Do you Believe President Monson is a Prophet of God?

[TZONE]

Oh Fort Nine, that was amusing read .

AGS have you ever been in any leadership before? Elders qorum? Bishopric? Any of the presidencies?

[AGStacker]

Oh Fort Nine, that was amusing read .

AGS have you ever been in any leadership before? Elders qorum? Bishopric? Any of the presidencies?

The closest I've been to the leadership is as a financial clerk which of course isn't a leadership position. The bishop invites the clerks to attend the Sunday morning bishopric meeting. I don't know if this is the norm or not.

So no.

[TZONE]

Oh Fort Nine, that was amusing read .

AGS have you ever been in any leadership before? Elders qorum? Bishopric? Any of the presidencies?

The closest I've been to the leadership is as a financial clerk which of course isn't a leadership position. The bishop invites the clerks to attend the Sunday morning bishopric meeting. I don't know if this is the norm or not.

Probably. I got my first one, I find its nearly impossible to implement anything you have as a great idea. I had a few good ideas to change or do differently but I find that most people won't be onboard. I just bring this up, even if the apostles or prophet tried to change something it would be very hard with getting the other "14" to agree. I actually kind of feel for anyone of them that is trying to do good.

I am starting to understand, "wait upon the Lord". Just throwing this out there. Maybe other wards don't have the same issues. The councilors listen but if they don't all agree with it, there isn't much you can do. I think most the issues come from "common conscent" (though its good and bad)... What would happen if false doctrine was put up for vote and it was voted in? Though it keeps dumb ideas that are spontaneous from being implemeted as well.


Not sure that would be pretty Anyone see these things?

[Rose Garden]

TZONE, that's why the Lord says the leader must lead by persuasion. We sometimes think things are a great idea but if we can't persuade others of it, it might be either that it's not as great an idea as we think or the people aren't ready for it. The leader is the servant of those he leads. Better than trying to implement new ideas is to just listen to the people and give them what they want. Do that and they will learn their own lessons and implement their own ideas. In return, you will get what you want as well.

[jo1952]

Straw man. No one is arguing these things.

As for malls, law firms, etc... do you presume to know the mind of the Lord? Are you wiser than He?

Grinding the faces of the poor? Definitely won't have that perspective after you've served as a financial clerk.

I just became the financial clerk last December. I like all those I serve with. We, the members, do help people out. My bishop told me that he has little oversight when it comes to fast offerings. I think though he'd rather please the stake presidency by "saving" the funds he is a steward over. In time, the stake will take them and then head quarters. Why does it make sense to take from a ward when those funds belong to the area locally? I don't believe a bishop should irresponsibly just give money out especially to those who aren't willing to change or sacrifice but I am sure somewhere within the area boundaries someone can be helped.

If I ever become a bishop I will spend every last cent on helping others whether the person is a member, non member, inactive member etc. I think Salt Lake, where the Church is concerned, shouldn't be worried about the "plight". Rather they should be a mecca for the homeless, needy and broken.

One story, after my parents divorced my father became, largely, inactive. He had his issues and tried very rarely to attend church. He too made a lot of financial mistakes and was struggling financially. Mind you my father joined the Church as a young adult, served a mission and paid probably a good amount of tithes and offerings in his life. He still absolutely believed the Church was true but he was broken. Well, his air conditioning went out in the Arizona desert. He dealt with it for either one or two summers and the bishop of his ward wouldn't help him. Listen I know my dad. He is a descendent of Sicilians who are for the most part insane. (so they say) He is hard to deal with sometimes. Very upfront. Opinionated but if I was that bishop I would not let any member, even nonmember within my area, go without air conditioning granted they actually needed help paying for a new one or to service the old one. Maybe you don't need to buy him a brand new one but isn't some help warranted? Is the bishop being a better steward by saving the monies and sending them back to Salt Lake or by helping those in need.

And if you've never lived in Arizona during the summer, most people would agree that air conditioning is a need.

Wow. This is very mournful to see. Perhaps if he had been the victim of some natural disaster, his Bishop would have helped him out; member or not. This is just wrong. So very, very saddened to see this. SOMETHING should have been done; if nothing else, the Bishop should have brought this to the attention of someone who was willing and/or able to help your father. I think our Savior wept over that.

Much love,

jo

[jo1952]

AGS, it depends where you live. My ward is in a very poor area. They spend over 10-15k/month on "fast offerings" in helping the poor families. They get almost none back. They take from other wards because there are LOTS of poor wards out there with GREAT need. Just because its not in one area doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Though I agree with you. More should be given to the poor.

