Is Supporting Socialism Sinning Against the Gospel

[liberty]

At 3rd Nephi 16:10 the Lord warns the Gentiles that if they sin against the Gospel it would be taken from them.

The question is - Is supporting Socialism sinning against the Gospel?

HofL

[Elizabeth]

Yes.

[LesliePOV]

As with many things... knowingly more so than if unknowingly of course.

Plus I suppose you would have to distinguish if your support is active and knowing (commission) versus tacit and knowing (omission).

[Dave62]

Yes, to the same extent that supporting its evil twin, Capitalism is also sinful. The Lord is a jealous God and insists that His children are faithful to Him only.

[mes5464]

Yes. Several of our modern prophets equated socialism to theft.

Dave,

I believe that capitalism is sinful. The very name comes from the Communist Manifesto or that movement at least.
Based on the comments made by the brethren, what we should be supporting is free markets.

[RaVaN]

Personally, I have mixed feelings on the subject. At what point are you actively supporting Socialism? If you pay your taxes...I mean any taxes in this day and age you are actively supporting socialism, whether those taxes are spent propping up socialist countries, the public school system, healthcare, welfare, unemployment...and so forth. Is paying your taxes supporting Socialism? I think it is.

In this day and age, if you vote for the lesser of the two evils out there you once again are supporting socialism...doesn't matter if it is republican or democrat since in almost all cases...they are progressive socialists and an evil choice is an evil choice and by voting you are saying that the system works regardless who wins.

Socialism should be defined first. What is it? My definition is that is it the ideal that you can force moral behavior and it is a lie. It opposite is free choice moral behavior and this is a Law of God. The truth of the matter is that Socialism gives the appearance of forced moral behavior. A good example is a speed limit sign. Placed for the "good" of all people, yet few follow the rules even after being caught and punished. You can't force good behavior on all people. Now, if you teach people correct principles and allow the moral behavior to be a choice...the same people will ignore the correct principle with the same accidents and the same people will follow the correct principle which is DRIVE SAFELY...but not be limited by some arbitrary number in the cases of emergency and suchlike.

Anyhow, boils down to Law of God and Law of Evil...but the fact is YOU SUPPORT SOCIALISM if you follow the laws of the Land as they stand today. This isn't a cry to stop following the laws of the land however(though I ponder that at times)...just pointing out how difficult a thing it is to follow the Plan of God while being immersed in Babylon and every single person here using a cellphone/ computer is guilty of living in Babylon. And it is just getting worse not better. Within the United States, the drive towards Socialism has been staggering in the past two decades. The only time we have ever been closer to losing our complete liberty was during the reign of FDR, though it had begun a bit before then.

Anyhow, I have mixed feelings about whether it is sinning against the Gospel or not. I do believe that we will be judged for supporting evil...which is what we do every day.


2 Nephi 2:

"1 And now, Jacob, I speak unto you: Thou art my firstborn in the days of my tribulation in the wilderness. And behold, in thy childhood thou hast suffered afflictions and much sorrow, because of the rudeness of thy brethren.

2 Nevertheless, Jacob, my firstborn in the wilderness, thou knowest the greatness of God; and he shall consecrate thine afflictions for thy gain.

3 Wherefore, thy soul shall be blessed, and thou shalt dwell safely with thy brother, Nephi; and thy days shall be spent in the service of thy God. Wherefore, I know that thou art redeemed, because of the righteousness of thy Redeemer; for thou hast beheld that in the fulness of time he cometh to bring salvation unto men.

4 And thou hast beheld in thy youth his glory; wherefore, thou art blessed even as they unto whom he shall minister in the flesh; for the Spirit is the same, yesterday, today, and forever. And the way is prepared from the fall of man, and salvation is free.

5 And men are instructed sufficiently that they know good from evil. And the law is given unto men. And by the law no flesh is justified; or, by the law men are cut off. Yea, by the temporal law they were cut off; and also, by the spiritual law they perish from that which is good, and become miserable forever.

6 Wherefore, redemption cometh in and through the Holy Messiah; for he is full of grace and truth.

7 Behold, he offereth himself a sacrifice for sin, to answer the ends of the law, unto all those who have a broken heart and a contrite spirit; and unto none else can the ends of the law be answered.

