The Swedish Rescue - Apostasy in Sweden LDS Church

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The Swedish Rescue - Apostasy in Sweden LDS Church

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I'm wondering if anyone has further insights into the falling away from the LDS Church of many members in Sweden and "The Swedish Rescue"?

The Rescue document had this introduction letter:
Source wrote:Stockholm in March 2012

The stake presidents, mission, and district president in Sweden

Dear Brothers,

Hereby forwarded the support material "The Swedish Rescue". It can be used by leaders in the stakes and in the district in their service to strengthen and restore members' faith in the restored gospel.

Every era has its challenges, and we live in an age where technology development and use with different media to have a tremendous impact. IT technology is a wonderful tool for the church but it also attracts members into the traps that put their faith under great strain.
Experience has taught us that when a member went deep into doubt, it is a long process to get out of it. So long that we still can not fathom it. This tells us that we must prevent by strengthening the faith and a strong warning against taking part in something unclean that destroys faith and spirituality.

A good member who never read the speculation or the newly produced information on the net expressed the following. "I notice that thoughts can easily come about: what about it? how can that be? in a completely different way than before. I feel that I need daily ward off it with my own personal prayer and scripture study. "
We must be positive and active in taking the gospel to the people of this country. Everyone needs it in order to fulfil their life missions, and follow the Savior. Sweden Mission, Stockholm has the responsibility to join us in strengthening their missionary work and has the resources to support and cooperate with the stakes and the district.
With prayer and hope for success in your efforts to be shepherds of your flock. Christ is with us in this in any way we need. See the collection in Ezekiel 34:11-16.

With fraternal greetings

Ingvar Olsson
area Seventy
Google translation (partly improved) of the content in the Swedish Rescue:
"The Swedish Rescue"

Most members live in harmony with the gospel and the church's values. However, some members for various reasons had come out on the net and found information about the history of the Church, leader or prophet Joseph Smith, who shocked the members' faith and created disappointment, frustration and sadness.
This support material is designed primarily for the priesthood and help association leaders in their service to:

a) strengthen members' faith in the preventive and

b) to guide members to recapture lost faith.

Material has been produced under the guidance of elders Ingvar Olsson, Area Seventy, mission president Gregory Newell, Sweden Stockholm Mission and the degree of cooperation with Church History Department in Salt Lake City.

Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
March 2012
Table of Contents

The first Letter from the Church History Department with overall
principles

Section 2. and 3. is inspirational material for local priesthood and Relief Society leaders, who in his magistrate practices have leadership responsibilities for members. The second Prevention
2.1 Scripture
2.2 "... resist .... the winds of doubt ..."
2.3 Test and crisis a part of life
2.4 Church's historic sites and recommended books

The third recapture
3.1 Scriptures
3.2 An experienced doubts process
3.3 To respond to members who have doubts
3.4 The art of listening
3.5 New knowledge can deepen faith
3.6 Three areas

Section 4. is an immersion and training for those who are interested to go deeper into the targeted substances.

The fourth Facts and FAQs
4.1 Historical issues
4.2 Writings from the first centuries AD.
4.3 The truth of what one reads
4.4 People in Crisis
4.5 Three levels of access to Church History

Letter from Church History Department
”The Swedish Rescue” Salt Lake City, January 21, 2012.
I think we all agree that in your efforts to rescue those who are struggling, no ”program” [i.e. The Addiction Program] is needed. Rather, priesthood leaders who hold keys, who are filled with charity, and who seek the guidance of the Spirit, will know in each case how best to proceed.
The following summary of the principles that we discussed during your visit may be helpful to you and local priesthood leaders;
(1) The Church does not hide historical facts. In fact, it makes every effort to be open and honest about its past and current actions.
(2) The internet and digital records now make information about the Church available to many who because of language and other limitations have not previously known of this information. This does not mean that such information was hidden by the Church; it was simply not generally available.
(3) Joseph Smith and the prophets who succeeded him were not wicked or deceiving men. Joseph did not become a ”fallen prophet.” He and all other prophets of this dispensation have human weaknesses. They have often admitted this and the scriptures sometimes confirm that God is not pleased with them. However, they worthily exercised their priesthood keys and led the Church in their time as directed by God through revelation.This is true of President Thomas S. Monson today.
(4) Obtaining or regaining a testimony of Joseph Smith as a prophet of God and of the restoration of the gospel through him is always essentially a spiritual quest. Nephi’s reminder to his older brother of the Lord’s words provides a good description of the path each must walk: ”If ye will not harden your hearts, and ask me in faith, believing that ye shall receive, with diligence in keeping my commandments, surely these things shall be made known unto you”, (1 Nephi 15:11).
(5) In working with individual members who are expressing doubts, priesthood leaders should (a) provide the best possible answers to the questions the members are asking, (b) teach the spiritual path each must walk to gain or regain a testimony, helping the members to remember past spiritual witnesses and to avoid contact with evil influences, and (c) emphasize that faith is a conscious choice that each must make.
(6) As guided by the Spirit, the scriptures, and Handbook 1 (section 6.7.3 material on Apostasy), priesthood leaders may need to take disciplinary action with those members who persist in publicly opposing the Church and its leaders after they have been lovingly worked with and corrected by their bishop or higher authority. Alma’s counsel is important in this regard: ”Now repentance could not come unto men except there were a punishment…” (Alma 42:16).
The three-point approach [1. Prevent, 2. Regain and3. Facts & Answers]… formulated after our meeting may be a very good framework to share with priesthood leaders along with the principles set out above.
I think this sums up the things we agreed to during our meeting. We join our faith and prayers with yours that we can make difference in the lives of those Swedish Saints whose faith is being tested.
May the Lord bless you and your associates there, is our prayer.
Sincerely your brother
Elder Marlin K. Jensen
2.0 Prevention

2.1 The Scriptures

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the conviction of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
1 Timothy 6:20-21 Dear Timothy, keep that which has been forwarded to you, and turn away from the endless, empty chatter and the complaints that come from what is called knowledge without being there. Some have strayed from the faith by confessing to ... knowledge.
Alma 32:26 and as I said concerning faith - that there is perfect knowledge - so it is with my words. You may initially not have perfect knowledge that they are true, just as faith is perfect knowledge.
Moroni 10: 30 and again, I urge you to come to Christ and hold on to every good gift and not touching any evil gift, nor unclean.

D & C 109:7 And since not everyone has faith, seek diligently and teach one another words of wisdom, indeed, find the best books words of wisdom. Search for lessons, even by study and also by faith.

D & C 6:23-24 Did I not peace to your mind about this? What greater witness can you get than that which comes from God? And behold, you've got a witness, for if I have told you something that no one knows, have not you got a testimony?

D & C 121: 28 A time will come when nothing will be withheld; whether there is one God or many gods so will it be revealed .... And there will also be revealed if limits are set for the heavens or on the seas .... ".

2.2 "... resist ... the winds of doubt ..."

Apostle Hugh B. Brown (1895 - 1975) writes in his book "An Abundant Life" (An abundant rich life) about the importance of studying in depth:

"... There's not enough candid" investigator "- attitude among us.

We should study with an open mind and to approach new problems with no preconceived notions.
Doubt has its place if it can awaken an interest for us to seek and find truth in our own person.
Too many people in the world are willing to accept as true everything that is printed in a book or termination from a pulpit. Their faith seek never be the authoritative surface.

I appeal to everyone I meet that they should search their faith deeply and find the solid truth, so they can withstand the undecided's and the winds of doubt and storms, resist opposition and persecution, ... with an intelligent faith and understanding of the gospel.
Revelation can come ... to the thinking mind and the investigative spirit, through applications, and research, prayer and inspiration.

We must preserve freedom of thought in the church and resist all attempts to suppress it.
It is possible to memorize a lot without learning anything. In our fast-paced age, there seems to be little time for meditation.

... no one should accept the statement and base his testimony on it, no matter who makes the statement, until he or she is under careful consideration, found it to be true and valuable, then, logical inference is confirmed by the revelation of one's own spirit, because real conversion must come from within ... ".
2.3 Test and crisis a part of life

"... Rather than simply pass through trials, we should allow trials to pass through us in such a way that we developed and sanctified ..."

Apostle Neal A. Maxwell

Leaders who are planning activities and meetings in the church has an important preventive role by preparing the faith-promoting activities and meeting points in any organization and in sacrament meetings.

Faith and the proximity of Jesus Christ develops when the sharing of testimonies, serve others, pray, make speeches, study the scriptures and partake of the sacrament.

To strengthen the faith and prevent the loss of faith is easier than to reclaim the throne when it disappeared.