My bishop talked to me about this and said that wards will give funds to other wards within the same stake. Even then our ward, which takes in roughly $50k per year in fast offerings, doesn't spend probably anything more than a $1k a month. I really don't have an issue with the Church in this regard. I am not saying that we don't help those in need at all but how do we justify our fine sanctuaries? How do some on this forum justify them? Those decisions aren't made from the common member but those who occupy the chief seats. We idolize those in the chief seats so much that we don't question anything about them and in fact when we do we are told that we are "on the road to apostasy". Remember, when those who occupy the chief seats speak "the thinking has been done".

I use to believe this adamantly. This isn't the case anymore. I do think the prophet and apostles can err when it comes to the direction of the Church but I don't think that is a horrible thing. It is only horrible for those who trust them blindly to be led to salvation when only Christ can lead you there.

I know it comes off critical and maybe mean but no man deserves our praise or adoration. Nephi wouldn't allow you to follow him.
He preached against it. Do you think he'd allow us to celebrate his life? If you follow the brethren then you are a disciple of them. If I follow Denver Snuffer then I am a disciple of him. If I follow Moses or Paul or Peter or whomever then I am a disciple of them. It is only when we become true disciples of Christ are we on the correct path.

Amen!!

[freedomforall]

This is like asking if Joseph Smith was a prophet. Had God kept from giving him things to do, things to teach and things to learn...would he then have been a prophet?

This topic goes round and round and round. A prophet is a prophet when speaking as a prophet, moved upon by the Holy Ghost. If God has nothing to say, does a prophet then make up things to say? If God says to a prophet, tell the people to get a food storage, and nobody does it, was or is he a prophet?

Just what do members of the church think President Monson ought to be saying anyway? Do all members have a storage? Do they pray always? Do they feast on the word? Do they strive to keep the commandments? Do they strive to remember Christ "always" as spoken of in the Sacramental prayer? Do they strive to have charity in their hearts? Do they feed and clothe the poor and the hungry.

Again, just what is expected from President Monson that hasn't been said many times before? I believe he is a prophet, when God has something to say.

[TZONE]

Thanks CTT,

freedom, the scriptures state over and over, "those who harden their hearts gets taken away even which they have"... Great comment. We know Hinckley was able to prophesy about the financial collapse and accurately applied it to Joseph in Egypt. Yet how many listened? Probably not a lot.

[Thomas]

Thanks CTT,

freedom, the scriptures state over and over, "those who harden their hearts gets taken away even which they have"... Great comment. We know Hinckley was able to prophesy about the financial collapse and accurately applied it to Joseph in Egypt. Yet how many listened? Probably not a lot.

Yet Hinckley prefaced his comments by saying, He was not giving prophecy. He was not giving us the word of God. He told us, he was not. He gave us his opinion, which turned out to be a good one, but still not the word of God.

[TZONE]

Thanks CTT,

freedom, the scriptures state over and over, "those who harden their hearts gets taken away even which they have"... Great comment. We know Hinckley was able to prophesy about the financial collapse and accurately applied it to Joseph in Egypt. Yet how many listened? Probably not a lot.

Yet Hinckley prefaced his comments by saying, He was not giving prophecy. He was not giving us the word of God. He told us, he was not. He gave us his opinion, which turned out to be a good one, but still not the word of God.

true the first time he said that out of 3 but his words were, "I am not prohesying of years of famine"..

[freedomforall]

Thanks CTT,

freedom, the scriptures state over and over, "those who harden their hearts gets taken away even which they have"... Great comment. We know Hinckley was able to prophesy about the financial collapse and accurately applied it to Joseph in Egypt. Yet how many listened? Probably not a lot.

Doctrine and Covenants 60:3
3 And it shall come to pass, if they are not more faithful unto me, it shall be taken away, even that which they have.

2 Nephi 28:30
30 For behold, thus saith the Lord God: I will give unto the children of men line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little; and blessed are those who hearken unto my precepts, and lend an ear unto my counsel, for they shall learn wisdom; for unto him that receiveth I will give more; and from them that shall say, We have enough, from them shall be taken away even that which they have.

Alma 12:10
10 And therefore, he that will harden his heart, the same receiveth the lesser portion of the word; and he that will not harden his heart, to him is given the greater portion of the word, until it is given unto him to know the mysteries of God until he know them in full.