8 Wherefore, how great the importance to make these things known unto the inhabitants of the earth, that they may know that there is no flesh that can dwell in the presence of God, save it be through the merits, and mercy, and grace of the Holy Messiah, who layeth down his life according to the flesh, and taketh it again by the power of the Spirit, that he may bring to pass the resurrection of the dead, being the first that should rise.

9 Wherefore, he is the firstfruits unto God, inasmuch as he shall make intercession for all the children of men; and they that believe in him shall be saved.

10 And because of the intercession for all, all men come unto God; wherefore, they stand in the presence of him, to be judged of him according to the truth and holiness which is in him. Wherefore, the ends of the law which the Holy One hath given, unto the inflicting of the punishment which is affixed, which punishment that is affixed is in opposition to that of the happiness which is affixed, to answer the ends of the atonement—

11 For it must needs be, that there is an opposition in all things. If not so, my firstborn in the wilderness, righteousness could not be brought to pass, neither wickedness, neither holiness nor misery, neither good nor bad. Wherefore, all things must needs be a compound in one; wherefore, if it should be one body it must needs remain as dead, having no life neither death, nor corruption nor incorruption, happiness nor misery, neither sense nor insensibility.

12 Wherefore, it must needs have been created for a thing of naught; wherefore there would have been no purpose in the end of its creation. Wherefore, this thing must needs destroy the wisdom of God and his eternal purposes, and also the power, and the mercy, and the justice of God.

13 And if ye shall say there is no law, ye shall also say there is no sin. If ye shall say there is no sin, ye shall also say there is no righteousness. And if there be no righteousness there be no happiness. And if there be no righteousness nor happiness there be no punishment nor misery. And if these things are not there is no God. And if there is no God we are not, neither the earth; for there could have been no creation of things, neither to act nor to be acted upon; wherefore, all things must have vanished away.

14 And now, my sons, I speak unto you these things for your profit and learning; for there is a God, and he hath created all things, both the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are, both things to act and things to be acted upon.

15 And to bring about his eternal purposes in the end of man, after he had created our first parents, and the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and in fine, all things which are created, it must needs be that there was an opposition; even the forbidden fruit in opposition to the tree of life; the one being sweet and the other bitter.

16 Wherefore, the Lord God gave unto man that he should act for himself. Wherefore, man could not act for himself save it should be that he was enticed by the one or the other.

17 And I, Lehi, according to the things which I have read, must needs suppose that an angel of God, according to that which is written, had fallen from heaven; wherefore, he became a devil, having sought that which was evil before God.

18 And because he had fallen from heaven, and had become miserable forever, he sought also the misery of all mankind. Wherefore, he said unto Eve, yea, even that old serpent, who is the devil, who is the father of all lies, wherefore he said: Partake of the forbidden fruit, and ye shall not die, but ye shall be as God, knowing good and evil.

19 And after Adam and Eve had partaken of the forbidden fruit they were driven out of the garden of Eden, to till the earth.

20 And they have brought forth children; yea, even the family of all the earth.

21 And the days of the children of men were prolonged, according to the will of God, that they might repent while in the flesh; wherefore, their state became a state of probation, and their time was lengthened, according to the commandments which the Lord God gave unto the children of men. For he gave commandment that all men must repent; for he showed unto all men that they were lost, because of the transgression of their parents.

22 And now, behold, if Adam had not transgressed he would not have fallen, but he would have remained in the garden of Eden. And all things which were created must have remained in the same state in which they were after they were created; and they must have remained forever, and had no end.

23 And they would have had no children; wherefore they would have remained in a state of innocence, having no joy, for they knew no misery; doing no good, for they knew no sin.

24 But behold, all things have been done in the wisdom of him who knoweth all things.

25 Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy.

26 And the Messiah cometh in the fulness of time, that he may redeem the children of men from the fall. And because that they are redeemed from the fall they have become free forever, knowing good from evil; to act for themselves and not to be acted upon, save it be by the punishment of the law at the great and last day, according to the commandments which God hath given.

27 Wherefore, men are free according to the flesh; and all things are given them which are expedient unto man. And they are free to choose liberty and eternal life, through the great Mediator of all men, or to choose captivity and death, according to the captivity and power of the devil; for he seeketh that all men might be miserable like unto himself.

28 And now, my sons, I would that ye should look to the great Mediator, and hearken unto his great commandments; and be faithful unto his words, and choose eternal life, according to the will of his Holy Spirit;

29 And not choose eternal death, according to the will of the flesh and the evil which is therein, which giveth the spirit of the devil power to captivate, to bring you down to hell, that he may reign over you in his own kingdom.

