government.
I don't think the role of government is to protect freedom and liberty. I think the role of government is to minimize the negative effects of a people who cannot govern themselves. Government is force. It will always be misused. No matter what system of government human beings come up with, it is going fail eventually, because the fact that a need for government exists means that people have not yet come to the point where they don't need force. As long as the means for force exists it is because people believe they need to use force on others.jnjnelson wrote:The most important discussion here should be about whether this type of prohibition is within the proper role of government or not. Every time I see government action, I ask this question: How does this protect freedom and liberty? It isn't about caring for the poor and homeless, its about restricting the freedom of panhandlers and those who might contribute to panhandlers. Can someone please explain to me how this protects freedom and liberty? If this government action destroys more freedom and liberty than it protects, it is clearly outside the proper role of government.
So apparently the government is spending money documenting panhandlers? Does anyone else see a problem with this?embryopocket wrote:I posted something about it on facebook and one of my friends that lives in Provo wrote an email to the Mayor. Here is their conversation:
On Oct 16, 2013 3:32 PM, "John Curtis" <[email protected]> wrote:
M------,
I appreciate your concern for the homeless. I can assure you of two things. First, our panhandlers are not homeless and second, a tremendous effort goes into caring for the homeless in our community. I don’t say this casually. No small amount of time has gone into documenting who is panhandling and what are their true conditions and at the same time how do we truly help our homeless.
For those who are interested in helping our homeless there are many better ways than stopping in traffic to hand some money to a panhandler.
John Curtis
From: ------------
Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2013 3:26 PM
To: John Curtis
Subject: Don't feed the homeless... A concerned citizen
It saddens me that Provo city is more then willing to stop people from helping out the homeless. Especially those who live on the corners on center street and university. I understand wanting to keep traffic to a minimum especially on that corner. I drive through there everyday and it can get very very frustrating (especially with out a turn signal there) but I feel as if you are just wanting to get rid of the image of homelessness in your town. The thing that makes me sick is that the city had not provided anywhere for these wayfaring souls to go. There are NO homeless shelters being provided for these people here in Provo, in fact there are no homeless shelters anywhere near Provo. I've searched. As a community we are supposed to help out our fellow man. So why not figure out a home that these poor people can go to. Maybe along the way provide opportunities to obtain jobs, or something. Because honestly seeing those signs up just makes me hate living in Provo even more.
M------
This statement is rather frightening.embryopocket wrote:No small amount of time has gone into documenting who is panhandling
I see your point.Fiannan wrote:The signs are put out to look like real men, so making a comment about "Bob" is mocking people who are poor.A Random Phrase wrote:They're just talking about the signs, though - attempting to say in a nice, cute way, "Don't steal our signs."Fiannan wrote:I really hate the snide remark about "Bob" liking the autumn weather.
..."It is better, said Joseph Smith, to feed ten impostors than to run the risk of turning away one honest petition.”
― Hugh Nibley, Approaching Zion
Sadly (and disappointingly), Nibley does not give a footnote or source for that quote. The nearest I could find from an original source isn't Joseph Smith, but Joseph F. Smith.Ajax wrote:Does Nibley source this Joseph quote?
But Brigham said something very similar, so the original quote very well may have come from Joseph Smith.Joseph F. Smith wrote:“I have seen men go away from my door with good bread and butter in their hands (good enough for any king to eat, for my folks make good bread and good butter, as good as I ever ate on earth) and when out of the gate they have thrown it into the street. It was not food they wanted. They wanted money. For what? That they might go to some gambling [hall] or to some drinking saloon. Of course they are responsible for that. We can only judge by appearances and by the promptings of the good spirit within us; and it is better to give to a dozen that are unworthy than to turn away empty one worthy person.” (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph F. Smith, Pr/RS Manual, p. 194)
Brigham Young wrote:Suppose that in this community there are ten beggars who beg from door to door for something to eat, and that nine of them are impostors who beg to escape work….[What is your choice?] To give food to the ten,…or to repulse the ten because you don’t know which is the worthy one? You will all say, administer charitable gifts to the ten, rather than turn away the only truly worthy ….person among them. If you do this, it will make no difference in your blessings, whether you administer to worthy or unworthy persons, inasmuch as you give alms with a single eye to assist the truly needy.” Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:12as quoted in John A. Widtsoe, ed., Discourses of Brigham Young (Salt Lake: Deseret Book Company, 1941), p. 274.