To meet, endure, go through and developed by the trials and crises are a natural part of life.

It can be affected by crises and trials of relationships, work, health, finances, family and marriage. Similarly, one can get in a crisis with their faith. We need daily care of our relationships, our work, our finances, our marriages, our health and our faith.

Raw experience is no experience. Therefore it is important to put into words their spiritual experiences, whether it be through spoken words (eg, testimony) or written language (eg reflections in a diary). By forming the word of faith experiences are processed into a solid rock that you need to stand as trial winds can blow later. (My personal holy revelations and experiences should be carefully consciously considered, before the sharing of testimonies to others.)

Faith can weaken when one takes note of information that does not match what you believe. To doubt their faith can lead to personal crisis, through the experience of the beliefs you have previously chosen to live his life for was a "Wrong choice". This can get the person to doubt his ability to make other important decisions and self-esteem is shaky.

It may be difficult for anyone who doubts and looked away from the church to come back because the person has not only the "wrong choice" once (when he / she chose the church) but now once again when it turns out that even the doubts are incorrect .

Rather than be faced with the choice - to admit you were wrong - maybe you choose to continue on the "wrong way" so as not to completely lose self-respect.

2.4 Church's historic sites and recommended books

"... Historians should not be in an apologetic fashion, but to be as open, candid and fair about our own history as we can. They should foster a culture of mutual openness with the general historical community .... Greater Dialogue coming about, less Suspicion and a Greater openness that is coming to pass "

Elder Marlin K. Jensen.
The Church is making great efforts to let their story be open to researchers and the public. Lots of archive material made available. The archives are opened does not mean that historical scientific knowledge is complete. This requires that researchers impose scientific research questions, which are tested against archival source material. When sufficiently secure reply, a report or dissertation that examined by other researchers. Only then can the scientifically correct knowledge released to the public.
The church follows a very strict scientific criterion for its historical research.
Church History Department (CHD) cooperates for example with many external researchers, universities and the National Library in Washington to pursue the comprehensive "The Joseph Smith Paper" - project. In about 30 volumes and continuously for 15 years published all archival material relating to Joseph Smith. The publication is in books and online. The church expects in such a way that scientists and the public, who wish, researching the facts as true as possible.

Since the mid-1980s, the historical researcher employed at Church headquarters to gradually delivering as true scientific picture of the period from 1820 to the present time.

Stories about the shortcomings of people in the church have always existed, but not all have known about them. Lord out through yourself in D & C 50:4 (1831) "Behold I the Lord have observed you and have seen abominations in the church that profess my name." (See also the elder Jensen's letter in Section 1. And Apostle Boyd K. Packer's statement in Section 3.3). Having the testimony of the Prophet Joseph Smith does not mean you need to have the same testimony that he was faultless man Joseph Smith.

On the link below can all learn about church history, as a result of continued work of CHD.

https://history.lds.org/?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Each can be on the websites follow the Church's history, such as reading Times & Seasons all the numbers from 1830. All material on church websites is officially approved.

CHD recommend the following websites, which CHD itself uses. These websites are not only focused on the history of the church.

The first LDS FAQ http://ldsfaq.byu.edu/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The second Encyclopedia of Mormonism Online http://eom.byu.edu/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The third FAIR http://en.fairmormon.org/Main_Page" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The fourth Neal A. Maxwell Institute http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The fifth More Good Foundation http://www.moregoodfoundation.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Further recommends CHD following books to start studying the Church's early history:

1.Leonard, Glen:
Nauvoo: A Place of Peace, A People of Promise.
Provo and Salt Lake City: Brigham Young University Press and Deseret Book, 2002.

The second Givens, Terryl:
By the Hand of Mormon: The American Scripture That Launched a New World Religion.
Oxford and New York: Oxford University Press, 2002.

The third Backman, Milton;
ReSound The Heavens: A History of the Latter-day Saints in Ohio, 1830-1838.
Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1984.

The fourth Bushman, Richard:
Joseph Smith and the Beginnings of Mormonism.
Urbana and Chicago: University of Illinois Press, 1984.

The fifth Allen, James:
The Story of the Latter-day Saints. Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1976.
3.0 Re-Conquer

3.1 Scriptures

3 Nephi 13:14. "... For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you ...".

1 Nephi 15:11 "Do not you remember what the Lord has said: If you do not harden your hearts, but ask me in faith and trust that you will receive, and carefully obey my commands, shall surely this known unto you."

D & C 50:10-11 "... And now, saith the Lord by the Spirit to his church elders, and let us talk to each other, so that you can understand. Let's talk just as a man converses with another, face to face. And when a man speaks, she is understood by people, because she talks like a man. Similarly, I the Lord speak to you so that you can understand ... ".

D & C 121: 28 "A time will come when nothing will be withheld, whether there is one God or many gods so will it be revealed .... And there will also be revealed if limits are set for the heavens and the seas ... ".

D & C 64:10 "I, Lord, forgive them, I want to forgive, but of you it is required that you forgive all men."

1 Kings 9:4-5 "If you walk before me [the Lord], as your father David walked, in good heart and sincerity, so that you follow everything I have commanded you and stick to my statutes and regulations; I will let your royal throne over Israel last forever, as I promised your father David "

1 Kings 9:34 + 38 "Yet I will not take away from him [Solomon] the whole country .... for my servant David's sake, whom I chose, because he held on to my commandments and statutes. If you obey all I command you and walk in my ways and do what is right in my eyes, so you hold on to my statutes and my commandments, as My servant David did. "

During the study, prayer and meditation, a person who reads a text guided by the Holy Spirit and ask: Does the text read me closer or further away from the Lord?

Only that which comes directly from the Lord through divine communication is truth, everything else is interpretation. Therefore, prayer is directly to the Lord and the Holy Spirit whispers of priceless value to the personal revelation receive truth.
"... There's another thing that needs to be clarified. Since it is evident that there were Christians long before the New Testament put together, long before there even was no collection of Jesus' statements, one can not therefore claim that the Bible is that makes someone a Christian. As the eminent New Testament scholar NT Wright says: "The risen Jesus does not say at the end of Matthew: 'I'm giving all power in heaven and on earth for the books you will all write', but rather, 'I've got all the power in heaven and on earth. '"In other words:" ... Scriptures point away from themselves and from the fact that the final and true authority belongs to God himself. "So the scriptures are not the definitive source of knowledge for Latter-day Saints. They are manifestations of the definitive source. The definitive source of knowledge and authority of Latter-day Saints is the living God. This communication comes from God through vibrant, powerful, divine revelation ... ".

Apostle Jeffrey R. Holland, General Conference April 2008
3.2 An experienced doubts process

The following are examples of real experiences in a member's idle time. They describe her longing for spirituality and confusion over what is true or not.

- Started to read online
- Ordered and read books
- Had an exchange of views, discussions with peers
- Began to see much wrong with the teachings of the Church
- Felt the Church established "truths" as false
- Felt regret, would like to continue believing the gospel is true, but could not
- Became confused, had a strong faith in Christ and hope in the Lord's guidance
- Felt that "ritual, indoctrinated answer" on various issues it felt all wrong
- Meditated, went back to when she got her testimony, wondering how it happened, what she experienced when
- Lost the desire and motivation to go to church
- Felt a great longing for spirituality
- Went to other churches to find spirituality
- Estranged if she still went to Church meetings
- Values of the church felt fine - after all
- It was hard, she could not find a definitive answer
- Experienced a lot of surface comparisons, materialism, emotional coldness (lack of authenticity), large indoctrination of its members
- Experienced members' treatment as unpleasant (imitation, the press, wanted to arouse guilt, attacked, accused, slandered = ran away)
- Seemed all wrong with [that she experienced] the standard, indeed impersonal quarters even though tears, and "canned myths" (censored stories)
- Wanted to believe, missing it, but perceived contradictions prevented

Many have said that they felt uncomfortable and bad spirit when they started to open and read "anti"-texts online.

When members begin to read about the shortcomings of Church history and that history does not really with what they have learned (and have a problem with it), they find themselves at a crossroads, where they choose their routes.

From pulpits and in the classroom, Church leaders and teachers have not talked much about this particular election, as they have done, for example, the various dependencies. Therefore, not all members either prepared or aware that they face an important decision.

In such a situation should be any time in advance to have decided how to respond.

The choice is between getting closer to Christ or distance themselves from him.

Lord's way of solving problems is: prayer, humility, study of literature, writings, conversations with leaders and friends, personal revelation and ability to rise above human frailty. The Holy Spirit helps us to distinguish between truth and error. Way of the Lord expands our faith and gives personal development.

If you choose to continue studying anti-Joseph Smith lyrics get stuck easily in increasing doubt.

