Was America inhabited when Lehi arrived?

[superslob]

Hello,

I wanted to make this a poll but I guess I can't do that here.

1. Do you believe in the historicity of the book of Ether in the BOM? If no you can stop here.
2. Do you believe there were inhabitants already in the land when Lehi arrived?
3. Do you believe that Ether was the only one left alive after the war at the end of Ether?
4. Do you give any credibility to the study of the languages and the DNA research that have been performed.
My answers are no to 1.

[Walden]

Hello,

I wanted to make this a poll but I guess I can't do that here.

1. Do you believe in the historicity of the book of Ether in the BOM? If no you can stop here.
2. Do you believe there were inhabitants already in the land when Lehi arrived?
3. Do you believe that Ether was the only one left alive after the war at the end of Ether?
4. Do you give any credibility to the study of the languages and the DNA research that have been performed.
My answers are no to 1.

1. Yes.
2. Yes, there where. The people of Zarahemla, also within the first 20 years after arriving at the promised land they had wars. We know almost the exact amount of people who came with Lego and that is impossible unless there where people already there.
3. No, Coriantumr was too. He was found by the people of Zarahemla, who brought him until he passed away.
4. Yes, there is some credibility. Did you know they have done recent studies of the native American gene and have discovered that it is mostly European?

Christ said he has many sheep. We don't have their records or there stories, so we have absolutely no idea how many civilizations have sprung up and fallen by the hand of the almighty God

[marc]

Hello,

I wanted to make this a poll but I guess I can't do that here.

1. Do you believe in the historicity of the book of Ether in the BOM? If no you can stop here.
2. Do you believe there were inhabitants already in the land when Lehi arrived?
3. Do you believe that Ether was the only one left alive after the war at the end of Ether?
4. Do you give any credibility to the study of the languages and the DNA research that have been performed.
My answers are no to 1.

1. Yes.
2. Yes, there where. The people of Zarahemla, also within the first 20 years after arriving at the promised land they had wars. We know almost the exact amount of people who came with Lego and that is impossible unless there where people already there.
3. No, Coriantumr was too. He was found by the people of Zarahemla, who brought him until he passed away.
4. Yes, there is some credibility. Did you know they have done recent studies of the native American gene and have discovered that it is mostly European?

Christ said he has many sheep. We don't have their records or there stories, so we have absolutely no idea how many civilizations have sprung up and fallen by the hand of the almighty God

+1

[sbsion]

yup..........love those "
cows"

[durangout]

Hello,

I wanted to make this a poll but I guess I can't do that here. Actually you can.

1. Do you believe in the historicity of the book of Ether in the BOM? If no you can stop here. Yes.
2. Do you believe there were inhabitants already in the land when Lehi arrived? Yes; but I mean in addition to any people mentioned in the BoM. I think the BoM peoples were a timy fraction of the Amerinids.
3. Do you believe that Ether was the only one left alive after the war at the end of Ether? No.
4. Do you give any credibility to the study of the languages and the DNA research that have been performed. Yes.

My answers are no to 1.

Your answer is "no" to #1? Please explain what you mean by that. What are you answers to the other questions?

[Matthew.B]

1. Do you believe in the historicity of the book of Ether in the BOM? If no you can stop here.

Definitely.

2. Do you believe there were inhabitants already in the land when Lehi arrived?

Yes- probably more than just the Jaredites, too. I don't think that such a gigantic landmass would hold only one nation that could destroy itself in one great battle. There are many records we don't have.

3. Do you believe that Ether was the only one left alive after the war at the end of Ether?

No, Coriantumr and probably numerous small pockets of the righteous.

4. Do you give any credibility to the study of the languages and the DNA research that have been performed.

I don't know anything about them. I usually don't pay too much attention to such research because the way the scientific establishment is set up, any real hard evidence supporting BoM historicity would also support Jewish/Christian belief- and as such any evidence is suppressed or obfuscated. But, someone more versed in the sciences than myself could sift through and gain precious insights.

[superslob]

Hello,

I wanted to make this a poll but I guess I can't do that here. Actually you can.