30 I have spoken these few words unto you all, my sons, in the last days of my probation; and I have chosen the good part, according to the words of the prophet. And I have none other object save it be the everlasting welfare of your souls. Amen."


1 Samuel 8:

"1 And it came to pass, when Samuel was old, that he made his sons judges over Israel.

2 Now the name of his firstborn was Joel; and the name of his second, Abiah: they were judges in Beer-sheba.

3 And his sons walked not in his ways, but turned aside after lucre, and took bribes, and perverted judgment.

4 Then all the elders of Israel gathered themselves together, and came to Samuel unto Ramah,

5 And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations.

6 ¶But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the Lord.

7 And the Lord said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.

8 According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even unto this day, wherewith they have forsaken me, and served other gods, so do they also unto thee.

9 Now therefore hearken unto their voice: howbeit yet protest solemnly unto them, and shew them the manner of the king that shall reign over them.

10 ¶And Samuel told all the words of the Lord unto the people that asked of him a king.

11 And he said, This will be the manner of the king that shall reign over you: He will take your sons, and appoint them for himself, for his chariots, and to be his horsemen; and some shall run before his chariots.

12 And he will appoint him captains over thousands, and captains over fifties; and will set them to ear his ground, and to reap his harvest, and to make his instruments of war, and instruments of his chariots.

13 And he will take your daughters to be confectionaries, and to be cooks, and to be bakers.

14 And he will take your fields, and your vineyards, and your oliveyards, even the best of them, and give them to his servants.

15 And he will take the tenth of your seed, and of your vineyards, and give to his officers, and to his servants.

16 And he will take your menservants, and your maidservants, and your goodliest young men, and your asses, and put them to his work.

17 He will take the tenth of your sheep: and ye shall be his servants.

18 And ye shall cry out in that day because of your king which ye shall have chosen you; and the Lord will not hear you in that day.

19 ¶Nevertheless the people refused to obey the voice of Samuel; and they said, Nay; but we will have a king over us;

20 That we also may be like all the nations; and that our king may judge us, and go out before us, and fight our battles.

21 And Samuel heard all the words of the people, and he rehearsed them in the ears of the Lord.

22 And the Lord said to Samuel, Hearken unto their voice, and make them a king. And Samuel said unto the men of Israel, Go ye every man unto his city."


Edited to add those two passages from the Book of Mormon and the Old Testament

[Cowboy]

A 1/3 of the host of Heaven did not think so

[dauser]

Thou shalt not covet...

Thou shalt not steal...

Thou shalt not exercise unrighteous dominion and have government do your stealing for you.

Thou shalt not vote for Satan's plan...

[Original_Intent]

Yes, to the same extent that supporting its evil twin, Capitalism is also sinful. The Lord is a jealous God and insists that His children are faithful to Him only.

No, not to the same extent.

The flavor of capitalism that we have today, crony capitalism, I concur that it is quite evil as well.

Free Market Capitalism, or Laissez-Faire Capitalism, while still not a perfect system, is at least a terrestrial economic system.

I would say socialism and crony capitalism are telestial or worse.

[chase]

Here's the thing. If you embrace free market capitalism, you will eventually be oppressed by corporate tyrants. If you embrace socialist or communist ideals, you will eventually be oppressed by government tyrants. Your choice. Equally as bad.

[Darren]

The question would best be asked, are we for the establishment of Zion? Being for something good is the only productive way to be.
Instead of being against Socialism which is unproductive, as you can only crowd out socialism by growing Zion.

It is sin to not be pursuing good.

God Bless,
Darren

[Riley Corvus]

Keep in mind that the Lord already gave us an economic system, it's called United Order and Consecration. Socialism is one of Satan's many rip-offs of this economic system. It's based off the idea of having "all things in common", something the Lord commands us to do, but it's being used by the government to make slaves out of us.

I think it is a sin to promote socialism, but I don't think that's the first thing the Lord will ask us when we're judged, especially if we sincerely believed socialism would help us have all things in common.

[marc]

Here's the thing. If you embrace free market capitalism, you will eventually be oppressed by corporate tyrants. If you embrace socialist or communist ideals, you will eventually be oppressed by government tyrants. Your choice. Equally as bad.