Our mission is to:

a) support the members' faith,
b) demonstrate knowledge that supports the belief in the Prophet Joseph Smith and
c) to guide members who are experiencing a crisis of faith through the process that leads
back to a renewed and even stronger faith.

Experience to date shows that every member that comes into doubt has its own unique situation. Therefore it is important to support measures targeted to each individual separately. And to spend time, prayer and thought on trying to understand the individual and be prepared to listen.

To get through the crisis will help members to grow spiritually and mentally, be stronger, repent and deepen their faith.
When a member re-grow into the idea of an eternal life with God the Father and Jesus Christ, then it can actually experienced it in the present crisis to be an important stepping stone ("stepping least to progress") for development.
In faith, eternal perspective reveals the human failings of Church history as very marginal compared to the restored gospel and its infinite blessings.
3.3 To respond to members who have doubts

A member who doubt will in a more difficult emotional situation and are in need of the most understanding and loving dialogue you can imagine.
- Show empathy, understanding, acceptance, but keep quiet fast to their own values.
- View definitely not superiority, do not try to convince.
- View humility! (The way one describes reality, is the way it looks it!).
- Show genuine friendship.
- Remember: "If I were this person, how would I like to be treated? ".
- Be open to signals - it takes time to adapt an approach.
- Avoid saying, "now I understand exactly how you feel."
- Avoid a call situation where either needs to defend themselves.
- Respect the free will.
- Express the wish that the person you are speaking with to be happy.
- Make decisions that your friendship does not depend on a person returning to the church or not -
and mean it.
- Listen to understand and to be led by the Holy Ghost.

In order to regain their faith requires member

a) "to adjust its course" and keep the commandments
b) join in humble prayer for guidance and
c) receive their own personal revelation. Anyone who does this and get the Spirit Confirmation will be stronger than you did before and not easily shaken in their faith in the Restoration. It is needed in these last days.
"... All around us we see the Church members who have been injured. Some people get upset over events in the history of the Church or its leaders and suffering throughout life without being able to look beyond others' mistakes ...
... If you're carrying a burden, forget it and let it be. Forgive much and repent a little to visit the Holy Spirit and you will be strengthened by the testimony you never knew you had. God watches over and then bless you and your loved ones. I invite you to come to him ... ".
Apostle Boyd K. Packer, General Conference, April 2011.


The third 4 The art of listening

The best way to support people in spiritual crisis is to listen. And to really listen.
Listening also means asking until you understand, "What do you mean?". "Have I understood you correctly that you think like this ...?".

In Preach My Gospel (p. 189) states.

"... When you listen carefully to others, understand them better. When they know that their thoughts and feelings are important to you, they are more likely to share personal experiences and issues.
Listen especially for and seek the Spirit whispers. When others share their feelings with you, thoughts or ideas, which are led by the Spirit, come to your mind. You can better understand what others are trying to express.
While others talk to you, avoid the "trap" of thinking about what to say, as the next post. Make sure you really concentrate and listen to the speaker in place to plan your response or your response.
Elder Jeffrey R. Holland has expressed: "More important than speaking is listening. Be genuine. Ask for what matters most to them when they speak. What they appreciate and what keeps the beloved? And listen. If the circumstance is right, you may be able to ask what their fears are, what their problems are, what they long for, how they perceive their testimony or what they think is missing in their lives. I promise you that some of what they say will always highlight a truth of the gospel that you certainly can bear testimony "(Ensign, May 2001).
People also communicate by how they sit, their facial expressions, what they do with their hands, their voices and their eye movements. Observe these unspoken messages, they can help you understand the feelings of those you are communicating with. Also be aware of your own body language. Send signals to show your interest and commitment by listening sincerely.
Do not be afraid of silence. People often need time to think and respond to questions or to express what they feel. You can pause when you have a question, or after you've shared with you by a spiritual experience, or when people have trouble expressing themselves. Be sure to give them you are calling, time to finish their thoughts before answering, and do not interrupt when they speak.
When you feel that you understand what is said, in front of thoughts like: "So what you're saying is ... is this true? ..." Or "If I understand, you know this ...", or when you are not sure if you understand, ask the person for clarification ... ".

Listening is not talking.
As a "listener" you do not "do something". You do not solve the problem. Listening is doing enough. It is to "do something".

"... I promise you that some of what they say will always highlight a truth of the gospel that you can safely bear witness to and. . . . when listening with love, you will not have to wonder what to say. It will be given to you, by the Spirit and through talking to ... ".
Apostle Jeffrey R. Holland (Preach My Gospel, pp. 189)
3.5 New knowledge can deepen faith

Do not have to hurry to get to the point where the talking to begin building up a mental picture, to bring in the "old" and the "new" in new "synthesis". Let the Spirit lead you so that you understand when the time comes. It may require a lot of calls.

Most people who fall into doubt wish to combine their previous spiritual experiences with the new information they have read. Expressions like, "Well, ... what does human error for the role .... Gospel really is restored through Joseph Smith ... ", can reproduce it as members testify when they remain on the rock of faith. The focus is more on the restored gospel and the Joseph Smith as a prophet, not his human failings. Joseph Smith had many very good points and valuable properties.

The query examples below should be seen as suggestions for topics of conversation. Not as a "checklist" to be grazed. The questions are too broad and deep for that. They can also bring a lot of person that can be difficult to manage. (Eg, self-image: who are you?)

Query Examples:
- How did you get your faith? What did you think then?
- Do you still have these feelings?
- How much do you trust your own experiences and feelings, how much is you depend on others?
- What is your self-image out - who are you?
- What do different routing alternative for the consequences? See the big picture! Calculate"Cost" to change or not change the attitude to life!
- What a "pedestal", you have turned on the prophets? (Eg, Moses, David, and Joseph Smith)
- How do you feel right now?
- Where are you going now?
- How do you understand the Atonement?
- How do you use the scriptures?

Prompt to:
- Studying with the Holy Ghost.
- To receive blessings.
- Partake of the sacrament, to meditate on Christ's atoning significance, and ask Savior show a way out of the dilemma you are in.
- Hold fast to the rod (eg, hold family home evening and observe the Sabbath); throughout doubt the process.
- Without prejudice to other members when you are in doubt. We do not know how others react when they receive it with a self-doubting.
- Understand the frustration, doubt and crisis is a natural part of life and a process to get through.

Be calm, comforting, showing understanding and help to provide reassurance. Show that you are strong in your faith.

3.6 Three areas

Doubts raises three areas:
a) Believe
b) scientific knowledge
c) Crisis

BELIEVE: In the church members and leaders of good insight on how to receive, acknowledge and develop their faith. Most members are "experts" on faith. Priesthood and Relief Society leaders are expected to support, lead and inspire members to believe.
Risk: Members do not care for their faith.
Leaders believe that they must have all the answers.

Opportunity: Members develop their faith through prayer, scripture reading, meditation, partaking of the sacrament, temple visits, personal revelation, etc.
Leaders speak (even from the pulpits) of the importance of:
a) nurture their faith and
b) decide in advance how to choose the way if / when you come into contact with information that is "anti-Joseph Smith." It is a matter of "alert".
SCIENTIFIC KNOWLEDGE: The scientific research community, including church historians, who manages the description of historical events, major requirements, including source criticism and scientific methodology, as a condition of texts to qualify as a real historical knowledge. Most members of the church are not aware of these requirements. Few members are "experts" on knowledge, but they are there.
One can not be certain that the information and knowledge you read is true. The in all contexts important source criticism is often lacking, making literature, and especially internet uncertain (see Section 4.3). In the Gospel there is a principle of true science and true religion goes hand in hand. In the nick of time will eventually all questions to their answers.

Risk: Members draws too fast and / or incorrect conclusions.
Leaders do not know where to refer.

Opportunity: Members can a) learn about the scientific method and
b) studying church history in harmony with sections first and Section 4.2.

CRISIS: Reading the "anti-Joseph Smith" lyrics and become trapped fuel a demand of any kind. This need can be curiosity, channeling raw emotion, curiosity, or perhaps excitement ahead of the "forbidden". For members of the Depression, it may be easy to give discovery of new information, the blame for that one does not feel the spirit. Few members are "experts" to manage themselves in their process through a crisis. In the Church of Sweden are some good resources to exploit. Experienced crisis deepens and develops.

Risk: Members are unaware that they can use the errors of the Church leaders as "escape factor".
Leaders who too easily and quickly take the above as evidence of its own conclusions and actions.
Members may lack the capacity / ability to understand their situation.