1. Do you believe in the historicity of the book of Ether in the BOM? If no you can stop here. Yes.
2. Do you believe there were inhabitants already in the land when Lehi arrived? Yes; but I mean in addition to any people mentioned in the BoM. I think the BoM peoples were a timy fraction of the Amerinids.
3. Do you believe that Ether was the only one left alive after the war at the end of Ether? No.
4. Do you give any credibility to the study of the languages and the DNA research that have been performed. Yes.

My answers are no to 1.

Your answer is "no" to #1? Please explain what you mean by that. What are you answers to the other questions?

Hello durangout,

1. I don't believe the events mentioned in the BOM actually happened. I do believe that the book of Ether teaches that Ether was the only one left alive within a large radius.
2. I think the BOM (Ether) teaches that all the privious inhabitants were killed and that the Lehi group, and the other group that the BOM claims that came over at approximately the same time were the only ones here. This is based on my reading of the last couple chapters of Ether.
3. I believe the BOM teaches that he was.
4. I haven't really studied there research but yes I assume they are following SOP.

[firefighter007]

There definately were people here when Lehi arrived. The people of Zarahemla, for one, and I'm sure there were others. I'm not positive about how to explain the DNA question besides maybe we are looking in the wrong place. I just got finished reading a book about the Mound Building people who occupied the eastern part of what is now the United states. When the mounds were excavated evidence was found of a white race that occupied that region. Also there were many tablets found which has Egyptian writings on it. I know that "science" claims that there is no proof of the people of Lehi on this continent but I believe there has been much evidence that has been held back from the public knowledge.

[superslob]

Hello firefighter,

I'm sure there have been people living here all along. The question I have is with regards to the last couple chapters of the book of Ether. Does the book of Ether teach that all the inhabitants were wiped out except of course for Ether?

[Matthew.B]

It teaches that, of the Jaredite nation, all were destroyed except for Ether and Coriantumr. At least, that's the impression that the editor (Moroni) leaves us with- there is an actual record of Ether, written by Ether, that we don't have.

[kenh]

Hello,

I wanted to make this a poll but I guess I can't do that here. Actually you can.

1. Do you believe in the historicity of the book of Ether in the BOM? If no you can stop here. Yes.
2. Do you believe there were inhabitants already in the land when Lehi arrived? Yes; but I mean in addition to any people mentioned in the BoM. I think the BoM peoples were a timy fraction of the Amerinids.
3. Do you believe that Ether was the only one left alive after the war at the end of Ether? No.
4. Do you give any credibility to the study of the languages and the DNA research that have been performed. Yes.

My answers are no to 1.

Your answer is "no" to #1? Please explain what you mean by that. What are you answers to the other questions?

Hello durangout,

1. I don't believe the events mentioned in the BOM actually happened. I do believe that the book of Ether teaches that Ether was the only one left alive within a large radius.
2. I think the BOM (Ether) teaches that all the privious inhabitants were killed and that the Lehi group, and the other group that the BOM claims that came over at approximately the same time were the only ones here. This is based on my reading of the last couple chapters of Ether.
3. I believe the BOM teaches that he was.
4. I haven't really studied there research but yes I assume they are following SOP.

Dear Superslob,
If you do not know by the power of the Holy Ghost that everything that the Book of Mormon says took place di take place, then I strongly plead with you to re-read each and every word and ponder deeply in your heart and fast and pray fervently for that witness. I bear you my witness that the events of the BofM are historical fact and are true events and principles,doctrines and the word of God. In jesus' name, amen.

[firefighter007]

Hello,



Hello durangout,

1. I don't believe the events mentioned in the BOM actually happened.

Superslob,

Out of curiosity, what do you mean by this? Do you believe in the BoM?

[sourcedist]

The below may be of interest to this thread.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Columb ... ic_contact" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Wilford]

Not only do I believe the Jaredites were completely destroyed to make way for the Nephites, I believe the old world prophets knew about it as well through revelation.

The allegory of the olive tree by Zenock, found in Jacob 5 has a very interesting part:

43 And behold this last, whose branch hath withered away, I did plant in a good spot of ground; yea, even that which was choice unto me above all other parts of the land of my vineyard.

44 And thou beheldest that I also cut down that which cumbered this spot of ground, that I might plant this tree in the stead thereof.