Agreed. You can buy anything in this world with money. Money is a worldly concept, IMO--a means of exchange, yes, but a worldly one, which results in debt and bondage. In Zion, all things are common. You can "buy" milk and honey without money and without price.

[deep water]

If we are told to flee from Babylon, and if Babylon is the world, its system of governments, its system of finance, its system of goods. And we have chosen to stay and embrace instead of flee, the answer to your question should be evident. Somewhere we get the feeling that, all is well in what we think of as Zion. If the truth was known, we would repent in sackcloth and ashes, the scriptures tell us.

[freedomforall]

Keep in mind that the Lord already gave us an economic system, it's called United Order and Consecration. Socialism is one of Satan's many rip-offs of this economic system. It's based off the idea of having "all things in common", something the Lord commands us to do, but it's being used by the government to make slaves out of us.

I think it is a sin to promote socialism, but I don't think that's the first thing the Lord will ask us when we're judged, especially if we sincerely believed socialism would help us have all things in common.

Socialism is:
"Socialism, reduced to its simplest legal and practical expression, means the complete discarding of the institution of private property by transforming it into public property and the division of the resultant income equally and indiscriminately among the entire population." (Encyclopedia Britannica, 1946 ed., Vol. 20, p. 895.)

United Order is:
The United Order
Now as to the United Order, and here I will give the words of the Lord and not my words. The United Order the Lord's program for eliminating the inequalities among men, is based upon the underlying concept that the earth and all things therein belong to the Lord and that men hold earthly possessions as stewards accountable to God.

Socialism and the United Order Compared
Elder Marion G. Romney
Of the Council of the Twelve Apostles
(Marion G. Romney, in Conference Report, Apr. 1966, 95;
or Improvement Era, June 1966, 535)

Comparisons and contrasts: Similarities
The following are similarities: Both (1) deal with production and distribution of goods; (2) aim to promote the well-being of men by eliminating their economic inequalities; (3) envision the elimination of the selfish motives in our private capitalistic industrial system.

Differences
Now the differences:
(1) The cornerstone of the United Order is belief in God and acceptance of him as Lord of the earth and the author of the United Order.
Socialism, wholly materialistic, is founded in the wisdom of men and not of God. Although all socialists may not be atheists, none of them in theory or practice seek the Lord to establish his righteousness.
(2) The United Order is implemented by the voluntary free-will actions of men, evidenced by a consecration of all their property to the Church of God.
One time the Prophet Joseph Smith was asked a question by the brethren about the inventories they were taking. His answer was to the effect, "You don't need to be concerned about the inventories. Unless a man is willing to consecrate everything he has he doesn't come into the United Order." (Documentary History of the Church, Vol. 7, pp. 412­13.) On the other hand, socialism is implemented by external force, the power of the state.
(3) In harmony with church belief, as set forth in the Doctrine and Covenants, "that no government can exist in peace, except such laws are framed and held inviolate as will secure to each individual the free exercise of conscience, the right and control of property" (D&C 134:2), the United Order is operated upon the principle of private ownership and individual management.
God-given agency preserved in United Order

Thus in both implementation and ownership and management of property, the United Order preserves to men their God-given agency, while socialism deprives them of it.
(4) The United Order is nonpolitical.
Socialism is political, both in theory and practice. It is thus exposed to, and riddled by, the corruption that plagues and finally destroys all political governments that undertake to abridge man's agency.
(5) A righteous people is a prerequisite to the United Order.
Socialism argues that it as a system will eliminate the evils of the profit motive.
The United Order exalts the poor and humbles the rich. In the process both are sanctified. The poor, released from the bondage and humiliating limitations of poverty, are enabled as free men to rise to their full potential, both temporally and spiritually. The rich, by consecration and by imparting of their surplus for the benefit of the poor, not by constraint but willingly as an act of free will, evidence that charity for their fellowmen characterized by Mormon as "the pure love of Christ." (Moro. 7:47 [Moroni 7:47].)
Socialism not United Order
No, brethren, socialism is not the United Order. However, notwithstanding my abhorrence of it, I am persuaded that socialism is the wave of the present and of the foreseeable future. It has already taken over or is contending for control in most nations.
"At the end of the year [1964] parties affiliated with the [Socialist] International were in control of the governments of Great Britain, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Israel, and the Malagasy Republic. They had representatives in coalition cabinets in Austria, Belgium, Iceland, Italy, Luxembourg, and Switzerland; constituted the chief opposition in France, India, Japan, the Netherlands, New Zealand and West Germany; and were significant political forces in numerous other countries. Many parties dominant in governments in Africa, Asia, and Latin America announced that their aim was a socialist society." (Encyclopedia Britannica, 1965 Book of the Year, p. 736.)
United States has adopted much socialism
We here in the United States, in converting our government into a social welfare state, have ourselves adopted much of socialism. Specifically, we have to an alarming degree adopted the use of the power of the state in the control and distribution of the fruits of industry. We are on notice, according to the words of the President, that we are going much further, for he is quoted as saying:
"We're going to take all the money we think is unnecessarily being spent and take it from the 'haves' and give it to the 'have nots.' " (1964 Congressional Record, p. 6142, Remarks of the President to a Group of Leaders of Organizations of Senior Citizens in the Fish Room, March 24, 1964.)

