The Church Must Stand Independent

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mes5464
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Posts: 29570
Location: Seneca, South Carolina

The Church Must Stand Independent

Post by mes5464 »

I feel this goes along with the thread of Identifying the Gadiantons and Not Supporting Them. I want to explore how we can sand independent.
(H-8) The Church Must Stand Independent

The Lord has said that amid the tribulations in the last days the Church is “to stand independent above all other creatures beneath the celestial world” ( D&C 78:14 ). In order to do that, Elder Bruce R. McConkie explained, “the Church, which administers the gospel, and the Saints who have received the gospel, must be independent of all the powers of earth, as they work out their salvation—temporally and spiritually—with fear and trembling before the Lord!

Be it remembered that tribulations lie ahead.

Peace has been taken from the earth, the angels of destruction have begun their work, and their swords shall not be sheathed until the Prince of Peace comes to destroy the wicked and usher in the great Millennium. . . .

We must maintain our own health, sow our own gardens, store our own food, educate and train ourselves to handle the daily affairs of life. No one else can work out our salvation for us, either temporally or spiritually.

We are here on earth to care for the needs of our family members. Wives have claim on their husbands for their support, children upon their parents, parents upon their children, brothers upon each other, and relatives upon their kin.

It is the aim of the Church to help the Saints to care for themselves and, where need be, to make food and clothing and other necessities available, lest the Saints turn to the doles and evils of Babylon. To help care for the poor among them the Church must operate farms, grow vineyards, run dairies, manage factories, and ten thousand other things—all in such a way as to be independent of the powers of evil in the world.

“We do not know when the calamities and troubles of the last days will fall upon any of us as individuals or upon bodies of the Saints. The Lord deliberately withholds from us the day and hour of his coming and of the tribulations which shall precede it—all as part of the testing and probationary experiences of mortality. He simply tells us to watch and be ready.

We can rest assured that if we have done all in our power to prepare for whatever lies ahead, he will then help us with whatever else we need. . . .

“We do not say that all of the Saints will be spared and saved from the coming day of desolation. But we do say there is no promise of safety and no promise of security except for those who love the Lord and who are seeking to do all that he commands.” (In Conference Report, Apr. 1979, pp. 131–33; or Ensign, May 1979, p. 92–93 .)
What stands out to me is the following:
Take care of your own health.
Grow your own food.
Educate yourself (and I add, your children).
We should provide for our own families and they have a claim to their fathers for this support.
Avoid the doles of Babylon.
The church is operating farms, vineyards, dairies, factories, etc to meet the needs of the poor.

My observations of today:
We trust in man's medicine too much for our health care. The government is taking over all healthcare.
Our food chain has been contaminated by man and few Saints, if any, grow their own food.
We trust in public education which has proven to be a threat.
We Saints depend on employment with other companies instead of employing ourselves.
Many Saints are living off of the government/Babylon dole. Many are encouraged by church leaders to seek out government dole.
The church is in fact operating farms, vineyards, dairies, etc, however the products from such enterprises is only available to the needed and not day-to-day needs of families that could purchase these products if given the option.

Any comments or feedback?

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Henmasher
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Location: West Jordan, Utah

Re: The Church Must Stand Independent

Post by Henmasher »

I wonder how is it that the recommendation to go on the governments dole was considered and then determined as proper????
Can not an assignment temporaly go to the ward through administration of the Bishop. Bro Henmasher I have the assignment of doing this for Sister so and so or Bro so and so. Why and when will we learn to truly help each other? To cast off things of babylon and care for each other. I suppose the fact that Home Teaching is such a failure in most wards it is evident that we are truly selfish and seek not to employ or sustain each other.