Opportunity: Members may be inspired to study in depth and to obtain more knowledge about the history of the church and Joseph Smith as a real restorer of the gospel. This develops a deeper self-knowledge, which enable programmers to extend all aspects of their faith, get to know themselves better and grow.
Members may feel that they will be respectfully and lovingly listened to and not "patted on the head" or ordered.
Leaders learn more about the example:
a) the importance of listening and dialogue, and
b) the personal crisis / trial of different
phases and character.

Members recognize that the crisis is not a threat but an opportunity.

For crisis management, one can seek advice from LDS Family Services.

Priesthood and Relief Society leaders provide peace of mind, standing calmly in their beliefs and values. Spiritual advice, listening and loving empathetic dialogue is the best support. It does not require that church leaders should have specialist knowledge of church history or how crises should be handled in a scientifically proven way. It is enough for the leaders to act in the circle of faith.
4.0 Facts and FAQs

Answers to these questions is not the Church's official positions. They are more intended to provide perspective and highlight issues.

4.1

QUESTION: Who can help to answer historical questions about the church.

ANSWER: A partnership has been established with Church History Department, which means that questions can be emailed to barbro@palm.st who has a good overview of what resources are available in Sweden for answers. Additionally, questions forwarded to the Church History Department in Salt Lake City where it seems necessary to give satisfactory answers.

4.2

QUESTION: Are there books and websites about the first centuries AD., Which deals with principles, preached in the early Christian church.

ANSWER: There are a lot of scientific research event called patristic and whose focus is the writings of the early centuries after Christ. In particular BYU research on such works.

Below are examples of literature that may be of interest to deepen their knowledge of the doctrines preached in the first centuries and then disappeared and then restored by Joseph Smith.

In Restoring The Ancient Church, FAIR, 1999 writes Barry Robert Bickmore:

Because of that there is a complete written description of what was preached in the church of Jesus and the apostles' time, one can not with scientific certainty say that the organization and the doctrines that Joseph Smith restored is identical with the doctrine, preached in the church Jesus organized . The order of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints unique doctrines that Joseph Smith restored, there is the large number described in ancient writings as legitimate tenets of the original church during the first centuries. The Joseph Smith restored the doctrines were not in any church in the 1820s.

In The Inevitable Apostasy and the Promised Restoration, (2006, Deseret Book Co.)
writes Tad R Callister:

"After the apostles died, there was no longer the unifying force left in the church. A different church developed - without revelation and priesthood authority. A new religion grew through compromise between truth and error, by the gospel of Christ was combined with people's philosophies, an appealing blend of New Testament Christianity, Jewish traditions, Greek philosophy, Greek-Roman paganism and the mystery religions. This huge transformation took place within 120 years. But the waste was predicted (2 Thessalonians 2:4). "

In the preface to his book, Enoch the Prophet (1986, Deseret Book Co.) writes Hugh Nibley:

"In the book of Moses in The Diet Only Pearl, recorded in June 1830 - February 1831, when Joseph Smith was 24-25 years old, found in Chapter 6-7" Excerpts from Enoch's prophecy "that Joseph Smith called it. It gives us the most valuable control that we have in the Prophet's authenticity. How does it compare with the known, authentic recordings? It offers the most fully secure test - genuine, unequivocal and decisive - on Joseph Smith's claim to inspiration.

We have been told that if we cease to look, we see nothing more but to lose the taxes we already have. Therefore, it is not only advisable but indicates certainty that we are finally starting to pay attention to the remarkable array of ancient writings that is our generation's special blessing ... ".

Dr. Nibley uses in his book a large number of apocryphal writings discovered long after Joseph Smith's death, and compare how Joseph Smith in the book of Moses, without being able to know these writings, sometimes verbatim, often close to the content consistent, reflecting what who were lost to us.

Hugh Nibley was a pioneer among researchers at BYU when it came to researching ancient writings. In other books, he describes the temple and its ordinances that were in the early Christian church.

Nag Hammadi Scriptures

In the Councils of Nicaea (in 325 - 381 AD) under Emperor Constantine's management were compromised and decided how many Christian denominations would unite in a common doctrine.

There are many writings from the period up to the meetings in Nicaea, which contains information about what the various Christian faiths believe. And in these writings contain information on doctrines that were restored to Joseph Smith also practiced in the primitive Church. These doctrines were not known at time of Joseph Smith.

In 1945 was discovered in the village of Nag Hammadi in Egypt a very small library of 1500 papyrus pages that contain beliefs which are mainly found in the Gnostic doctrine during the first 300 years AD Therefore, in the Nag Hammadi Scriptures find several doctrines that are not in the Joseph Smith restored the Church. But one also finds doctrines that Joseph Smith restored. Some interesting doctrines found in the Nag Hammadi Scriptures: a) Jesus Christ preached to the dead, b) the free will absolute significance, c) Husband and wife in the marriage covenant may have the authority to create their own worlds, d) Pre-Existence, and that creation first took place in the heavenly realms. (These and more re-established doctrines and practices are also found in other scriptures)

James M. Robinson's book: The Nag Hammadi Library, HarperSanFrancisco, 1990, contains all the Nag Hammadi writings translated into English.

You can also visit http://www.nag-hammadi.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; online

Dead Sea Scrolls

The writings from 250 BC - 68 AD. Discovered in the 1947 -1961 and Qumran contains fragments of what Jews hid in AD 70. Dead Sea Scrolls contains all the books of the Old Testament except Esther, also the Book of Enoch and 440 books, unknown in the Old Testament. Dead Sea Scrolls are now in his own museum in Jerusalem. Examples of interesting statements from the Dead Sea Scrolls: a) God chose us in premortal life and knows each one. b) We attended the sacrament in anticipation of the Messiah. c) It healed through the anointing with oil, d) Eternal family can be crowned with glory and stay in the Eternal Light.

Jesus himself said: "Think not that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I have not come to destroy but to fulfil. " (Matthew 5:17) - why it seems some Jewish doctrines also again in the, of Jesus and his apostles organized, Church.
4.3

QUESTION: what should you do to the truth of what you read?


ANSWER: Here are parts of the hermeneutic way to handle text. It is a scientific approach, developed since the Middle Ages. Monks and priests had the preferential right of interpretation of scripture. They sought a way to interpret and understand the Bible texts that could be the "right". Scientists and philosophers have since developed hermeneutics. People affected by the following terms when she reads a text:

A) Comprehension

The words are thought messengers, and we use words in text or voice to communicate to us with each other. Reading is to quietly accept and possibly understand someone else's thoughts written down. All texts, including writings, are someone else's thoughts expressed in words. A person writes or speaks as she has understood.

D & C 50:11-12 "Let's talk just as a man converses with another, face to face. And when a man speaks, she is understood by people, because she talks like a man. Similarly, I the Lord speak to you so that you can understand. "

B) Preunderstanding

How to understand another person, or event is affected by pre understanding, i.e. that every man carries with him the knowledge, feelings and experiences. Pre understanding is often a barrier to understanding, because understandings means putting yourself aside and fully listen.

Understanding, the effect is that no one experiences a pure rational understanding. Comprehension is always colored one's own past experience.

C) Interpretation

Background, personality and the choices previously made, creating their own individual "glasses" to see when one experiences the environment or reading a text. These "glasses" are called "reference".

They interpret events through their individual frames of reference. The interpretation is always subjective, never purely objective. The human frame of reference helps to provide reassurance and sense of coherence. Their own frames of reference, one can develop and change.

In social contexts, people develop common frames of reference. The church developed a "church-framework" through which members can see the behavior of others, listens to testimony and observe other members' way of life. If a member's frame of reference matches fairly with the other members, one can say that the member is " church socialized". To change their frames of reference will be possible until the member / members understand that her / their frame of reference needs to change.

One can never fully put into another person's frame of reference, but you can try. Empathy helps to supplement the reference frame with additions coming from another person's world. And perhaps you will be able to understand her.

C) new information

What happens when new information does not match a person's frame of reference suddenly hits her?

For example: When a person reads a new text with information that does not match her frame of reference, the person feels uncomfortable (cognitive dissonance arises). Inner peace, the person can get back by either 1) re-interpret the new 2) reinterpret the old, or 3) integrate and merge the new with the old. And in this way develop their frame of reference.

D) Reports

The truthfulness of a story is affected by:

1) a narrators awareness or unawareness to angle information.
2) the time elapsed from the event to the narrative.
3) if the people in the stories are dead - well then you have only left traces that do research in. The truth is difficult to assess.
4) how many points the information passed. It is well known that the information is distorted by number of stages. Think of the outcome of the whispering game.

Rationalization and similar plays many tricks on the memory. As it always is in its own centre, it is common practice to beautify their own role in a process, and present themselves as more central than it actually was.

