So if the Church is in apostacy, then it would need to be restored, not cleansed or reformed? The Church will be cleansed, yes; but not restored, because it will not be in apostasy.Telavian wrote: ↑October 31st, 2024, 12:05 pmBased on your other comments, yes the "church" is a collection of people with each at individual levels of apostasy. Some 0% and some 100%.larsenb wrote: ↑October 31st, 2024, 11:56 am But what do you mean by "an organization in apostasy"? Far too nebulous and too much of an accusatory generalization. Your experience was with your immediate leaders who were, from what you said, treating you like garbage and not fulfilling their duties in a righteous manner.
I would say the church as a whole is in apostasy, because we have generationally been led astray by well-intentioned men who advocated for their opinions. This is manifest in false doctrines, false reliance on the handbook, and false reliance on the church itself. In my experience, God is spoken about however is secondary to the church itself.
Again, yes everyone is at a different point. However, in general if people are more in the apostasy camp, then I think it is safe to say the church is in apostasy.
Anyway, for those seeking clarification on whether the Church will end in apostasy in this dispensation, search: "this dispensation not to end in apostasy" (not 'exact words') on the Church website.
See also DC 13:1: Upon you my fellow servants, in the name of Messiah I confer the Priesthood of Aaron, which holds the keys of the ministering of angels, and of the gospel of repentance, and of baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; and this shall never be taken again from the earth, until the sons of Levi do offer again an offering unto the Lord in righteousness.
The Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants, and many current prophets and apostles, have all made it clear that one is baptized into the Church, not just baptized; in other words, you can't have baptism without the Church of Jesus Christ.