LDSs support of Secret Combinations

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Benjamin_LK
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Re: LDSs support of Secret Combinations

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TruthOrConsequences wrote:Secret combinations are the result of several paradigm shifts that either the people or our leaders have allowed themselves to be led by the adversary into. The primary means toward a society's degeneration are personal worthiness, the subtle rationalization away from constitutional principles, and the yoke of financial bondage and military conquest.

The media has so conditioned our perspectives towards these issues and of course the false choices they blatantly parade in front of us, that we are almost always kept off balance. That being "who deceiveth the whole world' is a formidable opponent, let us not take him lightly. We must do all we can to battle him with true principles every way we possibly can.

First of all then, we have to know these principles to aid us in waging war against the adversary. The gospel, scriptures, church leaders have given us many of them already. We can also go to the Lord to guide us to those that have not been revealed. Most of us already know this but the task seems so overwhelming that we become discouraged before we even start.

Getting gain and power or more specifically ill gotten gain and unrighteous power seem to me to be the adversary's primary agenda. This unrighteous foundation must be attacked. Drilling down even deeper, money is at the root of it all "the love of money is the root of all evil". Take away the funding for these secret combinations, unrighteous power structures and they can be easily defeated.

I don't believe that the 16th Amendment (Income Tax) and the Federal Reserve Act (both enacted in the same year) was by accident. I also can't believe our political leaders at that time weren't fully aware that these 2 actions wouldn't allow a steady stream of ill gotten wealth to be put into the pockets of the banking establishment and in return a diversion of funds from them into the coffers of our political leaders to keep them in office. I describe the simple solution to reforming our monetary system to de-fund these elitists and bring financial control back to our local communities (I'm just the messenger; Mike Montagne is the author of this system). See "Mathematically Perfected Economy, the solution" in the LDSFF. Please don't judge it until you see just how rock solid its principles really are. It's not Capitalism, nor is it Socialism, but true free market enterprise in its purest form.
Good post, sums most of what needs to be said.

Regarding support for the Secret Combinations, they would be reduced to bare bones strength if people, weren't doing unchastity, abortion, illicit drugs, like they are. The appeal would be lost, and the funding would be significantly reduced. But the doctrines are there, and if both members and nonmembers alike start living a life more in line with the gospel, then the Secret Combinations would weaken.

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gruden2.0
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Re: LDSs support of Secret Combinations

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This thread prompted me to re-read Ether 8. What stood out for me are two things:

1. What prompts the Lord to action is not simply the fact that secret combinations with the intent to get gain exist, but the murder of prophets and righteous people by these combinations (v.22). How many have been murdered by these people in past and recent times I couldn't possibly say. I suspect another wave of intense persecution will set in motion the Lord's hand against these things.

2. Moroni's warning in v.23 applies to a period of time prior to when combinations take hold over us. That time has already passed, as I'm sure everyone would agree. Both our government and many foreign governments are thoroughly infiltrated by the combinations. Since this is the case, we are past the point where Moroni's warning can help us to avoid that fate. Therefore, what can we do?

I believe the only course to remove ourselves from the influence of the combinations is to do what the Nephites did in 3 Nephi 3, which was to gather together. In those times, as today, the secret orders had gotten so far out of control and permeated so deeply into society there was really no other alternative.

HeirofNumenor
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Re: LDSs support of Secret Combinations

Post by HeirofNumenor »

I believe the only course to remove ourselves from the influence of the combinations is to do what the Nephites did in 3 Nephi 3, which was to gather together. In those times, as today, the secret orders had gotten so far out of control and permeated so deeply into society there was really no other alternative.
Speculation, I know - but where would you envision we all gather?

I know various prophecies/opinion form 1800's prophets and apostles said Utah....others feel it will be wherever a temple is...

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Re: LDSs support of Secret Combinations

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gruden2.0 wrote:This thread prompted me to re-read Ether 8. What stood out for me are two things:

1. What prompts the Lord to action is not simply the fact that secret combinations with the intent to get gain exist, but the murder of prophets and righteous people by these combinations (v.22). How many have been murdered by these people in past and recent times I couldn't possibly say. I suspect another wave of intense persecution will set in motion the Lord's hand against these things.

2. Moroni's warning in v.23 applies to a period of time prior to when combinations take hold over us. That time has already passed, as I'm sure everyone would agree. Both our government and many foreign governments are thoroughly infiltrated by the combinations. Since this is the case, we are past the point where Moroni's warning can help us to avoid that fate. Therefore, what can we do?