Socialism takes: United Order gives
That is the spirit of socialism: We're going to take. The spirit of the United Order is: We're going to give.
We have also gone a long way on he road to public ownership and management of the vital means of production. In both of these areas the free agency of Americans has been greatly abridged. Some argue that we have voluntarily surrendered this power to government. Be this as it may, the fact remains that the loss of freedom with the consent of the enslaved, or even at their request, is nonetheless slavery.
As to the fruits of socialism, we all have our own opinions. I myself have watched its growth in our own country and observed it in operation in many other lands. But I have yet to see or hear of its freeing the hearts of men of selfishness and greed or of its bringing peace, plenty, or freedom. These things it will never bring, nor will it do away with idleness and promote "industry, thrift and self-respect," for it is founded, in theory and in practice, on force, the principle of the evil one.
As to the fruits of the United Order, I suggest you read Moses 7:16­18 and 4 Nephi 2­3 [4 Nephi 1:2­3] , 15­16. If we had time we could review the history, what little we know, of Zion in the days of Enoch and about what happened among the Nephites under those principles of the United Order in the first two centuries following the time of the Savior.

What can we do?
Now what can we do about it?
As I recently reminded my wife of the moratorium on the United Order, which the Lord placed in 1834 (D&C 105:34), that socialism is taking over in the nations and that its expressed aims will surely fail, she spiritedly put to me the question: "Well, then, what would you suggest, that we just sit on our hands in despair and do nothing?" Perhaps similar questions have occurred to you. The answer is, "No, by no means!" We have much to do, and fortunately for us the Lord has definitely prescribed the course we should follow with respect to socialism and the United Order.

Constitution God-inspired
He has told us that in preparation for the restoration of the gospel, he himself established the Constitution of the United States, and he has plainly told us why he established it. I hope I can get this point over to you. He said he established the Constitution to preserve to men their free agency, because the whole gospel of Jesus Christ presupposes man's untrammeled exercise of free agency. Man is in the earth to be tested. The issue as to whether he succeeds or fails will be determined by how he uses his agency. His whole future, through all eternity, is at stake. Abridge man's agency, and the whole purpose of his mortality is thwarted. Without it, the Lord says, there is no existence. (See D&C 93:30.) The Lord so valued our agency that he designed and dictated "the laws and constitution" required to guarantee it.

[Dave62]

I can see that one of the problems in this discussion is terminology. Don't get me started on Americans' use and abuse of certain political nomenclature such as 'liberal' or 'liberalism' (Please don't take offence but I once read an article from a US newspaper that decried those wicked 'liberals with their socialist agenda' :-\ ) That can wait for another day.

So yes, I agree that small "C" capitalism, i.e. small business, small union, and small government, would be the most desirable secular system to support. But that faded away a long time ago and will not return thanks to state sponsored corporate Fascism!

I believe that socialism, no matter how noble its ideals may start, ends in complete corruption. Please don't under-estimate my belief in this when I write the next few lines.

I believe that we have successfully waged a cultural war against Soviet Socialism and all its variants, only to let a very dirty, sinster, nay, satanic version of capitalism to creep in at the back door.

If we hold to the notion that the Book of Mormon is the 'survivalist's latter-day guidebook (and I do) then we will find warning after warning about class distinction based on the ability to manipulate money. All the Nephis, Mormon and Moroni, King Benjamin all say it.