All I can say is that the Lord will gather those that espouse those ideals and wish to live them. What you have is faithfull few that are starting to waste away at their brother and sisters vanity. Its get very hard somedays.

sbsion
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Re: The Church Must Stand Independent

Post by sbsion »

NO......the people MUST :(

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uglypitbull
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Re: The Church Must Stand Independent

Post by uglypitbull »

Good observations mes

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mes5464
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Posts: 29570
Location: Seneca, South Carolina

Re: The Church Must Stand Independent

Post by mes5464 »

sbsion wrote:NO......the people MUST :(
I agree. But the thread title is a direct quote from the institute manual I took it from.

D&C Institute Manual, Enrichment H, The Last Days

singyourwayhome
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Re: The Church Must Stand Independent

Post by singyourwayhome »

This explanation is from the LDS D&C Institute manual
How Will the Church "Stand Independent above All Other Creatures”?
The law of consecration was withdrawn by the Lord
because the Saints showed that they would not abide
by its laws (see D&C 105:2–6, 34). In 1936, under
direction of the First Presidency, the welfare program
Both temporal and spiritual needs receive emphasis in the Church.
was instituted, based on the same principles that
governed the Saints in the united order, such as love,
service, self-reliance, and consecration. The promise
that the Church would stand independent above all
other creatures (organizations, people, and so forth)
will be partially fulfilled through the implementation
of the welfare plan.
President Marion G. Romney said:
“I do not want to be a calamity howler. I don’t
know in detail what’s going to happen in the future.
I know what the prophets have predicted. But I tell
you that the welfare program, organized to enable us
to take care of our own needs, has not yet performed
the function that it was set up to perform. We will see
the day when we will live on what we produce.
“We’re living in the latter days. We’re living in the
days the prophets have told about from the time of
Enoch to the present day. We are living in the era just
preceding the second advent of the Lord Jesus Christ.
We are told to so prepare and live that we can be . . .
independent of every other creature beneath the
celestial kingdom. That is what we are to do.
“This welfare program was set up under
inspiration in the days of President Grant. It was
thoroughly analyzed and taught by his great
counselor, J. Reuben Clark, Jr. It is in basic principle
the same as the United Order. When we get so we
can live it, we will be ready for the United Order.
You brethren know that we will have to have a
people ready for that order in order to receive the
Savior when he comes.
“I know from my own experience and the
witnesses by the thousands that I have received of
the Spirit that this is the Lord’s work. It is to prepare
us. If you’ll think of the most sacred place you ever
have been, you’ll remember that the final thing that
we are to do is to be able and willing to consecrate all
that we have to the building up of the kingdom of
God, to care for our fellow men. When we do this
we’ll be ready for the coming of the Messiah.” (In
Conference Report, Apr. 1975, pp. 165–66.)
Additional material on the law of consecration
is found in Enrichment L in the Appendix
So, the short answer, according to what I see above, is to fully support the Welfare program, incorporate all its principles- at its heart are self-reliance and consecration- in our individual lives, and progress until the Church members are living off what we can produce and have the Law of Consecration brought back by the Savior.
Is that how you read it?

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laronius
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Re: The Church Must Stand Independent

Post by laronius »

Singyourwayhome I think you hit the nail on the head. Not only do we prepare ourselves in all things both spiritually and temporally but we do so with the realization that it's not about us. The law of consecration requires us to prepare ourselve fully and then turn right around and give it all back to the Lord if need be. The reason for standing independent is not just so the world does not drag us down with it, but so we can support others and help keep them from getting dragged down with it as well.

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mes5464
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 29570
Location: Seneca, South Carolina

