Santa not welcome again at the Ward Christmas Party

[Darren]

I have reconciled my belief in Santa Claus.

Santa Claus represents a memory of Jesus Christ.

The memory of Jesus Christ's visit to the lost tribes of Israel still lingers in the personification of Santa Claus. And until the Scriptures of the lost tribes of Israel are presented at a conference of the Church, then these lingering cultural memories and the histories embedded in our culture are what we have available to remember and explore the amazing coincidences of this personification in who is Santa Claus.

It is a Catholic Assembly lie to tell a child that Jesus Christ was born on December 25, instead of April 6. But to tell the story of Santa, and of Weihnachten from its ancestral roots is not a lie, and is profitable in building upon truths available in our ancestral culture. (D&C 86)

From before time immemorial Weihnachten and the other 3 ancient Church holidays have been for celebration by our culture.

Santa is a tradition in remembering the virtue and goodness of Jesus Christ.

And that is no lie.

God Bless,
Darren

[ajax]

"Ironically, inordinate attention, even to good things, can diminish our devotion to God." Neal A Maxwell "Consecrate Thy Performance."

Having Santa show up at a Christmas party for a few minutes I would hardly call inordinate.

[jdawg1012]

"Ironically, inordinate attention, even to good things, can diminish our devotion to God." Neal A Maxwell "Consecrate Thy Performance."

Having Santa show up at a Christmas party for a few minutes I would hardly call inordinate.

Be that as it may (it's irrelevant to my point), "boycotting" a ward gathering because "he" didn't may very well be.

[Darren]

I just don't want to attend more church meetings on that Sunday even though our leaders try to call it a Christmas Party. I remember how they used to call it a "Fun" thing to do, in my early years, to go to the Church Farm and clean out the diary cow stalls. I'll go if I am called to, but I would rather skip it.

From a talk entitled "The Man Who Would Be Santa" by James E. Faust from the 1998 First Presidency Christmas Devotional.

No one can measure the effect of an unselfish act of kindness. By small, simple things great things do indeed come to pass. Of course gifts given and gifts received make Christmas special. For many children Christmas Eve is a very long night as they look forward with eager anticipation to the gifts Santa brings, which is why children love Santa Claus. Let me share what someone once said about Santa Claus: First of all, he's a joyous individual. People are attracted to joyous individuals as filings are attracted to a magnet. Next, Santa Claus is interested in making others happy. He increases the happy moments in the life of everyone he meets. He loves his work; he gets fun out of his job. He is childlike, simple, humble, sincere,and forgiving. Finally, he is a giver. His philosophy is to give himself away in service. He is a friend to everyone. He smiles.Perhaps you and I could attain greater happiness if we emulated Santa Claus a little more, for his way is the way of the Infant Jesus also. We can all reach out like Santa Claus and spread happiness to those around us.

[ChelC]

I am coming out of retirement for today just to say thanks Darren! This thread has me waxing nostalgic. Santa is fun. Santa is awesome. And in case I was not clear - I really like Santa!

We speak of, learn of, and pray to our Savior every day. Once a year Santa comes to remind us of the joy of giving and having FUN. Nuttin' wrong with Santa.

Thanks Darren. Keep up the fight for good old St. Nick!

[signing off until next Christmas...]

[buffalo_girl]

There is mention of St. Nicholas in the Holy Bible:

Zechariah 2

6 ¶Ho, ho, come forth, and flee from the land of the north, saith the Lord: for I have spread you abroad as the four winds of the heaven, saith the Lord.

Did anyone read the Google book link I posted above?

Seems like we should be able to give credit to men and women who exemplified the teachings and example of Christ from other periods of history.

Puts me in mind of another scripture:

Matthew 23

24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

[Darren]

I am coming out of retirement for today just to say thanks Darren! This thread has me waxing nostalgic. Santa is fun. Santa is awesome. And in case I was not clear - I really like Santa!

We speak of, learn of, and pray to our Savior every day. Once a year Santa comes to remind us of the joy of giving and having FUN. Nuttin' wrong with Santa.

Thanks Darren. Keep up the fight for good old St. Nick!

[signing off until next Christmas...]

Wow, I am honored ChelC, I haven't seen you since last May.

And thank you!

