Lamanites today?

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SouthernMormon
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Lamanites today?

Post by SouthernMormon »

Are all Amerindians alive today descendents of the Lamanites?

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oneClimbs
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Re: Lamanites today?

Post by oneClimbs »

Some are. The vast majority are probably remnants of Jaredite splinter groups.
http://oneclimbs.com/2012/04/02/they-ar ... an-people/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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SouthernMormon
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Re: Lamanites today?

Post by SouthernMormon »

Thank you 5tev3.

liberty
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Re: Lamanites today?

Post by liberty »

I don't believe they are. Take a look at Rod Meldrums research:

http://www.bookofmormonevidence.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Incidentally, I have Mohican ancestors from Connecticut.

HofL

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BroJones
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Re: Lamanites today?

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Rod Meldrum shows that the Algonquin tribes (in general, North America) show the X2 haploid in their DNA, found also in Israel among the Jews (and interestingly, in Finland).
He has said that this is strong evidence for these natives to be Lehites, and I agree.

There is as yet NO such DNA evidence for natives in Mesoamerica, linking them via DNA to Israel.

My wife is part Lehite (she prefers that term to Lamanite). I expect the "part Lehite" temple-goers to be among the "remnant" of Joseph/Lehi that Jesus spoke of (3 Nephi), and the remnant that will build up the New Jerusalem with the 10 tribes. JMHO.

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Thinker
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Re: Lamanites today?

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SouthernMormon wrote:Are all Amerindians alive today descendents of the Lamanites?
We're all children of God & we're all related both genetically and spiritually.
Another reason to love others as ourselves.

liberty
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Re: Lamanites today?

Post by liberty »

God's covenants are with Abraham's seed. Those who enter into these covenants are God's people and are adopted into Abraham's lineage.

HofL

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Sariel
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Re: Lamanites today?

Post by Sariel »

While it is true we can covenant with God, that does not make us the "remnant" spoken of. Like Dr. Jones said, this group has specific prophecies about them. We may be able to assist in work that is assigned to the remnant if we are faithful.

samizdat
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Re: Lamanites today?

Post by samizdat »

There is Lamanite blood found in all of the original tribes, some stronger than in others.

What people should not be doing, is trying to promote one idea to the exclusion of other ideas, like what Meldrum does.

A reading of 3 Nephi 20 and 21 would indicate that the Lamanites spoken of are from south of the border, especially with the types of arms they have.

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Rose Garden
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Re: Lamanites today?

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Sariel wrote:While it is true we can covenant with God, that does not make us the "remnant" spoken of. Like Dr. Jones said, this group has specific prophecies about them. We may be able to assist in work that is assigned to the remnant if we are faithful.
There's a prophecy in the Book of Mormon somewhere in 1 or 2 Nephi that says the righteous gentiles will be adopted into Lehi's family.

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marc
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Post by marc »

Called to Serve wrote:
Sariel wrote:While it is true we can covenant with God, that does not make us the "remnant" spoken of. Like Dr. Jones said, this group has specific prophecies about them. We may be able to assist in work that is assigned to the remnant if we are faithful.
There's a prophecy in the Book of Mormon somewhere in 1 or 2 Nephi that says the righteous gentiles will be adopted into Lehi's family.
Gentiles will be adopted into the house of Israel, yes, but I don't recall it being Lehi's family. I'm pretty sure of it. Please let me know if I'm wrong, though.

deep water
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Re: Lamanites today?

Post by deep water »

JS taught that when you experience the BOFHG, that if you are a gentile, your blood will actually be changed into one of the literal seed. That in some cases ones physical appearance will change enough to be noticeable. That's when you are adopted into the covented lineage. To me the BOM tells us that those who are saved in the last days will be numbered among the literal seed. I don't know if that means that you will live with them, under their protection, or that you will have the same blood as them, and be protected by the HG.

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Rose Garden
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Re: Lamanites today?

Post by Rose Garden »

coachmarc wrote:
Called to Serve wrote:
Sariel wrote:While it is true we can covenant with God, that does not make us the "remnant" spoken of. Like Dr. Jones said, this group has specific prophecies about them. We may be able to assist in work that is assigned to the remnant if we are faithful.
There's a prophecy in the Book of Mormon somewhere in 1 or 2 Nephi that says the righteous gentiles will be adopted into Lehi's family.
Gentiles will be adopted into the house of Israel, yes, but I don't recall it being Lehi's family. I'm pretty sure of it. Please let me know if I'm wrong, though.
It's talking about the Gentiles in this land. Obscure verse somewhere in 2 Nephi, I think. The chapter starts out talking about how the Gentiles are going to reject Christ or something like that and then verse 5ish or so says that the righteous ones will be adopted into Lehi's family. I'll have to try and find it.