What's fascinating about this wording is that unlike the other references, the Lord doesn't "graft" in the branch... he plants it. The Nephites didn't mix, they started afresh.


One little known way of propagating olive trees is a process called truncheon. You bury a small branch... it will grow it's own roots without using a host tree. Fascinating stuff!

[Walden]

Hello firefighter,

I'm sure there have been people living here all along. The question I have is with regards to the last couple chapters of the book of Ether. Does the book of Ether teach that all the inhabitants were wiped out except of course for Ether?

Yes. Because don't forget not just the "mighty men" took part but also all the women and children. And when Ether prophesied to coriantumr he told him that he would see the entire destruction of his people.

The Americas are huge. Nations in that age could easily exist without knowledge of each other.

[Wilford]

It wasn't by accident. Ether 15:33 seems to say it was a deliberate move by Ether. "...he hid them in a manner that the people of Limhi did find them."

Further, we don't know if the location was the same where the battle was, or how long or how far Ether traveled after the end. The records says that the wars took place upon the entire face of the land, so it's not specific to location. ... just my two cents

[JohnnyL]

Hello,

1. Do you believe in the historicity of the book of Ether in the BOM? If no you can stop here.
2. Do you believe there were inhabitants already in the land when Lehi arrived?
3. Do you believe that Ether was the only one left alive after the war at the end of Ether?
4. Do you give any credibility to the study of the languages and the DNA research that have been performed.
My answers are no to 1.

1. Yes.
2. (What do you mean by "the land"?: In the Americas? On the same continent? In the same area? Living together with them? Generally:) No.
3. Yes (as above, just those two).
4. Sure--in their context.

Many "experts" propose 2. Yes, 3. No. I disagree. I've tried to read (at least some) of the articles on Others on bookofmormonnotes.wordpress.com that also disagree. The tone isn't always the best, and the format is not always easy to read, but some of the points show that there are lots of interpretation problems.

[superslob]

Dear Superslob,
If you do not know by the power of the Holy Ghost that everything that the Book of Mormon says took place di take place, then I strongly plead with you to re-read each and every word and ponder deeply in your heart and fast and pray fervently for that witness. I bear you my witness that the events of the BofM are historical fact and are true events and principles,doctrines and the word of God. In jesus' name, amen.

Hello kenh,

For the other responses to the thread I'm going to reread the last couple chapters of Ether again but I dicided to reply to you immediately to explain why I won't be following your advice. The following is a reading given by Edgar Cayce:

reading 262-23
12. (Q) [341]: How should we explain to others how to
interpret their experiences as signs of development towards
a true realization of fellowship?
(A) This has been given in how ones may answer their
experiences, have an answer to their experiences, in the way
of TRAINING the child (for we all are children) in its
development. Or, as this: When an experience of self is in
question, then ask self in the mental being so that the
answer may be yes or no, and with sincerity. Then, whether
the answer is yes or no, as to any question with spiritual
forces, then ACCEPT that. Then in meditation and prayer ASK
the Spirit whether THAT answer RECEIVED in the mental is yes
or no, and KNOW the Spirit answers! Doubt not! For he that
looks back, or doubts, is worse than the infidel. Remember
Lot's wife!

The main difference between the above and what you call the Moroni promise is the phrase "have an answer to their experiences". Many psychics have attempted to use their abilities to unlock the secrets of the universe. IMO none of them can be relied upon. Asking the HG whether or not a particular civilization existed would be asking something that isn't part of my experience. It isn't something I need to know. IMO it isn't the purpose of the HG to answer silly questions.

[NoGreaterLove]

Edgar Cayce:

Who is he, and what authority does he have to speak for God? Trust in the arm of flesh? As for me, I will follow God.

[SwissMrs&Pitchfire]

It's like Noah and the flood, a generalisation that everyone died. DNA studies up here show that pure Tlingit natives have dna common to the SouthWest U.S. natives meaning that there was an upmigration (chich is contrary to the assumed bering land bridge down migration theories):
http://juneauempire.com/stories/060310/ ... 4008.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The anthropologist used DNA samples he collected in Juneau two years ago to draw genetic connections not only among Native Southeast Alaskans but also to regions in other parts of the Americas.