[RaVaN]

Alot of cherry picking of what to believe and not to believe. I personally don't celebrate any holiday beyond Thanksgiving and Independence Day. In my view, the celebration of Christ, the joy of giving, giving thanks, and suchlike are things to be done at all times of year. In terms of things like Santa, Halloween, Valentine's day, and other things I tend to refer to Jeremiah 10:1-6

1Hear ye the word which the Lord speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:

2 Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

6 Forasmuch as there is none like unto thee, O Lord; thou art great, and thy name is great in might.

This is pretty much my standard for most things. People can feel free to believe what they wish, but I generally let the scriptures guide me more than fables and legends of the past except as they agree with the scriptures. That is just my view, but the majority of these arguements just boil down to I like Santa/I don't like Santa. I am firmly in the "I don't like Santa" camp.

[skmo]

I think it's funny that people talk about ruining Christmas for kids by telling them Santa isn't real. When they dress up on Halloween and people ask what they are and they say "I'm a dog" or whatever, they know they're not really a dog. So just be up front with the child and let him know that Santa's make believe, like watching a movie or dressing up on Halloween. He makes the holiday season more fun, but don't expect him to drop down the chimney and put presents under the tree.

Children enjoy the magic of stories without having to believe they're true, so why not with Santa?

If your children understand the concept of Santa as a make-believe story of a real concept of giving gift, I'm all for it. However, some kids are more confused about reality than others are. That's what being a kid is: Learning perspective on the world. I always loved Christmas, it was my favorite holiday. The day after Thanksgiving was always for putting up the tree and bringing out the Christmas decorations, and the whole season was about making food and taking it to people or making/giving gifts to people who needed them. However, I can't remember a time when I honestly believed that there was a jolly fat guy who spied on me all year long or magically came down the chimney to leave presents for us. I understood that Santa was a story that you told little kids, like Aesop's Fables or Mother Goose stories.

What I defintely don't agree with is making kids believe in the literal story of Santa Claus. I'm talking about some of my church friends who were leaving Primary with as firm a belief in Santa as they had in Jesus. One girl I had a crush on in 6th Grade was adamant that Santa brought all her presents, she was even convinced she saw part of his coat once as he left her house. We do all we can to teach children Jesus lived and died for us. We do this because it's real. Why mislead kids about something we know isn't real?

[jdawg1012]

Alot of cherry picking of what to believe and not to believe. I personally don't celebrate any holiday beyond Thanksgiving and Independence Day. In my view, the celebration of Christ, the joy of giving, giving thanks, and suchlike are things to be done at all times of year. In terms of things like Santa, Halloween, Valentine's day, and other things I tend to refer to Jeremiah 10:1-6

1Hear ye the word which the Lord speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:

2 Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

6 Forasmuch as there is none like unto thee, O Lord; thou art great, and thy name is great in might.

This is pretty much my standard for most things. People can feel free to believe what they wish, but I generally let the scriptures guide me more than fables and legends of the past except as they agree with the scriptures. That is just my view, but the majority of these arguements just boil down to I like Santa/I don't like Santa. I am firmly in the "I don't like Santa" camp.

An excellent post. In general, I now only celebrate Thanksgiving to enjoy good company. There are certain foods our family (meaning my parents), ate on certain Holidays, such as Corned Beef and Cabbage on St. Patrick's Day, and Pork and Sauerkraut on New Years, that I still do, but don't have any parties or such. It's essentially any other day of the year, except the meal is generally pre-planned.

[Darren]

Jesus Christ gave the lost tribes of Israel their days of accountability, which are their true holidays.

When Jesus Christ appeared to the lost tribes of Israel, he told them to work together by looking to him, “the Law”. And that their working together by the Law was to be accountable annually and quarterly.

The beginning night/day of this annually ran Quarter System set up by Jesus Christ is the Dividing Night, said in German literally as “Weihnachten,” also called in our day the Winter Solstice and is the true New Year’s Day.

Jesus Christ asked His Church to affix their purposes to his purpose (Moses 1:39) by the process of making and keeping goals. The 12 days of Christmas are the 12 planning days for the next 12 months goals, and this is where we also get New Years Resolutions from.

Jesus Christ gave them his purpose, and made them accountable to his purpose in quarterly accounting periods, Germanic people have traditionally operated on the Quarter System. The quarter system is still an accounting period today, for government and in the Church.

The end of the first and third quarters were the times that the people's elected representatives got together in parliament. Our annual General Conference is for the end of the first quarter, to incorporate the annual goals of the local units with the whole Church and the Semi-annual General Conference for the end of the third quarter to keep things on track. Stake and Ward Conferences are for the second and fourth quarters.