I believe the only course to remove ourselves from the influence of the combinations is to do what the Nephites did in 3 Nephi 3, which was to gather together. In those times, as today, the secret orders had gotten so far out of control and permeated so deeply into society there was really no other alternative.
A few thoughts of mine:

1) And persecution runs by degrees. First they bad-mouth and make the right way look not cool, like the people Nephi and Lehi saw in the great and spacious building, they bad-mouth you for being a sincere, faithful, member of the church. They disparage, and provoke you to isolate be less inclusive of converts, scared of trying to be a missionary, and most of all, be afraid of them, then, as the final step they seek your destruction, and resort to open mass murder. Interestingly enough, the persecution process relies heavily on getting the righteous to believe false doctrine, which the Book of Mormon outlines in great detail through the likes of Sherem, Corihor, Nehor, and believe me, most of the mockery made of the church members nowadays is a regurgitation of what the notorious antichrists in the Book of Mormon said. In fact, I found it funny listening to how some of the secularists on TV took a swing at our church and others too, using the same accusations that Korihor levelled against the church, like:

There is no God, religious leaders are lazy people who make a profit off the members, because there is no God, breaking of commandments (especially chastity) isn't wrong. I find it in no means coincidential that the Book of Mormon points out that Korihor used denial of God to condone unchastity, where a similar emphasis is used nowadays.

2) Secret Combinations have been among all nations for a long time. East Asia, for example, has had crime families whose scope and power long predate the formation of the U.S. Constitution. All throughout history, such organizations have flourished and run amok. Moroni's warning is still important, because the Lord will separate the Saints and other righteous people from the Secret Combinations, however, it will take being in tune with the spirit to know who to follow at the vital moment: the Lord and safety, or the Secret Combinations and their awful destruction as they try to war against each other and seek to utterly destroy the true followers of God from off the face of the Earth, and as such a neccessity is there, that's why the General Authorities are emphasizing on repenting of the serious sins of this time, because if you're still invested in these awful sins of drugs, unchastity, violence, and dishonesty, how are you supposed to expect the holy spirit or the word's of the Lord's annointed to reach you at the time it is most vital?

Moroni's warning applies now as much as any other time. Because realizing that your sin essentially sponsors the works of darkness that seek to overthrow freedom, and annihilate the Prophets and Saints of God, gives a whole lot of weight to the need to repent doesn't it? That, to me anyways, is a large scope of what Moroni was getting at. Sinning, with drugs and unchastity being the big examples I can think of, are the big money-givers to the criminal underworld. If people didn't buy into porn, do you think they would buy into messages condoning unchastity? If people weren't so into violence as entertainment so glorifies it, do you think that they would really be all that likely to condone wars of aggression conducted by our own nation? If people don't buy into stolen goods, or the idea of something not being earned with work, don't you think they would be as easily bought by promises of goodie giveaways, and more focused on how they can be aware of the needs of their neighbor for service?

Sin and false doctrine is the payroll of secret combinations. When people don't buy into the awful sin, the pay of the secret combinations decreases dramatically.

Put in mind too, that if one is not in a position of unrepentance, one wouldn't be buying into the awful vices of sin which the secret combinations use to make their revenue. People buy into secret combinations by buying into sin.

HeirofNumenor
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Re: LDSs support of Secret Combinations

Post by HeirofNumenor »

that's why the General Authorities are emphasizing on repenting of the serious sins of this time, because if you're still invested in these awful sins of drugs, unchastity, violence, and dishonesty, how are you supposed to expect the holy spirit or the word's of the Lord's annointed to reach you at the time it is most vital?

This..... :ymapplause:

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Re: LDSs support of Secret Combinations

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lundbaek wrote:I suggest that many people may have supported the "secret combination" by not speaking up during Sunday School Lesson 46 about Moroni's warning about the secret combinations begun by Gadianton and the commandment that "...when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this secret combination which shall be among you.'" and to "suffer not that these murderous combinations shall get above you". It appears that many SS teachers, including ours, skated around that topic, avoiding it completely.
Our teacher point blank asked: "are there secret combinations today?" I raised my hand and said: "na, it's all a conspiracy theory." Of course I was being factious but I'm not sure if the people in class took it that way because the room went silent and nobody said a word. So the teacher moved on to other parts of the lesson. :-\

lundbaek
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Re: LDSs support of Secret Combinations