Re: The Church Must Stand Independent

Post by mes5464 »

singyourwayhome wrote:This explanation is from the LDS D&C Institute manual
How Will the Church "Stand Independent above All Other Creatures”?
The law of consecration was withdrawn by the Lord
because the Saints showed that they would not abide
by its laws (see D&C 105:2–6, 34). In 1936, under
direction of the First Presidency, the welfare program
Both temporal and spiritual needs receive emphasis in the Church.
was instituted, based on the same principles that
governed the Saints in the united order, such as love,
service, self-reliance, and consecration. The promise
that the Church would stand independent above all
other creatures (organizations, people, and so forth)
will be partially fulfilled through the implementation
of the welfare plan.
President Marion G. Romney said:
“I do not want to be a calamity howler. I don’t
know in detail what’s going to happen in the future.
I know what the prophets have predicted. But I tell
you that the welfare program, organized to enable us
to take care of our own needs, has not yet performed
the function that it was set up to perform. We will see
the day when we will live on what we produce.
“We’re living in the latter days. We’re living in the
days the prophets have told about from the time of
Enoch to the present day. We are living in the era just
preceding the second advent of the Lord Jesus Christ.
We are told to so prepare and live that we can be . . .
independent of every other creature beneath the
celestial kingdom. That is what we are to do.
“This welfare program was set up under
inspiration in the days of President Grant. It was
thoroughly analyzed and taught by his great
counselor, J. Reuben Clark, Jr. It is in basic principle
the same as the United Order. When we get so we
can live it, we will be ready for the United Order.
You brethren know that we will have to have a
people ready for that order in order to receive the
Savior when he comes.
“I know from my own experience and the
witnesses by the thousands that I have received of
the Spirit that this is the Lord’s work. It is to prepare
us. If you’ll think of the most sacred place you ever
have been, you’ll remember that the final thing that
we are to do is to be able and willing to consecrate all
that we have to the building up of the kingdom of
God, to care for our fellow men. When we do this
we’ll be ready for the coming of the Messiah.” (In
Conference Report, Apr. 1975, pp. 165–66.)
Additional material on the law of consecration
is found in Enrichment L in the Appendix
So, the short answer, according to what I see above, is to fully support the Welfare program, incorporate all its principles- at its heart are self-reliance and consecration- in our individual lives, and progress until the Church members are living off what we can produce and have the Law of Consecration brought back by the Savior.
Is that how you read it?
I agree with this statement and with your interpretation of the statement.

I am hoping to drive out the how of "members living independently". Something I don't see us being successful at right now.

singyourwayhome
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Posts: 1047
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Re: The Church Must Stand Independent

Post by singyourwayhome »

The 'living independently' part has not happened this year- my garden was an embarrasment when my parents visited...
and my food storage hasn't been inventoried in 18 months. But it's there.

The only way for the Church to be independent is for its members to be highly self-reliant with the goal of helping others, as Laronius said. I've got to improve there.

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bobhenstra
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Posts: 7236
Location: Central Utah

Re: The Church Must Stand Independent

Post by bobhenstra »

When AHBL (all hell breaks loose) you'll see Mormonism at it's best. Now, I don't grow a garden, it's too hard on my old bones. However, I have a lot of heirloom veggie seeds in storage, and I can instruct those who need the seed how to get older seed to germinate. I purchase several cans of seeds every year! That's how I'll help! But I also have a lot of stuff to barter, cooking oil for example, and----bullets!

My Grandmother on my mothers side always scoffed at worriers, she would tell me that when the great depression struck nobody had anything, it took the people of Utah 1 year to adjust, then everything was ok! I suspect things will be much harder this time around, but I'm prepared for this one, I listened to the stories, and I learned!

If we're not prepared after all the warnings, who's to blame? Looking into the hungry accusing eyes of your own child could get difficult!

Bob

JohnnyL
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Posts: 9830

Re: The Church Must Stand Independent

Post by JohnnyL »

mes5464 wrote:I feel this goes along with the thread of Identifying the Gadiantons and Not Supporting Them. I want to explore how we can sand independent.
(H-8) The Church Must Stand Independent

The Lord has said that amid the tribulations in the last days the Church is “to stand independent above all other creatures beneath the celestial world” ( D&C 78:14 ). In order to do that, Elder Bruce R. McConkie explained, “the Church, which administers the gospel, and the Saints who have received the gospel, must be independent of all the powers of earth, as they work out their salvation—temporally and spiritually—with fear and trembling before the Lord!

