Mel Gibson's remarks on Catholic faith mirror growing belief among BoM believers disenfranchised with LDS institution

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BuriedTartaria
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Mel Gibson's remarks on Catholic faith mirror growing belief among BoM believers disenfranchised with LDS institution

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I don't like being overly critical of the LDS faith and if I have a criticism with it, I want to be consistent with that specific point of criticism with other things I do believe in. I'm just making this thread because I came across some remarks from Mel Gibson about the Catholic institution and I was just floored by how applicable they are to what I think is a growing amount of Book of Mormon believers that have grown disinterested, moved beyond, or lost faith in the LDS church (largely because of that institution's claims, if their claims were 'we're doing the best we can, we aren't quite prophets, seers or revelators' I think people would be less critical). I don't mean to make this thread to hurt the feelings of True Blue LDS folk. Well-meaning people (often with real belief in the Book of Mormon and/or belief in Joseph Smith being a prophet) with sincere questions and doubts weren't allowed to discuss these things in church settings and/or among family, so we've gone online to discuss these things and that can lead to True Blues coming across some unpopular opinions. It's not my intent to hurt feelings, it's just life.

Here's the remarks:
Mel Gibson wrote: Well you know, the institution, it was instituted by Christ. You know, but that doesn't mean that it can't be flawed. And there's a school of thought that says 'it isn't what it purports to be anymore, it's moved away from what it was intended to be and what it is'. There's a guy called bishop Vigano who says it's a counterfeit parallel church and it's running an entirely different religion.


He's describing the Catholic church originally being established by Christ but through apostasy, the institution just isn't what it claims to be anymore and is teaching an entirely different religion now than it used to (ask yourself how well the modern LDS institution follows the religion taught by the Book of Mormon, or the cosmic, deep religion taught by Joseph Smith). This literally sounds point for point, concept for concept, what a growing amount of BOOK OF MORMON BELIEVERS feel about the LDS institution. Eerie. Were the LDS institution and the Catholic institution both at one point something established by Christ that have since become salt that has lost its savor?

Remarks start at 3:13 in this video

As the video continues he discusses breaking down moments that give evidence of the Catholic church undergoing theological changing and odd leadership moves that signaled apostasy (and he uses that word) in his opinion.


I can't believe this video. I am impressed with Mel's understanding of spiritual truth:
Mel Gibson wrote: And this is in the next film I'm going to do. I'm going to try and tackle this question. That there are big realms. Spiritual realms. There's good. There's evil. And they are slugging it out. For the souls of mankind. And my question is, why are we even important? Little old, flawed humanity. Why are we important in that process? Where the big realms are slugging it out over us? And I think, there's bigger things at play here. And institutions that purport to touch on the divine are necessarily going to be affected by that slug fest that's going on between good and evil.
Joe wrote:And sometimes good gives up ground.
Mel wrote:Yeah, and maybe not on purpose.

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Niemand
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Re: Mel Gibson's remarks on Catholic faith mirror growing belief among BoM believers disenfranchised with LDS institutio

Post by Niemand »

Mel Gibson underwent a divorce and his church criticised it. That changed when he threatened to pull funding to it.

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Sirocco
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Re: Mel Gibson's remarks on Catholic faith mirror growing belief among BoM believers disenfranchised with LDS institutio

Post by Sirocco »

I think the LDS church should try to become what it was versus try and mould itself into the current year

Teancum1
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Re: Mel Gibson's remarks on Catholic faith mirror growing belief among BoM believers disenfranchised with LDS institutio

Post by Teancum1 »

Mel Gibson and Bishop Vigano are more Seers and revelators than what leading the LDS corporation.

JuneBug12000
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Re: Mel Gibson's remarks on Catholic faith mirror growing belief among BoM believers disenfranchised with LDS institutio

Post by JuneBug12000 »

This is not a new idea. In the early 1600s William Bradford and the Separatists (Pilgrims) were fighting the same corruption of religion.

Bradford described it as a tactic Satan has used throughout time.

When men take what God has revealed and and add to it "ceremonies" and "poperies" and make the gospel "a burden to men's souls."

The Separatist left England to practice the gospel as taught in the Bible.

They later left Lyden to save their children from the culture that led them away from their parents teachings as found in the Bible.