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kathyn
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Re: Lamanites today?

Post by kathyn »

My oldest child, my son is of the house of Manassah, while the rest of my children are of Ephraim. He is half-Polynesian. His full-blooded sister....also half Polynesian is from Ephraim. I thought that was interesting. They are both from the tribe of Joseph. I believe that the term "lamanite" has come to refer to the Amerindians of both North and South America.

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Sheol27
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Re: Lamanites today?

Post by Sheol27 »

kathyn wrote:My oldest child, my son is of the house of Manassah, while the rest of my children are of Ephraim. He is half-Polynesian. His full-blooded sister....also half Polynesian is from Ephraim. I thought that was interesting. They are both from the tribe of Joseph. I believe that the term "lamanite" has come to refer to the Amerindians of both North and South America.
Were the Lehites both a mix of Ephraim and Manasseh? My mom is Ephraim and my uncle (her brother ) is Manassah. Their father is from Mexico. Your story is very believable for me.

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marc
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Re: Lamanites today?

Post by marc »

Called to Serve wrote:There's a prophecy in the Book of Mormon somewhere in 1 or 2 Nephi that says the righteous gentiles will be adopted into Lehi's family...

It's talking about the Gentiles in this land. Obscure verse somewhere in 2 Nephi, I think. The chapter starts out talking about how the Gentiles are going to reject Christ or something like that and then verse 5ish or so says that the righteous ones will be adopted into Lehi's family. I'll have to try and find it.
Let's see if I can shed some light. In one passage, Nephi explains to his inquiring brothers about the scattering and gathering of Israel:

I Nephi 22:6 Nevertheless, after they shall be nursed by the Gentiles, and the Lord has lifted up his hand upon the Gentiles and set them up for a standard, and their children have been carried in their arms, and their daughters have been carried upon their shoulders, behold these things of which are spoken are temporal; for thus are the covenants of the Lord with our fathers; and it meaneth us in the days to come, and also all our brethren who are of the house of Israel.

7 And it meaneth that the time cometh that after all the house of Israel have been scattered and confounded, that the Lord God will raise up a mighty nation among the Gentiles, yea, even upon the face of this land; and by them shall our seed be scattered.

8 And after our seed is scattered the Lord God will proceed to do a marvelous work among the Gentiles, which shall be of great worth unto our seed; wherefore, it is likened unto their being nourished by the Gentiles and being carried in their arms and upon their shoulders.

9 And it shall also be of worth unto the Gentiles; and not only unto the Gentiles but unto all the house of Israel, unto the making known of the covenants* of the Father of heaven unto Abraham, saying: In thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.


It was through his grandson, Jacob, that this was fulfilled as Jacob became Israel. Lehi is a small branch of Israel, but that is all. Here's another one from Nephi:

2 Nephi 30:1 And now behold, my beloved brethren, I would speak unto you; for I, Nephi, would not suffer that ye should suppose that ye are more righteous than the Gentiles shall be. For behold, except ye shall keep the commandments of God ye shall all likewise perish; and because of the words which have been spoken ye need not suppose that the Gentiles are utterly destroyed.

2 For behold, I say unto you that as many of the Gentiles as will repent are the covenant* people of the Lord; and as many of the Jews as will not repent shall be cast off; for the Lord covenanteth with none save it be with them that repent and believe in his Son, who is the Holy One of Israel.


Anyway, good luck finding it. :)

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Franktalk
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Re: Lamanites today?

Post by Franktalk »

liberty wrote:God's covenants are with Abraham's seed. Those who enter into these covenants are God's people and are adopted into Abraham's lineage.

HofL
We have to separate out the seed of faith verses the seed of the temporal world.

Rom 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:

So yes we are adopted into father Abraham's lineage. It is faith that gets us there.

jimmy
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Re: Lamanites today?

Post by jimmy »

I am currently living in Cape Breton Nova Scotia and serving as Addiction Recovery group leader on the native reserve here, which is the Mic Mac tribe. After doing some research about them I found out and it is documented that they had their own written language which is ancient Egyptian Hieroglyphics, and their spoken language still has a touch of egyptian in it.

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marc
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Re: Lamanites today?

