Is "Following Prophet" a "Commandment"

[jbalm]

We weren't challenging LDS teaching. We were just responding to your bait question.

What a tangled web...eh?

[AussieOi]

Seek, name any 3 "prophetic" instances since 1844 please

[Seek the Truth]

We weren't challenging LDS teaching.

LDS teaching is challenged on this website continually.

We were just responding to your bait question.

What a tangled web...eh?

I thought I would try a different approach, I see it has been rejected.

[Seek the Truth]

Seek, name any 3 "prophetic" instances since 1844 please

Aussie, do you know where these words comes from?

"Prophet" means spokesperson from the Hebrew. "Prophesy" means to speak under a divine spirit. As such prophetic events have been occuring continually since 1844.

[drjme]

We weren't challenging LDS teaching.

LDS teaching is challenged on this website continually.

We were just responding to your bait question.

What a tangled web...eh?

I thought I would try a different approach, I see it has been rejected.

Has this guy blocked me or something? I've answered it twice now and he's ignoring it, which leads me to believe he is trying to bait.

[jbalm]

We weren't challenging LDS teaching.

LDS teaching is challenged on this website continually.

We were just responding to your bait question.

What a tangled web...eh?

I thought I would try a different approach, I see it has been rejected.

I knew it.

Bait question.

No more benefit of the doubt for you, mister troll.

[paper face]

I stay in the church because I have a testimony of the prophecies of Joseph Smith and the scriptures. The Book of Mormon is legitimate. But those two things do not convince me that the current hierarchy have offered anything that resembles a prophecy, a revelation, or seership.

They seem like good Christian men. But their "witness" of Christ is ambiguous at best. In the scriptures, the people lived with special witnesses that made no equivocations concerning their interactions with God. Our hierarchy come off as not much more than smiley glad-hands that are highly interested in fitting in with corporate and elite America.

When is the last time that one of our apostles went knocking on doors with the missionaries? When is the last time that they got out in public and commanded the whoring masses to repent like Lehi, Samuel, or Abinadi? When were any of them considered a "wild man" like Enoch or John the Baptist?

These men that we sustain simply do not resemble the prophets of scripture at all. They preach to the choir only, where it is safe. They have even given up their trench fight with gay marriage after a few bruises and a black eye. These men cannot even sniff the toes of a man like Abinadi.

[marc]

I stay in the church because I have a testimony of the prophecies of Joseph Smith and the scriptures. The Book of Mormon is legitimate. But those two things do not convince me that the current hierarchy have offered anything that resembles a prophecy, a revelation, or seership.

They seem like good Christian men. But their "witness" of Christ is ambiguous at best. In the scriptures, the people lived with special witnesses that made no equivocations concerning their interactions with God. Our hierarchy come off as not much more than smiley glad-hands that are highly interested in fitting in with corporate and elite America.

When is the last time that one of our apostles went knocking on doors with the missionaries? When is the last time that they got out in public and commanded the whoring masses to repent like Lehi, Samuel, or Abinadi? When were any of them considered a "wild man" like Enoch or John the Baptist?

These men that we sustain simply do not resemble the prophets of scripture at all. They preach to the choir only, where it is safe. They have even given up their trench fight with gay marriage after a few bruises and a black eye. These men cannot even sniff the toes of a man like Abinadi.

Those are very strong words. If I may add some personal insight. Take it for what it's worth. Christ rebuked publicans and lawyers. It was His right to do so. Abinadi condemned the king and his priests. It was his holy calling to do so. Samuel the Lamanite denounced the wicked in Zarahemla and called them to repentance. He was called to do so. Our presiding authorities have their own callings. Does it include rebuking the whoring masses? Perhaps. Perhaps not. But how many of us have been called by holy angels or by the Lord Himself to rebuke and to denounce and to criticize and to judge others? Or are we just taking it upon ourselves to steady the ark?

For all the right or wrong being discussed on this forum, charity seems to be flying out the window lately.

[marc]

Look, I get it. We're due for a cleansing. But please, shouldn't we be concerned about ourselves first? I ask myself constantly and the Lord in prayer, what lack I yet? What can I do more? I'm always looking in the mirror. Should we not all be engaged like this? How can I make the world a better place? How can I make a difference in my ward? What can I do for my hometeaching families this month? How can I serve the Lord better today?

[skmo]

Look, I get it. We're due for a cleansing.

Try a bran muffin. If that doesn't work, I can send you some seal oil (yes, it's just what it sounds like.) Trust me, put a little seal oil down your throat, you'r going to be getting cleaned out from both ends. Explosively. The kids who grew up eating this stuff on their food think it's great. Honestly, I can't describe what it tastes like to me without violating Brian's rules about language allowed on the forum.