When they had decided to leave, they had two choices. One was reported as being beautiful and fertile and would afford them an easy life. The other was almost certain death.

He explains they chose almost certain death because I'd they went somewhere nice, others would follow and corrupt their children. God could help them endure hardship and protect them from certain death.

Even so, many died and there were some impossible choices places before them.

Near the end of the history, he speaks of how after all the hardship they prospered and even lamented, in their prosperity, that it forced them (the original settlers) to move farther apart. They kind of missed the early harder days when they were bound to each other for survival.

The part that relates to Mel Gibson's comments is in the very beginning of The History of Plymouth Plantation by William Bradford.

I've seen many of the same concerns about organized religion from as diverse a group of Christians as Amish, Baptists, Catholics, Mormons, Evangelicals, etc.

Everytime is see a news article that religion is in decline in America and abroad. I am not worried. In the past I would have thought it was people leaving God. Now I see so many who are leaving organized religion because they found God.

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Thinker
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Re: Mel Gibson's remarks on Catholic faith mirror growing belief among BoM believers disenfranchised with LDS institutio

Post by Thinker »

My old Muslim roommate used to tease how much she loved Mel Gibson, so i couldn’t help but smile as I watched the clip. Then my analytical mind saw Mel as clinging to confirmation bias & a little nervous, subconsciously knowing it. He sees and understands how corrupt the Catholic Church has become and yet trusts their narratives.

Joe Rogan is a good example of being willing to explore an idea that someone else presents without agreeing if he doesn’t agree.

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Thinker
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Re: Mel Gibson's remarks on Catholic faith mirror growing belief among BoM believers disenfranchised with LDS institutio

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JuneBug12000 wrote: January 10th, 2025, 11:18 am…Everytime is see a news article that religion is in decline in America and abroad. I am not worried. In the past I would have thought it was people leaving God. Now I see so many who are leaving organized religion because they found God.
I love that!
If we don’t worship God, then who or what do we worship?

I have looked & looked for a gathering that believes in God but not organized religious or political dogma. So far, no luck. Maybe, this is about “strait (difficult) and narrow is the way & few find it.” Maybe if it were a herd mentality, it would lose an essential godly aspect.

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Niemand
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Re: Mel Gibson's remarks on Catholic faith mirror growing belief among BoM believers disenfranchised with LDS institutio

Post by Niemand »

Thinker wrote: January 10th, 2025, 12:36 pm My old Muslim roommate used to tease how much she loved Mel Gibson, so i couldn’t help but smile as I watched the clip. Then my analytical mind saw Mel as clinging to confirmation bias & a little nervous, subconsciously knowing it. He sees and understands how corrupt the Catholic Church has become and yet trusts their narratives.

Joe Rogan is a good example of being willing to explore an idea that someone else presents without agreeing if he doesn’t agree.
I'm not sure he does 'trust their narratives". He is not a member of the Church of Rome and never has been. He belongs to a Sedevacantist group.

Bronco73idi
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Re: Mel Gibson's remarks on Catholic faith mirror growing belief among BoM believers disenfranchised with LDS institutio

Post by Bronco73idi »

Jesus Christ lived organized religion, why do we try to twist the truth?

Fight for the right
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Re: Mel Gibson's remarks on Catholic faith mirror growing belief among BoM believers disenfranchised with LDS institutio

Post by Fight for the right »

BuriedTartaria wrote: January 9th, 2025, 10:06 pm I don't like being overly critical of the LDS faith and if I have a criticism with it, I want to be consistent with that specific point of criticism with other things I do believe in. I'm just making this thread because I came across some remarks from Mel Gibson about the Catholic institution and I was just floored by how applicable they are to what I think is a growing amount of Book of Mormon believers that have grown disinterested, moved beyond, or lost faith in the LDS church (largely because of that institution's claims, if their claims were 'we're doing the best we can, we aren't quite prophets, seers or revelators' I think people would be less critical). I don't mean to make this thread to hurt the feelings of True Blue LDS folk. Well-meaning people (often with real belief in the Book of Mormon and/or belief in Joseph Smith being a prophet) with sincere questions and doubts weren't allowed to discuss these things in church settings and/or among family, so we've gone online to discuss these things and that can lead to True Blues coming across some unpopular opinions. It's not my intent to hurt feelings, it's just life.