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How would the rest of you respond to a person or any teacher in church asking "are there secret combinations today?" Could you respond by telling in your own words what President Packer wrote about them in 2010, or what President Benson stated in October 1988 or what Elder McConkie said about them in 1980 ? Or that Moroni's warning about them in Ether 8 was meant for us at this time ? Or Nephi's warning about them in 2 Nephi 26:22 ? I know some of you could do a right good job of it.

lundbaek
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Re: LDSs support of Secret Combinations

Post by lundbaek »

I think whoever suggested this is correct that the General Authorities are emphasizing on repenting of the serious sins of this time, because if you're still invested in these awful sins of drugs, unchastity, violence, and dishonesty, the holy spirit or the word's of the Lord's annointed cannot normally reach one at the time it is most vital. An excellent suggestion. And it seems to explain why so many church local leaders, bishops and stake presidents, have made it clear that they intend to focus on these sins an not bother with educating their members on the importance of the Constitution and the dangers of the secret combinations.

Benjamin_LK
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Re: LDSs support of Secret Combinations

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lundbaek wrote:How would the rest of you respond to a person or any teacher in church asking "are there secret combinations today?" Could you respond by telling in your own words what President Packer wrote about them in 2010, or what President Benson stated in October 1988 or what Elder McConkie said about them in 1980 ? Or that Moroni's warning about them in Ether 8 was meant for us at this time ? Or Nephi's warning about them in 2 Nephi 26:22 ? I know some of you could do a right good job of it.
Ether 8 is applicable to our time. It is applicable because when we unrepentantly engage in the sins of this generation, we fund secret combinations, and nullify the promptings of the spirit, which is foundation to heeding the prophetic counsel, or taking it seriously, when it really does come. But in order to really escape the Secret Combinations, we must repent of what is sinful. There's no coincidence about it.

lundbaek
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Re: LDSs support of Secret Combinations

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And Prresident Packer said "Wherefore, O ye Gentiles [and the term gentile in that place in the Book of Mormon refers to us in our generation], it is wisdom in God that these things should be shown unto you, that thereby ye may repent of your sins, and suffer not that these murderous combinations shall get above you." And the warnings of President Benson and Elder McConkie clearly refer to our time. One might be tempted to suggest that members who do not recognize the secret combination in our midst today are engaging in some form of unrighteousness. But I cannot buy into that idea, which leaves me still wondering why so many good Mormons seem almost totally oblivious to the secret combinations.

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Re: LDSs support of Secret Combinations

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mes5464 wrote:In addition to the ways already mentioned, I think one is supporting LDGs or partaking in their spoils by:
Accepting a government job.
Accepting government handouts.

Well said. Most government jobs involve doing things not authorized by the Constitution. Medicaid is a perfect example. People divert the assets of their elderly parents 5 years before they need nursing home care so Medicaid will pay the nursing home costs. So the kids run with the money and let the tax payers foot the bill. If you mention it to them they always say: "it's legal". Sure it's legal, so is abortion
.

lundbaek
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Re: LDSs support of Secret Combinations

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To a church member who asks: "are there secret combinations today?" I would recommend :

http://www.connorboyack.com/blog/images/oas.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: LDSs support of Secret Combinations

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lundbaek wrote:To a church member who asks: "are there secret combinations today?" I would recommend :

http://www.connorboyack.com/blog/images/oas.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Excellent resource, lundbaek -- thank you. One quote caught my eye:
“We condemn the outcome which wicked and designing men are now planning, namely: the worldwide establishment and perpetuation of some form of Communism on the one side, or of some form of Nazism [national socialism] or Fascism on the other.”
General Conference—October 1942
Pres. Heber J. Grant

jeanpierre
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Re: LDSs support of Secret Combinations

Post by jeanpierre »

I am grateful to those church leaders who made statements about the secret combinations. They have helped to motivate my research into them. I regret that current church leaders who know of these things cannot speak of them too openly and clearly lest they provoke retribution against the church.

Benjamin_LK
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lundbaek wrote:And Prresident Packer said "Wherefore, O ye Gentiles [and the term gentile in that place in the Book of Mormon refers to us in our generation], it is wisdom in God that these things should be shown unto you, that thereby ye may repent of your sins, and suffer not that these murderous combinations shall get above you." And the warnings of President Benson and Elder McConkie clearly refer to our time. One might be tempted to suggest that members who do not recognize the secret combination in our midst today are engaging in some form of unrighteousness. But I cannot buy into that idea, which leaves me still wondering why so many good Mormons seem almost totally oblivious to the secret combinations.
No worries, the membership of the secret combinations, will make themselves known as they oppose the work of the Lord. False doctrines, as well as the vain and foolish doctrines outlined by all the prophets, and even Jesus Christ himself will be promoted by members of these very secret combinations. False Doctrines lead back to them.