[jbalm]

Look, I get it. We're due for a cleansing. But please, shouldn't we be concerned about ourselves first? I ask myself constantly and the Lord in prayer, what lack I yet? What can I do more? I'm always looking in the mirror. Should we not all be engaged like this? How can I make the world a better place? How can I make a difference in my ward? What can I do for my hometeaching families this month? How can I serve the Lord better today?

Yes.

But that isn't the topic of this thread.

[marc]

Look, I get it. We're due for a cleansing. But please, shouldn't we be concerned about ourselves first? I ask myself constantly and the Lord in prayer, what lack I yet? What can I do more? I'm always looking in the mirror. Should we not all be engaged like this? How can I make the world a better place? How can I make a difference in my ward? What can I do for my hometeaching families this month? How can I serve the Lord better today?

Yes.

But that isn't the topic of this thread.

Perhaps I should have messaged paper face privately then. I apologize. And I agree. To answer the topic, I'll quote myself from an earlier reply in this thread.

How many people followed Enoch to build Zion? Why did they follow Enoch? What (WHO) was Enoch pointing to? What was the result? Why have we not yet learned from this?

I'm still searching to see if anyone has answered it. Care to take a stab?

[jbalm]

I'd have to go back and re-read some stuff before I could give you an answer to that.

Hopefully, I'll be able to do so in the near future.

[marc]

I'd have to go back and re-read some stuff before I could give you an answer to that.

Hopefully, I'll be able to do so in the near future.

I look forward to it!

[ajax]

Seems to me we haven't had an Enoch since 1844.

[AussieOi]

2 instances?
Anyone?

Just 2.
Surely can't be that hard?

Apostles are called to baptize too. Says so in D&C.

[paper face]

Look, I get it. We're due for a cleansing. But please, shouldn't we be concerned about ourselves first?

I'm already condemned to hell as far as most of the posters on this board are concerned. I have done plenty of introspection at the behest of the Brethren. But my weakness and deficiencies are not the topic at hand.

Yet, you need them to be. Defenders of the Brethren need so badly to turn any such discussion into an ad hominem discussion of the righteousness of those with dissenting opinions because they know that a simple recounting of the works and fruits of the hierarchy will not suffice.

There are no fire from heaven (Elijah), part the red sea (Moses), famine and plague (Nephi) level events to point to with regards to guys like Uchtdorf and Christopherson. There is no one who has been swallowed by a whale, no showdowns with modern Korihors, no one burned at the stake in the ranks of Packer, Monson, or Scott. That's not evil speaking of anyone. That's just the truth.

How many people followed Enoch to build Zion? Why did they follow Enoch? What (WHO) was Enoch pointing to? What was the result? Why have we not yet learned from this?

I'm still searching to see if anyone has answered it. Care to take a stab?

Enoch? Enoch delivered Moses 6:58-60. He compares childbirth to the Atonement of Jesus Christ, identifying blood, water, and spirit for both. He uses the words "inasmuch" and "even so", as if motherhood and Christ's Priesthood are somehow complements. How many people do you know that actually follow that commandment to teach about the Atonement that way? How many people that you know in this church teach those things to their children freely? Does this scripture mark your raising in this church?

Look up Moses 6:59 in the General Conference talks. Enoch gives us a clear, concise commandment to follow, yet the Brethren have not taught this commandment (or the entirety of that scripture) in General Conference in your entire lifetime. This is Enoch we are talking about, who walked with God and established an actual Zion community. Enoch, a man that could not be contained or withstood because of his power to speak.

His commandment simply isn't sacrament meeting material in this religion. It is largely ignored. Do you know what that says about our hierarchy? It says, on the surface, that they are clearly more interested in his title than they are in his power.

Enoch is a huge problem for the modern church. He is not a defense for the current hierarchy, not remotely. When I think about powerful speakers in the hierarchy, I think of Jeffrey Holland. But Holland delivers all of his powerhouse talks to Mormons. Again, when was the last time this guy knocked on a door? We fly these dudes around the world to speak to the same congregations over and over.

Christ and his Apostles worked the front lines. But since you need this to be about me, then by all means point out my lack of credentials.

[AussieOi]

Wow.
Both of your last posts, wow.
I can't argue a single word to them.
Are we a body that professes the power of god but deny it at the same time?
Deny in all sense of the word

you don't chime in often PF.
I wish I could put an alert on when you post.