Here's the remarks:
Mel Gibson wrote: Well you know, the institution, it was instituted by Christ. You know, but that doesn't mean that it can't be flawed. And there's a school of thought that says 'it isn't what it purports to be anymore, it's moved away from what it was intended to be and what it is'. There's a guy called bishop Vigano who says it's a counterfeit parallel church and it's running an entirely different religion.


He's describing the Catholic church originally being established by Christ but through apostasy, the institution just isn't what it claims to be anymore and is teaching an entirely different religion now than it used to (ask yourself how well the modern LDS institution follows the religion taught by the Book of Mormon, or the cosmic, deep religion taught by Joseph Smith). This literally sounds point for point, concept for concept, what a growing amount of BOOK OF MORMON BELIEVERS feel about the LDS institution. Eerie. Were the LDS institution and the Catholic institution both at one point something established by Christ that have since become salt that has lost its savor?

Remarks start at 3:13 in this video

As the video continues he discusses breaking down moments that give evidence of the Catholic church undergoing theological changing and odd leadership moves that signaled apostasy (and he uses that word) in his opinion.


I can't believe this video. I am impressed with Mel's understanding of spiritual truth:
Mel Gibson wrote: And this is in the next film I'm going to do. I'm going to try and tackle this question. That there are big realms. Spiritual realms. There's good. There's evil. And they are slugging it out. For the souls of mankind. And my question is, why are we even important? Little old, flawed humanity. Why are we important in that process? Where the big realms are slugging it out over us? And I think, there's bigger things at play here. And institutions that purport to touch on the divine are necessarily going to be affected by that slug fest that's going on between good and evil.
Joe wrote:And sometimes good gives up ground.
Mel wrote:Yeah, and maybe not on purpose.
The Catholic Church is and always was a counterfeit church. It's service is and was dark lacking the testimony of the Holy Spirit to promote it. I was an alter boy some sixty years ago by force and I hated it. At 13 years of age I said that's it I'm out of here and never went back. I never really said a prayer till I was forty. That simple prayer was God I need help as I was struggling in life. A day later there was a knock on my door and it was two Mormon missionaries. They said you called and I said no but come in anyway.i found out later my oldest daughter saw a commercial on television for the Church, she got the number and made a call for the missionaries to go to my house. God works through other people to answer our prayers. The missionaries taught me the plain and simple things of the Gospel of Christ and they gave me a book of Mormon to read to which I couldn't put down. I was a stubborn man but 9 months later I joined the true Church and never looked back. I know there are men in leadership positions that have and are making mistakes in the Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints but it is still Christ's Church. Don't run from it stay and let them know of their mistakes. Would Christ want you to leave or fight. He didn't runaway when his father's temple was be desecrated. He called them out and thru them out.

blitzinstripes
Posts: 2748

Re: Mel Gibson's remarks on Catholic faith mirror growing belief among BoM believers disenfranchised with LDS institutio

Post by blitzinstripes »

JuneBug12000 wrote: January 10th, 2025, 11:18 am This is not a new idea. In the early 1600s William Bradford and the Separatists (Pilgrims) were fighting the same corruption of religion.

Bradford described it as a tactic Satan has used throughout time.

When men take what God has revealed and and add to it "ceremonies" and "poperies" and make the gospel "a burden to men's souls."

The Separatist left England to practice the gospel as taught in the Bible.

They later left Lyden to save their children from the culture that led them away from their parents teachings as found in the Bible.

When they had decided to leave, they had two choices. One was reported as being beautiful and fertile and would afford them an easy life. The other was almost certain death.

He explains they chose almost certain death because I'd they went somewhere nice, others would follow and corrupt their children. God could help them endure hardship and protect them from certain death.

Even so, many died and there were some impossible choices places before them.

Near the end of the history, he speaks of how after all the hardship they prospered and even lamented, in their prosperity, that it forced them (the original settlers) to move farther apart. They kind of missed the early harder days when they were bound to each other for survival.

The part that relates to Mel Gibson's comments is in the very beginning of The History of Plymouth Plantation by William Bradford.

I've seen many of the same concerns about organized religion from as diverse a group of Christians as Amish, Baptists, Catholics, Mormons, Evangelicals, etc.