So I pose a couple of questions:
Who are the Lamanites in this picture?
Who are the wicked Nephites and the righteous Nephites?
Has Satan successfully deceived us with the 'red herring' of socialism?
You see socialism is very satanic because it looks good on the outside but is corrupt on the inside. Do we become frightened of 'socialist' terms like equality, social justice, welfare, communal amenity, affirmative action to redress poverty, and then when Zion comes along preaching these terms in all her righteous glory we blanch? Has this been Satan's plan all along? Has he frightened us with socialism and have we backed ourselves into a worse position where we come under Mormon's condemnation? Have we corrupted ourselves with the pursuit of riches.

Two people face the Saviour at the last day: one is an athiest who was angry with society and its oppression of the poor and so in his naivety he decides that the best way to redress this is to pursue a socialist agenda, the other read the Book of Mormon and, while neglecting his duty to the Lord's poor, wasted his stewardship on toys, all the while thinking that Mormon was writing about the Catholics! Now, I ask you; whom will the Saviour judge more harshly?

So in conclusion, please don't mistake me for a socialist sympathiser, I'm not! I just think we are being duped. Anyway, I look forward to some vigorous debate. ;)

[deep water]

Very good Dave: The only difference between Communism (in theory) and the law of consecration, is free agency. In communism, you are forced to be equal, someone has to do the forcing. In the united order you choose to live equal and Christ leads you in that effort. Here in America if we were already taking care of the elderly, their would have been no need for social security. Ect.

[Riley Corvus]

Thank you for that post, freedomfighter, I've never read that particular analysis before. And I guess my input here is useless, since Dave62 summed up what I thought.

The only difference between Communism (in theory) and the law of consecration, is free agency. In communism, you are forced to be equal, someone has to do the forcing. In the united order you choose to live equal and Christ leads you in that effort.

To clarify a bit more on that. In the revelations about United Order, the Lord tells us to keep record of what goes into the storehouse and who's name it's under. If the church were to set up United Order right now, and we all enlisted, and one of us decided to leave the church, he'd take all of his property he put into it, as well as any surplus made off that property.
If the church were living communism, and one of us decided to leave, our property would belong to the church and if anyone were to leave, we wouldn't be able to take anything.
The Lord wants to create a condition in which we help the poor and give up all we have for the building up of Zion on our own accord. It's important for his people to be stewards over their own property because that way, there's always the possibility they could leave and still survive. This way, the Lord knows who his true servants are because they stay with him even when the opportunity to leave is presented.

[freedomforall]

Thank you for that post, freedomfighter, I've never read that particular analysis before. And I guess my input here is useless, since Dave62 summed up what I thought.

The only difference between Communism (in theory) and the law of consecration, is free agency. In communism, you are forced to be equal, someone has to do the forcing. In the united order you choose to live equal and Christ leads you in that effort.

To clarify a bit more on that. In the revelations about United Order, the Lord tells us to keep record of what goes into the storehouse and who's name it's under. If the church were to set up United Order right now, and we all enlisted, and one of us decided to leave the church, he'd take all of his property he put into it, as well as any surplus made off that property.
If the church were living communism, and one of us decided to leave, our property would belong to the church and if anyone were to leave, we wouldn't be able to take anything.
The Lord wants to create a condition in which we help the poor and give up all we have for the building up of Zion on our own accord. It's important for his people to be stewards over their own property because that way, there's always the possibility they could leave and still survive. This way, the Lord knows who his true servants are because they stay with him even when the opportunity to leave is presented.

You're welcome. Here is the whole report from Apr 1966:

http://www.ldsinfobase.net/liberty/MGR_66apr.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[freedomforall]

Scriptures to consider.

D&C 49:20
20 But it is not given that one man should possess that which is above another, wherefore the world lieth in sin

Acts 4:32
32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.

D&C 70:14
14 Nevertheless, in your temporal things you shall be equal, and this not grudgingly, otherwise the abundance of the manifestations of the Spirit shall be withheld.