[AussieOi]

Oh, and why not? Ill ask one of them
Will take2 months to find out, goes via a friend of a son of one of them

[paper face]

Are we a body that professes the power of god but deny it at the same time?

A dangerous question, Aussie.

[Franktalk]

Paper Face,

I have to compare the current leadership in the LDS church against ancient Israel. In the time of Samuel the Jews were told to follow Samuel the prophet. But Israel cried out for a King. So God gave them a King, He gave them Saul who had many problems. But in his own way Saul still wanted what was best for Israel. But because the Jews would not listen to the words of God they had to suffer the consequences of their actions. So those who wished for their King and followed the King were one group. Then there was another group who would not follow the king, but maybe they would follow no one including Samuel. Then there was a group that knew Saul had big problems but remained a Jew and would not fight against Saul.

Now let us compare this bit of history to the LDS church. We have people who will follow the Prophet no matter what, they treat anything a GA says as scripture. Then we have those who for one reason or another have become disillusioned with the church and leave. These come in three types. The first one are those who came to the church but were not told to join by the Holy Spirit, they can leave at anytime with no problem. The second type were told to join by the Holy Spirit and after some time the Spirit told them to leave, again no problem. The third type are those who joined because the Holy Spirit told them to join but left for some reason even though the Holy Spirit did not tell them to leave, this is a big problem. The last group are those who were told to join and have seen the leadership like Saul, anointed but lacking. They will sort out what comes along and do their best even though they know the church has fallen. They can't leave until they are thrown out or the Holy Spirit tells them to leave. People in general have no patience. God of course will test you.

I can not speak for all of the people who have left the church but I will speak about some. It is my belief that those who came to the church by a commandment from the Holy Spirit and left on their own have lost the Holy Spirit. Many of these people are now anti-LDS. From what I see they are as a group very worldly and tend to flock to a very orthodox position. I have chatted with about a hundred of them on various websites.

I am in the group who came to the church by commandment of the Spirit of God. In my studies I have a very clear picture of the current church and its history. Yes there are problems, so what. It is not like we are being killed by Philistines. I hold to those things revealed to me by the Holy Ghost. So I live by personal revelation. In church I stay inside of normal church teachings. It is quite easy because the church in general does not teach much. Most of it is feel good stuff. Like one big positive attitude seminar. Since the leaders really don't say much and prophesy so little I find I can still help out greatly. I have a great relationship with the Holy Spirit and I wish to keep it that way. I find it easy to avoid all conflicting doctrine so I never have to say something I don't believe. And yes I do sustain the leaders. God commanded this church to spread the restored gospel so in a partial way it is still anointed by God. Who am I to oppose it?

After saying all of that I still believe in truth and outside of church will voice what I feel has been revealed to me.

[firend]

Look, I get it. We're due for a cleansing. But please, shouldn't we be concerned about ourselves first?

I'm already condemned to hell as far as most of the posters on this board are concerned. I have done plenty of introspection at the behest of the Brethren. But my weakness and deficiencies are not the topic at hand.

Yet, you need them to be. Defenders of the Brethren need so badly to turn any such discussion into an ad hominem discussion of the righteousness of those with dissenting opinions because they know that a simple recounting of the works and fruits of the hierarchy will not suffice.

There are no fire from heaven (Elijah), part the red sea (Moses), famine and plague (Nephi) level events to point to with regards to guys like Uchtdorf and Christopherson. There is no one who has been swallowed by a whale, no showdowns with modern Korihors, no one burned at the stake in the ranks of Packer, Monson, or Scott. That's not evil speaking of anyone. That's just the truth.

How many people followed Enoch to build Zion? Why did they follow Enoch? What (WHO) was Enoch pointing to? What was the result? Why have we not yet learned from this?

I'm still searching to see if anyone has answered it. Care to take a stab?

Enoch? Enoch delivered Moses 6:58-60. He compares childbirth to the Atonement of Jesus Christ, identifying blood, water, and spirit for both. He uses the words "inasmuch" and "even so", as if motherhood and Christ's Priesthood are somehow complements. How many people do you know that actually follow that commandment to teach about the Atonement that way? How many people that you know in this church teach those things to their children freely? Does this scripture mark your raising in this church?

Look up Moses 6:59 in the General Conference talks. Enoch gives us a clear, concise commandment to follow, yet the Brethren have not taught this commandment (or the entirety of that scripture) in General Conference in your entire lifetime. This is Enoch we are talking about, who walked with God and established an actual Zion community. Enoch, a man that could not be contained or withstood because of his power to speak.