Post by marc »

jimmy wrote:I am currently living in Cape Breton Nova Scotia and serving as Addiction Recovery group leader on the native reserve here, which is the Mic Mac tribe. After doing some research about them I found out and it is documented that they had their own written language which is ancient Egyptian Hieroglyphics, and their spoken language still has a touch of egyptian in it.
I had to look it up. Thanks for sharing this. I'd love to read about your research!

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AussieOi
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Re: Lamanites today?

Post by AussieOi »

Its all quite problematic, sadly

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AussieOi
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Re: Lamanites today?

Post by AussieOi »

jimmy wrote:I am currently living in Cape Breton Nova Scotia and serving as Addiction Recovery group leader on the native reserve here, which is the Mic Mac tribe. After doing some research about them I found out and it is documented that they had their own written language which is ancient Egyptian Hieroglyphics, and their spoken language still has a touch of egyptian in it.

Please tell me this has nothing to do with the LDS church

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Thinker
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Re: Lamanites today?

Post by Thinker »

AussieOi wrote:Its all quite problematic, sadly
I'm not sure how you define this, but I agree that it's problematic and sad that people think that one's ethnicity affects their righteousness even one fraction of an ounce.

What would be a more interesting discussion however, would be spiritual families united in goals in spiritual battles.
I'm starting to believe more in this.

livy111us
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Re: Lamanites today?

Post by livy111us »

DrJones wrote:Rod Meldrum shows that the Algonquin tribes (in general, North America) show the X2 haploid in their DNA, found also in Israel among the Jews (and interestingly, in Finland).
He has said that this is strong evidence for these natives to be Lehites, and I agree.

There is as yet NO such DNA evidence for natives in Mesoamerica, linking them via DNA to Israel.

My wife is part Lehite (she prefers that term to Lamanite). I expect the "part Lehite" temple-goers to be among the "remnant" of Joseph/Lehi that Jesus spoke of (3 Nephi), and the remnant that will build up the New Jerusalem with the 10 tribes. JMHO.
As you know, there are several problems with the X2a haplotype/BOM connection that LDS geneticists have written on. Here are a few articles which point out these flaws as well as the problems with the conclusions Rod makes. http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publica ... m=1&id=793" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.bmaf.org/node/445" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

While I do not disagree that there are Lamanites in North America, it should also be noted that there are Lamanites in Mesoamerica and South America. This article goes into more detail: http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publica ... m=2&id=805" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Again, Lamanites covered all of North and South America.
The Gospel Doctrine Manual (2012) from Mormon 7 says "1. Mormon exhorts the latter-day descendants of Lehi to repent, believe in Christ, and be baptized.
Read and discuss Mormon 7, which contains Mormon’s words to the latter-day descendants of Lehi. You may want to explain that latter-day descendants of Lehi are found among the people of North, Central, and South America and the Pacific Islands."

Here are a couple of other quotes by past LDS leaders.

"The history of this American continent also gives evidence that the Lamanites have risen up in their anger and vexed the Gentiles. This warfare may not be over. It has been the fault of people in the United States to think that this prophetic saying has reference to the Indians in the United States, but we must remember that there are millions of the 'remnant' in Mexico, Central and South America" (Church History and Modern Revelation 2:127, emphasis mine).

Speaking in conference in October 1921, Elder Andrew Jenson, a member of the staff of the LDS Church's Historian's Office, stated, "We, therefore cast a glance southward into old Mexico and through the great countries beyond -- down through Central America and South America, where there are millions and millions of Lamanites, direct descendants of Father Lehi." (Conference Report, October 1921, p.120, emphasis mine).

As for Israelite DNA in Mesoamerica, yes that has been found as well. There has also been biological evidence of Israelites in Mesoamerica. This is an interesting piece you may like. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SStDH3SCj4Q" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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AussieOi
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Re: Lamanites today?

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Problematic in not a single letter of Egyptian or "reformed' egyptian has ever been found

Or more golden plates.

Or a shred of the existence of the mosaic law being lived.

Or Hebrew culture being somewhere.

and so on.

Never mind the DNA thing showing absolutely no genetic link between native Americans and people from the middle east.

But the old testament is even worse in that regard
I wonder if these things were spiritual stories...maybe happened on another planet, or dimension.

I'm not kidding either. What alternative is there. We can't pretend that one day we will magically find the remains of jaredite and nephite and lamanite culture. Can we?

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marc
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Post by marc »

AussieOi wrote:I'm not kidding either. What alternative is there.
Sounds like you're seeking after signs. Am I reading you right?

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