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Curtis Dall, his book "FDR - My Exploited Father-In-Law", wrote: "May you benefit from observing how certain shadowy forces contrive to ruthlessly advance their own financial and ideological objectives at your expense. They select, then groom, and ultimately control many of our highest government officials. They plan the wars and through foreign policy arrange to set the stage for incidents to inflate hostilities. They overwork the word peace to mislead you and create a plausible smoke screen in order to conceal their real operations. You can recognize who they are." Some of them, even many of them, but certainly not all of them this side of Satan.

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Re: LDSs support of Secret Combinations

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I think it is in our interest, even our responsibility, to try to identify ASAP as many of the latter-day gadiantons and their works as we can and oppose them now as best we can, and not wait until the Lord reveals to us all the hidden things of darknes at His 2nd coming. I detect an inclination of many Mormons to wait until they are commanded in these things.

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Re: LDSs support of Secret Combinations

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lundbaek wrote:I think it is in our interest, even our responsibility, to try to identify ASAP as many of the latter-day gadiantons and their works as we can and oppose them now as best we can, and not wait until the Lord reveals to us all the hidden things of darknes at His 2nd coming. I detect an inclination of many Mormons to wait until they are commanded in these things.
Careful on the assumptions there, don't forget that the counsel of the apostle Paul is also scriptural,

"11 Put on the whole aarmour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12 For we awrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with btruth, and having on the cbreastplate of drighteousness;

15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of apeace;

16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

17 And take the helmet of asalvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;"

Paul had a great idea about Secret Combinations, given that he included the mention of powers of darkness running government, sounds a lot like the Latter-Days, doesn't it? But Paul has an important role in emphasizing yet another Latter-Day Principle: A solid spiritual, and doctrinal foundation. Note the important emphasis that Paul gave to false doctrines. Believe me when I say that we don't have to go out and look for secret combinations, they will come to us, with their false doctrines, wiles, and so on. They will defend and seek to persuade people to not join the church, they will try and persuade you to leave. We don't need to hide, however, we just need to realize that our real weapon is a solid foundation in the Word of God, with it, we will wage war. Believe me, members of secret combinations will come running to defend the lies and false doctrines that we seek to disprove like Moths to a Flame, until the Lord says otherwise, our duty is to serve missions. Don't let the trigger finger itch too much, we as a church have a long way to go in terms of the membership repenting, and in terms of missionary work before the Lord comes, so let's get on rollin' at it.

I can understand the frustration when it comes to the fact that plenty of members, myself included, can be more in line with God, and we know it. Stay patient, keep up the hard work, and keep at it, we will succeed eventually, and remember what was said in History of the Church with the phrase, "No Unhallowed Hand".

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Re: LDSs support of Secret Combinations

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Even if our present church leaders were to stand at the pulpit and tell people to recognize our awful situation and to give another warning, just how many saints would heed it, how many would do any differently than they do now?

They will not come out with some big program because of fear of having the church divide asunder. It is up to us, the awakened, to spread the word...like missionaries seeking new converts. This could be one way that God separates the wheat from the tares. The wheat are self starters, gospel loving and are the elect of God, ready to open their mouths for Christ's sake in many ways beside just gospel verses from scripture.
I'm not perfect by any stretch, but I have spoken against Obama to strangers whenever the opportunity arose. I want people to know my distaste for him, and obamacare. If we keep our mouths shut, we are no better off than the one's doing nothing. Likewise, it is the people who speak of Christ wherever they go that are more apt to receive Celestial glory. D&C 76

This is another way we are tested by our God.

Luke 11:23
23 He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.

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Re: LDSs support of Secret Combinations

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freedomfighter wrote:Even if our present church leaders were to stand at the pulpit and tell people to recognize our awful situation and to give another warning, just how many saints would heed it, how many would do any differently than they do now?