In a historical and scientific approach is all narrative a result of interpretations and no absolute truth does not exist.

Only the Lord's words to man, through personal revelation, are true. And when you think about them, or bear witness to them interpret even this event, and the story of the personal revelation changed slightly. The cavity is influenced.

E) The whole and the part

In hermeneutics, the term whole and part. A part is "pie slices" of the whole. If any part of the whole, is perceived as wrong, for example, stories about how the history of the Church been reproduced, the following questions arise: how does the big picture when a part is incorrect? How important is the part for the whole? How important is the part: Joseph Smith living for the truth of the whole: the gospel of eternal perspective, which restored through Joseph Smith?

F) Evaluation of sources

Source criticism of read texts is very important. This means that you have to formulate and ask questions about and to the text. The following are examples of major source-critical questions:

text's context (context)
author's frame of reference
Reference browser
reader preunderstanding
reader's understanding
first hand or second-hand information
Who is the author
Translation of text any
time between the event and the writing of the text

Lord means

During the study, prayer and meditation, a person who reads a text guided by the Holy Spirit and ask: Does the text read me closer or further away from the Lord?

Only that which comes directly from the Lord through divine communication is truth, everything else is interpretation. Therefore, prayer is directly to the Lord and the Holy Spirit whispers of priceless value to the personal revelation receive truth.

"... There's another thing that needs to be clarified. Since it is evident that there were Christians long before the New Testament put together, long before there even was no collection of Jesus' statements, one can not therefore claim that the Bible is that makes someone a Christian. As the eminent New Testament scholar NT Wright says: "The risen Jesus does not say at the end of Matthew: 'I'm giving all power in heaven and on earth for the books you will all write', but rather, 'I've got all the power in heaven and on earth. '"In other words:" ... Scriptures point away from themselves and from the fact that the final and true authority belongs to God himself. "as the scriptures are not the definitive sources of knowledge for Latter-day Saints. They are manifestations of the definitive source. The definitive source of knowledge and authority of Latter-day Saints is the living God. This communication comes from God through vibrant, powerful, divine revelation ... ".

Apostle Jeffrey R. Holland, General Conference April 2008
4.4

Q: How do people react in crisis?

Answer: According to the psychiatric science canonical "crisis curve" (Kris and Development, Professor Johan Cullberg, 1980, Nature & Culture), is a human who in crisis through four phases in a certain order. The phases are called: shock phase, reaction phase, revision phase and new orientation phase. The crisis is often a prerequisite for development and maturation.

Kris curve fitted to a member who end up in crisis, because the member for extremely important existential belief disturbed, can be described as follows:

The first Shock phase: lasts from the event occurs [= discovery that the member is unknown stories about Joseph Smith and the Church's history is not consistent with the previously thought] to a few days. User is difficult to take in and react to what happened. On the surface, the person may seem calm and composed, but inside it is chaos. User may find it difficult to take in the views of others and may have difficulty remembering past spiritual experiences. Some are quiet and have a strong need to talk about their discoveries with other members.

The second Reaction phase: four to six weeks is the limit for the reaction phase should be regarded as belonging to the current discovery. User is slowly beginning to take in what has happened and how it will affect the future. Finding the answer to the question why? occupies much of the member's time and energy. It is not unusual to feel guilt or blame their surroundings. Why the Church does deceived, betrayed and deceived me? Emotional outbreaks or isolation of feelings is a way to avoid facing the painful discovery. To deny the significance of the incident is also common.

The third Revision phase: this phase starts where the acute crisis phase ends. It is the time when the victim has taken up and accepted what has happened and starts to turn towards the future. Temporally phase occurs about six months to one year after the initial discovery. Defensive denial starts to wear off but it may take time before the victim can look back without embellishing, such as be able to see both what was positive and the negative of the Prophet Joseph Smith and the man Joseph Smith. This phase may vary in different members and take different lengths of time, something you should have respect.

The fourth a phase of reorientation: Now a member can get back to herself again. Someone else can come to the conclusion to abandon their membership. The old spiritual practices resumed and new perspectives of faith might apply. It takes up again the old social relationships in the church and become more active in their relations. Reorientation phase has no end. Life goes on but the crisis is always present as a memory. But the members have moved out of its crisis and find that it meant the opportunity for spiritual growth. It is stronger in faith than before the crisis.

Respectfully, leaders accept the principle of free choice. Reorientation phase may mean that the member let life take a different direction than to decide to become "active" again.

"Crisis Response must be viewed in context and relate with respect to the individual's personal circumstances.
Member's feelings and reactions depend heavily on what she experienced before in her life, how strong testimony she has or has had, and the difficulties she had as a child and how she dealt with generally in life, and so on.
The crisis is often the negative side of human beings to flourish strong and willing to take over. Only when life goes against a man, she gets a chance to look at themselves in new light. One must recognize that the crisis is a healing process to move towards reconciliation and new growth.
Members can react quite different at the same kinds of information. Some may react very strongly to the difference between what they believed and what the new information indicates. The explanation may be that they have met the corresponding emotional experience of "betrayal" earlier in life. When the experience is repeated by further information gathering, the reaction is stronger and cooler than the surroundings have been expected.
The same kind of crisis triggering cause can also be experienced in terms of intensity, depending on age and lived for a particular member is located. Certain types of stress affect young more heavily than older people and vice versa. Although physical - and mental illness may play a role. The individual's social circumstances, family situation and social status in the Church may also be relevant for the course, eg in terms of loneliness versus participation in a safe and supportive community. "
4.5 Three levels to take part in Church history.

(Free for Professor Stanley Kimball, Southern Illinois State University).
• Authors note

(Free after professor Stanley Kimball, Southern Illinois State University).
* authors notice).

4.5 Three levels to take part in Church history.

A: "Church-lesson" levels. Everything is in harmony, good and true. Church seeks to describe members of the history at that level.

Most members live on Level A whole life and they do not get to level B and C.

B: "Anti-Mormon" levels. Everything we thought was harmony, good and true, seems rather evil, false and chaotic.

In order to sort out their dilemma, one can choose to:

1) manage their frustration and integrate the new information in their mind and testimony
2) abandon their faith
3) continue to the more intellectually demanding level C.

C: "Academic scientific level." Not everyone has to penetrate to this level, but for some it may be necessary. There may be those that continue to suffer from Level B or who think that the A-level is inadequate in some way. This level describes a multi-faceted and more complex story to relate to.

At Level C is required including that we study deeply and is willing to take up new frames of reference and knowledge. Many have heard about the BYU professor Hugh Nibley, but few have read his works. Many have heard of the Dead Sea Scrolls and Nag Hammadi Scriptures, but few know research.

One challenge is that most of the level B is not sufficiently familiarizing themselves with the scientific research available on level C.

"To meet the intellectual arguments [for example, at level B *] are required even sharper counter-argument [from level C *]." Apostle Henry B. Eyring.

Most members live on Level A, all his life. They do not get to level B and C. It is enough for one's salvation to be at Level A.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
history.lds.org
The official history website of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Kevin Kraut comments on it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnfJW1Qqk5s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Jason
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Re: The Swedish Rescue - Apostasy in Sweden LDS Church

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The Mantle
https://byustudies.byu.edu/PDFLibrary/2 ... 25bfe6.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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AussieOi
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Re: The Swedish Rescue - Apostasy in Sweden LDS Church

Post by AussieOi »

Wow.
someone.spent a LOT of time on this.
something must have happened.
tithing receipts must have really fallen!

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Re: The Swedish Rescue - Apostasy in Sweden LDS Church

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Legion wrote:The Mantle
https://byustudies.byu.edu/PDFLibrary/2 ... 25bfe6.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I guess that's relevant to what I posted above but not relevant to my reasons for posting it - fwiw. I am curious if anyone has more insight into the actual goings on in the Church in Sweden, if they have friends that have left, etc.

I've always thought it very unfortunate that the "Google Apostasy" is a reality, it's unfortunate when people leave the Church because of things they read about Church history... obviously it's happening everywhere not just Sweden... for me all that matters is what the Spirit has testified - regardless of any faults of man, I follow the Spirit which tells me this is Christ's Church and that is that.

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Re: The Swedish Rescue - Apostasy in Sweden LDS Church

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BrianM wrote:for me all that matters is what the Spirit has testified - regardless of any faults of man, I follow the Spirit which tells me this is Christ's Church and that is that.
Amen.
AussieOi wrote:Wow.
someone.spent a LOT of time on this.
something must have happened.
tithing receipts must have really fallen!
=)) =))

And its not the traditional, anti Mormonism, or falling away.