His commandment simply isn't sacrament meeting material in this religion. It is largely ignored. Do you know what that says about our hierarchy? It says, on the surface, that they are clearly more interested in his title than they are in his power.

Enoch is a huge problem for the modern church. He is not a defense for the current hierarchy, not remotely. When I think about powerful speakers in the hierarchy, I think of Jeffrey Holland. But Holland delivers all of his powerhouse talks to Mormons. Again, when was the last time this guy knocked on a door? We fly these dudes around the world to speak to the same congregations over and over.

Christ and his Apostles worked the front lines. But since you need this to be about me, then by all means point out my lack of credentials.

Wow, one of the best posts ever on here!

[Sariel]

Wow, one of the best posts ever on here!

Yes.

[marc]

Paper Face, unfortunately, the vast majority of the membership does not get it. Darkness still covers the land. We are still under condemnation. We are still not one in heart. Most members are not ready. Despite the great degree of varying uninspired opinions, we are not truly Zion. We have not learned to be like Enoch's society despite the "brethren's" best efforts to teach the most basic principles of faith, repentance, charity, etc. We're still to busy with our hearts set upon the things of the world. I suppose if President Monson began declaring, "thus saith the Lord," the great many stalks of wheat would be plucked away with the tares. On a separate, though somewhat relevant note, I had a conversation in the temple over the weekend with a temple worker who told me of a conversation that he had with a GA emeritus. With the new change in missionary age and the surge in missionary work, the church projects that by 2040, there will be 500 temples and 250 million members. We haven't begun to scratch the surface of the work, which will commence during the millennium.

[freedomforall]

Paper Face, unfortunately, the vast majority of the membership does not get it. Darkness still covers the land. We are still under condemnation. We are still not one in heart. Most members are not ready. Despite the great degree of varying uninspired opinions, we are not truly Zion. We have not learned to be like Enoch's society despite the "brethren's" best efforts to teach the most basic principles of faith, repentance, charity, etc. We're still to busy with our hearts set upon the things of the world. I suppose if President Monson began declaring, "thus saith the Lord," the great many stalks of wheat would be plucked away with the tares. On a separate, though somewhat relevant note, I had a conversation in the temple over the weekend with a temple worker who told me of a conversation that he had with a GA emeritus. With the new change in missionary age and the surge in missionary work, the church projects that by 2040, there will be 500 temples and 250 million members. We haven't begun to scratch the surface of the work, which will commence during the millennium.

Absolutely excellent, coachmarc.
How many Saints are pure in heart...because that is what Zion is and will be? How many are stripped of pride? How many are stripped of envy? How many heap persecutions on their neighbors, including other Saints.

I found this to be very enlightening.

Sustaining Church Leaders

To pledge support to those serving in general and local Church leadership positions.

Set Joshua before all the congregation, and give him a charge in their sight:........................................Num. 27:18–19;
All the people shouted, and said, God save the king:......................................................................1 Sam. 10:24;
Believe his prophets, so shall ye prosper:....................................................................................2 Chr. 20:20;
Obey them that have the rule over you:.......................................................................................Heb. 13:17;
Thou shalt be favored of the Lord, because thou hast not murmured:..................................................1 Ne. 3:6;
They who received the prophets were spared:...............................................................................3 Ne. 10:12–13;
Give heed unto the words of these twelve:...................................................................................3 Ne. 12:1;
By mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same:.......................................................D&C 1:38;
His word ye shall receive, as if from mine own mouth:.....................................................................D&C 21:5;
He that receiveth my servants, receiveth me:................................................................................D&C 84:35–38;
Whoso receiveth me, receiveth those whom I have sent:...................................................................D&C 112:20;
If my people will not hearken to the voice of these men whom I have appointed, they shall not be blest:.......D&C 124:45–46;

Had Noah's family not heeded him, they would have become fish food. Noah would have been alone in the Arc.
Had Lehi's family not heeded him, they would have been destroyed in Jerusalem.
Had Lot's wife heeded him she would not have been turned into a pillar of salt. Gen 19:17,26
Plus other examples.