D&C 50:24
24 That which is of God is light; and he that receiveth light, and continueth in God, receiveth more light; and that light groweth brighter and brighter until the perfect day.

[AussieOi]

This is like asking if Joseph Smith was a prophet. Had God kept from giving him things to do, things to teach and things to learn...would he then have been a prophet?

This topic goes round and round and round. A prophet is a prophet when speaking as a prophet, moved upon by the Holy Ghost. If God has nothing to say, does a prophet then make up things to say? If God says to a prophet, tell the people to get a food storage, and nobody does it, was or is he a prophet?

Just what do members of the church think President Monson ought to be saying anyway? Do all members have a storage? Do they pray always? Do they feast on the word? Do they strive to keep the commandments? Do they strive to remember Christ "always" as spoken of in the Sacramental prayer? Do they strive to have charity in their hearts? Do they feed and clothe the poor and the hungry.

Again, just what is expected from President Monson that hasn't been said many times before? I believe he is a prophet, when God has something to say.

BY their fruits Ye shall know them....?

....and these are the signs that follow...?

Your prophet sounds like a blog, or facebook posts. No?

[AussieOi]

Thanks CTT,

freedom, the scriptures state over and over, "those who harden their hearts gets taken away even which they have"... Great comment. We know Hinckley was able to prophesy about the financial collapse and accurately applied it to Joseph in Egypt. Yet how many listened? Probably not a lot.

Yet Hinckley prefaced his comments by saying, He was not giving prophecy. He was not giving us the word of God. He told us, he was not. He gave us his opinion, which turned out to be a good one, but still not the word of God.

ok. He said this in 98? The market has a recession 01to 03.
A war got it out, then great until 2007. Then 3 bad year's. Now the Dow is at a record high.

I'm struggling to follow this 7+7 from 1998 business.

[BroJones]

"Do you Believe President Monson is a Prophet of God?"
Yes.

[EmmaLee]

We know Hinckley was able to prophesy about the financial collapse and accurately applied it to Joseph in Egypt. Yet how many listened? Probably not a lot.

Yet Hinckley prefaced his comments by saying, He was not giving prophecy. He was not giving us the word of God. He told us, he was not. He gave us his opinion, which turned out to be a good one, but still not the word of God.

true the first time he said that out of 3 but his words were, "I am not prohesying of years of famine"..

Various ways to interpret this, but his exact words were:

“Now, brethren, I want to make it very clear that I am not prophesying, that I am not predicting years of famine in the future. But I am suggesting that the time has come to get our houses in order.”. President Gordon B. Hinckley, “To the Boys and To the Men,” General Conference, October 1998

[TZONE]

Yea, it doesn't really matter. We will have our own opinion of this and that opinion won't change from what anyone says here.

I even feel there ARE church leaders in the past who have been ordained to their true calling. I bet there are some now. Some are commanded to stay silent about their experiences of seeing the savior. I was reading about Denver yesterday and he said the same thing in Come let Us Adore him. I have talk to others who have said they are only allowed to share it with a few. (on this forum) I have talked to a member as a missionary and he never told me he did see the savior but he did say "I know things that I am not even allowed to tell my wife".

[EmmaLee]

I have talked to a member as a missionary and he never told me he did see the savior but he did say "I know things that I am not even allowed to tell my wife".

That makes me sad to hear. Was his wife a member? Had they been sealed? I guess if the wife was on a different spiritual 'wavelength', so to speak, I could understand him not being able to tell her some things - but if they were on 'equal' footings spiritually, it would seem good and proper that they would share everything with each other. Just my thoughts.

[Thomas]

Stella Solaris wrote:
Various ways to interpret this, but his exact words were:

“Now, brethren, I want to make it very clear that I am not prophesying, that I am not predicting years of famine in the future. But I am suggesting that the time has come to get our houses in order.”. President Gordon B. Hinckley, “To the Boys and To the Men,” General Conference, October 1998

The problem with statement is it puts him in a position to be right no matter what happens. If nothing goes wrong, everyone can say he was not giving prophecy. If something does go wrong, people than accept it as prophecy.

In any case, it is nice to know when a leader's statement is his own or if it comes from God.

[TZONE]

I have talked to a member as a missionary and he never told me he did see the savior but he did say "I know things that I am not even allowed to tell my wife".