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Re: The Swedish Rescue - Apostasy in Sweden LDS Church

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BrianM wrote:
Legion wrote:The Mantle
https://byustudies.byu.edu/PDFLibrary/2 ... 25bfe6.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I guess that's relevant to what I posted above but not relevant to my reasons for posting it - fwiw. I am curious if anyone has more insight into the actual goings on in the Church in Sweden, if they have friends that have left, etc.

I've always thought it very unfortunate that the "Google Apostasy" is a reality, it's unfortunate when people leave the Church because of things they read about Church history... obviously it's happening everywhere not just Sweden... for me all that matters is what the Spirit has testified - regardless of any faults of man, I follow the Spirit which tells me this is Christ's Church and that is that.
It is why we have been warned not to rely on the arm of flesh but to seek spiritual confirmation of our own.

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Re: The Swedish Rescue - Apostasy in Sweden LDS Church

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http://www.mormonthink.com/swedish-rescue.htm

Little information
Apostasy within the LDS Church seems to be among the highest in Sweden with many LDS members questioning their beliefs, including several high-ranking LDS leaders. In order to help these struggling members in Sweden, the LDS Church issued a document called 'The Swedish Rescue'.

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Re: The Swedish Rescue - Apostasy in Sweden LDS Church

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AussieOi wrote:Wow.
someone.spent a LOT of time on this.
something must have happened.
tithing receipts must have really fallen!
Great example....
...many of the things they tell one another are not uplifting, go far beyond the audience they may have intended, and
destroy faith.
What that historian did with the reputation of the President of the Church was not worth doing. He seemed determined to convince everyone that the prophet was a man. We knew that already. All of the prophets and all of the Apostles have been men. It would have been much more worthwhile for him to have convinced us that the man was a prophet, a fact quite as true as the fact that he was a man.

He has taken something away from the memory of a prophet. He has destroyed faith. I remind you of the truth Shakespeare taught, ironically spoken by Iago:

Who steals my purse steals trash—’tis something, nothing,
‘Twas mine, ’tis his, and has been slave to thousands—
But he that filches from me my good name
Robs me of that which not enriches him
And makes me poor indeed.3

The sad thing is that he may have, in years past, taken great interest in those who led the Church and desired to draw close to them. But instead of following that long, steep, discouraging, and occasionally dangerous path to spiritual achievement, instead of going up to where they were, he devised a way of collecting mistakes and weaknesses and limitations to compare with his own. In that sense he has attempted to bring a historical figure down to his level and in that way feel close to him and perhaps justify his own weaknesses.

That historian or scholar who delights in pointing out the weaknesses and frailties of present or past leaders destroys faith. A destroyer of faith— particularly one within the Church, and more particularly one who is employed specifically to build faith—places himself in great spiritual jeopardy. He is serving the wrong master, and unless he repents, he will not be among the faithful in the eternities.

One who chooses to follow the tenets of his profession, regardless of how they may injure the Church or destroy the faith of those not ready for “advanced history,” is himself in spiritual jeopardy. If that one is a member of the Church, he has broken his covenants and will be accountable. After all of the tomorrows of mortality have been finished, he will not stand where he might have stood.

I recall a conversation with President Henry D. Moyle. We were driving back from Arizona and were talking about a man who destroyed the faith of young people from the vantage point of a teaching position. Someone asked President Moyle why this man was still a member of the Church when he did things like that. “He is not a member of the Church,” President Moyle answered firmly. Another replied that he had not heard of his excommunication.

“He has excommunicated himself,” President Moyle responded.

“He has cut himself off from the Spirit of God. Whether or not we get around to holding a court doesn’t matter that much; he has cut himself off from the Spirit of the Lord.”
https://byustudies.byu.edu/PDFLibrary/2 ... 25bfe6.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Take out the historian or professor and insert I, me, we. Where do we stand and how do we measure up in this war for the souls of men? Are we builders of faith or destroyers? In whatever capacity we may be in? Will we be held accountable if so?

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Re: The Swedish Rescue - Apostasy in Sweden LDS Church

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Right, we should not be destroyers of faith. We should be pointing people to Christ and building faith in Him.

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ajax
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Re: The Swedish Rescue - Apostasy in Sweden LDS Church

Post by ajax »

BrianM wrote:We should be pointing people to Christ and building faith in Him.
Even if that destroys tradition.

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Jason
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Re: The Swedish Rescue - Apostasy in Sweden LDS Church

Post by Jason »

ajax wrote:
BrianM wrote:We should be pointing people to Christ and building faith in Him.
Even if that destroys tradition.
Of course that path must be carefully walked...with much fasting and prayer...lest our definition of tradition take us off into mists of darkness from which we may not return...
While in Kirtland, President Brigham Young encountered a group of apostates who were plotting against the Prophet Joseph Smith within the very walls of the temple. He declared, “I rose up, and in a plain and forcible manner told them that Joseph was a Prophet, and I knew it, and they might rail and slander him as much as they pleased, they could not destroy the appointment of the Prophet of God, they could only destroy their own authority, cut the thread that bound them to the Prophet and to God and sink themselves to hell” (“History of Brigham Young,” DNW, 10 Feb. 1858, 386). In Kirtland, Missouri, Nauvoo, and Utah, President Young witnessed the devastation that visits the personal lives of those who succumb to apostasy. Many of the apostates had been among his closest associates. He recognized that often “trifling affairs” were the commencement of their separation from the truth, and he emphatically warned each member to guard carefully against any degree of wrongdoing.

Whenever there is a disposition manifested in any of the members of this Church to question the right of the President of the whole Church to direct in all things, you see manifested evidences of apostasy—of a spirit which, if encouraged, will lead to a separation from the Church and to final destruction; wherever there is a disposition to operate against any legally appointed officer of this Kingdom, no matter in what capacity he is called to act, if persisted in, it will be followed by the same results; they will “walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, self-willed; they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities” [see 2 Peter 2:10] (DBY, 83).

When a man begins to find fault, inquiring in regard to this, that, and the other, saying, “Does this or that look as though the Lord dictated it?” you may know that that person has more or less of the spirit of apostasy. Every man in this Kingdom, or upon the face of the earth, who is seeking with all his heart to save himself, has as much to do as he can conveniently attend to, without calling in question that which does not belong to him. If he succeeds in saving himself, it has well occupied his time and attention. See to it that you are right yourselves; see that sins and folly do not manifest themselves with the rising sun (DBY, 83).
http://www.lds.org/manual/teachings-bri ... 2?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
There is a question that each of us must deal with in a most solemn and serious way if our lives are to be what the Father of us all would have them be: “What is our response when the living prophets declare the mind and the will of the Lord?” This is the test of mankind in every dispensation.

President J. Reuben Clark, Jr., drew a very important distinction concerning revelation from the Lord:

“Some of the General Authorities have had assigned to them a special calling; they possess a special gift; they are sustained as prophets, seers, and revelators, which gives them a special spiritual endowment in connection with their teaching of the people. They have the right, the power, and authority to declare the mind and will of God to his people, subject to the over-all power and authority of the President of the Church.”

You may wonder why I stress this point so strongly. It is because a misunderstanding here can cause us deep pain and can be the means of misleading many others. Those who claim similar powers often declare that they are doing it with purity of heart and with total sincerity.

One’s intentions may be of the purest kind. The sincerity may be total and complete. Nevertheless, pure intentions and heartfelt sincerity do not give members of the Church authority to declare doctrine which is not sustained by the living prophets. While we are members of the Church, we are not authorized to publicly declare our speculations as doctrine nor to extend doctrinal positions to other conclusions based upon the reasoning of men and women, even by the brightest and most well-read among us.

The prophets are not only called to receive the doctrine and direct the ordinances through the keys they hold. They are also responsible to keep the saving doctrine pure so that people can hear and feel that doctrine in its sure and certain form.