Be it remembered that tribulations lie ahead.

Peace has been taken from the earth, the angels of destruction have begun their work, and their swords shall not be sheathed until the Prince of Peace comes to destroy the wicked and usher in the great Millennium. . . .

We must maintain our own health, sow our own gardens, store our own food, educate and train ourselves to handle the daily affairs of life. No one else can work out our salvation for us, either temporally or spiritually.

We are here on earth to care for the needs of our family members. Wives have claim on their husbands for their support, children upon their parents, parents upon their children, brothers upon each other, and relatives upon their kin.

It is the aim of the Church to help the Saints to care for themselves and, where need be, to make food and clothing and other necessities available, lest the Saints turn to the doles and evils of Babylon. To help care for the poor among them the Church must operate farms, grow vineyards, run dairies, manage factories, and ten thousand other things—all in such a way as to be independent of the powers of evil in the world.

“We do not know when the calamities and troubles of the last days will fall upon any of us as individuals or upon bodies of the Saints. The Lord deliberately withholds from us the day and hour of his coming and of the tribulations which shall precede it—all as part of the testing and probationary experiences of mortality. He simply tells us to watch and be ready.

We can rest assured that if we have done all in our power to prepare for whatever lies ahead, he will then help us with whatever else we need. . . .

“We do not say that all of the Saints will be spared and saved from the coming day of desolation. But we do say there is no promise of safety and no promise of security except for those who love the Lord and who are seeking to do all that he commands.” (In Conference Report, Apr. 1979, pp. 131–33; or Ensign, May 1979, p. 92–93 .)
What stands out to me is the following:
Take care of your own health.
Grow your own food.
Educate yourself (and I add, your children).
We should provide for our own families and they have a claim to their fathers for this support.
Avoid the doles of Babylon.
The church is operating farms, vineyards, dairies, factories, etc to meet the needs of the poor.

My observations of today:
We trust in man's medicine too much for our health care. The government is taking over all healthcare.
Our food chain has been contaminated by man and few Saints, if any, grow their own food.
We trust in public education which has proven to be a threat.
We Saints depend on employment with other companies instead of employing ourselves.
Many Saints are living off of the government/Babylon dole. Many are encouraged by church leaders to seek out government dole.
The church is in fact operating farms, vineyards, dairies, etc, however the products from such enterprises is only available to the needed and not day-to-day needs of families that could purchase these products if given the option.

Any comments or feedback?
Agree. It's not easy, when you're almost dying in the current system. But hopefully it's an impetus to get out of the bad parts of it and get into the better plan of the Lord.

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etnalf
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Posts: 62

Re: The Church Must Stand Independent

Post by etnalf »

The way that the Master would have us stand is in Charity. The law of consecration is as much, if not more, a spiritual law as a temporal one. All the wealth, storage, and provision we can muster will do us no good if we do not have the love and trust in each other to stand together as bothers and sisters in the Lord, wielding the power of the Priesthood of God, and showing the Light of the Gospel to the ends of the earth. Standing independent must also include this element of Charity, or else we as a people will fall when the time comes when our faith in each other is tested. Remember that Zion is the pure in heart... and the pure in heart shall see God. May we all be worthy of standing at that day when the Lord comes again to rule as King of Kings.

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kathyn
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Location: UT

Re: The Church Must Stand Independent

Post by kathyn »

etnalf, thanks for your thoughtful post. I agree.

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Fairminded
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Posts: 1956

Re: The Church Must Stand Independent

Post by Fairminded »

I'm firmly convinced that true self-sufficiency, being able to wean yourself off of not only external sources, but external economies as well, is one of the best things you can do for yourself temporally, and will be a great boost spiritually as well. It's not an easy thing to do, especially when evil and conspiring men are pushing us AWAY from self-sufficiency, but there's a lot that members can be doing, even small changes that would add up to big differences, that they've yet to start doing.

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