Kemp found maternal lineages to Southern California and, surprisingly to him, a high frequency of genetic connections to the American Southwest.

"Now the question is, how did they get up here?" Kemp said.

[superslob]

Edgar Cayce:

Who is he, and what authority does he have to speak for God? Trust in the arm of flesh? As for me, I will follow God.

Hello no greater love,

I was attempting to appeal to common sense. If you consider that to be the arm of flesh then so be it. Is it logical to believe that the purpose (or one of the purposes) of the HG is to tell us stuff that has no significance in our day to day lives?

[SwissMrs&Pitchfire]

For the record the Holy Ghost answers all sorts of silly questions for me. I think it's because God loves me even if I am a little child to Him. But then I answer my kids silly questions honestly too. They have come to rely on it, and so have I.

[davedan]

Yes, as Hugh Nibley points out. The Jaredite civilization was destroyed but not exterminated.

There likely were survivors that escaped the war, fleeing to distant places. However, this scattering would mean they are not able to rebuild the whole society again due to specialization. They can't transmit on every skill to their children that was known by their people.

[superslob]

For the record the Holy Ghost answers all sorts of silly questions for me. I think it's because God loves me even if I am a little child to Him. But then I answer my kids silly questions honestly too. They have come to rely on it, and so have I.

hello pitchfire,

Maybe your right. Perhaps the holy ghost answers all questions. I'm also happy for you that you are able to tap in to him. I really am. My concern was with regards to accuracy. In my study of the Edgar Cayce material, it appears the information he provided to those who were sick had a high accuracy rate while those questions asked based on curiosity (that I like to call mysteries of the universe) had a low accuracy rate.

>>>It's like Noah and the flood, a generalisation that everyone died. DNA studies up here show that pure Tlingit natives have dna common to the SouthWest U.S. natives meaning that there was an upmigration (chich is contrary to the assumed bering land bridge down migration theories):<<<

I used to attend synogog for a few years. To the best of my knowledge there statement of faith is a belief that God is one. There is no pressure to believe this or that bible story. When I was LDS I never heard any testimonies stating they knew the book of Mormon was true in a generalized way.

me>>>1. I don't believe the events mentioned in the BOM actually happened. <<<

firefighter>>>Out of curiosity, what do you mean by this? Do you believe in the BoM?<<<

It means I believe the book of mormon in a generalized way.

davedan>>>Yes, as Hugh Nibley points out. The Jaredite civilization was destroyed but not exterminated.<<<

Thank you. The above indicates that the LDS churches stance is that the Jeredites weren't exterminated. With Nibley (assuming he used quotes from the BOM you need to check these quoptes to see if they really have the meaning he claims.

Anyway thank you everyone for your responses. I feel my question has been answered.

[Tribunal]

Hello kenh,

For the other responses to the thread I'm going to reread the last couple chapters of Ether again but I dicided to reply to you immediately to explain why I won't be following your advice. The following is a reading given by Edgar Cayce:

reading 262-23
12. (Q) [341]: How should we explain to others how to
interpret their experiences as signs of development towards
a true realization of fellowship?
(A) This has been given in how ones may answer their
experiences, have an answer to their experiences, in the way
of TRAINING the child (for we all are children) in its
development. Or, as this: When an experience of self is in
question, then ask self in the mental being so that the
answer may be yes or no, and with sincerity. Then, whether
the answer is yes or no, as to any question with spiritual
forces, then ACCEPT that. Then in meditation and prayer ASK
the Spirit whether THAT answer RECEIVED in the mental is yes
or no, and KNOW the Spirit answers! Doubt not! For he that
looks back, or doubts, is worse than the infidel. Remember
Lot's wife!

The main difference between the above and what you call the Moroni promise is the phrase "have an answer to their experiences". Many psychics have attempted to use their abilities to unlock the secrets of the universe. IMO none of them can be relied upon. Asking the HG whether or not a particular civilization existed would be asking something that isn't part of my experience. It isn't something I need to know. IMO it isn't the purpose of the HG to answer silly questions.

Edgar Casey!? Seriously!? You denounce the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon yet you cite Edgar Casey? Are you even a member of the Church?