Occasionally we have those who become a law unto themselves in these matters. Sadly, their pride leads them down a road which President Spencer W. Kimball warned us about: “Apostasy usually begins with question and doubt and criticism. …

“They who garnish the sepulchres of the dead prophets begin now by stoning the living ones. They return to the pronouncements of the dead leaders and interpret them to be incompatible with present programs. They convince themselves that there are discrepancies between the practices of the deceased and the leaders of the present. … They allege love for the gospel and the Church but charge that leaders are a little ‘off the beam’! … Next they say that while the gospel and the Church are divine, the leaders are fallen. Up to this time it may be a passive thing, but now it becomes an active resistance, and frequently the blooming apostate begins to air his views and to crusade. … He now begins to expect persecution and adopts a martyr complex, and when finally excommunication comes he associates himself with other apostates to develop and strengthen cults. At this stage he is likely to claim revelation for himself, revelations from the Lord directing him in his interpretations and his actions. These manifestations are superior to anything from living leaders, he claims.”
http://www.lds.org/general-conference/1 ... n?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Those of us who think “. . . all is well in Zion . . .” (2 Nephi 28:21) in spite of Book of Mormon warning might ponder the words of Heber C. Kimball when he said, “Yes, we think we are secure here in the chambers of these everlasting hills . . . but I want to say to you, my brethren, the time is coming when we will be mixed up in these now peaceful valleys to that extent that it will be difficult to tell the face of a Saint from the face of an enemy against the people of God. Then is the time to look out for the great sieve, for there will be a great sifting time, and many will fall. For I say unto you there is a test, a Test, a TEST coming.” (Heber C. Kimball, 1856. Quoted by J. Golden Kimball, Conference Report, October 1930, pp. 59-60.)
http://www.latterdayconservative.com/ez ... -deceived/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Brothers and sisters, the exact time of the Second Coming is known only to the Father (see Matt. 24:36). There are, however, signs that scriptural prophecy relating to that tumultuous day is being fulfilled. Jesus cautioned several times that prior to His Second Coming, “many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many” (Matt. 24:11). As Apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ, it is our duty to be watchmen on the tower, warning Church members to beware of false prophets and false teachers who lie in wait to ensnare and destroy faith and testimony. Today we warn you that there are false prophets and false teachers arising; and if we are not careful, even those who are among the faithful members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints will fall victim to their deception.

“We can accept nothing as authoritative but that which comes directly through the appointed channel, the constituted organizations of the Priesthood, which is the channel that God has appointed through which to make known His mind and will to the world. … And the moment that individuals look to any other source, that moment they throw themselves open to the seductive influences of Satan, and render themselves liable to become servants of the devil; they lose sight of the true order through which the blessings of the Priesthood are to be enjoyed; they step outside of the pale of the kingdom of God, and are on dangerous ground. Whenever you see a man rise up claiming to have received direct revelation from the Lord to the Church, independent of the order and channel of the Priesthood, you may set him down as an imposter” (Gospel Doctrine, 5th ed. [1939], 41–42).

When we think of false prophets and false teachers, we tend to think of those who espouse an obviously false doctrine or presume to have authority to teach the true gospel of Christ according to their own interpretation. We often assume that such individuals are associated with small radical groups on the fringes of society. However, I reiterate: there are false prophets and false teachers who have or at least claim to have membership in the Church.

Therefore, let us beware of false prophets and false teachers, both men and women, who are self-appointed declarers of the doctrines of the Church and who seek to spread their false gospel and attract followers by sponsoring symposia, books, and journals whose contents challenge fundamental doctrines of the Church. Beware of those who speak and publish in opposition to God’s true prophets and who actively proselyte others with reckless disregard for the eternal well-being of those whom they seduce. Like Nehor and Korihor in the Book of Mormon, they rely on sophistry to deceive and entice others to their views. They “set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get gain and praise of the world; but they seek not the welfare of Zion” (2 Ne. 26:29).

Of such President Joseph F. Smith warned when he spoke of the “proud and self-vaunting ones, who read by the lamps of their own conceit; who interpret by rules of their own contriving; who have become a law unto themselves, and so pose as the sole judges of their own doings” (Gospel Doctrine, 381).

Regardless of which particular false doctrines they teach, false prophets and false teachers are an inevitable part of the last days. “False prophets,” according to the Prophet Joseph Smith, “always arise to oppose the true prophets” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, sel. Joseph Fielding Smith [1976], 365).

However, in the Lord’s Church there is no such thing as a “loyal opposition.” One is either for the kingdom of God and stands in defense of God’s prophets and apostles, or one stands opposed.

Let us remember that it is our duty to be faithful to the restored truths of the gospel of Jesus Christ. It takes faith—real faith, total and unreserved—to accept and strive to live prophetic counsel. Lucifer, the adversary of truth, does not want us to feel or exhibit that kind of faith. He encourages disobedience, planting defiance in the hearts of the unwary. If he is successful, they will turn away from the light into the darkness of the world. Our safety, our peace, lies in working as hard as we can to live as the Father and Son would have us live, in fleeing from false prophets and false teachers, and in being anxiously engaged in good causes.

I know that God lives. Jesus is the Christ. The restored gospel is true, and there is great joy in being anxiously engaged in this true and holy work. Of this I testify in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.
http://www.lds.org/general-conference/1 ... s?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Prophet Joseph Smith said, “I will give you a key that will never rust, if you will stay with the majority of the Twelve Apostles, and the records of the Church, you will never be led astray.” 1

The Prophet also stated: “The Priesthood is everlasting. The Savior, Moses, and Elias, gave the keys to Peter, James, and John, on the mount, when they were transfigured before him.” 2 Peter, James, and John conferred the keys of the kingdom of God upon the Prophet Joseph and ordained him to be an Apostle and a special witness of the name of the Savior and to bear the keys of his ministry. 3 Keys that pertain to the gathering of Israel, the dispensation of Abraham, and, indispensably, the keys of sealing were conferred upon the Prophet by Moses, Elias, and Elijah in 1836. 4

Prior to the martyrdom, no doubt with a sense of foreboding, the Prophet Joseph prepared for his death. President Joseph Fielding Smith states:

“The Prophet declared that he knew not why, but the Lord commanded him to endow the Twelve with these keys and priesthood, and after it was done, he rejoiced very much, saying in substance, ‘Now, if they kill me, you have all the keys and all the ordinances and you can confer them upon others, and the powers of Satan will not be able to tear down the kingdom as fast as you will be able to build it up, and upon your shoulders will the responsibility of leading this people rest.’” 5

After learning of the deaths of the Prophet Joseph and the Patriarch Hyrum, Wilford Woodruff reports his meeting with Brigham Young, who was then the President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, as follows: “I met Brigham Young in the streets of Boston, he having just returned, opposite to Sister Voce’s house. We reached out our hands, but neither of us was able to speak a word. … After we had done weeping we began to converse. … In the course of the conversation, he [Brigham Young] smote his hand upon his thigh and said, ‘Thank God, the keys of the kingdom are here.’”

“When the Lord gave the keys of the kingdom of God, the keys of the Melchisedec Priesthood, of the apostleship, and sealed them upon the head of Joseph Smith, He sealed them upon his head to stay here upon the earth until the coming of the Son of Man. … They were with him to the day of his death. They then rested upon the head of another man. … He held those keys to the hour of his death. They then fell by turn, or in the providence of God, upon Wilford Woodruff.

I say to the Latter-day Saints the keys of the kingdom of God are here, and they are going to stay here, too, until the coming of the Son of Man. Let all Israel understand that. They may not rest upon my head but a short time, but they will then rest on the head of another apostle, and another after him, and so continue until the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ in the clouds of heaven to ‘reward every man according to the deeds done in the body.’” 9
http://www.lds.org/ensign/1994/11/the-k ... t?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Seek the Truth
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Re: The Swedish Rescue - Apostasy in Sweden LDS Church

Post by Seek the Truth »

Honestly- please, allow me to speak honestly- some people can be incredibly myopic and insular in their thinking.

People are leaving religion in droves all over the world supposedly over issues like evolution/science and an upcoming culture that has been taught gay is ok and global warming is the moral issue of our age and racism is the worst thing in the world.

A blogger I occasionally frequent is calling for the Anglican Church to teach evolution and drop the resurrection of Christ and most of the Old Testament. This sort of thing is happening everywhere.

Personally, it seems that many people are willing to cower before the flesh of other men, willing to throw revelation and priesthood power away to gain favor from men, willing to cast aside the things God has given us. Fearing men more than God.

They will not quit until you deny Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon. Then they will demand you deny Christ. Then, at the end, they wont even accept you unless you start to have others do the same. Just realize who you will be working for at that point.

Squally
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Re: The Swedish Rescue - Apostasy in Sweden LDS Church

Post by Squally »

“There is a temptation for the writer or the teacher of Church history to want to tell everything, whether it is worthy or faith promoting or not. Some things that are true are not very useful.” -Boyd K Packer.


“If a faith will not bear to be investigated; if its preachers and professors are afraid to have it examined, their foundation must be very weak.”-President George A. Smith


“If we have the truth, it cannot be harmed by investigation. If we have not the truth, it ought to be harmed.” – President J. Reuben Clark


Incorrect traditions and deceptions aren't very useful.

Truth is useful. Honesty is useful.

Nan
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Re: The Swedish Rescue - Apostasy in Sweden LDS Church

Post by Nan »

Squally wrote:“There is a temptation for the writer or the teacher of Church history to want to tell everything, whether it is worthy or faith promoting or not. Some things that are true are not very useful.” -Boyd K Packer.