They will not come out with some big program because of fear of having the church divide asunder. It is up to us, the awakened, to spread the word...like missionaries seeking new converts. This could be one way that God separates the wheat from the tares. The wheat are self starters, gospel loving and are the elect of God, ready to open their mouths for Christ's sake in many ways beside just gospel verses from scripture.
I'm not perfect by any stretch, but I have spoken against Obama to strangers whenever the opportunity arose. I want people to know my distaste for him, and obamacare. If we keep our mouths shut, we are no better off than the one's doing nothing. Likewise, it is the people who speak of Christ wherever they go that are more apt to receive Celestial glory. D&C 76

This is another way we are tested by our God.

Luke 11:23
23 He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.
Even moreso is the fact that a great deal of the policies are larger than just Obama, and larger than just the Democratic Party, that cause so many of the problems.

For example Gun Control would produce a society where only the super-wealthy would have a right to defending their homes from burgulars and attackers with significant effect. Believe me that even if the everyday individual were denied gun ownership. Government officials and multimillion, or billionaires would still have the protection of gun-toting bodyguards, while everyone else would pretty much be comparatively easy targets, pretty much regarded as worthless.

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Re: LDSs support of Secret Combinations

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Benjamin_LK wrote:
freedomfighter wrote:Even if our present church leaders were to stand at the pulpit and tell people to recognize our awful situation and to give another warning, just how many saints would heed it, how many would do any differently than they do now?

They will not come out with some big program because of fear of having the church divide asunder. It is up to us, the awakened, to spread the word...like missionaries seeking new converts. This could be one way that God separates the wheat from the tares. The wheat are self starters, gospel loving and are the elect of God, ready to open their mouths for Christ's sake in many ways beside just gospel verses from scripture.
I'm not perfect by any stretch, but I have spoken against Obama to strangers whenever the opportunity arose. I want people to know my distaste for him, and obamacare. If we keep our mouths shut, we are no better off than the one's doing nothing. Likewise, it is the people who speak of Christ wherever they go that are more apt to receive Celestial glory. D&C 76

This is another way we are tested by our God.

Luke 11:23
23 He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.
Even moreso is the fact that a great deal of the policies are larger than just Obama, and larger than just the Democratic Party, that cause so many of the problems.

For example Gun Control would produce a society where only the super-wealthy would have a right to defending their homes from burgulars and attackers with significant effect. Believe me that even if the everyday individual were denied gun ownership. Government officials and multimillion, or billionaires would still have the protection of gun-toting bodyguards, while everyone else would pretty much be comparatively easy targets, pretty much regarded as worthless.
Ya we have major bankers to deal with. They're the ones holding the puppet strings.

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Re: LDSs support of Secret Combinations

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Great post & thread Lundbaek!
karend77 wrote:I appreciate the concern of the post. I think the LDS church does not support secret combinations; but I believe many LDS people support secret combinations. They do this mostly from lack of understanding the scriptures and constitution, and from sheer naivete. For example, in Utah too many people trust the Republican party and it's officials to be "good". From experience I will say it has become a secret combination and those in power reward those who follow them. Those that try to follow constitutional principles chance having their reputations defamed or are threatened, among other things. There are those trying to fight from within, but it is a steep uphill battle. When trying to educate the delegates and districts of constitutional principles those educating are called radicals, and the leadership tells them to not listen.

So, try as we might, unless the majority of the people recognize the combinations and vigorously try to root them out, they are here to stay until the Lord destroys them.
Agreed!

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Post by LDSNZ »

I believe that by virtue of one's vote (including Lds's) & inaction Latter Gadiantion agenda's are been entrenched!

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LDSNZ
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Re: LDSs support of Secret Combinations

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lundbaek wrote:I suggest that many people may have supported the "secret combination" by not speaking up during Sunday School Lesson 46 ....
Agreed!

Many here aren't even aware of it!

Or are apathetic az :(

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Re: LDSs support of Secret Combinations

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Fairminded wrote:It seems plain that for the Lord's reasons our Church leaders are staying silent on secret combinations. But even so I'd like to see something, anything from them. Ideally, I'd like to see President Monson, in his main General Conference address, look straight at the membership of the world and quote this scripture:
For behold, it is not meet that I should command in all things; for he that is compelled in all things, the same is a slothful and not a wise servant; wherefore he receiveth no reward. (D&C 58:26)
Then I'd like him to say something to the effect of "I want all of you to look at the way the world is. Don't wait for government or religious leaders or the media to tell you what's going on and how you should feel about it. I want you to see, to understand for yourselves what is happening around you. Then do something about it. The Lord's will is that we teach you correct principles then leave it to you to govern yourselves. We've endeavored our best to do the first, now keep the Lord's commandments and do the second."
Great post!

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