Everytime is see a news article that religion is in decline in America and abroad. I am not worried. In the past I would have thought it was people leaving God. Now I see so many who are leaving organized religion because they found God.
I agree. We've been attending a non denominational evangelical Christian church for over six months and we have never been happier, felt more loved, spiritually fed, closer to God than at any point in our lifetimes and we both grew up in the church. My father was a Bishop. My wife's grandfather was a stake president. We've shrugged off all the baggage that the church lays on us. Shady history. Questionable doctrines. Corporate atmosphere. This is a localized church who has no corporate executives sitting in a C suite calling the shots. All the offerings money is spent locally and in sending out some missionaries, supporting local charities, etc. And it's growing! My wife and I were talking today about how for the first time in our lives we weren't uncomfortable talking to others about our church. Inviting friends and coworkers to come to church. We love it. We look forward all week to it. I ponder the sermons all week. I'm more devoted to my prayers and scripture study. And overall I feel the Spirit more abundantly. ❤️

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Thinker
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Re: Mel Gibson's remarks on Catholic faith mirror growing belief among BoM believers disenfranchised with LDS institutio

Post by Thinker »

Niemand wrote: January 10th, 2025, 4:00 pm
Thinker wrote: January 10th, 2025, 12:36 pm My old Muslim roommate used to tease how much she loved Mel Gibson, so i couldn’t help but smile as I watched the clip. Then my analytical mind saw Mel as clinging to confirmation bias & a little nervous, subconsciously knowing it. He sees and understands how corrupt the Catholic Church has become and yet trusts their narratives.

Joe Rogan is a good example of being willing to explore an idea that someone else presents without agreeing if he doesn’t agree.
I'm not sure he does 'trust their narratives". He is not a member of the Church of Rome and never has been. He belongs to a Sedevacantist group.
Sedevacantist is a Catholic movement. He still believes some flawed Catholic dogmas.

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Niemand
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Re: Mel Gibson's remarks on Catholic faith mirror growing belief among BoM believers disenfranchised with LDS institutio

Post by Niemand »

Thinker wrote: January 12th, 2025, 9:19 am
Niemand wrote: January 10th, 2025, 4:00 pm
Thinker wrote: January 10th, 2025, 12:36 pm My old Muslim roommate used to tease how much she loved Mel Gibson, so i couldn’t help but smile as I watched the clip. Then my analytical mind saw Mel as clinging to confirmation bias & a little nervous, subconsciously knowing it. He sees and understands how corrupt the Catholic Church has become and yet trusts their narratives.

Joe Rogan is a good example of being willing to explore an idea that someone else presents without agreeing if he doesn’t agree.
I'm not sure he does 'trust their narratives". He is not a member of the Church of Rome and never has been. He belongs to a Sedevacantist group.
Sedevacantist is a Catholic movement. He still believes some flawed Catholic dogmas.
You'll notice I used the phrase "Church of Rome".

Mel Gibson is not a member of the Church of Rome although he has strong opinions on it. He also holds some beliefs that it doesn't.

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BKColt
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Re: Mel Gibson's remarks on Catholic faith mirror growing belief among BoM believers disenfranchised with LDS institutio

Post by BKColt »

...have looked & looked for a gathering that believes in God but not organized religious...
When I was younger and a member of the Southern Baptist Convention, I would say, "I don't believe in organized religion. That's why I'm a Baptist."

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BeNotDeceived
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mirror growing belief

Post by BeNotDeceived »

Bronco73idi wrote: January 10th, 2025, 4:37 pm Jesus Christ lived organized religion, why do we try to twist the truth?
Churches of March Miracles are Churches in the name of Christ.
Spoiler
Three March events at March8Miracle.org

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Silver Pie
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Re: Mel Gibson's remarks on Catholic faith mirror growing belief among BoM believers disenfranchised with LDS institutio

Post by Silver Pie »

Bronco73idi wrote: January 10th, 2025, 4:37 pm Jesus Christ lived organized religion, why do we try to twist the truth?
The organized religion hated him so much that they had him killed. I believe they also excommunicated him.

Bronco73idi
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Re: Mel Gibson's remarks on Catholic faith mirror growing belief among BoM believers disenfranchised with LDS institutio

Post by Bronco73idi »

Silver Pie wrote: January 12th, 2025, 8:18 pm
Bronco73idi wrote: January 10th, 2025, 4:37 pm Jesus Christ lived organized religion, why do we try to twist the truth?
The organized religion hated him so much that they had him killed. I believe they also excommunicated him.
They did, he still didn’t back away from his church and his people. Almost like the bridegroom didn’t divorce the brides. What did he say about the brides?