Here are examples concerning unbelievers and what can happen:
Unbelief, Unbelievers, Doubt ; Fear of God ; Hardheartedness ; Stiffnecked

Moses answered … they will not believe me: Ex. 4:1 .
Because ye believed me not: Num. 20:12 .
in this thing ye did not believe the Lord: Deut. 1:32 .
like … their fathers, that did not believe: 2 Kgs. 17:14 .
they believed not his word: Ps. 106:24 .
understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not: Isa. 6:9 .
hast forgotten me, and cast me behind: Ezek. 23:35 .
people’s heart is waxed gross … and their eyes they have closed: Matt. 13:15 .
he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief: Matt. 13:58 .
Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: Matt. 17:20 .
John came … and ye believed him not: Matt. 21:32 .
he marvelled because of their unbelief: Mark 6:6 .
help thou mine unbelief: Mark 9:24 .
he … upbraided them with their unbelief: Mark 16:14 .
will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers: Luke 12:46 .
If they hear not Moses and the prophets: Luke 16:31 .
he that believeth not is condemned already: John 3:18 .
whom he hath sent, him ye believe not: John 5:38 .
I told you, and ye believed not: John 10:25 .
be not faithless, but believing: John 20:27 .
some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not: Acts 28:24 .
their unbelief make the faith of God without effect: Rom. 3:3 .
He staggered not at the promise … through unbelief: Rom. 4:20 .
because of unbelief they were broken off: Rom. 11:20 .
have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: Rom. 11:30 .
God hath concluded them all in unbelief: Rom. 11:32 .
goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers: 1 Cor. 6:6 .
unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife: 1 Cor. 7:14 .
there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers: 1 Cor. 14:23 .
god of this world hath blinded … them which believe not: 2 Cor. 4:4 .
not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: 2 Cor. 6:14 .
all might be damned who believed not the truth: 2 Thes. 2:12 .
I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief: 1 Tim. 1:13 .
that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure: Titus 1:15 .
be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief: Heb. 3:12 .
they could not enter in because of unbelief: Heb. 3:19 . ( Heb. 4:6 . )
lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief: Heb. 4:11 .
afterward destroyed them that believed not: Jude 1:5 .
fearful, and unbelieving … shall have their part in the lake which burneth: Rev. 21:8 . ( D&C 63:17 . )
one man should perish than that a nation should dwindle and perish in unbelief: 1 Ne. 4:13 .
concerning the dwindling of the Jews in unbelief: 1 Ne. 10:11 .
neither would they believe that I was instructed: 1 Ne. 17:18 .
time cometh that they shall dwindle in unbelief: 2 Ne. 1:10 . ( 2 Ne. 26:17 ; Alma 45:10 ; Morm. 9:20 . )
shall perish in the flesh because of unbelief: 2 Ne. 10:2 .
left to mourn because of the unbelief: 2 Ne. 32:7 .
their unbelief and their hatred towards you: Jacob 3:7 .
because of their unbelief they could not understand: Mosiah 26:3 . ( 3 Ne. 15:18 ; Moro. 10:24 . )
sons of Mosiah were numbered among the unbelievers: Mosiah 27:8 .
trust that ye are not in a state of so much unbelief: Alma 7:6 .
dark veil of unbelief was being cast away: Alma 19:6 .
thou believest, but thou art possessed with a lying spirit: Alma 30:42 .
if … a good seed … do not cast it out by your unbelief: Alma 32:28 .
would ye rather harden your hearts in unbelief: Alma 33:21 . ( D&C 20:15 . )
fallen into a state of unbelief: Hel. 4:25 .
a day set apart by the unbelievers: 3 Ne. 1:9 .
fear because of their iniquity and their unbelief: 3 Ne. 1:18 .
remnant … scattered … because of their unbelief: 3 Ne. 16:4 .
not show … great miracles, because of their unbelief: 3 Ne. 19:35 .
did not dwindle in unbelief: 4 Ne. 1:38 .
Holy Ghost did not come upon any, because of … unbelief: Morm. 1:14 .
shall go unto the unbelieving of the Jews: Morm. 5:14 .
ye unbelieving, turn ye unto the Lord: Morm. 9:6 .
greater … knowledge … is hid up because of unbelief: Ether 4:13 .
if these things have ceased … it is because of unbelief: Moro. 7:37 . ( Moro. 10:24 . )
gifts … never will be done away … only according to the unbelief: Moro. 10:19 .
dwindled in unbelief because of the iniquity of their fathers: D&C 3:18 .
this unbelieving and stiffnecked generation: D&C 5:8 .
repent not of his sins, which are unbelief: D&C 58:15 .
unbelieving … shall have their part in that lake: D&C 63:17 .
a believer should not be united to an unbeliever: D&C 74:5 .
your minds … have been darkened because of unbelief: D&C 84:54 .
portion shall be appointed them among unbelievers: D&C 85:9 . ( D&C 101:90 . )
believed it not, and they loved Satan: Moses 5:13 .
would not hearken … nor believe on his Only Begotten Son: Moses 5:57 .

See also Mal. 2:11 ; Matt. 17:17 ; Morm. 8:28