As usual the Germanic people were typically quite successful, and merry making happened at the end of each quarter, to celebrate the accomplishment of that quarter toward the annual goals. Eastertide, Midsummer, All Hallows and Weihnachten were the names of the holy days to celebrate in their community for the accomplishments of the previous quarter. Weihnachten was special because it was the end of the last quarter, and the time to renew commitments for the New Year.

So what is the true story of the Dividing Night/Weihnachten?

Jesus Christ is remembered as the Weihnachtsmann, because He gave them his purpose, and made them accountable to his purpose from the start of his life on an annual basis.

The first Weihnachten in Stockholm, Sweden, not far from that first Law Temple, was on about 43 A.D. And the Weihnachtsmann rewarded those children who worked so hard for their part in fulfilling His purpose.

The Dividing Night is all about Jesus Christ and His Purpose, IT IS ALL ABOUT HIS GOSPEL.

The four primary holidays of the Church were at the four times of accounting. These Holidays are 1. Eastertide, 2. Midsummer, 3. All Hallows, 4. Weihnachten. These times are for getting together to celebrate the joy in accomplishment of the Lord’s goal and for the perfecting of His Purpose.

Eastertide has continued to this day as a cultural tradition, although somewhat corrupted by the Catholic Assembly. If you take 3 months and add it to Weihnachten you get March 21. Eastertide and the General Conference of the First Quarter should be held on or just after this date.

Midsummer Celebration, June 21, has also continued to this day among Scandinavian decedents.

All Hallows/All Saints Day has continued in part in the more corrupt version of Halloween. And should be held on or just after September 21.

Weihnachten is still the biggie! December is the Yule/Peace month. The year is wrapping up, and the excitement of accomplishing the past year’s goals towards the Lord’s Purpose is huge. Weihnachten was December 21 and the New Year Celebration of Weihnachten included the 12 days of Weihnachten, 12 days to plan the next 12 months. Odin used the first twelve days of the solar new year to thank everyone for their faithfulness to the Law during the past year and for all of the work that the people, young and old, had done for his Purpose. Jesus would drive around, in a sleigh drawn by reindeer, to congratulate the children on their faithfulness to his purpose and bring them beautiful gifts.

The administrators of the Catholic Assembly State wanted the Nordics to instead seek their purpose. And still do. Efforts to subvert and destroy the true message of Weihnachten have come from and continue from the Catholic Assembly administrators.

[MsEva]

Jesus Christ gave the lost tribes of Israel their days of accountability, which are their true holidays.

When Jesus Christ appeared to the lost tribes of Israel, he told them to work together by looking to him, “the Law”. And that their working together by the Law was to be accountable annually and quarterly.

The beginning night/day of this annually ran Quarter System set up by Jesus Christ is the Dividing Night, said in German literally as “Weihnachten,” also called in our day the Winter Solstice and is the true New Year’s Day.

Jesus Christ asked His Church to affix their purposes to his purpose (Moses 1:39) by the process of making and keeping goals. The 12 days of Christmas are the 12 planning days for the next 12 months goals, and this is where we also get New Years Resolutions from.

Jesus Christ gave them his purpose, and made them accountable to his purpose in quarterly accounting periods, Germanic people have traditionally operated on the Quarter System. The quarter system is still an accounting period today, for government and in the Church.

The end of the first and third quarters were the times that the people's elected representatives got together in parliament. Our annual General Conference is for the end of the first quarter, to incorporate the annual goals of the local units with the whole Church and the Semi-annual General Conference for the end of the third quarter to keep things on track. Stake and Ward Conferences are for the second and fourth quarters.

As usual the Germanic people were typically quite successful, and merry making happened at the end of each quarter, to celebrate the accomplishment of that quarter toward the annual goals. Eastertide, Midsummer, All Hallows and Weihnachten were the names of the holy days to celebrate in their community for the accomplishments of the previous quarter. Weihnachten was special because it was the end of the last quarter, and the time to renew commitments for the New Year.

So what is the true story of the Dividing Night/Weihnachten?

Jesus Christ is remembered as the Weihnachtsmann, because He gave them his purpose, and made them accountable to his purpose from the start of his life on an annual basis.

The first Weihnachten in Stockholm, Sweden, not far from that first Law Temple, was on about 43 A.D. And the Weihnachtsmann rewarded those children who worked so hard for their part in fulfilling His purpose.

The Dividing Night is all about Jesus Christ and His Purpose, IT IS ALL ABOUT HIS GOSPEL.