Similar to modern marriages, most men will die for their wives and most women will justify another woman killing her husband, funny how things are so similar…

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InfoWarrior82
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Re: Mel Gibson's remarks on Catholic faith mirror growing belief among BoM believers disenfranchised with LDS institutio

Post by InfoWarrior82 »

Sirocco wrote: January 10th, 2025, 9:04 am I think the LDS church should try to become what it was versus try and mould itself into the current year
Our leaders have placed the church in a corner. The are now fully combined with secret combinations through gradual incrementalism.

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Silver Pie
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Re: Mel Gibson's remarks on Catholic faith mirror growing belief among BoM believers disenfranchised with LDS institutio

Post by Silver Pie »

Bronco73idi wrote: January 13th, 2025, 1:32 am Similar to modern marriages, most men will die for their wives and most women will justify another woman killing her husband, funny how things are so similar…
Not in my experience, nor what I've observed among those I know.

My first spouse would rather throw me to the wolves than protect me; I doubt protection of anyone but himself would have occurred to him. My second spouse was a wimp. I felt like I was married to a woman. He would probably hide behind me.

No woman I know would justify another woman killing her husband. A friend's younger brother offered to have one of his friends (from when he was in prison) off my first husband. I was shocked at his offer and refused it.

So I don't know the women you know, but they sound like terrible people!

Bronco73idi
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Re: Mel Gibson's remarks on Catholic faith mirror growing belief among BoM believers disenfranchised with LDS institutio

Post by Bronco73idi »

Silver Pie wrote: January 14th, 2025, 2:37 pm
Bronco73idi wrote: January 13th, 2025, 1:32 am Similar to modern marriages, most men will die for their wives and most women will justify another woman killing her husband, funny how things are so similar…
Not in my experience, nor what I've observed among those I know.

My first spouse would rather throw me to the wolves than protect me; I doubt protection of anyone but himself would have occurred to him. My second spouse was a wimp. I felt like I was married to a woman. He would probably hide behind me.

No woman I know would justify another woman killing her husband. A friend's younger brother offered to have one of his friends (from when he was in prison) off my first husband. I was shocked at his offer and refused it.

So I don't know the women you know, but they sound like terrible people!
I am talking, generalizing, society in America.

This isn’t a new phenomenon

“ Results revealed that for every 100 men who killed their wives in the United States during 1976-85, about 75 women killed their husbands. Women committed a substantially larger proportion of spousal homicides in the United States than elsewhere. In fact the spousal sex ratio of killing (SROK) is more than twice that in the other Western countries.”

Bobbit
Burning bed


If a man looks like he might be angry and yelling at his woman partner in public, the public will step in and if the tables are flipped where the woman is yelling at her man partner, the public will laugh.

My mom was physically abused by my real father. When my uncle threatened to kill him I never saw him again. I was 3 and I didn’t know why I never saw him until 40 years later in life.

Isaiah 3
25 Thy men shall fall by the sword, and thy mighty in the war.

Not women.

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Niemand
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Re: Mel Gibson's remarks on Catholic faith mirror growing belief among BoM believers disenfranchised with LDS institutio

Post by Niemand »

Bronco73idi wrote: January 14th, 2025, 4:14 pm My mom was physically abused by my real father. When my uncle threatened to kill him I never saw him again. I was 3 and I didn’t know why I never saw him until 40 years later in life.
How do you feel about the whole temple sealing thing in regard to all this?

I remember mentioning to missionaries when they taught me this that many people have abusive relatives that they might not want to spend eternity with. They didn't really seem to get it.

My friend's granddaughter was involved with a man who has just gone down for sixteen years for raping and assaulting her. He previously did this to other women as it emerged after the trial.

AgeOfAquarius
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Re: Mel Gibson's remarks on Catholic faith mirror growing belief among BoM believers disenfranchised with LDS institutio

Post by AgeOfAquarius »

Niemand wrote: January 14th, 2025, 4:28 pm
Bronco73idi wrote: January 14th, 2025, 4:14 pm My mom was physically abused by my real father. When my uncle threatened to kill him I never saw him again. I was 3 and I didn’t know why I never saw him until 40 years later in life.
How do you feel about the whole temple sealing thing in regard to all this?