“If a faith will not bear to be investigated; if its preachers and professors are afraid to have it examined, their foundation must be very weak.”-President George A. Smith


“If we have the truth, it cannot be harmed by investigation. If we have not the truth, it ought to be harmed.” – President J. Reuben Clark


Incorrect traditions and deceptions aren't very useful.

Truth is useful. Honesty is useful.
Truth is not always useful. Some people use "truth" to hurt others. Somethings are really better left unsaid. Telling your wife she is fat and unattractive to you may be truth, but it isn't very useful. And it doesn't lift anyone. So I think we have to take into account our motivations.

farfromhome
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Re: The Swedish Rescue - Apostasy in Sweden LDS Church

Post by farfromhome »

Where is BYU in all this? Why aren't they speaking out to help save those being "sifted"?

Why are they not speaking out about horses in ancient America? as Dr Steven Jones did with his data?
(oops, didn't they silence/marginalize his voice and push him to resign? -- yes, they did attack him.)

Why don't they speak out about DNA findings showing the X2 haploid in the Jewish/Israel populations AND in North American Indians?
(oops, didn't BYU/Farms marginalize the voice of Rod Meldrum who DOES speak out on the DNA/Book of Mormon issue -- yes, they did attack him.)

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SpeedRacer
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Re: The Swedish Rescue - Apostasy in Sweden LDS Church

Post by SpeedRacer »

Thank you BrianM. That was an excellent read. It was quite revealing to see how in tune to the needs these brethren were, and how clearly they understand truth. Quite faith affirming.

deep water
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Re: The Swedish Rescue - Apostasy in Sweden LDS Church

Post by deep water »

What good, would their be in having a perfect faith, in an incorrect principle. None! The only thing of value, is to have faith in a true principle. God creates the Devil imitates. His imitations are so close to what God has created, that one has to be well informed with both knowledge and the wisdom of the Holy Ghost to know what is truth and what is fiction. God is truth and cannot lie,and so must we become, if we want to become like him. The devil was given control of all the armys, wealth, power, churches, of this world. He uses every advantage he can gain, to bring us to him. God set his kingdom (church) up out of this world. We were to be a people in the world and not of it! That is why their are no sick, lame, blind, deft, in Christ Church.

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AussieOi
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Re: The Swedish Rescue - Apostasy in Sweden LDS Church

Post by AussieOi »

Interesting

so tell me, what is the very close counterfeit to the Lord's real church.


other Christian denominations aren't even close

and really, visions, tongues, healings. I'm sorry, I don't see them in our church

Benjamin_LK
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Re: The Swedish Rescue - Apostasy in Sweden LDS Church

Post by Benjamin_LK »

Nan wrote:
Squally wrote:“There is a temptation for the writer or the teacher of Church history to want to tell everything, whether it is worthy or faith promoting or not. Some things that are true are not very useful.” -Boyd K Packer.


“If a faith will not bear to be investigated; if its preachers and professors are afraid to have it examined, their foundation must be very weak.”-President George A. Smith


“If we have the truth, it cannot be harmed by investigation. If we have not the truth, it ought to be harmed.” – President J. Reuben Clark


Incorrect traditions and deceptions aren't very useful.

Truth is useful. Honesty is useful.
Truth is not always useful. Some people use "truth" to hurt others. Somethings are really better left unsaid. Telling your wife she is fat and unattractive to you may be truth, but it isn't very useful. And it doesn't lift anyone. So I think we have to take into account our motivations.
Again, if there's anything that I am thankful for, it comes down to genuine willingness to think analytically about what people throw as "truth" to me. Again, imperfections of people, well there's already plenty I have come to understand as my own imperfections, and frankly, a lot of the imperfections admitted by some of the church leaders, like Thomas S. Monson's admission to starting a brushfire in General Conference, I was like really? Again, for some people the faults of others are a breaker. For me, however, it's been pretty assuring to see that the people leading the church made mistakes, and learned to be better people because of them.

Part of the real perspective I am getting at has had to do with me being a convert to the church, and the hurdles I had to go through to make that conversion happen. Again, from where I am at, it's been nice to know that there was a church that was willing to take me in regardless of my very imperfect state, and also a place that encouraged me to make some real pushes to be a better person.

Benjamin_LK
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Re: The Swedish Rescue - Apostasy in Sweden LDS Church

Post by Benjamin_LK »

Seek the Truth wrote:Honestly- please, allow me to speak honestly- some people can be incredibly myopic and insular in their thinking.

People are leaving religion in droves all over the world supposedly over issues like evolution/science and an upcoming culture that has been taught gay is ok and global warming is the moral issue of our age and racism is the worst thing in the world.

Again, it always amazes me how over the top some members of the church get about climate change, when a great deal of the blame thrown at climate change are really postdictions, which are not helpful to science, or to people in general. What's worse, isn't that the same bad science that the secular world claims to oppose? As far as racism, well that is both possible to overcome and be forgiven by God for, but in reality it's used by many nowadays as a mean to act like modern-day Pharisees, and argue that it takes a person down, whereas in the church I can name a number of people with issues against people based on their ethnic backgrounds (like me hating Russians) that got over the irrationality and made due repentance about it. As for sexuality, I am pretty sure even the CDC tries to casually call men who have sex with men constituting a majority of new STD cases, but again, the real kicker here is blaming everyone but the actions of the individual for something.

A blogger I occasionally frequent is calling for the Anglican Church to teach evolution and drop the resurrection of Christ and most of the Old Testament. This sort of thing is happening everywhere.

The secularization of the Episcopal Church is nothing new. I attended an Episcopal School for high school from 1996-2000. Even back then, there were a couple of ministers in the Episcopal Church who considered the miracles of the OT to be symbolic stories to inspire moral messages. It was in that time, that even then, as a member of the Catholic Church (which I was until 2000) I figured that something isn't right, and it will only get worse. And from my perspective, even after joining the Church with the rest of you, it has. It's not just a blogger, it's been a growing number of leaders, and even Reverends in the Episcopal CHurch, and leaders of a number of Evangelical Protestant faiths as well.


Personally, it seems that many people are willing to cower before the flesh of other men, willing to throw revelation and priesthood power away to gain favor from men, willing to cast aside the things God has given us. Fearing men more than God.

They will not quit until you deny Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon. Then they will demand you deny Christ. Then, at the end, they wont even accept you unless you start to have others do the same. Just realize who you will be working for at that point.
At the end, you sort of understate it, I fear they will demand even worse and ask that you prove your loyalty to them through being the persecutor to others of the faith, bad-mouthing and calling for all manner of evil against those who believe in religion, or projecting (accusing religion of doing all wrong). They might even ask you to abuse, attack members of the church, or worse. Again, believe me that encounters with some antis aren't pretty especially the ones who try actively to dissuade you from trying to join the church, whom you really wish would just butt out.

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AussieOi
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Re: The Swedish Rescue - Apostasy in Sweden LDS Church

Post by AussieOi »

Where is byu in this?


Um, that was rhetorical, wasn't it?


Aside from the good doc, um, byu kinda is a sorry joke isn't it?

Seek the Truth
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Re: The Swedish Rescue - Apostasy in Sweden LDS Church

Post by Seek the Truth »

Why trust in the arm of flesh Aussie.

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AussieOi
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Re: The Swedish Rescue - Apostasy in Sweden LDS Church

Post by AussieOi »

Exactly

that doesn't mean The flesh isn't meant to make use of itself from time to time of course

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AussieOi
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Re: The Swedish Rescue - Apostasy in Sweden LDS Church

Post by AussieOi »

Time to bump thread for those who want to see the outcome, and those 5 websites, and how they responded to the Swedes.

QUESTION: Who can help to answer historical questions about the church.

ANSWER: A partnership has been established with Church History Department, which means that questions can be emailed to barbro@palm.st who has a good overview of what resources are available in Sweden for answers. Additionally, questions forwarded to the Church History Department in Salt Lake City where it seems necessary to give satisfactory answers.

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iamse7en
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Re: The Swedish Rescue - Apostasy in Sweden LDS Church

Post by iamse7en »

Get rid of correlation and the central planning of indoctrination. Let local leaders and teachers take the reigns and seek the spirit to meet the needs of their members, which may likely include "inoculation" of our youth by gifted, inspired teachers.

We also need to get members to get off their butts and not to rely on Sundays for their spiritual search for truth. This will never happen though as the masses are lazy in general. I never had a problem of feeling deceived because I was always searching on my own and spent many hours studying church history and issues before the information age really kicked in.

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