The four primary holidays of the Church were at the four times of accounting. These Holidays are 1. Eastertide, 2. Midsummer, 3. All Hallows, 4. Weihnachten. These times are for getting together to celebrate the joy in accomplishment of the Lord’s goal and for the perfecting of His Purpose.

Eastertide has continued to this day as a cultural tradition, although somewhat corrupted by the Catholic Assembly. If you take 3 months and add it to Weihnachten you get March 21. Eastertide and the General Conference of the First Quarter should be held on or just after this date.

Midsummer Celebration, June 21, has also continued to this day among Scandinavian decedents.

All Hallows/All Saints Day has continued in part in the more corrupt version of Halloween. And should be held on or just after September 21.

Weihnachten is still the biggie! December is the Yule/Peace month. The year is wrapping up, and the excitement of accomplishing the past year’s goals towards the Lord’s Purpose is huge. Weihnachten was December 21 and the New Year Celebration of Weihnachten included the 12 days of Weihnachten, 12 days to plan the next 12 months. Odin used the first twelve days of the solar new year to thank everyone for their faithfulness to the Law during the past year and for all of the work that the people, young and old, had done for his Purpose. Jesus would drive around, in a sleigh drawn by reindeer, to congratulate the children on their faithfulness to his purpose and bring them beautiful gifts.

The administrators of the Catholic Assembly State wanted the Nordics to instead seek their purpose. And still do. Efforts to subvert and destroy the true message of Weihnachten have come from and continue from the Catholic Assembly administrators.

Very interesting.

[RaVaN]

I don't seem to recall seeing any gospel of the lost tribes...meaning that unless it has been revealed all what you are basing action on are fables or legends that may or may not be true and are not in evidence to their truthfulness by revelation or scripture except as shadows of truth. You like Santa Claus, I don't mind that you do since it is your choice. The scriptural Jesus would be a better choice in my mind rather than half-remembered fables or legends that may or may not be true. In some cases I see it as trying to tie faith to culture, but what you end up is a just-so story that the only way to determine the historical truth of it is via divine aid. I have done similiar things with my ethnic background. The circumstantial evidence is there in some cases...but the truth of it as revealed by God is not.

[jdawg1012]

I don't seem to recall seeing any gospel of the lost tribes...meaning that unless it has been revealed all what you are basing action on are fables or legends that may or may not be true and are not in evidence to their truthfulness by revelation or scripture except as shadows of truth. You like Santa Claus, I don't mind that you do since it is your choice. The scriptural Jesus would be a better choice in my mind rather than half-remembered fables or legends that may or may not be true. In some cases I see it as trying to tie faith to culture, but what you end up is a just-so story that the only way to determine the historical truth of it is via divine aid. I have done similiar things with my ethnic background. The circumstantial evidence is there in some cases...but the truth of it as revealed by God is not.

Let me be the first to say... "Oh, SNAP!" #:-s

[jbalm]

I just gotta say that Santa is awesome.

The Grinch, on the other hand...

[A Random Phrase]

I did bring it up with this quote from the Ensign:

I did miss it. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. And thanks for that history lesson.

[A Random Phrase]

I think it's funny that people talk about ruining Christmas for kids by telling them Santa isn't real. When they dress up on Halloween and people ask what they are and they say "I'm a dog" or whatever, they know they're not really a dog. So just be up front with the child and let him know that Santa's make believe, like watching a movie or dressing up on Halloween. He makes the holiday season more fun, but don't expect him to drop down the chimney and put presents under the tree.

Children enjoy the magic of stories without having to believe they're true, so why not with Santa?

Exactly. That's what we did when I was a kid, and what I did with my kids. We all loved Christmas ( even if it is a pagan holiday - :ymdevil: )

[A Random Phrase]

I could scarce believe my eyes (though after years of lurking, should have been steeled for it), that there really was a thread bemoaning to much solemn worship of Christ during CHRISTMAS, at an activity of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

I was a bit surprised, too, but figured it was a sign of what this world is coming to.

[Andrew52]

I just gotta say that Santa is awesome.

The Grinch, on the other hand...

[Darren]

I have a theory about this apparent cultural move over the past about 50 years, as I have noticed, a shift in the culture of the Church. For the past 25 years or so I have seen that there has been a movement towards banning and dismissing Santa from the culture of the Church, I think it is an indication of bigger things happening as well, and indicates something is afoot and in flux, at least from what it has been.

Here is my theory: 50 or so years ago the culture in the church was based around the common life of the blue-collar worker, business operators, farmers and the like, and I believe that these people did not subscribe to the rhetoric of experts, scientists, philosophers and the like. Our parents and grandparents lived a common life blessed with timeless common sense, ancestral faith, love and looking for the better in life. Santa just made sense, and he did not represent materialism for this older generation.