That makes me sad to hear. Was his wife a member? Had they been sealed? I guess if the wife was on a different spiritual 'wavelength', so to speak, I could understand him not being able to tell her some things - but if they were on 'equal' footings spiritually, it would seem good and proper that they would share everything with each other. Just my thoughts.

Not sure. I wonder that too. I got a weird sense they had their second anointing (or the spiritual portion) but that is completely conjecture.

[ajax]

Stella Solaris wrote:
Various ways to interpret this, but his exact words were:

“Now, brethren, I want to make it very clear that I am not prophesying, that I am not predicting years of famine in the future. But I am suggesting that the time has come to get our houses in order.”. President Gordon B. Hinckley, “To the Boys and To the Men,” General Conference, October 1998

The problem with statement is it puts him in a position to be right no matter what happens. If nothing goes wrong, everyone can say he was not giving prophecy. If something does go wrong, people than accept it as prophecy.

In any case, it is nice to know when a leader's statement is his own or if it comes from God.

Fail safe.

[ajax]

What are the prophetic fruits of President Monson?

[firend]

Stella Solaris wrote:
Various ways to interpret this, but his exact words were:

“Now, brethren, I want to make it very clear that I am not prophesying, that I am not predicting years of famine in the future. But I am suggesting that the time has come to get our houses in order.”. President Gordon B. Hinckley, “To the Boys and To the Men,” General Conference, October 1998

The problem with statement is it puts him in a position to be right no matter what happens. If nothing goes wrong, everyone can say he was not giving prophecy. If something does go wrong, people than accept it as prophecy.

In any case, it is nice to know when a leader's statement is his own or if it comes from God.

Fail safe.

Exactly...fail safe

[firend]

What are the prophetic fruits of President Monson?

I second this. I think it is a very valid question. I don't know of an actual prophesy in recent memory, and it seems it has been ages since a statement has been made giving God the credit ie....thus saith The Lord.

[jo1952]

Not much has changed since Jesus taught us this:

Matthew 23:4-8

4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,

6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,

7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.

8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

or, since Jesus taught this:

Matthew 23:13

But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

Most posters have recognized that the heavens have closed again for the purpose of having more Truth revealed; or to receive explanations for revelations already received which have not been expanded upon for the purpose of understanding those revelations. The posters have recognized they are not ready; that some of what was received has been lost to our understanding. They blame themselves; and the leaders of the Church also blame them by way of continual exhortation to repent and adding more rules and laws---just as in the day of Moses. The people even asked Moses to give them more laws so that they could know how to live their lives. Today we seek to be guided by our leaders; not to be guided directly by God. We want our leaders to be the mediators of Truth; coming between ourselves and God. The burden of the guilt of the members of the Church is grievous to be borne and weighs us down. The leaders don't enter the gates; and they don't allow the members to enter them either. Who occupies the chief seats?

Matthew 6:33
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

As long as we seek to be guided by the leaders of the Church, rather than seeking the Kingdom of God FIRST, we will be stuck in limited understanding of the Truth already revealed, and we will not receive any further Truth; and we will not overcome. God gives us what we want. When the blind lead the blind, both fall into the pit. The pattern of what is now happening in the Church has been described by Jesus when He spoke about the scribes and the Pharisees. Being able to understand what IS being taught in scripture can be understood with the guidance of the Holy Spirit; and can be revealed to the individual. Having more parts of Truth revealed WILL come through the Holy Spirit; and can be received by the individual.

If you are content with limited understanding...if you are content with not receiving any new parts of Truth, then just keep doing exactly what you are doing. If you have a true desire to receive more Truth; then seek for it by going directly to God! Christ is waiting for YOU to open the door. He will not open the door for you. You will get what you want. The individual can have more. The choice is yours.

It occurs to me that by seeking guidance from our leaders who are no longer able to receive more due to our unreadiness to receive more, we are actually stumbling blocks against their progression. It works both ways; we stumble and cause them to stumble----and their stumbling causes us to stumble. So again, when the blind lead the blind, both fall into the pit. Perhaps if enough individual members are able to receive more Truth through their own seeking of the Kingdom of God FIRST, this will allow our leaders to be able to receive more Truth which can then be passed on to the general membership who are not receiving Truth on an individual basis. Then we will have gotten out of each other's way.

The letter of the Law has its purpose; which is the current condition of the Church. Getting beyond the letter of the Law serves a higher and more fruitful purpose. Each individual has the ability to help the entire Church to progress by virtue of seeking the Kingdom of God first.

Shalom,

jo

[Silas]

The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.