D&C 78:6 (5–6)
5 That you may be equal in the bonds of heavenly things, yea, and earthly things also, for the obtaining of heavenly things.
6 For if ye are not equal in earthly things ye cannot be equal in obtaining heavenly things;

Covet, Covetousness
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house:................................................... Ex. 20:17 . ( Rom. 7:7 ; Mosiah 13:24 . )
neither shalt thou covet … any thing that is thy neighbour’s:.............................. Deut. 5:21 . ( D&C 19:25 . )
He coveteth greedily all the day:.................................................................. Prov. 21:26 .
he that hateth covetousness shall prolong his days:.......................................... Prov. 28:16 .
they are greedy dogs which can never have enough:.......................................... Isa. 56:11 .
every one is given to covetousness:.............................................................. Jer. 6:13 .
they covet fields, and take them by violence:.................................................. Micah 2:2 .
Woe to him that coveteth an evil covetousness:............................................... Hab. 2:9 .
beware of covetousness:............................................................................ Luke 12:15 . ( Luke 12:15–21 . )
have coveted no man’s silver, or gold, or apparel:............................................ Acts 20:33 .
Thou shalt not covet:................................................................................. Rom. 13:9 .
covet earnestly the best gifts:..................................................................... 1 Cor. 12:31 .
covet to prophesy:.................................................................................... 1 Cor. 14:39 .
covetousness, which is idolatry:................................................................... Col. 3:5 .
nor a cloak of covetousness:........................................................................ 1 Thes. 2:5 .
money … which while some coveted after, they have erred:................................. 1 Tim. 6:10 .
men shall be … covetous:............................................................................ 2 Tim. 3:2 .
Let your conversation be without covetousness:............................................... Heb. 13:5 .
when Laban saw our property … he did lust after it:.......................................... 1 Ne. 3:25 .
go no more after the lusts of your eyes:......................................................... Alma 39:9 .
thou shalt not covet thine own property:........................................................ D&C 19:26 .
eyes are full of greediness:......................................................................... D&C 56:17 .
cease to be covetous; learn to impart one to another:....................................... D&C 88:123 .
broken the covenant through covetousness:.................................................... D&C 104:4 . ( D&C 104:52 . )
covet not that which is thy brother’s:............................................................ D&C 136:20 .

Why did FF post all these scriptures? What relevance do they have with regard to Socialism?
Well read this: The case for Book of Mormon socialism

[freedomforall]

I read most of this article, but really could not come away with a simple answer. What is this author saying? Yes or no?

Can a Good Mormon Be a Socialist?

[deep water]

RC: If one ever tasted of the fruit of the united order. To live in loving your neighbor as your self. You or anyone else would never want to leave.
The law of consecration or the united order, is Gods way for man to live. Years ago, I would ponder upon the concept of the united order. I just couldn't see any way that this law could ever work for mankind. Their would always be those who would want more than the others, and those who would be satisfied with less. Joesph Smith tried to bring in this law in the early church. Its success was less than spectacular. I search through all the books and scriptures on the subject and couldn't see how it could ever work. First ; monetary wealth is seen in its own light by every person, its subjective. For me, I live in a farming aria and have two neighbors who are large farmers. When I would try to understand the law. I couldn't see how the law would fit in our relationship. Then one day the spirit opened my eyes and in a instant I could understand what had been so confusing, just moments before. As I looked upon the first farmer, I could fill such a love for him, and the same love being returned to me. Then to see if it worked for all, I looked upon the second farmer and felt of my love for him, as well as his love for me. This love was a love I have never even felt for my wife or children. It was so much more complete and spectacular that for weeks after I would meditate and try to recreate the feeling, so I could fill of its wonder. OH HOW WONDERFUL IS THE LOVE OF GOD. I knew that the law of consecration was not a temporal law. It failed Joseph because you cannot implement a spiritual law on a temporal bases. But if you live a spiritual law. LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF. Then the temporal law automatically follows. WE HAVE NO IDEA WHAT WE ARE MISSING LIVING THE WAY WE LIVE. GODS PLAN IS SO MUCH BETTER THAN MANS PLAN. Think about it: We don't even have one game to teach us how to love one another. All games are based upon: I win you loose. The devils plan. We teach our children his way from the very start. Is their any doubt why we are in the situation we are in. Why God must cleanse the earth, liken to the time of Noah.

[Tribunal]

Socialism is in no way in-line with the Law of Consecration or the United Order or anything that is promoted in the Book of Mormon or by Joseph Smith. One requires tyranny while the other requires freedom. In socialism we are forced into equality while in a consecrated society we have free access to equality because of love and charity.

In a consecrated society there is still competition and capitalism because we each want to do our best for all of our brothers and sisters. Most people confuse crony capitalism with free market capitalism. There is a huge difference!

In a consecrated society we still have our own individual talents and abilities. The beauty of a consecrated society is we respect each other for our individual talents and promote our differences for the benefit of the whole. We don't covet.

So, yes, supporting socialism is a sin.