I remember mentioning to missionaries when they taught me this that many people have abusive relatives that they might not want to spend eternity with. They didn't really seem to get it.

My friend's granddaughter was involved with a man who has just gone down for sixteen years for raping and assaulting her. He previously did this to other women as it emerged after the trial.
I know you are not asking me directly but this is my view-
The church lost the Sealing Power when Joseph and Hyrum were murdered.
So basically the marriage sealing that will last into the Eternities is by the Holy Spirit of Promise. If those marriages do not reflect what God wants in a marriage, the Holy Spirit of Promise will not seal them. So if there is abuse, I highly doubt the Holy Spirit of Promise would seal the marriage.

Bronco73idi
Posts: 4297

Re: Mel Gibson's remarks on Catholic faith mirror growing belief among BoM believers disenfranchised with LDS institutio

Post by Bronco73idi »

Niemand wrote: January 14th, 2025, 4:28 pm
Bronco73idi wrote: January 14th, 2025, 4:14 pm My mom was physically abused by my real father. When my uncle threatened to kill him I never saw him again. I was 3 and I didn’t know why I never saw him until 40 years later in life.
How do you feel about the whole temple sealing thing in regard to all this?

I remember mentioning to missionaries when they taught me this that many people have abusive relatives that they might not want to spend eternity with. They didn't really seem to get it.

My friend's granddaughter was involved with a man who has just gone down for sixteen years for raping and assaulting her. He previously did this to other women as it emerged after the trial.
In my parents situation, I don’t think either can make it to the celestial kingdom in the highest glory without repentance in sackcloth.

My mom is mentally abusive and my dad was a drunk.

I cannot honestly say I would be a bigger man if I was drunk most the time and lived with her.

As for your example, again without repentance in sackcloth, the perpetrator is damned. If the perpetrator does repent then the one who doesn’t forgive is damned.

7x70=490 and 490 equals tamim

The red heifer needs to be tamim, what English speakers call perfect. But it isn’t perfect to a perfectionist, the red heifer can have one black or white hair and be tamim.

Ie they will remember, they will not let themselves ever be in the same position to be assaulted but if they forgive they will be tamim.

This is my opinion and I hope I answered your question.

It reminds me of the parable of the laborers, if they repent in the last hour, then they can be forgiven and the one laboring the whole day gets mad then they are damned.

Bronco73idi
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Re: Mel Gibson's remarks on Catholic faith mirror growing belief among BoM believers disenfranchised with LDS institutio

Post by Bronco73idi »

AgeOfAquarius wrote: January 14th, 2025, 4:49 pm
Niemand wrote: January 14th, 2025, 4:28 pm
Bronco73idi wrote: January 14th, 2025, 4:14 pm My mom was physically abused by my real father. When my uncle threatened to kill him I never saw him again. I was 3 and I didn’t know why I never saw him until 40 years later in life.
How do you feel about the whole temple sealing thing in regard to all this?

I remember mentioning to missionaries when they taught me this that many people have abusive relatives that they might not want to spend eternity with. They didn't really seem to get it.

My friend's granddaughter was involved with a man who has just gone down for sixteen years for raping and assaulting her. He previously did this to other women as it emerged after the trial.
I know you are not asking me directly but this is my view-
The church lost the Sealing Power when Joseph and Hyrum were murdered.
So basically the marriage sealing that will last into the Eternities is by the Holy Spirit of Promise. If those marriages do not reflect what God wants in a marriage, the Holy Spirit of Promise will not seal them. So if there is abuse, I highly doubt the Holy Spirit of Promise would seal the marriage.
I believe this message is true even when the smith brothers were alive. Are we not all a prophet? We have more the the Lord’s apostles when the lord was alive. The gift of the Holy Ghost.

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BuriedTartaria
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Re: Mel Gibson's remarks on Catholic faith mirror growing belief among BoM believers disenfranchised with LDS institutio

Post by BuriedTartaria »

Bronco73idi wrote: January 10th, 2025, 4:37 pm Jesus Christ lived organized religion, why do we try to twist the truth?
Does organized religion have to be institutionalized religion? Is there only one definition of organized religion? If Christ lived organized religion does that mean organized religion can't have truth and later apostatize from the truth?

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