Then over the years, and to the present, a cultural change has been underway in the church. Which I believe is from an inordinate preoccupation with getting a Degree from those wearing the Robes of a False Priesthood, as we have seen an obsession to get "arm of flesh" magic pieces of paper, from Aristotle and his Byzantine and Babylonian State Culture, to be part of those people and culture who operate their lives around the rhetoric of "the smart people."

By our people focusing on University Degrees granted by The Orthodoxy of Satan's Smarties we have lowered the value of living life by the believing part of or eternal beings.

I am 48 years old, and I believe in Santa. Not in the materialistic Santa some of you see when you think of him. But the Santa who gave gifts to the children in Scandinavia for their obedience to living by the law that Jesus Christ taught them to live by, shortly after he came unto them in the North. According to the Icelandic Sagas, Santa/Odin/Christ taught the tribes of Israel to live their lives by an Oath, to look to him, and Christmas/"the dividing night" was set up by him as a yearly accounting, for those living by the Law. The Catholic Assembly made the propaganda that we have that Jesus was born at the Solar New Year, or the holiday that Christ set up among the Nordics for remembrance of their Oath and covenant to live by the Law. Christ did not set up Christmas among the Nordic tribes of Israel as a remembrance of his birthday, he set Christmas up so that they would remember him in all that they do.

I will not despise Santa like I see so many LDS doing now days, because unlike them I understand the true history and tradition.

God Bless,
Darren

[Etosha]

:ymapplause:

[MsEva]

I just gotta say that Santa is awesome.

The Grinch, on the other hand...

Great pic, and so true...unfortunately!

[HeirofNumenor]

I am 48 years old, and I believe in Santa. Not in the materialistic Santa some of you see when you think of him. But the Santa who gave gifts to the children in Scandinavia for their obedience to living by the law that Jesus Christ taught them to live by, shortly after he came unto them in the North. According to the Icelandic Sagas, Santa/Odin/Christ taught the tribes of Israel to live their lives by an Oath, to look to him, and Christmas/"the dividing night" was set up by him as a yearly accounting, for those living by the Law. The Catholic Assembly made the propaganda that we have that Jesus was born at the Solar New Year, or the holiday that Christ set up among the Nordics for remembrance of their Oath and covenant to live by the Law. Christ did not set up Christmas among the Nordic tribes of Israel as a remembrance of his birthday, he set Christmas up so that they would remember him in all that they do.

I will not despise Santa like I see so many LDS doing now days, because unlike them I understand the true history and tradition.

I'll second the :ymapplause:

[erichard]

...What do you think. ...

Hi,

If the Lord did not want the Latter-day Saints to Celebrate Christmas, he would have given a revelation to the Prophet Joseph telling them to cease and desist.

However, that was then. Now the times of the Gentiles are over. So as the Lord restores His covenant and all former blessings to His people Israel, we must be ready to receive more revelation as taught in AoF 9.

I am certain that whatever value there may have been in Christmas and other non-Scriptural holidays, that what the Lord will give to Israel will not only be as good-- it will be far better. Christmas may have been good-- surely better than pure paganism-- but what is coming in Zion will be the best. Is not Good an enemy of Best?

In my faith, in December 1979 (2BC 52 ) the Lord did reveal by revelation to His servant that His people Israel are to no longer celebrate Christmas. If you wonder why, you should read this Section 52 in this file:

http://www.2bc.info/pdf/Sabbath&.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Richard

[JohnnyL]

I think "Santa" is really Satan...my evidence?

Firstly, Santa is just an anagram of Satan

Secondly, he keeps a list of good and bad little girls and boys. To the good he brings gifts to tempt them into evil and to the bad he brings coal which is representative of hell they will go to.

Thirdly, the sterotypical Satan is dressed in red...ditto for Santa.

Fourthly, Old Nick and Saint Nick shows the same relationship as Santa and Satan.

Fifthly, lives at the North Pole...basicly running a frozen hell with elves(same as demons).

Sixthly, climbs out of the hearth, in wintertime, meaning he crawls out of the fire...sound like anything?

A bit tongue in cheek, but personally believe that the celebration of the birth of Christ gives enough joy than to add in what I consider silliness.

And God is just an anagram of dog.
God gives us gifts to tempt us, and reminds us of hell.
God wears white... ditto for those in the insane asylum.
8-|